#978 Dylan LeClair On Bitcoin’s Illiquid Supply Continues To Hit All-Time Highs

Dylan LeClair is the Senior Market Analyst at UTXO Management, a digital asset fund investing in the analog to digital transformation of money and the emergent financial system. In this conversation, we discuss bitcoin, on-chain metrics, market structure, and what to expect from the tough economic climate. Dylan joins us every Tuesday on "The Best Business Show." To see the video with the corresponding charts that Dylan references throughout the interview, go to "The Best Business Show: LIVE" YouTube Channel ======================= Brave Wallet is the first secure crypto wallet built natively in a web3 crypto browser. No extension required. Store, manage, and grow your portfolio, get NFT & multi-chain support, and more. Download the Brave privacy browser at brave.com/Pomp, and click the wallet icon to get started. ======================= The Pomp Podcast is powered by BetOnline.ag, the world's largest sports betting, casino, poker and horse racing website that accepts cryptocurrency for wagering. BetOnline.ag gives you the ability to use Bitcoin and more than a dozen altcoins to make deposits and withdraw your winnings. There are no crypto transaction fees, and processing is instantaneous and secure. Visit https://promotions.betonline.ag/pomp and use PROMO CODE: POMP100 to receive a 100% matching bonus on any crypto deposit. BetOnline.ag is available in nearly every country around the world, making it the top global gaming destination for crypto users. =======================

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Anthony Pompliano?

  What's up everyone, this is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, simply the best podcast out there. Now let's kick this thing off. Dylan Leclerc is the Senior Market Analyst at UTXO Management. He also writes a newsletter with Bitcoin Magazine. In this conversation, we talk about Bitcoin, on-chain metrics, we talk about Bitcoin's price, the market structure, and what to expect in the coming weeks. I really enjoyed this conversation with Dylan, and I hope you do as well. Before we get into this episode, though, I want to quickly talk about our sponsors. This episode is brought to you by FTX US. FTX.us is the safe, regulated way to buy and sell Bitcoin and other digital assets. You can trade crypto with up to 85% lower fees than

• 0:45Anthony Pompliano?

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• 1:27Anthony Pompliano?

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• 2:10Anthony Pompliano?

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• 2:54Anthony Pompliano?

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• 3:05Speaker 01

  Anthony Pompliano runs POMP Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of POMP Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by POMP or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

• 3:28Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, we've got Dylan Leclerc, Bitcoin Magazine, joining us. Dylan, how are you?

• 3:34Speaker 02

  How are you doing?

• 3:35Anthony Pompliano?

  I'm doing fantastic. I am, I'm super excited to talk to you. We got a crazy macro environment, Bitcoin market going up, down, sideways, sometimes maybe it feels like it's going backwards. Let's start, we've got some charts and then we can kind of just talk, but we've got the Bitcoin reserve risk, and this looks like it has just dropped off a cliff since the beginning of 2021 and is now pretty much in this, in this green area. What is this measure and kind of what does this tell you for Bitcoin reserve risk?

• 4:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I mean, first off, I just want to say for anyone that missed it, your recent segment with Brent Johnson was fantastic. He's one of the best macro minds out there and it's just kind of dollar milkshake theory and just thesis and understanding of how the global economy works. Is almost second to none. So check that out if you missed that just right before me. In terms of Bitcoin, in terms of reserve, you know, a lot of fun recently with the macro environment. Just pulled this up, reserve risk is kind of one of the more advanced on-chain indicators. And it takes a lot of different variables that we have with, you know, this public blockchain data. But essentially what it is, is it just takes price and overlays it with hodl bank. And essentially what hodl bank is, is just the accumulate, the cumulative opportunity cost of hodlers.

• 4:51Speaker 02

  So every time coins are hodled and don't move, you can kind of think of that as like a pent up opportunity cost. And so when you have price, the incentive to sell up against what is the hodl bank or the, you know, the accumulative opportunity cost of all the hodlers. You get this really interesting oscillator that maps out the Bitcoin cycles quite well. So now what do we see is we're kind of in this, this green zone. For those that can't see, it's obviously a deep value zone. And it's just interesting to see kind of, you know, the historical cycles mapped out with, with so much data just kind of packed into one metric.

