AI adoption in large, well-established companies

This panel discussion was recorded at a recent event hosted by a company, Aryballe, that we previously featured on the podcast (#120 https://practicalai.fm/120). We got a chance to discuss the AI-driven technology transforming the order/fragrance industries, and we went down the rabbit hole discussing how this technology is being adopted at large, well-established companies. Featuring: Mary Fischer-Mullins – LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/maryfischermullinspmpYanis Caritu – LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/yaniscarituDaniel Whitenack – Website https://www.datadan.io/, GitHub https://github.com/dwhitena, X https://x.com/dwhitenaShow Notes: Aryballe https://aryballe.com/Cox Automotive https://www.coxautoinc.com/Previous episode with Aryballe https://practicalai.fm/120Upcoming Events: Register for upcoming webinars here https://practicalai.fm/webinars!

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  We are using technology every day. You know, I've been working on a specific project to really understand imaging technology. And we started that well before the pandemic. And as everybody knows, on one Friday, our business was normal around the world and mostly in the US. Come Monday, that fateful Monday, one day in March of 2020, our businesses shifted and we really shifted into more digital platforms, much quicker and much faster than we anticipated. And that kind of really progressed the way we're approaching things and looking at things to understand, how do we provide a quality, repeatable experience for our clients and our partners in the ecosystem?

• 0:44Speaker 00

  And AI is really helping us do some of that.

• 0:57Speaker 01

  Welcome to Practical AI, a weekly podcast making artificial intelligence practical, productive, and accessible to everyone. Subscribe now if you haven't already. Head to practicalai.fm for all the ways. Special thanks to our partners at Fastly for delivering our shows super fast to wherever you listen. Check them out at fastly.com. And to our friends at fly.io. We deploy our app servers close to our users and you can too. Learn more at fly.io.

• 1:33Daniel Whitenack?

  Welcome to another episode of Practical AI. This is Daniel Whitenack. I'm a data scientist with SIL International. We've got a very special episode today. Way back at episode 120, we talked with a couple representatives from the company Airball. And we talked with them about this very interesting subject of how AI and sensor data is transforming this industry called digital olfaction, which is using advanced AI technology to actually create fingerprints of odors or fragrance. Fragrances and use that to transform industries like manufacturing or the fragrance industry or the food industry.

• 2:17Daniel Whitenack?

  And I got a chance to follow up with Yanis from Ariball and some others at a digital olfaction summit. And we had a follow up discussion about how AI technology is transforming organizations and how organizations are responding and implementing this this sort of technology is. It was quite interesting in terms of the adoption of AI at a large scale and how that is actually shifting large organizations and how they think about the problems that they're solving. So I hope you enjoy this panel as much as I did. Here's the recording from the summit.

• 2:58Daniel Whitenack?

  Thank you. Yeah, it's it's really wonderful to be here at this super exciting summit. I just looked at the date. It was January of 2021 on the Practical AI Podcast. We had a topic focused on how artificial intelligence is transforming the space of digital olfaction and detecting scents and fragrances and all of that. And it's it's awesome to kind of come full circle and see maybe a follow up of how artificial intelligence is transforming this industry and making an impact for a variety of companies. I'm excited today to have on the panel with me Mary Fischer Mullins, who's a Senior Director of Project Strategy at Cox Automotive,

• 3:44Daniel Whitenack?

  and also Yanis Keratou, who is the Chief Software Officer at Ariball. Welcome to you both. Glad to have you on the on the panel.

• 3:52Speaker 00

  Thank you. Thank you. It's exciting to be here.

• 3:54Daniel Whitenack?

  Yeah, to start with, I thought generally, maybe we could start talking about from both of your perspectives, how artificial intelligence and the use of artificial intelligence within your organizations has changed over the past five years. So that could be in relation to this area of scent, fragrance, digital olfaction, but maybe more.

• 4:20Daniel Whitenack?

