Artful Intelligence | Ep 2: Elise Swopes on Photography x AI

How can you shape the future with AI to create the world you want to live in? Reid Hoffman and Chris McLeod explore this question with Elise Swopes, a trailblazing visual artist and educator blending AI with photography. Currently an evangelist for Adobe, Elise has been a creative force since the early days of Instagram, crafting surreal visuals for brands such as Adidas, McDonald’s, Casamigos, and Sony. But her journey hasn’t been without challenges. From online harassment to personal struggles, she’s faced adversity with resilience, using her art to shape a brighter, more inclusive future. Join us as we traverse her path—while Reid reflects on AI’s evolving role in fostering creativity and meaningful human expression. Can AI ever replace human style, or will the future of art always require a human touch? Time Stamps: 02:14 - Chris McLeod intros the series Part 1: Shape Your Tools Because They Will Shape You and Your Future 07:07 - How Elise discovered AI and overcame early backlash 09:26 - Building websites and creating digital art as a kid 11:26 - Teaching creativity online and the power of sharing knowledge 17:03 - Reid: How can we foster more constructive conversations about AI? Part 2: The Right Networks Will Amplify Your Voice Without Losing It 17:13 - Using AI tools to redefine creative possibilities 19:29 - Elise’s journey from public school to creative entrepreneurship 21:26 - Brand collaborations with Nike, McDonald’s, and Casamigos 23:36 - Navigating higher education on her own terms 25:12 - Reid: What would a “better future with AI” look like for artists? Part 3: Taste and Style Are Your Competitive Advantage in Shaping the Era of AI 27:50 - How artists can shape AI’s future through experimentation 31:31 - Elise’s creative process with Adobe Firefly and AI-generated art 33:52 - Reid: Could AI make human artistic style obsolete? 41:16 - Elise reflects on personal growth and creative freedom Links: Swopes’ Website: https://www.swopes.info/ Swopes on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/swopes Swopes AI piece discussed in the episode: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C5D0rFJOEzf/?igsh=MWgwNDU1cms1a3I2 Swopes’ TEDx Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joWNKJlf8N0 Show Description: Artful Intelligence explores the thrilling intersection of creativity and artificial intelligence. Hosted by Chris McLeod, this mini-series dives into the stories of groundbreaking artists using AI to push the boundaries of what’s possible. Each episode showcases how human ingenuity and machine learning collaborate to create the extraordinary. With thought-provoking contributions from Reid Hoffman, Artful Intelligence asks bold questions about the future of creativity: Can AI amplify human expression? How do we ensure it empowers rather than replaces us?

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Reid Hoffman?

  Hello, possible listeners. Last week, we turned the mic over to producer Chris McLeod for episode one of the mini-series, Artful Intelligence. Chris has captured stories of creatives on the cutting edge of AI tools, creating incredible art that's never been possible before. Chris is back today for episode two.

• 0:26Speaker 01

  Hey, Reid. Thanks for having me back. I have another story about an artist making groundbreaking work with AI. Just like last week, from time to time, we'll zoom out to hear your perspective on the greater AI landscape and how we can work toward the version of the future where it all breaks humanity's way. Sound good?

• 0:47Reid Hoffman?

  Sounds great. Let's do it.

• 0:51Speaker 01

  Welcome to Artful Intelligence.

• 1:01Speaker 01

  In each episode, we'll share the story of an artist using AI to create what's never been possible before.

• 1:10Speaker 01

  Episode two, How to Change the Future.

• 1:17Speaker 01

  I love science fiction, and some of the movies that have shaped me most are about artificial intelligence. I don't know if you've ever noticed this trend in sci-fi films, but when AI is involved, things rarely go well for humans. For example, The Matrix.

• 1:37Speaker 02

  You wanted to know what The Matrix is, didn't you, Trinity?

• 1:42Speaker 01

  In this 1999 dystopian thriller directed by the Wachowskis, a computer hacker named Neo meets a mysterious man named Morpheus, who explains the truth about the nature of reality itself.

• 1:57Speaker 02

  But what we know for certain is that at some point in the early 21st century, all of mankind was united in celebration. We marveled at our own magnificence as we gave birth to AI.

• 2:10Speaker 03

  AI. I mean, artificial intelligence.

• 2:15Speaker 01

  Neo learns that hundreds of years in the past, the world was taken over by AI robots. All of humanity has been living in a simulated reality while their bodies are farmed for electrical energy. An incredible film, but not exactly the idyllic AGI that we're hoping for. Another one of my favorites is maybe the greatest sci-fi film ever made, the 1968 Stanley Kubrick masterpiece, 2001: A Space Odyssey, which there's no way I can summarize here.

• 2:49Speaker 04

  Open the pod bay doors, Hal.

• 2:53Speaker 02

  I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.

• 2:57Speaker 01

  By the end of this ambitious story, which spans the length of humanity's existence, Dave and Hal have a bit of a falling out.

• 3:06Speaker 05

  I can sing it for you.

• 3:09Speaker 04

  Yes, I'd like to hear it, Hal.

• 3:13Speaker 04

  Sing it for me.

