#976 Hannah Maruyama On How To Get A Tech Job Without A College Degree

Hannah Maruyama is the host of the podcast and TikTok channel "Degree Free", she's also a graduate of our crypto training course "Crypto Academy". In this conversation, we talk about getting a job in Crypto, pivoting and learning new skills for a career change, the "Degree Free" movement of opting out of a college, and how you can make six figures a year without a college degree. ======================= LMAX Digital - the market-leading solution for institutional crypto trading & custodial services - offers clients a regulated, transparent and secure trading environment, together with the deepest pool of crypto liquidity. LMAX Digital is also a primary price discovery venue, streaming real-time market data to the industry’s leading analytics platforms. LMAX Digital - secure, liquid, trusted. Learn more at LMAXdigital.com/pomp ======================= The Pod Pro Cover by Eight Sleep is the most advanced solution on the market for thermoregulation. It pairs dynamic cooling and heating with biometric tracking. Go to https://www.eightsleep.com/Pomp to check out the Pod Pro Cover and save $150 at checkout. Eight Sleep currently ships within the USA, Canada, and the UK. ======================= The world's 2nd largest crypto exchange, OKEx, has dropped the "E" to become OKX, reflecting its evolution from a traditional crypto exchange to a comprehensive, cross-platform crypto services provider. With OKX's decentralized platform and Web3 wallet, MetaX, you have full custody over your crypto. Explore DeFi, NFTs and play-to-earning gaming with the world's most powerful crypto exchange. Visit OKX.com to learn more. =======================

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Anthony Pompliano?

  What's up everyone, this is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, simply the best podcast out there. Now let's kick this thing off. Hannah Maruyama is the host of the podcast called Degree Free. She also is a graduate of our training and upskilling program, Crypto Academy. In this conversation Hannah and I talk all about actually getting trained on cryptocurrencies, talk about the upskilling and why she found so much value in that training program. I really enjoyed this conversation with Hannah and I hope you guys enjoy it as well. Before we get into this episode though, I first want to talk about our sponsors. First up is LMAX Digital, the number one institutional crypto exchange. They offer clients the deepest pool of crypto liquidity on the planet, underscored by 100% uptime

• 0:47Anthony Pompliano?

  track record through volatility spikes. They leverage LMAX Group's liquidity relationships and ultra-low latency technology. LMAX Digital is the market-leading solution for institutional crypto trading and custodial services. If you've never heard of LMAX Digital, it's probably because you're not an institution. They have no retail, only institutions. They feature a central limit order book, streaming spot Bitcoin, Ether, Litecoin, and Bitcoin Cash, all paired with US Dollars, Euro, and Yen. LMAX Digital, they're secure, they're liquid, and they're trusted. Learn more at LMAXdigital.com/pomp. Again, LMAXdigital.com/pomp. This episode is brought to you by 8Sleep. 8Sleep is the single best product that I have purchased over the last three years. It completely

• 1:32Anthony Pompliano?

  changed my life. I'm not joking, pay attention. The Pod Pro cover, which goes over your mattress by 8Sleep, is the most advanced solution on the market for thermal regulation. It pairs dynamic cooling and heating with biometric tracking. You can go to 8sleep.com/pomp to check out the Pod Pro cover and you save $150 at checkout. They currently ship within the United States, Canada, and the UK. Now I told you, it changed my life. It helps me sleep deeper, helps me sleep longer. I feel much more refreshed and I have better energy. You want to know how I have relentless energy every single day? Because I sleep on an 8Sleep. Seriously, go check it out, 8sleep.com/pomp today. This episode is brought to you by OKX. OKEX has dropped the E to become OKX.

• 2:16Anthony Pompliano?

