Pod Insights Pop Culture Happy Hour How to Train Your Dragon About this episode Disney has been remaking its animated classics for years to great financial success – Lilo & Stitch has been dominating the box office for weeks now. So it's no surprise that DreamWorks is now getting in on the action with a remake of How to Train Your Dragon. It's full of epic battles, majestic countrysides and, of course, dragons galore.
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0:00 Speaker 00 This message comes from Capella University. That spark you feel? That's your drive for more. Capella University's FlexPath learning format lets you earn your degree at your pace without putting life on pause. Learn more at capella.edu.
0:19 Stephen Thompson? Disney has been remaking its animated classics for years to great financial success. Lilo and Stitch has been dominating the box office for weeks now. So it's no surprise that DreamWorks is now getting in on the action with a remake of How to Train Your Dragon. It's full of epic battles, majestic countrysides, and of course, dragons galore. I'm Stephen Thompson. Joining me today on NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour is Regina Barber. She's a host and reporter for NPR's science podcast, Short Wave. Hey Regina. Hey Stephen. Also with us is Jordan Morris. He's a writer and the co-host of the podcast's Jordan Jesse Go and Free with Ads. Hey, Jordan.
0:56 Speaker 02 Hey, it's good to be here.
0:57 Stephen Thompson? It is a pleasure to have you both. So if your memory doesn't extend all the way back to the bygone days of 2010, How to Train Your Dragon was a hugely successful animated film about a boy named Hiccup. He's the son of a fierce Viking leader named Stoic. And in typical animated movie fashion, Hiccup doesn't want to follow in his father's footsteps, which in this case would mean protecting his remote island home from marauding dragons. Hiccup is more of an artistic inventor type, which puts him at odds with not only his father, but, well, everyone. Soon, Hiccup finds a wounded dragon he names Toothless and learns that killing dragons isn't so necessary after all. Both the live-action and animated movie versions of How to Train Your Dragon tell essentially
1:39 Stephen Thompson? identical stories, which are adaptations of a book series. Both feature Gerard Butler as Hiccup's father Stoic. Writer-director Dean DeBloa also co-wrote and co-directed the original animated How to Train Your Dragon. So the primary difference, besides the notably longer runtime, is that animation has given way to live action, with Mason Fames taking on the role of Hiccup.
2:00 Speaker 03 I don't want to fight dragons.
2:02 Speaker 04 Come on. Yes, you do.
2:04 Speaker 03 No, let me rephrase. I can't kill dragons.
2:08 Speaker 04 But you will.
2:09 Stephen Thompson? The new version is in theaters now. Jordan, I'm going to start with you. What did you think of How to Train Your Dragon?
2:14 Speaker 02 Yes, I'm a fan of these movies. I'm a fan of the animated trilogy. I think I've seen them all, probably all on planes.
2:23 Stephen Thompson? To truly capture the scope and majesty.
2:25 Speaker 05 That's how you know you love them. They feel so much better then.
2:28 Speaker 02 Right. I just want to make sure that I cry. I want to make sure that I cry so I get that altitude. I'm in the pocket for these because I am a cat weirdo.
2:36 Stephen Thompson? Oh, me too, bud.
2:37 Speaker 05 Oh, same.
2:37 Stephen Thompson? Oh, my God, we're with Regina Barber.
2:39 Speaker 05 Yeah, four cats.
2:40 Stephen Thompson? Biggest cat weirdo at NPR.
2:41 Speaker 02 Uh, if my cat bug is listening, hi, honey. Daddy loves you. And, and the, the dragon, the main dragon in this Toothless is very cat coded. It like acts like a cat. It has like cat mannerisms. So like, I'm in the pocket. I love these. Yeah. So I like this story and I like these characters, but it is just very hard not to watch this movie without asking the question, why? Why are we doing this? Why are we remaking these animated movies in live action, basically shot for shot? I like the characters. I like the world, but it was tough not to be distracted by the question of why am I watching this?
3:18 Stephen Thompson? So it's a live action remake of an animated film is what you're saying?
3:21 Speaker 02 Yes.
3:22 Stephen Thompson? I feel like that's the process. Every time we convene to talk about a remake of an animated film is like,
3:27 Speaker 05 Why?
3:27 Stephen Thompson? Why?
