Susan Quinn, Circle S Studio

Join us for Episode 14 of the Richmond Leadership Lab. In this episode, co-hosts Christian Mosier (BenX Consulting) and Taylor Quinn (Filmspire and Richmond Podcast Studio) engage in a powerful and insightful conversation with Susan Quinn, CEO of Circle S Studio. This episode is a must-watch for those interested in leadership, company culture, brand strategy, and building a business that lasts. Episode Highlights:Meet Susan Quinn:Discover Susan’s journey from an “accidental business owner” to leading Circle S Studio for over 26 years. Learn how a company of one evolved into a respected branding and strategy firm through strong partnerships and shared values. Building a Brand That Stands Out:Hear how Circle S Studio was formed and what the name represents — continuous collaboration, strategy, storytelling, and simplification. Susan shares how companies can move from just “showing up” to truly standing out. Core Values That Drive Growth:Susan unpacks the four foundational pillars every business needs: purpose, vision, mission, and core values. She explains why core values must be lived — not just written — and how clarity creates momentum. Leadership Through Economic Highs & Lows:From the 2008 financial meltdown to COVID-19, Susan reflects on navigating uncertainty, the importance of knowing your numbers, and why “hope is not a strategy.” A must-listen for CEOs facing growth, change, or economic headwinds. Pruning for Progress:Learn why strong leaders must regularly “prune” — letting go of tasks, systems, or even clients that no longer align — in order to create space for growth and strategic focus. AI, Strategy & The Future of Work:Susan shares how Circle S Studio is approaching artificial intelligence strategically, emphasizing smarter tools without sacrificing human authenticity. Don’t forget to subscribe, like, and share! Tune in for more conversations on leadership, growth, and building impactful organizations in Richmond and beyond. To learn more about Circle S Studio, visit:https://www.circlesstudio.comConnect with Susan here:https://www.linkedin.com/in/susanquinn01/Richmond Leadership Lab is Produced and Co-Hosted by:Taylor Quinn, CEO - Filmspire and Richmond Podcast Studiohttps://www.filmspirevideo.comhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/taylor-quinn-filmspire/Christian Mosier, President - BenXhttps://benxconsulting.comhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/christian-mosier/To learn more about RLL visit our site: https://www.richmondleadershiplab.comThis podcast was produced and recorded by Richmond Podcast Studio. Do you want to start a podcast but don't want to deal with the hassle of the tech? With Richmond Podcast Studio, you get your professional video podcast the same day you record. To learn more, visit https://www.richmondpodcaststudio.com

• 0:01Speaker 02

  Welcome to the Richmond Leadership Lab, featuring business and nonprofit leaders across Richmond, Virginia. Produced and hosted by FilmSpire and Ben X.

• 0:13Speaker 01

  And we're back for another episode of the Richmond Leadership Lab Season Two, Episode Two. Again, I'm your co-host Taylor Quinn with FilmSpire. We've been cooking up some something big,

• 0:25Speaker 02

  Something massive.

• 0:26Speaker 01

  something massive for us and for FilmSpire, which I'm not going to get into now yet, basically. We've got some fun things planned for this year for Richmond Leadership Lab.

• 0:35Speaker 02

  Do we have some really fun things?

• 0:37Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Um I'm talking to, of course, our co host Christian Moser with Ben X Consulting for all your employee benefit needs. Reach out to Ben X. And again, me with FilmSpire for all your video marketing needs and Richmond Podcast Studio. Don't forget if you're interested in starting a podcast studio, accelerating that. We have coaching services for how to grow your podcast, how to start a podcast in full recording services here at Richmond Podcast Studio. So but we're not here to talk about me. Uh but we're here. And uh we don't want no one wants to hear about me, basically. But we're here. This is season two.

• 1:11Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:11Speaker 01

  We had an awesome episode last month. And we're really excited for our guest today. We've got a great guest. She is the CEO of Circle Studio. She is Susan Quinn. She has been a pioneer in female leadership. She has been an agency pioneer in the marketing and agency world. She's a podcast host herself. Susan, thank you for coming onto the show.

• 1:39Speaker 00

  Well, thank you so much for having me.

• 1:41Speaker 01

  Great. I'm so happy you're here. I d I don't know if you ever get this. If you ever get this, then it is the biggest compliment to me. But I sometimes get are you are you related to Susan Quinn? No, I'm not. You probably never get are you related to Taylor Quinn? If you ever did, that would be the biggest compliment to tell us who I am.

• 1:56Speaker 00

  Somewhere along the line we're probably really

• 1:58Speaker 01

  Exactly. We're all just kin focused, my dad would say basically. Um

• 2:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, I called Taylor earlier and I was like, is there is there a relation here?

• 2:06Speaker 01

  no, no relation. No. But um thank you for joining us, Susan. We're really excited you're here. Um

• 2:13Speaker 02

  And we're so excited after 400 days of ice.

• 2:16Speaker 01

  yes.

• 2:17Speaker 02

  Here we are

• 2:18Speaker 01

  My gosh.

• 2:18Speaker 00

  and it's in the fifties, so

• 2:20Speaker 02

  in the 50s.

• 2:20Speaker 00

  we we're in for a very warm, nice conversation.

• 2:24Speaker 01

  Yes, I think so too. Yeah. Well let's just jump right in for those who've been listening to their show. We know we like to talk to our guests and learn a little bit about their story, and we'll talk a lot more about just leadership in general. Uh and things like that, which you know a lot about, Susan. So can you just tell us for us, um, for those who have um are meeting you for the first time, tell us kind of like who you are. Tell first tell us about who you are briefly about circle S, and then let's get into your background for a little bit. So give us the rundown.

• 2:51Speaker 00

  Well, I'm I'm probably what you would call an accidental business owner. I didn't really start out to oh my gosh, I want to be a CEO of a company, but that's that's what ended up happening to me. But I had the great opportunity 25 years ago, heading into 26 to merge my company of one. With a really strong creative team and Circle S studio was born. And, you know, it was one of those things when you spot talent and people that have the same values as you, you think, hmm, there there could be something pretty special. And I'm happy to report it's been a a great partnership and a great run. So

• 3:37Speaker 01

  That's great.

• 3:37Speaker 00

  that's that's the formation of Circle S. Um,

• 3:40Speaker 01

  And tell us about like kind of the elevator pitch for Circle S, if you will. Yeah.

• 3:45Speaker 00

  well. A lot of people will say what does Circle S studio mean?

• 3:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:49Speaker 00

  And it probably took us longer to name it than to decide do we want to do this together.

• 3:56Speaker 01

  People put so much weight into the name.

• 3:58Speaker 00

  Name

• 3:58Speaker 02

  The logo.

• 3:59Speaker 00

  it's it's you know, one of those things. But I I want to start there if I can, because circle was um it's like I love a circle, and it just for us it meant this continuous loop of getting better and collaboration and Studio, we weren't an agency. I felt like the talent on the creative side, you know, elicited like a fine arts studio. And so I wanted to give a nod to that. We wanted to give a nod to that. And then in the S part, it was it was really based on strategy. That

• 4:35Speaker 00

  there was so much I I spent because I started out on the marketing side with a whole lot of tactics. And I would always like, but what what are we doing strategically? But then there are other fun S's, you know, great storytelling and simplification. And so that the S just had a a life of its own. But that that was the Circle S studio component.

• 4:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:58Speaker 00

  Today we really focus on three things. The brand experience and an exceptional brand experience. And I'm sure every branding firm would say they do the same thing. But I think it's the flywheel of that creating an exceptional employee experience.