  Founded in 2017 with a mission to deliver a cutting-edge crypto trading experience, OKX, the world's second-largest crypto exchange by trading volume, has since expanded its scope alongside the wider industry, adding features from all corners of crypto. If EX is about exchange, X is about intersections. Cross-chain, cross-functional, cross-platform, an interoperable future that's not siloed into isolated platforms and blockchains. The name change and the new look and feel represent OKX's ongoing move towards decentralized finance. With OKX's decentralized platform and Web3 wallet, MetaX, you have full custody over your crypto. Connect MetaX in your browser or within the OKX app

• 2:59Anthony Pompliano?

  to explore DeFi, NFTs, and play to earning gaming with the world's most powerful crypto exchange. Whether you're just learning about crypto, you're a seasoned DeFi DJ, an NFT enthusiast, or a pro trader, you're all invited to a better future. Go check it out today and let me know what you think.

• 3:17Speaker 01

  Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

• 3:40Anthony Pompliano?

  Hannah is here now, actually. So Hannah, how are you?

• 3:44Speaker 02

  I'm doing good. Nice to actually meet you. This is pretty wild, I have to say, having been reading your tweets for a very long time.

• 3:52Anthony Pompliano?

  I'm very excited about this. Maybe let's just start with, what are you doing now in the Bitcoin and crypto industry? What do you spend all day doing?

• 4:01Speaker 02

  Sure. So currently, what I'm doing now is I'm doing business analysis and product ownership for a company that's doing a single source of truth platform to manage complex documents across B2B enterprises. Very exciting stuff. Lots of paperwork.

• 4:17Anthony Pompliano?

  Lots of paperwork is okay. And then I guess maybe one of the most interesting things about you is that you've got a podcast called Degree Free. And it's this whole idea that like, maybe people don't need as many college degrees and all of that as they thought. Tell me a little bit about the podcast and kind of why are you so? Maybe obsessed with with this idea.

• 4:40Speaker 02

  Oh, man, you're just giving me a platform to talk about this. I'll talk about this all day and I do. But like most people who do not have college degrees, I have a big old chip on my shoulder about people telling me I can't do things. And I think that I find that to be true for a lot of people that do not have college degrees. But the main reason that I'm so passionate about it now is because about two and a half years ago, like a lot of people who had to transition their jobs when the lockdowns, you know, devastated whole industries, I ended up in in tech. And the first job I applied for required a computer science degree, and I don't have a degree at all. And it's something that I've always questioned the necessity for since I dropped out.

• 5:25Speaker 02

  But that just sent me down this whole rabbit hole of finding different, finding different ways to find people jobs that they want, trying to help them figure out what's effective to learn, like the minimum effective dose that they need to learn in order to apply for a job. And so that's become, that's, that's become something I talk about all the time now.

• 5:44Anthony Pompliano?

  And when you think about people trying to transition into technology industry, so we can use Bitcoin and crypto, or we could use other ones, and they don't have a college degree, what are some of the tips or tricks that you share with them as to how to increase the probability that they're able to get those jobs?

• 5:59Speaker 02

  Sure. So this is actually, and a lot of people think that there's a lot of mysticism around this and something, a way that it gets dismissed quite often is, oh, you must have had a connection, but I didn't. And that one, that one tends to get people. But something that my husband, Ryan, who's also my podcast co-host, something that we teach people is we call it finding a job backwards. And so this is going to be a little counterintuitive because really it's finding a job forwards. But if you were raised in an American school, what you're taught to do is you're taught to buy first and ask questions later. But the thing is, that kind of makes no sense because here's the employee and here's the business. And you'll notice that the college is nowhere involved in this transaction. So it makes no sense to buy a piece of paper that's supposedly a requirement for a job

• 6:44Speaker 02

  without first checking to see if the business will hire you without it. And so what we have people do is we have people go through multiple job listings. So let's say looking through 20 different job listings and tallying up how often they see a skill or a certification mentioned in the listing and then going from there and learning that. Thing and then applying for the job.

• 7:06Anthony Pompliano?

  So when you think about that, the idea of, hey, I know what I want to work from a job perspective, I can go and I can look. And if it doesn't say I need a college degree, then, you know, pretty obvious, maybe I don't need to go to college in order to get that job. Talk to me a little bit about the skills. So if I read through a job kind of opening, and I see in the description, it says, hey, you need skill A, B, or C. How do you guys normally help people learn that skill? Is it something where they can just go on the internet and, you know, kind of play around on Google or YouTube and end up learning? Or is there something else?