• 3:15Speaker 05

  Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer, do.

• 3:26Speaker 01

  There's something about AI that makes for some terrifying stories. And like it or not, these films have shaped much of the conversation about AI. When I talk to people about the exciting ways that I'm using AI tools, sometimes all they can think about are moments like this.

• 3:46Speaker 05

  Hasta la vista, baby.

• 3:51Speaker 01

  But what if we're not, in fact, destined for the darkest timeline? What if we can actually use technology to create a better world? To quote another great sci-fi epic, let's hear the final words on screen of someone who knows quite a bit about the future.

• 4:09Speaker 06

  Your future hasn't been written yet. No one has. Your future is whatever you make it. So make it a good one, both of you.

• 4:21Speaker 06

  We will, Doc.

• 4:24Speaker 01

  Nothing against Kubrick or the Wachowskis, but I like the sound of Doc Brown's version of the future, one that's still being written. So I wanted to talk to an artist who's using their work to create a better future with AI.

• 4:40Speaker 07

  I want people to be at peace more than anything. I want people to feel confident in their choices and who they are and why they do what they do every day. Because that in essence is going to make the world better.

• 4:52Speaker 01

  That's Elise Swopes. Swopes is a photographer who's been creating stunning and surreal art long before AI tools were around. Her style is unmistakable. Scroll down her Instagram feed, @swopes, and check out some of my favorites: giraffes walking through the streets of Manhattan, or a waterfall flowing over a building. Swopes was one of the first-ever Instagram influencers. She's worked with brands like Adidas, McDonald's, New Balance, and Sony, just to name a few. She's the kind of artist who is constantly paying it forward. She makes videos to teach her followers how they can create work like her.

• 5:35Speaker 07

  Can Adobe's new AI tool, Adobe Firefly, help turn my photo into a work of art? Let's find out. I love exploring and utilizing New York as my canvas. It's the perfect backdrop to my surreal ideas.

• 5:49Speaker 01

  And as an early NFT adopter, she made about a quarter million dollars with her art. So she created Sunrise Art Club, which empowers other Black women in the NFT space. Now, she uses AI to take her style even further. Earlier this year, she created a piece that blended AI art with a style of composite photography that went viral. So today on Artful Intelligence, we'll find out how she made this stunning piece and how it's actually helping make the future a better place. And in the spirit of great sci-fi films, we'll do a bit of time travel ourselves.

• 6:29Speaker 01

  So bust out your hoverboards and hop in my DeLorean as we make our nonlinear way through Swope's story. As we traverse the space-time continuum of Elise Swope's, we'll try to answer the question, how can you change the future with AI?

• 6:45Speaker 04

  Hey Doc, we better back up. We don't have enough road to get up to 88. Road? Well, we're going, we don't need roads.

• 6:55Speaker 01

  Part one, shape your tools, because they will shape you and your future.

• 7:07Speaker 01

  It all started in 2022.

• 7:09Speaker 07

  My friends were playing with Midjourney in our Twitter chat, and they were making the most fugly stuff. I was like, what is this thing? What is going on? Things you couldn't really like see anywhere else, you know? Like just stuff you couldn't really make or imagine.

• 7:29Speaker 01

  When did you start utilizing it like on your Instagram posts?

• 7:34Speaker 07

  It was probably something very simple, like a cloud or like a waterfall or something. Because I'll be honest with you, the outputs were not that good. And also, things got like very strange real quick.

• 7:50Speaker 07

  I was just being like bullied a lot when I would talk about AI. People would like threaten me, like death threats. You know, there was just a lot of violent language at that time. Like, why are you even following me? If you're gonna be so negative and hateful about stuff that you're just assuming. So I was very afraid to kind of go all out on it. I would utilize it like little bits and pieces, like stock imagery within my work. And that seemed pretty safe. And no one really knew.

• 8:26Speaker 07

  Because they didn't want to get bullied.

• 8:28Speaker 01

  Swope saw a version of the future where artists didn't feel safe expressing themselves with AI tools for fear of being shamed and bullied. And she wanted to change it.

• 8:40Speaker 07

  I was like, OK, how can I help people understand what's going on and protect themselves, but also utilize it in the way that they could?

• 8:52Speaker 01

  Arguing with trolls rarely ends well, but Swope had another tool up her sleeve.

• 8:58Speaker 07

  I am an educator. I was born an educator.

• 9:02Speaker 01

  Swope wanted to teach her followers how to use these tools in ethical and artful ways. And she wanted to create a safe space for them to explore any tool they wanted. Luckily, it wasn't the first time she taught people how to be creative with technology. Let's fire up the flux capacitor and head back to the mid 90s.

• 9:26Speaker 07

  Growing up with two parents who were divorced, who were very young. My mom had me when she was 19. We weren't wealthy by any means whatsoever. I was homeschooled at the time. So my mom would go to work and then my dad would come and take care of my brother and I. My dad would just teach us everything. I mean, I learned how to read really young, swimming, and riding bikes, all kinds of stuff. We would do these paper mache globes. And I would just be so obsessed with figuring out that we could use flour and water and just build stuff.

