What Went Wrong with Capitalism? — with Ruchir Sharma

Ruchir Sharma, the Chairman of Rockefeller International and Founder and Chief Investment Officer of Breakout Capital, an investment firm focused on emerging markets, joins Scott to discuss his latest book, “What Went Wrong with Capitalism.” Follow Ruchir on X, @ruchirsharma_1. Algebra of Happiness: happiness awaits. Follow our podcast across socials @profgpod: Instagram Threads X Reddit Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:00Scott Galloway?

  Episode 305. 305 is the area code belonging to parts of Florida. True story, a man after killing his partner and then eating his partner, took his dog for a walk. How come you just knew that guy lived in Florida? Not a joke. Not a joke. Go, go, go!

• 1:29Scott Galloway?

  Welcome to the 305th episode of the Prop G Pod. I am still in the south of France, the Cannes Lion Festival. My Pivot co-host, Kara Swish, and I recorded live onstage at the Adweek House. You can hear that episode over the Pivot feed tomorrow. It was lovely. It was lovely. We had rosé after. It was very nice. Also, the Olympic torch came marching through. Does anyone care? Does anyone care about the Olympics anymore? I got invited to the Olympics and I said to my kids, "Hey, do you want to go to the Olympics?" And they're like, "What are the Olympics?" Literally, they're like, "Is it... do we have football tickets?" You know, soccer. And I'm like, "No." And they're like, "No, we're not interested. We don't want to hear... we don't want to see 100 hours of diving, swimming, and discus throwing." They've just... it's just... it's such an

• 2:11Scott Galloway?

  interesting case study, and I don't know the answer and why the Olympics have fallen so far and the World Cup has ascended. At such an incredible pace. Anyways, I'm making the rounds again. I like it here because people come up to me and say hi. And I purposely take my boys into town because I'm desperate for their affirmation. I want them to see that what I do actually get some recognition. So what are we doing? We're skipping our news headlines and busting right into our conversation with Ruchir Sharma, the chairman of Rockefeller International and founder and chief investment officer of Breakout Capital, an investment firm focused on emerging markets. We hear all about Ruchir's new book, What Went Wrong With Capitalism. Okay, Ruchir, where does this podcast find you?

• 2:51Speaker 04

  I'm here in New York in Midtown.

• 2:53Scott Galloway?

  Oh, nice. Well, let's bust right into it. In your new book, What Went Wrong With Capitalism, it's really a critique of capitalism, a capitalist critique of capitalism, as you say. So tell us, how has the system been ruined?

• 3:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think as I'm showing the book here, Scott, which is the fact that if you look at what's been happening in America, pretty much a lot of the Western world over the last few decades, is that we have progressively seen greater and greater government intervention in the economy. The suite of habits extends to just more than government spending. Government spending as a share of the economy has gone up from a century ago at just 3% when the government would do little more than deliver your mail, to about 36% today. But it's not just that. It is if you look at the regulatory state, we look at the impulse to bail out, the proclivity to manage

• 3:47Speaker 04

  the business cycle. Just across the board, we have seen a massive increase in government intervention in the economy with the consequence that it's destroyed the creative destructive fiber of the economy and productivity growth has been declining for the last few decades as well. So that's the point I try and make, which is that there are lots of perverse consequences that have come out of this systematic intervention in the economy. And those consequences include declining productivity, rising inequality, and also this feeling amongst most Americans

• 4:27Speaker 04

  that the system they have in place is not working. Nearly 70% of Americans want big economic change or want the current economic system to be toned down.

• 4:38Scott Galloway?

  So let's break that down. So it's impossible to deny the government's spending is not out of control, right? Seven trillion dollars on five trillion receipts. There's been unbelievable or staggering bailouts. I think what six, eight trillion dollar COVID relief. The only thing I would push back on or require or would double click on is this notion that we're overregulated. My sense is that some of the biggest industries are underregulated and we've had monopolies form. Your thoughts?

