First Time Founders with Ed Elson – How Bobbi Brown Built A Beauty Empire

Ed speaks with Bobbi Brown, the founder of Bobbi Brown Cosmetics and Jones Road Beauty. They discuss her journey in the beauty industry, the impact of social media on the makeup world, and the importance of building a personal brand. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

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• 1:06Scott Galloway?

  Serum moisturizer or moisturizer serum.

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• 1:31Ed Elson?

  Scott, how much do you know about the beauty industry?

• 1:33Scott Galloway?

  More than your average straight white guy. I worked with I worked with L'Oréal, Estee Lauder, LVMH, Clarence, MAC.

• 1:42Ed Elson?

  And what were your main takeaways?

• 1:44Scott Galloway?

  That it's a really impressive industry. It attracts a lot of very smart people. It's a growing industry. It's a fantastic, high margin industry that it's all about. I mean, it's kind of the ultimate branding celebrity death match because they're all kind of selling the same mud. I mean, it really is kind of 90% branding and there's a ton of innovation there. The beauty industry or the luxury industry, it doesn't get the credit it deserves in terms of innovation. True innovation around branding, they were some of the first to go vertical, have celebrity spokespeople, embrace social movements. John Dempsey at Estee Lauder was one of the first people to embrace gay people and transgender

• 2:28Scott Galloway?

  people as spokespeople. So they were always kind of cutting edge. It was also an industry that advanced female executives pretty quickly. So I enjoyed it. I really enjoyed working with those companies.

• 2:48Ed Elson?

  Welcome to First Time Founders. I'm Ed Elson.

• 2:53Ed Elson?

  In 1991, one woman forever changed the makeup industry with a bold mission to enhance, not alter, a woman's natural beauty. Her approach redefined how we think about makeup, and her name became synonymous with innovation all over the world. After building a billion dollar brand, she stepped away from the company to return to her entrepreneurial roots. She has succeeded as a makeup artist, an entrepreneur, a television personality, and a writer. As a true legend in the industry, she continues to reshape the beauty landscape, this time with Jones Road, a new makeup company built on the idea of clean beauty. This is my conversation

• 3:34Ed Elson?

  with Bobby Brown, the founder of Bobby Brown Cosmetics and Jones Road Beauty. Bobby Brown, welcome to the show.

• 3:41Speaker 08

  Oh, thank you. Nice to talk to you.

• 3:43Ed Elson?

  I think most people know the name Bobby Brown. I mean, you go and do any department store in the world, you've seen that name. I don't think as many people know the story of Bobby Brown the person. So I want to start there. And I'd love to get a sense of your childhood to begin. So Tell our audience, where did you grow up? What were you like as a kid? What were your kind of hobbies? How did this all begin?

• 4:11Speaker 08

  Well, I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago. And, you know, I just fell in love with makeup as a young kid. I used to watch in awe as my mother would get ready for dates with my dad. And she was incredibly glamorous. I never was. And how I was as a kid, I mean, pretty normal, I guess. I didn't really excel in anything. I had a lot of friends. I was, you know, very social. And, you know, when I didn't get good grades, my parents decided they should stop punishing me because I probably wouldn't amount to anything. And I think what just that meant was they just didn't see my career as, you know, a businesswoman.

• 4:52Ed Elson?

  Were you excelling in makeup? I mean, where did this makeup habit start?

• 4:57Speaker 08

  No, I did not excel in makeup. I just loved it. I just loved it. And I loved, you know, watching my mom do it. I loved playing with it. And as a middle school kid, you know, every middle school kid is insecure. And so I discovered that I could put a little bit of makeup on and look better. But I didn't want anyone to know I was wearing it, so I would mess around with it. And then when I went to college, I transferred a couple of times. I thought college was so boring and I didn't want to go to school. And my mother said, you can't drop out. You have to do something. Mom, I have no idea what I want to do. She said, okay, pretend it's your birthday. You could do anything you want. What would you want to do? And I just, I thought for a nanosecond. And I said, I'd love to go play with makeup at the department store.

• 5:41Speaker 08

  She said, there it is, be a makeup artist. And I said, I don't want to go to beauty school. She said, I'm sure there's a college. And I found a college that let me make up my own major. And that's where I went to school. No idea what I was going to do with this major of Bachelor of Fine Arts, but I got one.

• 5:57Ed Elson?

