Office Hours: Amazon Buying One Medical, How to Push Back at Work, and the Bright Side of Layoffs

Scott takes a question about Amazon’s healthcare strategy and what its acquisition of One Medical means for the company’s patients. He then offers advice on how to give meaningful pushback at work without antagonizing leadership, and shares some words of wisdom for someone worried about layoffs. Music: https://www.davidcuttermusic.com / @dcuttermusic Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Scott Galloway?

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• 0:49Speaker 01

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• 1:26Scott Galloway?

  Welcome to the Prop G Pod's Office Hours. This is the part of the show where we answer your questions about business, big tech, entrepreneurship, and whatever else is on your mind. If you'd like to submit a question, please visit officehours.profgmedia.com. Again, that's officehours.profgmedia.com. I have not heard these questions yet. First question.

• 1:45Speaker 02

  Hi, this is Emma coming to you from Washington DC. Recently, there have been more technology-enabled healthcare platforms popping up from offering more personalized services like One Medical to collecting and using information to provide a more data-driven and personalized healthcare plan, like Forward. This week, Amazon announced their acquisition of One Medical. I would love to hear your take on Amazon's desire to become a player in healthcare and what that might mean for us as One Medical patients.

• 2:14Speaker 03

  I made this prediction that Amazon was going to get into healthcare in a big way several years ago. Why? I started with the fact that if you look at Walmart, Walmart trades at a P of, I don't know, 12 to 15, meaning it needs to grow kind of high single digits to maintain that price earnings ratio. But when you're Amazon and you're trading at a 50 or 60 or 70 times price earnings multiple, it means the marketplace is saying, we expect you to grow, you know, 15, 20, 25% a year. Otherwise, we're going to take your PE down to where Walmart's is and your stock's going to get cut by two thirds. So they recognize this.

• 2:54Speaker 03

  So in order to maintain their stock's trajectory, they have to add approximately a quarter of a trillion dollars in top line revenue over the next five years. So that's where I started. Amazon needs to add a quarter of a trillion dollars. The question is, where do they go for that? They can't go after niche markets. They can't be in, they can't even own something like audio. They can't own car stereos. They can't own the, even if they were to say, we're going to own the domestic box office theater business, we're going to buy every theater in the nation, take advantage of these low prices. That's only a $10 billion business. They have to find a carcass that is large enough to feed the biggest great white shark in the history of business. So that says, okay, there's only a handful of industries that offer a carcass that big and one of them is healthcare.

• 3:37Speaker 03

  And it just became obvious to me with their acquisition of PillPack, an online pharmacy for three quarters of a billion dollars, acquisition of Whole Foods, they're going to have insight into your lifestyle. They know a lot about your body mass index. They'll look at the sizing of your clothes. Some people will find that a violation of privacy. I think if they use it in thoughtful ways that help inform, we'd like to have our privacy violated as long as there's utility there. Just don't sell it to the Russians or start depressing my teenage daughter. Anyway. This is something they've been planning for a while. I think it makes a lot of sense for both parties. One medical, 180 offices across two dozen cities. They also partner with about 8,000 companies to do kind of enterprise sales. The company, I'm an investor in 98.6 sells through the enterprise.

• 4:21Speaker 03

  Get this, for about a buck a month for employees. So if you're Costco and you have 200,000 employees for $200,000 a month, everyone has access to 98.6 where they click on an icon and they're immediately connected via text with a healthcare professional, which saves the company a lot of money in terms of insurance claims. And also, the employees love it because they have access to more robust, more proactive healthcare. An Amazon spokesperson has stated, "One medical customer's HIPAA protected. Health information will be handled separately from all other Amazon businesses as required by laws." They're obviously sensitive to our sensitivities around this stuff. Senator Klobuchar has asked the FTC to investigate if this deal would violate antitrust laws. I love Senator K.

• 5:06Speaker 03

  I may support her for president. I like people who show up and do the work and are able to establish a voice of moderation and reach across the aisle. And Senator K has accomplished all those things. In addition, if I was just an economic animal and I had skills and certification and kind of had the choice to go into whatever industry I wanted at this point in my life, I would position myself squarely in between the intersection of technology and healthcare. I think it's going to be, just as the intersection of technology and retail created trillions of dollars in shareholder value or leaked trillions of dollars from one sector, the old economy retail, to the new sector, specifically Amazon and other players and Shopify, you're

• 5:47Speaker 03

  going to see the same type of transfer of wealth from the old line healthcare companies to the new innovators. What would be really interesting, what would be really interesting, and I think we're going to do this for No Mercy No Malice, if you look at the biggest retailers from 20 years ago, I think eight out of 10 of them are no longer in the top 10. I think Home Depot and Walmart are still in the top 10, but the rest are new players. Healthcare is fat and happy and feels, smells, and looks a lot like retail 20 years ago. So this is super exciting. I'm excited about it. And I apologize for being redundant, but appreciate the question from Emma in Washington, DC. Next question.

