Panic or No Panic?

Andreas Steno Larsen and Mikkel Rosenvold are back to break down Red Friday and whether the market reaction to the latest jobs report was justified. They unpack what the data is really saying about growth, labor markets, liquidity, and the path for risk assets heading into summer. Today’s sponsor is Plus500 US. Take your trading to the next level with cross-market contracts, from precious metals to key indices, and more. Whether you’re a seasoned trader in the Futures arena or brand new, Plus500’s user-friendly trading platform offers you the advanced tools, market insights, and quick execution you’ve been looking for. Get started with Plus500 for as little as $100 at https://us.plus500.com. Trading in futures involves the risk of loss. Let Monarch do your financial 'spring cleaning' for you! Use code REALVISION at Monarch.com to get your first year half off at just $50. 🔥 Get 𝗙𝗥𝗘𝗘 𝗔𝗖𝗖𝗘𝗦𝗦 to Real Vision https://rvtv.io/3YOZZUe Timestamps: 00:00 - Monarch Ad 01:35 - Macro Mondays: Red Friday, Jobs Shock, and Middle East Risk 03:15 - Real Vision Updates, Alpha Access, and This Week’s Schedule 05:40 - What Actually Caused Friday’s Market Selloff? 07:21 - Nasdaq Damage, CTA Flows, and Why the Straight-Line Rally Is Over 09:45 - Was Friday a VaR Shock and What Happens Next? 12:06 - The Jobs Report, World Cup Hiring, and Why Payrolls Beat Expectations 14:07 - Kevin Warsh, the Fed, and Why Rate Cuts Just Got Harder 17:38 - SpaceX IPO, Big Tech Equity Raises, and the Liquidity Squeeze 22:01 - The One Chart to Watch: AI Token Pricing and the Data Center Trade 24:37 - Iran, Israel, and Why Markets Still Aren’t Panicking 27:24 - Oil, Fertilizer, and Why the Hormuz Crisis Trade Keeps Fading Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Sometimes it may be good, sometimes it may be shit.

• 0:22Speaker 01

  Hello out there, welcome to Real Vision, welcome to Macro Mondays. My name is Mikel Usmuel, I'm your host as usual and as usual I'm joined by you Andreas, welcome to the show.

• 0:33Speaker 02

  Thanks Mikel. You know Mikel, I'm in a very good mood today despite what happened on Friday because yesterday we had the most important election of the year, sorry to the Americans tuning in here, but Florentino Perez was re-elected as the president in Real Madrid, which basically means that we'll have Jose Mourinho back in charge of Real Madrid from the next season and onwards, and it will be absolute theatre. I'm, you know, awaiting this as a kid just ahead of the Christmas Eve, so I mean, as a martedista, I'm, yeah, I'm very, very upbeat today, I have to say that.

• 1:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm, I have a very soft spot for Jose, I'm a bit more sceptical about this endeavour, but let's see, let's see how it happens, they have the material and just, we haven't talked too much about the World Cup, it's unlike us, but it's, it doesn't get the hype it deserves, maybe in our neck of the woods, both, first of all because we're not in it, second of all because it's going to be happening during the night, so we're, we're spoilt as Europeans that most of these events, in soccer anyway, take place during our evenings, not this time around, but are you stoked for the World Cup Andreas, more than I am maybe?

• 1:40Speaker 02

  No, no, but we actually do get a chance to talk about the World Cup today because of the labour market report on Friday.

• 1:48Speaker 01

  That's a good plug, that's a good plug, yeah, that is what I had in mind, so absolutely Andreas. We have a great show for you out there today, been looking forward to this, we had obviously a bloody, bloody Friday, so we're going to try and cover, do we panic yet or don't we panic, what's the reaction in markets warranted? Try and dive a little bit into the job market report and then Andreas, we have to talk a little bit about Iran and and Israel again as things are heating up, or have been heating up over the weekend, things moving very, very fast down there, so lots of stuff to talk about and digest.

• 2:21Speaker 01

  Before we get started, just a few reminders. If you're subscribed to Real Vision's Alpha Cheer or above, you can tune into Raul and Julien covering what they see in markets. It's their live show, it's at 11:00 a.m. Eastern, so in 55 minutes essentially. You can join that, and if you're not a subscriber, you have time to subscribe after our show and before theirs begins. So it's just a matter of hopping into realvision.com and joining that to see Raul and Julien pick apart markets and listen to what they have to say.