3:27 Speaker 05 Because it's shot for shot, it makes me think of like a high school doing like cabaret or something like we don't go to a high school to watch like a Broadway show and be like, this is where it's gonna be good. You know what I mean? Like, why? I watched the animated movie a few years after. I didn't see it in the theaters a few years after it came out. And I saw it with my daughter and we really liked it. And I think it was like a near perfect animated, you know, like it was quick, it was clear, it was emotional. I don't know why anyone who liked the animation would want to watch this, but if you haven't watched the animation, it's an okay movie.
4:02 Speaker 02 And especially with this property, right? Like it's in a world that has a rich history. You can tell the humans and the dragons have been fighting for centuries. There's obviously like room to tell the story after the last animated movie. So it is weird. Like if you wanted to make a live action, one of these, not to just tell a different story in the world. I mean, obviously I think the answer is we know this movie worked once, so it'll probably work again. So it's just an easier financial bet for people, but just like, Creatively, I would want to see a live action story set in this world. It just felt pointless to watch the same one over again.
4:39 Speaker 05 A different story.
4:40 Stephen Thompson? Yeah, there is a sense like, write a new story.
4:42 Speaker 05 Yeah.
4:43 Stephen Thompson? This is a pretty rich vein of storytelling. I liked all three animated films. I'm kind of left posing that same question of why. Now, at the same time, I had the experience watching this film. You know, I watched it on a, you know, giant IMAX screen. I was sitting there like, this is such a great story. These are such great characters. I think, Jordan, you hit the nail on the head. The fact that the dragon is cat coded does lead me to love it more.
5:09 Speaker 02 It might be a Rorschach dragon where no matter what pet you have, you see your pet. Maybe the bird weirdos see it as a big bird.
5:18 Stephen Thompson? It's like a big ferret with wings.
5:19 Speaker 02 Yeah.
5:20 Speaker 05 The writer actually said he did focus dragons to be cat coded. This is lore.
5:25 Stephen Thompson? So at the same time that we're sitting here and kind of vexed by this question of why, right?
5:30 Speaker 02 Yeah.
5:30 Stephen Thompson? At the same time, I watched this film and I enjoyed it enormously. Why did I enjoy it enormously? Because I love this story. I love the original film. I love these characters. I love the dragons. I love the message. I think the message of this film that we should take a step back and consider nonviolent approaches to the challenges we face is a really powerful one and a really poignant one. And I find these films very poignant that way. I've watched a lot of these live action remakes. We say live action, but there is so much CGI.
6:02 Speaker 02 Yeah, it does almost feel like it's just you're watching a different kind of animation.
6:07 Stephen Thompson? Totally.
6:07 Speaker 02 I've got an old guy take here, if you would permit one.
6:10 Stephen Thompson? Would I turn down an old guy take?
6:12 Speaker 02 That would be pretty hypocritical of you, I realize.
6:16 Speaker 02 You know, how cool would this have been with some Henson puppets?
6:21 Speaker 05 I agree.
6:22 Speaker 02 That seems like that's the creative reason to do it in live action, right? Like have a tangible, touchable thing instead of just, yeah.
6:32 Stephen Thompson? So I should clarify, they did use some puppetry. It's kind of a mix of puppetry and CGI, but frankly, to my eyes, it all looks like CGI.
6:39 Speaker 02 Yeah.
6:39 Speaker 05 This made me think, just watching the trailers, made me think of Who Framed Roger Rabbit. Rabbit.
6:43 Speaker 02 Oh, yeah.
6:43 Speaker 05 And it made me think about how the original was CG. It was, you know, so like they're just putting people into the animated movie. And it just seemed very uncanny valley and it just seemed very like weird. And I feel like if you're gonna do something live action, I agree with you. I didn't even think of the puppets, but like Who Framed Roger Rabbit was good because one, it was an original story. They were completely different. It was like 2D animation and people. It was very clear that it was two different things.
7:12 Speaker 02 Yeah.
7:13 Speaker 05 And this is like, I don't know, they're too close and it's too close to like just inserting humans into an animated movie. It, I didn't like that part.
7:21 Speaker 02 There are some videos of like, um, I think it's at Universal Studios. There are like, they've dressed up some of those brobots to look like Toothless and some of the other dragons.
7:30 Speaker 05 Yeah. Oh, I've seen it.
7:31 Speaker 02 And they walk around the park and they look so cool. And it's like, I don't know, should that have been the approach to remaking this? Like have physical tangible things? I don't know. It seemed like if that was the pitch, I'd be more likely to go along with it.
