Beef

The Netflix Beef returns for season two with an all new cast. This time the beef involves two couples: Carey Mulligan and Oscar Isaac face off against Charles Melton and Cailee Spaeny. Just like in the first season, their feud reveals way bigger underlying issues for each of the parties involved. Everyone’s a mess and it’s a surreal journey to behold. Subscribe to Pop Culture Happy Hour Plus at plus.npr.org/happyhour https://plus.npr.org/happy See pcm.adswizz.com https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. NPR Privacy Policy https://www.npr.org/about-npr/179878450/privacy-policy

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This message comes from Capella University. That spark you feel? That's your drive for more. Capella University's FlexPath learning format lets you earn your degree at your pace without putting life on pause. Learn more at capella.edu.

• 0:19Aisha Harris?

  The first season of Beef was a huge hit for Netflix and won a bunch of Emmys. It starred Ali Wong and Steven Yeun and followed a road rage incident with devastating consequences. Now it's back for season two, and this time there's an all-new cast and an all-new beef. And it involves two couples. Oscar Isaac and Carey Mulligan face off against Charles Melton and Kaylee Spahney. And just like in the first season, their feud reveals way bigger underlying issues for each of the parties involved. To put it mildly, everyone's a mess, and it's a surreal journey to behold. I'm Aisha Harris, and today we're talking about Beef on Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR.

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• 1:21Speaker 00

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• 2:09Aisha Harris?

  Joining me today is one of the hosts of NPR's Code Switch podcast, Jean Demby. Welcome back, Jean.

• 2:14Speaker 03

  In my personal experience, the colors don't affect the quench.

• 2:19Speaker 03

  What's good, y'all?

• 2:20Aisha Harris?

  No, they don't. Great to have you here. Also with us is Walter Chow. He is a writer, critic, and film instructor at the University of Colorado. Welcome back to you too, Walter.

• 2:30Speaker 04

  Hey, thanks so much for having me.

• 2:31Aisha Harris?

  It's so great to have you both here. So much to talk about because so much happens this season. Which feels like compared to last season, it's like, whoa. But yeah, Beef Season 2 stars Oscar Isaac and Carey Mulligan as a married couple, Josh and Lindsay. He's the general manager of a Montecito country club, and she's an interior designer. Now, their relationship is hanging by a thread, and one evening they have this nasty drag-out fight at home that teeters on the edge of turning violent. Their spat is accidentally witnessed by Austin and Ashley, an engaged couple who are low-level staffers at the club. They're played by Charles Melton and Kaylee Spaney. Austin and Ashley capture the worst of the argument on video, and they have the intention of bringing it to the police at first.

• 3:16Aisha Harris?

  But then they see an opportunity to leverage the video for better pay and health benefits, and that's when the beef starts cooking, and cooking, and sizzling, and all that juicy stuff. Beef was created by Lee Sung Jin and is streaming on Netflix. And Jean, I'm gonna start with you. You know, how are we feeling about the beef this season?

• 3:36Speaker 03

  I really dug this season. It's like a very different tenor.

• 3:39Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 3:39Speaker 03

  Right? Like, the last season, the two main characters literally slam into each other, and they like hate each other, and it becomes this animating thing for the rest of the season. And in this season, there's like all these different sort of cross-beefs. Like, the couples are squaring off against other couples, but also squaring off against each other, sort of is like all these different sort of like layers and directionality in their beef. It feels like sillier than last season. Like, I feel like there are moments of like leaning into goofiness. Particularly Charles Melton.

• 4:08Speaker 05

  I'll take the red one.

• 4:09Speaker 06

  That's for my fiance. How about the yellow?

• 4:12Speaker 05

  Hmm, I'd rather not.

• 4:15Speaker 04

  Well, if I may say this, man, in my personal experience, the colors don't affect the quench.

• 4:20Speaker 03

  I've never seen this cat before, but I was like, oh, I'll watch anything he's in.

• 4:22Aisha Harris?

  Oh, have you not seen May/December?

• 4:24Speaker 03

  I did not see May/December. You're the second person to say that to me.

• 4:26Aisha Harris?

  Yes, yes, you, okay. Anyway, you have to see that movie, you know, Natalie Portman, Todd Haynes. Anyway, but yes.

