Pod Insights Pop Culture Happy Hour The Fantastic Four: First Steps And What's Making Us Happy About this episode The Fantastic Four are back again in a new movie--and it's an eye-popping good time. The Fantastic Four: First Steps stars Pedro Pascal, Vanessa Kirby, Ebon Moss-Bachrach, and Joseph Quinn as the famously fractious family with amazing powers who tangle with a godlike being who wants to eat the Earth. We've seen this story before, but the vibe is different this time. It's a brighter, boldly colored retro-future with flying cars, semi-helpful household robots and lots of talk about the importance of family.
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0:36 Speaker 01 The Fantastic Four are back again. Marvel's latest attempt to kickstart a franchise around their OG superhero super team is an eye-popping good time. It stars Pedro Pascal, Vanessa Kirby, Evan Moss-Backrak, and Joseph Quinn as the famously fractious family with amazing powers who tangle with a godlike being who wants to eat the earth. Now, on a story level, we've been here before. This time out, though, the vibe is different. A brighter, boldly colored retro future with flying cars, semi-helpful household robots, and more talk about the importance of family than your average Fast and Furious movie. I'm Glen Weldon, and today we're talking about The Fantastic Four: First Steps on Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. Joining me today is Ronald Young Jr.
1:18 Speaker 01 He's the host of the film and television review podcast Leaving the Theater. Hello, Ronald.
1:23 Speaker 02 Hello, Glenn. Great to be here.
1:24 Speaker 01 Great to have you. Also with us is entertainment journalist and contributor Shahr Jassel. Welcome back, Shahr. Hello. Thank you for having me, Glenn. Ah, great to have you. And rounding out, the panel is Jordan Morris. He's a writer and the co-host of the podcast's Jordan Jesse Go and Free With Ads. Hey, Jordan. Hey, hey. It's good to be here to spend some quality clobberin' time with you all. It's always clobberin' time with you. Well, you know The Fantastic Four even if you think you don't. There's Reed Richards, played here by Pedro Pascal. He's a brilliant scientist with a super elastic body. Then there's his wife Sue, who can turn invisible and cast force fields. She's played by Vanessa Kirby. There's Sue's hot-headed brother Johnny, who can turn into flame and fly. That's Joseph Quinn.
2:06 Speaker 01 And there's Ben, a super-strong humanoid lump of orange rock. He's played by Ebon Moss Backrack. They live on a bright alternate 60s styled earth where the space age never ended. In the film, they face off against the quintessential Fantastic Four villain Galactus, who this time out is not a space cloud as he was in the 2007 Fantastic Four film. He is a giant dude in a knee length skirt and tuning fork helmet, straight from the comics, played by Ralph Einason. The Fantastic Four: First Steps is in theaters now. Jordan Kickasoff, what'd you think?
2:38 Speaker 03 Yeah, I think this movie is part of a nice trend, which is comic book movies that actually seem to like the comics they're adapting.
2:45 Speaker 01 There you go.
2:45 Speaker 03 It's fun, it's colorful, it is goofy goofy goofy. As you mentioned, uh, Galactus has a tuning fork helmet, there's a robot. All that stuff is so much fun. There is a lovely little tribute to Jack Kirby at the end of the movie, which I thought was nice. Jack Kirby, of course, one of the creators of the Fantastic Four and all your favorite comics. So yeah, I really liked the like reverence for the comics. And I also like that this isn't an origin story. Uh, we're kind of dropped into the middle, which I think Superman did so well earlier this month. I think that technique is so smart. I think it really kind of mimics how we get into these comic book characters. I think when you are a kid and you were browsing in the comic book store, or you know, when
3:28 Speaker 03 I was a kid, the grocery store, you're not picking up issue one, you're, you know, picking up Amazing Spider-Man issue 317 because the cover looks cool. And then you do your research and figure out the origins and everything. So I think this is really smart, not having to deal with all that kind of boring origin stuff. You're dropped into a world where the Fantastic Four are heroes, the world loves them, and you get to see some little snippets of their past adventures. This is a blast and a nice kind of comic book movie that I hope, uh, does well.
3:56 Speaker 01 Okay. How about you, Shark?
3:58 Speaker 04 You know, much like Jordan, I think, you know, even casual Marvel fans will enjoy this one. I went on Disney Plus prior to watching this and watched the most recent Fantastic Four. And then when I got in the theater, I realized that they had no connection. So I do love that you don't really have to do homework to enjoy this film. And my favorite aspect is I felt like I was like watching a video game, like a live action video game. True. On the big screen. And so that really drew me in. And of course, the colors were always an added bonus. But yeah, I enjoyed it for that aspect alone. You don't have to do much homework. I'd venture to say any homework to really enjoy and get the most out of this film.