7:44 Stephen Thompson? Yeah, I mean, I think sometimes you get a sense when you're watching these films that you're just watching like tech demonstrations.
7:49 Speaker 05 Sure.
7:50 Stephen Thompson? And I've had that reaction to some kind of later period Pixar movies where like this movie exists to show me that you know how to animate water better. But you're not necessarily bothering to tell me a great story. I agree with what you're saying. I'm glad you brought up Who Framed Roger Rabbit, Regina, because
8:06 Speaker 05 Yeah.
8:07 Stephen Thompson? there are examples of like early special effects driven properties, you know, that are now 40 years old, but still look state of the art because that technology is deployed really creatively. The video for Aha's Take on Me
8:22 Speaker 05 Yeah.
8:22 Stephen Thompson? still looks amazing to me because it's creative.
8:26 Speaker 02 Safe place for old guy takes.
8:28 Stephen Thompson? You want an old guy take, let's talk about Aha. You know, that element of this film, you know, the, the fact that it quote unquote, looks better or it looks more realistic or, you know, it incorporates the, you know, these effects that they, maybe they didn't have access to all of this effects technology 15, in the olden days of 2010.
8:45 Speaker 05 Yeah.
8:45 Stephen Thompson? It's not necessarily deploying those effects to any creative end beyond making a recreation of an existing movie. The feeling I had over and over again, watching this film, was wow, this cover band kicks ass. At some point, you do, as a viewer, need to sort of take a step back and be like, okay, what is this trying to do? What is the creative swing here? What are they aiming for? And like, what they're aiming to do is create a live-action recreation of an animated movie. Basically, it's if you love How to Train Your Dragon, but hate animation.
9:20 Speaker 05 Or you think animation is too childish.
9:22 Stephen Thompson? To me, I think that's completely ridiculous, because animation is incredible.
9:26 Speaker 05 Right.
9:26 Stephen Thompson? And the animated film managed to tell this story in under an hour and 40 minutes, whereas this movie is more than two hours.
9:36 Speaker 05 It's so much longer for no reason, scene by scene, yet still longer.
9:40 Speaker 02 It is a weird time vortex, isn't it? It feels like the exact same movie, but longer? I haven't seen the original in a minute, but I'm kind of struggling to remember like, what was added.
9:50 Stephen Thompson? There are a few scenes that are added. There are also just scenes that take longer. You know, and some of these battle sequences are definitely fleshed out. You know, where you're able to shorthand some things with animation that you kind of, just in terms of sheer physics,
10:04 Speaker 05 Yeah.
10:04 Stephen Thompson? wind up having to kind of put more on the screen. You know, Regina could explain the physics far better than I could.
10:10 Speaker 05 It's basically like, in animation, things are so simplified.
10:13 Stephen Thompson? Right.
10:14 Speaker 05 I think there's fewer things on the screen. So you can actually tell a story and you can kind of have the viewer focus on something that's happening. But when something is more realistic, I think there's too much going on, too, that you actually have to put in actual words, like dialogue, to explain what you're seeing. I think that's what's happening, too. And, but I agree with Stephen, like, you know, if you want something to look like it's actual, real-world physics, you probably do have to add in some more movement and stuff like that, and that's probably gonna take time.
10:43 Speaker 02 And, you know, maybe worth talking about the source material a little bit. I agree with you, Stephen. I do love the message of this movie, and I think it's a really great message for now. And I think that's maybe a good argument for like, why put this movie out again? The like, empathy and the kind of like, get to know the thing that you fear, rather than attack it. It is great. And, you know, it is a movie where the main character's asking the question, why do we have to kill dragons? The third act is killing a big dragon.
11:12 Stephen Thompson? Well, that dragon needed to be killed, Jordan.
11:14 Speaker 02 That's right. Yeah. Understand all dragons, except the one that is bad.
11:19 Speaker 05 You know, why did they get rid of the catnip scene, too? They changed the catnip scene to be this dandelion scene. And I was like, was that too close to like?
11:28 Stephen Thompson? Right. Yeah. I mean, I think they saw an opportunity to create a beautiful visual. Like this kind of field of dandelion spores was really lovely. And I really looked at it like, oh, that's a very pretty scene. I could see a still of that and be like, oh, what a beautiful shot.
11:43 Speaker 05 Okay.