  More generally than that, how perception of AI has changed within your organization and adoption of these advanced technologies has changed. Maybe I'll start with Yanis, because we are at this summit. From your perspective, and you've been working to develop these technologies specifically for Digital Faction over the past years. How have you seen specifically artificial intelligence and that side of advanced technology be a key technology within what you're trying to build?

• 4:53Speaker 03

  Yes, thank you, Daniel. And we can say since the past five years. So, yes, we talk from the production and R and D point of view, maybe. At Arribal, we use machine learning instead of artificial intelligence. You know, there is an endless debate around this terminology. Machine learning is very well adapted to our problems and the amount also of data available. And as you know, machine learning is really mandatory when designing all the sensors. And so for us, the question five years ago was not if we will use AI. It was how we will use it. And that being said, we use it with discernment.

• 5:37Speaker 03

  I hope AI has promises, that's true, but it can be a source of disappointment sometimes if you don't take some precaution. And that's what we experience also. So what changed is that we need to grow with experts in digital processing. And to avoid the traps of, I would say, AI sirens. We grew a team with data scientists, but also with people having a solid background in physics, chemistry or signal processing. And this is our DNA to think about best ways to use machine learning in sensors area. But also as a consequence, we spent much more time on.

• 6:18Speaker 03

  Understanding our data and pre-processing them more than on machine learning pipelines themselves, which are now, you know, commodities. So I think we also, in our use of AI, we also became more professional in using this technology. We extended our capabilities by using the cloud, of course, for hosting all our stuffs, measuring databases for our customers, but also for us. Knowledge and contextual database, which are very important in AI and so on. So also internally, we built our own data center. Maybe data center is a big word here, but it was that.

• 6:59Speaker 03

  And also to facilitate and accelerate the work of using artificial intelligence for our R and D and product integration team, I would say.

• 7:10Daniel Whitenack?

  Thanks, Yanis. What about yourself, Mary, in terms of Cox Automotive? And how, how maybe the mindset and strategy related to AI-enabled technologies has shifted over the last, last five years or so?

• 7:24Speaker 00

  Absolutely, yeah. We, you know, AI means a lot of things to a lot of different industries. And if you had five people, if you had all of us in this room and asked us for the definition, it would all be different because we're all using it differently in, in some sort of fashion. And, and to Yanis's point, sometimes it can bring about disappointment. So it's, it's important to understand what you're looking at and how you're approaching it. I think when I go into research or I take on a new topic, one of the things that's important is to have an open mindset to say, I think I know what I'm going to discover, but I need to look for the things that kind of bubble up along the way as well. The unexpected exciters or disappointments that you may find along the way. And I think that's available across all the different spaces.

• 8:09Speaker 00

  We are using technology every day. You know, I've been working on a specific project to really understand imaging technology. And we started that well before the pandemic. And as everybody knows, On one Friday, our business was normal around the world and mostly in the US. Come Monday, that fateful Monday, one day in March of 2020, our businesses shifted and we had to. And we really shifted into more digital platforms much quicker and much faster than we anticipated. And that kind of really progressed the way we're approaching things and looking at things to understand, how do we provide a quality, repeatable experience for our clients and our partners in the ecosystem?

• 8:54Speaker 00

  And AI is really helping us do some of that. It helps us to build that trust and confidence in our, our products and in the experience. And so we're really working to understand what else is out there because technology is changing so much every day.

• 9:09Daniel Whitenack?

  Yeah, that's super helpful to think about that. And also to think about how some of the, just the global shifts over the past few years have, have forced a lot of people to maybe consider things on a time scale that's different from their long-term roadmap.

• 10:01Daniel Whitenack?

  So next I want to talk a little bit about like the, the next sort of opportunity that's on your mind in terms of augmented or AI sort of advanced technology within your organization. Maybe this time I'll, I'll start with Mary. I know you, you talked about imaging, but also we've talked a lot about the summit or at the summit about the sort of fragrance and scent and advanced technology in that space. Where are you thinking in terms of the next challenges that advanced technology might, where that might be most applicable in your organization?

