Money for Couples — ft. Ramit Sethi

Scott and Ed open the show by discussing the Surgeon General’s report linking alcohol and cancer, the ongoing ski patrol strike at Park City Resort, and Meta’s new board members. Then Ramit Sethi, bestselling author of “I Will Teach You to Be Rich” and the brand new book, “Money For Couples,” joins the show to discuss how couples should navigate their finances. He explains what he thinks is the ultimate financial red flag, and why he believes couples should have joint bank accounts. Ramit also breaks down how much couples should spend on weddings – and reveals what he thinks about prenups. Order "The Algebra of Wealth," out now Subscribe to No Mercy / No Malice Follow the podcast across socials @profgpod: Instagram Threads X Reddit Follow Scott on Instagram Follow Ed on Instagram and X Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed sponsored jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. That's indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 0:30Scott Galloway?

  Today's number, $1.3 million. That's how much a 600 pound tuna sold for on Tokyo's fish market Sunday morning. Ed, true story. When I was with my ex-wife, we would sit in bed and I would switch between the porn channel and the fishing channel. And finally she said, let's just watch the porn channel. And I said, oh, feeling a little frisky tonight, huh? And she said, no, you already know how to fish.

• 1:02Scott Galloway?

  Welcome to Prop G Markets. In today's episode, which is presented by Funrise, interesting segue. We're speaking with Ramit Sethi, bestselling author of I Will Teach You To Be Rich and the brand new book, Money For Couples. Ed, it's 2025. You learning to fish? What's going on, my brother? What's going on?

• 1:24Ed Elson?

  I'm doing very well, Scott. Feeling relaxed, ready to crush 2025. How was South Africa? We all need to know.

• 1:31Scott Galloway?

  It was great. Cape Town's wonderful. It was time. I'm in that part of my life where I'm freaking out about my boys potentially leaving the house. So that was a lot of games and gotten my oldest into working out. We worked out every day, which was a ton of fun. And my youngest is still, you know, a terrorist, assessing the household for weaknesses so he can strike when we're most vulnerable. But he's, he's still a lot of fun. He's interesting, I'll give him that. And a surprising number of their friends were down there, which was interesting. A lot of Brits spent time in Cape Town, yeah, from South Africa. And it's a beautiful country. And then we went on safari with my sister and her kids, which is awesome because they're the same age as my kids. So yeah, all in all, really

• 2:15Scott Galloway?

  nice. What did you do for Christmas and New Year's?

• 2:17Ed Elson?

  I was in, I was back in.

• 2:19Scott Galloway?

  I don't care. Let's get right to the news. Let's get right to the news. No, I'm sorry. Go ahead. What'd you?

• 2:23Ed Elson?

  Right into that trap. I was in London, saw my family, which was very nice. And then I went to Turks and Caicos, which was

• 2:31Scott Galloway?

  Really?

• 2:32Ed Elson?

  Great.

• 2:32Scott Galloway?

  Someone's trying to impress a lady.

• 2:34Ed Elson?

  Actually, other way around. I was brought to Turks and Caicos. So I went with my girlfriend and her family.

• 2:41Scott Galloway?

  Ah, so you're on your, so it was nice, but you were on your best behavior.

• 2:44Ed Elson?

  That's right. That's exactly right.

• 2:47Scott Galloway?

  And you get along with her family?

• 2:48Ed Elson?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:49Scott Galloway?

  Oh, yeah. I'm lying. I know them in case they listen. In case they listen. They're wonderful people.

• 2:55Ed Elson?

  No, I did. I had a really nice time. It was, it was, it was

• 3:00Scott Galloway?

  You're something out of central casting for like your daughter dating someone. They, I would bet before they left, they sat her or before she went, they sat her down and said, we're really, we really are supportive of this relationship. We're really supportive of this relationship. They are hoping so much that she sticks this out.

• 3:19Ed Elson?

  That it sticks around.

• 3:20Scott Galloway?

  Ed, get to the headlines.

• 3:24Scott Galloway?

  Now it's been time to fly. I hope you have plenty of the well at all.

• 3:31Ed Elson?

  Alcohol stocks fell after the surgeon general released a report highlighting a link between alcohol and cancer. The surgeon general also called for warning labels on alcoholic beverages similar to those found on cigarettes. A ski patrol strike at Park City Resort has caused long lines and closures as the union demands an hourly wage increase from $21 to $23. Shares of the resort's parent company, Vail Resorts, have dropped 7% since the strike started, and that has wiped out more than $400 million in market value. And finally, Meta has appointed UFC president and CEO Dana White to its board of directors. The company also added a former Microsoft executive and the CEO of a European investment company,

• 4:15Ed Elson?

  Exor, to its board. Scott, your thoughts, starting with this drawdown in alcohol stocks after that pretty insane report from the surgeon general about alcohol and cancer risk?

• 4:27Scott Galloway?

  We predicted this.

• 4:30Scott Galloway?

  Diageo, the alcohol guys, oh my god. These stocks, in my opinion, are gonna get absolutely hammered. We could see alcohol really taking on the chin. So this was, you know, of course I didn't act on this, but we saw this one coming. This was pretty easy. I mean, this is just the sum of all fears for drinks, the drinks industry. It's like, I've always thought momentum has its own momentum, and that is when something bad happens to you, get ready for number two or number three bad thing to happen to you. And then the same on the upside, when good things happen, it's like the universe is listening and more good things happen. But the drinks industry has just had the perfect storm of bad things. And that is, it's not only been shown to be really unhealthy for you, it feels like some of the most popular podcasters in the world have declared war on alcohol.

• 5:15Scott Galloway?

