Conversation with Congressman Dean Phillips — Raising the Foundation for Americans

Dean Phillips, a third-term Democratic Congressman from Minnesota, and now a Democratic candidate for President of the United States, joins Scott to discuss his decision to run against President Biden and the key issues he’ll be focused on throughout his campaign. Scott opens with his thoughts on WeWork’s bankruptcy and niche AI bots. Algebra of Happiness: demonstrate vulnerability. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Scott Galloway?

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• 0:48Speaker 01

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• 1:18Scott Galloway?

  Episode 275. I-275 is a 16-mile-long interstate highway serving the Tampa Bay area. In 1975, Jaws was released and became considered the first summer blockbuster, and Bill Gates and Paul Allen founded Microsoft. No joke, I rented Jaws on VHS and played it backwards. It's actually the heartwarming story of a shark that helps disabled people put their lives back together.

• 1:44Scott Galloway?

  Go, go, go!

• 1:54Scott Galloway?

  Welcome to the 275th episode of the Prop G Pod. In today's episode, we speak with Dean Phillips, a third-term Democratic Congressman from Minnesota, and now a Democratic candidate for President of the United States. We discuss with Representative Phillips his decision to run against President Biden, as well as the key issues he'll be focused on throughout his campaign. So, bottom line, bottom line, he's 54, he seems very thoughtful, and he's a Democrat. And so, I'm a big fan. I think we need a full-body-contact primary. What's the problem right now? What's the problem? We're playing not to lose. We're taking someone, an individual, who in my opinion, well, could, would, and could go down as the greatest president, or one of the great presidents in history.

• 2:38Scott Galloway?

  Lowest inflation in the G7, walked us back from COVID, created more jobs in two and three-quarter years than any president in four years, is handling the Middle East well. And if he decided it's time for a new generation, biology waits for no man, I'm opening it up. I think he'd go down as one of the greatest presidents in history, and I worry that he is going to go down as a Ruth Bader Ginsburg, or a Senator Feinstein, who is just seen as a narcissist who put his own desires and needs ahead of the countries. So, I'm a big fan and want to bring more attention and sunlight to anybody who decides on the Democratic ticket to run for president, such that we have a full-body-contact competition

• 3:17Scott Galloway?

  that produces the most viable, robust, tensile-strength candidate who can beat President Donald Trump. Anyways, what's happening? Back in London for the week. It's wonderful to be back with my family. I have trouble with jet lag. There's something about it that sets off my amengala, whatever that part of your brain that makes you an asshole. That is definitely flared up. And also, the weather, I don't know if you've heard this, the weather in London is not great. It's not great. I am not a morning person, so by the time I get my shit together, it's easy nine, 10, and all of a sudden, it feels like the sun starts to go down. So, that's a difficult one for me, and I didn't realize how much the sun impacted my mood.

• 4:02Scott Galloway?

  And let's be honest, did Doug- Needs all the good mood and pigs' ears he can handle. Pigs' ears, the universal treat. If you ever want a dog to just, to just decide you're the bomb, give it a pig's ear. These things are so disgusting and, and that, and there's something called a lamb's lung supposedly. They go ape shit for anyways, don't know how I got to pigs' ears. WeWork has officially filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy and it's about time. Back in 2019, the firm was operating on an illusion of a $47 billion valuation. I took one look at the prospectus and tore apart my newsletter, No Mercy, No Malice. We'll spare you the details, not really, give you a few details.

• 4:43Scott Galloway?

  You can go read it on profgalloway.com and search for WeWTF. But anyway, it became clear to the markets that this firm was an absolute shit show, consensual hallucination, ridiculous jazz hands, where we had decided we were falling in love with anyone with long flowing hair who could use a bunch of fancy, I mean, the, literally the prospectus said to elevate, our mission is to elevate the world's consciousness. They had something called community-based EBITDA, which was basically, they didn't include real estate costs. They subtracted the real estate costs out when attempting to calculate a term that usually means some reasonable facts, some way of profits. This thing was so ridiculous. After working my ass off for 30 years, I was an overnight success with that,

• 5:28Scott Galloway?

  that blog post, but the whole thing kind of unraveled. And to a certain extent, you could argue that it was a victory for the markets because the fire door of the markets, the public market slammed shut and said, sorry, we're not going to let you force this total unicorn feces on tourists in the unicorn zoo. And institutional investors lost a lot of money. Now, a lot played into this. Adam Newman totally played Masayoshi Son who didn't want to lose face. And rather than declare bankruptcy, he was held hostage by Adam Newman, who ultimately Masayoshi Son blinked and bought Newman's stakeout for over a billion dollars, such that US vultures wouldn't come in and seize a bankrupt company. And that would have been a loss of face for Masayoshi Son. So he poured more billions into the thing.

• 6:12Scott Galloway?

  And now it is definitely kind of the end of an era. What is this signal the end of? Specifically, Amazon and Netflix retrain the markets to value growth over profits for much longer. And that is as long as you keep adding subscribers, as long as you keep growing, sales year on year will continue to bid your stock up. And Adam Newman got wind of this, or decided, okay, I'm going to go crazy with this, and I'm going to throw so much money, I'm going to, I'm going to give you $100 worth of coworking space and only charge you $60. That way, everyone will see it as an amazing offering. And it was. The refracted glass, the IPA beer, the community, you basically got $100 worth of desk for 60 bucks, grew fast, and kept raising more and more capital and creating a company that,

• 6:56Scott Galloway?

  unlike a tech company that, once it hits breakeven, if you will, starts to get profitable. Let's talk about gross margins. The gross margins at Amazon were about 20% in the early days. And that's not a lot, but at some point, if you have enough sales, that 20% of gross margin will cover your fixed costs and you start to make money. The fixed costs or the gross margins at something like Facebook are probably 80 or 90 points. It's not an expensive product to deliver incrementally, which means, once you get to a few billion dollars in revenue, it becomes massively profitable. But here was the problem at WeWork. Every time they grew their business by $100 in revenue, they grew their costs by 150 bucks in revenue. There was no economies of scale, there was no scale at all. It wasn't a digital product.

• 7:37Scott Galloway?