• 10:38Speaker 00

  Absolutely. So when you talk about that, that transformation, that quick transformation of our roadmap as, you know, just our journey, whether we're focused on one thing or a bigger company. You know, we looked at this and said, There's emerging technology when it comes to odor sensing tech, you know, odor sensing tech. And how can we leverage that or just explore it to see if it's, you know, I kind of look at it from the scope of is it ready now? Does it apply to our potential scenarios that we have in our ecosystem? And is it repeatable? It goes back to that trust and competence. Can we repeat and create a consistent and valued experience out of the transaction itself? And when we look at the digital world, one of the things that, you know,

• 11:22Speaker 00

  we're working in automotive space is to say, you know, we touch three out of four cars on the road and we have all these varied ecosystems, whether it's mobility or whether it's dealer to dealer or consumer or partnering with our OEMs. You know, we're looking to understand how we can present better quality information to them in a digital experience. And we think that odor has, you know, some potential to explore and understand that. It's interesting to kind of say, you know, when we, if you've ever bought a pre-owned vehicle and perhaps it was something that maybe was used as in an industrial application or it was somebody who maybe smoked in their car. Some people are more sensitive to those kind of experiences and we want to create

• 12:06Speaker 00

  a value that we can express consistently in our ecosystem that then is, you know, allows us to create that output that gives our client portfolios what they're looking for. You know, imagine if you're back in March, you suddenly had to, March of 2020, you suddenly had to transact vehicles digitally and you couldn't be there to touch and feel and listen and smell the inside of the car. And if you've ever talked to buyers and sellers, they want to stick their head in the car and just give it a little sniff. Because as we all know, scent, you know, and looking at the presentation and listening to everybody today, I kind of thought, you know, scent is really a language that we all speak.

• 12:51Speaker 00

  Our memories are grounded in it and our brain triggers very specific things for us. And I think that language is important to us. To us all in our different spaces and you know, we spend so much time in our transportation modes, whether it's a vehicle, maybe it's mass transit, maybe it's monitoring inside of that space. But we want to understand what makes it comfortable and what makes it create value. And perhaps what, what excites us, what excites us about that scent in our experience with transportation?

• 13:21Daniel Whitenack?

  Yeah, it's, uh, it's interesting. You bring in the sort of language parallel. Most of my work day to day is in natural language processing. And I think there we have the advantage that like, everybody knows about language, but it, there are common ways to represent it in like letters, for example. Whereas like scent odor, it's sort of something we are also all familiar with. But having the mechanism to represent it objectively is a difficult thing versus like subjective terms. So it's interesting to hear how the ability to take odor with an AI-enabled platform

• 14:01Daniel Whitenack?

  and kind of process that off of sensors and make the odor sort of signature or fingerprint something that's tangible, creates a kind of language that allows you to do various, various things. So that, that's really interesting. Yanis, I know you, you've been instrumental in, in that process of taking this like sort of fuzzy intangible thing odor and kind of using an AI-enabled system to make that more tangible via the Airi Ball system and the, the platform, the, the fragrance signatures and, and fingerprints. As you look to kind of the next challenges of the system you're developing,

• 14:44Daniel Whitenack?

  what do you think are the big challenges or opportunities that AI might address within what, what you want to do next as a, as a company?

• 14:54Speaker 03

  Maybe I I will talk about two next opportunities we have and we can talk about challenges afterwards maybe. And I think the the first is linked with our application. For example, in the field of automotive, and Sam presented it some some minutes ago. Within the framework of our digital action for automotive consumption, we already performed a real study. It was last year from a two weeks database in real cars. And the malodor detection in cars was achieved with ninety four percent of accuracy. Starting from this point to get to this other signature footprint, as you said.

• 15:39Speaker 03

  So this is a really a successful story. But we are also building and we continue to build a large database. And you know that acquiring database of odor is quite time consuming, but we need to go through. With our customer, for instance, for flavors and fragrances, it is several hundreds or even thousands in the next year of smell. To collect, of course, with automation and there is a lot of digital tools to prepare before. Then we use machine learning to associate those measurements of unknown odors with chemical properties. Or ultimately with sensations or perceptions that they could create, given what we have already learned, of course.