• 5:16Speaker 00

  You do those two things well. You can create an exceptional client experience. So we really spend a lot of time in those three areas. And that's where we see the momentum for companies. If you get those three things, two things right,

• 5:29Speaker 01

  Yeah,

• 5:29Speaker 00

  then the third will follow.

• 5:31Speaker 01

  that's great. That is awesome.

• 5:33Speaker 02

  And it's something too that can be, you know, easier said than done for a lot of companies as well. Because I feel like every company has some some uh you know a little bit of uh their own I guess quirkiness or their own um I guess factor to it.

• 5:48Speaker 00

  Well, I think sometimes we believe we're the first people to start a company. And the fact of it is there are a lot of people. So you you this is a wonderful way that we learn from each other and take take ideas and but still make it our own.

• 6:03Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 6:05Speaker 01

  So where where did you grow up? Kind of like how did you kind of get into marketing or you came from a finance world first? Is that correct?

• 6:14Speaker 00

  Accidentally.

• 6:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, accidentally. So yeah, kind of tell us how did you kind of get into kind of your background and getting into marketing and all that kind of stuff?

• 6:22Speaker 00

  So I grew up in Hampton, uh the the Tidewater area, but today Hampton Roads area. Um my dad was an attorney, and my mother was the CEO of a household. Um three brothers, and she she seemed to work a whole lot more than my dad, but uh she was a a great great leader for the household. I thought my dad's job looked really cool. So I was pre law and pretty sure I wanted to go back and practice law with my dad. And then one year I did one summer I did an internship. And this is not to disparage the legal profession. My dad was an amazing human being. But I came home and I said, Hey Dad,

• 7:05Speaker 00

  I want to talk about this internship. Like it is this what you really do every day? And he just smiled and he said, you know, it's yeah, it's not for the faint of heart, but if it's not speaking to you, then find something that is. And I think what was not speaking to me was just the culture. It was just, it was very serious and I guess the playfulness of me maybe a little irreverent. My writing was I like try and break the rules a little bit.

• 7:37Speaker 02

  Nothing wrong with that.

• 7:38Speaker 00

  My English teachers didn't love that. But uh and I say that uh with all fun

• 7:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:45Speaker 00

  to it, but uh somehow this path came my way and and I love it. I just I love creating, I love um being around. the the written word, the visual side of it. Um, and so it's it was the right path for me.

• 8:02Speaker 01

  Cool. That's great. And then I am really curious about like, yeah, how you mentioned you kind of stumbled into Starting and kind of you know getting into ownership things like that. Like what did that really look like? How did that kind of come about?

• 8:16Speaker 00

  These aren't really great stories. You know, I didn't come out with this, you know, at this age I want to do something.

• 8:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:23Speaker 00

  My daughter just turned 41. And 41 years ago, there weren't a lot of daycare and places that, you know, you would take your your child, didn't have family in town. And so I I gave notice and I can remember I was working in a bank marketing, Central Fidelity at the time. Uh great, great marketing department. I learned so much. And I remember telling them, I don't think I'm gonna come back and I don't feel right taking maternity leave. And they said, Well, actually, legally you have to do that. But I ended up uh leaving after maternity leave, and then they said, Well, would you consider doing some freelance work? And that was really the beginning of

• 9:06Speaker 00

  My little company of one, and my dad, of course, the attorney said, Well, we should incorporate this and you should be professional.

• 9:12Speaker 02

  Trademark.

• 9:13Speaker 00

  And uh

• 9:13Speaker 01

  Sure, Dad. Yeah.

• 9:14Speaker 00

  that was uh the beginning, and I did a lot still in uh community banking.

• 9:20Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. That's very funny. I had a very short stint in the banking industry as well.

• 9:25Speaker 02

  I did too.

• 9:26Speaker 00

  Not a bad place to start.

• 9:28Speaker 02

  No. I was a teller for like three months.

• 9:31Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 9:31Speaker 02

  I was like a traveling teller, meaning I would go to the different branches, right? Whoever needed help, you know, that week or that that those couple days.

• 9:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:38Speaker 00

  See, well, maybe all marketing people should start all companies. No, it is a great it's a great place to learn.

• 9:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. That's amazing. So, and then tell us about um I'm really curious because I feel like so many about like the merging. You mentioned the merging and bringing together to create circle S and and all that kinds of stuff. What did that look like? I feel like there's so many people that are like, oh, maybe we should do business together and like what that should look like. And

• 10:06Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 10:07Speaker 01

  Brian, we had Brian Forrester on last season, who you met maybe at my party last year, and he was kind of the same thing. Like they he was doing his agency for a while, and then he and another buddy were kind of doing the same thing. They said, We should do this together, basically. But I'm like, that is that like you say that, but there's so much that goes in behind the right fit,

• 10:24Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 10:25Speaker 01

  you know, alignment, um, you know, all that kind of stuff. So, what did that look like for you?

• 10:30Speaker 00

  So I mentioned I was doing work for Central Fidelity and when they were acquired by A big regional bank. It was Wakovia at the time.

• 10:42Speaker 00

  The work I had been doing went away. And but I did that for quite a few years, and it was a nice long run. So it was a little bit, all right, well, what's what are we gonna do next? And I worked closely with Mark Smith, who um unfortunately left this earth way too soon in his 60s.

• 11:03Speaker 01

  So tell me about like that process for like how that went because there is something I think to like you don't want to just jump in bed with someone almost, you know, and like get into business with someone. And like I think there's a lot that goes into the thinking about like, okay, we are merging work and sharing all this stuff together. So how did that conversation kind of look and come about?

• 11:21Speaker 00

  Well, to back up Mark Smith, who was an incredible designer. He would bring me in to do copy and project management. And then I would bring him in for the creative side. And we had so many projects working together that finally I just said, you know, why are we doing this separately? The power of us doing this together, if you can see a one plus one is three, then it probably is a good beginning. Um I would also say just if if you feel the the right match, you know. The the things that are important to you. So you know, I would call those core values, guiding principles. And it was a check.

• 12:05Speaker 01

  That's great.

• 12:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I feel like, especially when finding a partner like that, it is really about finding the one plus one equals three, what you said.

• 12:13Speaker 00

  Yeah,

• 12:14Speaker 02

  Right? Uh so you guys are working on some shared projects together. So you kind of had a little bit of a feel of like

• 12:28Speaker 00

  definitely.

• 12:28Speaker 02

  what this person was like, what they were about, the synergies that could exist.

• 12:33Speaker 00

  And I would recommend that for anyone.

• 12:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:35Speaker 00

  Don't don't get married at first. Yeah. Start that process of what is it really like to work with you? What is it like on a good day? What is it like on a bad day? What is it?

• 12:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm a firm believer in like Not only what you do, like the work your company does is important, but like how you do it and the way in which you work as a team is is as important, if not more, sometimes because you're right, that's what's gonna produce the great product at the end of the day.

• 13:01Speaker 00

  Absolutely.

• 13:02Speaker 01

  Is is all that. Um

• 13:04Speaker 02

  So you you joined I'm sorry, you joined together with Mark when was this?

• 13:09Speaker 00

  It was 26 years ago,

• 13:10Speaker 02

  26 years ago.