  And so then you moved to New York City, right? Where you're working as a freelance makeup artist. Did you know at that point that that was going to be your career in the beauty industry, doing makeup?

• 6:09Speaker 08

  I thought that was going to be my career. I never thought anything past being a makeup artist. And You know, when I moved to New York, I didn't know anyone and there was no internet to even figure out who anyone was. So I would go stand at newspaper stands and look in the magazines and see who was, who were the people I should call, which I did and, you know, opened up the Yellow Pages and saw, you know, looked under makeup. And I started just putting a portfolio together. And I thought, you know, my dream is to have a Vogue cover. I wanted to be, do makeup for a Vogue cover. It took me seven years and I got a Vogue cover. So I started, you know, this great career, editorial career,

• 6:49Speaker 08

  being with all the fabulous people and traveling a bunch. And I made a name for myself, never thinking or knowing where it was going to lead.

• 6:58Ed Elson?

  And then you started your company, Bobby Brown Cosmetics.

• 7:02Speaker 08

  But it wasn't really a company because I didn't start, I didn't really start a company. So what had happened was I fell in love and I didn't want to travel anymore because I didn't, I would have missed my, you know, then fiance. And so we moved to New Jersey, believe it or not, from New York, which was pretty, you know, out of the box because no one did that back then. And I just said, I can't keep traveling. And I met a chemist at a shoot and I said, I've always wanted to make a lipstick that looked like lips. And so I made a lipstick and I'm like, wow, this is cool. I bet people will buy this. And I started selling it. I never thought I would be a big brand. I

• 7:44Speaker 08

  never thought I would be a no name. I never thought anything. I just, wow, this is a cool lipstick. I'm usually in the moment.

• 7:52Ed Elson?

  Yeah, you mentioned that, you know, you wanted to make a lipstick that looked like lips, which today I don't think sounds like a very controversial statement. But back then, interestingly, it was. And I think the thing that you are Known for in the industry, what you pioneered was this natural look. This idea of making your face not as made up as it used to be. I mean, for those of us who like, don't know about this, and I have to admit, I'm sort of one of these people. What did makeup look like before you? What was new about this natural look?

• 8:27Speaker 08

  Well, first of all, you know, when you would, a makeup artist would do someone's makeup for a magazine, or if you went into a department store and you would put this foundation on that was whitish or pinkish or just ashy. And then you'd have to put all this makeup on top that was so bright and garish, you'd have to blend it. And by the time you're done, it just looked, the best way to describe it is artificial. It just didn't look natural. And for some reason, even back then, when the girls walked in the shoots or washed their faces and left, I realized they looked so much better. Like, so I started doing makeup that looked like them. Like, I would use a blush, sounds crazy, that was the color of their cheeks when you pinched them.

• 9:09Speaker 08

  I would use a foundation, how about this for a, you know, an aho moment? Like, a foundation that was the color of your skin. No one did that.

• 9:18Ed Elson?

  What do people think when you come in there and you say, I want to, you know, make it look the same color as their skin as it is now? Did people say, well, that doesn't make any sense? Did they say, that's not the point of this industry?

• 9:28Speaker 08

  Many of them said, you're never going to work if this is the kind of makeup you do. People, this is not what's in. And I'm like, yeah, but I like it. And there were some photographers didn't hire me again because I didn't do that kind of makeup that, you know, sometimes bordered on the drag queen makeup. It just wasn't my style, it wasn't my aesthetics. However, I loved when I worked with creative people that would push me to get out of my comfort zone and do something very strong and avant garde, but it was still my style. So that was kind of how I honed my skills.

• 10:03Ed Elson?

  And then within a few years, I mean, you start selling this lipstick at Bergdorf Goodman and it starts doing really well. And then it's kind of like this smash hit in a very short period of time. So what were some of those big wins that you experienced in those few years back in the early 90s when Bobby Brown Cosmetics was really doing well?

• 10:22Speaker 08

  I also had two children by then and, you know, lived out of the city. So I was a working mom commuting back and forth to the city. So, you know, it was a whirlwind, truthfully, you know, two boys that were two years apart and a husband that was in law school and this company that had taken off. So it was pretty incredible. And I'm not sure how I got through it, except I just am the kind of person, I get through things. I'm like, oh, that didn't work. Let me do it this way. So I've always been resilient that way. It was exciting. It was fun. And I started doing less magazine shoots in favor of doing things that will promote the makeup. So, you know, going on the Today

• 11:05Speaker 08

  Show, I became the beauty editor and I taught women how to be a makeup artist and they would end up running to a counter to buy makeup. So, you know, it really took off. And I guess it was four and a half years after Bobby Brown Cosmetics started that we sold it.