• 16:23Speaker 03

  And the same goes for any other applications. That's our goal with its for each one its own universe of smell. And that's that's also a discovery that we don't need to have a very large spectrum of odor. We need to to have very pragmatic application. And so it reduces several universes you you need to apply your your your machine learning. So first a campaign for initiating the database, then a study to analyze and learn a model. So that you can predict what a new measurement should will be, measurement will be related related to. And the second opportunity maybe is more technical. Very common when designing a sensor, a new sensor especially.

• 17:08Speaker 03

  And whatever the sensor that you want to know how to calculate in advance. What your sensor is supposed to respond when submitted to a non-physical stimulus. It's a straightforward function you want to have. With chemical sensor, it's quite hard to achieve this prediction. I cannot say much more today, but AI is also helping us on this topic. And as you imagine, it's very important to have this tool to predict the output of your system for odor sensing. Before it is measuring something real. So it is the next opportunity, but also a challenge to answer your question.

• 17:46Daniel Whitenack?

  Yeah, definitely. I know just from personal experience, one of the things that I've learned over time is that within an organization, as you're trying to kind of roll out advanced technologies, a lot of the a lot of the things that you have to plan for and deal with are more people related than they than they are technology related. Technology problems can be solved often. Infrastructure things can be solved, but people's perception of advanced technologies and how they adapt them into their workflows. And sort of the foundational organizational changes that you need to implement as you're rolling out advanced technologies.

• 18:29Daniel Whitenack?

  Might be the difficult things to think about. So Mary, I'm curious, I'll start with you as you've kind of worked with your organization over the past years to implement some of these advanced technologies. What have you found are those kind of foundational organizational changes? Or what has the experience been like in rolling out these sort of advanced technologies? And maybe the things that you've hit along the way that you might be interested to share.

• 18:58Speaker 00

  Sure thing. You know, we have, when we talk about AI or advancing technology in our space, you know, go back to my imaging technology and, you know, when we think about the mobile phone over the last just four years, if you're in the, in the States, you may have had, I don't know, an iPhone eight maybe, and we're already on the fourteen and, and iPhone twelve and newer has LiDAR imaging technology. So it has the ability to image things differently. The iPhone fourteen has some newer features. So when we talk about the simple, you know, this kind of construct of imaging itself, the technology has moved very quickly. And so when we're building our portfolio of information and the way we're curating that has really,

• 19:41Speaker 00

  we've kind of had some takeaways and then we're like, oh, here's this new thing. Should we pursue it? So we've had to kind of continue to curate and understand that when we're, when we're in the space of technology, we need to be able to accommodate across all the different formats. So it could be, you know, we need a version back to the iPhone eight when we talk about product or capture. We need a version up to the iPhone fourteen and beyond. And we think about that when we also talk about our user experience of, you know, what is the end user or the person who's interacting with this technology at all the different tiers? How are they going to receive this? You know, it's interesting when you talk to a novice about artificial intelligence.

• 20:24Speaker 00

  Sometimes they will immediately say friends or family, oh, AI is going to take over and that really concerns me. And I kind of always say, well, AI is only as smart as we want it to be. And if we stop feeding it or stop giving it quality information, it really just truncates and doesn't go anywhere. So we're very cognizant of the need to continue to curate quality information, whether it's images, whether it's data and how we collect that, making sure that, you know, we have all the information so that we can build this robust data lake that takes us from. You know, computer vision to machine learning and into our different types of modeling that we're using. So I think technology advances are amazing and it's almost hard

• 21:09Speaker 00

  in some ways to keep up with them because they are moving so quickly. So I think in some ways we're chasing and some ways we're leading, but I think those are are part of the adventure and the journey in the process.

• 21:22Daniel Whitenack?