• 13:11Speaker 00

  1999,

• 13:13Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 13:14Speaker 00

  October 1999. And we brought in uh a junior partner, Michelle Davis, who's still part of Circle S. She's um Our chief creative officer and amazing talent. And it's kind of a funny story. I could just tell. She was like a missing piece for the whole component. Mark was great with big ideas. She was great with with ideas, but could do all the detail, dotting every I, crossing every T. And I remember telling my dad, Um, we're gonna create this company, Circle S Studio. And Mark's been in the business a long time, and I just met this lady. She's pregnant with her first child, and we're excited. He said

• 13:54Speaker 00

  Oh, okay. Good luck with that. And I wish my dad was here today to say we've just celebrated 26 years and she's been an amazing business partner.

• 14:03Speaker 02

  Wow. 26 years.

• 14:05Speaker 01

  crazy.

• 14:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:05Speaker 02

  Congratulations, first of all. That is

• 14:08Speaker 00

  Well

• 14:08Speaker 02

  I forgot what the stat is about five years and then 10 years, but 20

• 14:11Speaker 00

  fail.

• 14:12Speaker 02

  years.

• 14:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, most of them do.

• 14:14Speaker 02

  Exactly. Yeah, congratulations on that. And I I'm I'm really curious we'll dive into leadership and principles, you know, obviously in a little bit, but I'm really curious. I imagine the the company has has made, you know, has there's been many iterations of the company, I imagine, in in 26 years. How have you noticed? So when you started 26 years ago, there was a couple people, and obviously you guys have grown in in the last you know 25 years. Those first few years, were there different iterations of the company? Was kind of the vision the same? Or how talk to me through those first few years of the partnership and of the of the company relationship?

• 14:51Speaker 00

  Well, the first few years were really powerful because the economy was really strong.

• 14:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:56Speaker 00

  And we brought two companies together. We each had our own Clients and it was we were on a we were on the rising 25 within the first five, six years. And it I guess they still have that today. But we were we were growing and what happened is a company of one can't really get

• 15:17Speaker 00

  a bigger account, you know, but you create an agency, studio, and you can you can get other clients. So that that's what started to happen. And I think we were really focused on the the brand, the creating a better brand. And and we did quite well with that. My financial background was adding to the client list and we were doing great work for other companies. So I would say the beginning we were really clear. We had good uh advisors in the beginning, and so foundationally we were strong, and that has, I think, sustained us through the ups and downs that happen over the course of life, business life.

• 16:02Speaker 00

  Uh wherever wherever you look. I kind of think of it like the stock market. You got your up as long as you can kind of find that middle ground.

• 16:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:11Speaker 02

  So when you mentioned advisors, did you guys form some type of advisory board or did you just kind of just um I don't know have lunch with people or seek out counsel? Like when I started been axed three and a half years ago, one of the first things I realized was I don't know anything. And so uh especially about business, right? Like about running a running a company. And so um I I would just like sit down to for breakfast or lunch with anyone I thought that that either had a little bit of that experience or could help. Was it more of like a formal advisory board or or like an official 1099 relationship, or was it more of like a, hey, let's grab lunch, hey, let's

• 16:43Speaker 00

  Well, I I love the question, and I think that's the power of being able to grow a company is just that to find those that complement you and those that are at the same level as you. I mean, you know, I I see it as those who've experienced that have wisdom in areas that I have none. Um, I love learning from peers, and I also love those who are. Brand new starting out. So I see it in those three tiers. Did it a little accidentally at first? I love continuing ads. So I started at University of Richmond, they had a continuing ed. It was like a mini MBA.

• 17:20Speaker 00

  So that was part of the learning. But then joined Virginia Council of CEOs. Big shout out to Scott McRoberts and the great work that they do. That's a wonderful way that you can learn from others. But then it morphed into A group that's specific for agencies. So I think we do learn from others and finding what I would call our trusted advisors.

• 17:43Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 17:44Speaker 00

  And I believe that's the power of any company is an ecosystem that is rich

• 17:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:50Speaker 00

  and intentional. I have had an advisory board when the whole market crashed. If you you all may be too young to remember all of that, but uh it was definitely it um we survived. That's all I can say.

• 18:05Speaker 02

  Yeah. This

• 18:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, what's what's there to be said for I mean, being in business for 26 years now? You definitely talk about rises and falls. What what has that been like? Has that been um when we go through slow season or when I you know I Work for me often is feast and famine at times, and I'm like, I'm sometimes like the sky is falling. How are we gonna make it? You know, basically. But as

• 18:29Speaker 02

  is the best day of my life.

• 18:30Speaker 01

  the best area, yeah, it's bad. I tell people the highs are incredibly high, the lows are incredibly incredibly low. But um I've been doing this now ten years in April, and I feel like I'm finally getting to the point where it's like it's all gonna be okay. It all just like equal equals out. But like what wisdom do you feel like you've been able to glean from now doing this like 26 years? Like having more of like a you have definitely more. That you can look back on and reflect on. What's that been like for you?

• 18:56Speaker 00

  Well, first of all, congratulations on ten years.

• 18:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:58Speaker 00

  That is not insignificant. And I love that you now feel it's gonna be okay. And I think you have to have both sides of that.

• 19:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:08Speaker 00

  Oh my gosh, the sky's falling.

• 19:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:10Speaker 00

  Oh my gosh, I'm too busy. You're probably the seller doer, or at least that's the beginning of it. That

• 19:14Speaker 01

  Many times. Yeah.

• 19:15Speaker 00

  you know, if you're it's hard to do all of that. But um what was the question again?

• 19:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. Just what uh what what do you feel like wisdom or takeaways you've had now for being in business 26 years, particularly like in if things are slower, like what's your mentality now if like things don't seem to be going like stellar basically? What do you what were some things you tell yourself basically or reflect on?

• 19:37Speaker 00

  That we've always gotten through it. Yeah. Um

• 19:41Speaker 00

  I think the one thing that I keep telling myself is hope is not a strategy. And it is um you have to read the tea leaves, you have to be aware. So I I'll go back to the meltdown, you know, 2007, eight. I could feel it in two thousand seven, two thousand eight. I can't remember when Lehman Brothers crashed and I mean it was like a major financial crash. We did a lot in the financial industry.

• 20:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, true.

• 20:07Speaker 00

  And, you know, if you look at that period of time, I mean there were so many banks that that crashed. It was And the housing bubble was like a no-kidding.

• 20:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:17Speaker 00

  And I can remember thinking, well, it's going to be better next year. And we held on to, we had a really powerful team, and the top line was not supporting what we had operationally. And we did it year after year, hoping that it was going to get better. And I that's why I take away hope is not a strategy, that you have to right size for what you have right now. And I've got a three to six month period. I'm absolutely obsessed with analytics and a very robust dashboard of what it looks like

• 20:53Speaker 00

  in real time. And if you look at that with intention and people that can tell a story on it, don't just give me the numbers. Like what is what is it saying? And then you write size if you need to. You can always hire, but you know, you we can't control.

• 21:12Speaker 00

  A lot of the forces that are out there. And so you but keep your strategy. I I don't believe in okay, str strategy one this year. I'd I I'll have a long term and at least today, a three to five year vision,

• 21:26Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 21:26Speaker 00

  and then you adjust accordingly.

• 21:29Speaker 01

  Gotcha.

• 21:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, I like the part, especially around I mean, just having like hope is not the strategy, right? Because I feel like,

• 21:40Speaker 02

  you know, I I fell in the trap too when I started a company, right? Like it's gonna be great. And then it's like, well, then real things happen and and you know there there's difficulties and and there's stuff that that goes wrong. And uh I I mean I I I'm all for being optimistic, but it's like optimistically still need a strategy. If you're optimistic, you still need strategy.

• 22:00Speaker 00

  Well, it's really the foundation of everything, you know, the guiding principles of a company. If you don't have them, then you are you're literally flying in a pretty blind way.

