Is Risk-On Too Risky? | Macro Mondays: August 31, 2026

Andreas Steno and Mikkel Rosenvold are back to unpack Kevin Warsh’s surprisingly hawkish message at Jackson Hole and what it could mean for markets. They also turn to the latest escalation in the Middle East following U. S. attacks on Larka Island. Is the war restarting, and could renewed geopolitical risk disrupt the market setup just as investors were beginning to embrace the bull case? 🔥 Get 𝗙𝗥𝗘𝗘 𝗔𝗖𝗖𝗘𝗦𝗦 to Real Vision https://rvtv.io/3YOZZUe Timestamps: 00:00 - Macro Mondays with Andreas Steno & Mikkel Rosenvold 00:23 - Kevin Warsh Turns Hawkish: Should Investors Pull Back on Risk? 02:01 - What Warsh’s Jackson Hole Speech Really Changed 03:31 - PCE vs CPI: Which Inflation Signal Should the Fed Trust? 06:22 - Warsh vs Bessent: The Battle Over Rates and Bond Yields 08:58 - September Rate Hike: Is the Market Overreading the Fed? 13:04 - Why One Rate Hike Probably Won’t Kill the Business Cycle 15:17 - US Strikes Larak Island: Is the Iran War Restarting? 16:46 - Strait of Hormuz, Crack Spreads, and the Next Inflation Trade 21:12 - South Korea Exports vs ISM: The AI Boom Is Still Running Hot 24:01 - Jobs Report Preview: Why Weak Payrolls May Not Stop the Fed 25:54 - ECB vs Fed: Why the Short-Dollar Trade Still Works #macromondays #macro #mikkelrosenvold #andreassteno #stenoresearch #markets #investing #stocks #stockmarket #fed #bonds #treasuries #usdollar #dxy #liquidity #ai #openai #anthropic #interestrates #trading #realvision #scottbessent #kevinwarsh #federalreserve Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Sometimes maybe good, sometimes maybe shit.

• 0:22Speaker 01

  It's Monday, it's time for Macro Mondays on Real Vision. My name is Michael Rosenwald and as usual, I'm joined by Andreas Steno. Welcome to the show, Andreas.

• 0:32Speaker 02

  Thanks, Michael. Good to see you.

• 0:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, you too. So Andreas, I'm gonna dive right into it and then we're gonna catch up a bit more on the Kevin Walsh speech and everything and take a deep dive into it. But let's get the headlines straight here.

• 0:45Speaker 01

  Surprisingly hawkish rhetoric, maybe, from Kevin Warsh, at least in the opinion of many pundits. Is this the time to pull the brakes on some of your risk trades, Andreas? Let's start there.

• 0:57Speaker 02

  No.

• 0:59Speaker 02

  You wanted a yes or no, I guess. But I'm, you know, the longer answer is that I'm more in doubt than a week ago.

• 1:09Speaker 01

  Okay, Andreas, we'll dive much more into that. Jackson Hole speech and the outlook for equity markets. We're gonna take a look at the state of the US economy and the Walsh-Bessent war going on. War is perhaps a bit much when we look at what's going on in the Middle East. That's a true war. And we're gonna talk a little bit about that. If the war is restarting with the attacks on the Larka Island that we have over the weekend, Andreas. Always great to learn new geography when the geopolitical show goes worldwide. So Andreas, I know you run a language processing model on the Fed sentiment based on the actual

• 1:50Speaker 01

  words uttered by whomever is in charge at this point, Kevin Warsh. So could you maybe, in the light of that, what did you learn from his Jackson Hole speech last week?

• 2:01Speaker 02

  So, you know, at first glance, it was admittedly a hawkish speech. But was it more hawkish than what we've seen from, you know, various of the lieutenants in the weeks prior to the Jackson Hole? According to this language processing model, no. And that was actually quite a surprise to me when I ran the numbers. It wasn't more hawkish than what we've seen from the Fed over the past few weeks. It wasn't more dovish either, it was more or less just the same. I guess the true surprise for many, if we look at market pricing, was that he didn't really lean into the soft inflation prints that we've had, say in July, for example.

• 2:46Speaker 02

  And in contrast to what he said during the July press conference, he essentially reestablished, you know, a crystal clear guidance around the PCE index being the one to follow or the one to track in terms of inflation, which was, you know, up in the air, to be honest, after that July press conference. He talked about new measures coming. It wasn't clear to me whether the inflation mandate was strictly tied to the PCE index after that press conference. It is now back to where it was ahead of that press conference. We're watching the PCE index. And the PCE index looks hot. There's no doubt about that.