  And then you have this trend amongst young people where the number of people who report not drinking is inversely correlated to their age. And that is, the younger you go, the less they're drinking. And I've noticed this, there's both empirical and anecdotal evidence, as when I go out and whenever I'm with young people, I'm just struck at how little they drink. And they still love to get high, but they're getting high with different things. And these companies are responding in terms of not alcoholic drinks. But AB Inbev, Molson Coors, Heineken, and Diageo have collectively shed over $55 billion in market capitalization over the past year. Where I'll wrap up here, and I'd love to get your thoughts as a young person, I don't

• 5:58Scott Galloway?

  really know much about your drinking habits, but I've said, my most, I think my most popular TikTok of the year was I said, I think young people should go out and drink more. And I'm sincere in that I think young people are finding too many reasons not to engage with other people and find friends and find mentors and find potential mates. And I realize this doesn't reflect well on me, but it's a true reflection, and that is, many or most of my best friendships, professional and romantic relationships, alcohol played a big role, especially in my twenties and thirties. And I'm not suggesting that you don't tone down the alcohol if it's getting in the way of your life. But when you're young and you have a liver that can process alcohol, my advice is to

• 6:42Scott Galloway?

  get out of the house, drink, I jokingly said, drink more, make a series of bad decisions that might pay off, because...

• 6:49Scott Galloway?

  While Huberman and Atia, who I love and I listen to both their podcasts and they've both been on my podcast, see drunkenness, I see togetherness. And so this is both interesting culturally, socially, and also economically in terms of these companies getting just hammered. But I find with most young people, I would argue, and there's some context here, that the risk is worth it.

• 7:13Ed Elson?

  Well, let's just go over some of the key numbers in the report. So first is the most important one. Alcohol consumption is a cause of 100,000 cases of cancer in America every year. And to put that in context, there are roughly 1.8 million cancer cases annually in America. So 100,000 is actually really high. That's more than 5% of all cases. So I think the conclusion with this report is it's not like this is like kind of a minor correlation. This is like a very clear case of causation. The more you drink, the more you at risk you are of procuring cancer. It's very, it's very bad. Now, the question

• 7:55Ed Elson?

  for me is, is this going to be the straw that breaks the alcohol industry's back? Is this sort of the moment of reckoning for alcohol? I'll use myself as anecdotal evidence. I'm not going to stop drinking. I don't know about you, but I saw, I've read this and I know it's serious, but the idea, I mean, alcohol just brings too much joy to my life. It's too important socially and my social life, I consider to be a massive part of my existence. I'm, I'm super down to not binge drink. And I mean, I didn't really binge drink to begin with, but this isn't enough for me to cut it out entirely. And I would

• 8:38Ed Elson?

  argue that that's probably the case with a lot of people. I mean, 63% of Americans still drink today, and that is only slightly lower than where it was 20 years ago. So, you know, the stocks are down. I think people are correctly asking questions like, is this the big moment? Is this like the cigarette and tobacco moment? But, I mean, I'd throw it back to you. Are you going to stop drinking because of this?

• 9:01Scott Galloway?

  I'm like, I quote Winston Churchill, and that is, I've gotten more out of alcohol than it's gotten out of me. And the majority of people know how to regulate their substance and alcohol intake. And I think it's important that everybody do a regular audit of what they should do less of or more of to enhance their life and their health. And if you're smoking too much pot or having too much processed food, you should address those things. Or alcohol. Alcohol does ruin people's lives, or some people's lives. The majority of people, I would argue, it is either a neutral or an enhancement. Now, having said that, I have dramatically reduced my alcohol intake over the last year.

• 9:41Scott Galloway?

  It's very context dependent, but my major takeaway here is that I think alcohol for young people can add value. And I'm just not one of these people who is an anti-alcohol person. I'm not. I would probably consider myself pro-alcohol, more as a lubricant for being what I'll call very pro-social when you're your age. But also recognizing, just as you adjust your spending, your investing, your workouts, everything, as you get older, you need to adjust your approach to substances. And I have adjusted dramatically.

• 10:16Ed Elson?

  Absolutely. Let's move on to this ski patrol strike that's happening in Park City, Utah. I mean, the big number that people are talking about is $900,000 because that is how much it would have cost Vail Resorts to just meet the wage demands of the ski patrol and just increase the hourly wages by $2. Instead, they refused, and it wiped out $400 million in market value. It's pretty astounding. Do you have any thoughts on what's happening in Utah?

• 10:45Scott Galloway?

  Yeah, this is the kind of thing that people should get fired for. This is just such a tone deaf decision. And I hope this is an opportunity for them. You know, a crisis is a terrible thing to waste. They should go out and say, we screwed up here and we're giving them raises and we're giving people across our other divisions, the people who work in the restaurant. Because I've seen, I go to these resorts, the amount of money they charge is so insane. I remember, I couldn't afford to ski when I was a kid, and I went skiing for the first time, and I remember... I saved and my mom, I saved, the ski weekend was going to cost $52 for lift tickets and the bus up there with my high school, university high school.

• 11:29Scott Galloway?

  And then I had another $40 for food and everything. So basically I got to just go skiing at Mammoth Mountain for the weekend for a total of $93. Now granted, this was 1911, but I mean, actually it was the late 80s. But anyways, my point is now you go to Aspen or you go to Vail, the lift tickets are like 130 or 160 bucks.

• 11:49Ed Elson?

  Oh, no, no, more than that. Single day pass for Park City Mountain, which is where the shutdowns have happened, is $328.

• 11:56Scott Galloway?

  What?

• 11:57Ed Elson?

  And that is more than three times the average in Europe. I think what this actually brings up is a big question about monopoly power and monopoly abuse.

• 12:07Scott Galloway?

  Great point.

• 12:08Ed Elson?

  Because the big shift that happened in skiing in the past decade was the fact that a duopoly has arrived, held by Vail Resorts and its only competitor, which is this company called Altera Mountain Company. And those two companies own basically all of the ski mountains in America.

• 12:23Scott Galloway?

  I had no idea that essentially this was a duopoly, but where I was headed was, you know, I do remember being that kid and my mom, you know, after Little League practice or we'd win a game and everyone was headed to Dairy Queen or Farrell's, like my mom kind of shuffling me into the car because we didn't have the money to kind of blow on whatever it was, right? And I remember that feeling. And I had one of those experiences when I was at Buttermilk, which is supposed to be kind of more of a kid friendly place. And I ski there because it's more kid friendly because it's easy or it's not as aggressive a mountain. And I think to myself, how on earth would any middle-class family ever be able to experience skiing? They just, they can't.

• 13:08Scott Galloway?

