Office Hours: Section 230, University Rundles, and Advancing Your Career as a Parent

Scott takes a question about how Section 230 could be altered to address the harms of social media companies. He then shares his thoughts on how Universities could cash in on a recurring revenue model, and offers career advice to a mother who works in marketing. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Scott Galloway?

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• 0:48Speaker 01

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• 1:26Scott Galloway?

  Welcome to the Prop G Pod's Office Hours. This is the part of the show where we answer your questions about business, big tech, entrepreneurship, and whatever else is on your mind. If you'd like to submit a question, please visit officehours.profgmedia.com. Again, that's officehours.profgmedia.com. First question.

• 1:44Speaker 02

  He's got, this is Whitney Burgendahl, Washington DC area. And I'm wondering what you think it'll take to get a Section 230 rewrite? And if you want to entertain the idea, what would that rewrite look like if it were, in your opinion, to be done in a way that would help prevent some of the harm that we're seeing from all the data gathering that these companies are doing and taking advantage of consumers? But also on another level, I had a more interesting question that would maybe dive a little deeper into the intent behind what we see in a lot of these tech companies today. Do you think there was a moment where these companies realized that exploiting all this data was going to be the key to their business? Or do you think these companies really did start with this intent and goal to be benevolent

• 2:28Speaker 02

  in the way that they provided a product or a service and really fitting in that? Google's do no evil initial mantra? At what point do they move to a place where they're doing evil, but in the name of good business, just because it's accepted? So appreciate the time. Love listening to your pod and always like the hot takes you've got.

• 2:53Scott Galloway?

  Whitney from Washington DC, you sound just very chill and mellow. Sounds like you're in government because you seem very knowledgeable about these issues. So a little bit about Section 230. It was enacted in 1996. It protects content that is online and provided by someone else. And it was supposed to help provide cloud cover for nascent emerging technology platforms. They are no longer nascent or emerging. Under Section 230, social platforms aren't liable for distribution of other people's content. So if I put out something false on Facebook and it ends up hurting a company, they're not liable. I can still be sued for liable, but not the platform. Whereas if Fox or CNN says that Dominion voting machines were weaponized by Hugo Chavez

• 3:38Scott Galloway?

  and Dominion can show that's hurt their business, then Fox is in fact liable. So these companies have protection that most media companies don't have. And a lot of people have an issue with that because these companies are now more valuable and more dominant than traditional media companies. So why not just eliminate it? If you were to eliminate it, it would probably be the end of these companies because it would be very difficult for them to police every bit of content that's put up and fact check it. They're just, these businesses are run on billions of other people's content. And so to be responsible for the veracity of that content would just most likely kneecap them and put them out of business. And I don't think you want to do that as much as a critic as I am of big tech.

• 4:21Scott Galloway?

  They, on a net basis, are positives for America because of their economic value. People do connect, people do communicate. Having said that, just as we benefit from pesticides, just as we benefit from fossil fuels, but we have regulation, we need thoughtful regulation. Section 230 is outdated. It wasn't written in anticipation of how powerful these companies would become or their externalities. So what do we do? There are carve-outs, carve-outs around election misinformation, carve-outs around health. And I think Senators Klobuchar and some other folks have sort of led the battle here. Senator Warner is a very smart guy who understands technology. But it's clear, in my view, that 230 needs to be reworked to foot to the current environment

• 5:02Scott Galloway?

  we're in and some of the damage that can be done by these platforms where a lie spreads. You know, basically, as I think it was Mark Twain said, "A lie travels around the world before the truth is put on its shoes." You know, typical media engages in misinformation, but it's a dumpster fire. The misinformation on social media is a nuclear mushroom cloud. So I would reform 230. Now, to your larger question around when did they go evil? I love what Dove Seibert says, that it's not that these people are immoral, they're amoral. They're not bad people. I know a lot of them. I would even argue that they're good people. What happens is they're in a society that turns them into gods and gives them love, gives them attention, gives them adulation, gives them forgiveness because they're rich.

• 5:47Scott Galloway?

  So to be rich in America is to be loved, and to be loved is wonderful. And so you will make incremental decisions to avoid facing difficult issues or dealing with externalities, whether it's misinformation or weaponization of elections, or privacy violations, or teen depression, in order to garner more shareholder value. And you're under such constant attack that you want to push back. A lot of times, your statements are misrepresented, your intentions are misrepresented, so you've built an ecosystem.