• 3:32Speaker 02

  So the big question here is whether the PCE index is onto something relative to, for example, the CPI index. The CPI index, another inflation measure, is a lot softer than the PCE index right now. And obviously, since Wars has now put the PCE index back in the limelight, I've spent my weekend digesting that exact inflation number. So what do we make of this extreme divergence between PCE and CPI? It's on page seven in our slide deck. And remember, you can download the slides after this. Well, if you look at it in core terms to begin with, we're talking about the second

• 4:14Speaker 02

  hottest spread, so PCE higher than CPI since 1960. And we only have one more extreme observation, that was in 1983.

• 4:30Speaker 02

  And how do we characterize 1983 from an inflation standpoint? Well, it was an inflation that fell off a cliff, basically. It was an inflation landscape that went from very hot to a lot less hot. I think that's very fair to assume that it's the same case that we have now.

• 4:49Speaker 02

  Given this, you know, historical study, my best assumption, and I've reiterated that for at least a handful of weeks in a row now, is that the CPI is the directional guide, while the PCE is slower in, you know, changing inflation ratios. And you have, you know, there are quite a few, there are quite a few reasons why. I mean, the PCE adapts a few of the categories from the PPI index instead of the CPI index. It has less focus on shelter costs, and shelter costs have looked very soft over the summer. Those are some of the reasons why the PCE prints at much higher levels than the CPI. So, you know, all in all, I'm tempted to say that he kind of solidified the mandate

• 5:34Speaker 02

  around PCE again, right when the PCE is about to roll over. So what does that mean for the outlook?

• 5:42Speaker 02

  I think it was Morgan Stanley, one of the big investment banks, that wrote as a takeaway from the speech that if Walsh does not hike interest rates in September, he's at risk of a sort of a cry wolf event now, right? That he's crying wolf around inflation without really committing to anything. At some point, you need to commit to doing something about it. So he's reiterated that we want inflation back at 2%. That is our strict mandate. Given the current setup, inflation is more important than jobs and blah blah. He said the same thing again. So at some point, of course, you need to respond if the inflation index is printing at higher levels than what your mandate tells you to bring it to, right? And I kind of have sympathy for that.

• 6:26Speaker 02

  In case he doesn't do anything in September, we'll likely see another curve steepener event where the long bond yield goes up.

• 6:34Speaker 02

  In contrast to what Scott Besant has been trying to orchestrate over the past few weeks here. So in that sense, there is this, I wouldn't call it a battle between Wars and Besant. It's not like they're fighting each other in public, but there is, you know, a tit for tat ongoing behind the scenes. And we'll have to see who comes out on top. What I'm watching right now, and I think that's maybe the most interesting takeaway from a risk asset perspective, is how does Scott Besant respond to this? Because he's basically promised to double up the buybacks of long bonds, but he said at least double up. What if he triples them or quadruples them or 5X them? I mean, he can do that.

• 7:16Speaker 01

  Cash to do it, yeah.

• 7:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. And we'll get the first sign of what he intends to do next week. So I think it's on September 9th, there's this buyback operation, right? So my, you know, my gut feeling, you know, we're talking about trying to forecast people with weird incentive structures right now, is that he'll buy more than double up to try and send a signal to the bond market in nine days from now. But we'll have to see. And then it's a true, you know, tit for tat between Wars and Besant here.

• 7:48Speaker 01

  Absolutely, Andreas. One thing I just wanted to dive into, that maybe I'm reading too much into it, but as I understood Kevin Warsh, he said that interest rates at the current level are maybe containing inflation and simultaneously not hurting the economy, not hurting the AI build out. Is that a fair way of putting it?

• 8:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I mean, he kind of, you know, when he discussed financial conditions, he referred to the data center build out as not hurt by current conditions, but he referred to, for example, agricultural, you know, farmers and agricultural goods and, for example, housing being hurt by current conditions. So it kind of matters whether you talk about one part of the economy or the other.

• 8:37Speaker 01

  My question was this, Andreas, does this open sort of a slimmer of a window if we begin to see hiccups in the AI trade as a result of interest rate fears over the level of debt being used to accelerate the AI? Does that open any sort of window or am I being too positive here?