• 7:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, so the thing that Ryan and I are really big on is trying to reduce risk. Because the thing about college is fundamentally, it is just really financially risky. And it's so interesting because it's been painted to all of us, sold to all of us really, for 12 years as the safest investment that somebody could make. When in fact, it's one of the most high risk ones you could make. Because if you're wrong, you are out. I mean, the average family spends 30K a year for a per student. And then not only that, but most college graduates take five and a half years to graduate. So you're talking about something that's very time and money intensive. So what we tell people is look at the skills that are listed. And this is even if it does say, you know, it requires a college degree, screw it. Like, ignore that and just look to see what skills it actually says that you need.

• 8:21Speaker 02

  So if what comes up multiple times is they want you to learn how to use Adobe Premiere, you can learn Adobe Premiere for free. You know, if it tells you, if the job description says they need somebody who's really competent with Excel or can use SQL or needs basic knowledge of Python. All of those things you can learn on the internet for free. So what we advise people to do is look for zero cost options that you can self teach and then slowly increase your learning budget as you go up.

• 8:45Anthony Pompliano?

  And then when you start to look at the skill development, what is the right time to go to college, right? So like, developing your skills is one piece, but are there ever times where you say, no, actually, going to college makes sense here? I'm assuming like a doctor or a lawyer where things are, you have to go to college to get the degree. Anything else or other situations?

• 9:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, so we actually did a podcast episode about this more recently because that is that's usually the only two rebuttals that people can come up with. I say, hey, you don't have to go to college and people say, oh, but what about the doctors? But what about the lawyers? The one thing that I do enjoy telling people is that you can still read the law in four states just because I like I like I like loopholes. But yeah, obviously for doctors and then for certain high level. What we found was that certain high level things where it's required for professional licensure. So medicine is one of those things, obviously highly regulated, highly controlled. But you know, teaching as well, right? That's a hard one. Public school, public school teachers, you need it for professional licensure. It's legally required.

• 9:46Speaker 02

  So any field where it's legally required, yeah, you're you're going to want to get it.

• 9:50Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, one of the things that's fascinating about teachers specifically, and I forget all the exact numbers, but it's like 50%. I think of public school teachers have master's degrees and 50% don't. And basically they end up in a very similar situation from pay, from schools, from what they teach, etc. And so there are times where going and getting not just a college degree, but an advanced degree could be helpful. But then there's industries like teachers where depending on states and kind of local jurisdictions, etc. Sometimes it makes sense, sometimes it doesn't. You actually may be able to get to the same endpoint without without going at the advanced degrees at least.

• 10:28Speaker 02

  I think it's rare and this is this one's going to ruffle some feathers probably, but I do that a lot. But specifically, I have pretty strong opinions about how women are targeted for these for buying. Because college is a business and I that's something too that is a you're not allowed to say that, but it's an $848 billion business. And you're not allowed to say, hey, women are the most frequent buyers and the most frequent buyers, repeat buyers of college degrees, return customers. Are people in lower paying fields and that's going to be women who are going into social work, women who are going into teaching. And then another another group that the colleges did target for this was nurses. They love to, you know, more recently, that was something that my mom is actually.

• 11:12Speaker 02

  Or nurse and she retired because they were pressuring her to go back and get, you know, and get a degree, get an advanced degree, even though she didn't need one. She'd been nursing for, you know, quite some time, but you got to get, you got to get the money from the people that are spending it. So it's something that a lot of times up close, I've not seen the math work out for teachers, for friends of mine who are teachers getting master's degrees. I think that a lot of times that doesn't end up working out very well for them. Truthfully, the incremental increase is such that it's not actually worth what they spent. And so that's interesting, something to consider if you're a teacher.

• 11:47Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. And how much of this is like the industries are in on the game? So it's the hospital or the, you know, nurses association or whatever, forcing people or trying to encourage them to go get education. It's the teachers' union or the teachers' association trying to get them to go get more degrees. Like, is there some kind of funny business going on between the universities and colleges and like the professional organizations or their employers? Or does that just happen to be really good marketing on the college standpoint? And then the associations just kind of do the, the sales for the universities?