• 11:21Ed Elson?

  Were you surprised by how well it did?

• 11:25Speaker 08

  I was not. I was excited. I was thrilled. And I really thought what I was doing was better than anything on the market.

• 11:32Ed Elson?

  Yeah.

• 11:32Speaker 08

  I don't know if I'm cocky. I don't know if I'm naive. I just think what I do is better. You know, I can't help it until I think something really sucks. And I'm like, all right, that was terrible.

• 11:45Ed Elson?

  Yeah.

• 11:45Speaker 08

  You know, I go both ways, but I was excited and I was really busy, really busy, both at work and at home.

• 11:52Ed Elson?

  And what's amazing is how quickly this all happened. So this was like around four or five years after you launched this company, then you get this call from Estee Lauder.

• 12:03Ed Elson?

  Who were looking to buy it? What happened there?

• 12:05Speaker 08

  Well, we were beating them in the stores. You know, we were number one in Bergdorf and Neiman's and, you know, Lauter always was. So they went and they said, who is this? What is this? And we weren't for sale, but we ended up selling the company. And I stayed as an employee, a corporate employee for 22 years.

• 12:25Ed Elson?

  And it was about almost a hundred million dollars. Was that a difficult decision?

• 12:33Speaker 08

  No, it was not a difficult decision. My husband and I had business partners that were a little bit difficult. And so I never felt I sold to Estee Lauder. I sold to Leonard Lauter. And he just, you know, became my biggest supporter. And he just, I knew he supported me. I knew he believed in me and he, I felt he was my partner. And he introduced us, my husband and I, to so many things and we, and the partners. And we couldn't have done it without, you know, Estee Lauder. We didn't, we didn't know. And also he said, probably the thing that made the most sense to me. He said, I know what's important to you and that's being a mom and, and being with your kids.

• 13:17Speaker 08

  And we can help you have both worlds where we could do the things that you don't really care about. And you could be as involved and as in charge as you want.

• 13:27Ed Elson?

  What was that like to meet Leonard Lauter, who's kind of this icon in the beauty industry? I mean, considering how quick your rise was and then you're suddenly catapulted up there. Then I assume you're meeting and having meals with this titan of the industry. How did that feel?

• 13:46Speaker 08

  Well, it was so, so cool, first of all. And, and anyone that knows Leonard, he is the warmest, nicest guy, so inclusive, making sure you're okay, making sure everything's working. So, you know, you don't get business partners like that very often. So it was, it was amazing. And we would go to all of his, you know, his art shows and openings and galas and sit at his table. And, you know, it was for Stephen and I, we would just be like, this is so interesting. You know, met, met great people.

• 14:20Ed Elson?

  And then in 2016, you decided to leave. Was it hard to leave this company that you'd built yourself?

• 14:28Speaker 08

  It was hard and it was really easy because, you know, for so many of the years, things were great. And there was a whole bunch of years that things were not great. It was not an overnight decision. It was a lot of angst and agony. And, you know, eventually it just, it reached a point and it was like, okay, done. And it was tough and not easy after I left to kind of figure out, who am I? What am I going to do? Am I going to be a one hit wonder? You know, what am I going to do with my time? Like, I didn't need to work, but I also didn't need to learn how to play golf or tennis or anything.

• 15:07Ed Elson?

  Yeah, what did you do with your time right after that?

• 15:09Speaker 08

  I started a bunch of new businesses. I, you know, that's what I did. I had, my husband and I developed a hotel in Montclair called The George. We have a photo studio and event studio called 18 Label. I started a line of supplements and wellness that I launched with Walmart. I went back to being a makeup artist. I filmed a masterclass. I mean, I did a lot of interesting things until my non-compete was up. And I didn't know I was going to have another beauty company, but I did.

• 15:45Ed Elson?

  We'll be right back.

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• 19:30Ed Elson?