• 5:07Speaker 04

  Yeah. So again, here, let's look at the data, right? Which is the fact that America is introducing 3,000 new regulations a year, and that's gone up over time. And I argue in the book that in fact, regulation tends to be pro incumbent and pro big business. Because when you introduce new regulations, the existing people are able to game the system much better, get the regulations they want. And also, it makes it that much more expensive for new companies to come up. So therefore, it's one of the reasons I think that the number of startups in America has been declining. Right up until the pandemic,

• 5:48Speaker 04

  we saw a big decrease in the number of startups in America over the preceding two or three decades. So I would say that, yes, that we possibly can do with better antitrust regulation, which is what I think that you're alluding to. But I think that we sort of have to see that in every industry, otherwise, we have seen regulations increase, and that tends to hurt small and medium sized businesses from coming up. I know it from personal experience that the cost of, let's say, setting up a new fund is up 10 times over the last 20 years. So that makes it very difficult for someone looking to set up a new fund and breaking even compared to some large fund which is already there, has the resources, has the legal compliance departments to deal with all this.

• 6:34Scott Galloway?

  So it makes sense that certain industries such as financial services where more compliance, you know, Sarbanes-Oxley, whatever you want to say, it just gets harder and harder and harder to compete or to start up. My understanding is there were more new business applications or permits filed last year than in history. And two, it does seem though that some of our biggest industries have figured out a way to weaponize government or weaponize lobbyists. But what you're saying is the majority of industries are overregulated and this suppresses economic growth. Do I get that right?

• 7:11Speaker 04

  Absolutely. So I'd say, you know, like, and you're correct, that we did see like a spike up in new businesses or so over the last couple of years. But a lot of that was because during the pandemic, many had to shut down. So that's a bit of a churn which is going on. That's not been the true trend over the last thirty-two, forty years. So I think you have to keep that in perspective. And the second point, as you say, is that, yes, you know, there has been some deregulation. For example, there's been financial sector deregulation, which is why financial markets have exploded a lot. But I'd say for most industries in things like hospitality and things like restaurants and stuff, the number of regulations that any small business has to deal with has gone up a lot. And that shows up in all

• 7:53Speaker 04

  sorts of ways. For example, if you look at the number of lawyers in America, America's always had a very large legal population. The number of lawyers per capita is about the largest in the world. But again, that this growth has exploded in the last twenty years or so. So it's clearly in terms of who's benefiting and even in terms of lobbyists that you point out, which is that the number of lobbyists in Washington, they have been captured by all the big tech firms. The big tech firms dominate the number of new lobbyists in Washington or just total spend on lobbying.

• 8:30Scott Galloway?

  So in your book, you say in the 2010s, economies worldwide began to slow. Why did this happen and where are we today?

• 8:37Speaker 04

  Yeah, so productivity growth across the world has been slowing. And so I think that this is what in fact looks America a bit better, which is that the productivity growth in places like Europe has been slowing even more than what's happened in America. But the point I make in the book is that's partly because there the kind of state intervention they have, the regulatory phalanx that they have is much greater than even here in America. So that's not the right benchmark. But in general, I make the point that productivity growth has been slowing everywhere in the midst of what is otherwise such a powerful tech boom. And this is a trend that predates even the 2010s. It's been like on a decline apart from a, you know, like a brief surge in the late 1990s and early 2000s, when you had the internet revolution.

• 9:22Speaker 04

  Productivity growth has been generally slowing everywhere. And I deal with this productivity paradox in the book extensively, saying that what could be causing this, you know, the, all these arguments that it's because of mismeasurement and all, but that's not true because when, you know, like in the late 90s on the back of the internet boom, you did see a temporary surge. So I think that the reason economic growth has been slowing a lot has to partly do with demographics, that yes, population growth across the world has slowed down. That there's not much we can do about that. But as far as productivity growth is concerned, that too has slowed down significantly despite some tech innovations that have taken place. And now we are hanging our hat on AI boosting productivity.

