#944 Kyle Trouble On Becoming A Sovereign Individual

Kyle Trouble is an online personality who I've enjoyed following for his independent, clear thinking on how people can become sovereign individuals. In this conversation, we discuss building businesses, digital nomad, living in Ukraine, Bitcoin, and regulation. ======================= LMAX Digital - the market-leading solution for institutional crypto trading & custodial services - offers clients a regulated, transparent and secure trading environment, together with the deepest pool of crypto liquidity. LMAX Digital is also a primary price discovery venue, streaming real-time market data to the industry’s leading analytics platforms. LMAX Digital - secure, liquid, trusted. Learn more at LMAXdigital.com/pomp ======================= The Pod Pro Cover by Eight Sleep is the most advanced solution on the market for thermoregulation. It pairs dynamic cooling and heating with biometric tracking. Go to https://www.eightsleep.com/Pomp to check out the Pod Pro Cover and save $150 at checkout. Eight Sleep currently ships within the USA, Canada, and the UK. ======================= The world's 2nd largest crypto exchange, OKEx, has dropped the "E" to become OKX, reflecting its evolution from a traditional crypto exchange to a comprehensive, cross-platform crypto services provider. With OKX's decentralized platform and Web3 wallet, MetaX, you have full custody over your crypto. Explore DeFi, NFTs and play-to-earning gaming with the world's most powerful crypto exchange. Visit OKX.com to learn more. =======================

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Anthony Pompliano?

  What's up everyone, this is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, simply the best podcast out there. Now let's kick this thing off. Kyle Trouble is a guy that I found on the internet. I really enjoy following and I think he's got some pretty interesting ideas around how you can become sovereign individual. I brought him on to the podcast and we talked about all kinds of different things, from building businesses, to digital nomads, to various geographic arbitrages between Eastern Europe and the West, and then also around Bitcoin, cryptocurrencies, regulation, and a number of other topics. I really hope that you enjoy this conversation with Kyle, as I did. But before we get into this episode, I first want to talk about our sponsors. First up is LMAX Digital, the number one institutional crypto exchange. They offer

• 0:47Anthony Pompliano?

  clients the deepest pool of crypto liquidity on the planet, underscored by 100% uptime track record through volatility spikes. They leverage LMAX Group's liquidity relationships and ultra-low latency technology. LMAX Digital is the market-leading solution for institutional crypto trading and custodial services. If you've never heard of LMAX Digital, it's probably because you are not an institution. They have no retail, only institutions. They feature a central limit order book streaming spot Bitcoin, Ether, Litecoin, and Bitcoin Cash, all paired with US Dollars, Euro, and Yen. LMAX Digital, they're secure, they're liquid, and they're trusted. Learn more at LMAXdigital.com/pomp. Again, LMAXdigital.com/pomp.

• 1:29Anthony Pompliano?

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• 2:14Anthony Pompliano?

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• 3:00Anthony Pompliano?

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• 3:21Speaker 01

  Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

• 3:45Anthony Pompliano?

  Kyle, how are you doing?

• 3:46Speaker 02

  I'm good. Thanks for having me on, man. Appreciate it.

• 3:48Anthony Pompliano?

  Absolutely. Very excited to talk to you today. Let's start first with just the overarching idea of becoming a sovereign individual. What would you say that really entails? Like, what does that mean?

• 3:59Speaker 02

  I think what the options given to younger people these days is pretty lousy compared to what it used to be. And I think most people need to be building alternative income streams. They need to learn to invest on their own. And more than anything, they need to learn to be independent of these systems, of governments, and they need to just be ready if stuff's gonna go bad in the world. And I think the whole American dream and many of the things that entails is no longer exactly what it used to be. And that's made it very difficult for people to make it in this life. And there's gotta be a better way.

• 4:26Anthony Pompliano?

  So where were you born? Are you, are you an American citizen or you're born somewhere else?