• 10:01Speaker 01

  One day, a piece of tech came into her life that would change everything.

• 10:07Speaker 07

  It was one of those old Mac computers with the blue plastic back on it. My mom brought it home from work because they were just older. A couple of years old, they were giving them away.

• 10:16Speaker 01

  She wanted to learn everything she could about this marvelous machine, even if it meant ignoring her actual schooling.

• 10:24Speaker 07

  My dad would fall asleep sometimes during lessons and I'd just be on there playing with all these different programs like KidPix and AOL and Angel Fire. I would build websites and stuff and teach myself HTMLs and even design, graphic design. I would just teach myself.

• 10:45Speaker 07

  I didn't wait for anyone to show me it. I didn't wait for anyone to like allow me to show myself that. I just looked it up and figured it out and did what I wanted to do when I wanted. You know, I'm like an eight-year-old kid just testing stuff out.

• 11:01Speaker 07

  That was my way of responding to the things around me without having to, I don't know, be judged. Having this computer that allowed me to have unlimited creation, unlimited opportunity to express myself, unlimited, everything really, kind of made me feel like I was limitless.

• 11:26Speaker 01

  She was so excited about all the incredible things she was learning and wanted to share it through online communities and forums of the early internet days.

• 11:36Speaker 07

  This forum that I used to go on, this Creative Pixel Forum or something.

• 11:39Speaker 01

  She came across a user who made an entire website with tutorials on how to create with digital tools. And for whatever reason, the website was for sale.

• 11:50Speaker 07

  And I was like begging my dad to like give me 20 bucks so I could buy this domain from this girl. And I ended up building like tutorials on how to like design your own graphics and how to build your own websites. And, you know, she just had this like plethora of other information that I included as well. And I just loved having like a community of people who would learn things from me.

• 12:12Speaker 01

  It didn't stop there. When junior high came around, she started going to public school. She and her friends were discovering early social media platforms like MySpace and Zanga. On these sites, if you knew a bit of HTML, you could customize your profile to look however you wanted. So of course, Elise customized the hell out of her MySpace page.

• 12:34Speaker 07

  I would sell MySpace layouts to people. I would help people do their own MySpace layouts. I mean, I was in middle school, 12 years old, 13, like selling MySpace layouts to people at school. I just needed to do it.

• 12:49Speaker 01

  Because of Elise, other kids were able to experience the absolute thrill of having a creative impulse and using technology to harness it. It was her way of shaping the future and working toward a world where creativity was limitless.

• 13:06Speaker 01

  Meanwhile, back in the present. Swopes is dreaming up ways to educate her followers about AI tools and meet head on the toxic conversations and online bullying. She was about to get an opportunity that would supercharge her efforts. But before we get to that, read. So I've scrolled down some of your LinkedIn posts into the dreaded comments section. And while much of the conversation is incredibly thoughtful, even when people have different perspectives, from time to time, the trolls come out. And honestly, the worst comments are usually from people who have no idea what they're talking about. So here's my what-if question.

• 13:50Speaker 01

  What if the conversation about AI could be kind and thoughtful, even if we disagree? How do we work toward this future?

• 13:58Reid Hoffman?

  Well, your question kind of makes me think of a new fun phrase, which is, on the internet, no one knows if you're a dog, but everyone knows if you're a troll. Because there's a stack of human responses that's that way. That's because people are angry, or fearful, or other kinds of worse character dysfunction. And so it's very difficult to get away from the fact that anything that has some substance to it can bring out some number of human beings to a vitriolic stance.

• 14:37Reid Hoffman?

  Now, there's various ways that we try to work towards having a more civil discourse, and even better compassionate, kind, thoughtful. Like, for example, what we've done with LinkedIn is to try to tie it to your professional identity, and you own what you're saying, versus the... Says pool of X.com. But you know, like AI can be helpful here because you say, oh, you're going to censor, you're gonna, you're gonna have censorship. And you're like, well, you know, could do that. I'm not saying you should do that. But like, for example, say, you know, as you had, you know, kind of an AI agent that said, hey, you know, we can post that if you want, you know, and just tell me, go ahead and post it. But have you thought about

• 15:21Reid Hoffman?

  how you sound to other people? Have you thought about, you know, what your friends would think if they saw you saying this? Have you thought about, you know, what making threats are, you know, getting moments of reflection? You know, again, you could say an AI agent says, would you like me to frame this in a way that would be more constructive? You're like, same point. And I'll give you an alternative to how to say this, you know? Here's, he said, well, look, I'm really deeply worried about the fact that you don't care about people in rural society on this, you know, or you don't care about, you know, what's happening with my minority community, my community of color. And I had the following

• 16:01Reid Hoffman?

  questions that are, I think, really important to answer, right? You go, well, that sounds like it's a lot better than that person is evil. I am going to run my car over them. The vast majority of the cases, especially when you're online and having that kind of emotional response, the vast majority is, no, no, actually, in fact, the evil person is you, right? And a little bit of compassion and kindness and reflection and civility is actually, in fact, the right way to engage in this. And the more we are that way, this is part of how we make progress in society is, you know, the reason why we discover

• 16:43Reid Hoffman?

  truth by groups of us talking to each other, whether it's a panel of people agreeing to publish a paper, whether it's a jury agreeing whether or not someone has done something wrong or not, that, that, that, that, that's how we navigate this.