  We're back with first-time founders. So we'll just fast-forward here to your latest beauty company, which is Jones Road. Which you launched on October 26, 2020, which was the exact day that your 25-year non-compete with Estee Lauder ended. So my question was gonna be, was this always part of the plan? I mean, it certainly looks like it, but you say, no, you didn't know.

• 19:59Speaker 08

  Well, the plan of when I was gonna launch it came after I realized I wanted to do something again. And I kept everything under wraps because I had a non-compete. So I worked on a couple products with a very small team of one. And I wasn't sure how I was gonna launch it. At first, I said, well, I'll just launch it on Etsy. I'll start selling a pencil on Etsy. I'll start. And I had a four-and-a-half-year left on a 25 years when I left the brand. That's a really long time for someone that doesn't have a lot of patience. Everybody just said, wait, just wait. Wait till your free, wait till your non-compete is up. And we did. And you know, think about it, we launched the day the non-compete was up.

• 20:43Speaker 08

  And that was one week before the then presidential election in the middle of the pandemic, in the middle of all the social unrest. And everyone said, don't do it. Every PR guru I talked to said, you're out of your mind. You're out of your mind. And I just didn't listen, just like I didn't listen when they told me I need to do a different kind of makeup. It just felt right. I'm like, no, this feels right.

• 21:05Ed Elson?

  I mean, I think about this with my own work too, where it's like, I find that the best stuff is the stuff that I truly believe is good. And I'm just kind of convinced by it and I'm not, I'm not really sure why. And you've sort of done that over and over again. Where do you think that comes from?

• 21:23Speaker 08

  Well, it's not that I don't listen because I listen to what they say, but then I decide what's right for me. And I, I, I hear you, I hear you, I hear you, but I want to do this and I think it's right. I don't know where it comes. I don't know where my gut comes. My gut is not always right. It's often right and it's many times wrong. So I just, no, this makes sense. Why not? And I'm also someone that I'm, I don't believe in failure. Like, so what? We do something and we say, well, that was really dumb. That didn't work. All right, well, let me do something else. That taught me that I can't do this again. So I just start again, wipe, you know, brush myself off and say, let's go do this.

• 22:07Ed Elson?

  This company, Jones Road, is the opposite of a failure. I mean, I'm just looking at the financials here that have floated around online. My understanding is that Jones Road did $20 million in revenue in its first year. And then last year, it was around $150 million in revenue.

• 22:26Speaker 08

  Fifty seven.

• 22:27Ed Elson?

  Hundred and fifty seven. There we go. What do you think has made this company such a success?

• 22:34Speaker 08

  Oh my God, it's not just me. You know, I mean, I'm certainly part of it. And what I, again, what I believe in is making makeup that when you put it on, you just look better. I mean, a stupid concept, right? No, that's why people wear makeup. And I don't listen to all the noise out there of what should be done or what other people are doing, because that's great for them. And yeah, there's a market for makeup, you know, to contour and overline your lips and, you know, do all those crazy things. It's just not my market. But there's enough people that just want to look better. And, you know, the hashtag I started when we launched Jones Road, which no one uses except

• 23:17Speaker 08

  me, because I guess no one uses hashtags anymore, was how not to look like shit. Like, that's why I wear makeup, because I'm like, I just look like shit. What am I doing here?

• 23:27Ed Elson?

  When you look back at Bobby Brown Cosmetics, which you launched in 1990, and then you look at Jones Road, which you launched 30 years later in 2020, what would you say are like the main differences in the beauty industry back then compared to today? Like, what are some things in your overall strategy that you had to change just because we're living in a new era?

• 23:53Speaker 08

  Right. Well, so many things. First of all, distribution. You know, we're not in department stores. I'm in one store in the world. We are in one store in the world, and that's Liberty in London, because it's Liberty. I mean, there's no other store like that. And I think also just doing things differently. So our, our current CEO happens to be this mastermind of digital marketing. Weirdly enough, he also happens to be my second son, which was, is just the weirdest thing to think that this kid who didn't really care a thing about makeup, but he and his, you know, like, just really made a huge difference.

• 24:35Speaker 08

  And now he's running the company. I mean, he has finance reporting to him. He has, I think, I'm not sure if he reports to me or I report to him. It depends. You know, who you talk to, but and his wife is our head of brand. So weirdly enough, we have turned into a family business. My husband is the, you know, the head of our board and, you know, my other kids are there when I need their opinion, which they're very loudly give to me. And, you know, it's just, the world is different. And I think it's so interesting to do things different ways, to market it different ways, to talk to your customer, the way you would talk to a friend and not have layers. That's the

• 25:15Speaker 08

  biggest thing. Not have layers and not waste time, energy and money on consultants that you don't need.