• 22:12Speaker 02

  How do you think a company develops that? Like maybe a company that's three years in, five years in, even ten years in. How how how should should they revisit that often? How do they really kind of get those because I've I've heard you mention principles a couple of times. How do they get those guiding or start to get those guiding principles?

• 22:27Speaker 00

  So for me, they're four. It's your purpose. Your vision. So why you exist and where are you going? The mission is how how are you going to get there? And then your core value. So yeah, it's kind of like my four-leaf clover.

• 22:39Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 22:40Speaker 00

  Um, how do you create it? Well, you you start where where I think a lot of companies make a mistake is you, you know, everybody sits around, okay. Well, what gets us excited to get out of bed in the morning? You kind of write it down the vision. Oh, we want to be out there. Usually it's a financial vision. I mean, that the financials come if you have a vision of what what you're actually doing.

• 23:02Speaker 02

  Love that.

• 23:03Speaker 00

  On the mission side, it really gets into how you're going to do it. What's the special sauce of what you do? But for me, if I have to pick a favorite child of that, it's the core values. It's like the behaviors that are the non negotiables of who you are and how you're going to stand out. And the secret is if you know it and if you can recite it,

• 23:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:25Speaker 00

  and the core values, especially if everyone in your company can say what they are. Otherwise, they're in someone's head. And they really don't exist in a company. And the ones that I see growing the most, they are foundational and they are powerful. And that is I think that's the momentum of a company. If you don't have it, you must get it. And if you get them, you must live it. They can't be words, they have to be actions. They have to be a parent at every level.

• 23:53Speaker 01

  We'll be right back after this short message.

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• 24:41Speaker 02

  And I like the vision not being financial because when people talk about vision, it's normally always a revenue goal. Or maybe a profitability goal.

• 24:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:48Speaker 02

  Right? Or some type of like, you know, evida goal or or whatever it might be, but not tying it direct the vision directly to the the fi or not tying, you know, finances, I guess, directly to the vision. I I like how you said that.

• 25:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:01Speaker 02

  I think that's really smart. Because like you said earlier, there's only so much you can can control, right?

• 25:06Speaker 00

  I mean, you can say you want to be the leader in

• 25:08Speaker 02

  Sure. Yeah.

• 25:09Speaker 00

  your your area, the nation. Yeah, you know, it's Put put it out there, and with that comes financial components.

• 25:18Speaker 02

  If you hit these, this will happen. It's like a lever, right?

• 25:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 25:21Speaker 01

  So speaking of like the I think you're where you're getting at is like the overall culture, company culture and things like that. How do you guys at Circle Last find the right talent that fits that culture that fit? How what does that look like for you guys?

• 25:35Speaker 00

  When we really got very serious of those guiding principles, and and I repeat things a lot, but you know, it's we're not reinventing the wheel, but it's we got we used to have the meaning of circle S and there was a C and I I couldn't remember any of it, you know. It's come on. We we've got short attention spans. And so we just we brought it down to three things. I mean, number one, respect. And it is in order for others to give it, you have to be able to give it to others. So respect is really important for me personally. There have been a lot of times over my career where I didn't feel respected, you know, and

• 26:16Speaker 00

  but it didn't stop me. It really made me want to create environments where respect lived at the highest level.

• 26:22Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 26:23Speaker 00

  Collaboration, the circle, I mean, we are so much better together. And so we live that, you know. It's hard to do it by yourself, you know. It's it's really hard.

• 26:34Speaker 02

  Mm.

• 26:35Speaker 00

  Um drive is the other component. And it's you don't have to have this wild extrovert style, but that fire in the belly. It can be a quiet fire, but you know, you can just see the spark in someone's eye of what they love to do. And when we lead with that, we find people that that makes sense. By the same time, I believe language should attract and repel. Don't try to create something that you're not. If I say those things, or whoever's speaking on behalf of the company, if they're like, hmm, fire my belly, I don't want to fire my belly, well then you may not be good at circle less. It's really okay if you want to, you know, not so I think it's okay to own it

• 27:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:17Speaker 00

  and and to believe in it.

• 27:18Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 27:19Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 27:20Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 27:20Speaker 00

  When we did that at a stronger level, we we've done and listen, today it's ebb and flow of a lot of people coming and going, but that core group, they've been around a while.

• 27:30Speaker 02

  Yeah. Mm. I think that even extends to clients, right?

• 27:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 27:34Speaker 02

  Like even like the making sure you're on the same page or the values are similar or you guys are on the same path. I I would imagine, and correct me if I'm wrong, that even especially in your industry, right, when you're collaborating with a client, it's like if you guys are off kilter or if they're expecting something different or expectations aren't correct, that is really when things can go sideways. And so having those guiding principles, I would imagine, really help the team, but also help figure out who you're gonna work with from a client standpoint.

• 28:05Speaker 00

  That's beautifully said, yeah.

• 28:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:06Speaker 00

  When there is an alignment, you know, you start saying things and you find out they have similar core values, you're like, this this is gonna be a good match.

• 28:14Speaker 01

  Yes. One that I've liked that I've been stealing recently is actually our the pastor at our church, he said recently he's like, We've been saying this at City Church a lot, that clarity is kindness. So that's what I've been using a lot recently, and like had that up in a meeting today with actually with um Megan Freem with Abundant Life Partners who's on the show and we're working with her now and because we had a big interview. Uh you know the carpal. It's funny, we might we might actually be filming some of it, which is funny enough. So

• 28:40Speaker 02

  So

• 28:41Speaker 01

  yeah. But um I was like, there's just so much that can get lost in translation, so it's like let's just be clear, because clearness is kindness basically. So

• 28:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 28:50Speaker 01

  you know,

• 28:50Speaker 00

  I say it candor with care.

• 28:52Speaker 01

  yeah, there you go. You know, absolutely.

• 28:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 28:55Speaker 01

  Um one of the things I really respect about what you guys do at CircleS2 is some of the nonprofit stuff that you guys do. You guys have that kind of like that grant, is that what you guys still do and things like that?

• 29:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:08Speaker 01

  Tell us what what gave you guys tell us about Spur and what was the the spark or the inspiration behind that?

• 29:15Speaker 00

  Well, I'm gonna say this in the nicest way. You know, when you're in our business, everyone wants you to volunteer your time.

• 29:22Speaker 01

  Oh my gosh. Yeah.

• 29:23Speaker 00

  You know, they they they um we need a little copy here, we need a little whatever. And I felt like we were getting so many ask, and I I have a hard time sometimes of saying no. And it the thought was how do we create something where we can invite people in that, you know, tell us your story, and then we will donate, and we we donate $20,000 of our professional services. And what I love about it is so it's a bit of a grant,

• 29:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:56Speaker 00

  but it comes in and then members of our team, the leadership doesn't decide. I don't decide, it's the team. And I have them do it as a strategic exercise, like. Why would you choose this? You know, tell us about it. They come back, they interview the different groups, and then they're passionate about helping, you know, that nonprofit expand. So it's been it's a great way to, you know, there are other things that we do, but it just it took a lot of the one one offs

• 30:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:26Speaker 00

  into something more powerful. Because when you can do something

• 30:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:29Speaker 00

  more than just a little brochure here, but you know, really invest in them.

• 30:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:34Speaker 00

  It it seemed to give more power to

• 30:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. I like that.

• 30:38Speaker 02

  you built the system around it too.