• 17:03Speaker 01

  Part two. The right networks will amplify your voice without losing it.

• 17:13Speaker 01

  Over the next two years, the AI tools were getting better. And Swopes was using them more and more in her work while showing her audience how they can do the same. She got to make what she wanted, when she wanted, on her own terms. And that's the way she liked it. But an opportunity came along that would open up her work to a massive new audience. And she'd have to make a choice.

• 17:36Speaker 07

  Last year, I got hit up by someone who was working with Adobe. And they were like, there's a perfect job we think you'd be good for. Are you interested? And honestly, at first, I was like, no.

• 17:51Speaker 07

  I was like, no, I'm not. I don't want a real job. I'm terrified of having a real job. I don't want to have a boss. I don't want anyone to tell me what to do. And they're like, oh, well, it's an evangelist. I was like, hmm, all right, well, maybe. And I did the whole pros and cons thing.

• 18:05Speaker 01

  Pro: stability.

• 18:07Speaker 07

  I never had insurance. You know, I mean, there's a lot of loans that I had to take out.

• 18:12Speaker 01

  Con: she wouldn't be her own boss.

• 18:15Speaker 07

  Yeah, there's a lot of stuff that I learned being my own boss that was necessary for me to learn, take initiative and organization and just thoughtfulness and preparedness, like that kind of stuff you cannot not do when you're own boss.

• 18:28Speaker 01

  Swopes has never been a fan of being told what to learn or what to create. Remember, this is the same person who would wait for her dad to fall asleep so she can make stuff on her iMac. In fact, let's go back again, this time to middle school.

• 18:47Speaker 07

  When I got to public school, eventually, I was in accelerated classes. I was very headstrong, very confident, and just like not afraid of a challenge. I never waited for anyone to tell me what I wanted to learn. I figure it out, take initiative, do what I want to do because I want to do it. That also, you know, got me in trouble because I didn't like to listen to teachers. My dad also told me I didn't have to stand for the pledge if I didn't want to, so I didn't. And if a teacher had a problem with that, you know, call my dad. So, yeah, it's bittersweet in many ways.

• 19:29Speaker 01

  So grade school and swoops weren't exactly compatible. Maybe things would be different in college.

• 19:36Speaker 07

  My first semester, I failed like every single one of my classes.

• 19:40Speaker 01

  Or not. So, college dropout Elise Swopes continued to create on her own terms. She became a photographer, graphic designer, and musician. Fun fact, for a while, Elise was in a hip hop group with Kanye's DJ.

• 19:56Speaker 07

  Once again, it's me and my best friend. Swopes and Smokey the team with the best plan. Pearl in and the pearl bins in Berlin. Long hair, don't care in the whirlwind.

• 20:06Speaker 01

  But then she discovered a platform where she could create the art she wanted. But with the power of networks, her voice would be amplified.

• 20:14Speaker 07

  My nickname in Chicago was Instagoddis. Because I was the only person who was doing Instagram. I mean, I remember taking photos of my phone of friends and they were like, what are you doing? Why are you doing that? Posting edits of like the cityscape of Chicago and putting like elephants and giraffes and waterfalls and stuff like that in them. And so me and my fiance, we've been together since we both signed up for Instagram.

• 20:41Speaker 01

  By the way, you should totally look up Elise's fiance. He's @trashhand on Instagram, and he's really good, too. Anyway.

• 20:50Speaker 07

  We would have this thing where we'd be like, okay, if we get a certain amount of likes or a certain amount of comments, we would get on the popular page. It was like one kind of static page that everyone on Instagram would see. And we'd be like, oh my God, we made it, ah, you know, big deal. Because you can get thousands of followers for being on the popular page. I woke up one morning and I was getting like thousands of followers not even being on the popular page. I'm like, okay, something's weird, something's going on, I'm kind of scared, I don't know what's happening. My fiance was like, I think you're a suggested user. I was like, what is that?

• 21:26Speaker 07

  When you sign up for Instagram, there's like a page that pops up for people to kind of tell you who to follow. So I was one of those very few people. I was like, oh, wow, I should probably take this serious.

• 21:40Speaker 01

  And she did. As the Swopes brand grew, so did her impact and opportunity. Other brands started to notice.

• 21:48Speaker 07

  Being one of the first influencers with Nike, working for the first time with like George Clooney on his tequila brand, Casamigos, traveling to Japan, Dubai, Paris, you know, going all over the world, just like taking photos with my phone for brands and people and individuals. It was a very surreal time because no one was really doing that.

• 22:11Speaker 01

  It's strange to think back to a time when people being paid to post content on the internet was a novel idea. But Swopes was helping to pave the way for an entire new influencer industry with nothing but her iPhone and the power of networks. With this newfound appreciation for networks, she wondered if she had missed out on the network of higher education. Maybe it was time to give college another college try.