• 4:32Speaker 03

  I will absolutely, I will absolutely check this out. But the beef seems like a little more muted, like even though it's happening all in different directions. But the stakes are so much higher than last season. Like, all the stakes seem like really, really big this season. And it's just like, and at first I thought this was gonna like turn into like a, you know, a Squid Game type of thing where it was like, oh, this is about like class anxiety and contempt, right? And actually, kinda isn't that, right? It ends up being sort of a bunch of things. I really dug the season. I thought it was exceptionally well cast. There were moments of like laugh-out-loud humor in this season, but also just like tonally is kinda odd, you know? Like, it's like kinda, it's doing a lot of different things. Anyway, but I dug it overall.

• 5:09Aisha Harris?

  Yeah, yeah, definitely kind of all over the place. But Walter, I wanna hear your initial impressions of Beef this season.

• 5:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, man, I kind of polarized maybe the opposite way. I totally agree there are laugh-out-loud moments. There's really, totally agree that the cast is great. I do fear that, that Mr. Melton perhaps is being typecast at this point. It's sort of like a dim, pretty boy kind of character. I, I hope better for him in the future, but he is good here.

• 5:35Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 5:35Speaker 04

  But he essentially plays the same role that he played in May/December. I've seen him do this before and do, seeing him do it for eight hours is tough for me a little bit. It kind of reminds me of the Asian character on, what was that show where she's a survivor of a cult?

• 5:50Aisha Harris?

  Oh, Kimmy Schmidt?

• 5:52Speaker 03

  Kimmy Schmidt?

• 5:53Speaker 04

  Yeah, and she has a boyfriend for a while in that who is also like this really beautiful Asian guy.

• 5:58Aisha Harris?

  Oh, that's right, yes.

• 5:59Speaker 04

  It's pretty dim, it's pretty dim. And, and I understand the cross-casting of like, let's dispel this really dangerous stereotype about Asians being smart. Believe me, as an Asian guy, I know a lot of really stupid Asian people. Let's dispel this stereotype. Let's do that. I get it. Let's cross-cast. At the same time, the show is really skirting on some stuff that's made me kind of uncomfortable. Like, if the bad guys are these Koreans, who are very organized and very cold and very whatever. It's like, I don't know, man. I don't know. You know, the first season was kind of groundbreaking for Asian Americans to have just a normal contractor guy getting in a road rage beef with a normal woman and they don't know martial arts and they're not mystical.

• 6:43Speaker 04

  You know, their dad's not a hundred thousand year old snake monsters. You know what I mean? There's nothing mystical about these Asians, but even during the middle of the last season, I felt like maybe they're running out of steam a little bit and they're starting to escalate to a place where it's like, it felt, started to feel a little desperate. I was glad that it was over after 10. This season in only eight episodes, it felt like to me a continued escalation where there's so much stuff getting thrown at the wall here. I feel like they really left some really kind of important stuff off of it that I wanted to know more about, to the point that I'm not even sure what the beef was exactly.

• 7:17Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 7:17Speaker 04

  Like, what's the real, what are we mad about at each other? You know, they bring up this idea that Gen Z workers are lazy and uninformed. They make a lot about how, you know, Ashley and she thinks that an insurance deductible means a refund.

• 7:30Speaker 06

  She said, you know, it's super high deductible, five thousand.

• 7:34Speaker 07

  Oh, wow. We can deduct five thousand dollars? What if it costs less? Did they give us a difference?

• 7:40Speaker 06

  It's kind of the opposite.

• 7:41Speaker 04

  And he thinks M I S C was a typo for mist instead of a shorthand for miscellaneous. It's like, the degree of their ignorance is so out of bounds, but I was left feeling like, eh, you actually did dishonor to some of the stuff that you did establish in the first season, which was, you know, it's self marred with some controversy. It's just like, you know, that lack of sensitivity to those sort of issues seems to be explored at full in the second season and I'm not sure on purpose. And I think maybe that's where I am. Interesting.

• 8:11Aisha Harris?

