The Beast In Me

In the new Netflix series The Beast In Me, a writer played by Claire Danes struggles to find the topic of her next book – until a nefarious real estate tycoon played by Matthew Rhys moves in next door. He’s widely suspected of having murdered his first wife, even though her death has been officially treated as a suicide. The two cautiously get acquainted, as she tries to figure out the truth. To access bonus episodes and sponsor-free listening for Pop Culture Happy Hour, subscribe to Pop Culture Happy Hour+ at plus.npr.org/happy. http://plus.npr.org/happy See pcm.adswizz.com https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. NPR Privacy Policy https://www.npr.org/about-npr/179878450/privacy-policy

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This message comes from Capella University. That spark you feel, that's your drive for more. Capella University's FlexPath learning format lets you earn your degree at your pace without putting life on pause. Learn more at capella.edu.

• 0:19Linda Holmes?

  Writers know it's not always easy to find something you want to write about. That's why in the new Netflix series, "The Beast in Me," a writer, played by Claire Danes, has mixed feelings about the arrival of her new neighbor, played by Matthew Reese. On the one hand, he's a famous, rich, and despised real estate guy who might make a good subject for her next book. On the other hand, one reason he's despised is that an awful lot of people suspect he murdered his first wife. What can you say? Everything is about trade-offs. The two cautiously get acquainted as she tries to figure out the truth. I'm Linda Holmes, and today we're talking about "The Beast in Me" on Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR.

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• 2:25Linda Holmes?

  Joining me today is one of the hosts of NPR's Code Switch podcast, Jean Demby. Hello, Jean.

• 2:32Speaker 03

  What's good with your friends? So good to be here.

• 2:33Linda Holmes?

  It is so good to see you. Also with us is Kristin Meinzler. She co-hosts The Nightly on Hatch Plus. I didn't know that. Hey, Kristin.

• 2:42Speaker 04

  Hey, Lynda. Thanks for having me back.

• 2:44Linda Holmes?

  Absolutely. We are delighted to have you always. All right. The Beast in Me unites two of the true big shots of the prestige streaming era, Claire Danes, who of course starred in Homeland, and Matthew Rees, who starred in The Americans. Danes plays Aggie Wiggs, a writer whose memoir about her con artist father won a Pulitzer Prize. But in the years since it was published, she's struggled to come up with a new book, especially after the death of her young son and the breakup of her marriage. She's knocking around her fancy house all alone when she realizes she has a new neighbor. A real estate tycoon

• 3:23Linda Holmes?

  named Niall Jarvis, played by Rees, has moved in next door with his wife. She's played by Brittany Snow. The very busy, by the way, we should say, Brittany Snow. Jarvis is working on a major construction project that's running into various problems, but his bigger challenge is that he's widely suspected of having murdered his first wife, even though her death has been officially treated as a suicide. Aggie realizes that Jarvis might make a compelling subject for her new book if she can get him to trust her and cooperate. Of course, if he's a murderer, this might not be the smartest thing to do. There's also an FBI agent who's fixated on bringing down Niall and his nefarious father, played by the always nefarious seeming

• 4:07Linda Holmes?

  Jonathan Banks. And it's not clear whether this FBI agent is trustworthy either. The show was created by X-Files writer Gabe Roder, and the showrunner is Howard Gordon, who worked closely with Danes on Homeland. The Beast in Me is streaming now on Netflix. Kristin, I'm going to start with you. How did you like this?

• 4:28Speaker 04

  Well, I got to say, I was hooked from the first few minutes. It was one of those situations where Netflix Netflix is like, are you sure you should be watching this much TV? Are you still watching? And I, of course, am like, get off my back, Netflix. I can't help it. I love your show. I wanted to know from the beginning, is Aggie going to be able to get down to the bottom of things? Even though I found her completely unlikable, which I think is the point.

• 4:53Linda Holmes?

  Yes, I think that's on purpose.