  It's just, it's been sequestered to wealthy people, this cool way to spend time with your family and be outdoors. And I thought, this has just got to be so discouraging for a family that gets up on the mountain and leaves the mountain, you know, $1,800 lighter.

• 13:26Scott Galloway?

  And does the math on the drive home like, Jesus Christ, I gotta work two and a half weeks for one day of skiing.

• 13:32Ed Elson?

  And waited an hour in the line to get on the lift.

• 13:35Scott Galloway?

  Yeah, it's just, it's just so kind of disheartening. And I'll go to a broader economic message here. I've been, someone reached out to me from the Democratic Party around messaging. And I'm like, it's easy. Abandon identity politics. Don't let anyone go there. Stop talking about special interest groups and the rights of special interest groups. Talk about the rights of the American middle class and how we're going to tame inflation and bring prices down through antitrust, through more competition, through strategic value. We have to make things less expensive for middle-class families. And this is a perfect example. We use this as a segue to talk about duopoly powering, because you did your homework and did good research here. But I hope these guys get kicked in the fucking nuts over

• 14:18Scott Galloway?

  this issue, because this company fucked up bigly.

• 14:23Ed Elson?

  Yeah. Our final headline here is that Mark Zuckerberg has hired three new board members to the board of Facebook, or to the board of Meta. The most interesting of which is Dana White, who is the CEO and president of the UFC. Any thoughts on this, Scott?

• 14:42Scott Galloway?

  Dana White is probably a talented executive. He's built an incredible company. That has nothing to do with why he was put on this board. He was put on this board because he's buddies with Trump.

• 14:50Ed Elson?

  Yeah.

• 14:50Scott Galloway?

  And we need to stop this bullshit and this false narrative and this jazz hands of companies pretending that they care about stakeholders, not shareholders. That was the big thing with all this bullshit ESG investing, which was nothing but marketing to get people to endure lower returns and higher fees. And that is they talk about stakeholders. And then the environment's a stakeholder, the community's a, Jesus Christ. We invest in companies where the CEO is ruthlessly, singularly, mendaciously, fuckingly focused on one thing, and that is shareholders and nothing else. And this guy put someone on the board who is close to Trump.

• 15:34Scott Galloway?

  He's also announced they're no longer fact checking, which will take their costs down and let misinformation go crazy on the platform because it's good for shareholders. And this is, Mark Zuckerberg is a brilliant person for shareholders. He's also probably done more damage to our country than anyone while making so much money. And it's our fault because we're not regulating these guys. But be clear, this has nothing, this isn't about, this isn't about the UFC or Dana White or business. This is about, oh, we're kicking out that socialist from Britain who was running our comms, Nick Clegg, and we're bringing in this famous Republican, Joel Kaplan, and we're putting Trump's buddy on the board.

• 16:16Scott Galloway?

  And I guess I'm not as shocked that Trump has gone full kleptocracy. I'm surprised how well it's working and that no one has found their testicles here. I'm waiting for a Marc Benioff or someone who is a bit, you know, an important executive just to say, what the fuck? No, we're not doing this. Anyways, I'm obviously a bit triggered by all that. I need a drink. I need a drink.

• 16:43Ed Elson?

  We'll be right back after the break with our conversation with Ramit Sethi. If you're enjoying the show so far and you haven't subscribed, be sure to give Prof G Market a follow wherever you get your podcasts.

• 17:02Speaker 00

  When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed sponsored jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. That's indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 17:37Ed Elson?

  Welcome back. Here's our conversation with Ramit Sethi, New York Times bestselling author of the personal finance guide, I Will Teach You to Be Rich, and the brand new book, Money for Couples, which actually I have right here because you sent it to me, Ramit. So, thank you for that. Great to have you on the show. Thank you for joining us once again.

• 17:55Speaker 03

  Thanks for having me back.

• 17:58Ed Elson?

  So, my first question for you, Ramit, is what is the most common argument you have witnessed about money among couples today?

• 18:08Speaker 03

  How can they spend that much? How can they? It's usually something inconsequential, like energy drinks, or spending money at Target. It's often very gendered, and it's totally irrelevant. Your $20 extra purchase at Target is not the reason that you're stressed out about money. It almost always tracks back to two expenses and one big problem. The two expenses are, people overspend on housing, they overspend on cars, they have no idea how to calculate affordability, and the real problem is they just don't have a shared vision for their rich life. So, it's not about the energy drinks, it's about those two big things.

• 18:46Scott Galloway?

  Good to see you, Ramit. So, I see two kind of unhealthy dynamics with money emerge in the couples I know, and this is pulse marketing, and you have data and written a book on it, so I'm very open to pushback. The first is, an unhealthy dynamic emerges, and that is, a lot of my friends may just because of my generation, the dude works, and the wife has been tasked with handling the household, the kids, etc., managing their life, if you will. And this dynamic emerges where the dude uses money as a means of control, and the spouse, and this will be sexist, I am a sexist, I think the genders are different, almost views it as a game to see how much she can spend. And then, on

• 19:29Scott Galloway?

  the flip side, the other dynamic I see that's also very unhealthy, is the dude digresses to some fucked up sense of gender roles, and won't acknowledge that his partner is better at that whole money thing, is more educated, more disciplined, more valued in the workplace, and isn't as supportive of her career, which would create...

• 19:49Scott Galloway?

  Absolve or relieve a lot of economic stress realizing, okay, you may have this vision that she should be barefoot and pregnant and you're the CEO, but she's quite frankly, just more professionally adept than you are. And the dude just can't wrap his masculine head around the notion that he should be more supportive of the other part of this economic relationship. Those are the two dynamics I see that really get in the way of healthy relationships. Your thoughts?

• 20:15Speaker 03

  Pretty interesting. I agree that there are gender differences. I don't think it's sexist to discuss gender and money. I think that it's sorely needed. I do agree that money and power go hand in hand. Sometimes that power is real. Sometimes it is perceived. For example, the lower earner in relationships is almost always obsessed with the C word, contribution. Am I contributing enough? I don't think I'm contributing enough. And that is because in America, that which is quantifiable is considered valuable. I totally disagree, by the way, but that is reality. Then we have men who see themselves solely defined by the P word, provider. And I ask them, who are you if you are not a provider? They are stumped.