  It had negative gross margins, meaning that the faster they grew, the more money they were hemorrhaging. The New York Times reported that in June, WeWork was renting nearly 20 million square feet of office space, which was more than any other company in the US. It's had major management shakeups, has laid off thousands of people, closed a number of locations, seen its stock fall off a cliff, and faces long-term lease obligations of more than $13 billion. So what happens here? What happens here? With hotels, there's kind of this common dictum that the third owner makes money. The first person is someone with a big ego that wants to own the Four Seasons in Manhattan and finances it and builds it and hemorrhages money. And then the bank takes it back and they sell it to someone else, and the bank, or

• 8:22Scott Galloway?

  whoever they sell it to, doesn't know what they're doing. And then finally, a hotelier comes in and buys the thing at 40 cents on the dollar and makes, makes money. Usually, it's the third owner. I think the third owner of WeWork, if you consider Adam Newman was sort of the first, then it was a new management team, kind of the second. I think the third owner here, and that is the people who bring this out of bankruptcy, are going to make money. How are they going to do that? What I would do is buy the bonds on the cheap, go in, reorganize the company, go to the most profitable ones and say, okay, under the auspices of bankruptcy, you can now renegotiate the lease and we're going to a franchise model. You're going to pay a six, a 12% of top line revenue. You're going to get the brand, you're going to get the tech platform, the marketing. When people come and type in, uh, WeWork Barcelona, we'll send them directly to your site and essentially move to a Four Seasons like model.

• 9:07Scott Galloway?

  The Four Seasons only owns, I think, one of its hotels, their flagship in Toronto. Which is lovely, which is lovely, uh, but I think they should move to this model. And also bankruptcy was basically tailor made for retail concepts. And at the end of the day, this is retail. Why? Because they can get out of those $13 billion in leases. They can cherry pick which WeWorks are still profitable and renegotiate those and just exit the ones that aren't profitable. So this could really, under the cloud cover of bankruptcy, the equity gets wiped out and that's fine. The common stockholders who bought into this spec and that this thing was ever going to work, it wiped out. Sucks to be a grown up and capitalism. The debt holders probably only get pennies on the dollar, but it'll be converted to equity and under the auspices of bankruptcy, they'll be able to get out of those leases, keep the ones they want.

• 9:51Scott Galloway?

  And I think WeWork version 3.0 is actually, uh, going to work. Just a thought, just a thought. Okay, moving on to some AI news. AI, what is AI? Haven't heard a lot about that. ChatGPT now registers 100 million weekly users, cementing its place as one of the fastest growing technologies in history. During OpenAI's first developer conference earlier this week, CEO Sam Altman announced the release of GPT-4 Turbo. Boo, Turbo. This new AI model can rely on knowledge of world events up until April of 2023 before, I think it was only, the previous version could only, will only track up until January of 2022. So that includes, I guess it includes information about Barbie and, and, uh, Taylor Swift. Anyways, this new model can also, has anything happened other than Taylor Swift in the last year? Let me think. Not much.

• 10:36Scott Galloway?

  This new model can also summarize up to 300 pages at a time versus the previous 3,000 word limit. I guess that's interesting. If you put in a 300 page book and say, distill the book for me, or look at the new AI executive order and distill it down to a memo for me, or tell me what are the best and worst parts of this. It can absorb, absorb more and come back with more thoughtful answers. OpenAI also announced a new service for individuals and small businesses to easily create their own personalized bots. This service is only available to those on the ChatGPT plus subscription plan, which is $20 a month. So instead of the months and thousands of dollars we spent developing prof G dot AI, they've said, hey, for 20 bucks a month, you can do it. Well, it looks like we should have waited a little longer. What does it mean for the company?

• 11:18Scott Galloway?

  It means they're moving from kind of an app to a platform where they'll be the underlying engine, almost like the app store of other people's AI apps. I think this is really powerful. I think this is a well-run company. I'll note in the developer conference that 2 million developers use the platform, including more than 92% of Fortune 500 companies. I think this stuff is very exciting. In other news in AI, that's less exciting. Elon Musk, relatively new startup, XAI, announced a chatbot called Grok that allegedly will have a rebellious streak and answer, open quote, spicy close quote questions that other chat models reject. Elon said that Grok's access to Twitter's information will be a massive advantage over other models. Like, I have a bias against Elon Musk. I don't like the guy.

• 12:03Scott Galloway?

  I think he's a terrible role model for young men, but I think this is a good idea. One, Twitter is sort of the pulse of news and society. It's become a pulse that has terrible arrhythmia, specifically of violence or of, is it violence fear? Probably not, of hate and dysfunction and just general weirdness and trolling and, I don't know. Is this, it's, I describe Twitter as the sewage system of a sewer system, but it does have a ton of quick, real-time data. So I would imagine that is good input into an LLM. Also, also to his credit, I think he's identified a white space. What is that? That is that the current LLMs are much more anodyne.

• 12:46Scott Galloway?

  I learned that word from my podcast co-host Kara Swisher, and that they're sort of bland, generic, politically correct. And whenever you type in something, it comes back with all sorts of conditions. It doesn't want to offend anybody. My guess is that people on these LLMs have prompted it, if you will, or programmed it such that it's unlikely to say anything that off-color. And I think a lot of people will enjoy and receive well, something that is more, I don't know, R-rated, red pill. Provocative, tell it like it is, not be afraid to use foul language, be more terse, more blunt, say no, you're wrong, or whatever it might be, or have more of a sense of humor. Anyways, we'll see where Grok goes. But in the meantime, in the meantime, Twitter continues

• 13:31Scott Galloway?

  to be the worst impulse purchase in history. Supposedly, sales or revenues are down 40 to 60%, something like that. So it'll be interesting to see if Grok is able to, I don't know, inspire sort of a recovery in the value of Twitter, which has probably lost all of its equity value so far. We will see, we will see. AI, there's going to be a ton of these LLMs. I think they're going to go niche. I would be shocked if they didn't have LLMs focused on different sectors in the finance sector, whether it's distressed credit, or growth equity, what have you. I think that there's going to be a ton of niches here. It's going to kind of evolve, I would imagine, as retail evolved. In that there'll be sort of Walmart and Amazon, call it, might be kind of Microsoft. And would it be Google? Would they be number two? Shit, I don't know. It's probably Microsoft, or

• 14:16Scott Galloway?

  maybe OpenAI. Anyways, and then there'll be specialty retail. There'll be a Lululemon of AI, and that might focus on a specific niche sector. How do you, how do you compete against the big guys? The specific crowds out the general, and you say, we're not going to sell every toaster, we're going to sell the best two. Do a lid in Electrolux, because I have better taste in kitchenware electronics than you do. See above, William Sonoma. I think you're going to have a lot of niches here. And a lot of companies are going to use AI to complement their offerings. I don't know if you saw Expedia's results. Expedia just crushed it. Their stock soared. And I think some of that is they're starting to implement different kind of core AI functionality to make the search for the ideal vacation more robust, faster, more creative, if you will. But I could be wrong. We'll see. We'll

• 15:01Scott Galloway?

  see. All right. Do a lid toaster. Daddy likes his toast in the morning. That's right. Keeps him regular. Actually, it's the zacapa I drank the night before that keeps me more than regular, if you know what I mean. We'll be right back for our conversation with Congressman Dean Phillips.