• 8:58Speaker 02

  Well, you know, I think, which is basically refers back to the question you asked to begin with, I think there is a risk that we see a setback into a rate hike, right? If we get a rate hike in September, it's not done and dusted if you look at the market pricing, but it is, you know, approaching at the base case for many. It's like everyone has concluded that Kevin Warsh has forward guided a rate hike, even though he explicitly says that he's not forward guiding anything, but.

• 9:24Speaker 01

  That was very explicit to the point that he wouldn't forward. But yeah, it's going there even beyond the coin toss levels, I think, yeah.

• 9:31Speaker 02

  But having said that, right, it's kind of the market base case that we get a couple of rate hikes now.

• 9:38Speaker 02

  At least a couple, right? Maybe even a tad more. So, you know, a hike without any like clear message that we will get more, I don't think that's a biggie now because it's already in the market price, right? Of course, if we get a rate hike and they kind of signal that more is coming, they probably won't, given that he's not forward guiding anything. Then it's another question, but I am, I've said it also on other shows and in our, you know, research papers here and there, that I think the period between now and the midterms looks wobbly. I'm not sure we'll get a lot of direction from markets. And then I think post the midterms, we'll get a better environment again.

• 10:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, that is sometimes what you see around the midterm. We've written a bit about that. Okay, rounding off on Kevin Warsh, Andreas, and we'll dive more into what we see in the economy here.

• 10:34Speaker 01

  I can't help but wonder, is Donald Trump okay with this? Is this what he thought he would be getting instead of Jay Powell?

• 10:44Speaker 02

  Well, you could argue that it's the second time that he's hired

• 10:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:49Speaker 02

  a hawk auditioning as a dove.

• 10:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:52Speaker 02

  Which is kind of odd, right? Kevin Warsh was kind of hawkish when he was on the committee. Ahead of the great financial crisis as well. He's pretty known for his extreme hawkishness just before Lehman went down, right? So having said that, you know, let's try and assume the responsibility of Kevin Warsh here, you and I, right? If you entered the office with the backdrop that Kevin Warsh is entering the office with, wouldn't it make sense to try and solidify your institutional mandate, your credibility and all of that to begin with? Try, you know, try to tell everyone, I'm not a puppet. I'll do whatever it takes to, you know, safeguard the credibility of this institution.

• 11:36Speaker 02

  And then as soon as you've established that, you have the better chance of actually, you know, tilting stuff in your direction.

• 11:43Speaker 02

  I wouldn't rule that out. It's very difficult to forecast Kevin Warsh right now since he's not saying a lot. But, you know, given the more medium term

• 11:54Speaker 02

  outlook for inflation, also given the analysis I laid out on the PCE index, I'd say that it's decently likely that we have a very soft inflation window between Q4 and Q1. We can argue that 2027 will be a more inflationary environment. I think that's likely. But at least for now, I think it's the base case that we'll see inflation coming lower

• 12:18Speaker 02

  into the end of the year and into the first quarter of next year. So if he delivers a hike in September and kind of, you know, tones down the expectations with whatever tools he's got in his toolbox, I think it's a decent start for him. You know, he'll solidify his credibility. He'll avoid all of those accusations that he's just a Trump puppet. And then maybe he's got more to work with next year. I don't know. We're talking about forecasting, again, as I said, a person with a very weird incentive structure here. It's not easy. And ultimately,

• 12:58Speaker 02

  the big question here, is it enough to, you know, alter the trajectory of the business cycle if we get run one rate hike? No, I mean, we obviously need more to kill the cycle. It's not like everything ends with a 25 basis points hike. So, you know,

• 13:11Speaker 01

  No, no.

• 13:12Speaker 02

  The big question here is whether is this a cycle of rate hikes? Or is it just sort of a mid-cycle adjustment? And I'm more in the mid-cycle adjustment camp if we get a rate hike at all. Having said that, I personally still think that we're overreading what he said on Friday. You know, why is everyone chasing this as a forward guidance when he's explicitly telling you not to?

• 13:40Speaker 01

  He told us that he won't. He told us, don't look to me for trades, essentially. Do your own homework. Do your own trading. Don't just wait for me here. So, yeah, he's trying his best not to become a meme a lot like Jay Powell all the time. So, Andreas, before we dive a little bit more into the situation in Hormuz,

• 14:02Speaker 01

  just a few notes from our offerings at Real Vision. We're throwing out free content left, right and center at the moment. Obviously, Macro Mondays is free for you to watch every Monday, giving you a sneak peek into the stuff that we do on Real Vision. Raoul Pal is doing his Drinks With series, which is also broadcasted free on YouTube. That's always hilarious to join. It's on September 3rd, that's on Thursday and 7:00 PM Eastern. In case you missed it, Andreas, I know you didn't miss it, but listeners missed it. You sat down with Raul last week as well on his Journeyman podcast. So really, absolutely worth a watch, that one. And obviously to complement that, and more, we have three flagship reports each and every week published.