• 21:00Speaker 03

  And this happens in particular in couples where in a heterosexual relationship, she's earning more than men. That's happening more and more often. And I ask them, who are you if you're not a provider? And again, they are so narrow in their definition, they think provider only means financial. There's so many other ways to provide, but there's very few models for that, which provides a lot of discord for couples in relationships.

• 21:22Scott Galloway?

  I mean, isn't a lot of this about alignment?

• 21:24Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 21:25Scott Galloway?

  Talk about some of those conversations that should happen early on in a relationship.

• 21:28Speaker 03

  Well, we should remember that most couples never talk about money. They actually only have four substantive conversations about money in their entire relationship. These happen, number one, if they choose to buy a house. Number two, if they have children. Number three, if one of them gets laid off because they are forced to. And number four, when they get close to retirement. That's it. There are couples who go their entire lives without actually substantively talking about it. We should acknowledge that. That is actually quite normal. I think it's really weird and highly dysfunctional, but that is, quote, normative. When you first meet somebody, you're dating. Look, don't have, don't pull out your freaking asset allocation on date one.

• 22:13Speaker 03

  That's for true nerds, but.

• 22:15Ed Elson?

  That's Scott.

• 22:17Speaker 03

  Did you do that, Scott?

• 22:18Scott Galloway?

  Hundred percent.

• 22:19Speaker 03

  Oh, God. Well.

• 22:21Scott Galloway?

  This is my portfolio. What's yours?

• 22:24Speaker 03

  All right. Well, listen, a lot of the FIRE community who talks about doing that don't have the social skills you have, Scott. So it's a little weird when you pull it out.

• 22:32Scott Galloway?

  Keep in mind, I lost, I lost my virginity at 19, so I'm not suggesting this.

• 22:36Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 22:36Scott Galloway?

  Anyways.

• 22:37Speaker 03

  When you, when you're dating, third, fourth, fifth date, you're starting to get curious about this person. You like them. That's a natural time to start asking questions about, how'd you grow up? What'd you guys do in summer? And of course, you want to know who they are. You're curious, but you're also listening. Oh, we went to Aspen every winter. Oh, that's really interesting. That probably suggests something about that family or not. Similarly, the best time to talk about money are these natural pivotal points, such as the first time you traveled together. This is what you do. You, you go and you say, look, I wanted to just shine a light on something I've been thinking about. This trip that's coming up, I'm super excited. How are you thinking about the money part of it? I've got an idea, but I'd love to hear from you and talk about it. Now, what we did in just that simple script

• 23:20Speaker 03

  is don't give away your power. Don't simply say, what do you think? Because that is how you start to let your partner dictate the financial terms of the relationship. Don't do that. You need to know your own numbers. You need to be confident through competence, but you also need to bring the topic up. That's just a natural time. One partner might say, of course, I'm going to cover it. Or another might say, well, I was thinking of staying in this Aman Hotel. And the other's like, I can't afford that. So let's discuss. Let's talk about it. You can work with a lot in a couple. If one partner has credit card debt, even if one partner sees money differently than you or spends it, we can fix all that. We can get a line. But if they are not willing to talk about money, that is the ultimate red flag.

• 24:01Ed Elson?

  How far into a relationship do you think people should start having these conversations? I know, I know you say, you know, it's good to talk about it early, but I feel like it's also possible to. To do it too early. I mean, what if, what if the couple isn't fully down and then suddenly one person comes in and is like, hey, let's talk about our future. It's like, whoa, slow it down there.

• 24:21Speaker 03

  Well, look, I come from, I've, I was raised with two different cultures, right? My parents met, seven days later, they were married. And so when you're raised in that culture, you have to be very pragmatic. Americans find that extremely uncomfortable. They're much more likely to think about Disney as their guideline. Ooh, we love each other. That's so great. We'll figure it out later. Even the couples who talk about money early, it actually changes nothing in their relationship. Almost no couples will break up early on because they found out one partner has $25,000 of credit card debt. Literally, couples will go, ooh, that makes me uncomfortable. Anyway, see you tomorrow. So money itself is not that

• 25:02Speaker 03

  determinative when I actually think it really should be a very important consideration. How early, third, fourth date, you're starting to just ask questions and you're listening? Again, those pivotal moments when you first take a trip together, maybe when you go out to a nice restaurant together, certainly when you're planning, if and when you're planning to move in together, get married, kids, house, all those times are natural times that you should be having a series of conversations about money. By the way, I didn't take my own advice. I messed up. I waited too long. My wife was the one who had to bring it up with me. We were, I think, engaged and she, she basically said, look, you already know

• 25:43Speaker 03

  all about my finances, but I don't know about yours. That's not fair. And she was right. So I gotta admit, I violated my own rules on this and I, I should have done it earlier.

• 25:53Ed Elson?

  Just want to get into some of the more logistical questions. You recommend joint bank accounts for couples. What does that look like and why do you recommend it?

• 26:03Speaker 03

  If I asked a couple. Do you think you should live together? They would laugh at me. Of course I should. We're a couple. And yet, we don't apply the same principle to our money. There's good research showing that combining your money produces better relationship outcomes, fewer fights, but more importantly, you're just a team. And truthfully, most couples, they're not particularly adept at managing the flows of money. So they have an orphan 401k here, an old IRA over there, and they're struggling. And what ends up happening is they do these very peculiar ways of managing money. So they get together, typically a little bit later in life nowadays. And so they have their own bank account, checking, savings, whatever.

• 26:46Speaker 03

  And what they'll do, instead of combining, because it seems like a lot of work, one person will go, "Mmm, I'll take the rent." "You take the car payment." And what ends up happening is total misalignment. Almost always, mom will be paying way more for kid stuff, which is outrageous. It's totally ridiculous. There's no reason for that. Next, if one person starts making more money, or less, they won't adjust their spending. And so you'll end up seeing people way out of whack. A much better way is to set your accounts up like this. All the money goes into a joint account. You pay your joint expenses, any investments you have. And then you each have a certain amount of money go to your own individual accounts.