• 4:54Speaker 04

  I also wanted to see what Niall would be able to get away with. He obviously is also unlikable, again, the point. And I wanted to see who would come out on top and who might not survive. Because it's kind of hinted at, maybe one of these people won't walk out alive. I will say, the only fault of the series, in my opinion, was the final two episodes. They did kind of feel like cheating. They did rely heavily on the flashback and confession. But in the end, I was fine with that because, to me, the show was more about the cat and mouse game than it was about the big reveal.

• 5:29Linda Holmes?

  I think that's fair.

• 5:29Speaker 04

  I might even say the big reveal wasn't even that big of a reveal.

• 5:33Linda Holmes?

  No, no. All right. So you basically dug this, it sounds like.

• 5:36Speaker 04

  Oh, I sure did. Yeah, I was there for it.

• 5:38Linda Holmes?

  Good. All right. Gene, what'd you think?

• 5:40Speaker 03

  The big reveal being not that big a reveal was like my issue with it was that like, it felt like a lot of times there should have been more tension than it let the slack out. I mean, nobody does distraught and obsessed like Claire Danes. Like, the first season of Homeland is like her sort of becoming unraveled as she sort of fixates on this thing. And Matthew Reese, I mean, America is like one of my very favorite shows, like one of my two or three favorite shows ever. And so I was like, this is for me. And I just felt very much like, oh, man, I wish this was better. I wish it was better. And my big issue was the lack of tension, I felt like. I felt like a lot of your suspicions sort of get confirmed very early in the show.

• 6:13Linda Holmes?

  Yeah.

• 6:13Speaker 03

  And so it felt like, oh, man, I wish there was like a little more mystery, a little more suspense.

• 6:18Linda Holmes?

  Yeah. They don't really drag out the idea of like, is he a creepy weirdo? Because pretty quickly, he's a creepy weirdo. And so you don't really get a lot of like, is this guy going to turn out to be misunderstood? But actually, he's not a terrible guy or anything like that. My struggle with this was that it felt very, very, very familiar to me. You know, you talked about Claire Danes playing sort of this kind of part. I felt like it was probably too close to other things I've seen her do. I think like, once the sort of like Claire Danes quivering chin became kind of a running joke.

• 6:55Linda Holmes?

  Then every time I see it on this show, it feels a little jokey, which I don't think it's supposed to. So I found that a little distracting. To me, the whole story of like, here she is and she meets this guy and everybody thinks he's a bad guy, but she's trying to like iron out, is he really a bad guy? Or are they going to have like a strange bond? Even though she's trying to play this game with him. And I'm like, I think I've seen her do that thing before. And you know, Kristen referred to the last two episodes, and I think without getting into too much that I don't want to say, shows like this have been doing a thing for a while where they will get you to a very tense point in

• 7:34Linda Holmes?

  the story. And then they'll be like, but wait, let's spend an entire episode jumping way back in time to a different story that focuses on different people, that introduces a bunch of other stuff. And yes, it's background for the story you've been watching. But here, it's the second to last episode. And it's just to me, the wrong moment to drain out a lot of the tension of what you're doing. And suddenly be like, but wait, before we do this, you know, let's tell you the prequel. Like, no, no, no, no. If you're gonna do that, you gotta do it earlier, man. Like, I can't, you can't do it in the seventh

• 8:15Linda Holmes?

  out of eight episodes. So I had sort of the same reaction as Jean that like, I really wanted this to be a little better. I just, I enjoyed parts of it. I think Brittany Snow is really settling in nicely to this like, weird, untrustworthy, or maybe untrustworthy part of her career, kind of akin to what she did on Hunting Wives. But I just felt like the whole thing was a little slack.

• 8:42Speaker 04

  I totally see where you and Jean are coming from. Again, the final two episodes were the things that really let me down the most. But I gotta say, your criticism of Claire Danes and her crumple face and her shaky chin and whatnot, I'm okay with those things about her. It's kind of like, am I gonna stop watching George Clooney play debonair roles? This is just what he does. This is his thing, right?