  Yeah. I mean, you mentioned the Korean sort of subplot, although I think it's eventually becomes plot, like it becomes a plot. And so that's involving the chairwoman of the country club that they all work at, who's played by Yoon Yae Jung. I think most American audiences will recognize she's the Oscar winner for Aminari. I think the grandmother in that movie. I think she's actually great in this role. Like she seems like she's having fun with this role. And I was so happy to see Soon Kang Ho playing her much younger husband, Dr. Kim. He's, of course, if you've seen some Bong Joon Ho movies like Parasite, The Host, Memories of Murder. He's a very recognizable face and he's always great to see.

• 8:52Aisha Harris?

  But I agree with you, Walter, that it does feel as though that subplot turned plot. It just becomes kind of unwieldy because there's just too many other things now. I mean, Jean, you did mention like it felt less like a class situation, but I did feel like it kind of turned into that with that Korean subplot. Because we learned after a while that like it's not just about this very like sexless unhappy marriage between Oscar Isaac and Carey Mulligan. It's also like they are in debt, they're drowning in debt, they are doing illegal things to try and like make their dreams come true and try to like put a patch over this leaking boat.

• 9:31Speaker 04

  It's a little embezzlement to keep a couple together, you know what I mean?

• 9:33Aisha Harris?

  I know. It kind of is in many ways like a Keeping Up with the Joneses type of season, right? It felt less fresh than the last season. It felt more like White Lotus to me. And that's not necessarily compliment, like have I seen every season of White Lotus so far? Yes. Do I find pleasure in it? The fact that I have? Maybe not. And that was kind of where I felt about this season.

• 9:58Speaker 04

  Yeah, I I care a lot less about really rich people being mad at really, really, really rich people. I feel less interested in the travails of Oscar Isaac and Carey Mulligan.

• 10:08Aisha Harris?

  But they're not even rich, though. To me, the more interesting relationship, it's not, it's still not the most original, but like the Oscar Isaac and Carey Mulligan characters, they have this proximity to wealth. You could argue it could be just as or like even more kind of difficult to manage emotionally because you've tasted what it can feel like to be in that world. And just the way that like Josh, the Oscar Isaac character, kind of has to maneuver his job where he's like kind of friends with some of the people who are clients there, but he also resents them because.

• 10:43Speaker 04

  He works for them.

• 10:44Aisha Harris?

  Yeah, he works for them. And also they're demanding. And it's that weird relationship that you often see with like employer, employee, or like your job depends on them liking you.

• 10:53Speaker 08

  We get to be friends with politicians and CEOs. We had dinner with Bono.

• 10:58Speaker 09

  You think, you think that they're your friends, but they're not. Your staff. You're an employee. They pay you to be around.

• 11:05Aisha Harris?

  Well, one of us has to get paid. It's a weird dynamic and I thought that was an interesting thing to see. But I've also seen that before.

• 11:14Speaker 04

  Yeah, there's that really interesting scene where Oscar Isaac is essentially told by the chairwoman that his butt is hers now because she's discovered, you know, the shady stuff or whatever. And makes him bow in front of the webcam, like all the way down.

• 11:28Aisha Harris?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 11:29Speaker 04

  In Korea, to show respect, you bow, bow, down, lower, lower, lower.

• 11:33Speaker 10

  You bow, Josh, to show respect.

• 11:37Speaker 11

  Yes, I, I respect you very much.

• 11:42Speaker 10

  Lower the bow, bigger the respect.

• 11:46Speaker 11

  Ah, got it. Yes.

• 11:50Speaker 10

  Lower.

• 11:52Speaker 04

  Oh, man, that's really triggering. I mean, that was one of my, my corporal punishments as a kid. But, but even as I'm looking at that, I'm thinking about, you know, not only have I seen it before, to your point, Aisha, but the idea that the two representations of Asian women in the, in the show are as the sort of really cold, icy dragon lady, the, the chairwoman. And then this really kind of Sexy Anjanu. Sexy Anjanu, played by the amazing John Soo Young, you know, very intelligent, but also very flexible. And I, I just feel like

• 12:19Aisha Harris?

  Yoonice.

• 12:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, Yoonice. Exactly. And I feel like, you know, why are these the two representations of Asian women? When in the first show you have Ali Wong, who is amazing. She's just an ordinary person with ordinary beefs, right? And, but not, you know, Yoonice, who is the translator for, you know, the most powerful woman in the world, according to everybody, right? She, she influences political elections. She does all, you know, we, we hear it, we see it. To the point that I just feel like, why is this even a thing? And, you know, and the Carey Mulligan character also is such a Difficult character to like, especially after an event that happens pretty early on for me. There are certain things that people do in shows or movies that I it takes a lot for them to come back from.