• 27:27Speaker 03

  No questions asked. You want to spend it on golf, nails, guys' trip, girls' trip, whatever trip. It's yours, and your partner doesn't even have access to it. But importantly, it's your account. It's private, but it's not secret. Each of you knows what's going on, and you are unified with your accounts.

• 27:44Ed Elson?

  And does that apply if there's a massive disparity in income? Like, how do you split that up?

• 27:53Speaker 03

  Good question.

• 27:53Ed Elson?

  I mean, say if one person is earning all of the money and the other person... Is it 50/50? How do you do it?

• 27:58Speaker 03

  It could be. I mean, all the money should go jointly first. It's all there. It's joint. And then you can decide for your individual money, how you want to apportion that. Some people do it proportionally for that individual, no questions asked money. But there's a philosophy that I want every couple to remember. Our future is together.

• 28:18Speaker 03

  That's really important. If you truly internalize that, then you're making decisions together. Your accounts are set up together and you probably want to be putting more money towards your joint guilt-free spending than your individual guilt-free spending. It's like when I think about my money with my wife. I'm an entrepreneur. I make money from my business. So is my wife. She does the same. And of course, we want to have our own money for our own personal expenditures. But our future is together. And when I get excited, I don't think about my individual stuff. I get excited about us taking trips, experiences, restaurants together.

• 28:55Ed Elson?

  I love the philosophy of it, but just as an example, in my own relationship, I generate most of the income. I'll fix that. I'll fix that. I'm going to bring some equivalence to your relationship. Just as a-

• 29:14Speaker 03

  Does your partner listen to this show?

• 29:16Ed Elson?

  She doesn't usually. We'll see if she listens to this one.

• 29:20Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 29:21Ed Elson?

  Um, it's fine if she does. But one thing that I enjoy as the person who makes more of the money is getting the check. Like, you know, we go out for dinner and I feel like it is a rewarding thing to put my card down and be like-

• 29:39Speaker 03

  Is that because you're a provider?

• 29:41Ed Elson?

  Perhaps, perhaps, but that's something that I feel like I deserve. If I'm, if I'm, if I'm making more of the money, I feel like I deserve the reward of the feeling of I got the check. But if we were putting it all together and it's sort of just like, oh, it's a joint thing, then it sort of removes that reward that the quote-unquote provider gets from getting the check and buying things. So I'd love to get your reaction to my personal-

• 30:11Speaker 03

  I love this. I love this because what this really describes is how money is not just a series of decimal places and spreadsheets. It's much more like an art form. Okay? So right now, here, the way I'm visualizing it, we have a joint account, you and your partner. You each have your individual accounts. You earn more, fine. So when you go out to dinner, maybe you use the joint credit card and you go, hey, this is for us. Or maybe you go out to a super nice place and you happen to love really high-end restaurants. So you pay with your individual card because that's your gift. Maybe it's an anniversary. You can choose, but the important thing is you have a mental model. You're not just arbitrarily doing whatever and then fighting about it six weeks later.

• 30:56Speaker 03

  And your partner is aligned. Remember, the way you set up your accounts matters because right now, it seems like you're both earning. Maybe one day, she's gonna stop earning for whatever reason. Maybe you have a family. Maybe she gets sick. Maybe whatever reason. How are you gonna handle that? The way you set your accounts up now, such as each of you gets individual guilt-free spending money, is important because even if a person doesn't earn a cent, they should still be getting some of that money for themselves, always. You've sold me. Scott.

• 31:27Scott Galloway?

  I'll talk a little bit about money and mating and continue our theme of Scott as a sexist. I coach my boys, 14 and 17, as they're beginning to have dates, that you should always pay. That if you're in the company of women and there's anything resembling a non-platonic friendship, the man always pays. My general thesis is that it's socially acceptable for to split the check. And there's a lot of reasons why you should split the check. Women are doing really well. And when you split the check, you are much less likely to have sex with that woman. Your thoughts?

• 32:01Speaker 03

  First of all, I'm not gonna ruin my career on this show, okay? I've come too far, Scott. 20 years in business, you're not gonna do me in. I'm telling you right now.

• 32:09Scott Galloway?

  Come in, the water's fine. Come in, the water's fine, Remy.

• 32:14Speaker 03

  Scott, I saw that CNN thing you had and it was, it looked great. And then two days later, it was canceled. I said, not for me. Not for me.

• 32:21Scott Galloway?

  CNN Blue? Oh dude, that was the fifth show I've had canceled. We're gonna need a bigger boat if we're gonna start all this shit I've been axing. Anyways, go ahead.

• 32:33Speaker 03

  Listen, I think that what I love about what you're teaching your sons is to be generous. To me, that's the frame that I approach, which is generosity. And I think everybody needs to be a little bit more generous with money.

• 32:44Scott Galloway?

  Great way to put it. Great way to put it.

• 32:45Speaker 03

  I do think that there are dynamics. And I'll tell you, like, they are very hard to change regardless of earning ability. I spoke to a couple. They were both in their late 30s. She was a very successful entrepreneur, making $200,000 per month. $200,000 per month. Very successful entrepreneur. And she had grown up with parents who taught her about money from the age of five. They talked about compound interest. They talked about investing, all of it, from age five. Her boyfriend was a new entrepreneur. His parents never talked about money, never. I think he grew up pretty blue collar. And he was making $2,000 a month.

• 33:28Speaker 03

  So she said, hey, I would like for you to pay for me sometimes. It makes me feel good if you pick up the check. And you know what he said? Great, I'd love to. And yet, when they would go out and he would slide the check across the table and try to pay, she would slide it back and say, no, I want you to put that money in your Roth IRA. So here we have a mix of somebody saying one thing, doing another. And guess what their resolution was? In this case, I thought it was very unconventional, very creative. Once in a while, before they went out, she would give him her credit card, right before they went out. And so that night at dinner, he would slide a credit card, which happened to be hers, across the table, pick up the check, and she felt taken care of. Now, is it weird? Yeah, that's pretty weird.

• 34:13Speaker 03

  Do I care? No, because every couple comes up with their own solution. As long as it's fair, as long as it's equitable, fine. She's making 100 times what he's making per month. She still wants to feel a certain way. Come up with your unusual arrangement, make it happen.