• 5:24Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. And so when you then start to think about this, this type of metric, is it something that you can evaluate just on its own? Or do you normally look at a lot of these metrics and say, hey, deep value is measured across metrics? And it's really important to kind of see, you know, that the almost confirmation across so many metrics? Or is it possible just to look, hey, look, I'm looking at this one thing and, and it's telling me something?

• 5:45Speaker 02

  Yeah. So I mean, I really love to take a multifaceted approach with the analysis, which is why sometimes I come up here and only show on-chain data. Sometimes you talk about bond yields and currencies and the dollar index like, like Brent Johnson likes to talk about. But with on-chain indicators, you can almost kind of compact all of the different variables into one, right? You can see, well, hodlers are spending, hodlers are hodling. Why? Well, it could be partly the macro environment. It could be partly because of a derivative margin call. It could be all these sorts of things. But net, net, right? We can see, you know, there's 19 million Bitcoins out there and these are moving, these aren't. And when a lot of Bitcoin are being hodled, which we're going to kind of cover a little bit later in the show. And, you know, price is, is really far down historically. And obviously past performance is, is not indicative of future results.

• 6:30Speaker 02

  But historically, it's been a fantastic time to allocate to Bitcoin with size. And so we're in one of those moments. And again, you know, nobody wants to buy blood. And everybody talks about wanting to buy blood until it actually comes in, you know, 55% from the highs, whatever it may be. It looks like one of those times.

• 6:45Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. When we start to look at things like the percent supply of Bitcoin that's in profit, you've got the seven day moving average here, again, falling off a cliff since the start of 2022. What is this telling you?

• 6:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I mean, obviously, we have, you have a lot of people saying unprecedented macro environment. We're already in a S and P 500 bear market, only have two rate hikes. We're spiraling towards a big recession. How will Bitcoin do? The reality is that Bitcoin and its own volatile monetization phase, it's kind of had these huge boom and busts beforehand. So really, even though it's multiple orders of magnitude larger this cycle, in the realm of Bitcoin itself, it's nothing out of the ordinary, right? If you want to look back into the early, early days, there was really only one global exchange, Mt. Gox, and it collapsed, and the price of Bitcoin collapsed with it. And what happened? It recovered just fine, right? And, you know, a huge percent of the circulating supply was underwater from a dollar cost basis standpoint. But what happened?

• 7:44Speaker 02

  It recovered, weak hands transferred to strong, and, you know, the resiliency of the Bitcoin network just continued to chug on block by block. So I love looking at this data because we can kind of see like, hey, you know, 50%, 60% of the supply is underwater, right? And oftentimes, when you get to these levels, you see the top buyers capitulate further, right? Which further drives down the price. So we're kind of, you know, we're seeing a huge transfer of weak to strong hands, and we can see that with the data with just so many people underwater.

• 8:13Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, it is incredible to see something that is a public narrative expressed in the data. I think that's one of the beauties of Bitcoin. We have the Bitcoin net realized profit loss. Again, I think just showing exactly what you're talking about here with more and more people being in this kind of loss position. What is this telling you if anything different?

• 8:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I forgot to label it, but it's a 30 day moving average here, so it smooths it out a little bit. And also, you have on one side a linear scale of the net realized profit and loss and a logarithmic scale. And I like to use the log scale of the Bitcoin price just to kind of, you know, to map it out. And it's a little easier to kind of see the cycle by cycle moves. But essentially, this net realized profit Loss, what we can see is when a coin is acquired and obviously we can see when that coin was moved and the difference in those prices. And so when, when the price is going parabolic, you see a ton of realized profit. I acquire a coin for a thousand dollars, I move it at ten thousand dollars, I have a nine thousand dollar realized profit. Maybe I didn't actually sell the coin, uh, but just in terms of on-chain analytics, we like to call that a realized profit.

• 9:15Speaker 02

  And so what we're seeing over the past month is essentially the biggest capitulation or the biggest, uh, series of realized losses uh, in, in absolute terms we've ever seen. Um, so, you know, nothing short of historic here and obviously, I mean, it makes sense, given that Bitcoin, you know, previously a trillion dollar asset was bigger than it's ever been, uh, but just goes to show you just the size of this move, the magnitude of it and just how much the market's absorbing at these prices.

