Office Hours: The Education Episode

Scott answers a question about fair pay for teachers. He also explains why he’ll be heartbroken if his kids don’t end up going to college, despite all his qualms with the higher education system. Scott then shares his thoughts on how to address mental health on university campuses and offers suggestions for building more equitable institutions. Music: https://www.davidcuttermusic.com / @dcuttermusic Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Scott Galloway?

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• 0:48Speaker 01

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• 1:27Scott Galloway?

  Welcome to the ProfGPod's Office Hours. This is the part of the show where we answer your questions about business, big tech, entrepreneurship, and whatever else is on your mind. If you'd like to submit a question, please email a voice recording to [email protected]. Again, that's [email protected]. First question, and again, I do not see or listen to these questions before they are submitted, so that raw, authentic, unfinished...

• 1:53Scott Galloway?

  You know, what is it? The uncut version, the un, the, what was it called? The Criterion Uncut version, where you go buy a LaserDisc for some reason and think it was going to be a new movie because they include a two-minute scene that justifiably was cut out of the movie. Anyway, anyway, first question.

• 2:09Speaker 03

  Hi, Prov G. My name is Jordan and I'm calling from Boca Raton, Florida. Thank you so much for this opportunity to ask a question. My father and I constantly bond over your books and ideas and we really appreciate what we learn from you. So, thank you. I'm currently studying communications at an international university in Israel and I continue to find that my teachers and professors truly make a huge impact on me both in and out of the classroom. I feel like we as a society still have a ways to go in recognizing teachers for all the work they do. For many kids, an inspiring teacher can be such a positive figure. How can we get to a place where teachers are compensated and recognized at a level equivalent with the impact they make?

• 2:46Scott Galloway?

  Uh, I think high school teachers average around 60 or 62 grand. That means they average, meaning for every person makes 80K, someone's making 40K, which I believe is the lowest-paid category or profession that requires a Bachelor of Arts. The labor supply market is a function of supply and demand and a lot of people want to be teachers, meaning that schools can continue to underpay or pay at the level they pay. There's some nuance here. High school teachers are underpaid. A high school principal in Massachusetts makes $160,000. However, 97 of the 100 highest-paid public servants in the state of Massachusetts work for the University of Massachusetts and there's several chancellors and administrators there that make a million dollars a year.

• 3:29Scott Galloway?

  It's very difficult to talk generally about all teachers. What I will say is that I think one means of maintaining the supply-demand economics, I think, that hold people accountable and recognize the choices they make. Is that we should offer more forgiveness around student loans for people who decide to go into teaching because if you need a BA, the cost of a BA, I think we're losing a lot of fantastic human capital that would like to teach, but because they come out of undergrad with so much debt, they are forced to go into higher paying professions. Complicated topic, I agree with you. It would be nice if there was more compensation involved, but I, as someone who is an academic, granted not undergrad, not primary, but secondary,

• 4:13Scott Galloway?

  I sometimes worried that we're overpaid. Anyways, Jordan, Boca Raton, good for you. And not only that, the nicest thing anyone has said, really the nicest thing anyone has said to me in a long time is that my content is a means that you bond with your father. That means a lot to me. Thank you for saying that.

• 4:31Speaker 03

  Thank you, professor. Thanks to the whole team. Appreciate it.

• 4:33Scott Galloway?

  Next question.

• 4:34Speaker 04

  Hi, Prof G. I'm Mary Catherine from Irvine, California. And my question is, as a fellow parent, I would love to know what advice you are giving your two boys in regard to education after high school. Are you going to be pushing college or even post-secondary degrees? And you know, just more broadly, with your experience being highly educated and in the academia world, would just love to know what you want to pass on to your boys, what they will take away from your experience.

• 5:09Scott Galloway?

  Do you have kids, Mary Catherine?

• 5:11Speaker 04

  I do.

• 5:12Scott Galloway?

  How old?

• 5:13Speaker 04

  Four and almost a year.

• 5:15Scott Galloway?