• 34:31Ed Elson?

  Stay with us.

• 34:43Speaker 00

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• 35:17Ed Elson?

  We're back with Prof you markets. Ramit, the average cost of a wedding in America is $35,000. I read recently, which I just cannot fathom.

• 35:28Speaker 03

  How much are you going to pay for yours? Do you know? Come on.

• 35:33Ed Elson?

  About a serious question?

• 35:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, tell me.

• 35:36Ed Elson?

  I really don't know. And I guess this is why I'm asking this question because that seems, you know, way over. I want to go above average. I'll tell you that much. I would like to pay more than more than average.

• 35:50Speaker 03

  I love it.

• 35:50Ed Elson?

  Wedding, but not because I necessarily want to. But I think there's a feeling of like social pressure and romantic pressure around weddings. That it's got to be awesome.

• 36:02Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 36:03Ed Elson?

  It seems, um, it seems like a social, a social norm that is pretty irresponsible. Financially speaking.

• 36:13Speaker 03

  Yeah. And you'll notice when people talk about weddings, they always say the exact same thing. It only comes up once in life. Well, you know, I'd rather save the money on the wedding and buy a house. Hmm, I wonder what a coincidence that the only time in people's life that they think long term with their money happens to be their wedding. And then they talk about buying a house. Where do you think that came from? It's not just something that arbitrarily came up. It's the real estate industry that co that basically conflates growing up into buying a house. We could talk about why buying a house is not always the best investment. In fact, often, right now, it's often terrible. I'll tell you this, Ed, I wanted to have a huge wedding. I'm Indian. I love it. I love weddings. I think they stand for more than just one day.

• 36:58Speaker 03

  They're a chance to bring cultures together. I started saving for a wedding when I was in my twenties, before I ever met my wife. I knew that I would have a big wedding. I was enthusiastic about it. I set a savings goal, which I think all of us should do because it, whether it is a wedding, a car, a house, a trip, whatever.

• 37:16Speaker 03

  A lot of us often resist reality. We go, not me, I'm gonna have a simple, small wedding. Really are you? Because the average numbers we know are quite high. And truthfully, when you start to have a wedding, you realize things are expensive. And it's not just you. It's your partner, it's your in-laws, it's so many other things. So we might as well accept reality and start to put money aside for it. Now, you can always choose to have a smaller wedding or a bigger wedding, that's up to you. But too many of us pretend as if we're just brand new to this planet and we don't know what's gonna happen. Whereas, big life events are quite predictable. I think that if you can afford it, you should never go into debt for a wedding. If you can afford it and it is important to you,

• 37:59Speaker 03

  I'm all for spending money on a fantastic wedding. I did it, I could afford it, it was amazing. Some of the best money that I ever spent. I do think that when it comes to these big purchases, I treat it like our first project together. My wife and I, we actually had a really fun time. We're like, hey, we have the next year to plan this, let's have fun. We then created a couple of values, because you don't wanna be spending the best on everything. So it's like, what are our two, three core values? And then you also need to be realistic, because I have these sort of guidelines about how much you should add to the budget. And for weddings, you know, take the number you come up with and basically double it. That's your safe bet for how much you're gonna spend. Take a vacation you're planning, add 50%.

• 38:44Speaker 03

  That's about how much you're gonna spend. Same thing for buying a house, take the house price, add 50%. That's when you're factoring in phantom costs. So if you do all these things and it's important to you, spend it, as long as you can afford it.

• 38:55Ed Elson?

  Let's just pivot to kids. What are some of the most common arguments that couples have when it comes to kids?

• 39:02Speaker 03

  Couples, they don't talk about money with kids. They see money, remember how I said Americans have a love-hate relationship with money? When it comes to their kids, they think money is evil and it's something to protect their kids from. You know, wealthy people don't think like that. They talk about money all the time. Just like if you wanna your kids to build a healthy relationship with food, you talk about it. Oh, we're gonna eat tomatoes today because we ate green peppers yesterday. Same thing with money. Oh, we're going to go to the grocery store. This is how much we have. Can you help me make sure that we are sticking to the number that we have today? They talk about it all the time. When I speak to couples on my podcast, I'll ask them, what do you remember your family saying about money when you were growing up? And there's two answers.

• 39:46Speaker 03

  And that's it. The first is they never talked about money. This is socioeconomic, it's also geographic. For example, in the Midwest, people don't talk about money. It's seen as something for adults. Second, there's a single phrase that many kids grew up with, and that is their family saying, "We can't afford it." Now, that may have been true, although most people don't even know how to decide if they can afford something. But the fact is, if you hear that phrase over and over, one, 10, 1,000 times by the time you turn 18, you really start to believe that money is simply a source of restriction. So I speak to these multimillionaires a lot, and they still obsess over, "Can I afford these blueberries?" I'm looking at their, I'm looking at how much they make in interest alone every day.

• 40:29Speaker 03

  Of course, they can afford any blueberry they want. But they heard, "We can't afford it," over and over from their parents. And so, parents, if you're listening, those have lasting consequences. A much better approach is to talk about kids from the time they're young. "Hey, come on over, help me push this button. Help me pay this bill. That helps us keep this roof over our head and keeps grapes in the fridge." Then, as they get older, empower them, give them more responsibility. Have them go to the grocery store, have them plan a dinner out for the family. By the time they're 16, 17, they should have made at least one big financial decision for the family. Buying a family car, taking a family trip, whatever it is, so that they understand taxes, trade-offs, and they're equipped to go out in the world.

• 41:11Ed Elson?

  Interesting. I feel like, Scott, you kind of went the other way. Because I know your, your dad at least was very much in the, "We can't afford this." And he was, I mean, from what you've described, he was not good about money with you. But then you kind of whip sword in the other direction, where you're all out on generosity. Do you feel like that's what happened with you, Scott?

• 41:30Scott Galloway?

  I mean, it's, it's so much, I thought it was really interesting to me, what you were saying about your wedding. It's just so, there's just a lot of context around culture, the relationship you have with parents, how much money you have, you know. It's like a lot of these problems get solved with a lot of money. I mean, I hate to say that, but if you don't, it's easy to be generous when you have money. Right. And my approach with my kids is they get a green light credit card. They, I want them to understand, I talk to them very openly about how I make money, where we spend money.