• 10:05Speaker 04

  But I think that the, as I said, that the capitalist, creative, destructive fiber of the economy has been undermined because we're keeping alive so much dead wood. I mean, today, the number of zombie companies, as I say, that we have in the economy today by some measures is close to 20%. What do I mean by that? These are companies that are defined as firms that have not, or are not earning enough profits to even cover their interest payments for three years in a row, but keep going back to the market to refinance themselves. And when we do that, we sort of obviously undermine productivity growth in the economy.

• 10:44Scott Galloway?

  Yeah, I'm a big believer that you need churn for a robust economy and that the incumbents don't want churn. Just let me put forward a thesis and I'd like to get your response. That one reason why we've seen a decline in productivity is because of low corporate tax rates. And that is corporations have a memory. And when they can get 80 cents on the dollar out to a shareholder, they will choose to distribute earnings. Whereas if the tax rate is, say, 40%, and they're only going to get 60 cents out, and they get sort of a 40% reduction in the price of reinvesting in the company and plant property and equipment to grow the top line, that the incentive is to, or the hurdle rate for a go on investment

• 11:28Scott Galloway?

  is lower when tax rates are higher. Is there any truth to that?

• 11:33Speaker 04

  Well, the evidence again doesn't really back it up, right? Because if you look at what's happened in Europe, you know, wherever, you know, like the corporate tax rates have been higher, they haven't been able to sort of get higher productivity growth either. So I just don't see the evidence of that. Yes, I do feel the fact that the tax system could do with a big overhaul. I think we all agree with it. There's too much of a disparity in the way that a W two way journalist tax compared to how much, you know, like how much lower capital gains taxes are. So yeah, there are other distortions which I completely agree with. But I think that in the book, what I'm going to focus on is the fact that what happened to capitalism? What did the founders have in mind? Is the

• 12:13Speaker 04

  system today, what we have, capitalism? And why is so many young people in places like America disillusioned with the world capitalism? As I say in the book, that the surveys show that most young Americans, particularly Democrats, say they would rather have socialism than capitalism. That's a really big statement for a country that was the founder of real practical purposes, a capitalist system.

• 12:40Scott Galloway?

  We'll be right back.

• 12:44Scott Galloway?

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• 13:47Scott Galloway?

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• 16:05Scott Galloway?

  So let's assume that we agree, that most people agree, that we need to cut government spending. Where do you think we cut it?

• 16:11Speaker 04

  So that's the point, right? Which is that, how do you prioritize that? I mean, what has the Biden administration done? It has just doubled down on its spending. So now it's spending on everything. It's spending on industrial policy, it's spending on the CHIPS Act. And I think on an individual basis, when you look at government spending, we all think that, yes, you know, like in terms of, each one is justified. But I think that the thing is, like, we need to prioritize that. Don't we need entitlement reform? Should we really be spending on industrial policy because our priorities are different? If you want a welfare state, if you want to give people lots of, you know, like in terms of... Uh even cash benefits as some people wanna do. I think it's about prioritizing that what can we do realistically?

• 16:54Speaker 04

  And this thinking that debt and deficits don't matter because so many people for so long have been crying wolf about this, right? Which is that in New York, we have had these uh debt clocks which have, you know, been up for decades. And it's because nothing has happened, we think that what's the problem? We can go on spending this way and we can, and there is no real consequence to that. And what I try and sort of show here is that, yes, there is a consequence. One, that because of this, we have already seen a decline in terms of productivity because of the suite of government habits. And two, that now we are taking this just to a ridiculous extent that America used to run a budget deficit of around three percent of GDP for the last couple of decades.

