The Fall and Rise of Reggie Dinkins

The new comedy series The Fall and Rise of Reggie Dinkins stars Tracy Morgan as a disgraced former football star and Daniel Radcliffe as a documentary filmmaker who team up to make a movie. I know what you’re saying - another mockumentary sitcom? What if I told you that the creators come from shows like 30 Rock, Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt and Girls5eva? And that the joke density bears that out? The NBC/Peacock series also stars Erika Alexander, Bobby Moynihan and Craig Robinson. Subscribe to Pop Culture Happy Hour Plus at plus.npr.org/happyhour https://plus.npr.org/happy See pcm.adswizz.com https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. NPR Privacy Policy https://www.npr.org/about-npr/179878450/privacy-policy

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This message comes from Capella University. That spark you feel? That's your drive for more. Capella University's FlexPath learning format lets you earn your degree at your pace without putting life on pause. Learn more at capella.edu.

• 0:19Speaker 01

  The new comedy series The Fall and Rise of Reggie Dinkins stars Tracy Morgan as a disgraced former football star and Daniel Radcliffe as a documentary filmmaker who team up to make a movie. The twist? Radcliffe's filmmaker has also been publicly shamed, and the documentary we'll watch getting made is his attempt to put the past behind him. I know what you're saying, another mockumentary sitcom. Well, what if I told you that the co-creators and showrunners come from shows like 30 Rock, Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, and Girls 5 Eva, and that the joke density kind of bears that out? I'm Glen Weldon, and today we're talking about The Fall and Rise of Reggie Dinkins on Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR.

• 1:01Speaker 00

  Stay tuned for the following announcements and messages from our sponsors. This message comes from ProLon. With their five-day fasting-mimicking diet, a clinically-developed nutrition program with the goal of promoting fat loss while protecting lean body mass. Learn more at prolonlife.com/npr. This message comes from AT&T. Right now at AT&T, you can get the new iPhone 18 Pro for $0.00 with eligible trade-in. It has the ultimate pro-camera system and a big leap in battery life, so you can turn this deal into a long-lasting connection. Connecting changes everything. Requires trade-in of $230.00 or more and eligible plan. Terms and restrictions apply. Subject to change. Visit an AT&T store for details.

• 1:44Speaker 02

  This message comes from Google Workspace with Gemini. Ever notice how every new AI tool asks you to explain your business to it all over again? Google Workspace with Gemini skips that. You get Google's AI built right into the premium versions of Gmail, Google Docs, Sheets, and more. No new tools, no extra logins, just one subscription that gives you personalized AI right inside your actual workflow. Try Google Workspace with Gemini at g o o dot g l e slash Workspace with Gemini.

• 2:15Speaker 01

  Joining me today is one of the hosts of NPR's Code Switch podcast, Gene Demby. Welcome back, Gene. What's good with you, Glenn? It's so good to see you. And with us is culture writer Margaret H. Willis, and also great to be seen. Hey, Margaret.

• 2:27Speaker 03

  Such a joy to be here, Glenn.

• 2:29Speaker 01

  I'm glad you're here. In the fall and rise of Reggie Dinkins, Tracy Morgan is Reggie Dinkins, a former New York Jet who was banned from the NFL for gambling. Daniel Radcliffe is Arthur Tobin, an Oscar-winning documentarian whose implosion on a major film set went viral, destroying his career. The two men need each other, so Arthur embeds himself in Reggie's palatial mansion to make a documentary about him. Reggie's high-strung ex-wife is still his manager. She's played by Erica Alexander. Reggie's former teammate Rusty lives in his basement. He's played by the great and good Bobby Moynihan. Robert Carlock is one of the showrunners. He was the showrunner on 30 Rock and Kimmy Schmidt. Sam Means is the other. He wrote on 30 Rock, Kimmy Schmidt, and Girls 5 Eva.

• 3:10Speaker 01

  The fall and rise of Reggie Dinkins airs on NBC and streams the next day on Peacock, because that's the new normal. Margaret, what'd you think?