• 9:03Linda Holmes?

  Yeah, I get it.

• 9:04Speaker 04

  And I'm fine with that, but I also just want to piggyback on what you said about Brittany Snow. I thought she was a nice surprise in this and you said earlier, she's been very busy. She has been. And I've been delighted to see her really go in different directions. I feel like her thing was kind of frothy and delightful in the past. But ever since I saw her in the horror movie X, I'm like, oh, Brittany Snow, you're doing some stuff now. And I think her role here on this show is really good because I think a lot of people do underestimate her as an actress. And that serves her character well in this because her character is being underestimated a lot.

• 9:43Linda Holmes?

  Yeah, I think that's fair.

• 9:44Speaker 04

  Yeah, and it's great. At a certain point in the show, maybe a little too late, somebody points out, you're just a very vanilla social climber. And in that sense, her casting makes sense. She looks like this very perfect in a sort of suburban mall blonde way. Sort of character on the show and then maybe she's more than that. So she was a nice surprise on the show.

• 10:04Speaker 03

  And most of the mystery to me in the show was around her. It's like, what is her deal? Like, you know, there are points in the show where it's like, she might be more malign than she initially appears. The show sort of like plays with the fact that she's kind of hard to read because she is sort of a, if you said, a sort of perfect mall blonde, right? Especially as the show, when we get to the big sort of flashback, for a second, I'm like, oh, is she the sort of like, you know, is she the sort of fulcrum? Where the plot is like wrestle. As long as she was on the screen, it's actually really intriguing. Because it was actually unclear where her sympathies lay. Like she's married to this dude who we know is a sociopath, right? And it's like, is she enabling him? Is she trying to escape him? It's like a whole bunch of stuff happening.

• 10:42Linda Holmes?

  And I think in a way, when we were talking earlier about the fact that they weren't necessarily successful, at least for Jean and for me, with maintaining kind of tension in the story of like, who is Nile really? They're more successful in the question of who is she really? Who is his wife really? It's the Ambiguity that I wanted more of in the portrayal of him that you get from the portrayal of her. So maybe if I'd felt more like the show was more focused on her, I would have felt differently about it. And I will say, you know, for a show that has only eight episodes, they try to do a bunch of different things. There's a whole story about this

• 11:26Linda Holmes?

  real estate development that Jonathan Banks is trying to get underway with Matthew Reese. And again, it's not a huge revelation to see like Jonathan Banks is like a tough guy you don't want to mess with or whatever. But at least he's doing it as like a rich guy, which is a little bit different. But I didn't care that much about the real estate project. And every time they started talking about it, I was like, I'm not invested in this. And then, you know, into the real estate story comes this sort of AOC. I was gonna say AOC. Kind of alike, where they're kind of trying to do a little story about the corrupting of local politicians. And it's like, wait a minute, I don't think this is what this is about. Plus, there's also something happening where they're trying to deal with the fact

• 12:10Linda Holmes?

  that Aggie has and like, when was the last time I met a person named Aggie? I don't know. But they're trying to deal with Aggie's trauma over the death of her son. And there's this kind of side thing about vengeance, that I'm not sure they really land the plane about that. There's also this stuff about her breakup with her wife, I think they were married and are now divorced, who is played by Natalie Morales, an actor I really, really like, who really does not do a lot. That kind of gets, I think, a little shuttled to the side. So part of what I think happened is that there's a whole bunch of things they're trying to pursue. I just got to the point where I felt like, all right, I think it

• 12:51Linda Holmes?

  maybe got a little diluted for me by the number of threads.

• 12:56Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, I can see where you're coming from, Lynda, especially the real estate stuff. I agree with you. I'm like, I don't know if we needed that much real estate stuff. We could have had a little bit less of that.

• 13:04Linda Holmes?

  Every time they start talking about real property in a prestige show, I don't care. You're not Chinatown. I don't care.