• 2:54Speaker 01

  Of course, to complement that, we have our usual publications address. We're a little bit light the coming two weeks because I'm headed on vacation. I'm still going to be doing Macro Mondays, but I'm going to be taking a bit of a vacation from the drill unless something major happens, which it probably will in geopolitics. But fear not, we still have the usual standard signals, flagship report every Monday, and then our Friday portfolio update every Friday. So lots of good stuff to look out for if you are a Real Vision subscriber. And then remember, as we also saw in the intro video, we're trying to find the soft spot between five seconds of the intro song in the full version. So let us know what you think about that. Our producers are working very, very hard to find the soft spot there.

• 3:35Speaker 01

  But as the song always goes, remember that our trade recommendation and ideas might be...

• 3:40Speaker 00

  Summertime is maybe good, summertime is maybe shit.

• 3:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, Gattuso not going to the World Cup either, Andreas. Sadly, I have to say. Okay, Andreas, let's get on with it. Red Friday, I've labeled it here. What on earth happened?

• 3:56Speaker 02

  You know, we had a slightly nasty price action already during the Asian session. We had some hiccups in the semiconductor stocks in South Korea. We'd also have some moves in the Japanese yen, etc. But what really triggered it was basically the job report, early morning US hours, right? And I was planning on a pretty casual afternoon, to be honest, because all of our indicators basically suggested that the labor market was doing better than feared. And you know, I probably had one of the most aggressive forecasts for the non-farm payrolls of any forecaster. So I had expectations, high expectations of a decent job report,

• 4:42Speaker 02

  among other things due to the World Cup effect. We'll get back to that in a second. But I didn't really plan on the response to that job report because...

• 4:54Speaker 02

  Essentially, you know, one thing was that we got a good report for the last month, but we also got very substantial upwards revisions to the last one. And it has basically punctured this whole idea that the labor market is weak. And that AI, you know, is taking all of the jobs and all of that for now, right? So, so in that sense, it, it kind of killed the last narrative that Kevin Warsh could use as his excuse to stay very soft on rates, right? So I think what happened in a matter of minutes was basically that it got crystal clear to everyone that Kevin Warsh is cornered. I mean, he cannot show up in June and say, well, given our mandates, we need to have soft rates.

• 5:38Speaker 02

  Because inflation is running harder than anticipated and jobs are created at a faster pace than that they have anticipated, right? So from a vanilla, you know, bureaucratic perspective, given the two mandates that they have, he'll struggle to find an excuse now. I'll get back to what he's likely going to say in June here in a second. But if we get the Nasdaq chart on, on live here, Mikel, from page five, I just wanted to highlight how bad it was, you know, in, in, in just a slightly longer context than just Friday last week. I mean, it's one of the worst Fridays that we've seen. You know, it's up there, probably top 20 or something like that historically. But, you know, we've basically just dialed back Nasdaq to where it was, say, mid to, to

• 6:23Speaker 02

  late May. I mean, we did roll back a part of that massive rally towards the end of the month. But we also found the support roughly where we should, as you can see, around those low levels from the month of May. So we rebound pretty aggressively as, as we speak here. Nasdaq is up, I'd say, one and a half percent, something like that, between friends here.

• 6:47Speaker 02

  If this bottom that we saw mid-May holds here, I think we're still in an uptrend. But having said that, some of these momentum players, not least the CTAs, that typically follow the momentum factor in either direction, very mechanically, they'll likely struggle to buy from here. So we'll have a more two-sided market compared to what we have had in April and May. So this, you know, straight line up in risk assets, it's over. It's not going to happen after this because it's a very technical change of the market structure now that the CTAs cannot buy just because of momentum. And therefore, I think we'll have

• 7:32Speaker 02

  a more selective market for the rest of the month. Easy to say now that this happened, but that's very mechanically what happens. I don't think the cycle is over, but we obviously need to remain vigilant here.

• 7:45Speaker 01

  You tweeted a bit about this on Friday, that we have to see if this develops into a VAS shock. It also goes to what you're saying. Let's just try and explain that. For some of our viewers, this might be obvious, but what is a VAS shock and how do we know if we get there?