• 25:23Ed Elson?

  What do you mean by layers?

• 25:24Speaker 08

  Oh, my God, to get something approved, you know, at the height of my career at the big corporate company, there was people that you just had to get all these people's opinion on from all the different departments and corporate and internal. And now it's, you know, I make the final say on some things. Cody makes the final say on other things. And, you know, we, we work it together. So you have a conversation, you hash it out, and then a decision is made.

• 25:52Ed Elson?

  Yeah, it does feel that direct to consumer is this, or maybe we just call it direct, this idea of getting rid of all of the intermediaries, whether it means trying to make a corporate decision and then having it go through this long chain and then finally being spat out at the other end. Companies are trying to get rid of that. And then we're also seeing it in, you know, marketing and entertainment where, you know, podcasts like ourselves, we're just putting our stuff direct out to our audience. It feels like this is sort of a new trend. And it does seem, I mean, you're almost 100% D to C at Jones Road. How do you create that culture in your company? Like, how do you keep those

• 26:34Ed Elson?

  layers from getting into the, into the structure? And how do you keep everything as direct as you have it now?

• 26:41Speaker 08

  We're pretty lean. We're pretty scrappy. And we tend to hire, you know, I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing, but, you know, younger people with less history of experience.

• 26:54Speaker 08

  I mean, our creative director, it's her first job. And she's phenomenal and she's, I don't even think she's 27 yet. I don't know, she might have just turned 27. And she's just talented. And so, you know, there's sometimes that gets frustrating because people don't have the experience, you know, and the, and I'm not going to say the maturity, but the experience to say, okay, wait, you know, this has to be done or that has to be done. But they're learning, you know, they're learning and I'm learning, by the way, that it's my job to not only expect them to do it, but also to teach them. Like, okay, let's look at this. Wouldn't it make more sense if we did this two months earlier? And not the day before?

• 27:36Speaker 08

  I keep getting like things to approve on my, I'm like, oh my God, it has to go up tomorrow. I have to look at it now. And, but, you know, whatever, it's just, it's a new world. And, and in order to be successful now is you have to like, just be different and, and, and just be open and scrappy and not waste money.

• 27:55Ed Elson?

  Just going back to the differences between then and now. I mean, you're in this unique position. You started two successful companies in the same category in totally different times. And I'd be interested to know your, to understand your views on just how, what role is social media playing in the beauty industry today? And how important is it for your strategy?

• 28:21Speaker 08

  Well, it's super important and for us, it's very authentic. And I have actually had a couple podcasts that I was a host of. I'm not anymore. And, you know, I think all those things just brings you to a new audience. And the health of any company are, yes, your existing customers, but you're, you know, you're new customers. So for me, doing new media is super important. I opened a Substack last year. You know, there was three people that read it and now it's, it's growing and now everyone's talking about Substack. So TikTok was huge for us. It quadrupled our business. We had a couple of, a bunch of viral

• 29:02Speaker 08

  moments. And, you know, we're not doing that anymore because that's not working the way it was. So you kind of have to shift and be open. And Cody is a very big proponent in our digital marketing and ad spend. So I don't know exactly what he does. I don't even know how much he spends. I just know that, you know, we have healthy sales and I know people that watch cable TV tell me they see my commercial. I don't watch cable news, but apparently it's on every cable show. So especially in Florida, everyone stops me and says, I saw you on CNN. I saw you on Fox. I saw you on, and everyone yells at me like, why are you on CNN? Why are you on Fox? I'm like, all right, everyone just stop. It's just makeup.

• 29:48Ed Elson?

  Yeah, I mean, it's so funny. You've, you've basically found success in every, every entertainment medium or every, every digital channel or TV channel, every medium. You succeeded as a makeup artist. You've been a successful entrepreneur. You've been, you know, you've written several successful books. I, I kind of just think of you as, yes, a makeup artist, but more importantly, just a serial achiever in just, it sounds like whatever you put your mind to. So this is kind of a trite question, but I, I do think it's important. What do you think is the secret to your success? Why do you think you have been successful in all of these different realms?