• 6:24Speaker 04

  Hi, Scott. I come to you with a question on leadership and teamwork today. In your latest episode of Pivot, you mentioned in the context of working with powerful people that quote unquote, "the smart ones surround themselves with competence and people who push back." From my experience, sometimes people who push back or bring a different perspective to that of the leader are perceived as a problem child or troublemakers. On the same vein, managers who work with people who push back or people who bring a different demeanor to their own struggle with balancing the time and effort required to manage the pushback with getting things done. My question to you is twofold. Is there a way employees can push back without coming off as a troublemaker?

• 7:08Speaker 04

  And how can managers allow room for this pushback and diversity in perspectives while still getting things done and creating alignment within a team? Thank you for all that you do and teach us, Scott. It's among the best parts of my day when a new episode of your podcast drops. Hope you're well.

• 7:22Speaker 03

  Uh, thank you, Vaishnavi from Hong Kong, uh, now in New York City. Thanks for the kind words. So I think that good leaders do appreciate feedback. They recognize pretty early on that groupthink or everyone barking up the same tree makes everyone stupid and leads to bad decisions. Uh, I can tell you as someone who has a big ego and is a bit of a narcissist, that oftentimes when someone really pushes back on me really hard, I do get a little bit emotional and angry and offended. But that dissipates and I realize it's important. Now, there's some elegance and EQ required here. And that is, you don't want to be that guy or gal that's constantly kind of in the business of gotcha and pushing back on everything. I think you want to pick your punches.

• 8:06Speaker 03

  Ideally, you have the kind of environment where people ask you for your opinion, you know, what do we think about this? But I think a lot of it is just the context and the tone. Have we considered, but what have you thought about what happens if this happens? Take a sense of ownership in the decision. Are we worried that if we open too many stores and it looks like commercial retail rents are at a cyclical high? Are we worried that we're entering into long-term obligations that may come back to haunt us because we have to do tenure to leases? I think that if you pose it as questions around a different strategy or, you know, asking, have you considered or have we thought about? I think people appreciate that. I think just kind of coming after people and like, that makes no sense. Or what if, you know, this will happen? And you put people on their heels?

• 8:51Speaker 03

  Uh, that scene is not productive. And I think you also need to be careful in all hands not to, I think it's fine to ask open, honest questions, but I think there's always one or two employees, at least my experience, where they enjoy trying to play stump the CEO or embarrass the CEO and they think that it shows some sort of strength on their part. Keep in mind, the leadership will say memo to self, when we need to fire people, we need to lay off people, this person, this person needs to go. And people are human, they don't want to be offended, they don't want to be made to look stupid. And as it relates to your ability to provide thoughtful pushback, I think a lot of it is just context, respectful.

• 9:30Speaker 03

  Kind of my two partners in the business at L2 were Catherine and Maureen, two women who were technically my co-founders. And two or three times a day, no exaggeration, I would just look at them and they would know what I wanted and we'd go into a conference room and we'd talk about an issue and be like, okay, what's happening with LVMH, the account here, are we going there, are we doing a deep dive, what's going on with our digital IQ ranking and the, in the auto industry? And then on a regular basis, we would literally go through every person, what's going on with him, what's going on with her, what's happening here and go through every client. And I liked getting in a room and just talking things out.

• 10:13Speaker 03

  I do believe that greatness is in the agency of others and it helps to articulate what you're thinking, have people respond in respectful, thoughtful, interactive manner. They can push back, they can argue, you should never get personal, you should never disagree for the sake of disagreement unless it's an exercise in trying to get to a better solution. But absolutely, good leaders recognize that thoughtful pushback is a feature, not a bug. And if someone is, if you have a boss or somebody who really just recoils at any sort of pushback, you probably have the wrong boss or you're in the wrong company. That just, that ends up in bad decisions and kind of poor leadership. I don't think anyone questioned meta enough at Facebook.

• 10:56Speaker 03

  I think at some point, someone must have said, let me get this, we're not going after a niche, we're going to try and replicate the real world experience and gaming and work and entertainment and the office, we're going to try and do all of that when entire sectors have spent decades trying to just figure out gaming. Isn't that a little arrogant of us? Isn't that a little ambitious?

• 11:16Scott Galloway?

  Okay, there's data reflecting that everyone that puts on the Oculus feels nauseous. Should we be thinking about another portal strategy or another on wrap? I don't think anybody's asking those questions. I just think they've made a series of bad decisions. And it sounds like everyone is just turning into a giant yes woman. Anyways, Bhushnavi, it's an interesting question. I absolutely think there's a way to approach or delivering good feedback and good disagreement. I think good leaders appreciate it. Thanks for your time. We have one quick break before our final question. Stay with us. Support for the show comes from Nutraful, the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand used by over one and a half million people. With age comes knowledge, patience, and for some, hair loss.