• 13:03Speaker 03

  Beyond the pale, like, okay, now I can't access this.

• 13:05Speaker 04

  Exactly. I just don't know that there's forgiveness for this in my heart, you know? And so do I need to forgive all the characters? Do I need to like? Of course not. Of course not. I like ambiguous films. I like Andy here. I like all this stuff. But really, the entire character of Austin, I don't entirely understand his motivations. I didn't understand why he's doing whatever. I thought he was going to be the sweet kid who has regrets. But then he takes full advantage of, you know, the situation that he's in. But then he doesn't and he wants to do the right thing. But then he doesn't. He wants to. I guess I don't need characters to be black and white, but I do need characters to not be so like divided, right? So like, you know, he's like.

• 13:40Aisha Harris?

  Definitely a ton of whiplash.

• 13:41Speaker 04

  Yes. Yeah. He reminds me of Two Face in the Batman comics, right? It's like, you know, I would not have been surprised if he pulled out like a scarred quarter at some point and just started flipping it. To decide what he was going to be for that episode.

• 13:54Speaker 03

  He very much seemed like he was the sort of voice of reason when Ashley was like sort of cooking up these like, you know, cockamamie schemes. You know, he seemed to be when he had this like, obviously like very intense flirtation with Eunice. He felt really guilty about it. Ashley sort of suggested him that he could pretend to be a physical therapist. A licensed physical therapist, which he was not. And at first he was like, this is nuts. I can't pretend.

• 14:15Aisha Harris?

  This is illegal.

• 14:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. I'm gonna get in trouble, right? And then very quickly, he sort of turns, which I can get like, he's like, oh, he's like this nice life he can have with her, like, you know? But it felt like, to your point, like he kept being the naive voice of reason. And also, you know, he wasn't working when she was like grounded, you know? But like, I do think he was like, there are a bunch of his line readings that suggest that he's like more savvy. There's a bunch of stuff that suggests that he's not a complete rube. You know what I'm saying?

• 14:41Aisha Harris?

  No, I think that his character holds a little bit more emotional intelligence than he does like practical.

• 14:47Speaker 03

  Actual practical.

• 14:48Aisha Harris?

  Practical, yeah.

• 14:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, for sure.

• 14:50Aisha Harris?

  To me, he was like the most emotionally intelligent person on this show. And he made some mistakes, but he's also supposed to be, you know, pretty young. And some of that you could chalk up to inexperience or just like not being out in the world in a way.

• 15:04Speaker 03

  The only, I don't even know that where this fits in the conversation. I just, I just thought it was like a funny sort of like, oh, these kids don't know anything. When she's like, when they let the couple know that they had this video of them and this this horrible sort of scene. They're in the car driving away and she's like.

• 15:18Speaker 12

  Forty-five K, ten days paid vacation. Health insurance. We're set. We are set for life.

• 15:26Speaker 06

  For sure.

• 15:26Speaker 03

  We're living the dream.

• 15:29Speaker 03

  And he's like, I feel like we could have got a little bit more from that.

• 15:32Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 15:33Speaker 03

  From them.

• 15:34Speaker 06

  I just wonder if maybe we could have gotten something from me, too. You know? I'm just now realizing that we didn't even think about that.

• 15:44Speaker 12

  Do you want to go back?

• 15:45Speaker 06

  No, it's too late now.

• 15:47Speaker 03

  I was like, oh, man. I was just like, I just remember when I got my first job, I think there were times a million years ago, and it was basically that. And I was like, oh, you can't tell me nothing. You know what I mean?

• 15:55Aisha Harris?

  No, that was, that was incredibly realistic.

• 15:58Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 15:59Aisha Harris?

  And just shows how, especially younger people, are just encouraged to just like, take the first thing you get. And I mean, yes, is blackmail not a good look? Sure. But also, if we're gonna do it, do it right. And I, and I wanted more for them.

• 16:18Speaker 04

  I don't know that you can show like introspection that easily at that point. And, you know, I think the same goes with like this other character, Whoosh, who's played by a, you know, a big star.