• 12:18Speaker 02

  I probably, I'd probably say it's that. I think that the colleges have built a marketing machine unlike anything that we have ever seen, because this is something that's intergenerational at this point. They've created people. It's like, it's like if people were selling timeshare and then they had timeshare owners selling timeshare. It's like the most effective marketing you will ever see in your life, because you'll have grandparents pressure parents, pressure kids to go and they pressure them to make this purchase, whether or not, even if the math laid out in front of them says that this is not going to be worth it for your child. And in fact, it might harm them. They can't get over the fact, they can't get over the fact that they were told that

• 12:58Speaker 02

  this is the lowest risk, wisest thing, best way to guarantee their child access. Because a lot of parents believe they're buying entry into a certain social class. Right? So it's, it's interesting how we've allowed colleges to sort of take responsibility for outcomes that have nothing to do with them. Right? And then just package it, rubber stamp it and say, this is a result of, of buying a paper from us. And then we just outsource all of our thinking and all of our, all of our assessment of people's merit to a piece of paper. It's pretty wild. It's something I see too with the Bitcoin companies now, with the crypto companies now, that it's, it's something that really, that one, that one gets me.

• 13:36Anthony Pompliano?

  Explain more about what you're seeing there.

• 13:38Speaker 02

  Well, I just see a high frequency, one that that kind of surprised me when I was looking into jobs, but I was surprised by how many people who are trying to build the new world are using an old world archaic metric that has really no bearing or statement on what someone's ability or intellect or practical skill level is.

• 13:58Anthony Pompliano?

  And so when

• 13:58Speaker 02

  purchase.

• 13:59Anthony Pompliano?

  When you think about kind of going through that transition, I know that you went and spent a bunch of time trying to learn about Bitcoin cryptocurrencies and eventually tried to go work in the industry. Talk to me about kind of what lessons you learned or what the best practices were there to help folks who want to make that same transition into the crypto industry. Like, what do you suggest they go and do?

• 14:19Speaker 02

  Sure. So I'm really big on self education. Something you hear a lot is that, you know, people say, oh, education should be free or low cost. And the thing is, education is free and education is low cost. College is not. And those are two entirely separate things. And that's something that you folks are doing well, really well in the course. But what people need to do is they need to do their own research on what they want to learn and they need to be bold in self education. So they need to say, all right, I need to be better at critical thinking. I'm going to take up, you know, I'm going to take up chess. I'm going to read because these are things that are low cost that people can do on their own. And I personally believe scholars and educated people are actually made alone. But but these are great things that people can do that reduce risk and have a higher return, I think,

• 15:03Speaker 02

  which is teaching themselves different things. You can improve your public speaking. You can improve your critical thinking. You can improve your practical skills like using Excel or learning, you know, as much as learning to code is a trope nowadays, but you can teach yourself to code. And then as you go along and as you get a little bit deeper into these things, people should start looking into courses like yours where there's curated content that allows them to tailor their education in such a way that it it fills exactly whatever they couldn't figure out for themselves. Because that's what I ended up doing and I had never been in a cohort based course before. And so it was really cool to be in to be in your group. And I got a lot out of the the network and the community and

• 15:46Speaker 02

  General, but also, you know, something that you folks do that you have the ability to do that colleges just can't do is keep up with the market. And the the need of information as it changes so rapidly, especially with, you know, Bitcoin and cryptocurrency industries, it's just so new still. And so there's just a lot of nuance and it really helps to have curated content and to have people who can answer really dynamic questions. Because the answers are so different and so complex.

• 16:14Anthony Pompliano?

  And then when you start to think about something like the training program, I think a lot of folks are going through that. And they're thinking about it in terms of how do I get a job? How do I just go and, um, uh, you know, figure out more about the industry specific knowledge? For young people, that makes a ton of sense, right? They're trying to, uh, go and start a career. But there also seems to be a lot of people who are going through what I call like upskilling, right? So I already actually have a career. I'm already in a marketing department or an accountant, or maybe I work at a customer service or operations at a business. And now I want to kind of laterally change and I need to upskill in in terms of the topic specific information. Like, how does that play into folks who are looking to go get a job, whether they have a college degree or they don't?