• 30:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 30:40Speaker 02

  So I imagine there's a lot of like one offs on your part, right? The team's time, where it's like maybe a brochure here or something here. And it's those one offs, I feel like a lot of times that can really derail the the overall.

• 30:50Speaker 00

  We were just a little seed here. I wanted fertile ground and see something actually grow.

• 30:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:55Speaker 02

  Yeah. How long have you guys been doing that?

• 30:57Speaker 00

  We started it in twenty twenty.

• 30:59Speaker 02

  Nice.

• 31:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, when COVID hit. It was like, okay, you know, enough about ourselves. Let's give back to others. And it started Yeah.

• 31:05Speaker 01

  Yeah. I'm curious, how did what what was COVID like for you guys and you and your team and what was I mean talk about another

• 31:12Speaker 00

  Actually did quite well.

• 31:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, okay.

• 31:14Speaker 00

  You know, back to the meltdown and hope being a strategy. It was like we came out of the gate and said, Okay, we got this.

• 31:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, nice, yeah.

• 31:21Speaker 00

  I mean, I just looked at it as a silver lining. It's like I don't know what's getting ready to happen, but we We found new ways to do things. We were virtual within a few days, thought it would be a few weeks, you know, found out that was not quite the way. But we just monitored everything and um it was actually quite good. And then the PPP money came and it was great.

• 31:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:47Speaker 00

  But it's um

• 31:49Speaker 00

  I think when we went through the meltdown, thought, well, glad that's done. We'll never see something like that again. And I think what we know is don't know what's around the corner.

• 32:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:01Speaker 02

  No, yeah. Never. Do you find that COVID uh I'm sure it obviously impacted it? So let me rephrase that. How do you feel like COVID impacted the marketing business as a whole? Because from someone who's on I guess on the outside looking in, it's like if you have a pandemic that forces people to obviously, you know, isolate or or I almost feel like marketing becomes a little more important. I know probably not every company that that was the case, but how did you feel like COVID impacted the marketing world? Maybe not just you know Circle S, but the marketing world as a whole?

• 32:36Speaker 00

  You know, I think of it not so much as the marketing world, but I think it changed the world of how we see it from a working perspective. I think the the whole hybrid component, the genie came out of the bottle and it'll never go back. So I think we learn to work in different ways. And I think there are pros and cons to that, but you know, I was traveling in like a crazy woman. I was in a Airport all the time, and you know, we'd have to always go and present. And I think

• 33:07Speaker 02

  Oh visiting clients and stuff.

• 33:08Speaker 00

  yes, and I think COVID just we can do virtual.

• 33:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:13Speaker 00

  And it's an acceptable way to do it. So I I think that's a silver lining from that. From a marketing perspective, I felt horrible for the travel marketing people. They were really struggling, but we did a lot in engineering and construction, and their world was it wasn't impacted at all. So that's why we

• 33:32Speaker 01

  It was essential. Tipcomp.

• 33:33Speaker 00

  It was essential stuff. So we weren't

• 33:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:36Speaker 00

  hit as hard

• 33:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:38Speaker 00

  and and we did okay. But

• 33:41Speaker 00

  you know, I I see it more on the people side of it. And it maybe not a direct answer to your

• 33:46Speaker 02

  No, yeah. No, it makes a lot of sense.

• 33:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. I remember being a in it I we grew that year quite a bit actually, funny enough, because it was like so many people were like, Well, I'm gonna cancel this trade show and that thing, and they just reinvested in digital, really, you know, and less in person, more digital and things like that. And I was at the time being like, I'll be the one man band doing everything basically, you know. So it's like I wore a mask and we'd go and we'd I'd bring all my gear and stuff and I'd shoot it all myself and things like that. And then that was the year too that like all of the which I don't miss, which is like the virtual galas, the virtual fundraisers and things like that. And there was so much

• 34:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 34:26Speaker 01

  pre recorded content that needed to be done that we ended up shooting a lot of pre recorded content that would, you know, air on Zoom and things like that. So it was a wild time.

• 34:36Speaker 00

  Well, we were agile. You know, it's the wind is gonna shift back and forth and you can either get in a fetal position or it's like, Hey, it's here, let's figure out how to make it work. And

• 34:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:47Speaker 00

  That was the spirit of our team. And you know, we just we had one have still a client. They do a big national sales meeting and it goes all around the country and we were ready for it to be that big national in-person. And then it was pretty clear we're gonna be remote. And we just brought in strategic partners and we figured out. And this thing was broadcast nationally.

• 35:10Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 35:11Speaker 00

  And it we learned a thing or two.

• 35:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:14Speaker 00

  And

• 35:15Speaker 02

  Lure it's constant learning lessons, I would imagine.

• 35:18Speaker 01

  In your twenty-six years of running Circle S, is there a moment that like stands out that you feel like or like what's like a a lesson you learned the hard way? Something that was like, man, that was tough. And but I learned from this that I gleaned something really great from that experience. Is there anything that kind of sticks out for you? And then I want to know the flip side, just like something you're super proud of in the 26 years. But yeah, lessons learned from you know uh good and and good and challenging, yeah.

• 35:50Speaker 00

  well, I may have hinted at it with the whole

• 35:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:53Speaker 00

  financial meltdown

• 35:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:55Speaker 00

  with hope being. This strategy. Um,

• 36:00Speaker 00

  that was a real lesson learned of you know, don't

• 36:06Speaker 00

  waste capital

• 36:07Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 36:07Speaker 00

  on your hope that it's going to get better when economic forces were way beyond. I mean, we could have the best strategy on earth,

• 36:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:17Speaker 00

  but you know, we were being impacted by the economic component of a meltdown. So that was a big, big lesson learned that I've Taken from that day and it drives us. And I

• 36:35Speaker 00

  you know, it didn't kill us. Yes. But I think it did make us stronger.

• 36:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. Did you have to scale back or anything like that? Like how did that impact team and things like that?

• 36:43Speaker 00

  Towards the end, yes, we we did start laying off. We were I mean, we were really I if it had carried on another year, I'm not sure we would have survived, honestly. But then all of a sudden things started coming back and clients started coming back and we

• 37:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:03Speaker 00

  We got through that. So I mean I think that is, I mean, know your numbers, know when to fold 'em,

• 37:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:11Speaker 00

  know when to and I just call it right size. It doesn't mean you can't change it, but

• 37:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:17Speaker 00

  and doing it the right way. You know, it's never burn a bridge.

• 37:22Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 37:23Speaker 02

  Yeah. Sometimes you gotta fold a seven, too. There's just no, you know.

• 37:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 37:29Speaker 02

  Can't play with it.

• 37:30Speaker 00

  So you said the opposite side of that?

• 37:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, just what's a moment that stands out in twenty six years and you're like, I'm super proud of this, that we did that or accomplished this, or what you know, something that you you feel really proud of um in the past 26 years.

• 37:44Speaker 00

  I mean, I I'm gonna have to say the team

• 37:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:46Speaker 00

  of that that core team that has been with us for quite a while, and just the power of us. Believing in one another, empowering one another, and just what a pleasure it is to be with people that you respect and you do great work. I mean, I never ever in the back of my head think we can't do this or it's gonna be embarrassing. I know it's gonna be great.

• 38:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:14Speaker 00

  And that that's I'm really proud of that. I'm proud of the Circle S brand and what we stand for. Yeah.

• 38:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:22Speaker 00

  We're not perfect by by any means, but I we stand behind what we

• 38:28Speaker 00

  could have done better and we will own it.

• 38:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:31Speaker 00

  And

• 38:33Speaker 00

  you need to do that too.