4:36 Speaker 01 Yeah, because this is not in the MCU we know. This is in this own little separate space age world. And that's done very intentionally. Ronald, what'd you think?
4:45 Speaker 02 Well, when you say it that way, when you point that out, I think that's when I start to have gripes. Because I liked this movie. And I feel like nowadays Marvel has like two missions. Make a standalone movie that I like and then connect it to the movies that I've seen. And I feel like that is the rhythm that they've established since they started with Iron Man. And Samuel L. Jackson shows up at the very end. This one, I expected that this movie would be good, and it was. For me, it's a little bit of a line drive down the middle. But most of my quibbles with it come with the ways in which it's going to connect with the rest of the universe. Given that the next Fantastic Four film is essentially going to be Fantastic Four two point, well, 1.5, if you want to call it.
5:30 Speaker 02 And it's a team up with other, and I'm using big air quotes here, Avengers in the next one called Avengers Doomsday. So while I liked this movie, I almost wish that we'd have more movies between this and what comes next. Because I think it only goes downhill from here. And that's just me thinking bigger picture. But I know we're going to focus on this film.
5:50 Speaker 01 That's kind of a hot take. Let's have more Marvel movies.
5:55 Speaker 01 We're just in a desert here. You've all know the conundrum here, which is that Marvel movies, what thing that sets them apart theoretically is yes, they can tell a good story. But they also, you know, when you're reading a Marvel comic, Spider-Man can look up and see the Fantastic car flying overhead. Because this is a one connected world. And when you remove that, you risk doing something to the appeal. For me, it didn't. This is July 25 is the summer of the sunny superhero. And I am here for it. I am here for filmmakers, as you mentioned, Jordan, embracing the comics. No longer apologizing for the source material, for the goofiness of the comics, holding their nose, and attempting to create these other comics-adjacent stories and characters that are more cool and more relevant and more believable.
6:37 Speaker 03 Grounded, I think people like to say these days. Grounded. If you've ever gotten notes from an entertainment executive, that's something they like to say to you a lot.
6:45 Speaker 01 Spare me grounded. Spare me relevance. This is the last time we get it. It's done because those studios, they want the four quadrant hits, and they're definitely afraid of alienating people who haven't read the comics. But let me tell you, I can't speak to if this is gonna hit with non-nerds, cuz I am one. I can only say that, just like in Superman, which this film shares a lot of DNA with.
7:03 Speaker 03 Sure.
7:03 Speaker 01 When Superman said, "Golly, I relaxed and knew I was in good hands." In the opening montage of this film, we get a newscaster breathlessly listing, you know, the various Fantastic Four's accomplishments, including that they defeated the red ghost and his super apes. And I let out a sigh. I said, "They have understood the damn assignment. If you're gonna do it, commit to the bit. If you're gonna do Galactus, do Galactus. Do the tuning fork. Do the skirt that hits exactly the right point on the thigh." They had him glumping through Lower Manhattan like this kaiju with a stick up his butt. That's who he is. That's what you gotta do.
7:38 Speaker 03 It is kind of hard not to compare this movie to Superman, cuz I think, you know, Glenn, as you mentioned, they're cooking with a lot of the same ingredients. Optimistic superhero movie, kinda retro superhero movie. It's so hard not to compare them. And, you know, I did think Superman had more fun. There's a little moment in the credits here where you're seeing little stills. And there's a still of Pedro Pascal fighting one of the, uh, super apes that you mentioned. And the ape has grabbed his face and is like stretching it. And that was obviously from a scene that was cut. John Malkovich kind of famously cut from this movie. Maybe it was part of that scene. And that's the kind of like goofy goofballs comedy that I kind of wanted more of from this.
8:22 Speaker 03 So I did think this movie went in the right direction, but I don't know. Push it farther. Sillier, weirder, more apes, I think, is my. In general note for it, it needed more apes.
8:32 Speaker 02 You know what? I just, I feel like I have to set the stage and say, my two favorite superhero movies are Logan and Captain America, The Winter Soldier.
8:40 Speaker 03 Okay.
8:40 Speaker 02 And the reason why I like those movies is because when you turn them on, scene by scene, there's scenes that you want to watch and watch over and over again. I'm talking about the elevator scene from The Winter Soldier, or Logan, you could just go up and down that movie in terms of scenes that you want to watch over and over again. And I feel like what's been bothering me about Superman and about this outside of the Mr. Terrific scene in Superman, but specifically about Fantastic Four is while I will watch this movie again, there's no particular sequence of events in this movie that I'm looking forward to seeing again. Outside of their visit to Galactus, but nothing much happens, except they have to escape from there at some point.