• 16:57Anthony Pompliano?

  Like, talk a little bit about that upskilling idea, because it it seems to align very similarly to what you're talking about in terms of being like this self-starter learner, right? Really being focused on how do I get myself, uh, in the right position regardless of if I choose the college path or not?

• 17:11Speaker 02

  So that's, I actually have a good, I have a good story for this. Um, so it's, it's been really cool and really rewarding to see as, uh, I've, uh, as Ryan and I've continued to build our TikTok audience. But we get, you know, the most encouraging part is seeing people that said, I, I did it, you know, I, I, I found this thing and I learned it. And then I applied for these jobs and I got it. And one of them was a young girl who was a teacher. And I say girl, because she was real young, she was probably about 21 or 22 years old. And, um, she was, uh, she had a teaching degree and so she had just started teaching, but was really unhappy because stressful environment, low pay, you know, et cetera, et cetera. And so she started looking into, uh, becoming a Salesforce administrator, which is something, that's actually how I got into tech. Was I found a listing for Salesforce administrator?

• 17:56Speaker 02

  And I, you know, learned it. I sat down and learned it in thirty one days because that's how long it takes to to really, you know, to master, to to master the minimum effective dose of skill to get to the point where you could learn. And something that I think is really difficult for people who already have college degrees is that they feel like they need permission, right? So a lot of them will go back to school before they would learn, before they would try to teach themselves something and then try to apply. And so that's a huge thing. I think that what a lot of people really need is they just need to to learn that they need to apply anyway. They need to just apply fearlessly to things. They need to be willing to try stuff and not be so scared to fail because a lot of it's just teaching yourself. So the only person you're failing is yourself, you know, when you're when you're self teaching

• 18:41Speaker 02

  and you don't accomplish certain learning goals in time. So that's a big thing, but just learning to be bold and just saying, okay, this is what I think I need. I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go look through these skills, very boring, but just making an Excel spreadsheet and saying they want this, this, and this. I can learn this and this and then applying. And so to wrap that story up, this girl ended up learning Salesforce Administration and brushing up on her Excel skills. And then she transitioned seamlessly into an admin role. And, you know, she's broke six figures. It's crazy. But it's just effective. It's just strategic and effective research because that's what it is.

• 19:18Anthony Pompliano?

  I mean, what you're talking about here is literally people without college degrees making six figures, right?

• 19:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, I'm one of those. And it's crazy. It's crazy. I never thought like, that's never something that I thought in my life, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's surreal, it's surreal to me to talk about it now. But it's something that once I, once I, once I broke through that and I looked behind me, I was like, well, how come never, how come no one ever told me this? How come no one ever told me that like, if I learn skills that people need, they might hire me to do work, right? What a simple concept.

• 19:47Anthony Pompliano?

  I love that. After going through the training program, talk to me a little bit about like, what did you learn? And how did that help you as you went looking for a job, right? So it's, it's obviously not college, it's nowhere near college. But it has specific knowledge around the Bitcoin crypto industry. Talk to me a little Bit about kind of what the lessons learned were.

• 20:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I think for me that the most valuable part of the course was the fact that I had been doing a lot of reading, like a lot of people. So like a lot of women, my husband was the one who introduced me to Bitcoin. And so that was something that, you know, I came to it more from a philosophical standpoint of just saying, yeah, our money is being stolen from us. Yeah, people control our money that should have no control over anything, much less money. And, um, and so I was a hundred percent behind it. But the mechanics were really intimidating, right? Because I don't have a mathematical technical background. And so for me, trying to figure out where to put my energy to learn and to further my knowledge.

• 20:48Speaker 02

  First, what I wanted was I wanted somebody to break down a general overview of what, of what each aspect was, how they were different, the underlying technologies, the underlying use cases. And so that is, is where I got a lot of value out of the course. And that, and then also being in a group of people who were learning the same thing and seeing their questions and seeing that they were asking similar questions or wildly different questions that, you know, kind of spurred me to go, oh, I'm going to go look into that now. Because as of, as of now, my next step is AI and machine learning. It's extremely interesting. And like I said, it seems surreal to be talking about that because that is not, it's never something that I was planning to do with my life. I was the most useless of the useless.