• 3:18Speaker 03

  I loved this show so much. The only thing that slowed me down when I was watching it is that I did have to keep stopping and like looping other people into it. I'm a Carlock head, a Carlockian. I'm locked in for Carlock. So, you know, I had a good feeling. I was optimistic. You tell me Girls 5 Eva, I'm like, obviously, I'm gonna watch all of that. That's my new personality. You tell me Football Player, I'm like, well, I'll give it an episode. Or 10, in this case, because I certainly watched the whole season. I've watched a few episodes multiple times. And two things here, I feel, are exceptional. One, there is the Carlock joke density and joke success. And the other thing that really, really, really delights me about this show is Daniel Radcliffe.

• 4:04Speaker 03

  I've known that he had something like this in him for a long time, because he's from the Carrie Fisher school of using F-U money and cultural cachet from one big franchise to sort of make whatever career you want for yourself. He's done an incredible job. He's done so many cool projects. He's demonstrated that he's a very good comedy guy. But him and his commitment to a bit, combined with the kind of bits a Robert Carlock-led writing team can come up with, is just delicious.

• 4:36Speaker 04

  Interviews are like jazz. You have to improvise. Feel it out. Like. Wow. Oh.

• 4:48Speaker 03

  There are some things that can't be clipped because they are physical. But his skill in delivering this material and the quality of the material. We know that he is a documentary professor. He teaches documentary filmmaking at the University of Maryland.

• 5:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:02Speaker 03

  But what we don't know until he needs to send his posters back to his office is that he works at.

• 5:07Speaker 04

  You can mail my posters back to me at the University of Maryland Center for Documentary, Anime and Pornography.

• 5:12Speaker 03

  That's a great joke. I'm dying. I'm weeping. I'm texting it to my friends. Congratulations, you have a great new show ahead of you.

• 5:19Speaker 01

  There we go. Okay, that's Margaret. Gene, you are the closest this show is ever gonna come to a sports guy. I mean.

• 5:27Speaker 05

  Steven, too.

• 5:28Speaker 01

  I mean, Stephen Thompson, sure, but you are a football guy. What'd you make of this?

• 5:32Speaker 05

  So, real quick, do you think Daniel Radcliffe was doing his own stunts?

• 5:37Speaker 01

  I really don't.

• 5:37Speaker 05

  That was one of the notes that I made.

• 5:39Speaker 03

  I believe it of him.

• 5:40Speaker 05

  He jumps over a car at one point and I was like, wait, did he jump over the car for real?

• 5:43Speaker 03

  Again, I believe it.

• 5:45Speaker 05

  So, I thought the show was a good hang. I don't think I was as high on it as you are, Margaret, but I really dug it. I mean, like, it's one of those, you both have commented on how joke dense it is. And every episode, at one point, I like cackled out loud or something. Like, I just laughed really, really hard.

• 6:00Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 6:00Speaker 05

  I was finishing up the last couple of episodes last night. My wife had gone to bed and I was like, oh, that was really loud. There was also like these sort of stretches, like, oh, this is fun. Like, nothing sort of, sort of stuck to me. Although, like, I have a lot of love for the cast. Like, I love Erika Alexander so much, so much. She's one of those people, like, why isn't she in more stuff? There's that weird, like, Tracy Morgan has this very strange way of reading lines that, like, it's one of those things, like.

• 6:24Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 6:25Speaker 05

  I think we, like, are used to it now, but it's still, like, it's just so, like, weirdly, like, disconcerting sometimes. Like, it's so funny, right? It's like, it's funny because, like, if someone else said this, this would not work because it's like the way that words come out of his mouth that, like, that makes these things work.

• 6:39Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 6:39Speaker 06

  I devoted my whole life to entertaining you people. Are you not entertained? Gladiator. Nice. The only thing this country loves more than a hero is tearing one down. Mm-hmm. Tiger Woods, y'all.

• 6:52Speaker 05

  Because it is like a very joke then show and it felt like sometimes there were these, I love a good stupid digression.