• 13:14Speaker 04

  The thing is, I love real estate stuff. I'm all into real estate. I'm one of those people who scroll Zillow at night, but for the show, we did not need that much real estate. I agree with you, Linda. But I do think there was some potential with the FBI agents to be more interesting because when the first FBI agent shows up at Aggie's house, Brian Abbott, played by David Lyons, I did think, oh, is this guy on her side, on his side? Who is he really? But I thought that had a lot of potential. Unfortunately, I will concede they kind of took the gas out of him too early, too. I felt like they could have played with that character more.

• 13:50Linda Holmes?

  Right. And again, it's like too much for eight episodes. And so it feels like everything gets a little bit shortchanged. And I wonder if that's because as they were putting together this story, as we've discussed, like, they don't have that much plot for the story between Aggie and Niall. It's meant to be a showcase for these two performances. And so it's sort of like, they throw in a lot of other plot.

• 14:17Speaker 04

  But I will say, every time either of them is on screen, I was transfixed. I was like, these are great actors. They're doing a great job. I loved pretty much every time Claire Danes or Matthew Reese was on camera. I loved it.

• 14:30Speaker 03

  To both your points, right? Like, if there was more of them sort of doing the, you know, Clarice Hannibal thing, right? It was like if they were sort of just on screen together and sort of like sussing each other out. That only happens a couple times, right? There's a scene in which they're sitting on a couch and they're sort of, you know, just talking about their lives in sort of circuitous, effuscatory way. But like, that felt like, okay, this is something that's really interesting. These people are trying to like, feel each other out because they don't really trust each other, but they also kind of need each other in these very weird ways. But there's not a whole lot of that. Like, most of the show is not that.

• 15:00Linda Holmes?

  The cat and mouse.

• 15:01Speaker 03

  The cat and mouse thing. And so the rest of it is sort of, it's either one of them or the other. I think there's like a lot more potential for them being neighbors. Because at one point, his wife suspects maybe that they're having an affair or something. I don't know. I just wish they'd lingered on the very weird dynamic between the two of them.

• 15:16Linda Holmes?

  Yeah. The strength of it is these two, like, really good actors who, even if it felt really familiar to me, the whole point is like, they get away with it because they're them and it's fine and I still enjoy it. And Like, I did enjoy a lot of it. And like, you know, I think I watched the first four all at once when I first watched it. So like, clearly it was working on me. Like, I wasn't like, I don't want to watch this. I'm not interested in this. It's just that when I got to the end, I had that feeling that I sometimes have where I'm like, is this kind of television really repeating itself a lot? Or have I just been a person who has seen so much more of

• 16:01Linda Holmes?

  these kinds of shows than most people, that I'm much more likely to get to the point where I'm like, all right, I get it, blah, blah, blah. And then they start the flashback episode. And I'm like, oh, God, not the flashback. It's like, you know, similar to other shows where they'll suddenly be like, now we're gonna switch over and it's gonna be the episode about the doorman, you know, and we're not gonna see any of our main characters for a whole episode. Like, I'm starting to see, like, the quote unquote prestige TV playbook a little bit too much. But most people don't watch all of it. So like, so like, a lot of people, I think, would find it fresher, maybe than I do.

• 16:35Speaker 03

  I think the meta thing that was sort of sticking in my brain was like, the second screen of it all. Like, there are a bunch of times in the first two episodes in which someone says something, and then we see Claire Danes sort of putting it together and like, flashing back to the time that Matthew Reese said the thing. And it's like, oh, man, I like, it just felt like it was like, just in case you weren't paying attention. So it felt like everything was being spelled out very, very explicitly. And James Poniewozik coined the term like, the mid TV, the sort of rise of mid TV.

• 17:01Linda Holmes?

  Yes.

• 17:02Speaker 03

  And it has all the features of prestige TV, right? The dope lighting, like, sort of like, very atmospheric, really, really good actors who might be like, you know, kind of a reach for, you know, streaming show.