• 6:19Scott Galloway?

  To protect yourself from additional regulation or from, you know, statements about you that may not even be true. You build up this infrastructure and this infrastructure is so powerful because you have so much money. You basically just reflexively try and fight anything that inhibits your ability to increase the price of your shares. And we've been taught in America that that's what you're supposed to do as a CEO. You're always supposed to err on the side of shareholder value, that it's not your job to solve the world's ills. And that if you don't collect that data and use it to target a 16-year-old who might be suffering from depression with additional videos on depression that only cements her depression, if you will,

• 7:03Scott Galloway?

  that there might be data there, but until it's absolute, and that data is usually not absolute, you'll keep trying to delay and obfuscate any attempts to address that because you're making serious bank and that's your job. And shareholders love you and the people around you love you because they're making money too. In sum, it's very easy to put on blinders when it's raining money. Thanks for the question. Question number two.

• 7:27Speaker 03

  Hey Scott, I'm a sophomore at American University in Washington DC. I'm surprised our mascot is the eagle. With a question hopefully right up your alley. Why are universities looking more at the rundle? Despite many universities making pretty sizable investments in quote-unquote alumni relations, which are, in my experience, student call centers. Alumni donations account for a relatively small portion of most universities' funding and all but a handful of Ivy League schools, which have a habit of producing very wealthy graduates. But there are a lot of schools that have really good brands. Think UC schools, NYU, Tulane. They already spend a lot on alumni events and could offer graduates a pretty impressive bundle of services for a monthly or annual fee.

• 8:09Speaker 03

  Think the standard receptions, reunions and events that everybody already gets invited to. Plus tickets to sports games, access to the university library, building and workspaces, archives, databases and research. And maybe even the opportunity to take a course once a year or a semester, probably online or at the university. I don't see a lot of 20-somethings or young parents jumping at the chance to feel like they're back in college, but there are a lot of folks out there who liked the school they attended. I would be thrilled to write a check every year to see basketball games or take a Renaissance history class. So with alumni buy-in, could universities do this? Is there an opportunity here? Or will too many people have the same, seriously, I still

• 8:50Speaker 03

  owe you money reaction that they have when their alma mater sends their email? Keep up the good work.

• 8:56Scott Galloway?

  Uh, this is a really thoughtful question. Oh my God, you're just a sophomore. Uh, you need a job. Uh, anyways, Finn, thanks for, thanks for the thoughtful question. So a few things. Fundraising at universities is really interesting. In terms of what you're talking about, more specifically, the Rundles, it's absolutely the way to go. And I think where we will go and a great idea, and the president of the university at Miami has actually talked about this, and that is, they have kind of a weird business model, them being universities. They're trying to attract people based on scarcity and brand and get you to come in and consume the ultimate luxury product. The margins are exceptional, but we try and get a shit ton of money and then we wait 20 years after they graduate and then call them and ask them and hope they're rich and ask them for a hundred thousand dollars

• 9:40Scott Galloway?

  or a million dollars. It's a very lumpy, weird revenue stream. So the idea of lifelong learning and saying, okay, once you get into UCLA or NYU, you're going to pay $10,000 during those four or five years where you're pursuing, um, an accreditation or a certification in the form of a degree, but then from the ages of 22 to 35, you're going to pay a thousand bucks a year. And then from 40 to 80, we're going to ask you to pay five or $10,000 a year. And what do you get? You get access to all the athletic events. You get access to the campus. You get access to our career center that has career coaching and a job board, not only for people at one age, 22 and graduating, but for everybody. You're going to get access to lifelong learning.

• 10:25Scott Galloway?

  We're going to take our best professors and put on programs and seminars and really keep you as part of the community. And one, you'll get a lot of consumption. You'll get a lot of value here, but also a chance to be engaged in your alma mater. This would create much more predictable cash flows, much more consistent cash flows. It would cost some money in the short run. When Adobe went to a Rundle and stopped selling $1,300 software, but said, pay us $24.99 a month and we'll give you access to all of our software at any time, their stock took a dip and now it's up, I think 15 or 20x. So it's going to require leadership from a university president and also some capital to smooth out those first three to five years when you give up on those fat $72,000 tuitions.

• 11:10Scott Galloway?