11:43 Stephen Thompson? You know, because it's the same kind of writer, director revisiting this. You know, there's one thing that I was kind of seeing recurring in interviews with him, where he's talking about like, I just saw opportunities to flesh some things out. I saw opportunities to make it a deeper, richer story. And obviously, he's trying to sell you on this new project. But I'm sure that in 15 years, he's thought, oh, I should have done that with dandelion spores. Is probably what's happening there.
12:08 Speaker 05 I have a question. Have either of you read the books? Because I haven't, and I didn't know if the books were like scene for scene to the animated movie.
12:17 Stephen Thompson? It's loosely adapted from the books.
12:20 Speaker 05 So why didn't they do the live action related more to the book then? And then it's like the world and it would have been more interesting.
12:27 Speaker 02 Oh, yeah. That's a kind of a good reason to remake it. Yeah, you're right.
12:30 Stephen Thompson? They certainly could have found a different approach to the material than just retelling it accurately.
12:36 Speaker 05 I just want to make the comment that like, I know they picked the main guy because he like, he seems very Hiccup like and he looks like Hiccup.
12:43 Stephen Thompson? You're talking about Mason Thames?
12:44 Speaker 05 Yeah, Mason Thames. They picked Mason Thames because, you know, he looked like Hiccup. Maybe he sounds like Hiccup. But for me, it really, really felt like High School Musical, Disney, generic guy that goes in there. No, you know, shade to him. He did his best. But like, it just seems so generic to me, like, like a TV movie.
13:04 Speaker 02 I felt similarly. I think the new cast, they're all good actors, charm to spare on everybody.
13:10 Speaker 05 Yeah, agreed.
13:10 Speaker 02 I felt like they did not nail the comedy. I think this is a very funny script. And like, you really realize that those original voice actors. Actors were all comedy pros, right? It's America Ferrera, it's Kristen Wiig, it's Jay Baruchel. Like, people who know how to juice a joke, you know?
13:26 Speaker 05 Yeah.
13:26 Speaker 02 The new kids are are good and they're charming, but like, they are acting like they're in a Netflix YA show where they're all werewolves or have terminal illnesses or something. I don't know what those are about. But yeah, it does seem like everybody's kind of in the wrong movie, especially when it comes to the to the comedy.
13:45 Stephen Thompson? So you're not clamoring for more DreamWorks movies to be remade as live action? You don't want to see a live action Shrek? You don't want a live action Kung Fu Panda? You don't want a live action B movie?
13:54 Speaker 05 Shrek has a musical. I will say I did, you know, Stephen, we saw each other for Minecraft, and I actually did like that, but that wasn't word for word. That was in a new world.
14:04 Stephen Thompson? Oh, boy.
14:05 Speaker 05 And it was ridiculous, and everyone was committed to the ridiculousness.
14:08 Stephen Thompson? That's why you hire Jack Black. You want commitment to the bit.
14:11 Speaker 05 And Jason Momoa.
14:12 Speaker 02 I I have not seen that movie, but I gather the story is like, real humans enter video game. And let's like, that has a reason to be half live action, half. As it as it Roger Rabbit, like, that's like the best story reason to use that tech. Right? As opposed to just like, we want to redo a movie and make more money. It's like, yeah, I think there is a world where you can like, have these humans in these animated worlds, and it will look cool and make sense story wise. But yeah, this just didn't have that reason.
14:42 Speaker 05 I do want to say one thing I did like about the movie.
14:44 Speaker 02 Oh, please.
14:44 Speaker 05 There's colorblind casting, and they actually explained why that was. And they were like, look, there's all these people from all over the world, and we all settled here together to like defeat these dragons. And I was like, great, they explained it, let's move on.
14:56 Speaker 02 Yeah, and one line, too. I also appreciated that because you knew that's, you know, I imagine that could be something people would complain about online. And they're just like, here is a story reason for this.
15:07 Speaker 05 Yeah.
15:08 Speaker 02 And yeah, and it totally does make the movie better. I like seeing like, all kinds of Vikings in the little Viking town. It was very cool.
15:14 Stephen Thompson? I thought it was a very good cover band.
15:16 Speaker 05 I agree with you. Out of all the live action things I've seen, I think it's one of the better ones. I just don't know why.
15:21 Stephen Thompson? I gotta say, it's maybe my favorite live action remake that I have seen yet.
15:25 Speaker 05 Mine's Cinderella.
15:26 Stephen Thompson? Yeah, I just wish they would stop making them.
15:29 Speaker 02 I hadn't seen any of them. This was my first one, so.