• 22:39Speaker 07

  I was like, oh, maybe I should go back to get my diploma because now I'm really successful and it'd be nice to have that.

• 22:46Speaker 01

  So she went back to school, but then quickly remembered.

• 22:50Speaker 07

  I hated being in the classroom. You know, there was this one time I remember very vividly that one of my teachers said something to me about how like, no one uses email for business. And I'm like, what are you even talking about? I told him I can't be in class because I have this huge project in Japan. He's like, well, I'm very disappointed you're not going to be in class. And I'm like, you don't get it, like, none of you get it. No one gets it. So I just, I, at that point, I really had to like, just decide what meant something to me versus what meant anything to anybody else. You know, so I, again, I failed, so. Yeah. Failed a couple times.

• 23:28Speaker 01

  Elise had to be free to follow her passion and opportunity. And this dusty college professor did not get it. Institutional education may not be right for her, but leave it to Swopes to still figure out a way to get that college degree on her own terms.

• 23:47Speaker 07

  During the pandemic, I was like, I think I can do some online classes. I reached out to the dean and I was like, hey, I heard about this college credit gift thing.

• 23:59Speaker 07

  And so I basically wrote this huge dissertation about my life and what I've accomplished. I was gifted a college diploma.

• 24:10Speaker 01

  Elise saw that networks could play a huge role in amplifying her voice, and that it was possible to exist in these systems while staying true to herself. Meanwhile, in the present.

• 24:24Speaker 01

  Elise was contemplating the offer from Adobe, and she knew it would have to check both boxes: amplify her voice while creating on her own terms. She was skeptical, but the folks at Adobe were selling hard.

• 24:37Speaker 07

  It's not very like, kind of, sales and marketing and stuff. We're just ourselves for a living.

• 24:44Speaker 01

  So it was time for some soul searching. What is being true to yourself? And what's just ego getting in the way?

• 24:54Speaker 07

  You know, I put down pros of why I should work there, cons of what, you know, but the cons were just like, very ego-driven stuff, you know? Like, I want, you know, I don't want anyone to tell me to do, you know? I want to be my own hours, blah, blah, blah. Not realizing this was going to be like, the greatest door that I needed to open.

• 25:15Speaker 01

  So she said yes.

• 25:17Speaker 07

  So I've been killing it, which is incredible.

• 25:22Speaker 01

  So Elise gets to create what she wants on her own terms, and her voice is amplified with the help of a massive brand like Adobe, a company that's heavily invested in AI tools for artists and creators. This could be the opportunity she's been waiting for, to teach the world about what's possible with AI, in a safe space where creatives feel free to experiment with any tool they want. It was time to go all in on AI.

• 25:51Speaker 01

  But before we get to that, Reid, you're a big proponent of the power of networks. But networks also come with their own set of challenges like hierarchy, status quo, and institutionalism. Much of the early AI breakthroughs came from higher education. But now the innovation seems to be coming from private companies. When it comes to shaping the future with AI, what's the role of higher education versus the role of private companies?

• 26:20Reid Hoffman?

  So, you know, the fact that innovation is happening through private companies, you know, does have some interesting blind spots. There's a lot of stuff that happens through private companies. Like, most people eat, right? All the food that you get is through private companies. You might say, whoa, but that's the problem because we have this industrial complex which, you know, tells us to eat sugar cereal. And you're like, yeah, there's some problems. But by the way, the fact that everyone can eat, we're in such a calorie-rich environment, is because of private companies. And so there tends to be a bit of an overly demonization, like private company equals revenue, profit maximization equals deeply suspect and bad. And that's a huge mistake. What it is, is mostly good with some blind

• 27:05Reid Hoffman?

  spots and occasionally bad, you know, like, oh, I'm going to sell you opioids or, you know, that kind of stuff. And so you have to kind of navigate through that, understanding the mostly good. And the mostly good isn't just because they provide jobs, it's also because they provide the entire infrastructure that we live in, right, for everything. And so the fact that AI is being built by private companies is like, well, if you had to pick, it's like, well, private companies tend to be much more like responsive to customers, responsive to how do we grow a very big market share? How do we get it out into people's hands? I do think that what is important is that we are capturing a very broad brush of engagement. That's part of the iterative deployment that's so important. And that

• 27:48Reid Hoffman?

  creates a dialogue, is that dialogue then allows us to go, oh, you know, the really important thing.

• 27:56Reid Hoffman?

  Isn't that Google screwed up making black Nazis in images? Yeah, that's kind of absurd and stupid. And yes, we should, you know, now iterate to not do it that way. And that was like, okay. But the really important thing is the more subtle questions around language bias judgment around different racial stereotypes embedded in lots of subtle forms of text. And we need to analyze that because there's going to be a lot of text generated from this. And that could be much more systemic. And we need to agree what that could look like. And then we go, here's how we measure it.

• 28:38Reid Hoffman?

  And that's the kind of thing that actually in fact is much more important to do. And you only learn that by having that out there and having people look at it. That iterative deployment, that engagement, broad swaths of people engaging in conversation allow us much faster to be on target for the things that we are trying to build.

• 29:02Speaker 01

  Part three. Taste and style are your competitive advantage in shaping the era of AI.