• 8:01Speaker 02

  So in simple terms, which also held true when I ran a hedge fund, you do have a risk-weighted objective, basically, from an investor's standpoint, meaning that you can only run X percent of risk in your book. So before Friday, that risk measured by a set of market standards, such as implied volatility, you know, implied fluctuations going forward, and even realized volatility, you know, those measures were very low, meaning that you can add more to your no-show when you're running a portfolio with A risk that is accepted within the limits that you've promised your investors.

• 8:45Speaker 02

  After what happened on Friday, some of these funds will have to dial back on their risk-taking just to comply with these risk measures, since they've probably breached them now that the implied fluctuations are larger. So this is another mechanical thing that happens when you go from a very low volatile environment to something that's more shaky. And it remains to be seen how severe this gets, but we will certainly have some of these levered players on the short side of the trade through June as a consequence of this, simply because they're forced to. And it goes both for these momentum players and these funds that run risk with a clear sort of risk-weighted mandate in mind, depending on the volatility that we see in markets.

• 9:29Speaker 02

  So those are the two factors that I'm worried about from a technical standpoint, but it doesn't exclude that a lot of fundamental players will use this as an opportunity to buy the dip, right? And I ultimately think that will be mostly guided by the spot pricing of tokens and the spot pricing of hardware, right? The two exact trends that have led this rally throughout the year. And for now, we can conclude on the June and forward outlook in a second, because I also want to touch upon the details on the labor market in just a minute, Miguel. But for now, I don't think we do have any evidence at all of these things rolling over. So I see this more as an opportunity to buy, for example, memory stocks than to sell them.

• 10:13Speaker 01

  That's great to hear, Andres. Let's unwrap the job report a little bit more and gauge whether this market reaction was warranted. We have touched upon it. We have this chart. I hope it's decently visible for people, but essentially the blue dot is the April report, the revised April report, and the green dots, the slightly smaller dots, are the May report. So actually, the job number for May is a little bit lower than in April, but still much higher than the most anticipated, Andres.

• 10:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, this is not a chart that is particularly colorblind friendly.

• 10:45Speaker 02

  But having said that, a few things to note here, you know, we're running at, say, 175K jobs a month or something like that, which is basically 175K jobs more than what you expected coming into the year, more or less, right? I think the consensus was that if the job market could just flatline, that would be more than enough, since the tide had turned on migration flows and all of that, right? And this is, this is a job creation that goes far beyond what the economy needs now, given that the migration numbers are so low. Let's just remind people of that, because had this been under Biden, where the border was essentially open, this wouldn't have been a big number, but it's a big number under Trump.

• 11:26Speaker 02

  And therefore, the unemployment rate is likely going to drop if we continue at, say, 100, 275K a month. Having said that, the big thing to notice in, in, in May is the leisure and hospitality part of it. Because if you, if you look at it, it's basically the part of the jobs report that was better than, than in April. Obviously, very related to the World Cup, that is the first match in three days in the US. I think so, yeah. Yeah, so on the 11th, right? So, you know, of course, that is starting to impact the leisure and hospitality hiring,

• 12:06Speaker 02

  as these people have liked to come on the payroll to some extent already to prepare for what's upcoming, right? It will probably be even more impacted through June. But, but I, I think you can at least account the World Cup effect for, you know, maybe 50K jobs, something like that this month. Maybe in the government bucket as well. Yes, absolutely. I wouldn't rule that fully out either. So it looks better than it is, and you should expect some of this to be reversed after the World Cup.

• 12:39Speaker 02

  But it still does not sort of rule out that Kevin Warsh is under a lot of pressure ahead of his first press conference this month, right? And

• 12:51Speaker 02

  If I were him, you know, he's been given a pretty clear mandate to give, to keep interest rates low, at the very least, right? And I'm of the view that he probably even had to, you know, at least behind closed doors, promised Trump that he would work very much, you know, in favor of the administration's policy on this point. And therefore, I think he will very reluctantly have to sort of sound the alarm a little bit on inflation and jobs growth here. And therefore, Miguel, it, I think the simple way of explaining this is that, you know, last time they met, they had an easing bias, the Federal Reserve.