  But I think you are absolutely thinking the right way, Finn. Finn, I hope you go into business or nonprofit. Actually, I hope you do whatever you want. You sound like a really thoughtful guy that's going to bring a lot of value to whatever field that you go into. We have one quick break before our final question. Stay with us.

• 11:33Scott Galloway?

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• 12:17Scott Galloway?

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• 12:50Scott Galloway?

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• 13:35Scott Galloway?

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• 14:00Scott Galloway?

  Welcome back. Question number three.

• 14:03Speaker 04

  Hi, Scott. My name is Terea, calling from Washington DC. I'm a big fan and regular listener of your show and the Pivot Podcast. My question for you is about being a working mom. You've mentioned several times on the podcast that women are often the caretakers, and that's true for me. I'm a 29-year-old woman. My husband is a second-year physician assistant student, and we have an almost-two-year-old daughter. Remote work has been a huge unlock for me, as I'm able to juggle the needs of maintaining my home, caring for my child with help, and keeping up with full-time work responsibilities. I work in marketing, specifically as a content writer, with hopes to dive more into brand strategy. I'm actually planning to take your brand strategy sprint this fall. What's your advice for advancing a marketing career while being present in the home? I want and plan to do it all. Thanks for your insight.

• 14:48Scott Galloway?

  A great question. How can you advance in your marketing career? So very generally speaking, marketing is more about analytics right now. It's more about understanding innovation than it is traditional marketing. Don't fall into the trap of the Don Draper, Scott Galloway, brand strategy sinkhole, that it's about brand associations and advertising and brand positioning. That ship has sailed. That stuff's still important, but it's a shrinking industry. You want to get in front of a wave. What's the wave? Trying to think about supply chain, trying to think about creating a culture of innovation, trying to think about benchmarking other firms, how they distribute their products. As a marketing person, I think you want to say, this is what I'm about. I'm about supply chain, I'm about innovation, I'm about new means of customer acquisition.

• 15:32Scott Galloway?

  And you always want to show up with numbers. Be the guy or the gal that has the data. Jim Barksdale, who was, I think, the CEO of AT&T and then Netscape, said, "If we're going with opinions, let's go with mine. But if we have data, let's look at the data." Always try to be the guy or the gal that shows up with data to support any issue or decision you're going to advocate for. Otherwise, it just becomes a yelling match. Also, continually reinvest in your education, continually reinvest in your skills, as you're talking about with Section 4 and even additional certification. Despite having kids at home, try and put in place, and I realize this isn't easy, some infrastructure such that you can get in the office one to two days a week

• 16:17Scott Galloway?

  and establish those in-person relationships. For every promotion, there will be two to three people at least who are qualified for the promotion. And the promotion will go to the person who has the best relationship with the decider. And the person who has the best relationship with the decider is typically the person who has the greatest proximity, or specifically is with that person the most in-person. I remember working at Levi Strauss and Company or working for Levi Strauss and Company when I started my first company, Profit. They were our biggest client in the early years, in the early 90s. And I remember the head of Europe would constantly be at Levi's Plaza in San Francisco. I'm like, "Why are you here? It's such a haul to get here all the time." And he said, "Well, I need to establish relationships and be visible.

• 17:02Scott Galloway?

  I need to be visible." His thought was them just seeing him. Made them think about Carl and what a great job he was doing in Europe and how Europe was killing it because, because what they're finding, and they found for a long time, you're much more likely to be promoted in senior management when you work at HQ. You're less likely to be fired when you're not working remotely and you're more likely to be paid more. Be very careful of carving out a job that can be all remote. Why? Because if your job can be moved to Boulder, it can be moved to Bangalore. So one, constantly reinvesting in your education. Two, really think about the fields and the skills that make the new modern marketer. And three, try and figure out a way, even if it's one day a week, one day every other week, ideally one to two days a week where you can get

• 17:46Scott Galloway?

  in and establish and cement strong relationships as a function of being in the physical presence of the people who matter. Thank you so much for the question, Turea. That's all for this episode. Again, if you'd like to submit a question, please submit a voice recording by visiting officehours.proptgmedia.com. Our producers are Caroline Chagrin, Claire Miller, and Drew Burrows. If you like what you heard, please follow, download, and subscribe. Thank you for listening to the Prop G Pod from the Vox Media Podcast Network. We will catch you next week.

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