• 16:28Aisha Harris?

  He's a rapper, right?

• 16:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 16:30Aisha Harris?

  He's played by a rapper named BM. And Whoosh is like, we come to find out he has like a connection with Chairwoman Park.

• 16:38Speaker 04

  Yeah, and, and when you talk about F-Boys, that's really just what he's there for, to take off his shirt and provide whatever. And I feel like this is very broad. This is very broad, and you're sticking these people into these categories. And ultimately, it's not that interesting. You've got really serious actors, you know? My favorite part of it maybe is the part where it involves psychedelics. And, you know, Oscar Isaac is phenomenal.

• 17:02Speaker 06

  That Achilles heel is just gonna give out. And you're gonna fall. And you're gonna grasp at everyone around you. But it's too late.

• 17:15Speaker 06

  You're going down.

• 17:16Speaker 04

  It's phenomenal. And I feel like we've missed something here to either go all the way in or to back out and make it a different kind of drama. But what they try to do in the middle is sort of like, you know, when the Brady Bunch goes on vacation and they find the haunted thing. It feels like this to me, like a late sitcom where I'm out of ideas. Hey, somebody get on the phone to Phineas. Is he available? Just make a cameo real quick.

• 17:38Aisha Harris?

  Yeah, there's a lot of cameos in this this season.

• 17:41Speaker 03

  Those are the things, the moments I was like most taken out of the sort of the current of the show was when random celebrities popped up. Like, at first I was like, wait, I was like, is that Baron Davis? Like, why aren't there former Golden State Warrior here? Like, that's so random. And I was like, and then the scene in which this happens is like a high stakes poker game. And they wanted to sort of signal to us, the audience, that this is, these are a bunch of like, high rollers, including a bunch of celebrities and like very well known athletes.

• 18:05Aisha Harris?

  It's giving like that early scene in Ocean's Eleven where it's like Topher Grace and like a bunch of other people.

• 18:12Speaker 03

  A thousand percent.

• 18:13Speaker 04

  That scene from Sunset Boulevard is where the card game with all the old silencer.

• 18:16Aisha Harris?

  Yes, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 18:18Speaker 03

  This scene would have worked fine without like the wooden line deliveries from, you know, from Baron Davis and Michael Phelps. And later, Suni Lee, like, why is it, you know, it's like, it's like, it felt very like, you know, in the sitcoms where somebody would like randomly come in and like, woo.

• 18:30Aisha Harris?

  Yeah, yeah. When Biggie shows up in Martin.

• 18:32Speaker 03

  Biggie on Martin, exactly. Biggie on Martin. Baby, baby. And it's like, they didn't have Suni Lee for no reason whatsoever do a back bend, like a flip over. It's like, wait, what is happening right now?

• 18:43Aisha Harris?

  Got to make sure everyone knows who she is, just in case they don't realize she's in an Olympic.

• 18:50Speaker 03

  At one point, he says, I loved you at the Paris Olympics. I'm like, oh, that was right on the nose. Oh, my God.

• 18:55Speaker 06

  It's an honor. You were incredible at the Paris Olympics.

• 18:59Speaker 13

  Thank you. So Josh says that you'll work with my team to get me right for LA.

• 19:02Speaker 04

  Well, and also beyond that, though, there's this implication that that he's able to, this master of treachery, Austin, is able to fool a professional athlete, nod goofily, and this world class professional athlete is saying, yeah, yeah, all right, that's legit.

• 19:19Speaker 03

  That's, yeah, yeah.

• 19:20Aisha Harris?

  I mean, you'd be surprised, you'd be surprised how someone being as attractive as Charles Mountain can, how much they can get away with. Like, even with a world class athlete. Like, I don't know, you know? I mean, I think that's the silliness, right? I mean, for me, where I liked the show the most and where I wish it had kind of focused more on overall is the relationships.

• 19:43Aisha Harris?