• 29:14Speaker 01

  There's this phrase that's become part of the modern lexicon. You've probably heard it. It goes, that sounds like something ChatGPT wrote. Meaning it has no soul, no perspective, no style. It comes off as a knock on ChatGPT, but what if this isn't a bug, but a feature? Maybe style is something that best comes from humans.

• 29:39Speaker 07

  The outputs are becoming more realistic and a lot more clear and high quality, where it allows me to kind of make it my style, put filters on it and recolor it and mask it and mold it and collage it in different ways to the point where people aren't going to be like. This isn't your style. This isn't what you do.

• 30:01Speaker 01

  I think folks have like assumptions that like if you use AI, it means that you phoned it in. It's like, oh, you just typed a prompt and hit upload. It's like, well, maybe some people are doing it, but like.

• 30:14Speaker 07

  The outputs are not good.

• 30:15Speaker 01

  No, no, exactly. It's like it requires an actual person knowing how to use these tools to make the output.

• 30:24Speaker 07

  And knowing yourself and your style too, I think is really important. It's a tool for me to express the thing that I'm seeing. It's just an idea that I have that I need to accomplish. And, you know, those prompts are very specific. I've got like notes and notes on different ones to use, different things that are my style, different things that I would rather I represent. And that took a lot of practice, but it's like worth it because now I know my style. I know what I want. And when I go to impromptu, it's not going to be some kind of, you know, digital anime kind of character thing.

• 31:04Speaker 07

  It's going to be very realistic output. Like I took a photo and I can edit it and I can do fun stuff to it.

• 31:11Speaker 01

  As a full-time evangelist for Adobe, Swoops was using their set of AI tools packaged as Adobe Firefly. Firefly is a standalone app as well as incorporated into other apps like Photoshop and Illustrator. With AI built directly into so many creative applications, the Adobe suite became like a playground of limitless potential for Elise. Then a photography trend started popping up on her feed that she found inspiring.

• 31:43Speaker 07

  There was these like videos that were kind of going viral where people would pull their phone up to take a photo of corners of buildings, like a look up or something, and then they would put tape on the screen.

• 31:56Speaker 01

  These photographers can integrate multiple pictures by putting tape on the screen of their phones. It allowed them to capture photographs of similar objects that were perfectly aligned.

• 32:08Speaker 01

  So Elise wondered, what if you could do this with AI?

• 32:11Speaker 07

  I don't know. It just like sparks out of my mind. I was like, okay, if, if this person is utilizing the tape to match the corners, why can't I use AI to match each frame that I want to create? I want to find all these buildings. So I'm just gonna sit here and figure out how to do it in a fun, unique way, without me needing to use the tape.

• 32:35Speaker 01

  Her now employer just released a new feature that would help called "Composition Reference." She could take one photo, upload that to Firefly, then create a series of AI outputs that matched the shape of the original photo.

• 32:50Speaker 07

  I knew that I needed to go downtown. I knew that I needed some high rises. I knew I needed a visual looking up to kind of get the grandness of city life.

• 33:03Speaker 01

  The first scene of the video shows Elise on top of a New York building, walking toward the camera, holding her phone.

• 33:10Speaker 07

  First, my fiance took a video of me. So you could see me walking up to the scene. I did want people to see me at the location, me pulling up the video and stopping towards the sky.

• 33:25Speaker 01

  Seeing that first shot, which is, you know, like the least AI of the whole thing. It's just you walking, holding your phone. That almost like plants you in reality a little bit of like, here's a human being who's about to make some stuff. That's cool.

• 33:40Speaker 07

  Exactly. Then you'd come into my phone.

• 33:44Speaker 01

  The camera zooms into the phone she's holding as she swings it up to see.

• 33:49Speaker 07

  Four different buildings and the edges of them. That's where I would cut the video, take that last frame of the video and screenshot it.

• 33:57Speaker 01

  With that screenshot, Elise had the original image to upload to Firefly. Now, inject a little AI into the process.

• 34:06Speaker 07

  Upload that screen grab or that photo to Firefly. And then you can have outputs that match like the shape and the style.

• 34:14Speaker 01

  Now to create the prompt that would tell Firefly how to transform her original photo.

• 34:20Speaker 07

  I'll go into like ChatGPT and I'm like, hey, gave me a bunch of different lookups for different buildings around the world. So it gave me like. You know, art deco and like coliseums and like underwater and all kinds of different stuff. And so I would just like copy those prompts and then I'd put it in the Firefly. I did about like 50 to 60 of them.

• 34:45Speaker 01

  And the ones she went with are stunning. The buildings are suddenly in the jungle, then underwater with fish swimming by, then in the middle of a thunderstorm, then a beautiful moon in the night sky. Now to edit them all together.

• 35:00Speaker 07

  There was a very common theme and trend with like sounds that were kind of like ch ch ch ch ch ch ch, kind of bouncing with the with the photos. And I kind of wanted to play with that, too. So I tried to have as many cool outputs as beats in that song to kind of keep the attention.

• 35:17Speaker 01

  On each beat, the photo transforms into another stunning iteration.