• 14:46Speaker 01

  Our portfolio update every Friday, Euro Steno Signals editorial every Monday. And then I published the Drill geopolitical update on Wednesday. And Andreas, speaking of geopolitics, we,

• 14:58Speaker 01

  even though the war in the Hormuz have sort of fizzled out from a military political perspective,

• 15:06Speaker 01

  we're still seeing massive spillovers to energy markets. Obviously, the crack spread we'll get into in a minute.

• 15:11Speaker 03

  So a quick break in your regular programming. If you're serious about your future, grab my free report called Prepare for 2030. I think you've got five years to make as much money as possible. And this guide will help you navigate what's coming. The link is in the description. Download it now.

• 15:28Speaker 01

  Then over the weekend, we heard that the US had attacked some rocket launches on Lark Island. And just to give you an idea of how I assess situations like this, because that's also useful when these news hit and you decide, okay, do we need to panic about this? Or do you need to just monitor this? Right now, the battle is about the Strait of Hormuz. So it's about a stretch of water, essentially. Okay. So what was attacked on Lark Island? Rocket launches, yes, but rocket launches designed to have the rockets drop sea mines. So this was an attack aimed at limiting Iran's ability to disrupt the flow of traffic in the Strait of Hormuz.

• 16:12Speaker 01

  So again, linked to the Strait of Hormuz. This means that sort of in a strategic military thinking, you're still in the same arena. You haven't begun attacking ground troops or allied countries or civilian targets. You're still sort of in the, we're fighting about the Strait of Hormuz situation. That gives me

• 16:31Speaker 01

  some calm here, even though the Iranian response was quite violent. I think markets are overacting a little bit to this. But again, we are getting to a point where the crack spreads and the continued impact on energy inflation is massive, Andreas. You labeled a good start to the economic D-Day. I think there was a clever way of looking at this economic D-Day. But just explain to us, Andreas, what you're seeing in this crack spread chart that we use regularly here.

• 17:03Speaker 02

  You know, crack spreads in dark blue, they kind of peaked right around that D-Day announcement.

• 17:09Speaker 01

  You have to acknowledge that, yeah.

• 17:11Speaker 02

  Kind of the same if you look at oil futures and dated oil. So at least, you know, if we measure it from a market standpoint, it's often a good start. I don't know whether it works or not, but it worked from market perspective. Having said that, you know, technically speaking, I think it's a good zone to short energy prices from this one. Also since, you know, given this sine wave war where we go from peak to trough to peak to trough to peak to trough, it kind of works as a good entry to short energy prices just after an escalation, right? Rather than doing the opposite. It's very tempting to go long oil when you've seen an attack, but maybe it's better to go short oil. So I have a short oil lean here.

• 17:57Speaker 02

  And speaking of the impact of this,

• 18:03Speaker 02

  obviously, the key to unlocking this disinflation that I've been talking about into early next year is probably to get some sort of second memorandum of understanding since there is a massive potential. You see the gap basically here between the crack spreads and the oil price. That is consumer disinflation ready to be unlocked as soon as we get that refiners capacity from the Middle East online again. As some have pointed to when I've shared that intel, there is also an issue with the refiners capacity in Russia. I don't, I have sympathy for that view as well, just to be clear. That matters especially for diesel. And we're obviously talking about Ukraine striking refiners inside of Russia on a running basis.

• 18:48Speaker 02

  So I think roughly 50% of the refiners capacity is offline in Russia. It matters for diesel because they then ban diesel exports.

• 18:57Speaker 02

  While the lack of refiners capacity in the Middle East matters a lot more for jet fuel. Having said that, those two are obviously interconnected because a refiner can switch from one to the other. And yeah, what I'm trying to get to here is that

• 19:13Speaker 02

  don't go long oil when you've just seen an escalation. Don't buy the inflation story when you've just seen an escalation. I think it is a good idea to, you know, take the opposite side of that bet when markets start to price in the escalatory path, which was kind of the case as well with the D-Day stuff. You know, everything related to prices peaked around that message because, you know, markets build up expectations of an escalation and then you get the fade from there. And I think this weekend is kind of an example of the same.