• 38:34Speaker 01

  Totally. Yeah.

• 38:35Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 38:36Speaker 01

  Can you tell us sorry, go ahead. You had a question.

• 38:39Speaker 02

  No, it's uh it's very evident. Obviously, this this is the first time that we've ever met, but it's very evident like how like the conviction behind the the core values and the mission and the vision. And I think that's powerful, right? And I've I haven't talked to your employees, but I would imagine that they probably share, especially the core employees, a similar conviction to you as far as like here's our core values, here's what we believe, here's here's what we are as a company. And I think you know, 26 years and having that is the testament about like what you just said.

• 39:08Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 39:09Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 39:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:10Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 39:11Speaker 00

  Yeah. It's if you don't know what you stand for, then you know it's which

• 39:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:16Speaker 00

  way do you stand really

• 39:17Speaker 02

  No one and everyone.

• 39:18Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 39:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 39:19Speaker 02

  I've been there. Yeah.

• 39:22Speaker 00

  Well you know, but that's the learning process. It is. It's I I think it just creates a stronger fabric of where you will be

• 39:29Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 39:29Speaker 00

  down the road, you know? We don't come out saying, look, we're business owners, you know, you you learn along the way.

• 39:35Speaker 01

  Totally. It never stops.

• 39:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was it was funny last month, and I won't get into any details, but you know, we've been in business for three and a half years now, and last month was arguably, if not the hardest month in business. One of them, right? And looking back on it now that I have a little bit of of a breath, it's just like, yeah, there were some things that really sucked, but like the learning lessons experienced during that tough month, it's just like I almost feel like invaluable.

• 40:01Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 40:02Speaker 02

  Like, you know, yes, we we lost a little bit financially. Yes, we lost a little bit here and there. But like the learning lessons were like, I don't know. I just maybe it's me being optimistic, but I I really feel that that is that is where, you know, you have to take those scars sometimes. You have to experience those losses to to learn about what not to do and what to do.

• 40:25Speaker 00

  You said it well. I mean, it's those wounds that create wisdom. So you I don't know who said that. It wasn't me, but

• 40:31Speaker 02

  Right, Chinese proverb.

• 40:34Speaker 01

  Fortune cookie video.

• 40:35Speaker 00

  probably. But you know, I I love that mindset. It is it's not what happens to you, you know, how you react to it to what is happening to you. I you know, we'll sit in a management meeting and someone may express discontent over whatever, and somebody said this. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold the mirror up. First of all, did we communicate properly? You know, you it you have to start with yourself. And I say, do you hear what I hear? It's in my head.

• 41:07Speaker 01

  Right.

• 41:08Speaker 00

  I think it's clear, but have I communicated? Because more times than not, if there is one word that I think describes where most things fall down, it's communication. Totally. And we think we're doing it and we're not. So we just had word of a an account we didn't get, we should have gotten, and everyone's like, Yeah, well, they did this, and I was like, oh, timeout. So let's go back. Where did we miss? Where did we not build the right relationship? Could we have done something better? Because I think we learn from those things.

• 41:41Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 41:42Speaker 00

  And you you know, you don't do the debrief on every single thing, but pick the ones where you're going to do it better going forward.

• 41:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. Can you tell us a little bit about a little tangent on like um the podcast you host and things like that? Because I think there's a probably a lot of similar things we taught you talk about on your show and things like that. I saw you have Tom Gaynor coming on soon.

• 42:03Speaker 00

  I do.

• 42:03Speaker 01

  We work with the Markel group and Tom's

• 42:06Speaker 00

  Tom Scrub.

• 42:13Speaker 00

  Well, it came out of we published a book a couple years ago, uh, Does Your Business Show Up or Stand Out?

• 42:20Speaker 00

  And A lot of research around that. What are the top trades? Why do some companies last for 25, 75 years? Like what are they doing differently? And I'm a curious kind of person. And you know, it comes out as pretty basic stuff. They're they do the they do the little things well. And so it was around that. And then how do we create? I mean, we're in the experience world. You know, the information world is there, but people want an experience. So it's all around. How do we create an exceptional experience? And how do we learn from others? So the podcast came out of the book, you know, Better Experiences by Design and Bringing People In that We Can Learn F

• 43:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:02Speaker 00

  and creating a community like this where like minded people want to hang out with each other or learn from each other. And so it's been fun. We're in year three,

• 43:13Speaker 02

  Nice. Nice.

• 43:14Speaker 00

  just a little bit ahead of you there.

• 43:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:16Speaker 00

  Year one, we were quiet. I was like, ooh, I don't want to can I really do this? And will we embarrass? Will I embarrass Circle S and But it you know, it was okay. I just do one a month 'cause

• 43:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:28Speaker 00

  it's time consuming for the team.

• 43:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:32Speaker 02

  Put them on.

• 43:33Speaker 00

  But that's that's great. And this year we've got, you know, some very nice guests and what I love about it is the preparation for sure, 'cause I want the right people on there, but their background, learning from them, if they've written a book, I try and do a quick read of the book and It's like this constant. I mean, when I aggregate it at the end of the year of what we've heard, I can see how tidbits from them are impacting the way we're doing business. And I I mean, what's not to like about that? We're all just doing it a little bit better because the wisdom of someone else.

• 44:11Speaker 02

  Hmm. You said yeah, you said it very well. I feel like because you're officially, I guess, our 14th guest on the show, and I every single guest we've learned something. There hasn't been one guest. Well, there's been one. No. No, there really has not been one guest where where we had a conversation and we're like, oh yeah, I didn't really learn much. Every guest it's just been like because everyone does it a little bit differently, but but a lot of the the the common concepts are are very similar, which is cool.

• 44:44Speaker 01

  Um you can upload a YouTube video basically and somehow it just reads the whole transcript of of the video basically and then you can like converse with it or it builds a m a library if you keep adding more videos to it. And I thought about I need to go through all of our episodes and put that in and see

• 44:58Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 44:59Speaker 01

  and pull out all the lessons learned from every episode or see what crossover there is between certain guests and things like that because it is just a wealth of knowledge for the people that we fed.

• 45:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's a great idea. And now we can do it.

• 45:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. And now we can do it. Yeah, exactly.

• 45:11Speaker 02

  Five years ago we could have never we could have never done that.

• 45:14Speaker 01

  I know it's a wild world we live in. Um

• 45:18Speaker 02

  And some of the business lessons you can't learn from chat, unfortunately. Unfortunately.

• 45:23Speaker 00

  You can't. We have to have this human connection.

• 45:27Speaker 01

  I mean on that for a second, like has that been a have you seen that on the marketing side, like your clients or prospects been talking to you about AI or anything like that? What's that look like in in your old world?

• 45:39Speaker 00

  Absolutely.

• 45:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. The answer is yes.

• 45:41Speaker 00

  Yes. And um, hey, it's here and it's it should be a part of every company. And but you have to do it in a smart way and have the guidelines. And I I mean, I've got so many opinions on it. We could probably spend a whole nother episode on this. But um I remember, I don't know, maybe eight years ago, because I like to look at annual reports of companies that are doing well, and maybe even ten years ago, I could see that there were investments in artificial intelligence and different things. You know, well, I guess yeah, we do it, you know. Uh Amazon certainly has the algorithms doing all of that. So it was there.

• 46:27Speaker 00

  But we set up a little task force. Um, Tammy Berry from Circle S, who is just a great strategic brain. And I said, figure out what's going on in this. Do we want to jump in early on it? Well, it was the wild, wild west. And it still is the wild, wild west. But it was like, whoa, we are early adopters, but I could tell something big was coming. And then ChatGPT comes and it's like, whoa.

