Office Hours: Can Fast Fashion Be Sustainable? Thoughts on Female Leadership, and Forming Friendships Later in Life

Scott gives his thoughts on the fast fashion industry and how the industry is inherently unsustainable. He then speaks about female leadership, specifically how women can speak up in the business world. He wraps up with a discussion on male friendship. Music: https://www.davidcuttermusic.com / @dcuttermusic Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Scott Galloway?

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• 0:48Speaker 01

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• 1:26Scott Galloway?

  Welcome to the PropG Pod's Office Hours. This is the part of the show where we answer your questions about business, big tech, entrepreneurship, and whatever else is on your mind. If you'd like to submit a question, please email a voice recording to [email protected]. Again, that's [email protected]. I have not heard or seen these questions. First question.

• 1:44Speaker 02

  Hi Scott, this is Marcio from Portugal. I'm a tech executive at an e-commerce fashion company, and I'm a big fan of your podcast, content, and books. I find it really helpful and inspiring in many ways. The current economic context led fast fashion companies to focus more on profitability rather than sustainability. And since it has been hard for a brand to prove success on most circular business models, what are your thoughts on keeping compatibility between both? Fast fashion and sustainability? Is that even possible for a fast fashion company to succeed in circular business models?

• 2:22Scott Galloway?

  This is a tough one. Critics say that fast fashion apparel cannot be sustainable by its very nature. Fast fashion is inherently not sustainable because what it means is making a bunch of products super inexpensively, finding the lowest cost producer, which in itself is not, you know, somewhat contrary to sustainability. And it's sort of disposable clothing that doesn't get recycled. So it's almost like saying, well, I want to be the first sustainable SUV manufacturer, but I have internal combustion engines. It's just, well, it's going to be a hard road to toe. And I don't think, I'm not sure that it's up to them to be sustainable. I think they want to be good citizens. But I do think there should probably be regulation based on your emissions or your

• 3:04Scott Galloway?

  waste in the form of taxation that provides the capital to reinvest or gives tax credits to companies that are actually sustainable. People would argue, well, there's ESG or DEI rankings now. That's come under attack. The fast fashion industry is a significant contributor to the climate crisis with it being responsible for as much as, get this, 10% of global carbon dioxide emissions. Did you know that? 10%. Greenwashing is an increasingly common practice among fast fashion companies. They claim they're sustainable, but actually instituting sustainable practice. I would bet there's more money spent on communicating and saying we're sustainable than actual sustainability. In an anonymous survey conducted by the Harris Poll for Google Cloud, 68% or two-thirds

• 3:47Scott Galloway?

  of US executives admitted their companies are guilty of greenwashing. Fast fashion? I don't know. It just feels to me, I don't think these companies are good for the planet. They've created a tremendous amount of shareholder value. I think the third wealthiest family in Europe are the Families behind Zara and I you can kind of understand how well young people deserve to want to have interesting fashionable clothing at a decent price. I think it comes down to over time, matching externalities to the taxes and economic interests of companies. I don't think for waiting for companies, CEOs, better angels to show up, don't hold your breath. And that is, most of it is virtue signaling.

• 4:30Scott Galloway?

  Some companies put sustainability at the center of their brand, but most do it mostly to kind of distract, right? To pretend they're doing something they're not. Most of it's bullshit. So if you want a more sustainable fashion industry, you're just going to need regulation. And that is, you're going to need to tax apparel manufacturers and retailers who are just disproportionately fucking up the environment, just the same way I think we should tax aviation fuel, because the amount of carbon being expectorated into the air by people who fly private is 10 times what people, the emissions of somebody who flies commercial. So the whole point of regulation is to bring externalities in line with the costs, such

• 5:13Scott Galloway?

  that we can take that additional tax revenue and promote or invest in more sustainable technologies. So for example, in the case of aviation, we should be spending, I think the government should be spending a lot of money in R and D and sustainable jet fuels, such that flying to home to see your family doesn't spew all the shit into the air. And I think the same is true for fast fashion. I think that we should be figuring out ways to tax the companies, their biggest offenders, and then use that money for government funded R and D that creates more sustainable products, if you will. But the notion of trying, you know, hoping these companies will become more sustainable on their own, and we talk about it a lot, I'm cynical. I've been on a bunch of boards and at the end of the day, most boards make the decision to do whatever's going to move the share price up.

• 5:57Scott Galloway?