• 30:33Speaker 08

  Well, I actually have an answer. I, I, that I believe there's two things. One is I'm incredibly naive. Like, I don't think it's not going to work. I don't think I'm too old. I don't think I'm too short. I don't think I'm, you know, too anything. And the other thing is, I'm really good at knowing what I have no idea what to do. And I hire people that do it. So I've written nine books. I don't know nine or 10, I forget. I don't know how to type. Okay, and I've written nine books. And half of the books, by the way, I photographed first and then I wrote the books to the pictures. So I just figured out if I do things the Bobby way, for me, it works better. And by the way, when people work with me, they either get me or they don't.

• 31:18Speaker 08

  So I am writing a book now and I take a screenshot of the pages and I send the screenshot to someone. And the screenshot is a pen that I took to the paper and all the changes. And someone has to retype it and send it back and then I do it again. So that is not for the faint of heart.

• 31:36Ed Elson?

  Yeah, it's also called incredibly good delegation.

• 31:40Speaker 08

  Yes, but and micromanaging in the same way.

• 31:44Ed Elson?

  We'll be right back.

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• 34:06Ed Elson?

  We're back with first-time founders. You've also built, in addition to these brands you've built in the beauty industry, you've also built this personal brand. Like, people know Bobby Brown. They see you on TV. They read your books. For whatever reason, Bobby Brown, the person, is intriguing to people. I'd love to just know more about that. Was this intentional? Do you think of yourself as a brand? Do you try to brand yourself?

• 34:38Speaker 08

  I don't try to do anything, and I don't think of myself as a brand. And I think why people relate to me is because my...

• 34:48Speaker 08

  I'm exactly the same way on TV and in interviews as I am if I was at your house. And I'm real and authentic. I mean, I've, you know, I talk about my three sons, you know, more than I talk about my business. Like if someone says, how are you doing? I mean, it's about my kids. It's the most important thing. My marriage of 36 years, the most important thing.

• 35:10Ed Elson?

  It feels like the beauty industry is an industry where this is uniquely important, like the role of celebrities and influencers. And I think about all of the beauty brands that have risen in the last few years that are started by celebrities. Like you've got Kylie Jenner's company and Rihanna has one of the biggest makeup companies in the world and Selena Gomez. Like, this is a very celebrity-heavy industry. And I'm wondering if that is a new phenomenon. Did the beauty industry look like that several years ago, you know, back when you were building Bobbi Brown Cosmetics? And if not,

• 35:53Ed Elson?

  why has this influencer culture emerged in this industry?

• 35:58Speaker 08

  Well, it's funny, you mentioned three of the celebrities that have substantial brands and something, it's not just their name. Like, they have a point of view and, you know, they're doing well for a reason. There's a lot of celebrities that their name is attached to it, but there's no real, there's no real connection, or the products aren't good. Like, it's, the products have to be good to be able to have a brand. And when I was first starting, there was no celebrity brands. There was no makeup artists that had brands. You know, there was Elizabeth Taylor, who was the face of, you know, whatever Revlon it was, or, you know, models and actresses that were paid by companies to be their spokes, I think they called them spokespeople.

• 36:39Ed Elson?

  Spokespeople. That's funny.

• 36:41Speaker 08

  Right. I mean, I think that's what it was. And they were in all the ads and all of that. They were, they didn't own the brands. I mean, now I do think it's pretty amazing and cool that so many celebrities, actresses, you know, retired sports players now can have their own thing because, you know, a lot of careers are done when you're 30. And so it's good, you know, I think it's a wonderful thing that people could be an entrepreneur and business people as they get older. I look at my dear friend, Michael Strahan, you know, who was a retired football player and the guy has blown up, you know, talk about a personal brand. So it doesn't always work and it's not easy. That's the thing. People

• 37:21Speaker 08

  think it's easy. None of it is easy. It requires constant work. And when things don't work, you need to push back and say, okay, things are not working. Now, what do we do?

• 37:31Ed Elson?

  Do you think it's essential today to have that level of digital, social influencer presence for a consumer brand like Jones Road or any of these other beauty companies? Like, is, is it essential that you have a big following somewhere to successfully launch a, a consumer product like this?