• 46:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:51Speaker 00

  That's all we can talk about.

• 46:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:53Speaker 00

  I um I think at the end of the day, you've got to find the tools that work for you. And we are spending AI is a top strategic part of Circle S this year. It's not our vision, but it is part of how do we do it smarter, better for ourselves, and ultimately for our clients. So that, I mean, we want to be able to share that news with them. We we want people to work smarter and better. So Tammy is going and interviewing everyone in our company, tools they're using, and how we can do it smarter.

• 47:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 47:30Speaker 00

  And then we're gonna continue to iterate on it because it's changing all the time.

• 47:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:36Speaker 00

  But at the end of the day, you've got to put your name on

• 47:38Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 47:39Speaker 00

  it and create whatever ecosystem around. And let's we gotta keep learning on that one together.

• 47:45Speaker 02

  Yeah. Because it's definitely not slowing down. I mean

• 47:50Speaker 01

  No.

• 47:50Speaker 02

  With all the data and everything, obviously chat is it's its its own thing, and I think m most of the United States probably uses it to some to a certain degree. But just like the information and the way it's learning and and you know what's uh so much has happened, I feel like, in the AI world in two years, right? And the speed of it. Like what's gonna happen in the next two years, three years.

• 48:12Speaker 00

  Crazy.

• 48:13Speaker 02

  Right. Exactly. We'll just be all be robots having this good conversation.

• 48:17Speaker 01

  It is wild. Yeah.

• 48:19Speaker 02

  I also think uh I think we've talked about this, but I also think that um as something increases. Uh uh it's like a lever as well. Something else increases, meaning that like the more, obviously with COVID and then even AI and the more digital things are, the more people I think crave human authenticity. And I think that like you were mentioning, obviously you were flying a lot. I've heard a lot of stories recently of companies and and um even us. Like we're we're mainly our client base is mainly in the state of Virginia, so we don't have to hop on a plane, but maybe driving two hours, right? We're we're starting to do that more often as as a lot of other people are because that has been missing a lot.

• 48:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 48:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:00Speaker 02

  In the last few years. And I think, you know, people talk about AI and all this stuff, but like it's going to change the way we work, but it's never going to change the human. Right. And people are always going to crave authenticity and and these conversations, right? Like I I get life from these conversations. And I don't really get life having a conversation with Chat GPT.

• 49:17Speaker 01

  No. No. Yeah. It's sometimes like that doesn't sound right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's it's crazy. Um Susan, what if you could go? This is I'm stealing your question.

• 49:29Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 49:30Speaker 01

  You want to ask me? Um if correct me if I'm wrong, so you correct me if I'm wrong, but if you could go back how many years would you say?

• 49:39Speaker 02

  I'd say start of the company. That's typically what

• 49:41Speaker 01

  Start of the company, if you could go back to Susan back then, what would you say to Susan back then, with all the knowledge you have now, basically? What would you say to her starting out then? Some piece of information, words of wisdom, anything like that.

• 49:56Speaker 02

  like if you had five minutes.

• 49:57Speaker 01

  You had five minutes.

• 49:57Speaker 02

  Susan from twenty six years ago.

• 49:59Speaker 00

  Assemble your trusted advisors in a powerful way.

• 50:05Speaker 00

  I mean, I don't think I appreciated the power of those who are ahead of me

• 50:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:11Speaker 00

  and learn from them, follow the leaders, take their wisdom. Um, I spend a lot of time with peers,

• 50:19Speaker 01

  Yeah,

• 50:20Speaker 00

  and but man, there's a lot of power of somebody who has been through it before.

• 50:24Speaker 02

  Oh yeah.

• 50:25Speaker 01

  yeah,

• 50:25Speaker 00

  So that would be

• 50:26Speaker 01

  totally.

• 50:26Speaker 00

  probably

• 50:28Speaker 01

  It's smart.

• 50:28Speaker 02

  I love it.

• 50:28Speaker 00

  share.

• 50:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:29Speaker 02

  How do you feel like you balance when you're talking about peers and stuff, and you're talking about maybe looking at the business or working on the business at your role today, and I'm sure it's changed, but today, because we have a lot of CEOs and COOs, you know, who listen to this podcast? How do you balance the execution of what needs to get done, right? Or the day to day, so called, with like the strategic planning and long term thinking and on the business items that obviously, as a CEO, are part of your job description.

• 51:00Speaker 00

  I follow a racy model. What are you responsible, accountable? Am I being consulted or or informed? And that should change every year. So I'm really clear. The hard thing is I love all of it, but I should be pruning something every year,

• 51:19Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 51:20Speaker 00

  which means it's going to someone else and they're doing it most of the times way better. Um and empowering them. So you have to prune a fair amount of this stuff to the point, it's kind of like being a parent. At some point, it's like, well, you've worked yourself out of a job, but it is um, you know, and my job has changed over twenty six years. So

• 51:43Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 51:43Speaker 00

  It is

• 51:45Speaker 00

  out of the day-to-day. And when you get out of the weeds and move further up of at that higher level, I I think there's growth there for the CEO. I mean, if it's just one person, you have to stay you've got to either have a team doing it. Someone's got to run and operationally the company, but it is there are a few things that I

• 52:06Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 52:06Speaker 00

  want to keep doing. I I love strategy. I love staying curious. I love

• 52:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:11Speaker 00

  research and Synthesizing what's coming next. And

• 52:17Speaker 00

  but growing my leaders right now is what's pretty exciting.

• 52:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:20Speaker 01

  That's awesome.

• 52:20Speaker 02

  I like that. Like a prune list almost.

• 52:23Speaker 00

  Oh yeah.

• 52:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:24Speaker 00

  I mean the garden doesn't grow if you don't go in and prune it. Right.

• 52:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:28Speaker 02

  There's a good maybe you know this book. I was listening to a podcast of another leader. Um not as good of as a podcast as ours, but I do or Susan's. Um but there's a book on that written by a doctor, and I'm blanket on the name. But it talks about like pruning and how important that that is. Um and I'm I I can't remember the the name of the book, but um I I imagine you guys probably do that in all sectors, right? Like obviously you do it with your own task, but I imagine there's maybe clients that aren't a good fit or systems that aren't a good fit.

• 52:59Speaker 00

  And that's okay.

• 53:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:01Speaker 00

  That's okay. You know, I I can simplify things that I've it's my strength and maybe a weakness. Sometimes I can simplify too much. But I love complexity and I love

• 53:15Speaker 00

  giving It's almost like a big jigsaw puzzle. And you come in and it's a lot of times it's not broken in these bigger companies, but they've added on and added on and merged, and it's all of a sudden it's like, wow, you know, what what's that?

• 53:30Speaker 00

  And it like throw it on the the table and it's like, okay, let's get the edges. What's the the border for this company? And then when you start to piece it together, that to me is like really, really fun to going in and figuring that out. But I think if you don't take the time to step back, what what do we need to keep doing?

• 53:51Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 53:51Speaker 00

  Because it's foundationally there. All right. So this is where we're going. What do we need to start doing? But the best is what do you need to prune? And I think companies forget

• 54:03Speaker 02

  The stop.

• 54:03Speaker 00

  to stop. And and that's where complications come in. And that simplification is a real secret to longevity of companies.

• 54:15Speaker 02

  That was awesome.

• 54:18Speaker 01

  That that's a clip right there.