• 9:40Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, it's ju- I mean, just literally staggering when you see this. Um, another statistic that, uh, I spend a lot of time looking at, and I'm actually surprised we're not hearing more people talk about it right now, uh, is the percent of the circulating supply that has not moved in the last 12 months. Uh, we crossed over 12 million Bitcoin, uh, that hasn't moved in the last 12 months. And this only continues to go up and to the right, uh, as a number. What, what do you make of this, given kind of all of the other, uh, volatility in the market that still such a high percentage hasn't moved?

• 10:10Speaker 02

  Yeah. So, I mean, in terms of the on-chain analytic, the, the hodler, uh, metrics, this is probably one of the most simple, which is honestly why I like it the best, or not the best, but it's one of my favorites. Uh, it's just so easy to kind of digest. Um, and so this is showing in absolute terms, the amount of Bitcoin that haven't moved in a year. That 12 million, I think 470,000 Bitcoin, around 66% of the circulating supply. Uh, this just goes to show you, right? Bitcoin's 55% off the highs, unprecedented macro environment. People are worrying about a recession and what's happening. The Bitcoin hodlers, I mean, you can hear it, you can see it on Twitter. You can see the sentiment of the, the hodlers that are just relentless and they're, have unwavering conviction. Uh, I'd like to think of maybe us too in that cohort, um, right? They're not moving their coins and then in fact they're buying more.

• 10:55Speaker 02

  And so if you think about, just strip all of the data, everything else, all the narratives away, you have an absolutely scarce asset. On the other side of it, you have- More and more going into the hands of people that are unwavering in their conviction and not going to sell under the market. In the end, only one thing happens. And so we're kind of living through this and obviously the market's consolidating. But this is why Bitcoin always resolves to the upside following these periods.

• 11:21Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, it's incredible. You've got a new metric in here, the minor revenue per terahash. Explain to folks who aren't familiar with this, what does metric is showing and then kind of how you read its relationship to price, which looks pretty inverse.

• 11:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I was actually listening to your previous segment with Brent Johnson and he was talking about, you know, unfortunately, the odds of hyperinflation, right, are higher than most would like to say. Just given the unprecedented amount of dollar-denominated debt, all these emerging market currencies and economies. And essentially, kind of, there's this binary endgame of fiat currencies around the world. And the dollar is probably the strongest of those dirty shirts in the sense of it's either deflationary collapse or just based on pure political incentives and just the math of a debt-based monetary system, perpetual monetary expansion, right? So inflation or deflation, and in either one, it ends in tears. And so if we think about Bitcoin as this monetary asset, right?

• 12:21Speaker 02

  Well, let's think about it also. I mean, it's a currency, but it's also somewhat of a digital commodity, right? So this minor revenue per terahash, you could think of this as almost, it's the inverse production cost, right? So a terahash is essentially, if you want to think of hash rate, it's just a unit of computational power. That's a pretty basic way of saying it, but a terahash, you know, the new S19 ASIC is 100 terahash per day. Okay, so if we think about this as just in revenue terms, right? A marginal unit of hash rate is buying you less and less and less, you know, dollar value of Bitcoin. And this chart's even more dramatic if we just plot it in pure Satoshi terms, right? So what's happening here? It's becoming harder and harder and harder to produce a marginal unit of Bitcoin.

• 13:06Speaker 02

  If we think of this as a commodity, it's a commodity whose production cost is literally programmatically skyrocketing. And so this is in log terms. The reason why I labeled it five times is just to highlight just how dramatic of a chart this is. And I have a second chart that shows further. The 53,000 in 2011, 13,848, $3. Now it's at 12 cents per ter- of miner revenue per terahash per day, right? So, so an S19 ASIC with 100 terahash will get you about $12 of Bitcoin a day. And, and the reason that this is so significant is because it's literally programmed into, into the monetary policy with the difficulty adjustment and inelastic supply issuance. It's going to be harder and harder and harder to mine a marginal

• 13:50Speaker 02

  unit or say a Satoshi forever. And so we have this digital synthetic commodity that's absolutely scarce, that has a programmatic production cost. And it's this, there's still so much information asymmetry with this fact. It's a fact. And we can see it with the data, but it's still very misunderstood. And so this is why I, I remain steadfast in my, in my conviction with Bitcoin, because I understand, I think we understand the reality of the situation, but it's still, you know, very misunderstood in the investor community.