• 19:48Speaker 02

  Again, you know, if we get some sort of product steal around the Strait of Hormuz, we're talking maybe four, five months in a row of crystal clear deflation in headline terms. Because we'll unlock a lot of that inflation coming from crack spreads. And, you know, that would be the game changer for me because no matter how little sense it makes, especially the European Central Bank, but also to some extent the Federal Reserve, they will look at headline inflation, even though it's very impacted by, you know, wars and stuff like that. And, you know, what does it matter through hike rates if the oil is offline? Of course, you could try and impact the demand side of that equation,

• 20:33Speaker 02

  but you can impact the demand side of that equation with a long time lag. And in between now and then, of course, the supply side could be very different. So I'm not really sure that central banks should respond to this, but they will. History tells you that they will because it's just very difficult to defend another approach. When inflation is running too hot, even though it's due to a war, we need to respond to some extent, and especially the European Central Bank is already, you know, very trigger happy as a consequence.

• 21:04Speaker 01

  Yes, and it seems to be trumping other, uh, other concerns like the job market, et cetera, simply because it is, it is very, very urgent for the administration also to get, um, to get the prices under control, essentially. It is what kills governments after all. Um, inflation is. Okay, Andreas, uh, let's fly out, fly over a few other of, uh, of our regular charts, uh, that are very interesting right now. South Korea, the classic, Andreas, the, uh, the big 2026 chart. I know it's been used before, but we've been using it a lot in 2026. Uh, is this, we, we've talked a lot about spreads here, PCI, CPI spreads and the track spread. Is this the biggest spread between the South Korean exports and, uh, and the ISM we've seen so far?

• 21:50Speaker 02

  Yep, without a doubt. And, you know, uh, the question is obviously whether it is, it is of course an AI-driven spread, right? But also given what, what Trump just put out on, on truth, uh, 30 minutes ago, around communities having to support data centers and the build-out and all of that, because it will create jobs and, you know, jobs for regular people and all of that. We're starting to see that, you know, I, I, I think it, it makes sense that there is a lag between the South Korean exports and the manufacturing economy here, though the cyclical part of the economy, because, uh, when you export chips, it's, it's not like you export them

• 22:31Speaker 02

  and then, uh, the day after they arrive in the US, you just plug them into a data center, right? Um, we're talking about a build-out.

• 22:39Speaker 01

  But not quite.

• 22:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. We're talking about a build-out that's got faces in it, of course, and, um, there, there is to me no doubt, uh, also when you look at subcategories in, in the, um, uh, in the job creation, that there is a lot of jobs coming out of this AI build-out. Uh, also, you know, jobs that are not related to, to the chips, right? It, we're talking about construction workers, electricians, you know, everything needed to, to construct things. And this is basically a construction economy, uh, by the end of the day. And when you have a strong construction economy, it's built over to the manufacturing economy overall, because a lot of local suppliers and all of that are, of course, a part of that supply chain. Uh, so I am tempted to say that the ISM manufacturing, uh, out tomorrow

• 23:22Speaker 02

  will surprise two or three index points to the upside here, um, given, given what we've observed so far now in outcasting and, and from the regions, uh, publishing stuff. So, um, the expectation.

• 23:34Speaker 01

  It's expected to roll over a little bit, yeah.

• 23:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's expected to print at 55.2. Uh, I think we'll get very close to 58.

• 23:42Speaker 01

  58, wow.

• 23:43Speaker 02

  Yes. So, so that, that's basically where our model puts it. So, um, we'll, we'll, we'll have to see, but, you know, at least we have a very clearly versus the consensus here.

• 23:52Speaker 01

  That's enough to drive markets, isn't it, to drive a true reaction?

• 23:56Speaker 02

  Hopefully, but, but, uh, hopefully, but, but, um, you know, it could also be an excuse to hike interest rates since September, so, you know, it's, it's kind of a two-sided sword.

• 24:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. But, but I mean, it's, uh, 58, wow, Andreas. Okay. Um, any points on the, the non-farm payrolls coming up later this week, Andreas? We, we have a big print week. We always love those, but, um.

• 24:18Speaker 02

  So I, I, I'd like to say a few things.

• 24:20Speaker 01

  Some of the same dynamic as the ISM, yeah, go ahead.