9:19 Speaker 02 But we don't really get a full display of their powers, of them kind of going crazy and really just like being the Fantastic Four and going through something. There's no like cool one-shot scene like they do with the Avengers with these four. And I feel like that's what I'm missing from superhero movies right now, which is that bit of rewatchability from scene to scene. Which makes us, again, a fine movie, but that's the one thing where I'm just like, oh, I need more, come on.
9:45 Speaker 04 Yeah, I have to agree. Although I enjoyed it, it kind of drags a little bit as it's building up to what the viewer would think would be the climax, because I don't want to do any spoilers.
9:55 Speaker 02 Sure.
9:55 Speaker 04 I'll say as they go to outer space to go see, what's the villain's name again? Mr.?
10:00 Speaker 02 Galactus.
10:01 Speaker 04 Galactus.
10:01 Speaker 02 Mr. Galactus.
10:02 Speaker 04 Mr. Galactus.
10:03 Speaker 03 Mr. Galactus, if you're nasty.
10:04 Speaker 02 Galactus Esquire.
10:07 Speaker 03 Please, my father was Mr. Galactus.
10:09 Speaker 04 I want to be respectful because he terrified me. Oh, my gosh. When they go out of space to see him, it kind of dragged a little bit, and then it kind of picks up when they try to escape.
10:19 Speaker 03 Yeah, this movie has a lot of Pedro Pascal solving giant equations. That is a lot of this movie is him riding on a giant chalkboard. And whereas you do want a little bit of that, that is, you know, part of why we bought the ticket. But yeah, I'll just go back to some more apes would have helped this. Uh, there's a lot of like figuring out. How to Kill Galactus that is, you know, fun and cool and all the art direction is so neat. But there are stretches that feel a little bit inert, I think.
10:47 Speaker 01 I didn't have a problem with the Pedro Pascal character because, you know, he's given something to grapple with here, which I don't need him to brood. God help us. I don't need him to brood. But here he's a square jawed hero who believes, firmly believes that he can protect humanity. But he's also a nerd whose mind is constantly churning through worst case scenarios. So he is, at the end of the day, an optimistic catastrophist, right? That is fun. That's something we haven't seen before. You know who I was worried about, though, and I want to get everybody's take on this, is Sue. I like Kirby here, but Sue becomes a mother over the course of the film. And I worried that that was coming to kind of define her character in this regressive way.
11:29 Speaker 01 But then I thought, well, maybe I'm just being taken in by the 60s trappings and the 60s setting. Is that why I'm thinking that? She does get more to do. At one point, she gets a speech that's very important in the story of the movie, where she explains what family is all about. And it's one of those moments when movies, superhero movies, aim for relevance when they fail. Because even if we believe that that speech, which we can't get into too much detail here, but that speech convinced folks in the movie, in the real world, that speech would have convinced absolutely no one. You have to suspend your disbelief. But I was worried about the Sue character. What do you guys think?
12:01 Speaker 02 Characterization generally in this movie, I thought, was done well. If you look at the past ways that we've looked at Johnny Storm, he's been a lot more hot headed. They gave Ben Grimm this quiet simmer, which I thought also worked, and banter between him and Johnny. So I thought that those characterizations work, also like Pedro Pascal, like a lot of interiority, a lot of thinking. It wasn't like necessarily signposting as much as kind of just like delivering it in dialogue, which really, really worked for me. But when it come down to Sue, I felt like what they did well was talk about. When you are one thing and you become another thing and the other thing becomes more important than the first thing in some cases for you. And I feel like that's kind of what happens with motherhood.
12:42 Speaker 02 And I feel like it was done with just enough that it didn't, to me, over season the whole movie. But because it is a superhero movie, when we get to the climax of Sue having to do something later, it makes sense, the ways in which they positioned her and built up her character to be able to do that one thing, because the thing I thought about when it was happening was mothers lifting up a car to save their baby from underneath. That's exactly what I was thinking in that moment. And I was like, oh, then they did a good job for me here because this is the superhero version of that, and I hope that's not too spoilery.
13:12 Speaker 04 And I definitely thought about that as well. When I walked out of the theater, I was like, oh, I see why it's called First Steps. It's a play on words, you know? But I didn't look at it as regressive or her motherhood role like defining her per se, but it definitely leaned heavily into the tropes of like a mother's love and a mother's sacrifice. And I will say towards the end, it did seem kind of one dimensional. But I get it, like her role, I understand for storytelling purposes because it wasn't like that prior to her giving birth.