• 35:24Speaker 07

  Uh, yeah, and then I just exported the video and we were good to go.

• 35:30Speaker 01

  With this video that she was about to post, Swopes wanted to demonstrate to her followers that you can use AI tools to create work with authentic human style. She hoped it would create a version of the future where creatives were safe to try out whatever tool they wanted without being bullied. Overcoming adversity by using her art and her unique style is nothing new to Elise. When Swopes first began to find massive success, she experienced another kind of adversity, and it almost derailed everything. Let's go back to her early days on Instagram.

• 36:12Speaker 07

  Traveling to Japan, Dubai, Paris, you know, going all over the world. Even though there was a lot of amazing things I was doing, I was also like going through a lot of emotional issues. I had become addicted to Adderall. I thought I was ADHD, but I wasn't.

• 36:37Speaker 07

  I don't really think I was like in a good headspace, but I was still like actively gaining thousands of followers and finding success and doing all that stuff, but I just wasn't at peace.

• 36:51Speaker 07

  I remember talking to someone at Instagram and they were like, "You were really rude to me one time I met you. You didn't even give me a time of day." And I was like, "I don't even think I was like myself."

• 37:05Speaker 07

  I just quit Adderall one day and I was like, "I need to stop. I'm gonna die if I don't get this right." And then I called my mom and I was like, "Hey, I think I'm, I'm not feeling too good. I think I'm gonna do something to myself." So I went into the psych ward and that was a big shift for me. Um, cause I was like, "I don't wanna come back here ever again." And so it took a lot of years for me to kind of like, get into a place where I had a decent practice of like mental health and physical health and even spiritual health. I had always had to be aware and confident and kind and present with people, you know? And I'm still like that to this day because of those things. Like when I'm with someone, I'm like here with them. And I'm glad that I'm in a position now to like, talk about it and be proud of the growth I've had.

• 37:51Speaker 01

  Swopes used this story to inspire thousands when she got the opportunity to join the TEDx stage at LIUC.

• 38:00Speaker 07

  Hi, my name is Elise Swopes. I'm a college dropout. I've been addicted to drugs and I've been to rehab. But I've also traveled all over the world, worked with billion dollar companies. My mom brought home a 1998 Apple iMac computer. And this is where my creative internet journey began. I eventually owned my first website when I was in sixth grade and it taught people how to build their own website. It even had graphics. I eventually in middle school, started selling MySpace layouts for McDonald's cheeseburgers. I'd like to believe this is where my success. And eventually Instagram added me to the suggested user list, which was a list of. In college, I was so unmotivated that I felt like I needed Adderall to keep going.

• 38:45Speaker 07

  But it got out of control and I ended up in a psych ward in rehab. I had to make a decision. I had to decide. I had to wake up.

• 38:58Speaker 01

  During our conversation, Elise started thinking back on the choices she's made in life. Addiction, failures, even waiting so long to start working for a company.

• 39:08Speaker 07

  Yeah, I don't know. There's just, there's a lot, but I think I made all the right choices to an extent. But there's, I'm just so comfortable now and so happy that I'm just like, how the hell did I deny this myself for so long? It's a mess.

• 39:23Speaker 01

  Well, the way I look at it is every choice, good or bad, led me to be the exact person I am right now, and I like the person I am right now, you know?

• 39:33Speaker 07

  Absolutely. Even all my addictions and all my failures, I mean, all that stuff made me who I am. I wouldn't have a TEDx talk without it, you know? I wouldn't have the perspective, the knowledge, the gratitude that I have today. You know, I wake up at 5:00 AM, I meditate, I read, I write, I work out, I, I'm focused more than ever, which is huge to say compared to who I was when I first started. It's not even close, not even close, not even touching. But I had to go through all that to know it, and I probably wouldn't be the employee I am now if I didn't go through all that either. So I'm grateful every day.

• 40:12Speaker 01

  Back in the present. Elise is preparing to upload her video. She wanted to use her unique style to create a space where her followers felt safe using AI tools and to work toward a future where artists are free to explore their creativity without the fear of online bullying. Then she clicks post. The video went viral.

• 40:39Speaker 07

  I didn't get any negativity from that. No one complained, no one said a word, no one's like called me out on anything. They were just like, this is really cool.

• 40:51Speaker 07

  People were very motivated and inspired to try Firefly for the first time. And I think why it was so successful because there was such a thoughtful use for it that had never been done before. I still have to like implement some skill and some passion in there and some thoughtfulness. Deep down, that's kind of what that piece embodies. It's just my freedom to like do what I want to do, when I want to do it in the way that I see fit, while still being a part of this trending conversation, you know? Creating that, I think, was kind of like a, yeah, I can do this too kind of vibe.

• 41:32Speaker 01

  Reed, before we finish today's show, I want to hear your thoughts on this idea of embracing your own style with AI. Do you think that AI will ever get to the point where human style is unnecessary and obsolete?

• 41:47Reid Hoffman?