• 42:05Scott Galloway?

  Because of my situation, I keep a lot of it private because I don't want them to feel too privileged or not appreciate money. But it's, it's, it's, um, I feel like a lot of it with kids, I'm curious if you think this for me. It's, it's like nature, it's nature versus nurture. I have one son who is going to boarding school and before he goes back, I say, I'm going to take you out and I want to buy you clothes. And we go to Sunspiel, which is this British brand and I want to buy him a hoodie. And it's 225 bucks. He's like, no, I'm not buying that. I'm like, no, you're not buying it. I'm buying it for you. And he's like, no, I'm not letting you spend this money. He just won't let me spend money on them. It's actually frustrating. And my other, my four year old, next one's like, I'll take two.

• 42:49Scott Galloway?

  And so whatever we're doing, it's, it's just, I mean, it's kind of, they come to you. And I'm, I don't know how those values have emerged or, but I think a lot of it's just in the, in the batter. But I want to, what you said before was really interesting, and that is about the house. There's kind of a rite of passage. As the National Realtors Association has convinced us that part of the rite of passage to adulthood is buying a house.

• 43:14Speaker 03

  One of the most evil organizations out there, racist, historically racist, by the way, and corrupt. They are currently imploding, which I love watching happen. Anyone who doesn't know the history of the NAR should just search for National Association of Realtors Racism. And you, your eyes will be open to what they have done over generations.

• 43:35Scott Galloway?

  It's interesting, and I do agree with you that, and I think a lot of people are coming to the realization that when I bought a home, it was $285,000 in San Francisco. Now the average home is 2.1 million. It just, it doesn't make sense for, not even a lot, but maybe even most young people. But the good news, or the good thing about buying a house in my generation was that it was a means of forced savings and kind of getting your act together around building wealth. Cause you had a tendency to make that mortgage payment. So it was sort of in some ways forced savings around an asset to that point. You know, according to the Case-Shiller's Index, had a decent chance of going up four to six percent a year. That's no longer the case in many regions, although it's region-specific.

• 44:16Scott Galloway?

  What can and should replace the house is a means of starting to build wealth for a new couple.

• 44:24Speaker 03

  Automatic investing in the stock market, the greatest builder of wealth in human history. Now, I will say, I'll acknowledge that it's hard to get people to set up investing. It's not hard to invest. I spend more time brushing my teeth than I spend fiddling with my investments. So, once you get it set up, you can project how much you're going to have, the exact month and year you will be a millionaire, when you will make more from interest versus your income. But a lot of people have a lot of beliefs about money, and they're subtle. I call them invisible scripts. They're so deeply embedded in us that they're invisible even to us. One of them, for example, is when I get married, then I need to buy a house.

• 45:08Speaker 03

  Another one is that the stock market is gambling. That's not true. In fact, you can often project much more closely what's going to happen with the overall stock market than one geographically highly undiversified asset with high holding and transaction costs, AKA a house. So, can you buy a house? You could. I could buy one right now. I don't. I rent. I rent by choice, and I save a lot of money every single month doing that. I rent in high-cost-of-living cities. And what I do, this is important for everybody to know, especially young people who feel so horrible renting, because another invisible script in America is that renting is for losers. And if you're successful, then you buy a house.

• 45:53Speaker 03

  Totally wrong, totally incorrect. I'm trying to show people that. I rent by choice. I take the money that I ordinarily would have spent to own the place, and I invest it. And I make way more with a higher quality of living. If something is broken, I send a text to the landlord, it's fixed the next day. And I can travel and have a flexible lifestyle. Now, that's not for everybody, but I want people to know you're not a loser. If you rent, you have lots of options on building incredible amounts of wealth, but you do need to rethink the American dream that was sold to you by the corrupt NAR. And you need to really decide what is our rich life? What's my rich life and our rich life? And let's start using our money to live that.

• 46:36Ed Elson?

  We asked Ramit, some of our listeners, questions they'd want to ask you. One of the most common requests or common questions was whether they should get a prenup.

• 46:45Speaker 03

  Ooh.

• 46:46Ed Elson?

  So let's just get the official word from Ramit Sethi. Are prenups good or bad?

• 46:52Speaker 03

  Uh, they're, they're good for the right people. Most people do not need a prenup, nor should they get one. If you come into a marriage with a high amount of assets, whether it be investments, you have a piece of property, a business, et cetera, then getting a prenup can make a lot of sense. I have a prenup and it was one of the scariest conversations I ever had, where I, I talked to a lot of people before and in my culture, I didn't know any, any people, certainly not any Indian people who had a prenup. And I thought, oh, that's just culturally not the way it works. Wrong. It turns out that most of my parents, friends, et cetera, when they got married, it was like most people, they did not accumulate a bunch of wealth early on in life.

• 47:37Speaker 03

  Most people don't. They accumulate money later in life. And so there's no reason for a prenup. In my case, I'd had a business for many, many years and I'd invested, et cetera. So I brought it up with my, I think then girlfriend. And I said, look, there's something really important I want to discuss. You know me, you know how I spend my money. I'm not out there buying sports cars because by virtue of having a business, a lot of luck and some hard work, I've managed to build this thing. And it's important to me that we discuss a prenup. And she was as receptive as I could have hoped. She was surprised. She said, wow, I didn't expect that, but I'm willing to learn. And I love that because in America, we have this belief

• 48:19Speaker 03

  that a prenup is typically some asshole in the back of a chauffeured limousine, wearing a top hat saying, fuck you and sign this thing. That's not how it works. That's a Richie Rich episode. So she had her own lawyer. I had my own lawyer. We started talking. It was good until it got really hard and like really hard. We were really not connecting. I felt resentful. She didn't feel listened to. And at one point, she suggested we go see a therapist and talk about it. And I'm really glad we did that. That opened up a lot of conversations for us. So ultimately, we signed it. I'll tell you that when people sign a prenup, they don't want to talk about it again. It was, it was tough to go through. It's one of those things you're like, okay,

• 49:02Speaker 03

  we did it. We don't want to talk about it again. And I don't think we will ever have to. That is the best part of it. But a prenup really is planning at your best for what in the unlikely case, you're at your worst. And so for those of you who are in a situation where you have a disproportionate amount of assets or something you want to premarital protect, it's premarital. Remember that. It's not what happens during the marriage. It's what happened before. Signing a prenup can make sense.