• 17:39Speaker 04

  It was in line with other developed countries. Today, we're running that at six percent of GDP, way higher than any developed country in the world. And our public debt as a share of the overall economy has crossed hundred percent and is uh only behind that of Japan and Italy. And at this pace, we'll be higher than Italy by the end of the decade. So I think that the problem is this, which is that the argument that debt and deficits will cause a crisis seems very stale now because nothing has happened for, despite these crises warnings for so long. And there is this uh real confidence which almost bad uh borders on arrogance

• 18:21Speaker 04

  that because we are America, you know, the world will keep funding it. We have the world's main currency which people use, so they keep buying dollars and we'll never have a problem. You know, it it's that kind of complacency and arrogance about, you know, where else will the money go? It has to come here, which sort of bothers me and and we were not that way. Uh and in fact, I have, you know, still like a lot of great things about America. But I think that what's happened now is that we have just taken this to another extreme.

• 18:51Scott Galloway?

  So the Biden administration calls you and says, okay, give us two or three things, magic wand, you would want to see implemented right away in terms of policy or laws or tax policy. What would you, what would those two or three things be?

• 19:04Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'd say that in terms of, I know that nobody listens until they have a crisis. So I doubt I'm going to get that call, but still I think that, you know, let's think about it. I'd say that in terms of once, you know, like stuff is that think about every time you do a new regulation, who's it hurting and who's it benefiting? I mean, I'd put a freeze on that. I mean, Trump tried something like that, but it was a failure by the end because, yeah, you know, you couldn't focus on anything. So talked about not putting new regulation, but by the end of the administration, there were tons of new regulations which were going on. So I'd say that in terms of focusing, in terms of, okay, some tougher antitrust regulation,

• 19:45Speaker 04

  yes, I'm in favor of that. But the vast swath of regulations that are put in there really hurts small and mid-sized businesses. So think about, you know, putting a new, like new regulation. Two, you have to think about the debt and deficits, which is that don't have this callous attitude that nothing has happened. There's been no crisis. So we can keep running deficits. We are at full employment in the economy and we have a 6% budget deficit already. Imagine if you have a downturn, it'll be nine or 10%. So I would say that in terms of, you know, the open-ended CHIPS acts, industrial policy, we need to put a check on that. And I think that the other thing that I would say also is the fact that to make a very clear statement that we're not going to bail out companies at the slightest hint of trouble.

• 20:28Speaker 04

  I mean, you know, that's, that statement needs to goes out because today you speak to people in private, in the private equity world or other places, there is this implicit assumption that, you know, what the hell, we'll give it a punt and if it doesn't work, yeah, I mean, you know, the government's there to back us out. So that sort of thinking has to go away. So these are just broad points, I would say, at this stage that need to think about.

• 20:53Scott Galloway?

  Moral hazard. So, Ruchir, you have done a great deal of work on India. Can you give us, I would love for you just to sort of give us the Cliff Notes on the Indian economy and what you think the prospects are for the Indian economy over the next several years?

• 21:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, so in fact, I begin this book, like in the prologue, by speaking about my journey from India, because as you say, I was born there and I, and India was a truly socialist economy when I was born then, yeah, in the nineteen, in the mid nineteen seventies. And so I saw what socialism could do, but fortunately for India, after especially it faced an economic crisis in nineteen ninety-one, it's progressively been getting freer, progressively been moving up the indices of economic freedom. And so therefore, you know, like I, I've been much more optimistic about the economy as that's happened. But my favorite line about India that I came up with a few years ago is that this is a country that consistently disappoints the optimists and the pessimists.

• 21:51Speaker 04

  So there's a lot of optimism I have, but I would keep it in check to know that this is a pretty complex country. It's not a homogeneous country like China, which moves in one direction. It's very heterogeneous, very diverse. So you've got different things and different, you know, places which play itself out. But generally, I remain optimistic. I see that the trajectory is positive. And of course, we can't not have this conversation and speak about the landmark election result. And, you know, that was a very hopeful sign, which is the fact that it's a country, you know, which believes in its democratic tradition. And I think that that's something which also helps in the long term, because this is a lot of research that I've done, that, you know, like under Modi, there was a real fear

• 22:34Speaker 04

  that India was moving towards an authoritarian direction. Now, you'll argue, maybe that's good for its economy, because you're moving in an authoritarian direction and you can take tougher decisions. But the research I've done on this is the fact that under authoritarian regimes, you end up getting either getting very good economic outcomes for a while, or you end up getting disastrous economic outcomes, because there's no one to tell you, you know, when you go wrong. And I think that there was a risk that India was moving in that direction.