  And when it was really honing in on the fact that these two couples, they start off seemingly to be very different, you know, different generations. One is very doe eyed and like the younger couple is like, they don't know anything, you know, they're like, oh, we're in love. And it's like, girl, you've known this guy how long? And then the older couple who's jaded and whatnot. And the fact that they both are trying to convince themselves, like even after Josh and Lindsay, you know, the Carey Mulligan and Oscar Isaac character have their big, big spat at the beginning, right after they're kind of trying to convince themselves, oh, this is normal. People fight. That to me is interesting. It's like the delusions that we tell ourselves in relationships and how that might go head to head with both

• 20:27Aisha Harris?

  like this couple's needs and wants and this couple's needs and wants and like how that beef could really sort of like cause that tension. And you see it here and there. I think for me, the strongest episode is the one where they're in the hospital, the ER waiting room. And also, that's when the show starts to get really kind of tiptoe into the surrealist territory where weird things are happening and they don't really explain it. That was when I felt like the Austin and Ashley character were really locked in in terms of like how their relationship was falling apart and how they were both kind of clinging to this idea of what it could be. But then you also have like this example of how Josh, the Oscar Isaac character is able to like continue that beef that is happening in a way that is absolutely like devastating and awful, more awful maybe

• 21:12Aisha Harris?

  than anything that happened in season one. I don't know. It depends on how you feel about it. But like, the way he's able to wield his power and his proximity to money to harm them is just really devastating. And I kind of wanted more of that.

• 21:26Speaker 14

  Delete the videos or I'm gonna walk away right now.

• 21:29Speaker 07

  Are you seriously toying with my health right now?

• 21:30Speaker 14

  You're toying with your health right now.

• 21:32Speaker 07

  I don't need your [bleep] help, you [bleep].

• 21:34Aisha Harris?

  Boomer.

• 21:35Speaker 03

  And maybe that's why that episode was so, I thought, so effective to me because there was enough sort of more ambiguity around both of those characters in a way that is like maybe not true to your points for the rest of the scene.

• 21:46Speaker 04

  Such a good episode. Yeah, totally. To both your points. You know, I love the ambiguity of that. I love the fraughtness of it. And I also love how smart that episode is. And the show occasionally is really smart about identifying exactly what's wrong with us right now and all the things that we're actually worried about. It does have its finger on the pulse sometimes. But it seems like the ultimate moral of this is like, go along to get along is the ultimate moral of this thing. And I think that maybe misreaches the temperature of the room a little bit. Just like, I don't, I think people are filling the streets right now, not to go along with billionaires. I think there is a problem now that we're recognizing that we put these people in positions of power who don't deserve it. And yet, it seems like the show is kind of nihilistic in that sense, where it says,

• 22:29Speaker 04

  you know, hey, ultimately, money will corrupt you. You know, you become what you hate the most, and then you're satisfied, you want to keep it. And da, da, da.

• 22:36Aisha Harris?

  Which is a tale as old as time.

• 22:37Speaker 04

  Tale as old as time.

• 22:38Aisha Harris?

  We know this.

• 22:39Speaker 04

  Full circle. What did I learn from this? People on the margins are desperate.

• 22:44Aisha Harris?

  Noted.

• 22:45Speaker 04

  Got it.

• 22:45Aisha Harris?

  Noted.

• 22:45Speaker 04

  Got it. Got it. Thank you. Yeah, I got this.

• 22:48Aisha Harris?

  Well, it sounds like we all had, you know, varying reactions to the show. The season two is not quite as juicy as season one was, but we enjoyed it. We had a good time. Definitely recommend checking it out.

• 23:01Speaker 04

  Well, look, I was uncomfortable by it, but I couldn't stop watching.

• 23:03Aisha Harris?

  Yeah.

• 23:03Speaker 04

  So he pulls you in, and you kind of want to find out what happens.

• 23:06Aisha Harris?

  That brings us to the end of our show. Jean Demby, Walter Chow, thanks so much for being here. This was very fun.

• 23:12Speaker 03

  Appreciate you, Isaac.

• 23:13Speaker 04

  All right. Thanks for having me.

• 23:15Aisha Harris?

  And just a reminder, signing up for Pop Culture Happy Hour Plus is a perfect way to support our show and public radio. And you get to listen to all of our episodes sponsor free. So go find out more at plus.npr.org/happyhour or visit the link in our show notes. This episode was produced by Liz Metzger, Hafsa Fathima, and Mike Katsif, and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy. Hello, Cummin provides our theme music. Thanks for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. I'm Aisha Harris. We'll see you all next time.

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