• 15:22Scott Galloway?

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• 16:22Scott Galloway?

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• 17:39Scott Galloway?

  Welcome back. Here's our conversation with Dean Phillips, a third-term Democratic congressman from Minnesota and a Democratic candidate for President of the United States. Representative Phillips, where does this podcast find you?

• 17:50Speaker 02

  Finds me in Manchester, New Hampshire, on the campaign trail.

• 17:54Scott Galloway?

  I think you've sort of burst onto the scene. Before we dig into it, can you give us the headline news at a Cliff Notes on Representative Phillips, your background, points of inspiration, things that have kind of shaped your worldview, if you will?

• 18:05Speaker 02

  Yeah. Lost my dad in Vietnam when I was six months old. That's how my life began. My dad already grew up poor in St. Paul, Minnesota, couldn't afford college, so earned an ROTC scholarship to go to the University of Minnesota, was sent to Vietnam right before I was born, got to here and I think see the US moon landing in July of 1969, and was killed in a helicopter crash just a few days later. And my mom was 24 and widowed, and we moved in with my great-grandparents for the first two and a half years of my life, and that's how it began. And when I was about three, my mom met and remarried a remarkable man, Eddie Phillips, who adopted me and brought me into an extraordinary family,

• 18:47Speaker 02

  business, philanthropy, great character and principles, and I've lived on both sides of advantage. Joined our family business after graduating from Brown University, getting my MBA at the University of Minnesota. Grew up in a family business that said business is a means to an end. The end is not to aggregate as much wealth as possible, rather to share it. And my great-grandfather told me regularly, said, Dean, money is like manure. If you stack it up, it stinks, and if you spread it out, it fertilizes. And that was our family ethos. It's my ethos in Congress now. It's how I grew up, and I feel quite deeply, it's one of the great tragedies in the United States right now, the aggregation of wealth.

• 19:29Speaker 02

  Ran our family business, built Belvedere Vodka, sold it to LVMH, then to Lenti Gelato, sold it to Unilever. By the way, very similar templates, if you will, two big brands that compete each other to the bottom. In the case of vodka, it was Absolut and Stoli. We introduced Belvedere above them and did very well. In the ice cream business, it was Ben and Jerry's and Haagen Dazs. As they fought to the bottom, we introduced Talenti above. And I'll get to that analogy in politics because we got Democrats and Republicans doing the same thing. Needless to say, watched the 2016 election with my daughters, my family, and was shocked by the outcome. Woke up the next morning, my 16-year-old was in her bedroom crying. My 18-year-old at college, in her dorm room, crying.

• 20:12Speaker 02

  And I sat at the breakfast table, and I promised them I would do something. I raised them to be participants, not observers. And we all reached that moment, Scott, where you got to stand up, and I did. And I looked around, I saw a district in Minnesota in which I lived that had not elected a Democrat since 1958. And the man who I would eventually take on had won by 14 points. But I did it against all odds. It was the most joyful journey of my entire life. And we won by 12 points, joined Congress in 2019. And that's where this story begins. Because what I found on day one in the United States Congress is the very root of what's wrong in our country and in the world.

• 20:52Speaker 02

  You know, systemic segregation as practiced by some of the most powerful people in the world who do not have our best interests in mind. And that's why I find myself right here today with you.

• 21:03Scott Galloway?

  So you've been in Congress for a short period, a relatively short period, four years. What do you, what do you identify as sort of your crowning achievements there? Or what are you most proud of in terms of your legislative accomplishments to date?

• 21:15Speaker 02

  Building relationships. I mean, it sounds so old-fashioned and maybe insignificant, but it is indeed, I think, the great disaster in our country. Certainly the great disaster in our political system. And that's what I focus on. When I mentioned my first day in Congress, I really thought that we would get to Congress, all the new Democrats or Republicans, sit down at a table, get to know each other, have a dinner, tell our life stories, do a ropes course maybe, and build some trust. But Kevin McCarthy and Nancy Pelosi had different ideas. We were on different buses, going to different events. And what I call the systemic segregation started immediately. And if you can't build a human relationship... You can't do anything. That's true in business. It's true in politics. We spend our

• 21:58Speaker 02

  time on screens, increasingly separate. And so if I have a superpower, if I have a mission, it's to break down those barriers. President Trump invited me to the White House soon after I was elected in 2019 to help solve the shutdown, which he had started. I was one of eight at the table, and we did it. That's what the problem solvers, that's what we do every day. We're the workhorses, not the show horses, which is why I have to introduce myself to 300 million Americans awfully quickly. Most important achievement was probably the Paycheck Protection Program Flexibility Act. During COVID, businesses were failing. People were about to be laid off. The PPP program was a good startup, but it did not work effectively. And who did I work with? Chip Roy, of all people.

• 22:42Speaker 02

  And I was ranked, I think, the first, most bipartisan member of Congress in the last Congress. Number two right now, Chip is probably 428. But an example of what's possible, when you just sit down with people who see things differently. That's what I find is the joy in Congress. So Chip and I passed that bill. President Trump signed it into law. He did not invite me to the signing ceremony. Chip went to it. But Chip gave me that signing pen, which sits in my office to this day, because we achieved what most thought would be impossible, which is helping people during a really critical time. But back to what I care about, it's getting people together. And if we don't literally, Scott, repair, we don't repair relationships, this country, it doesn't matter what your most important issue is, we're not going to get it done. Just look at Congress. We're rewarding the

• 23:27Speaker 02

  wrong behavior with the wrong people at a time of extraordinary consequence.

• 23:32Scott Galloway?

  You tweeted that your campaign will be about four main things. Walk us through those four things.