• 6:57Speaker 01

  Cutaways, yeah.

• 6:58Speaker 05

  I love that kind of stuff, but it also felt like the way the season ends that nothing really kind of happens, like, you know, and so, oh, no, we got to do this all again and like, we got to get the game back all together. And I was like, I didn't mind hanging out with these people, but it didn't feel like there was like, it was making a compelling argument for like, dun, dun, dun, like, let's come back for this like, crew of very like, you know, zany people, like, in their, you know, shenanigans next season. Although, like, you know, again, like, they all get moments to shine, like, Bobby Moynihan is one of those people who just sort of like, he's like, just like flits around the edges and makes things better, you know what I'm saying? I just, I don't know, like, I liked so much of the show and it felt like a good hang, but it didn't like, really like, stick to my ribs, you know what I'm saying? Like.

• 7:36Speaker 01

  I get that, I get that.

• 7:37Speaker 05

  But I'm very curious about how you felt.

• 7:39Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, like, this show could have been, from the premise, you think the overarching thing is that somebody going to be trying to wrest control of the documentary that's being made about them. We're getting a lot of documentaries now where the subject is the executive producer. And if it was about an overarching struggle, I think that might be a little less carlocky, you know, because again, this is a joke engine, this show, as opposed to an arc, right? And also, let's be real, like, if we're going to still be doing sitcom mockumentaries in the year 2026, we should stop with the Office Parks and Rec formula of pretending that the crew doesn't exist. And the fact that we're making the show explicitly about the interaction between the crew and the subject, I feel like that's overdue. I'm here for it.

• 8:17Speaker 06

  We pull this off, people gonna see me in a whole new light, like they did at the Pharrells movie. Did you know he grew up Lego?

• 8:24Speaker 01

  We've all mentioned Tracy Morgan. He is such a singular comic presence. Every comic has a Tracy Morgan, because you can, because again, his line delivery, his whole affect is so weird.

• 8:37Speaker 05

  It's so strange.

• 8:38Speaker 01

  He doesn't read his lines, he declames them. And here's the thing, that me, as a comedy nerd, what fascinates me is that he will often take a breath in the middle of a punchline, which shouldn't work. Comedy is all about timing, right? It depends on rhythm. And yet, he breaks that fundamental comedy rule.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  And what you end up with, he comes off as somebody in just about every role he plays. He's somebody who comes off as clueless but not stupid. And I can't define what that distinction is for you. If you ask me to, I will just point at Tracy Morgan because that's what I think he's doing. A thousand percent. And Daniel Radcliffe can do comedy. You guys should check out a show Miracle Workers if you haven't. He's so good on that show. He's been doing this kind of comedy. This is the kind of comedy he's made for, which is kind of high status guy brought low. But I'm going to take a little bit of exception with some of the things you said. I do think this show is a joke engine. I also think it's deliberately pitched to be a bit more grounded, a bit lower key than thoroughly goofy shows like 30 Rock and Kimmy Schmidt. Now, every show in the history of existence is less goofy and lower key than 30 Rock and Kimmy Schmidt.

• 9:45Speaker 03

  Right.

• 9:46Speaker 01

  Because those are joke engines first and character comedy second. Right. They're cutting the joke density a bit with baking powder. I don't know what you cut things with, but like, if Kimmy Schmidt is Greek yogurt, this is regular yogurt. And I wasn't buying that in the beginning because pilot problems, right? There is clearly an attempt to give everybody a bit. Right. Monica, the ex-wife, is uptight. Brina, the fiancee, played by Precious Way, is an influencer.

• 10:11Speaker 03

  Who's great.

• 10:12Speaker 01

  What do they find? She's great, but that's the extent of her character at first. But as the season progresses, I vibed with it. I got into the characters because they were, they do the smart thing that sitcoms need to do with characters is pair them off in different combinations. Right. So they can kind of bounce off each other. Yeah, you think it's going to be about resting control as stock, but that would be a little too much conflict, I think. And a little too, I think there'd be a, an edge that this show is interested in. This show plays to the heart more than that.