• 24:22Speaker 02

  Because, remember exactly a month ago, we had a print of, I think it was minus 23,000, right? Uh, and a, a lot of people had told me, uh, the Fed cannot hike with a negative payroll report ahead of it. Uh, I, I disagree with that because, uh, you know, we're in a structurally different economy right now. Given that the breakeven job creation on a monthly basis is, you know, between friends around 30,000 jobs for now, you know, we're, we don't have that inflow of migrants anymore. Uh, so the economy simply doesn't create as many jobs from a supply side perspective, right? Um, when you have a, say, a base rate of 30K a month,

• 25:06Speaker 02

  you know, just from a statistical standpoint, you'll print it below zero, say, once a quarter, uh, maybe once every four months. So it would, we'd better get used to that. It, it's, it's a normal print now to see minus 20K jobs. It's not something to worry about. It's just what it is. Um, and therefore, I, I, it, it was kind of solidified by, by Walsh's comments on Friday. He said, well, uh, we don't really worry about jobs mandated right now because, you know, unemployment is low, et cetera, right? So he, um, he, he's got his eyes on, on inflation. It seems to be the same conclusion, uh, that is shared by many of the members of the committee. So the key to unlocking the Fed here, if, if you're hoping for lower interest rates, is to see lower inflation. It's not to see

• 25:49Speaker 02

  non-farm payrolls below zero. Um, I think the consensus is around 55K on Friday. Uh, I'll, I'll probably lean on the soft side of that, but not enough to really alter the trajectory of the Fed here.

• 26:02Speaker 01

  Okay, Andreas. Um, any final remarks before we round off, Andreas? We have an interest rate decision by the ECB, but you're usually less, uh, less hyped about that.

• 26:11Speaker 02

  So, so, okay, um, I'll, I'll say, I'll say this about it. Um, and you obviously need to read our research to get all of the details on, on how to trade it, but.

• 26:22Speaker 01

  And it's next week, so I've got the, yeah.

• 26:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, but, but, uh, we've been banging the drum on this transatlantic inflation spread between the Eurozone and the US, supporting a more aggressive European Central Bank here in September than, than, uh, the Fed policy path, right? Uh, I still think that is the case. Uh, so when we look at the September decision from the ECB versus the September decision by the Fed, it could very well be that we get a rate hike from both. But I think in terms of future expectations, as long as we have this products inflation in oil space, which remains the case, and it's even more the case in Europe, where we have the nat gas issue on top, uh, I think

• 27:07Speaker 02

  it is a good working assumption that the European Central Bank will out-hawk the Fed. Uh, and that kind of supports the notion that the euro versus the dollar goes up. Uh, we've been, you know, incredibly right on that trade since early July, took a beating on Friday, but it's not like it's off that trade. Uh, and if I'm right, that Scott Besen starts the printer, uh, on September 9th, we obviously get a treasury-driven, so, short leg to the dollar trade as well. Uh, so I think that's the one to watch when you look at the ECB versus the Fed, including this Fed versus Treasury debacle that is ongoing, uh, that, that short dollar trade, it took a beating on Friday, but it still looks good.

• 27:48Speaker 02

  Uh, and, you know, he kind of, he kind of handed all of those speculators currently long the dollar case. The dollar case is very long, uh, if you look at, at market positioning across all measures. Uh, Walsh kind of handed those a life vest, but I think, um, Scott Besen will try and drown them again, pardon my French, but, uh, I, I think that is exactly what's going to happen in, in nine days from now.

• 28:11Speaker 01

  Push and pull, Andreas.

• 28:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:12Speaker 01

  Okay, guys, that's all we had for you this week from Macro Mondays. Please remember to like and subscribe on YouTube or in the podcast channel or wherever you are listening. Uh, we very much appreciate that. It helps get our, uh, our message out even wider and even more guys involved in our, uh, in our stuff, which is always great. Uh, please also leave a comment if you have ideas for shows or questions to, to, to pick up in coming shows. We're always welcoming those, even though there's usually, uh, lots of stuff to talk about each week, but we, we, we love to get those. So thanks to you, Andreas, for joining in. Thanks to everyone for watching. We'll be back next Monday.

• 28:46Speaker 03

  You obviously enjoyed the episode because you're here with me at the end. But listen, don't forget to go to realvision.com forward slash join and grab a free membership. It's an incredible community packed with alpha, great investment ideas and the research that you need to help you unfuck your future. So get started now. Go to realvision.com forward slash join.