• 4:30Speaker 02

  Correct. Yeah, correct. I'm born and raised in California. I was working as a data systems engineer at Hitachi like when I was 21 years old. And by the time I was 24, I'd moved to a government think tank. And you can probably imagine very quickly what that entails, endless meetings, endless bureaucracies. And I went to Eastern Europe in 2014 and I just immediately knew like this is where I need to be. So I started making plans to get out there. I built a couple of online businesses. And in 2016, I was about 24, I quit the job and said, okay, I'm going out there and ultimately settled in Ukraine. And well, I'm not in Ukraine anymore right now, as you can probably figure out. But that's kind of the story of the last seven or so years of my life in a nutshell.

• 5:10Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay, so let's first start with, why was Eastern Europe so attractive to you, right? Coming from the United States, living in California, there's plenty of people who would say, hey, actually, I'm from Eastern Europe and I want to get to California. I want to get to the United States. You were doing the opposite. What was so attractive to you about Eastern Europe?

• 5:27Speaker 02

  I think mostly just so I could build a business because I didn't think I could do the corporate thing as well as actually build something and be able to afford to live in California and make it just off the, off the business alone. So I think originally I knew I could get my cost of living down to $2,000 or $3,000 a month. And I had $20,000 in the bank and said, you know what, I'm just going to go for it. And that's pretty much how it started. But in addition, you know, being able to just walk more. You know, I thought that the dating options were a little bit better, just a very different lifestyle than what you would be used to in America. You know, with driving everywhere, commuting, the nine to five, strip malls, very, very different out there.

• 6:01Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. And so when you think about Eastern Europe, you ended up in Ukraine. What was so attractive about Ukraine itself? Was it just like the epitome of all those things you just described?

• 6:12Speaker 02

  Very much so. And I also thought that it was very much a tipping point. It was a place that was just starting to get a little bit more westernized. And you've seen all, obviously, all the Western support for Ukraine during this crisis. And so it was just about the tip where things were a little bit more convenient. There were some good investing opportunities. The, the whole society seemed to be learning more English. So I thought, you know, it was very much on the cutting edge of, of flipping a little more Western, which there are some downsides to that, as well as still having a lot of those other kind of more old world values and a little bit more going on for it in that sense as well.

• 6:43Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. And so in order to be able to do this, you had the corporate job, then you're working at the think tank. You mentioned that you had to build businesses. What was so important about doing that? What you just wanted to get in a financial position where you could kind of live anywhere in the world and have like online businesses?

• 6:56Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 6:57Anthony Pompliano?

  Or what was that?

• 6:58Speaker 02

  Exactly. Yeah. So I started out originally with just a dating blog and then that did well. I built a few other like little travel sites and did affiliate marketing with that. And then of course, I obviously I was still building my own brand, my blog. I started teaching a little bit about SEO and what I learned from that. And then when I got out to Eastern Europe, a few years in, I started an olive oil company with a friend that I'd met, a reader of the blog. And from there, I just kind of kept building stuff. And now one of my main things is a Ukrainian recruiting company. So I saw a gap in the market where, you know, a lot of Filipinos, a lot of Indians, but there wasn't a lot of people in Eastern Europe that were looking for these online jobs. So that was, you know, there's been holes, there's been opportunities with me being out there that I've been able to step into and take advantage of.

• 7:40Anthony Pompliano?

  Walk me through like, when you think about starting a business, how do you evaluate the various businesses you could start? Do you have some sort of like research process? Do you measure the market? What are the metrics that are important to get you to the point where you're like, yep, this would be a good business to start and I'm going to do it?

• 7:55Speaker 02

  I really just stumbled into a lot of what I did. And like I said originally, it was just, I got to find a way to make it. And I didn't know exactly what was that was going to entail. So I stumbled into it and then, you know, these days, obviously I would be evaluating, you know, what's the payoff? I've got these other projects, I've got this going on, you know, what am I going to do? What's, you know, what's the ROI on this potentially? You know, what's the opportunity? If I'm going to sell it one day, what's that going to entail? So there's a lot that would go into it, but ultimately starting out, you know, it was just a lot of stumbling. And, you know, that's the big thing about entrepreneurs is most of us don't have any idea what we're doing when we start out. It's just a little bit of luck and a lot of grit.