  Oh, gosh, you're in the midst of it. That's an active household. So people talk a big game about letting their kids do what they want to do and alternatives to college and billionaires are funding people to drop out of college and some of our most famous entrepreneurs famously dropped out of college. I would be heartbroken if my kids didn't go to college. And I've fallen into the same trap I think a lot of parents fall into. And that is, I'm very focused on them getting into what I'll call an elite university. And I'm not proud of that, but I desperately want that. And I'm trying to inculcate in them a sense of academic achievement such that that is an option for them. As expensive as college is, if you get into a good school,

• 5:59Scott Galloway?

  it's still a fantastic ROI. Graduates earn on average around 65 grand a year, I think it is, and non-college grads are earning about 39K. And over the course of your lifetime, that delta gets even broader. People with college degrees on average make a multiple over their lifetime in terms of earnings versus non-college grads. The pressure we're putting on our kids is becoming immense because every year it gets harder and harder. I went to UCLA and UC Berkeley. The administrate at UCLA when I applied, Mary Catherine, I'm older than you, was 70%. And I had to apply twice. This year, the administrate will be 9%. I would bet the administrate to UC Irvine is low double digits, meaning that seven out of eight households in Orange County that would love to have their kid go to a

• 6:44Scott Galloway?

  great school, be an anteater, are going to get a rejection letter. And it's just heartbreaking. Spring used to be a nervous but joyous time for households to see where their kid was going to college. Now it's sort of the season of despair when you find out that your daughter or your son who played by the rules and did really well, isn't going to a university that they'd hoped to go to. We need alternative paths into a great middle-class lifestyle that don't involve college. We have to recognize that 2/3 of our kids will not end up with a traditional BA. But being very blunt, I would be heartbroken. But you have some time to figure this out, Mary Catherine. Oh, my gosh, the world is going to be so different in 15 years. Who knows how we're going to be learning. But congratulations

• 7:29Scott Galloway?

  on two kids and living in a wonderful part of the world. I appreciate your question, Mary Catherine.

• 7:34Speaker 04

  Thank you, Scott. I appreciate your time.

• 7:35Scott Galloway?

  Take care. We have one quick break before our final two questions. Stay with us.

• 7:44Scott Galloway?

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• 8:26Scott Galloway?

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• 8:45Scott Galloway?

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• 9:29Scott Galloway?

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• 9:56Scott Galloway?

  Welcome back. Question number three.

• 9:59Speaker 05

  Hey Prof G, I'm Prof P, a tenured professor at Syracuse University. Now, I've heard your thoughts on tenure, so try not to hold that against me today. But I'm here to ask you about the mental health crisis on college campuses. Recent data show that one in five students have a diagnosable mental illness, but more than three times that amount experience symptoms. Universities' response is often to open up a center and employ more counselors. In my opinion, these solutions are happening too far downstream. So how does academia need to respond to better meet the needs of students? And more importantly, how do we, as a society, head this off more upstream?

• 10:43Scott Galloway?

  Prof G, Prof P, this is like East Coast, West Coast rap wars here.

• 10:49Scott Galloway?

  And by the way, Prof P, you should be in HR recruiting. We have two outstanding colleagues, Caroline Chagrin and Claire Miller, who I believe are students of yours. Is that correct?

• 11:01Speaker 05

  Correct. Both former students. And I want to make sure that, you know, they're not giving you any trouble. If they are, make sure you tell me and I'll take care of it.

• 11:10Scott Galloway?

  Trust me, the trouble's on my end. Thanks for the thoughtful question. We struggle with this, as I'm sure you do at Syracuse every day. And that is, university administrators have unwittingly become mental health counselors. One in five American adults struggle with mental illness. It's one in three for people between the ages of 18 and 25. Jonathan Haidt, a colleague at NYU, says that the emerging crisis in mental health among teens is a function largely of two things. One, concierge or bulldozer parenting, where we use so many sanitary wipes on our kids' lives that they don't develop their own immunities. And then they get to Syracuse or NYU, get their first C, get their heart broken, get worried about getting kicked out, or can't compete, or used to being the best in their class, and all of a sudden they're not.

• 11:55Scott Galloway?