13:44 Speaker 03 I think that one of Marvel's great strengths has always been casting, and I think that's totally true here. I think the casting is great, and I do think Vanessa Kirby is really good in this. And she and Pedro Pascal have chemistry. And I think that these movies are kind of known for and criticized for being a little sexless and, you know, whereas, uh, things don't get too spicy. It is nice to see like a couple who loves each other and a couple who's attracted to each other. And you do think that the characters in this have adult relationships. It's kind of nice, and I think Vanessa Kirby being so good is a big part of that.
14:17 Speaker 01 Let me ask you all about when this movie would go to Galactus's lair and they have to escape from it, which, you know, Shar, I get your point about that seeming like a video game. That seemed like a cut scene from a video game. You beat the level and then you get the cut scene. Even in those moments, the Z axis, the like the third dimension, the thing that this movie has that a lot of other movies like this don't, is this production design. I wanted to live inside this movie, inside that apartment.
14:41 Speaker 02 To have that TV, the Manhattan of this film, you know, it looks like a movie set, but that's intentional. It's kind of unnervingly tidy.
14:49 Speaker 04 Yeah.
14:50 Speaker 02 In a way that doesn't seem at all real, which is why I loved it. What'd you guys make of the production design?
14:56 Speaker 03 I'm just so glad they still have Little Caesars in this world. I know this is an alternate dimension, but I'm still glad I can get a pretzel crust pizza.
15:05 Speaker 04 I thought that the design was beautiful. I know that during the big fight scene towards the end, I looked up and I was like, I know this is supposed to be New York City, but that building is in Chicago.
15:14 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah. I know which one they're talking about.
15:16 Speaker 04 It seemed like this hybrid city, like it takes place in New York, but it's like, I know that building is in Chicago, Illinois. And so I thought that it added to the flair. I loved seeing Natasha Lyonne. I think that she added to the comedic fodder of this film, even though she wasn't used to her fullest potential. It felt weird seeing her here, but I loved the character that she played and like those bright 60s colors. Like when we first see her character, it's reminiscent of like Daphne from Scooby Doo.
15:44 Speaker 03 Sure.
15:44 Speaker 04 And so I thought that the set design all tied in really, really nicely.
15:48 Speaker 02 It felt very Jetsons futuristic, which is a past view of the distant future. So I'm like, when you get that together, it's almost like a weird steampunk slick future type thing, you know what I mean? Which I, I really liked that. And no problems about like the costume design, the character design, the set design. I thought all of that was done well and with intention, which felt good to watch. It felt like we were watching a comic book movie for real.
16:12 Speaker 04 Yeah. When I was in the theater, you know, people were talking about like how the women in this film had these elaborate throwback like 60s beaufant hairstyles, with the exception of Sue Storm.
16:23 Speaker 02 Correct.
16:23 Speaker 04 She had a very modern beach wave.
16:27 Speaker 04 I'm like, they could have given her a little flip or something like a little bob, you know, to represent the time.
16:32 Speaker 02 Why couldn't she have a pillbox hat? Everybody else had a pillbox hat.
16:34 Speaker 03 I mean, full Beehive, right? Full Marge Simpson.
16:36 Speaker 02 Full Beehive.
16:38 Speaker 01 Let's do it. Well, that was what I was, you know, we're not comparing it to Superman, but let's compare it to Superman. Like, that movie is set in a recognizably contemporary time. So in 10, 15 years, the hairstyles, the fashion, the technology are gonna date it. This film is out of time, intentionally so. It's already a distant world. It's 15, 20 years from now, you can still go back to it. And that's done in a way, not only to kind of keep it from feeling dated, but also to preserve it as what it is, which is an homage to those original Fantastic Four comics we see in the opening montage. The cover of Fantastic Four, number one, is in there. We'll meet a character from Fantastic Four, number one, in the movie. It's just those kinds of things are what makes me pretty high on this movie. Tell us what you think about the Fantastic Four First Steps.
17:21 Speaker 01 Find us on Facebook at facebook.com/PCHH and on Letterboxd at letterboxd.com/NPRPopCulture. We'll have a link in our episode description. Up next, what is making us happy this week?
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18:46 Speaker 01 Now it is time for our favorite segment of this weekend every week. What is making us happy this week? Jordan, kick us off. What is making you happy this week?