• 13:34Speaker 02

  It is 100% ruled out that he can continue with an easing bias here in June, in my opinion. But the best case is probably that he can convince the committee to say, okay, we can move in either direction now, so they keep the sequential progress towards interest rate hikes in place. And that allows him some leeway, in my opinion, because if they agree upon a neutral statement, say, we can go in either direction, he can, of course, put emphasis on going lower. So at least for now, I actually think he's got a bit of leeway left, and I think it's very underappreciated that he's going to use that leeway. Because, again, to my understanding, he is, as far as, you know, he is as close to a

• 14:19Speaker 02

  puppet as we get in Western central banking history. And therefore, and I mean, he will be very, very reluctant to sound the alarm on inflation and jobs here. And I actually think, you know, if we look forward, central banks never look forward, right? I actually think there's some light at the end of the tunnel on many of these things, and some of it related, obviously, to what's going on in Iran and oil prices and all of that. But also, you know, more broadly speaking, if you look at the forward-looking labor market evidence, sure, but, you know, the labor market has rebounded, that's kind of in the price now, we've seen it three months in a row. But the labor market will most likely not improve from here. I mean, so we won't get more surprises in that direction, in my view.

• 15:01Speaker 02

  And, you know, all of the forward-looking indicators on labor, and remember, we highlighted this very acceleration in the labor market early this year. All of these forward looking indicators have flatlined since. So I, I think, you know, we've, we've come to terms with that now. I mean, the market has caught up to that narrative. And I don't think we should expect, you know, labor market surprises in direction of lower unemployment rates going into the second half of the year, more, more like a flatlining from here.

• 15:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. So Kevin Warsh, he's been giving the arguments to, to not deliver the rate cuts for Trump just yet. Has maybe given him a bit of time to work the committee and, and sell off the right narrative. But let's see in dress, very, very meaningful for markets, obviously.

• 15:47Speaker 03

  So a quick break in your regular programming. If you're serious about your future, grab my free report called Prepare for 2030. I think you've got five years to make as much money as possible. And this guide will help you navigate what's coming. The link is in the description. Download it now.

• 16:04Speaker 01

  Let's look a bit ahead towards July or towards June, first of all, before we get to July here in dress.

• 16:11Speaker 01

  Because obviously, when we're past this Red Friday, all eyes are going to be on the SpaceX IPO. So let's maybe begin there. How's that going to be driving markets over the, the coming weeks in your opinion?

• 16:24Speaker 02

  Yes, we, we already know that it's an oversubscribed IPO. They're aiming for roughly 75 billion in IPO proceeds, which is not a lot. You know, we're talking, depending on the ultimate pricing of the stock, we're talking a little less than 4% of the float, right? So it's a very small IPO in that sense, you know, it's not like they're IPOing the whole company at once. You typically don't do that, but, but we're talking smaller than usual still, right?

• 16:53Speaker 01

  Typically, at least 10, 20%.

• 16:55Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. So, so that sense, I would assume that most of the liquidity that had to be made available for the SpaceX IPO has been made available more or less already now.

• 17:10Speaker 02

  And of course, on top of that, we're starting to see. Admittedly, very worrying signs that all of the big tech names are starting to tap the equity market here. Alphabet raised equity, at least they made the official announcement a week ago or so, and the official pricing was made late last week. So also there, you had to free up some liquidity to participate in that equity raise. The equity raise is around 84 billion, but only half of that will be liquidity that you have to come up with now. The rest of it is Q3 onwards thing.

• 17:49Speaker 02

  So for what we know for June, basically, everything has already been subscribed to. That's just a point I want to make, and it's probably a part of what we saw last week with some of the hiccups, right? That people had to free up some liquidity for that. But the pipeline is nasty when you look at the IPOs and also the equity raise that is, you know, mulled by Meta now. And, you know, given this AI arms race that we're in, Michael, right? I actually think it's a clever, clever move from Alphabet to tap the equity market first, because they kind of tell all of the others to do the same, right? And it took a week that Meta started, you know, they haven't announced it, but you know,

• 18:34Speaker 02

  there's probably some truth to it when we see all of those stories around financial media outlets, right? And, you know, what about Microsoft? What about Amazon, etc.? Amazon has tapped the credit market mostly, right? And they'll probably also use the equity instrument going forward. I'm just guessing now, but that could very well be likely. And that is, you know, every time they tap the equity market, that's obviously a liquidity impact, right? Because, you know, you have to find the money somewhere. So how big is this right now compared to, you know, a typical month in private markets? Maybe that's the last thing I wanted to conclude with for this liquidity story. You know, we typically see a little bit more than 100 billion sucked out of private markets