  And they literally can't handle that type of disappointment and kind of melt down. And then the second thing, especially among young women, is the black or the self-destroying process that is social media. Boys bully physically and verbally, girls bully relationally. And we put these nuclear weapons in their hands in the form of phones and social media. So what can be done? Gosh, I think it's a multi-dimensional thing. I think the first thing is to de-stigmatize it. And that is to say, okay, you catch a cold, you don't, you don't find it shameful. You don't, you aren't scared to talk about it. You aren't scared to go to your parents and say, I have a cold. I think there's some fantastic innovation online in terms

• 12:34Scott Galloway?

  of talk therapy or apps that help people reach out in real time to a therapist. There's some interesting innovation there. I think that insurance companies need to take a more proactive approach towards mental wellbeing and instead of it being disease state on our heels, get onto our toes. I proactively try and manage my mental health. I don't know if you do the same thing, Prof P. I have an acronym, SGAFA. I sweat, which resets me. I try and eat clean. Abstinence from alcohol and THC, which I love, but I find when I'm not right in the head or I feel a little bit off, it's better just to take a break. I find being around family very grounding. And affection, whether it's with

• 13:18Scott Galloway?

  my dogs or having my kids pile on me and watch TV, I find that that proximity to other beings and touch is really, really valuable. But I don't think there's a silver bullet here. I think it's a huge issue. I think universities play a role, but I think it probably starts earlier with parents, with the medical profession and just societal, removing the societal stigma. Anyways, Prof P, thanks for your good work and keep sending us those outstanding professionals. I feel as if we should give you some stock in Prof G Media in Section 4. You are, you're literally our one-man HR department. You're doing something right, Prof.

• 13:58Speaker 05

  I got more in line, ready, ready and waiting for you.

• 14:01Scott Galloway?

  We love it. All right. Thanks for your good work, Prof. Go, Orange Man.

• 14:04Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 14:05Scott Galloway?

  Next question.

• 14:06Speaker 06

  Hi, Prof G. My name is Maggie Walsh and I'm in New York City. I work in consulting, helping higher education institutions think about the future and improve their student experiences, often through the built environment. I'm also beginning my MBA at Stern part-time, starting in the fall. So my question is, if you had the chance to start fresh and build a brand-new institution inclusive of undergraduate education and intended to rival the greats, what would be its defining characteristics, thinking about its curriculum, its model, facilities or partnerships, its business model?

• 14:46Scott Galloway?

  Thanks, Maggie, and congratulations on getting into Stern. I think we need to de-Ermès higher ed and recognize that the goal of American higher ed isn't to take the top 1% and turn them into billionaires, but take the bottom 90% and turn us into millionaires. I don't think that these campuses need to be Ritz-Carlton, Brentwood, or the Four Seasons in Chapel Hill. I think they should be more cost-conscious. I think faculty should be held more accountable and be more efficient and productive. So broader admittance rates, lower costs, give unremarkables opportunity to have remarkable

• 15:29Scott Galloway?

  futures, as the University of California did for me. My startup, Section 4, is largely based on these principles. We're trying to give you 68% to 80% of the classes you're going to take at Stern. For 1% of the friction, you don't have to apply. You don't have to be a certain age. And 10% of the cost. The courses cost $700 versus if you take my course, it'll cost you $7,000. Now, having said that, it's still worth it. There's room for both those segments. The top 20 business schools are still a fantastic ROI, as expensive as they are. It's just, most people are not as fortunate as you. If you have kids, it's very hard to get an MBA.

• 16:10Scott Galloway?

  If you don't have the confidence or wherewithal to borrow six figures, it's hard to get an elite MBA. If you aren't willing to move to Soho, or Ann Arbor, or Palo Alto, it's hard to get an MBA. So I think of business schools being the most scarce product in the world. What do I mean by that? Global recognition. People recognize the transformative experience that you're about to register. It will change your life. It'll be wonderful. And yet, the total... Population of people who get to register that transformative experience is 8,000 people. So it's literally the most scarce product in the world. So I hate to use the word democratization, but more access, broader admissions rates, lower costs, and let's

• 16:52Scott Galloway?

  fall back in love with the unremarkables. Maggie's gonna be in Soho in the fall. Oh my gosh, an educational consultant going part-time to Stern. You should take time to stop and smell the roses. There are no roses in Soho. You should take time to stop and smell the kombucha and the overpriced lattes. I will see you on campus, Maggie. I will see you on campus. Thanks for the question.

• 17:17Speaker 06

  Thank you. It was great.

• 17:20Scott Galloway?

  That's all for this episode. Again, if you'd like to submit a question, please email a voice recording to [email protected].

• 17:37Scott Galloway?

  Our producers are Caroline Shager and Drew Burrows. Claire Miller is our assistant producer. If you like what you heard, please follow, download, and subscribe. Thank you for listening to The Prof G Show from the Vox Media Podcast Network. We will catch you on Thursday.

• 17:51Speaker 07

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