• 10:41Speaker 03

  It's not just the fake documentary thing that it's sort of biting from Abbott Elementary. I feel like it's also aiming for that type of heartwarmingness. And I think it's getting more like a heart tepidness. Like I'm rooting for all these characters. I like them, but like the emotional moments aren't what I'm there for. But maybe that could change with time. Like, I like all of them and I do like that they're just like solidly decent people across the board. You know, nobody is craven, you know, and that's especially in the later seasons of 30 Rock.

• 11:11Speaker 01

  Craig Robinson's character, his nemesis, is cartoonishly evil, but that's, that's fun. Craig Robinson plays like a malevolent Michael Strahan figure. It's true.

• 11:22Speaker 01

  Even though it's less joke dense, these jokes, Gene, I feel exactly the same way you do. Three or four times an episode for me, you get these precious diamond hard gems. These jokes that I couldn't imagine it's taken this long in human civilization to come up with because they feel like they've always been there, they've just been discovered. So the jokes are one thing. The other thing that brought me back every time, even when I, you know, we were getting some fakey emotional scenes that weren't really doing it for me. Then Bobby Moynihan's Rusty would show up. Now Reggie lets me live in his basement, you know, best friend stuff. I also run all of his social media. We went viral last week because I had a rash on my neck and a bunch of nurses reached out.

• 12:02Speaker 01

  And I think he is where I keyed in the most because he strikes me as the kind of the vestigial tale of 30 Rock. Because, you know, he's giving you so much more than what's on the page. He is written pathetic and sad and Moynihan's delivering that. But he's just too insanely funny and charismatic. So, I mean, I think in the early going, some of the actors are hitting their marks, delivering these lines. And there's, these are very quick scripts. And so you have to kind of, you want to hit your marks and deliver the lines. But Moynihan is just in his element here. I want to pelt that guy with Emmys. I think this guy is doing exactly what you need to do in this situation.

• 12:36Speaker 05

  I think about like Bobby Moynihan as this dude who's always done that thing. The very, very funny Tom Hanks skit from SNL.

• 12:42Speaker 03

  David S. Pumpkins?

• 12:43Speaker 05

  Yeah, the very funny David S. Pumpkin sketch. Glenn just made a face, this is a ridiculous sketch.

• 12:48Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 12:48Speaker 05

  And so much of that sketch works because Bobby Moynihan is just making stupid faces in the background. And just like, like, it's just very weird and like.

• 12:59Speaker 03

  You think that works because of Tom Hanks, but it works because of Bobby Moynihan.

• 13:01Speaker 05

  Because of Bobby Moynihan. Because like Bobby Moynihan, literally on the edges of the screen. And like, one of the things, like, just to go back to Tracy Morgan again, is like, I just remember when he first popped up, like, he was, you know, he's been around for a minute. But like, even way back in the day on Martin, like, he was, he played Hustle Man. His job was to come in and say completely outlandish stuff and it was hilarious. And it's weird to see how like that's evolved as he's gotten older. Because at first, like, when he first got to SNL, I was like. Is he in on the, like, it feels like, it almost felt like sometimes like he would maybe was being laughed at and maybe wasn't in on the joke that he was being laughed at. And now it's very clear that he like has like sort of like complete control of this thing that he's doing, this sort of very off-piloted thing that he's doing that we're like very used to. And so even in the early parts of 30 Rock, it's like, is he the butt

• 13:44Speaker 05

  of the joke here? And does he know that he's about the joke? It was like very, this sort of uncomfortable thing, place where he's living. And that is not, he's evolved to the point where it seems like that tension is some place that he's very comfortable. Like, to your point, Glenn, he's coolest but not dumb, you know?

• 13:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:58Speaker 05

  It's a very hard place to live, you know?

• 13:59Speaker 03

  I would clip a joke here, which is Arthur Estoban asking him, does he know what documentary means?

• 14:06Speaker 04

  Ready, you know what the word documentary means, right?