• 19:16Speaker 02

  every month, and the SpaceX plus Alphabet sales here account for 110, 115. So we simply need to see either much less activity in private markets, the blue bar here, or else we need to see liquidity being sucked out of other instruments in already liquid markets, right? Because we we don't have enough cash on the sidelines to to just constantly deliver a hundred billion a month here. Um, that I I think that's pretty safe to say. Um, so it it all depends a little bit, but I, in my opinion, you know, we're we're also talking about the the hottest names of all names from the private side now going public. So of course it will suck some liquidity from private markets into public markets. So I'm

• 20:01Speaker 02

  not all concerned about it, but uh we'll have to see whether the private market dries up even more than what we've already seen this year. Uh, I think that is a very likely consequence of what's ongoing with all of these big IPOs coming from the private side to the public side.

• 20:15Speaker 01

  But this is the part of the capital concentration that we've been talking about in data, data center build out where you really begin to see the squeeze in other asset classes potentially. So very, very interesting to follow in couple coming coming months and quarters in address. Um, a few more notes on the month of June, um, before I move on a little bit in dress.

• 20:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, so um, I like to to have very simple rules. And and it it's been an incredible rally in everything related to data centers and then and so on and so forth. Um, but it all depends on one thing, uh, to make it very simple, and that's the price of a token. You know, as long as the price of tokens goes up, uh, it's obviously, you know, a clue that demand is rising, right? Uh, but it is also a clue that demand is is larger than supply. Uh, and as long as demand is larger than supply for these AI tokens, uh, obviously you you continue to build data centers. But if the opposite was true, if

• 21:13Speaker 02

  we get a negative rate of change here, you suddenly start to see fallout um in in in the token pricing. We did, we did see a pretty nasty drawdown in the token pricing actually from January to February, and some of these momentum names within data centers actually had a few rough weeks there.

• 21:30Speaker 02

  Of course, this drives everything. I mean, it drives the hardware trade. Because this whole bottleneck in memory, it won't last if this rolls over.

• 21:41Speaker 02

  And this is, you know, this is a spot index. You can follow it in real time. So if I were you, tuning into this show, I would have this on my screen every single day. This is the chart to watch. I don't think we can say that this is meaningfully rolled over. You know, we had a bad day on Friday alongside everything else. But we'll have to see what it does this week. If it rolls over, I'm out of this trade. It's as simple as that.

• 22:06Speaker 01

  And I mean, you get so much anecdotal evidence of this. You get stories that Microsoft are cutting the cloud costs. You get all these stories. And obviously, if tokens get cheaper, people are going to simply use more. That is the ongoing balance. But for the absolute tip of the spear investment wise, this is the one to watch. Very, very interesting. We'll try and keep it on for future shows as well.

• 22:31Speaker 01

  I just wanted to address, we're running a bit out of time. I wanted to touch on Trump's plan to buy up AI stocks that he tried to float over the weekend. It's incredible that first we got governments outruling recessions. Now we have governments outruling stock drawdowns. But that's a story for another time, that this curling government mentality. That's a story for another time, sorry. I just wanted to touch a little bit on the Middle East address because we're getting a lot of questions on that. And we had quite the weekend. I had actually believed Donald Trump to give us a new dose of Sunday hopium. Maybe also to call some of the unrest in markets from Friday.

• 23:10Speaker 01

  But we didn't get that. On the contrary, we got a situation that was seemingly close to spinning out of control. Late Sunday, early Monday here because Israel kept on attacking Lebanon, attacking the capital of Beirut. Iran decided enough was enough. They were going to step in on behalf of the Francis Bala, attack Israel. And then the Houthis in Yemen, remember them, address. They attack Israel too. They declared that Israeli shipping was now ruled out of the Red Sea. Now, Israeli shipping during the Red Sea, that's no problem as world markets go. But it's a reminder that, hey, we're here and we can cause a lot of trouble in the Red Sea as well if you don't behave.