• 12:01Scott Galloway?

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• 12:45Scott Galloway?

  That's nutraful.com promo code PROP G. Support for the show comes from Upwork. Trying to scale your business? At some point, you're probably going to hit a point where you need some help. Sometimes the best way to break through that is bringing in the right talent at the right time. Upwork can help. Upwork is a one-stop platform where you can find, hire, and pay expert freelancers across more than 125 categories. Whether you need specialized skills for a single project or extra support to keep up with demand, it's easy to connect with experienced professionals, review their work, and find the right fit. You can move faster without taking on the commitment of full-time hires. And for businesses that need the very best talent, Upwork Business Plus provides access to the top 1% of freelancers on the platform.

• 13:30Scott Galloway?

  AI-powered matching connects you with qualified candidates in under six hours, cutting down the time spent searching. Upwork also takes care of contracts, payments, and other administrative tasks, so you can spend less time managing logistics and more time focused on what's next. Visit upwork.com/profg right now and post your job for free. That's upwork.com/profg to connect with top talent ready to help your business grow. That's U P W O R K dot com slash prof G, upwork.com slash prof G.

• 14:05Speaker 03

  Welcome back. Question number three.

• 14:07Speaker 05

  Hi, Scott. My name is Victoria and I'm from Cleveland, Ohio. I work in the wonderful world of telehealth. As of this morning, a friend and colleague was let go and is now without a job. Do you have any words of wisdom or something uplifting for those of us who are watching our friends and colleagues exit the workplace as a result of the current economic downturn? As a healthcare provider, mom, female, millennial, the past few years have felt exhausting, and I would love to hear something uplifting from the dog. Thanks.

• 14:43Speaker 03

  Victoria from Cleveland, that's both a heartfelt and an interesting question. Well, first off, Victoria, what I know about you is that you live in the greatest country in the world, that you're in a great industry that's growing, that you probably are educated, and that you're helping other people. Most of us do meaningful work. You do profound work. And the fact that you have friends that you care about, and I can hear the emotion in your voice, means that you are an emotionally balanced person who has leaned into your emotions and recognizes that deep and meaningful relationships are the entire shooting match. So let's review, Victoria, based on my armchair assumptions after hearing your voice for 15 seconds. You are a thoughtful, blessed person, living in a wonderful country with a great job,

• 15:28Speaker 03

  who has good friends, and the fact that you're upset is because you have a friend that you care about and most likely cares about you. Now- With respect to your friend, there's gonna be a lot of this. Layoffs are a function, you can't hire a lot of people unless you're allowed to lay them off. We've had layoffs at my ed tech company, Section 4, and they always suck. I always put them off. I always make the same mistake. I over-hire in boom times. And then end up in a situation where, in this case, in ed tech, the winds of COVID came out of our sails and people weren't interested in being in their houses and learning via Zoom. And we had to lay off 20, 25% of our staff. And it's just, it's fucking painful and it's more painful for them. My advice to people who get laid off is that in most cases, not all, but most cases,

• 16:12Speaker 03

  you look back and think, that was probably over the medium and the long-term and the short-term, which is painful and it's scary, but a good thing. Because human capital needs to be allocated to its best use. The worst thing that can happen to you is you end up in a job where you're just good enough not to get fired, or the company is doing well enough that it doesn't lay off people. And you end up just kind of going sideways. You don't advance that fast, but it's not bad enough that you leave. And you end up, you look up from your desk and it's 20 years later and you done fine, but you haven't had the career that you'd hoped. That's the worst thing that can happen. The best thing is success. The next best thing is to fail fast. The worst professional experiences I have haven't been being fired.

• 16:54Speaker 03

  It's hanging in for 10 years at a place, i.e. Red Envelope, and then having it fail. Also, the advice I would give your friend who's been laid off is don't bring your full self to work. This wasn't about you. This was about a company. This was about an economy. Two-thirds of the time when people get laid off or fired, it's not about them. It's about things that are outside of their control. She's likely gonna find another job. Unemployment is at record lows. She's gonna be just fine. And what a wonderful benefit of all of this. It sounds like she made a great friend. You sound like someone who is exactly where you should be. You're in healthcare. I can just tell by your voice that you're empathetic and a caring person. We in healthcare are fortunate to have you. Victoria from Cleveland, I'm sorry I wasn't more uplifting.

• 17:38Speaker 03

  Cleveland, what is that, Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? Seems like a great place to raise a family. Anyways, I get the sense you're living a nice life and that you deserve it. Thanks, Victoria. That's all for this episode. Again, if you'd like to submit a question, please submit a voice recording by visiting officehours.proptumedia.com.

• 18:05Speaker 03

  Our producers are Caroline Shager and Drew Burrows. Claire Miller is our associate producer. If you like what you heard, please follow, download and subscribe. Thank you for listening to the Prop G Pod from the Vox Media Podcast Network. We will catch you on Thursday.

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