• 14:21Anthony Pompliano?

  When you start to think about the miners, they seem to be, outside of maybe a GBTC, a BITW, you know, kind of these like indirect exposures, they're really the majority of the way people in the public markets are getting exposure to Bitcoin. Obviously, you can buy micro strategy, maybe even if you really, really go indirect, you can get like a Square or a Tesla that's got a little bit on their balance sheet. But the miners themselves, they had an epic run. And we've seen their prices crash pretty significantly. We've also seen Coinbase's stock come down to about two times revenue. How do you look at these publicly traded stocks in relationship to Bitcoin's price? Like, is there something

• 15:04Anthony Pompliano?

  that we can pull out of some sort of comparison or analysis there?

• 15:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. So I think the first thing I would say is you, whenever you're talking about a Bitcoin miner, or even a Coinbase for that matter, I would always evaluate the price, but more so the market cap in Bitcoin terms. That's, you know, if you're investing in Marathon or Riot or not, you know, no one even in particular. Just mining companies or a Coinbase. Look at the market cap in Bitcoin terms. I was I was saying in April of 2021, hey, think what you want about Coinbase. I don't think it's worth 2.5 million Bitcoin. If you really believe in Bitcoin and you believe in the crypto economy, it's it's probably not worth that much. So you could think of that as kind of the Bitcoin trading pair. If you if you're kind of an avid listener of the Best Business Show, a few months back, we talked about Bitcoin miners. We had a whole segment on it and we looked at all these market caps and all of the price charts in Bitcoin terms.

• 15:53Speaker 02

  And since then, really, in 2022, all these miners are down, you know, 50, 60%, 70% from the 2021 all time highs in Bitcoin terms. And why? Well, partly it's because of the hash price. That miner revenue per tera hash is going way down. So their margins, even though they're they're quite large, their margins are getting cut. But really, I think a lot of these miners, maybe they have lower to go, but in Bitcoin terms, you know, some of these stronger miners are looking quite quite attractive, right? Their balance sheets hold a significant amount of Bitcoin depending on the miner. And also just their net income, you know, the P E ratio in BTC terms is about, you know, two or three, right?

• 16:34Speaker 02

  So there's obviously operational risk. There's obviously a risk of a rising hash rate and a falling price, which further diminishes these miners' margins. But really, you know, it's starting to look like some of these are pretty good buy. So nothing obviously is perfectly replaceable for Bitcoin itself, you know, in cold storage, they can self custody. But if you're looking at the public markets, some of these share prices are really, really beaten up. Not even not even just in dollar terms, but in Bitcoin terms, which is what you want to measure against.

• 17:01Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. The the other thing that I I find very fascinating right now is Ray Dalio was on CNBC this morning and he was talking about cash is trash, as he's been saying. He still has gold, but he says, hey, look, I do have some Bitcoin. I think that it's interesting. Brent Johnson as well saying, hey, look, you know, I have gold. That's what I recommend to my clients, but we do have a couple of clients that have started to buy Bitcoin. How much weight do you put on this idea that like people will have gold and Bitcoin? And it'll be two assets in their portfolio? Versus maybe more of a binary world that we hear of in the Bitcoin community. So it's drop gold, buy Bitcoin, or it's only Bitcoin. There will be no gold that people hold.

• 17:43Anthony Pompliano?

  How do you think through those two assets and their roles in people's portfolio?