• 23:02Speaker 04

  More checks and balances here and typically over time democracies tend to compound much better in terms of growth rates than authoritarian regimes do so I feel relatively optimistic about India yes there'll be some sort of bitter fights politically after the election result last week where the opposition feels emboldened but I think that you know it's moving in the right direction the only thing I'll keep in check is expectation that this is no next China which is going to grow at nine or 10% it's going to be more like a six seven percent type growth rate at best than we've seen India for the foreseeable future.

• 23:38Scott Galloway?

  So now do UK I live in London and I would just be curious you obviously spent a lot of time thinking about you know how your title ten rules for successful nations and breakout nations in pursuit of the next economic miracle let's assume this is not going to be an economic miracle I think that ship has sailed but what what rules are they following or breaking or not adhering to when we talk about successful nations?

• 24:04Speaker 04

  Well unfortunately I think that UK doesn't rank well you know because as you rightly say that I I maintain this ranking of these you know like of all these countries and you know where they rank on these various metrics and in the Anglo Saxon world of course the country that has been doing the worst which I think you know like a bit of a surprise and I wrote about that is Canada that's been the worst really of the last you know 10 15 years and then next comes UK then Australia and the US compared to these countries has been doing relatively better and that's the irony of it you know in terms of all the problems we've spoken about in America but in terms of all the problems we spoke about in America in terms of are much more severe in places like UK that in terms of you know what it's been doing with its deficits although America now is overtaking it in terms of you know what it's been doing in the number of zombie companies so I'd say that in that regard UK in fact ranks even worse than America on most metrics.

• 25:04Scott Galloway?

  So isn't, it's really fascinating, Australia, Canada and the UK not doing well. So take them add in the US, aren't we all guilty of overspending, capitalism on the way, socialism on the way down, cronyism, bloated government, bailouts. But the difference is the US has AI and a tech sector that just creates so much economic value and draws capital from the rest of the world that at least props up or wallpapers over our problems more so than those other three nations. What do you think?

• 25:40Speaker 04

  Absolutely correct. Yeah. So that's the, that's my summary, that, you know, which is the fact that, you know, like, it just pains me that in terms of the fact that I don't even compare America to these other countries because America is still the beacon for the world, right? It's still the largest economy that everyone looks up to, to see as to what is America doing. And the American brand of capitalism unfortunately has been dented. But you're right that these Anglo-Saxon other economies that you pointed out are arguably in worse shape and doing things even worse than America is. And America, as you point out, has the success of the tech engine there. But again, it's slightly concerning to me that the, like in America, the domination

• 26:23Speaker 04

  is getting so concentrated that the value is being created, but it's been created in just very few select companies, you know? And I think that that is a real problem.

• 26:34Scott Galloway?

  And communities.

• 26:35Speaker 04

  That's so big.

• 26:36Scott Galloway?

  Yes. Yeah. It is really striking. What do you think about the notion of, so the one thing we didn't talk about that I think plays a big role in all of this is immigration policy. Compare and contrast different immigration policies across the nations you look at. And what do you think is sort of, if you will, the ideal, if there is an ideal immigration policy, and what does it indicate in terms of America's immigration policy?