• 23:37Speaker 02

  Well, let me start about, start with repair. You know, I'm running, by the way. Let me tell you why I'm running, which is, I care deeply about this country. I know everybody listening right now does as well. The fact that we have millions of people around the world that still, that still want to come to our country. Nobody's clamoring to get into Russia, or China, or Iran. They're trying to get here for a reason. And I'm terribly concerned about what will happen in the next election, because the fact of the matter is, I respect President Biden, but he's going to lose to Donald Trump. And that's the truth. So that's one. Number two is repair. If we do not engage with one another, if we don't celebrate differences, political differences, racial differences, religious differences, we have failed as human beings, let alone as Americans.

• 24:22Speaker 02

  That is one of my core, core priorities. Economic suffering, you know, as a business leader, as someone who has built businesses, shared success, recognize what is so easy to do relative to policy, to encourage more capital provision, to raise the very economic foundation in America so that people have a foundation to pursue the American dream. You know, I know how to do that. It's possible. And our policies right now literally are working against people. You know, life is unaffordable. Healthcare, we don't have healthcare, we have sick care. It's completely a disaster. We're the only country in the world that does it like this. We pay twice as much for care as any nation in the world. Our outcomes are mid-pack. We pay three, four, or five times more for pharmaceuticals than any nation in the world,

• 25:06Speaker 02

  and we reward the wrong behavior, fee for service, instead of investing in health. And I can talk about that later as well. And I think we need a more comprehensive foreign policy as well. I serve on the Foreign Affairs Committee. I'm the ranking member of the Middle East Subcommittee. It's a time of great consequence, of course, in the Middle East for reasons we all know. How we handle the war in Ukraine, how we handle the circumstances in the Middle East, how we handle our relationship with China and our adversaries is a great consequence. And my contention, Scott, is that President Biden, who has spent his entire professional career in Washington, 50 years, it was, I was three years old when he became a senator. If we Americans think that doing more of the same with the same people, the same systems

• 25:49Speaker 02

  and the same structures is the path to success, I just see it differently. And then lastly, you ask about my priorities, is to fundamentally change how the executive branch of the US federal government operates. I want to see zero-based budgeting. Right now, we simply layer more and more money on every program, every agency, every year. I want to have a cabinet that represents the very best and brightest. I don't care about your politics, I care about your principles, people who know to manage organizations, people who prioritize customer service. I will appoint a common sense czar, a gun violence czar, and I will include a seat at the cabinet table for youth in America who have some of the best ideas, are the best lobbyists, and right now who are completely disconnected from their government.

• 26:36Scott Galloway?

  So you said you thought that the president was gonna lose. I would argue it's still very early, even too early to know. But you have a president that's had record. We have the lowest inflation of any G7 country. We're growing faster. Our stock market is up. It's created more jobs in two and three-quarter years than any president has created in a four-year term. I would argue so far in the Middle East, at least from my perspective, has handled it well. Why do you think you would be a better president for the next four years than Joe Biden?

• 27:08Speaker 02

  Everything you said is true. I respect the president. As a member of the House Leadership Team, I helped market his priorities and his programs, and I voted for them. This is not a campaign of condemnation. It's simply recognizing what Americans are saying. But back to your first, the economic contention. Yes, the macroeconomic environment is pretty good. But when 60% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck, when 40% cannot afford a $400 emergency, we can make an economic case, macroeconomic case, as long as we want, talk about Bidenomics as much as we want. But the fact of the matter is people are suffering immensely, and housing is too high, and it's unaffordable and unavailable. We gotta produce more. Fuel is still too expensive, especially here in the Northeast.

• 27:53Speaker 02

  In New Hampshire, we have winter upon us, and heating oil is too expensive. Thousands and thousands of people needing subsidies just to get by. Groceries are too expensive, and we're affording more benefit, tax benefits, to corporations who can deduct some expenses that I think American families need. I think there's some ways, Scott, to, through healthcare, through childcare, through some tax benefits that I think are underappreciated, child tax credits. We can raise the foundation for Americans. Not redistribute wealth, if you will, but raise the foundation. I've not seen a president attempt that, and I think it's time. We can do that in a way that I believe, in a bipartisan fashion, that would be not just magnificent.

• 28:35Speaker 02

  But that will keep this country together because I'm afraid that inequities relative to wealth and income are going to be what destroys this country if division doesn't do it first. Those are my two priorities. As for foreign policy, I celebrate the president. I think he's handled Ukraine appropriately. I think his support for Israel is terribly important. This is not just about two countries far away. This is about the free world and those in democracies defending ourselves against tyranny. And that's true. It's a hard case to make to Americans right now when so many are struggling every single day and they see how much we're sending overseas. They see how much money our corporations are making in, say, health insurance. They see that we have a trillion dollar, almost

• 29:18Speaker 02

  a trillion dollar military budget. When people are, when veterans are literally sleeping in our streets, Scott, this is underappreciated. This is not rocket science. You know, this is the truth. And I'm just afraid that people who have been doing this in the same place, in the same positions, in the same way for so many years, are leading us down a very dangerous path. And the fact is, Americans are making it very clear. They do not want Donald Trump and they do not want Joe Biden in the next election.

• 29:46Scott Galloway?

  I think almost all Democrats and probably some Republicans would acknowledge that income inequality and the spoils, the enormous spoils and prosperity that America's registered over the last several decades has not found its way into many, much less all, corners of America. Can you give me three specific economic policies or programs you would implement, say, your first 24 months to try and address that problem?

• 30:09Speaker 02

  Well, let's start with minimum wage. I mean, the federal minimum wage is still $7.25. It's absurd. No one can live on that. I don't want any policies that would be inflationary to, to hardworking people. But I do believe we've got to raise the minimum wage. Childcare. The fact is that we have too many Americans right now, both young parents. Who have to stay in their homes because they cannot afford childcare even when they're working. So what choice do they make? They make the choice to stay home, which in my estimation is a terrible drag on the US economy, especially as you and I both know. Enterprises are begging for talented staff. Our workforce is insufficient, which we should also talk about immigration.

• 30:54Speaker 02

  That's another conversation. But childcare and elder care, I think, are important priorities that can be subsidized, that can be reduced in cost, so that we can encourage people to work. Right now, our policies are encouraging people, in many cases, not to. I think that is a horrific, horrific challenge. Catastrophic health insurance. I do believe we should migrate to a system that has a national health insurance mechanism. It is what Roosevelt to Truman to Richard Nixon, many presidents in between Democrats and Republicans, recognized that we would be the only nation in the world that pursued this system. It is an unmitigated disaster. I'd like to see a migration. I can make my case for it.