• 17:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think, you know, there's obviously a younger class of investors, myself included, that probably would be allocating in size relatively to gold, right? That isn't buying it. There's obviously the class of investors that own gold, the older investor class, that said, okay, hey, maybe I should hedge my bets here. I should own a little bit of Bitcoin as kind of, you know, hedge against the system or just my bias, my sound money bias. But I think really it's not mutually exclusive, maybe in the end game. But Bitcoin is what 600 billion, 700 billion dollars? I should probably know that reading off the top of my head. But gold's around a $12 trillion, $11 trillion market cap. The fixed income market, even though its bonds have gotten absolutely killed recently

• 18:33Speaker 02

  with real yields as measured with, you know, year-over-year CPI, still deeply negative. The fixed income market's around 100 trillion. You know, some people think it's a lot more. So there's such a huge pool of assets out there. And Bitcoin's still so, so small. And just the realities of this fiat system, they're going to have to reinflate, reinflate the kind of everything bubble once again. And so, you know, Bitcoin obviously is a monetary predecessor to gold. But I don't think it's mutually exclusive. And I think both will probably do quite well this decade.

• 19:05Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. And I guess another piece of it is like equities. How do you think about equities in general? It's not just Bitcoin related or crypto related equities. But what's your expectation for those as we kind of continue in this, you know, macroeconomic environment?

• 19:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, so here's the really interesting thing. And I've been doing some thinking on this is, you know, a lot of people, myself included, have been narrating Bitcoins really almost, you know, one-to-one correlation with the NASDAQ over 2022. But here's the interesting thing is a lot of people say, yeah, well, Bitcoin is just another risk asset and it's basically just an equity derivative. And I think of it the opposite in the sense that Bitcoin's 100% monetary, 100% Monetary premium, it's just money. There's no cash flow, there's no price to earnings ratio. It's just money, right? And so obviously, there's a little bit of speculative aspect to it. Uh, and there's ebbs and flows and volatility. But in, you know, if we think about the last decade, or really even just the last two years, equities themselves, partially because there's no yield

• 20:02Speaker 02

  in fixed income markets, and there's, there's no yield in savings, savings accounts. And inflation has eroded people's purchasing power for the last decade and in the last two years especially. Equities themselves, especially from this, you know, kind of younger class of investors, were monetized, right? You saw, you see central banks, you see the Swiss Central Bank buying tech, US tech stocks. Why? It's essentially, you know, these equities are monetized in the sense that they're going out the risk curve. They need a money like liquid alternative and fixed income doesn't do it for them anymore. And so I think of it almost as not Bitcoin being treated like an equity, but equity is being treated like money. And so the, in that sense, the correlation makes a whole lot of sense. Uh, and as just, you know, the, the kind of investable

• 20:43Speaker 02

  assets went from, uh, fixed income becoming monetized back, you know, forty, fifty years ago. And now, uh, in this kind of monetary end game, equities themselves being like a money, a money like substitute.

• 20:55Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. Uh, another piece that, uh, seems to play into this is bonds. And obviously, we know a lot of pension funds, a lot of endowments, the fixed income, uh, makes up, you know, in some cases, majority of their portfolios. And obviously, ten year, thirty year, uh, treasuries are getting absolutely smoked right now. Um, we, we've heard a number of people tell us, uh, kind of, uh, taking that duration and shortening it over the last couple of months, obviously, has done, uh, pretty well by them in comparison. But what's going on in the bond market? Like, are, are we in an environment now where people are just like, screw it, let's just drop bonds and, and go somewhere else? Or, uh, some other thought process?

• 21:31Speaker 02

  Yeah. So, uh, I mean, bonds relatively compared to what they were, you know, the last couple of years are more attractive. Uh, but even still, the ten year treasury is around, I think, two point seven percent nominal yield. Um, and so, uh, I think the real, the forwarding inflation expectations for five years or ten years out, uh, is actually above that around, around three percent, uh, top of head. And I, and I actually think that's Quite optimistic to think that inflation will be that low compounded annually just with what we're seeing in supply chains and potential deglobalization. So I still believe that based on where we are, just from the global economy, but also from the US's perspective with over 100% federal debt to GDP, real yields have to remain deeply negative, or at least negative,

• 22:14Speaker 02

  for a sustained period of time to kind of erode this real debt burden. So personally, I'm not going to be investing in fixed income, especially kind of on the long end. Maybe you can kind of trade these long bonds, and if you think yields are going to go lower. But I think, you know, anybody that's tried to do that over the last two years has been picking pennies up in front of a steamroller. Maybe the shorter end of the curve, where, you know, the treasury notes, where you can just kind of get a 2% yield on your cash, and there isn't that duration aspect to it. I know we're kind of getting more in the weeds of the fixed income markets nowadays, but I really think, you know, if you're looking at bonds as an investable asset class, the biggest move here has been about duration, right? It's been yields have risen, so the long dated bonds,

• 22:56Speaker 02

  the value has fallen. And I think now, if you especially look at the corporate world, say, corporate bonds, they've been crushed because of the duration aspect. But I think now is where you start to see, especially if this recession, this recessionary environment comes true, we're going to see that credit risk starting to be priced in quite significantly. And I think that's where, you know, potentially more pain can come from.