• 8:29Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. So like, talk me through the Ukraine recruiting business, right? So how do you get started with that business? And then given that you're in Ukraine, how do you scale it globally? And really from the perspective of, there's a lot of folks who probably are watching who they either have corporate jobs or they're, they run a small business and they're saying, hey, I want to have more financial freedom. I want to escape the, the rat race, if you will. And you've obviously done that. So how did you start that and give us kind of the, the step by step on it?

• 8:56Speaker 02

  Well, I think the biggest thing is that you've got to realize is that you have to put yourself first, first and foremost. So I would say the best thing that I ever did was I started just waking up earlier. And I said, okay, no matter what, the first hour of the day is going to me. So find that one task and for me, it was really starting to write daily emails, um, selling products and those kinds of things. And right, so I wrote every day. And that, that first hour was me, you know, it's not going to anyone else. It's not going to your dog, it's not going to your wife, your girlfriend, it's just to you. You know, by the end of the day, the corporate grind, the nine to five, most people don't have the energy to be going home and then working on a side business. So get it out of the way first. And I mean, honestly, these days with the way things have developed with work from home, um, you know, there's so many opportunities out there. I don't see why a lot of people couldn't be working two remote jobs.

• 9:40Speaker 02

  And you could also just build up, you know, not income that way, but you could be building up a nice nest egg, some savings. And then of course, once you get abroad, it is significantly cheaper, you know, you can make things work. And then of course, if you built up a nest egg over the course of a couple of years, then you, you have some time to figure out the whole online business thing as well.

• 9:57Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, it's fascinating that you say this. Um, we've went to hire a number of people at various businesses that I'm either investing in or that I own. Uh, and in, uh, more than one situation, uh, either because they didn't tell us and we figured it out. Or people even just told us right in the interview process, they said, hey, I have a job, uh, and I'm going to keep that job. And I want to also do this job as well. And the job that I currently have only takes me three or four hours a day. Uh, so I have the rest of my day available and I want to increase my income and so I'm going to do two jobs, uh, which I do think will be coming.

• 10:26Speaker 02

  Does that bother you?

• 10:27Anthony Pompliano?

  So it didn't bother me, uh, when people said it upfront, but there was a couple of occasions where people, they basically insinuated or directly said they were going to quit their existing job and come work full time. And to me, that has specific ramifications and kind of connotations to it. Uh, and then later we found out they didn't quit their job, uh, even though they had basically said that they were going to. So it was more of like the unethical nature of you said one thing, you didn't do it. That bothered me for the people who upfront just said, hey, look, I'm going to keep my existing job and I'm going to work this other job. Look, if you get the work done, like, I don't care, right? But these are also roles. Yeah, and but these are also roles that weren't, uh, you're not going to be the CEO of the business, right? So it's very specific types of roles that I think you can do this.

• 11:08Anthony Pompliano?

  Uh, I do think there are some roles where it would not be possible to do it, uh, with great success. Uh, and so you just got to know, hey, for the role that I'm hiring for or the role that I'm applying for. Is this a role where I could do two jobs and this be one of them? Or is this a role that needs my full time and attention, uh, and wouldn't necessarily fit that framework, right?

• 11:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, correct. Yeah, no, I think it's a great option for a lot of people.

• 11:28Anthony Pompliano?

  And so as you think about doing this, you have essentially kind of, I'll say, been an example of taking the American dream, come from anywhere in the world, regardless of language, wealth, status, education, who your parents are, where you're from, and build a life of financial security, right? You've done it, but you've done it in reverse. You've done it from Eastern Europe. And so talk to me about like, could you have done this in the United States? And what are some of the pros or cons of having done it in Eastern Europe versus doing it in the US today?