• 17:12Linda Holmes?

  Sure, sure, sure. Yeah.

• 17:13Speaker 03

  All those things, all the elements of a really, really good show. But just kind of like, eh, it's fine. Like,

• 17:17Linda Holmes?

  It's fine.

• 17:17Speaker 03

  And I felt like there's something about the Netflix of it all. I was like, oh, man, this is a HBO show. Not that HBO is like, doesn't have stinkers, whatever.

• 17:26Linda Holmes?

  I know what you're saying.

• 17:26Speaker 03

  But like, it was just like, oh, man, this has all the pieces of a better thing. But I just kept feeling like, oh, they're plotting this out in a way that is meant to remind you, just in case, you know, like, walked out the room to go pee, or, you know, get something to drink. Like, there's just like, this sort of like, and remember, this is what's happening. And I felt like that was really, really explicit in the show.

• 17:47Linda Holmes?

  I think Netflix in particular is kind of known for expecting that from people who make shows for them, that you kind of have to make it watchable and followable. For people who are kind of only half paying attention to it. And that's really challenging with a show that's as dense as this is. Like, it would have been really hard to do that with, like, The Sopranos or Homeland, frankly. And it's interesting, the other thing I thought about, you know, when you were talking about Netflix shows, and there have been a couple of good pieces of writing about this, but Netflix shows also tend to have a look to them. They look very similar. I was interested in the fact that this, and this may be partly because of the power of some of the people involved, but I think of it as very contrasty, just in the visual look and the way it's shot.

• 18:31Linda Holmes?

  And you never know quite how much of this is like your TV versus whatever. To me, it looked more like intentionally kind of gritty looking, which I get and which I thought was a good choice because I think it's supposed to stress, particularly with Aggie, how kind of haggard she is at the beginning of this and how tired and kind of disappeared into herself. You know, her house is like kind of starting to not work and there are these like maybe slightly on the nose moments where there's like something gross coming up out of her drains and, you know, something is wrong and, you know. But I did think they tried to go for a slightly different look to the visuals than I've seen

• 19:15Linda Holmes?

  in some of the other, you know, many of the Netflix shows that look exactly like each other.

• 19:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, I will say it's especially obvious during that flashback episode how they are trying to change the lighting and be very deliberate about it. And stark versus dark, which are two different things, if you know what I mean. So I definitely saw that here. It didn't, you know, look the same as Thursday Murder Club, which looks the same.

• 19:38Linda Holmes?

  That's what I'm talking about.

• 19:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, which looks exactly the same as the show that's everyone's getting murdered on that one boat, which looks exactly the same as that other show, which is A Romance, you know? And so I would agree with you, Lynda. I liked the way the show looked. I thought that added to the show personally.

• 19:54Linda Holmes?

  I'm going to be really fascinated to see how it's received because it's like I didn't think it was bad. I just kept watching it thinking like, I feel like I've watched this before. Like, right down to like, if you write a show about an author, somehow I feel like at the end of the show, they're going to be reading from their book and explaining everything they learned. And it's not their fault that I've seen that, but I've seen it.

• 20:20Linda Holmes?

  Well, we want to know what you think about the beast in me. Find us at facebook.com/PCHH. That brings us to the end of our show. Kristin Meinzner, Jean Demby, thank you so much for being here.

• 20:30Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 20:31Speaker 03

  Appreciate you for that.

• 20:32Linda Holmes?

  And just a reminder that signing up for Pop Culture Happy Hour Plus, that is a great way to support our show and support public radio. And you get to listen to all of our episodes sponsor free. So please go find out more about that. You can find that at plus.npr.org/happyhour or visit the link in our show notes. We appreciate it also if you're already doing that. This episode was produced by Carly Rubin, Liz Metzger, Mike Katsif, and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy. There's no beast in any of those people. And Hello Come In provides our theme music. Thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. I'm Linda Holmes, and we'll see you all next time.

• 21:18Speaker 00

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