• 23:19Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. And I guess my last question for you is when you start to think about Bitcoin's performance, you know, there's a lot of folks who say, hey, the Federal Reserve is going to continue doing what they're going to do. But we've seen Bitcoin draw down. It's had a high correlation to the NASDAQ. In some cases, I think I saw somebody tweeting the three-day correlation to the NASDAQ hit an all-time high. At some point, do we get a decoupling, regardless of what the Fed does? Or is your expectation that as long as the Fed is tightening and pulling liquidity out of the market, we'll continue to have high degree of correlation between Bitcoin and NASDAQ, or other types of, you know, risk or growth assets?

• 23:56Speaker 02

  I think we do get a decoupling, and, you know, it's a fool's errand to say, you know, it's going to be tomorrow, or next week, or next month. But just the reality of the supply-side dynamics, the reality of the Bitcoin derivatives market, and also, I don't spend as much of my time in like, kind of, the crypto land. But if you look at any of the altcoins against Bitcoin, since the top, they're getting murdered, right? So especially post-UST Luna collapse, I think you've seen A whole lot of funds say, okay, hold up. Maybe, uh, you know, this investable asset class that I thought I was holding isn't as investable. And I need to, you know, I need to reach for a flight to safety. And, and, you know, those guys aren't going to go buy bonds. They're not going to go buy, uh, equity indices funds. They're, they're going to go buy Bitcoin.

• 24:39Speaker 02

  Uh, and really, I think a lot of those guys in the crypto world were really short Bitcoin as, as an asset itself. And so I think we're going to see a bleed out in all coins, a flood to Bitcoin. I think, you know, stable coins will continue to increase, but really the decoupling will come, um, probably because of a derivative dislocation and because of those relentless, you know, stackers and hodlers. Um, when that happens is really anybody's guess, but you know, I, I continue to increase, increase my allocation because I don't want to be short Bitcoin when that happens. And so, uh, happy to be a buyer here and happy to be, be a buyer for however long that decoupling takes. But I think Bitcoin will be the best performer on the other side of all of this.

• 25:18Anthony Pompliano?

  Legend. Couldn't have said it better myself. Uh, where can we send people to find you on the internet, follow you on Twitter? Where, where do you want us to send them?

• 25:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, just find me on Twitter, uh, at Dylan Leclerc underscore. Uh, you know, if you want to take a, take a past look at some of the videos we've done, Tom, I think, uh, some of them have aged quite well. Uh, just talking about the bonds and the macro environment and, and the Bitcoin scene. Uh, and also I document all the, all of my writing and research, uh, with Bitcoin Magazine Pro, uh, where we have, uh, you know, pay lists and, and a free tier, uh, if you want, you know, to, to pick either one.

• 25:49Anthony Pompliano?

  I love it, man. You're doing a fantastic job. Keep it up. As, uh, every time you come on here, I learn something. So I appreciate you taking the time to do it. I know other people do as well. So keep, uh, keep going. And, uh, somebody called you a whippersnapper in the, in the chat. So you must be doing something right.

• 26:05Speaker 02

  Appreciate it, Tom. Catch you later, man.

• 26:07Anthony Pompliano?

  Later, buddy. Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. I really hope you guys enjoyed this one. Make sure you subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player. And if you're looking to try to transition to get a new job in the Bitcoin or crypto industry, we've got you covered. Head over to pompscryptocourse.com. We've developed a curriculum with the top teams across the industry. It's a three week intensive training program with over 50 events packed into that three week time period. Go to pompscryptocourse.com to learn more and I'll meet you guys for the next episode.