• 21:31Speaker 02

  I was going to school to get a communications degree. So before I dropped out. And, and now I'm like, oh, I want to be a machine learning engineer. So.

• 21:39Anthony Pompliano?

  And you think that you can go from college dropout, no college degree, who put yourself in a position to make six figures without the college degree? And now you want to go learn to be a machine learning engineer?

• 21:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's no rules.

• 21:54Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, there's definitely no rules. Listen, literally, I could talk to you for hours about this, right? That the fact that, uh, the college degree, and I think we should be clear about one thing. There are certain jobs, there are certain companies where it's really, really important. But the trend is that it is becoming less important. And there are plenty of companies who don't give a shit.

• 22:13Speaker 02

  About the college degree. But going from a communications degree pursuit to machine learning engineer. It's not like, hey, I want to go learn how to do CSS and maybe make some websites, right? It's not like, oh, I just want to be any software engineer. Machine learning engineer, those are probably one of the most sought after engineering talent positions in the world right now, from a company standpoint. Companies are looking to hire those people and they'll pay them, you know, forget $100,000. They'll pay them half a million bucks a year, in some cases even more than that with equity and cash. And so walk me through, what's the playbook? How do you go from where you are now to becoming a machine learning engineer? Well, so this is something too, that I think I've had a pretty varied work background.

• 22:56Speaker 02

  And this is something where you asked, you know, when, when should people go to college? And one thing that I have seen, so I actually have never, not once, there's thousands of hours of content. I have actually never told people not to go to college, which a lot of people would be surprised to learn because it's funny that I get labeled anti-college when really what I am is pro learner, you know, or pro employee, which is if you don't need to spend the money, why would you, why would you spend the money? And just bringing up the college is a financial decision, right? But we're, we're not allowed, we're not allowed to say college is a financial decision. So that's probably why. But one thing that I found to be really interesting is that because I had time, so things, things that I did instead of spending that time in college, so, you know, I worked, I worked full time.

• 23:39Speaker 02

  And I know some people work while they're in college, but that's, that's not often the case, you know? So during that time, I wrote a couple of books, I owned a brick and mortar tattoo shop, weird, you know, weird things. But I did, I had a lot of professional work experience, right? So I learned, you know, I learned the sales cycle, I learned how to do digital marketing. I learned a little bit, you know, a little bit on the technical side of things. So picking up, you know, basic, basic skills, learning how to use Excel, learning familiarity with HTML, if not full competency. And so, and so just getting exposed to these things made me go, huh, okay. Well, if I find that these aren't as intimidating as I thought they were, how far can I push it? Like, how far, how far can I push it? What can I learn? And once you start.

• 24:23Speaker 02

  Learning too, because a lot of people, when they leave college, they exit the learning mindset, not realizing that that's actually when the learning starts because you've never done a job before. And so you're about to figure out what the minimum effective dose of practical, actual useful experience you need. And what skills you actually need, because a college can't tell you that. They can only guess. Only a business can tell you that. And honestly, they're guessing too. But they're guessing a lot more accurately than a college, because a college is incentivized to sell you something that takes as long as possible and costs as much as possible. Whereas a business needs to get you in the door to do work as fast as possible.

• 24:58Anthony Pompliano?

  Another thing that cracks me up always is there's a big difference in perception, whether you agree that there should be or not. With, I don't have a college degree and I'm a college dropout.

• 25:10Speaker 02

  For some reason. That's why we say degree free, because I was like, I'm sick of hearing that. Like I, and I don't actually say college, I don't usually say college dropout. I say college breakout because lucky me. Like, thank goodness, I didn't do that because if I had, you know, if I had, which I, I'm sure that I would have. If I had had a hundred thousand dollars of debt on my back, I wouldn't have the freedom to explore different options. I would be stuck in the least risky route possible because I would have to be paying down my student debt. Because I didn't have, there was, there was nobody paying it but me. And so that's something that I think has been really freeing as well.