• 14:09Speaker 06

  Well, I assume it's from the Latin word documentum, meaning lesson or instruction. I took Latin in college because I thought it would help me meet Dominican chicks, but then I liked it.

• 14:18Speaker 05

  Yeah, that was so funny.

• 14:20Speaker 01

  That's a great line. This is one of those jokes. That's one of those diamond hard jokes. Like, why hasn't anybody made that joke?

• 14:25Speaker 03

  It is very special to be able to deliver all parts of that joke and have every bit of it feel equally plausible.

• 14:33Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 14:33Speaker 03

  Like, yes, you would think Latin would help you pick up Dominican chicks, but you would come to love it because you have genuine intellectual curiosity and, you know, 40 years later, you'd still remember it.

• 14:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, him, him knowing Latin is a runner. Turns out to be a runner that comes up in the show. But he's called upon to do something he hasn't really been called upon to do in, in like 30 Rock. I mean, like, he has to act. He has to be in a scene with another actor. And so the chemistry between Morgan and Radcliffe, that's what the show is built around. I'll be honest, I didn't always feel it. They're coming from two very different places comedically and theatrically, I guess, which is the hook. But I sometimes feel like when they're not firing off jokes and they just both need to be present in a scene together, I don't know if I always felt it. Was it there for you?

• 15:18Speaker 03

  No, I think that's true. I would, I would agree. I think it wasn't a distraction for me, but when I compare his dynamic with Arthur Estoban to his dynamic with the other actors on the show, like, he's got such a natural way with- Brina Precious Way, the dynamic with him and Erika Alexander is so good and well established, but there, yeah, there's a little bit less connection.

• 15:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that's the point, right? I can't fault it.

• 15:44Speaker 03

  Sure, yeah. I just hope Robert Karloff's bid here for sort of like broadly network appealing show that still has jokes for me and Glenn and Jean in it. I really wish it success because I would love to see this continue.

• 16:01Speaker 01

  And also because so much of the show was based on what's happened in the past, we do get cutaways to the past and we do, there is a wig budget, thank God. And there is a pretty solid wig budget in this show and there's stupid visual jokes, but they always get me. I'm a simple man and they always get me.

• 16:18Speaker 03

  I think it is very impressive that all three of us agree. We laughed aloud at this show while watching it alone.

• 16:24Speaker 01

  That's true. Absolutely. Well, we want to know what you think about the fall and rise of Reggie Dickens. You heard us, we're on board. Find us at facebook.com slash P C H H. That brings us to the end of our show. Margaret H. Willis and Jean DeBby, thank you so much for being here.

• 16:38Speaker 03

  Thanks for having me, Glenn.

• 16:39Speaker 01

  Appreciate you. Of course. And just a reminder that signing up for Pop Culture Happy Hour Plus is a great way to support our show and public radio and you get to listen to all of our episodes sponsor free, so please find out more at plus.npr.org/happyhour or visit the link in our show notes. This episode was produced by Liz Metzger and Mike Katsev and edited by our showrunner Jessica Riede and Hello, Kim In provides our theme music. Thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. I'm Glen Weldon and we'll see you all next time.

• 17:10Speaker 02

  Stay tuned for the following announcements and messages from our sponsors. This message comes from Scholastic with the next big thing in reading. Next is an exciting new line of publishing from Scholastic for kids eight to 12 years old. Each book features full color and black and white illustrations and irresistible storylines. Launching with The Luckies, rumor has it, the first book in a series about strangers turned stepsisters, and Arrival High, Avery's story about the chaos that comes when two rival high schools merge. Kids will need to know what happens next from Scholastic. This message comes from Google Workspace with Gemini. Ever notice how every new AI tool asks you to explain your business to it all over again? Google Workspace with Gemini skips that.

• 17:55Speaker 02

  You get Google's AI built right into the premium versions of Gmail, Google Docs, Sheets and more. No new tools, no extra logins, just one subscription that gives you personalized AI right inside your actual workflow. Try Google Workspace with Gemini at g o o dot g l e slash workspace with Gemini.