• 27:01Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think that, you know, as far as America's concerned, even though it's been a big problem in America and it's a big political issue, America's at least been better at assimilating immigrants than a lot of European countries in that regard. And I think that countries like, you know, Australia and all, you know, have been, you know, like, pretty good in terms of as well. So I'd say that generally here, the Anglo-Saxon world has been better than Europe in terms of assimilation of immigrants. But again, as I said, that, you know, what is good economics is not always, you know, what's good politics, which is that even last year, like I was, I pointed out that immigration

• 27:41Speaker 04

  is what really helped countries like America avoid a recession and bring inflation down much more than in other countries did last year. But the problem is the fact that it's become such a political issue about tearing apart the social fabric and stuff, that what is good economics in obvious terms is not good politics. And I don't see that changing. So I'd say that, yes, I think that immigration is out of control for many people out here in America. And so we're going to clamp down on that regardless, I think, of what happens in November. But in general, I would say America and the Anglo-Saxon countries like Australia have done a better job at assimilating immigrants compared to European countries

• 28:26Speaker 04

  like France.

• 28:28Scott Galloway?

  Well, let me say something that's, I don't know, is wrought with emotion. Is it that we've done a better job of assimilating or we attract a different type of immigrant?

• 28:41Speaker 04

  Well, it could be both. I think a combination of both, right? Which is that in terms of what's happening. But I just look at it more from a assimilation. But then you start getting into cultural issues in terms of who's coming and what's happening. And that just gets a very slippery slope in terms of looking at immigration in that regard.

• 28:58Scott Galloway?

  So looking at all the economies in the world, what two or three economies are you most bullish on in terms of? You mentioned that Canada is doing really poorly, the UK is doing really poorly. America, you would argue, is kind of like, it sounds like average is slightly above average. Any other role models for, you know, I think of certain countries in Southeast Asia, I think of Singapore, where we can look at the way they've managed their economy and think this is, this is the role model?

• 29:25Speaker 04

  Well, I think, yeah, I think it depends on the timeframe, but I think that the, you know, like the economies that are, you know, have been sort of good. Again, which is the economy that's doing the best in Europe these days? It's Greece, right? Which is that this is a country which till 10 years ago was like an example of a complete, yeah, if I can say so, a basket case in terms of that. But just look at how well Greece has come back. It's booming now. It was again forced. This is what crisis does. It is one silver lining of a crisis. It's that it's the only time when governments reform or change things is when you're in a crisis. So Greece runs out of money. It's on the verge of default and then you end up getting a lot of reforms. So Greece, I think, has, you know, been a comeback story.

• 30:08Speaker 04

  In fact, in general, the club met countries of late have been doing better than their continental peers. But Greece is an example of that. Then secondly, I would point to is a country, like in Eastern Europe in general. I'd say Poland is a shining example of that, which is that it's a country which I think is next classified to becoming a developed country. Remember that in the world today, there are more than 200 nations. Only 40 or so are classified as developed countries. Everybody else is classified as emerging and many of them, from Brazil to Mexico, have been emerging forever, right? So, but I'd say that it's been a while since a major nation joined the ranks of the developed countries.

• 30:49Speaker 04

  I think the next one to do so could be Poland, which is on the brink of, you know, getting a per capita income of, you know, $20,000 or so, which makes it like a developed country. Again, a lot, it's done right from having a very competitive manufacturing sector, not too many flashy billionaires. And in general, I'd say that The election result in Poland last year sort of also took away some political risk because it's a much more cooperative government that it have in place vis a vis the EU and the European Union helped to give it some pretty strong institutions. So I'd say that like I feel relatively optimistic about these countries outside of the core of Europe from Greece to Poland as you know, like for different reasons.

• 31:33Speaker 04

  One's a comeback star and the other one's been a consistent star in the post-communist world.

• 31:40Scott Galloway?

  And just before you go, we'd be remiss if we didn't ask you about China, your thoughts?

• 31:45Speaker 04

  Well, I've been bearish on China for a while now because I, you know, in terms of what's been happening towards both the two pillars of growth really, which is that it's been relying a lot on, you know, like when China boomed, it had great demographics. And of course, when the boom slowed down, it could still rely on taking on more and more debt to keep going. Those engines are now down. So I feel that China is in a secular decline. On a fundamental basis, I don't see China growing at a rate of more than two or three percent for the foreseeable future. So I'd say that, yeah, for now, it seems that the risk of a blow up in China has, you know, sort of been papered over because they've again done what it takes to keep the economy afloat.