• 11:56Speaker 02

  I don't think I could have done it in the US. I mean, when I was working at that think tank, I was 24, I was making about 86K a year. And you know what? I was only taking home about four and a half thousand a month. And in Los Angeles, that's pretty much nothing. So I don't think I really could have realistically done that. I needed to go somewhere where I could get those costs down to $2,000 or $3,000 a month and still kind of, you know, be able to live somewhat of a life. That being said, if I had been more inclined to just get my head down and grind, especially in today's world, work two or three remote jobs, just stack a bunch of cash, then it certainly could be doable. But at that time, it was a grinding job. I had to be there all day. It was technically difficult, a lot of bureaucracy. So I don't think personally, I would have had the energy or the fortitude to do it. And that being said, you know, most of the opportunities at that time, we're also in

• 12:40Speaker 02

  big cities. You know, now you could live in the middle of nowhere and still work for, say, a Silicon Valley company and take a good salary home and cut your, you know, prices down just by moving to somewhere like, say, the Midwest. So I think it's COVID and everything since then has made it a little more feasible to not go all the way across the world. But of course, going across the world where you get to live in like, say, European capital for a few thousand dollars a month is going to be a better quality of life than, you know, living in just a hoedown town in the middle of nowhere.

• 13:05Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. And then talk to me about some of the other aspects of it. So like, things like freedom, taxes, the debt system, et cetera. Like, how does that differ in the West versus Eastern Europe?

• 13:15Speaker 02

  Well, I think it's what concerns me is how oblivious people in the United States are to this. So, for example, in Ukraine, pre the whole crisis now, it started in 2014, realistically. So, the grivna, the dollar at that time was, I think, about six to eight. And since I moved out there in 2016, I've seen it at 28, 29. It's pegged at 30 right now, and I've seen it down as low as 22. No Ukrainians keep their savings in their local currency. They keep it in dollars, and they don't keep it in the bank. They keep it shoved under a mattress somewhere. That's their whole life savings, would be a stack of US dollars underneath their couch. And that's the best option for them. And so I think it's extremely concerning that Americans have had just this comfy existence where everything's safe, everything's insured, and the way that they have just conjured so

• 13:57Speaker 02

  much money out of thin air in the last few years should give people pause for concern. As far as freedoms go, you know, the biggest thing that always comes down to is, you know, you pay your tax in Eastern Europe, it might be, you know, whatever flat rate comes out of your salary, and that's it, you never see it. And at the end of the year, you don't have this insane tax system where you have to just file hundreds of paper, a piece of paper, and where if you get one decimal wrong, you get one numeral wrong, you know, the IRS can come at you five, seven years later, like, oh, you made this mistake. Well, now you owe all this money on all this interest. It doesn't work like that at all. You just are taxed, and that's it. And of course, in a lot of cases, you do get some healthcare, you get public transit. You don't also have to have a car with the insurance, with the house insurance and all these other things that just add up, they stack up for Americans.

• 14:42Speaker 02

  And, you know, I look at young people these days coming out of college, and I'm, what chance do they have to really get that financial freedom?

• 14:48Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, it's fascinating to kind of think through that. And then what do you think about like currencies? So, a lot of folks on here are obviously interested in Bitcoin. The US dollar has served as probably the best of all the fiat currencies over the last, you know, 20, 30 years. The currency in Russia has been absolutely decimated based on all the financial sanctions that have been levied by the US and NATO. The Ukrainian currency isn't necessarily doing as well as, let's say, the US, but still doing better than the ruble. Like, how do you start thinking about, in more of like a global citizen viewpoint, various currencies and like where do you keep your quote-unquote cash or kind of your liquid assets versus maybe investments or other things that you would have?