• 49:28Ed Elson?

  What were the main confrontations, if you don't mind me asking, among you and your wife? Like, what, what caused that stress and anxiety?

• 49:37Speaker 03

  Okay, so I had been thinking about money pretty much every day of my life for 15, 20 years. It's my business is what I do. So for me, I was very comfortable talking about these numbers, certainly projecting out, compounding, all kinds of stuff, distributions. And my wife had not. So that was one. But then we got to the therapist's office, which, by the way, if you're wondering, how does the guy who wrote, I will teach you to be rich, find a therapist? I literally went on Yelp at the time and I was like, therapist near me. The closest one was three blocks away. We literally walked there and we just sat down at the first one we found. And she was actually great. She goes, how do you see money? She looks at me. I was like,

• 50:16Speaker 03

  easiest question I ever heard. I go, growth. I could see the 4% rule and my allocation. I could see it all. And then she turns to my, my now wife and she says, how about you? And my wife said, safety.

• 50:31Speaker 03

  I looked at her like, what? Safe? What's that? That word had no connection for me with money because I had, I don't see it that way. I've been earning money since I was 14 years old. But it really opened up both of our eyes to how we were speaking a different language. And so I was going in there hot, talking about spreadsheets and compounding and this is more money than we've ever talked about together. But I was, what I should have done was really start off by saying, when you think of money, what comes to mind? What are your, what are your greatest hopes or your greatest fears? If we are really successful together, where will we go? What can we do together? And then, hey, let's talk about what if things go wrong? What are some ways things might go? I might get hit by a bus? We might get separated?

• 51:16Speaker 03

  Something horrible might happen? Let's talk about it. Let's shine a light on this instead of letting it lurk in the shadows. And then, and only then, would we have gotten to the numbers. That same principle applies when you talk about money with your partner now. Doesn't have to be a prenup. When you're planning the rest of your year, you're starting off with your dreams, your hopes, what went right? What do you want to change next year? When you're looking at your monthly money meeting and you're using the script in my book, the actual agenda that my wife and I use, you're not starting with the numbers. You're always starting with a compliment. So we're starting with feelings. I know a lot of guys especially listening to this, oh my God, feelings. Only feeling I need is the V lookup that I use in my spreadsheet. Get a life. Feelings first, then numbers.

• 51:58Speaker 03

  Trust me, your life will be a lot better and you will be more connected over money when you are starting with how you both feel about it.

• 52:06Scott Galloway?

  Ramit Sethi is a New York Times bestselling author of The Personal Finance Guide, I Will Teach You to Be Rich. He also hosts a podcast by the same name, as well as a Netflix show, How to Get Rich. His latest book, Money for Couples, is available now. Ramit, we love, I think this is the second time we've had you on. We love having you on. It was a learn a lot. Appreciate your time and good luck with the book tour.

• 52:25Ed Elson?

  Thanks, Ramit.

• 52:26Speaker 03

  Thanks, guys.

• 52:36Ed Elson?

  Algebra of Wealth. The US stock market is closed today in observance of a national day of mourning for President Jimmy Carter. So for this episode, we wanted to highlight his 1979 speech where he identified what he called, quote, "A crisis of confidence."

• 52:50Speaker 04

  In a nation that was proud of hard work, strong families, close-knit communities, and our faith in God, too many of us now tend to worship self-indulgence and consumption. Human identity is no longer defined by what one does, but by what one owns.

• 53:20Ed Elson?

  Feels truer than ever. What are your thoughts on that speech, Scott, and the legacy of Jimmy Carter?

• 53:26Scott Galloway?

  Well, I'm incredibly appreciative. He identified what we call the idolatry of money. You basically saw it happening. And just moving to his legacy, I think one of the reasons he's gotten so much attention is just the contrast in one president leaving this earth and one president reemerging in the White House, and the contrast between the values of those two people. And Jimmy Carter was not a great president. He redefined what it meant to be a great ex-president, but he wasn't an effective president. He had some good values, but what I love about Jimmy Carter, President Carter, is the role model he is for young men. And that is, I can't imagine, you know, when your career is just upward and to the right

• 54:07Scott Galloway?

  like that, and then you lose, you're not re-elected, that's a pretty devastating disappointment, right? And that could kind of mark the rest of your life, and you could be pretty depressed. And he decided, no, I'm going to start building homes for low-income people. I'm going to teach Sunday School. I mean, he just, he showed that...

• 54:30Scott Galloway?

  After, you know, even after a disappointing loss, you know, that commitment to public service, that commitment to generosity, that commitment to others is still so important. And, you know, we're writing this book on masculinity. People constantly ask, what are some role models? And I think of James Earl Carter as a fantastic role model for young men. He was born into, you know, fairly middle-class life, decided to serve his country, was a submariner on a nuclear submarine, did graduate work in nuclear physics, ran for governor, won, was an outsider, obviously became president,

• 55:11Scott Galloway?

  was married for 77 years to his college sweetheart or high school sweetheart, Rosalyn, taught Sunday School, was an entrepreneur, took over his father's peanut form, you know, just a very decent man and a nice role model in terms of patriotism, fidelity to his wife, service, character, a really nice, a really nice role model for young men and stands in stark contrast, I believe, to what are not great role models for young men in our, you know, amongst some of our key elected representatives. So, you know, rest in peace, James Earl Carter, dead at the age of 100. That's a, that is a life well-lived.

• 55:56Ed Elson?

  This episode was produced by Claire Miller and engineered by Benjamin Spencer. Our associate producer is Alison Weiss, Mia Silvery is our research lead, Jessica Lang is our research associate, Drew Burrows is our technical director, and Catherine Dillon is our executive producer. Thank you for listening to Prof G Markets from the Vox Media Podcast Network. If you liked what you heard, give us a follow and join us for a fresh take on markets on Monday.