• 25:43Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, it's, it's incredible. Where can we send people to find you on the internet or find the podcast that you and your husband are doing?

• 25:50Speaker 02

  Sure. So you can follow me on TikTok if you want, be, be aware, do get into scuffuffles with PhDs every once in a while. That's pretty fun.

• 25:57Anthony Pompliano?

  Are they on TikTok? Are the, are the PhDs on there?

• 26:00Speaker 02

  You would not believe, I brought up the machine learning, I brought up the machine learning thing, not for myself, but because one of my followers asked about machine learning and self teaching. And I brought up the fact that one of the most prolific trailblazers in the field right now, his name is Chris Ola. He's a teal, he's a teal fellowship grad, doesn't have a bachelor's degree and they lost their minds. They lost their minds. They're like, well, it's just, you know, he's just a genius. I'm like, is he a genius? Maybe he is, or maybe you're wrong and people can teach themselves these things. Like, or that, you know, where's the scientific curiosity? Where do they go?

• 26:32Anthony Pompliano?

  Well, what's the difference between learning? Machine learning from somebody on YouTube versus in a classroom like at the end of the day, it's just information.

• 26:39Speaker 02

  $30,000 a year.

• 26:40Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 26:43Anthony Pompliano?

  And 30,000 is probably on the low end in the coming years.

• 26:47Speaker 02

  That's a deal. That's a deal, but.

• 26:49Anthony Pompliano?

  What is your Tik, what is your Tik Tok account?

• 26:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, sorry. So my Tik Tok is degree free. And then our podcast, actually, if you want to find us, we have a pretty cool newsletter. We send out jobs, resources, all kinds of stuff. So it's a degree free. Oh, look, there it is. It's degree free.co forward slash sign up and you can get our newsletter. Our podcast is on there. And then we are launching our first cohort. If you want to learn how to find jobs backwards on June 1st.

• 27:15Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, amazing. Go back real quick to the degree free website, guys. We don't care about rules here. We care about what works. Education, work, business. We break down how to get where you want to go. No college required. Let's do this. I love this. This is like such a no brainer. And I think that probably a huge part of the value that you all provide is not just like the tactics and techniques on how somebody can do it. But also, it's having people see that it's possible. Like, people freak out the second that you said, hey, I make six figures a year and I don't have a college degree. People go nuts, right? And they're like, oh, that's possible. Like, no one ever told me that. And then, yep, once they know it's possible, it's like, okay, now how do I do it?

• 27:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's what I say. If I can do it, and I use a phrase in our house, any old idiot. But I'm like, if I can do it, it's like, I'm any old idiot. If you could, if I can do it, you can do it too. And I mean that in the most, in the most empowering way possible. But just apply, people, apply anyway, apply fearlessly, ignore experienced in degree requirements. If you think you could do the work, or you think you'd learn the work, just apply.

• 28:14Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, I love this. All right. So at degree free on Tik Tok. I'm not on Tik Tok, but I'll, I'll let the PhDs jump in there and argue with you guys in the comments. And then you're on Twitter as well. And then people can just go to degree free network.com.

• 28:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, so it's actually degree free.co.

• 28:33Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, okay. All right. Degree free.co for anyone who. Wants to go there, but awesome Hannah. Listen, thank you so much for taking the time to do this. I think this is awesome and anyone who is listening or watching, definitely go check it out. The world is not going to be built on college degrees in the future. That's for sure.

• 28:53Speaker 02

  No, for sure not.

• 28:54Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. Thank you.

• 28:55Speaker 02

  Nice to meet you.

• 28:56Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. Bye. Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. I really hope you guys enjoyed this one. Make sure you subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player. And if you're looking to try to transition to get a new job in the Bitcoin or crypto industry, we've got you covered. Head over to pompscryptocourse.com. We've developed a curriculum with the top teams across the industry. It's a three-week intensive training program with over 50 events packed into that three-week time period. Go to pompscryptocourse.com to learn more and I'll meet you guys for the next episode.