• 31:35Speaker 02

  But I think healthcare costs and pharmaceutical costs can be addressed expeditiously. And I also know that to be the case amongst my Republican colleagues, because their constituents are complaining about the same things. Those are three areas that would significantly, significantly raise the foundation for families, reduce and relieve their challenges, and afford them the chance to save some money and live decent lives. I think it's time for more compassionate capitalism, and believe me, I'm a capitalist, but I also recognize the consequences of our current path, and it's unsustainable. And lastly, and we can talk about the debt, you know this, 33 trillion in debt. We can accommodate it, still the reserve currency. I think our economy can certainly accommodate even more.

• 32:18Speaker 02

  But 2 trillion annually now in deficits. The most important part that nobody's talking about is our debt service. You know, we are going probably from $450 billion to probably $800 billion a year plus in our annual debt service because of rising interest rates. What that with the struggle there is that we do not generate enough revenue to have almost any discretionary dollars left to invest in anything. We haven't even talked about education and the agriculture. There's so many things I want to go into, but the fact is we are struggling to find dollars to invest in America because we're paying so much for the past that we have nothing left right now to invest in the future. That is what's unsustainable and that is what has to be addressed.

• 33:03Scott Galloway?

  So four and a half trillion in receipts, six trillion in spending, 34 trillion deficit.

• 33:10Speaker 02

  Debt.

• 33:11Scott Galloway?

  Are we gonna?

• 33:12Speaker 02

  Debt.

• 33:13Scott Galloway?

  Debt, excuse me, debt. What is it, 1.7 trillion a year?

• 33:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, just about 2 trillion, yeah.

• 33:17Scott Galloway?

  Yeah. So which side of the coin do you focus on first? And specifically, what would you do in terms of increasing revenues? Where would you raise taxes if, if anywhere? And where would you cut spending?

• 33:27Speaker 02

  So first, the first is to assess every single federal program. It hasn't been done in some time. I would outsource that to one of the leading consultant consulting firms in the world to take a look at every single federal agency, every single federal program, staffing levels, make propositions as to how we can pursue our mission using less with better technology, better systems, better structures. That's first. I would appoint a common sense czar to identify on day one ways that we can start reducing areas where we are spending and generating very little return. We're facing another shutdown here in about a week because we can't even in Congress get our act together to fund the government. That's part of the problem is the way we're doing it. So zero-based budgeting.

• 34:11Speaker 02

  As for revenues and expenses, there are ways to save, I believe, hundreds of billions of dollars, if not more, if we can make reformations to certain systems, including healthcare. I think we can save about a trillion to a trillion and a half dollars if we migrate to a new system. All the money's in there right now, wouldn't cost anymore, it's simply how it's allocated. As it relates to revenue, you asked about generation. I believe the estate tax should be enhanced. I believe the carried interest loophole is something that we have to plug. I believe those who have been successful, immensely successful in this country, should share more, but I don't think they should share more until they have confidence that their federal government will allocate those dollars in a fashion that generates a return.

• 34:55Speaker 02

  And I do believe those things can be accomplished. Our military budget, closing in on a trillion dollars a year, one trillion. I believe that we should be pursuing a 21st century defense policy. By actually, I think we could probably spend less. I'm not proposing we do, but I think we should reassess our military spending. The Pentagon has not passed an audit in gosh knows how long. That is job one. Our procurement operation, I think, is woefully structured. And I believe our military industrial complex that President Eisenhower warned us against is making decisions about American national defense, not our military leaders, not Congress, but actually the very vendors that are making all the money. And these are just truths.

• 35:39Speaker 02

  Money in politics is a significant, significant driver of these bad outcomes. They're perverse incentives. There is money. This is the most extraordinary, wealthy, successful nation in the entire world and world history. It is not for lack of resources. It's how we invest them. Education, by the way, Scott, you know, if we don't completely reinvent American education, I'm afraid nothing will be successful. We are falling behind fast. Teachers are struggling. Students are struggling. The data points are horrific. We don't value educators. We don't train them. We don't identify them earlier in life, which is the best practice because quality teachers mean quality outcomes. These are all fixable. And by the way, they're not political statements. These are actually universal.

• 36:23Speaker 02

  And my contention is that my relationships in Congress is the way forward.

• 36:28Scott Galloway?

  So you mentioned just around reducing spending. You mentioned a specific around possibly reducing military spending, which I appreciate, as I think everyone in theory is a big fan of cutting government spending, but doesn't want to offend any potential constituents with actually naming specifics. My understanding of government spending is that if you're really serious about reducing spending, that all roads lead to entitlements, that it's eating up more and more of our budget every year. Kind of three big things, right? Interest on the debt, the military, and then the biggest of all are entitlements. Do you see any areas in entitlements, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, that you think are warrant a hard look and potentially reduce spending?

• 37:10Speaker 02

  Absolutely. You know, but let me start by, I know that's the terminology entitlements, but you know, to millions of people who've really worked hard, really hard for decades, who paid into that system, especially Social Security and Medicare, you know, I don't consider those entitlements. I consider those benefits that have been earned in the trust of their government that they deserve and that they need. Social Security is the most successful anti-poverty program in world history, not just US history. But to your point, our trust funds, the five major trust funds that benefit those programs will go, they'll be going under soon. Let's start with Social Security, 2033 roughly. It'll force about a 25% cut because of our demographic changes.

• 37:54Speaker 02

  I was working with Senator Romney on something called the Trust Act. It took a lot of heat from labor because they thought it was going to undermine those programs you just discussed. My point to them was, no. There are a lot of Republicans with whom I work that want to see us do nothing because it will result in an automatic 25% cut. So how do we solve it? The Social Security cap right now, I think it's about $160,000 a year, is a very regressive tax. I think we should raise that. If we raise that to $250,000 a year, we will extend that program easily until the probably the 2040s, even up to 2050. That's a start. I also want to, I want to also provide a mechanism, this is pretty unique. I want to provide a mechanism by which Americans who have done very well in their lives,

• 38:37Speaker 02

  of which there are many, many millions, who do not need their social security. I want to create a program whereby they can forgo their benefits at their election. It'll be returned to a pool and then redistributed to the most struggling seniors who rely on social security. By the way, it has not kept up with inflation and we have a lot of seniors both suffering from diseases of despair, isolation, and very limited economic resources. I know there are millions of Americans who, if they had confidence that that money would go to people who really needed it, would do so, not return it to the treasury. But those are two actionable solutions that can prop up social security. That is terribly important. Medicare, Medicaid, and American healthcare, I think, have to be talked about in unison.