• 37:52Speaker 08

  I would say it's pretty essential and pretty important. And, you know, the main thing you want to do is to have people know about you or discover you through whatever. And, you know, social media, if you're not overspending on, you know, hiring companies to come in and do everything, it's pretty much free, you know? So we now have, I think we have two people now in our social media department where we used to have, you know, none. And whoever was around would be helping and doing it. And some brands have 30 people and have agencies. So, you know, it all depends what's right for you. And I guess because

• 38:32Speaker 08

  they have me, they don't need to have a spokesperson that they pay. I'm kind of a big spokesperson for it. And, you know, we have a, look, we have an, an opportunity to reach a younger consumer. I don't know, do the 30 year olds know about me? I don't know. You know, how do we reach them?

• 38:52Ed Elson?

  I should take it.

• 38:53Speaker 08

  I don't know, you know, but so, you know, you always think about that.

• 38:57Ed Elson?

  What are your views on social media in general? Does it make you anxious? Does it make you excited? Like, do you feel overall positive or negative on the way we're headed into this digital world?

• 39:11Speaker 08

  I think both. I mean, I'm glad I don't have three young daughters because I think it would be really hard. I mean, it was hard enough when you didn't get invited to a party when you were a kid. And to see the party and all your friends online, you know, is tough. And, you know, when I see certain activations that brand has done that I didn't get invited to, by the way, I don't want to go. I just wanted to be invited. So I'm like, oh, I didn't get invited to that. You know, right. I mean, we all feel like that. So I'm like, yeah, okay. You know, I think it kind of you, I take it with a grain of salt. And I think the positive thing is the way that I I personally connect with people. I've booked models. I've found beautiful women who are posting exercise pictures of them.

• 39:55Speaker 08

  And, okay, would you, if I send you makeup, do you want to try it? And then they, you know, they start posting. So we've developed a community of people. We have a Facebook group. It's called The Roadies. You know, Jones Road, The Roadies. Last, last count, there was 66,000 of them. 66,000. And if you go on there and you see these women talk to each other. And if someone says, I can't use this because of this. 22 people say, no, no, no, you're using it wrong. Let me show you. I mean, and if I need to know something, what other colors do you want me to put out? Oh, my God, I get flooded with the list. So, you know, I personally use that as my market research.

• 40:37Speaker 08

  And my community that, you know, will tell me what they like and what they don't like.

• 40:42Ed Elson?

  Well, Bobby, you've been very generous with your time. Thank you. You have your first short television series on YouTube coming out a few days after this episode airs. You want to tell us a little bit about the show and how it came about?

• 40:53Speaker 08

  Sure. It's called I Am Me, and that's the brand pillar of Jones Road, which is teaching women, like, you know, I'm not trying to change you into someone else. You're fine the way you are. I mean, makeup is a nice tool to make you feel more like yourself. And this started because we hosted at the George Hotel a Women of Influence sleepover with women like Gloria Steinem and Deborah Roberts and all these amazing women where we talked about body image and hair and all these different things. And we spent 24 hours together and it was incredible. I wanted to figure out a way how to bring this to a larger audience. So it's being sponsored by JP Morgan. So the conversations, they're 10 to 15 minute conversations.

• 41:37Speaker 08

  And they're going to be about confidence, self-esteem, and being comfortable with your career, your money. Because, you know, how men and women, you know, we're not that different that way. How we feel about ourselves and how we feel about our careers and are very, they're very kind of hand in hand.

• 41:56Ed Elson?

  Yeah, just while we're on that and to wrap up, confidence, you are an extremely confident person.

• 42:04Ed Elson?

  Where does confidence come from? How can people be more confident in their daily lives?

• 42:10Speaker 08

  I realized, probably not until I was in my 50s, what is confidence? Everyone talks about it. How do I become confident? It's really simple. Just be comfortable in who your skin and who you are. When you realize this is who I am, take it or leave it, that's being confident. You know, I tried to change, but it didn't work. So being myself kind of fit the best.

• 42:33Ed Elson?

  Bobby Brown is the founder of Jones Road Beauty. She is a legend of the beauty industry. Bobby, this was so fun. Thank you for joining the show. This was a real treat for us.

• 42:44Speaker 08

  Oh, my pleasure.

• 42:50Ed Elson?

  Our producer is Claire Miller. Our associate producer is Alison Weiss and our engineer is Benjamin Spencer. Thank you for listening to First Time Founders from the Vox Media Podcast Network. Tune in tomorrow for Profite Market.