  Yeah, I'm so I'm so glad that you brought up the data side of things, which, you know, there's this kind of the the AI, machine learning, modeling side of things. There's the organizational changes that need to happen to accommodate that. And then there's also like the data and the infrastructure things that go along with that, that absent that really quality information and the curation of that over time, any changes you make in the other two categories might be all for naught. So yeah, I think that's a really, a really good point to make. Yannis, as as you've been working maybe with with various clients across different industries, have you seen any commonalities in terms of the organizational

• 22:05Daniel Whitenack?

  mindset or foundational changes that organizations are having to make now that we've moved from specifically your platform, enabling them to analyze odor and fragrance on a much deeper level, a much more objective level? What are those sort of organizational or foundational changes you've you've seen in common across some of the organizations that you've worked with that they've needed to make now that they have this fundamentally or this transformation, digital transformation of something that was maybe more subjective before?

• 22:39Speaker 03

  Yes, that's that's a good question. But also, I think that the progress of the digitalization of everything in them, the large companies, it's very helpful for us because it's exactly what we should be. And it helps us to disseminate the technology easier with the cloud, with many tools, we are.

• 23:02Speaker 03

  We are offering to our partners. And in our company, we made a big transformation, in fact, from a high skilled R and D startup company, I would say, to a product company still improving, of course. But that's the most striking one for me. Even if considering advanced technologies, people at Ariva are very used to, and this is a population that really progress quickly on this topic. Even in the way people are collaborating, we integrated, for instance, automation at all levels, from robots for grafting our biosensor on many, many dies of silicon,

• 23:44Speaker 03

  or robots for sniffing others to get more data, and also to capturing knowledge at each steps of our product chain or even in our product. And that was mandatory. So we digitalized those for sure, but we need also to digitalize as much as we could, all our information, in fact. And to summarize, we try to have more and more trustability. As we know, beyond this, AI will help us a lot. If you have the data and a lot of data, we will be very helpful for us.

• 24:33Daniel Whitenack?

  Maybe just a couple more questions here for both of you. What's maybe one challenge that you see within your industry in terms of the adoption of AI or augmented types of technology? And then maybe what's something you're excited about as you look forward to the possibilities that this sort of technology might might open up in your industry? We can start with you, Mary.

• 25:03Speaker 00

  Some of the challenges, I think the biggest challenge that we all have, and it probably crosses every industry, is the human factor. Because when you put humans in this equation, which we're all doing the work, that is our number one source of bias. So when we look at this and we talk about trust and consistency and we want to create an ecosystem that has a quality experience every time, or quality outputs every time, we have to continually look at how we're bringing all these elements together so that we are checking ourselves and eliminating not just our own bias and our own admiration for potential goals. Like, we have this lofty goal of what we potentially want to achieve and we need to

• 25:47Speaker 00

  ensure that we're setting those standards of bias aside. The other challenge when it comes to humans is ensuring that we're giving, you know, in our organization, we're looking to cross many skill levels and many knowledge levels, but we want to deliver outputs and tools and products and information that are consumable, that don't feel overwhelming, that don't feel intimidating. And so that is, you know, kind of our first goal is to say, what can we do that creates the value? What am I excited about? I think I just, you know, this has been an exciting day for me to see how all of this crosses so many different industries.

• 26:26Speaker 00

  I'm excited how technology, really in a positive way, can change our experiences together. Technology has brought us together today. And, you know, I think those adventures of kind of the human experience and how technology interweaves us all together is part of the exciting things. I don't have, you know, simply just one thing that I'm looking at and saying, wow, I wish this was happening. I think I just take it all in and look at it with some amazement. And then I reach out to all the smart folks in our organization and around the globe that say, this is how we're going to use it. So it's good stuff.

• 27:01Daniel Whitenack?

  Yeah, what about yourself, Yannis?

• 27:03Speaker 03

  Yes, there are some, of course, there are some challenges people in our industry face, especially with sensors, with data, amount of data, digital refraction and so on. So, sorry, my answer may be probably a bit on the technical side, but I would like to be clear, and specifically on digital refraction. When we wish to have a technical answer to a problem, we like to represent it as the information as an input, then you have a black box and the desired answer, which is really appealing and attractive at the output. It's always like that. But the question is what we are doing in the black box? And it's very attractive to put directly inside only an automated learning-based system.