• 54:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 54:20Speaker 02

  Well, even at Bin X, we we just went through our first, I would say, pruning season and and it was uh eye opening to say the least. Right? Of a various of you know different um I won't get into the details, but but a couple different things that were that were, you know, pruned. And it it was definitely interesting. Um I've never in my life until probably Q three of last year ever thought about what I should stop doing. Right. Normally it's always been like, okay, this is working, do more of this and also add this or do this. And

• 54:51Speaker 01

  Right. Yeah.

• 54:51Speaker 02

  obviously some of that comes with, you know, teams, some of that comes with different things. But um I thought that was, at least for me, was fascinating. Like, what do we stop? Like, what are what am I doing, or what's something my team's doing that just makes no sense? Or just or you know, something that should just be cut.

• 55:06Speaker 00

  Or for companies that say, well, we've always done it that way and we're going to do it this way. It's like, ooh, I don't know if I'm going to get along with this group.

• 55:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:12Speaker 00

  Because, you know, change

• 55:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:15Speaker 00

  is a very fearful thing to some. I love change.

• 55:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:20Speaker 00

  I embrace it. Uh you know, I don't want to do a million things every day that scare me, but you know, a little bit of change is good.

• 55:28Speaker 02

  Yeah. Or change for no reason, right? The right change.

• 55:30Speaker 00

  I have a rationale.

• 55:31Speaker 02

  Absolutely. Yeah.

• 55:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 55:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:33Speaker 02

  Uh one of the things I want to ask you, because uh it's perfect timing. What did you think about the Super Bowl commercials? Do you pay attention to Super Bowl commercials?

• 55:42Speaker 00

  Um

• 55:44Speaker 00

  one of my favorites, Super Bowl.

• 55:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:46Speaker 00

  Um, I I did think there was a wholesomeness to a lot of them. I think maybe it's just a sign of the times. We just were seeking. A little more peacefulness.

• 55:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:00Speaker 00

  For the Super Bowl lads. I think we should all just take a big chill pill

• 56:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:06Speaker 00

  and enjoy the beauty of the game.

• 56:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:14Speaker 00

  I um

• 56:17Speaker 00

  I yeah, I have too many opinions. We can move to the next question.

• 56:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:21Speaker 01

  So it's some fun questions.

• 56:22Speaker 02

  Yeah. Let's do some fun. Or

• 56:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, kind of wrapping up. We ask everyone this old time, Richmond, what's your go to restaurant?

• 56:31Speaker 00

  Oh my go-to restaurant.

• 56:32Speaker 02

  a couple. You don't have to signal. A couple you enjoy, you know.

• 56:35Speaker 00

  Well I'm gonna say Osaka because I love sushi and I can't make sushi.

• 56:40Speaker 02

  Saka's so good.

• 56:41Speaker 00

  I love them and I've got family in town. I mean, even the two and a half year old little Carrington is we go to have sushi. And I gotta tell a story there. I was with with them and he thought the wasawi was an avocado. And the uh

• 57:02Speaker 00

  we were sputtering when

• 57:04Speaker 01

  As expected.

• 57:05Speaker 00

  when when we realized, but no, that that's a go-to. Uh I love small. You know, those that are doing it themselves, I I love those small restaurants to support. I guess one that comes to mind is Amuse at VMFA.

• 57:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:21Speaker 00

  I just I always get inspired there. You know, it's this beautiful place in our backyard.

• 57:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:29Speaker 00

  And you go in, it's just the magic of it and the art. And then if you've seen an exhibition, they usually have a little theme for what you eat. So I don't know. That's a that's a fun place.

• 57:43Speaker 01

  It used to be when I was younger the hap best happy hour in Richmond to go to.

• 57:49Speaker 00

  Oh yeah.

• 57:49Speaker 01

  It would be like

• 57:50Speaker 02

  I think COVID stopped

• 57:52Speaker 01

  I think it really killed them, but it would be like hundreds of people out on the lawn. And it was so cheap, basically. And it was just it was

• 58:00Speaker 00

  We are so lucky to have them in our body.

• 58:02Speaker 02

  really awful.

• 58:02Speaker 01

  we are. It is it is amazing. Um if you weren't the CEO of Circle S Studio, what would you be doing?

• 58:14Speaker 00

  You know,

• 58:16Speaker 00

  they say if you ask a good question, there's a long pause. Um,

• 58:23Speaker 00

  you know, I think

• 58:25Speaker 00

  very similar to what I'm doing,

• 58:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:27Speaker 00

  just maybe in a simpler way. I whatever the next chapter is for me, I I want to continue to help others lead better, um, empower people, giving them a voice. And that that's what kind of is a fire in my belly, just to see. I mean when I was growing up you didn't have mentors, you didn't have all these executive coaches and I I think it's a really good thing that we can learn from each other. We should never stop learning. So there will be some aspect of continuing ed and I'm growing and they're growing. So that whatever that chapter is.

• 59:09Speaker 02

  Yeah. I love that.

• 59:10Speaker 01

  Good question. Good answer. Yeah.

• 59:12Speaker 02

  Well we're gonna the way we love to wrap up the show And is w around nonprofits. So kind of going to throw it back to nonprofits. Uh, as a thank you, and seriously, thank you. This has been such a great conversation, and and I think a lot of nuggets and and just a lot of wisdom. And and we've really enjoyed having you on the podcast as a token uh essentially of our gratitude. We like to don give a small donation to whatever nonprofit that that you support or that you want to support um today, and then obviously shout them out on the show, and then we'll give obviously a small donation as a thank you for for being here.

• 59:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:47Speaker 00

  Well, we mentioned VMFA. I would I would send it over there. They're getting ready to expand their Incredible campus and let's continue to make them the gym that they are. So I would I don't work with them directly, but I'm so inspired. I think they do it well.

• 1:00:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:04Speaker 00

  And they are let's just make sure they stay a gym.

• 1:00:08Speaker 01

  Totally correct.

• 1:00:09Speaker 02

  Love that.

• 1:00:09Speaker 01

  Great choice. I love that.

• 1:00:11Speaker 02

  And we have to go to the happy hour.

• 1:00:12Speaker 01

  I have to do that.

• 1:00:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:00:14Speaker 01

  I have to do it. When this weather comes back, let's keep it up.

• 1:00:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. Um, Susan, how can people get in touch with you? And Circle asks, what's the best way for people to kind of just be engaged with you?

• 1:00:25Speaker 00

  Well, you can find me on LinkedIn. Um if you go to our website, you can click on my name and it's got more information on there. I am pretty visible and just pick up the phone, call, and I I love conversations, so I hope to hear from people.

• 1:00:44Speaker 01

  Great.

• 1:00:45Speaker 02

  And what's your podcast name? Is it on the website?

• 1:00:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, better experiences by design and once a month. And I've got John Asbury from Atlantic Union. He'll be coming up next week. Had a wonderful conversation with him.

• 1:00:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:58Speaker 00

  Fabulous leader.

• 1:00:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:00Speaker 00

  And yeah, mentioned Tom Gaynor from Markel. He's coming up soon. And I've got six C CEOs this year. So

• 1:01:07Speaker 02

  Nice.

• 1:01:08Speaker 01

  That's awesome. Well, thank you, Susan, for coming on. And you were on my list for when we were brainstorming earlier this year. It's like, who do we have? Like, Susan Quinn obviously needs to come on. So thank you for coming on, and um, this has been an awesome conversation. So thank you.

• 1:01:22Speaker 00

  honored to be here. Thank you so much.

• 1:01:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:24Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:01:25Speaker 01

  Thanks for watching guys. Tune in next time.