• 39:22Speaker 02

  And that's why I do believe, at the very least, every child in this country should have health coverage, period. I believe every American right now should have catastrophic healthcare because I am getting really heartbroken talking to people who have literally gone bankrupt, who have incurred tens of thousands of dollars in medical debt, because they're just one illness away from economic tragedy. That's why I do think a thoughtful national health insurance solution, similar to what Republicans have proposed in the past and some Democrats, is the answer. I'm not calling it Medicare for All because I think it should be entirely new and I think there are ways to achieve it. I do not want to change the provision of care. I think that should always remain in the hands of the private sector, nonprofit sector, even the for-profit sector, if they are more efficient.

• 40:06Speaker 02

  But by changing the payment system, we can do a whole lot better. And by changing the structure, the fee-for-service model, so that we actually provide an incentive to the care providers to keep people healthy. You know, Scott, this is, everything I'm talking about ultimately comes down to incentives and disincentives as it relates to behavior. You know, anybody who's a parent knows, anybody who owns a dog knows, that we live in a, in a, in a human enterprise and in a animal enterprise and in a world that essentially operates on incentives and disincentives. And right now, we are rewarding the wrong behavior.

• 40:43Scott Galloway?

  What are your thoughts on a wealth tax?

• 40:45Speaker 02

  I've seen it, I've seen them used in countries around the world, often they don't work and then they have to change the policy. I prefer, like I said earlier, I really do prefer, rather than a government mandating distinct redistribution, I would rather see our government migrate to enhanced foundations that will naturally spread out the wealth. Like I said earlier, you know, when you spread it out, it fertilizes. Let's fertilize, right? With all that said, my point is this, you know, in my cabinet, in my White House, when I'm president, I will have great thinkers from all political perspectives to come with ideas. I'm really tired of a Democratic set of ideas, a Republican set of ideas, when the fact

• 41:29Speaker 02

  of the matter is, we just need good ideas. And I think anything should be on the table, and I think we need the best and brightest to participate. But as long as we have this sickening culture in politics, when we are telling basically young people, it's not worth it, their voices don't matter, why bother? Apathy, to think that's going to be a solution is nonsensical. We need to inspire people, and that's my intention.

• 41:51Scott Galloway?

  So before we get to foreign policy, I'll kind of wrap up domestic with our economic policy with a bit of a lightning round. So thoughts on the southern border and the migrant crisis?

• 42:05Speaker 02

  I have too many coworkers in Congress who make their decisions based on social media and screens, and I believe you got to go check it out yourself, and that's what I've done two times, two trips to the southern border. It's appalling, it's embarrassing, it's inexcusable, it's a massive failure of both Democratic and Republican administrations for the better part of my lifetime, I'm 54. I've never been so horrified by American policy as I was when I went to see the facilities that held human beings. When I saw frankly, the disconnect between what was being portrayed on MSNBC relative to our Border Patrol agents, who I think were misportrayed, I saw them use such grace

• 42:49Speaker 02

  and compassion in helping young mothers carrying babies across the Rio Grande, put blankets around them, give them food, take care of them. I saw Border Patrol agents on 24-hour duty looking after babies in strollers who were abandoned. Whose parents we probably will never know. And I'm not saying, just like in any industry, in any profession, of course, there are some bad ones, but my goodness, I saw compassion. I saw human beings kept in cages. It made me sickened, sickened. I don't care about your politics or your race, religion, your, your country. It was horrifying to see people in cages. To see the lines of human beings waiting in line to do it the right way at our 1970s infrastructure that is just embarrassing and woefully out of date.

• 43:34Speaker 02

  And my proposition is this, two things not just can be true at once, two things are true. We need better border security because it is a national security issue. It's true on the southern border and no one's talking about the northern border. I'm a border state. We are at risk. That means barriers, that means technologies, that means better training and certainly better border control facilities. But because I come from the business world, for once that the problems at our border, it's too late. So we have to start using our foreign aid dollars to invest in the very places where migrants are coming, cost us a whole lot less, keep people safe and secure, invest in economy so people have opportunity. And then lastly, we should be adjudicating asylum cases in countries of origin.

• 44:17Speaker 02

  Those people coming to the US are following our law, which forces them to make that journey, pay $7,000 to coyotes to bring them across the river. By the way, that's their life savings for most of them. And then the only way to become an American is to declare asylum, then they're let into the country until their cases can be heard, which is often many years. And it's a totally failed system.

• 44:36Scott Galloway?

  So one of our thoroughbreds in America is the technology sector and incredible prosperity, incredible value creation, but also a lot of externalities. What are your thoughts on whether or not we should rein in big tech and how would we do that? Would it be antitrust, increased regulation, or do we just let it continue, you know, continue to do what it's been doing?

• 44:56Speaker 02

  It, it doesn't matter if it's pharmaceuticals, high tech, industry, you know, we have to encourage, promote and foster innovation, period. I mean, that is what makes America remarkable and it has to be protected. But to do it in a fashion that's unbridled or unregulated is equally foolish. And I think even the most purest of capitalists would recognize that we do need some regulation as it results in, well, let's start about, let's talk about social media and tech. You know, it has been a great boon, I think, to the world. It has been a great challenge. I think it is destroying lives in ways that psychologists clearly recognize that anonymity and condemnation is a big problem. I would love to see, in fact, I asked Mark Zuckerberg,

• 45:40Speaker 02

  when he had testified in front of a committee on which I served, why they don't just use verified accounts? Why not just put, attach your name to an account? Freedom of speech, that's great. Why not have verified accounts? And his response was, that would put us at a competitive disadvantage. That's where government comes in. That's the great equalizer. You know, banning TikTok is another example. A lot of people calling for banning TikTok. It's a function of the Chinese Communist Party. And yes, I think it is a threat and I understand that. But I don't think we should ban individual platforms. I think we should have a standard that applies to every platform and hold them accountable.

• 46:17Scott Galloway?

  We'll be right back.

• 46:22Scott Galloway?