  And while consumers talk a big game about sustainability and privacy, I see them taking Instagram photos of themselves at Coachella in their new clothing that they will wear twice, that ends up in a landfill or is being manufactured by a child in a remote village in some developing country. I think there's a lot of, I don't think the music matches the words here, but the whole point. Of taxes and the reason why we spend 23% of our GDP on government is they're supposed to prevent a tragedy of commons, think long term, think about sustainability and put in place taxes and incentives that again foot externalities to the actual harm, if you will. Anyways, thanks for the question and good luck. Question number two.

• 6:40Speaker 03

  Hey Scott, Caroline here. I'm a woman entering my 30s, working as a corporate brand strategist in New York. I love your energetic off the wall points of view and really learned so much from your market analysis and predictions. By nature, I think that I have some similar tendencies, loud, boisterous, sometimes quick. I'm always wanting to see the room shake. But unfortunately, as we all know too well, as a woman in corporate America and even just in life, I don't have the same privilege of being provocative in my thoughts and actions as you do. I would love to hear your commentary and thoughts on female leadership, how we can move beyond these constructs that we're forced to operate in, how we can be louder

• 7:24Speaker 03

  and more unhinged, which we all want to be. And lastly, what women in tech, business and branding do you admire and or have learned something from along the way? Thanks.

• 7:35Scott Galloway?

  It's a really thoughtful question, Caroline. I love the term entering your 30s. Does that mean you're 29 and about to be 30 or you're like me and like to pretend you're younger than you are and you're actually 34 and still think of that as entering? Anyways, I love that. I'm going to start saying that I'm entering my senior years. A lot of people will say, I get something along the lines of you're provocative and you're a truth teller, which is kind of code for you're obnoxious. And it's been really successful for you. How do I embrace that? And I say, well, be careful or tread lightly because first I want to acknowledge my privilege. I was born a white heterosexual male entering the 70s, I mean the mid 60s.

• 8:17Scott Galloway?

  And that provided me with a certain amount of wind in my sails. That's given me huge economic prosperity that I wouldn't have otherwise had had I not been born in America with those attributes. I was able to raise money. I was able to get free education. And I'm not, this isn't a humble brag. I'm a talented person. But someone with my talent and my grit wouldn't have had the same upside in another, another region of the world. And there's just no getting around it. Men my age had a unfair advantage relative to everyone else. I think that has changed. I think that especially in the tech community and the progressive, kind of progressive tech sector, information economy, I would argue in the data shows that at least people under

• 8:58Scott Galloway?

  the age of 30 or people without kids, women have largely closed the wage gap. And as a matter of fact, more women, more single women now own homes than single men. It's when they have kids that the labor market decides to really start becoming somewhat biased or even misogynistic. So then the question is, okay, how can I be provocative? And, you know, I don't know if that you can play that with leadership, but how can I be more bold and out there? And as you say, loud and boisterous? I think there's room for that for women now at organizations. I would even argue that a lot of men are told, younger men are given conflicting signals, you know? You should just be quiet. You should just be listening right now, or silence is violence.

• 9:43Scott Galloway?

  I'm not sure I buy into the premise that young women do not have the same opportunities in tech as men. I think there's probably some built in biases. I think those biases really emerge when women have children. I don't think corporate America has figured out a way, and all the data shows this, to maintain a woman's trajectory. Once she has a kid, also, society just places more burden for child rearing on the woman. In terms of female leaders that I admire, there's just a ton of them. I admire Representative Katie Porter, who's just a truth teller and unafraid. I love Senator Amy Klobuchar, the partner. I have always worked with female CEOs, not always, but

• 10:25Scott Galloway?

  seven of the eight companies that I have started have been run by the CEO has either been Someone in the LGBTQ community or a woman. One of my role models is my partner Catherine Dillon, who is a great player coach. And that is she'll sit down with people and walk them through how to fix something. Rather than me saying, we need to be better and trying to give some inspiring kind of rah rah speech, she'll say, you didn't edit this document correctly. I'm going to edit it with you and I'm going to teach you how to fish. I'm not sure I buy into your premise that you can't be as provocative as the men at your age and in a progressive organization. What I would say is to tread lightly because I have economic security and I can say these things.

• 11:09Scott Galloway?

  I wrote a piece on the Writers Guild of America and so many people in the Writers Guild, there's 11,000 of them, I think 10,000 of them came for me on Twitter. That could potentially be a threat to my career. I've said some very provocative things about people in tech who have called my dean at NYU. By the way, being right isn't enough. You have to be effective and to be effective, you have to be politically astute and realize that sometimes you need to tread lightly. So, one, I would be careful and thoughtful. If it's being provocative about your work, I get that. And check in with people. I have, I always surround myself with people who are willing to push back and say, Scott, you're being unnecessarily profane. It doesn't add anything to this piece. Or do you really want to say that? You sound more angry than thoughtful here. And I have a lot of people that save me from myself.