15:32 Stephen Thompson? Oh, well, the bar has been set higher than.
15:35 Speaker 05 Don't watch any other ones.
15:36 Stephen Thompson? Most of these movies will clear. All right, well, we want to know what you think about How to Train Your Dragon. Find us on Facebook at facebook.com/PCHH and on Letterboxd at letterboxd.com/NPRPopCulture. We'll have a link in our episode description. Up next, what is making us happy this week?
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17:31 Stephen Thompson? Now it's time for our favorite segment of this week and every week. What's making us happy this week? Jordan Morris, what's making you happy this week, buddy?
17:37 Speaker 02 Yeah, I like to recommend comic books in this segment, so I'm gonna do it again.
17:42 Stephen Thompson? Yeah.
17:42 Speaker 02 I just recently read a great book called The Last Mermaid by Derek Kirk Kim, written and drawn by. Here's the pitch, it's great. It's about a lone mermaid who has to survive a post-apocalyptic wasteland by piloting a mech suit filled with water.
17:58 Stephen Thompson? Wow.
17:58 Speaker 02 That's the greatest pitch of all time. It's like the greatest one-sentence pitch. The comic itself is like even better. The mermaid has this little axolotl that follows her around. It's very cute. She meets all these kind of crazy post-apocalyptic characters as she's doing her adventure. It's this really like beautiful book. It's the comics or the collection, if you get that, are like kind of a bigger format. So it's kind of like this widescreen comics. The story is mostly wordless, so you know, it's kind of told through action and gestures and expressions. And I think it'd be a great thing to read with like a kid who's into sci-fi. So yeah, it's called The Last Mermaid by Derek Kirk Kim, and it's great.
18:37 Stephen Thompson? Jordan, do you think that this comic book should be made into an animated movie that is then remade into a live-action movie?
18:44 Speaker 02 10 years later, yes.
18:47 Stephen Thompson? Thank you, Jordan Morris. Regina Barber, what's making you happy this week?
18:50 Speaker 05 Jordan, I love that. I'm gonna check it out. But what I'm gonna suggest today that's making me happy is the new season of The Amazing Race, which is the first time I've ever watched The Amazing Race all the way through.
19:01 Stephen Thompson? Oh my gosh, Regina!
19:03 Speaker 05 Yes, and I've heard it's a better season than the other one, so I'm really happy this is how I'm introduced.
19:08 Stephen Thompson? It's a strong season, there are better.
19:09 Speaker 05 Well, okay, you gotta suggest which other ones I should watch. But my daughter was really into it, and my partner, we all watched it as a family. And the whole time, we're just like, you know, picking our favorites. We're going, you know, to Asia soon on a trip, so we just really, really enjoyed it. I really loved The Amazing Race, almost to a point where my daughter was like, "You should apply, I'll make the video for you." So I would suggest on Paramount+, we watched it this season of The Amazing Race.
19:38 Stephen Thompson? Thank you, Regina Barber. I usually recommend- When tasked with speaking about what's making me happy and what is making me happy is this fantastic new artist, fantastic new album. The artist is named Anastasia, and that's A-N-N-A-H-Stasia. She's a Nigerian-American, LA folk jazz pop soul singer, probably best known right now for starring in Kendrick Lamar's Luther video, Luther featuring SZA. But what Kendrick Lamar should have done is sung with Anastasia because her voice is absolutely gorgeous. This song is called "Overflow."
20:33 Stephen Thompson? This record is just moving through a lot of different vibes. There's a blues rock vibe, there's a jazz vibe. At one point, there's a spoken word song that brings in Aja Monet. I love this record. She's got a gorgeous voice. I keep coming back to it. The album is called Tether. My favorite song on the album is called "Overflow," but honestly, they're all great. That's the great Anastasia, my favorite musical discovery of the week, and that is what is making me happy. If you want links for what we recommended, plus some more recommendations, sign up for our newsletter at npr.org/popculturenewsletter. That brings us to the end of our show. Jordan Morris, Regina Barber, thanks so much for being here.
21:13 Speaker 05 Thank you, Stephen.
21:14 Stephen Thompson? Yeah, thanks for having me. This was a blast. This episode was produced by Hafsa Fathema, Liz Metzger, and Mike Katzif, and edited by our showrunner Jessica Reedy. Hello, Cummin provides our theme music. Thanks for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. I'm Stephen Thompson, and we will see you all next week.
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