  You know, here's one more of those kind of little challenges, which is can AI never get to X? And you're like, well, I don't really know, right? And when? Don't really know. And that, for a lot of people, causes fear and anxiety. For me, it creates curiosity and mostly optimism and hope. I'm not blindly optimistic. And so it is of course possible that you can get to AI where you go, yeah, it's just so much better at all fronts than human beings. And it's like, you know, it's like the five-year-old trying to do that next to the professional adult. And you're like, okay, that's cute. Now, you go, okay, can you tell me that's not going to be the case?

• 42:32Reid Hoffman?

  And like, no, I think it's extremely unlikely. Like you go, it's not zero, so therefore it's terrifying. It's like, well, it's not zero that you die going to work today, right? I hate to break it to you.

• 42:44Speaker 01

  Right.

• 42:44Reid Hoffman?

  But it's not zero, right? And so you go, well, but that's so rare and so uncertain. I don't, I treat it as zero. And it's like, okay, well, maybe we can treat this as zero too. We're certainly nowhere near it. It's kind of the equivalent of worrying that we're going to die driving to work. As opposed to imagining the things of, well, but it's moving very fast and what is 10 years? Like, our imaginations are terrible at that kind of thing. And we tend to go to the, like, I can imagine the asteroid hitting the Earth. And, oh, my God, I'm gonna stay up at night because the asteroid's gonna hit the Earth. And you're like, well, but actually, in fact, look, an asteroid's gonna hit the Earth at some point, probably. And hopefully, by the time that the asteroid is coming to the Earth, we have figured out how to divert the asteroid.

• 43:28Reid Hoffman?

  And that's part of the reason why you go down the road and you iterate. Now, that being said, you say, well, we know it's getting better. It's improving a whole bunch. I can see it coming, that my unique creativity and inspiration and style is being outmoded in various ways. And I can see that already, and I worry about the momentum of that. Well, one, I actually have a fair amount of optimism that human beings figure out, like, oh, great. It's like painting and photography is kind of a conversation. It's like, look, photography, bad, painting, good. Photography will never be art. And you're like, no, well, actually, photography's been great. And now the fact that everybody has a camera on their smartphone and, like, yes, maybe people don't go.

• 44:09Reid Hoffman?

  And I stand in awe of Ansel Adams as much as I used to. But, you know, like, we have this range of expression and creativity and tools. And I kind of think that that's what's gonna happen. And even if you say, these get to superpowers that human beings can add very little into, I think there's still a lot of room for the value of human experience and human connection. And there's various ways in which we like things that are produced by humans for humans. You know, you could easily imagine and say, well, the AI can produce so much better music. But like, the fact that I'm sitting around in a bar, listening to, you know, a woman strumming her guitar

• 44:54Reid Hoffman?

  and singing her life story or an aspect of her experience, and that particular voice has a human connectivity moment that I'm like, yeah, yeah, I understand that the AI could do that in all kinds of ways that are like the way this woman never could. But I like this experience, and it's part of what reminds me of humanity.

• 45:16Reid Hoffman?

  So I think it's, I can't say for 0% you outlawed the human style, but I can say that everything that's visible is nothing anytime soon. And lots of maneuvers and things to experiment at and a lot of amazement to happen in the journey that we're currently in.

• 45:41Speaker 01

  Well said, Reid. While there are lots of potential timelines for a future with AI, rather than fearing the darkest one, perhaps we can take our cue from Elise Swoops.

• 45:53Speaker 07

  I know that there's like a lot of fear of change and a lot of like resistance to what could be, but like we make what we have what it is for ourselves.

• 46:06Speaker 01

  I love it.

• 46:07Speaker 07

  I'm not, I'm not afraid of anything. Granted, I should be like, there's, I mean, there's a lot of stuff that I'm, you know, so many creators making crazy stuff on their phone now that I couldn't even fathom made before, but does it like scare me? No.

• 46:26Speaker 07

  I just have to focus on my shit, you know? I gotta focus on what I'm trying to do. I can't focus on what anybody else is doing because that's their, that's them doing that. I hope people use the products, but I, I want people to be like at peace more than anything.

• 46:46Speaker 07

  I want people to like feel confident in their choices and who they are and why they do what they do every day. Because that in essence is going to make the world better.

• 47:07Speaker 01

  We hope you enjoyed this episode of Artful Intelligence. Next week, we'll have our final installment of this three-part series, where we'll tackle the question, how do you create a cultural paradigm shift with AI?

• 47:23Speaker 08

  Things that I'm scared of or nervous of, I tend to walk towards. I know if this technology exists, it's not going to go away. That's just not how technology works. Whether I knew what the repercussions meant for filmmaking, I knew I had to like try to understand it, to try to see what could be done with it that wasn't possible with the animation or wasn't possible with the camera.

• 47:49Speaker 01

  Artful Intelligence is produced by me, Chris McLeod. Massive thanks to Reid Hoffman. To follow Swopes on Instagram, head to @swopes. You can find the link in the show notes. Special thanks to Aria Finger, Sean Young, Saieda Sapiyeva, Ben Relis, Ian Alice, Parth Patel, Jack LaFortun, and the team at Wonder Media Network. Mixing and mastering by John Delore. This has been a Blue Elevator production.