• 32:29Speaker 04

  But the problem in China is the fact that they can't get away from the basic notion that there is no country in the world which is able to grow rapidly or even grow when it has a negative population growth rate. That headwind is just very hard to overcome. And then second, obviously, is the debt issue in China, where China has, you know, took on so much debt over the last decade because it ambitiously wanted to keep its growth rate up. But now, you know, it's being forced to pay back that debt in a way, you know, with the property sector and all, which took a lot of that debt in the doghouse. So I feel that, yeah, that China may not have a blow up or a crisis, but it's sort of going the way where the growth rate keeps slipping and sliding.

• 33:13Speaker 04

  And, you know, two or three percent is the growth rate for China, which is a far cry from where it was a decade ago.

• 33:20Scott Galloway?

  Ruchir Sharma is chairman of Rockefeller International and founder and chief investment officer of Breakout Capital, an investment firm focused on emerging markets. He moved to Rockefeller in 2022 after a 25-year career at Morgan Stanley Investment Management, where he was head of emerging markets and chief global strategist. Ruchir is also the author of five books, including The 10 Rules of Successful Nations and Breakout Nations: In Pursuit of the Next Economic Miracles. His latest book, What Went Wrong with Capitalism, is out now. He joins us from the greatest city in the world, New York City. Rashir, thank you very much. Really enjoyed this conversation.

• 33:58Speaker 04

  Thanks, Gar. Thank you for having me.

• 34:02Scott Galloway?

  We'll be right back.

• 34:06Speaker 00

  Here's your report.

• 34:07Speaker 01

  Oh, thanks, Jane. I wish I could hire someone just like you.

• 34:10Speaker 00

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• 34:26Speaker 01

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• 34:36Speaker 05

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• 35:06Scott Galloway?

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• 36:22Scott Galloway?

  The most famous study on happiness, actually, every study on happiness, we never get data that's this clean across geographies, cultures, income levels, shows the same thing. If on the Y-axis, you have happiness, and on the X-axis, you have age, happiness is a smile. 0 to 25, Star Wars, prom, making out. 25 to 45 are what I call the shit gets real years. Life is hard. Money troubles, relationships, someone you love a great deal gets sick and die. I mean, life just hits you in the fucking face. It really does. You get beaned in the face. And you think, wow, this is harder than I thought. And what I can tell you is a lot of people out there are feeling the same way. And if you're a good person and you work hard, I'm not just saying everything will work out. You need to make sure you're not stuck, right? You're still working.

• 37:07Scott Galloway?

  Every night, you're saying, what are the three, four things I gotta get done tomorrow? You're getting up, you're trying, you're showing up, you're asking others for help, right? You're expressing your emotions. And then, and then, when you're in your 40s and 50s, something wonderful happens. And that is you start to take, I don't know, you start to find joy in the most mundane things, nature, food, your friendships. So what I would tell you is if you're struggling in your 30s and 40s, I'm not suggesting just lay back and everything's going to work out. That's, that's bullshit. But what I can tell you is that for the majority of people, it does get better. And again, if you're in your 30s and things are tough, you're kind of where you should be.

• 37:48Scott Galloway?

  And what I would tell you is to keep on keeping on, that life does get better, that happiness waits for you.

• 37:55Scott Galloway?

  This episode was produced by Caroline Shager and Jennifer Sanchez is our associate producer. And Drew Burrows is our technical director. Thank you for listening to the Prof G Pod from the Vox Media Podcast Network. We will catch you on Saturday for No Mercy, No Malice, as read by George Hahn. And please follow our Prof G Markets pod wherever you get your pods for new episodes every Monday and Thursday. Please, if you can right now and you enjoyed the show, go to Prof G Markets and subscribe.

• 38:23Speaker 06

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• 38:53Speaker 07

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