• 11:54Scott Galloway?

  So be provocative, be fearless, but also be mindful, be kind, and always make sure you have people around you who are willing to push back and go. The upside here just isn't worth the potential downside. Thanks so much for the thoughtful question. We have one quick break before our final question. Stay with us.

• 12:15Scott Galloway?

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• 13:00Scott Galloway?

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• 13:15Scott Galloway?

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• 14:00Scott Galloway?

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• 14:27Scott Galloway?

  Welcome back. Question number three.

• 14:29Speaker 04

  Hi, Scott. My name is Brad, and like you, I'm living in the UK as an American expat. My wife and I moved to the UK for her career in 2020. And while we spent the first year or so living through the lockdowns and isolation of COVID, we've enjoyed settling into life here. However, one of the biggest personal challenges for me has been trying to build a new network of male friends. I'm currently job hunting after completing my masters. So in the meantime, my wife has connected me with some of her coworkers. We've had good neighbors and I've found volunteer opportunities in the community to try and build connections. Yet, I feel like these relationships with both American and British men have struggled to develop into full-fledged friendships. Why is it so challenging for men to build new friendships with other men as we get

• 15:14Speaker 04

  older? I'm 35 years old and curious what your experience has been in trying to develop new male friendships as you've gotten older. Anything you've found to be successful? Love all your work. Thanks.

• 15:25Scott Galloway?

  We're in what a lot of people would call a friendship recession, specifically American men. A survey conducted by the Survey Center on American Life in 2021 revealed that, get this, 15% or 1 in 7 men did not have a single friend. That is a five-fold increase since 1990. That same survey found men were less likely than women to depend upon their friends for emotional support or to share their personal feelings. And the question is, why do men have a tougher time making friends, especially as they get older? The first is, I think, we're not in the context for friendship. I grew up playing sports. I was in a fraternity in college. I was constantly surrounded by other men in sort of unsupervised environments, if you

• 16:10Scott Galloway?

  will, where we're bouncing off of each other all the time in a very formative part of our lives. So we had the context and environments to establish friendships because we were constantly around each other. And then as you get older and you get a spouse and you get kids and you get work, you're not in as many contexts, if you will, with other men, not as many random opportunities to develop friendships. And also, I think as we get older, is this true? I've become more introverted. I have a tougher time making friends. Also, men are suspicious of one another. There's actually decent reason for that instinctually, and that is while our superpowers, cooperation, for a large, for the 300,000 years that humans have been on this planet or Homo sapiens,

• 16:54Scott Galloway?

  if you will, men, strange men, were a threat to one another. We're also, at least in America, taught that affection or compliments toward another man

• 17:06Scott Galloway?

  Uh, mean you're gay, which was an insult when I was growing up. And finally, we've become a little bit more progressive and a little bit less homophobic. Or two, that you would use affection or hugging as a means of that affection was an attempt to have sex with somebody. And also, we have this weird fucked up sense of masculinity where we see compliments as a zero sum game, where if you are impressed by another man, somehow it diminishes how impressed, how impressed you are. So I think there's a lot of reasons for it. It sounds to me like you're just gonna get there on your own, that you're being thoughtful about it, you're putting yourself in positions where you'll have random encounters with other men, volunteer work, you sound like a thoughtful guy.

• 17:49Scott Galloway?

  I don't know, like, I don't have like a killer app or solution, uh, other than to be open and accept invitations.

• 17:59Scott Galloway?

  You know, I mean, this sounds ridiculous, but my, my wife sets up playdates for me. She'll literally find interesting couples or an interesting guy and say, you should get together with them. Also, I get a lot of introductions just by virtue of what I do. A lot of us are struggling with this. And if you reach out, if you meet someone and you find them interesting, inviting them out for a beer or saying, hey, I'd love to get together and grab a coffee, or do you want to go to the Spurs game? But I find there's a lot of guys out there that are actually very open to this notion of friendship. Uh, but my sense is, boss, you're gonna be just fine. I've also, I want to say, I find, generally speaking, that the British are, are pretty friendly here. Thanks for the question. That's all for this episode. If you'd like to submit a question, please email a voice recording to [email protected].

• 18:44Scott Galloway?

  Again, that's [email protected].

• 18:57Scott Galloway?

  This episode was produced by Caroline Shageran. Jennifer Sanchez is our associate producer and Drew Burrows is our technical director. Thank you for listening to the Prop G Pod from the Vox Media Podcast Network. We will catch you on Saturday for No Mercy, No Malice, as read by George Hahn, and on Monday with our weekly market show.

• 19:15Speaker 05

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