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• 48:14Scott Galloway?

  So foreign policy is such a huge kind of elephant to try and take on. So I'm going to propose a series of scenarios and you tell me how you would respond as the president. Do you think we should have a ceasefire in Gaza right now?

• 48:30Speaker 02

  As it relates to the circumstance in Gaza, I believe there should be a cessation of hostilities to ensure that all civilians are extracted. My proposition is to set up camps, temporary camps, in either Jordan, more likely in Egypt. I think that's an imperative. With that said, Hamas has to be destroyed. They're the enemy of Israel. They're the enemy of Palestinians. That's the truth. Prime Minister Netanyahu is part of the problem. I think the settlements have been part of the problem. I believe deeply in the preservation of the state of Israel. It is integral, not just to the United States, but to the world. I also believe in the Palestinians and statehood and self-determination. And I look forward to being the first Jewish president in the United States of America

• 49:12Speaker 02

  who will sign the documents that establish a Palestinian state. Because I believe in Israel, I believe in Palestinian self-determination, and I believe Hamas has to be wiped out. And then we have to afford the chance to have Palestinians to vote for the first time since 2006. Let them choose between war and peace. And it's time for Israelis to make a choice too. War or peace.

• 49:33Scott Galloway?

  So as it relates to kind of the here and now, I think it's a nice idea that we could extract the civilians, put them in camps until the hostilities, there's a cessation in the hostilities. I don't find that realistic. My understanding is Jordan doesn't exactly have their arms spread out and the ability for, to relocate a couple million Gazan residents is just not practically reliable. So I'll propose another scenario. We can't relocate at the scale we need to, and Hamas continues to bunker down under civilian targets, recognizing that the only way we're going to get rid of Hamas is going to involve substantial collateral

• 50:14Scott Galloway?

  damage. What would you urge Israel to do or for allies to understand if, simply put, if taking out Hamas, which it sounds like you believe is an imperative here, is just unfortunately going to involve a great deal of collateral damage, which is Latin for civilian deaths. What are your thoughts?

• 50:31Speaker 02

  My thoughts are just what I said moments ago, Scott, that we share billions in aid with Egypt. They are in a position with the right invitation, encouragement, and demands, not just from the United States, but like-minded allies around the world, to do just that. This is the 21st century. We're the wealthiest nation in the world. We know how to stand up shelter for hundreds of thousands of people, if not millions, quickly. We've done it before. It should be an all-hands-on-deck approach, and I think that is the answer in the meantime. And I hear you, but I think the notion that Israel can accomplish its mission under these circumstances without putting itself in a position where its own security and future

• 51:15Speaker 02

  is at risk, I think, I just believe is not possible. But by the way, I think, once the hostages are released, I do believe there should be a cessation in hostilities. I think that is important for humanitarian purposes. But this notion that nothing is feasible is absurd. And I do believe Egypt has to play a significant role, using the resources that we have been providing for many, many, many years. And again, this is a Palestinian choice. And Scott, days before the October 7 massacre, there was some polling done by an agency in Gaza that was clear. Most Palestinians do not favor Hamas. They are subject to Hamas. That's why I think this is such an extraordinary time, despite all the bloodshed

• 51:57Speaker 02

  and horror, that we start moving towards the establishment of two states. This is not tenable. Israel cannot occupy Gaza. They cannot provide security. It's not going to work. I think that is the only solution. But that again, is why I think reasonable, competent ideators from all politics should come together right now to identify possible solutions. But to let this just play out the way it's going to play out without intervention, I think is absurd. And I do believe deeply, deeply in the preservation and protection of Israel. I also have to say, as a Jewish American, Prime Minister Netanyahu is affecting our safety and security in the United States right now. And I know any member of the Jewish community here knows that. This is now reaching our shores.

• 52:42Speaker 02

  It's no longer just an issue between Israelis and Palestinians. And that's why this conversation has to occur now.

• 52:50Scott Galloway?

  So let's go to another hotspot. So a Ukrainian general just said we're at a stalemate in the war between Ukraine and Russia after Russia's invasion of Ukraine. And it also polls show that Americans' enthusiasm for the war is waning. We're faced, if we're faced with some sort of negotiation that would involve Russia maintaining some of their ill-gotten, captured territory, whatever you want to call it, do you think this is, they have to, a total withdrawal is, is what we would demand and should continue to support? What are your views on, on Ukraine and America's support for what might be a realistic outcome there?

• 53:29Speaker 02

  Well, first of all, at the root of this is Ukraine is an independent, sovereign nation, and that will be their choice, not ours. We are not deploying American troops. It is not our boots on the ground, it's theirs. They're the ones spilling blood. We are supporting their effort because it is existential. I have to say, I believe this started when Putin moved on Crimea about almost a decade ago. Then President Obama frankly, didn't do anything.

• 53:55Speaker 02

  And I do believe that is the root of where we're at right now. You know, people like Vladimir Putin respond to one thing and they will keep pressing forward until they are met with resistance, kinetic resistance, most of the time. The absence of that gave him essentially the hall pass, if you will, to do what he's doing now. So we lost that, I think, then, and we wouldn't be in this scenario if something had been done at that time. By the way, Syria, the red line in Syria, very similar. As for the stalemate, I do believe we have to support Ukraine until this hostility ends. It will be their choice about what they're willing to concede, what they're willing to give up. That is not our choice.

• 54:32Scott Galloway?

  Well, I would just, I would push back a little bit there because the reality is, I get that it's their choice, they're fighting it, but we give more aid than the rest of the world combined. And if that aid were to be reduced or stopped, the reality is they would be playing with a much weaker hand and would probably

• 54:48Speaker 02

  I agree.

• 54:49Scott Galloway?

  Probably have to come to the table, I would think. So is your view, would you be advocating that we're in this to win it? It might take years, it might take hundreds of billions of dollars, it might involve NATO troops on the ground, who knows? Is your viewpoint, until Russians leave Ukraine, America is in this to win it, full stop? Or is it something more nuanced than that?

• 55:11Speaker 02

  I believe America and our allies, by the way, which I believe need to step up in much more significant manners. I believe America and our allies, who believe in the preservation of democracy and free nations, have to support Ukraine until they win. And anything short of that, Scott, in my estimation, is exactly the hall pass that was given to Vladimir Putin when he took Crimea. Iran is watching, North Korea is watching, China is watching, especially as it relates to Taiwan.