• 23:53Speaker 01

  They obviously have an agreement with the US or the EU to break that. Not yet, but it's a big threat of that. At the very least, Andreas, this is a sign that Iran is not defeated. They're demonstrating that they still have the capacity to influence regional events. And on the other hand, you have to remember what Donald Trump said, which was the truest thing he said in months. That a ceasefire in the Middle East only means that people are shooting at each other at more moderate levels. And you know, Israel and Iran, they're going to be shooting rockets at each other occasionally. As long as they keep it at that and then agree that's that, that's okay. Yes, it was a humiliation of Donald Trump that he couldn't talk to Zinjaru out of this.

• 24:36Speaker 01

  But that's the way it is. These guys, they have to throw rockets at each other occasionally. And now we are out of that seemingly. And, you know, the ceasefire, it is fragile, but it's alive. The peace process is alive. We are getting there at some point. And, yeah, as long as nothing more happens, I'm not too worried about this. But obviously, we need to see some progress over the coming weeks, hopefully. We've said that for months, Andreas, but we do need it soon.

• 25:05Speaker 02

  Okay, but Magel, allow me to say one thing.

• 25:10Speaker 02

  But, you know, I wrote, I think it was during the first week of April, that the crisis is over. What I should have written was that the war is over. Because that's actually been true.

• 25:22Speaker 01

  It is.

• 25:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think the war is over. And I mean, even Marco Rubio explicitly stated that last week.

• 25:31Speaker 02

  So I think the only thing that really worries me is if the war restarts, if the US gets involved officially again, also rhetorically. That would worry me a lot, and I think that would wreak havoc on the trends that we've seen in dated oil and fertilizers. And I think we can get them on the screen because I've just made it a habit to look at, you know, physical markets every morning.

• 25:57Speaker 02

  And we're simply on a slippery slope price wise. We're going down, down, down, down. Everything related to the homeless. So fertilizers are back at price levels that are lower than pre Iran war. It's bizarre, given how much damage has been done on supply. The oil price is still up, but at very manageable levels now. I don't even think we're at levels that truly demand destruct anything. So it's amazing. And of course, this is very much driven by this cooperation that we see between the US and China in energy markets, right? They kind of agree that we need to keep energy markets in balance with storages and so on and so forth for as long as the Hornwood Strait is closed.

• 26:37Speaker 02

  But it's also driven by a lot of unofficial flows, unaccounted flows out of the regions. And, you know, the market is more creative than you think when it comes to stuff like this. So I think we've been more or less spot on on that, even though I kind of like your rage baiting analogy on it. I mean, people get so angry when I say I was right about this, even though everything has moved in the direction I told people that it would. Everything. There's nothing that moved in the wrong direction. Oil is down, fertilizers are down, helium gas prices are down, everything related to the homeless crisis is down. And everything related to risk assets is up. So I mean, couldn't be more right.

• 27:19Speaker 02

  Was it correct that the crisis was over? It's a matter of semantics in my view. And having said that, you said earlier today to me that this was kind of my Bonnie Blue rage baiting strategy, right? That I continuously refer to this. The crisis was over tweet and to get a lot of rage engagement. And I actually think you're kind of right because I also like it a little bit. And I hope Bonnie Blue likes her rage baiting strategy as well. For those of you who don't know her, please don't Google it.

• 27:48Speaker 01

  Please don't, please don't, please don't. We're not going to bring up the picture. We don't want to get demonetized here.

• 27:54Speaker 02

  We are an adult show, but not that kind of adult show, right?

• 27:57Speaker 01

  Not that adult, not that adult, or perhaps too adult for that. Absolute interest. So, I mean, let's see what happens here. I'm hoping I can have two good weeks of vacation without everything folding to pieces in the Middle East. But let's see. I'm still an optimist here. I have to say, I think things are looking decently well. If we get a solution here, yeah, who knows where the ceiling lies in risk assets.

• 28:20Speaker 01

  Anyway, Andreas, what a great show to to wrap up some very, very eventful days and very hurtful days as well for a lot of investors. We know that hopefully we can get some some brevity this week. That's all we have for you. Remember to tune in for Raul and Julien's live show in 30 minutes from now. That's for Alpha Tier and above on Real Vision. We'll be back next Monday with another edition of Macro Mondays. See you then.

• 28:44Speaker 03

  You obviously enjoyed the episode because you're here with me at the end. But listen, don't forget to go to realvision.com/join and grab a free membership. It's an incredible community packed with alpha, great investment ideas and the research that you need to help you unfuck your future. So get started now. Go to realvision.com/join.