18:53 Speaker 03 Yeah, if for some reason this weekend you're down at your LCS, your local comic book store, shopping for some issues of Fantastic Four, because you were so hot on the movie. A great comic book I am reading with a little bit of a different flavor. It's called Impossible People, A Completely Average Recovery Story, by the great cartoonist Julia Wertz. Julia Wertz does these kind of confessional slice of life comics. And this is her story about getting sober. It is really, really funny. It definitely leads you into the heavier stuff with a lot of just good old bodily function humor. Underneath of the yucks, there's a really, really touching, interesting, honest story here about getting sober.
19:38 Speaker 03 And it's really fascinating. It talks about what rehab is like and what happens when you relapse. It is funny. It is fascinating. And yeah, just really, really touching. I think Julia Wertz does this so great. And yeah, I think Impossible People is my favorite book I've read of hers.
19:54 Speaker 01 Okay, thank you very much. That's Impossible People by Julia Wertz. Thank you, Jordan. Ronald, what is making you happy this week?
20:00 Speaker 02 All right, so I know I'm late to this, what I'm about to say next, but I recently discovered.
20:06 Speaker 03 The Beatles.
20:07 Speaker 02 The dropout.
20:10 Speaker 03 There's four lads from Liverpool, ice bread.
20:14 Speaker 02 No, I recently discovered the dropout app. Dropout is, if you are familiar with college humor, a lot of the comedians and the actors from that started kind of this other streaming source, which one of their main shows on there is a show called Game Changer. It is a gay show in which the gay changes every single show. You've probably seen clips of this on social media, of that and another show called Make Some Noise, as well as Dimension 20. This app is like, if you gay theater kids and all comedians the keys to a public access television station with a little bit more budget, like, it's very simple. It's a lot of games. It's a lot of improv. It's kind of like this generation's version. Of Who's Line, but all kinds of different shows.
20:58 Speaker 02 I've just been binging this because it just feels nice to see people play and have fun and make up things in their imagination and have a good time with one another. Sure, there's plenty I could be watching on Netflix and Disney Plus and the others, but I've really been enjoying watching all of the shows on the Dropout app recently. So check that out if you can.
21:17 Speaker 01 Check it out. That's a great pick. I've talked about Dropout in the past. I've talked specifically about the yes or no episode of Game Changer, which if you haven't seen yet, Ronald.
21:24 Speaker 02 I have not.
21:25 Speaker 01 You're in for a treat.
21:26 Speaker 02 Oh, I'm gonna check it out.
21:27 Speaker 01 Once again, that's the Dropout app. Thank you very much, Ronald. Shar, what is making you happy this week?
21:32 Speaker 04 What's making me happy this week, and I know some people may throw tomatoes at me, but HBO Max's And Just Like That, the Sex and the City spinoff. You know, it gets mixed reviews. I love the sloppiness of the show. I probably will never stop watching it. If they run it for another six seasons, I'm gonna be there for all six. I love the evolution of these characters for better for worse. And it's just a nice reminder of how like, things don't really end. Like the sloppiness of life. So I've really been enjoying that. That's been bringing me a lot of joy this week.
22:07 Speaker 01 Okay, that is And Just Like That, streaming on HBO Max. What's making me happy this week? Things in Rings is a board game that brings all the pulse pounding excitement of the Venn diagram to your next game night. It's so easy to learn. It's simple in concept, but playing it really challenges both your abstract thinking and your logical thinking. You get a hand of five cards, right? And they're all physical objects. Your job is to place them within this Venn diagram of overlapping circles. Each circle has a different rule, and the specific rule changes every game. What stays constant is the kind of rule each circle has. So one circle has a rule that's always related to the actual name of the object, like the word itself, like has two vowels, has a repeated letter. Another circle always has to do with some physical property of the thing itself,
22:51 Speaker 01 its color, its weight, its size. The third circle is about the context you will usually find this object in, at a school, at a wedding, only at night, outside, whatever. You can adjust the difficulty of this game very easily. So you could play theoretically with either smart kids. Or very drunk adults. And that is the board game Things in Rings. And that is what is making me happy this week. And a reminder, we'd love to know what you think about this podcast. Please help us out by telling us what you like and how we could improve by completing a short anonymous survey at npr.org/pchhssurvey. We'll also have a link in our episode description. And that brings us to the end of our show. Jordan Morris, Ronald Young Jr., Shar Jossel. Thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me. Thank you. Thank you so much. I've had a wonderful quarter in time.
23:37 Speaker 01 Excelsior. This episode was produced by Carly Rubin, Janey Morris, and Mike Katzip, and edited by our showrunner Jessica Reedy. And Hal O'Kam provides our theme music. Thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. I'm Glen Weldon, and we'll see you all next week.
23:54 Speaker 00 Stay tuned for the following announcements and messages from our sponsors.
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