• 55:43Scott Galloway?

  So Representative, last question, you've been very generous with your time. I recognize how busy you are. In terms of your core values, kind of what shapes or has shaped who you are, the really, like, if you try to get to the ground zero of understanding your view around politics, economics, relationships, the country, is it most informed by faith, by family, by capitalism, your mentors? Like, what at the core? Representative Phillips, it could best identify who you are if people want to understand you.

• 56:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, I start with loss. I've suffered great loss in my life. And the other is gratitude. I believe that people who have been fortunate, like me, after incurring loss and tragedy, everybody in the United States has faced trauma and loss, despair. I've been there too. I'm a human being. But my gratitude is my core value. I am so lucky to live here in this country, to have an extraordinary family, to be protected by a history in this country of people, a million people have given their lives to ensure that we have these chances. I'm grateful to know that I'm here and there are probably a billion people around the world

• 57:02Speaker 02

  that would give up everything they had right now, everything they had, to become an American. That's what informs me, gratitude, the recognition that there's a fine line between success and failure. And that if I can dedicate the entirety of my life to ensuring that more people can pursue their dreams, that's my ethos. And I can, I'll end with this. My dad was killed when he was 26 years old, and I remember the day that I was the same age as he was on the day he died. And the morning after, my life changed forever. I went from someone who was relatively apathetic, somewhat uninspired, and that gratitude and that loss intersected on that very day when I was 26 years old. And I determined I would take advantage of every moment I had.

• 57:47Speaker 02

  And when I got to go back to Vietnam in March of this year, to the very site where my dad was killed, and take some of that dirt and sit there for a moment and recognize the power of the American presidency, the power of the American brand, so many thousands of miles away, at a place where my dad was given education by the American government and his life was taken away in a war to which they sent him. That's when I decided what gratitude and need really are. And that's why I'm doing this, and that's what informs my whole life right now.

• 58:16Scott Galloway?

  Dean Phillips is a third-term Democratic congressman from Minnesota and now a Democratic candidate for President of the United States of America. Prior to entering politics, Representative Phillips founded and sold Talenti Gelato and was active in the nonprofit sector. He joins us from the campaign trail in New Hampshire. Representative Phillips, you know, I feel the same way Bill Maher. You're thoughtful, you're a Democrat, and quite frankly, you're 54. And I think a lot of people are going to be a hard look.

• 58:44Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 58:45Scott Galloway?

  So thanks for your time and best to look on the trail.

• 58:47Speaker 02

  Hey, keep the faith. Thanks for the invitation. See you soon.

• 58:59Scott Galloway?

  Out of happiness, I was really moved by USC's quarterback Caleb Williams. I never thought I would say that. I hate the Trojans because I went to UCLA and Cal and the Trojans consistently sort of was kind of ruined our chance to get to the Rose Bowl. Anyways, but this individual, he's probably, my guess is he'll go number one in the draft. He's going to make tens, if not hundreds of millions of dollars. And he was in, in his most recent game, it looked like they weren't going to get a national championship. He was just despondent, really upset, and went over to the stands, kind of jumped in the stands and embraced his mother and was very emotional, started sobbing. And I think this is a big moment. I really do. I think this guy has demonstrated the self-actualization and the courage to be emotional in front of

• 59:41Scott Galloway?

  others in what is an incredibly masculine setting, if you will. And here's the thing, that's part of growing into being a man. And that is one, turning to your parents. You know what your parents really want more than anything? You know what they want more than anything? They want you to be successful, but they also want the opportunity, not only to celebrate in your victories, but to have the opportunity to comfort you. I can't tell you how wonderful that mother probably felt. She was sad for him, but she, that closeness that her son is willing to express that type of emotion to her and that he has that courage is so important on so many levels. The number one addiction that has the greatest incidence of suicide is actually gambling.

• 1:00:26Scott Galloway?

  Now, why is that? If you're addicted to alcohol, or meth, or opioids, people usually figure it out and then will try and intervene. And that's what you need. You need intervention. The problem with a gambling addiction is you can get in really deep and nobody knows. And you get into a situation where you think there's no way out and you decide to end it. And key to having intervention from other people is an ability to express your emotions. I am struggling. I am upset about this. That is what makes you not only feel closer to people and people feel closer to you, but that's part of the healing process. When I am moved by certain creative, when I'm moved by certain literature, or certain

• 1:01:09Scott Galloway?

  TV shows, whatever it might be, it informs what I enjoy. When I am moved by certain scenes that involve fathers and sons, it indicates to me that the most important relationship in my life is the relationship with my sons and I start investing more there. When I'm moved by, inspired by certain entrepreneurs, or certain writers who are brave and creative, I think, well, that, why am I moved by that? Because I want to be seen as someone who is creative and brave. It is going to be difficult to allocate your finite human capital to its greatest return, its greatest reward, unless you allow yourself to feel real emotion, which will inform what

• 1:01:54Scott Galloway?

  is important to you. But getting back to Caleb Williams, this was a huge moment for masculinity and a huge moment for men. We can't be afraid. We need to be unafraid to share our emotions and say to people who love us and who we love, I am upset. I am upset and I am sharing that with you because I love you. I know you love me and I want you to know that I think you can help me and I have no preconceived notions around what it means to be a strong male, other than taking care of others, providing for others, and being a good person, and being on the right end, and being supportive when people are brave enough to share their emotions with me.

• 1:02:36Scott Galloway?

  This episode was produced by Caroline Shager and Jennifer Sanchez is our associate producer. Andrew Burrows is our technical director. Thank you for listening to the Prop G Pod from the Vox Media Podcast Network. We will catch you on Saturday for No Mercy, No Malice, as read by George Hahn, and on Monday with our weekly market show.

• 1:03:00Scott Galloway?

  Microsoft, or Bard, or Claude. Claude, Claude, Claude, Claude, Anthropic, Claude? Is Anthropic French? Is it Claude? I think it's Claude. I don't think they're Canadian either.

• 1:03:12Speaker 04

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• 1:03:42Speaker 06

  Now at Kroger, your points add up to more ways to save every trip. Use them your way to take dollars off groceries at checkout or save at the pump. You can even save up to $35 on your next fill-up. Same points, more choices. And with low prices on fresh, quality food, plus digital and personalized offers tailored to how you shop, your dollar goes further. Redeem your points online or in the app. Kroger, fresh for everyone. Restrictions apply. See site or store for details.