• 27:48Speaker 03

  It may work sometimes, but sometimes only. So if you want to know, let's say, let's take an example. A camera lens, it should accommodate to get an image on your sensor. There are some explicit optics law to give you this answer, without the need for learning. And when there are no formulas, machine learning from data is used. In our rival sensor, there are two parts. An explicit part, which we know how to describe by laws, and an implicit part for which we are obliged to learn through many measurements and a certain amount, of course, of prior knowledge attached to the data. And what is interesting, the less explicit you make in your system, the more dimensions the need to observe for the implicit part of it.

• 28:32Speaker 03

  And over time, we understand in our jobs as sensor guys that the use of AI to solve these problems is this mix between clearing the ground as much as possible with explicit mappings, you know, in advance, and collecting data to feed the implicit mapping. And so, for example, to be more concrete, I give this example several times during the presentation. It's on purpose, I think. All other sensors are really corrupted by humidity variation during the acquisition. So we use explicit techniques with a humidity sensor or with the amplifier, which is an hardware, to reduce this impact in the signal. Achieve what we can call the dry smell inputs.

• 29:15Speaker 03

  Then we use machine learning on the remaining signal techniques to recognize the smell, for example. And if we don't approach AI with this mix, I believe we ask the machine learning to support all the problem as a black box, and we have to acquire data to fill a cube in 3D rather than a square, if I oversimplify it. And that for sure requires much more time, so the required database is much more expensive. And even even if data is really where is the value, you don't want to spend too much time on acquiring databases, even at the very beginning. And then you can learn incrementally from time to time, but you need you need a first database and you don't want to spend too much on on this.

• 29:59Speaker 03

  Additionally, we can say that another challenge that people may may face in the digital olfaction industry comes that it's funny that there is a flattering perception coming from the first impressive success of deep learning in vision or speech pre-condition. And for sure, thanks to that tools working very well for vision, the sensor will take benefit from it for sure. But the challenge is from another side, I believe, when it comes to to to other sensors. First, even if our even technology can offer another, that's been said during the presentation, within few seconds and few minutes sometimes, acquiring orders is a bit longer than just taking a photo.

• 30:42Speaker 03

  And after this, no one can label the digital result if he has, it was not present when the smell was captured. If you see a cat in a picture, even two years later, you will be able to recognize it and attach the label cat to the picture. With other signature, it's not the case, the capture signal doesn't smell anything. So I believe labeling data is a challenge for high volume, and this particularity is a bit slowing down the the ramp up towards big data in digital olfaction for sure. It takes more time. Yes, also due to the particular nature of emerging odor sensor, we made at Arribal a huge effort to have our sensor as much as reproducible and repeatable along with time,

• 31:24Speaker 03

  while keeping their discrimination and resolving power through the diversity of chemistry in the odors alive, I would say. Then, then, then you can learn models and make them efficient in the, in the real life, like automotive application or flavor fragments. That's a couple of usual challenges. You, you may have when doing a smart system with AI and maybe not only with a digital odrefaction.

• 31:52Daniel Whitenack?

  Thank you for sharing those. I think a lot of those data labeling quality issues that I think a lot of industries can, can learn from that. That's a lot of times where things slow down. And yeah, it's, it's so awesome to hear about the transformation that's happening in, in both of your organizations and at this event, just hearing what's going on and how, how these technologies are really shifting people's perceptions of what's possible is, is really exciting. So thank you, Yanis and Mary for, for joining the panel. It's been, it's been great to chat with you.

• 32:24Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 32:25Speaker 03

  Thank you very much.

• 32:34Speaker 01

  All right, that is our show for this week. If you dig it, don't forget to subscribe. Head to practicalai.fm for all the ways. And if Practical AI has benefited your life, pay it forward by sharing the show with a friend or a colleague. Word of mouth is the number one way people find shows like ours. Thanks again to Fastly for fronting our static assets, to fly.io for backing our dynamic requests, to Breakmaster Cylinder for the beats, and to you for listening. We appreciate you. That's all for now. We'll talk to you again on the next one.