• 15:31Speaker 02

  Well, I'd say certainly Bitcoin has become the easiest way, especially for someone who wants to move abroad. You're not going to take a whole truck of gold bricks with you, right? So Bitcoin has become and stepped in that kind of ability to hold well in a sovereign way. That being said, you know, like I said, the local currencies, saving in dollars is what most people would do in countries that are not as, you know, global as the US, right? So this is what people have been doing for decades now is they save in dollars and Americans, like I said, take it for granted, it's just in the bank, it's safe and other people have had to, you know, stored under the mattress. And I think that's where if we're going to go to more cryptos and everyone's storing their wealth in that, the other countries are going to be a little bit more used to this and kind of being in charge of their own finances, right? So that's just it. If you put your money in the bank in Ukraine,

• 16:13Speaker 02

  if it's gone, it's gone. You know, it's happened before, it'll happen again and they're prepared for that. And I don't think they are here in the States.

• 16:20Anthony Pompliano?

  Walk me through what you, you know, like the biggest mistakes you see people who try to escape the rat race and get into more of this kind of a digital world or kind of sovereignty, if you will. Like, what are the biggest mistakes you see people make?

• 16:32Speaker 02

  I see a lot of people that have almost too much of a nest egg. I think really that desperation and that needing to figure out has helped. Like, I've seen some people that come out to Ukraine or some other country with, you know, several hundred thousand dollars. And that's enough there that they could live for at least a few years. And then they make it through a couple of years and a few years later, they're looking at their bank account saying, oh, it's starting to go down. And they don't have enough drive and motivation because they're not quite desperate enough to make it happen. So that's what I would say is you almost have to just jump into the deep end and really push yourself if you're going to, you know, build an income. Obviously, if you have enough saved away that you can live off, say, the dividends or the interest, then that's a whole different ballgame. But a lot of people put themselves in too comfy of a situation and life is too good. And of course, you know, people move abroad, they want to have fun, they want to

• 17:15Speaker 02

  party a little bit, they want to, you know, blow a lot of money. So that's definitely a downfall of many people.

• 17:20Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. And then what would you say are like the best practices? Like, do you have like a sequential, uh, kind of process that people should follow?

• 17:30Speaker 02

  I would say you need to first, obviously, evaluate your finances and what you're looking for in life. You know, some people who are older, you know, are you looking to maybe go have a family? You know, there's gonna be a very big difference between someone who wants to go to, say, Eastern Europe, South America, Southeast Asia, get married and have a family, or are you just a young guy who wants to build a business, party, and then eventually you maybe get to that. So you've got to evaluate, one, what you want out of life, two, the finances needed to provide that life, and then, three, you know, you've got to build a plan based off of that. So those are probably where I would always start.

• 17:59Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. And then when you think about the types of businesses, how much of this is like, let's go scale a digital business that has a bunch of employees, etc., versus just more of like a solo entrepreneur who has more of like passive income off of something they're doing? Like, what have you seen most people do?

• 18:17Speaker 02

  Well, the sexy thing is always to do something like e-commerce, or, you know, yield farming, or build an affiliate niche site. And I think probably the better thing to do these days is just to build a simple service business, something like as simple as, hey, I'm gonna design your website for X amount of money, and I'm gonna charge you Y amount per month to maintain it. And I think that's boring, but that's a significantly better option, because as soon as you start getting into all the really, you know, kind of, the things you'd see on Facebook ads, for example, you know, Facebook marketing, affiliate marketing, those are always gonna be at the mercy of these big companies. And again, you're just at the mercy of Google makes an algorithm update, or you lose your Facebook Ads account, or any other of the numerous things. A service business where you have customers that know you, you provide a good service, they like you, they pay you

• 19:00Speaker 02

  every month, word of mouth. I think that is the better way that people should be going these days.

• 19:05Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. And then when you start to think about some of the services that people can use, are there any sorts of products or software tools that you think kind of become staples or standards in people who are trying to become, you know, these digital nomad, or kind of sovereign individuals?

• 19:21Speaker 02

  I think most people should have an email marketing list. They should be emailing and asking for sales consistently. Obviously, then, credit card processors, basics. And I think everyone should have social media. I think every business should have some sort of organic way of generating revenue, something like Twitter, or something like a Facebook page. And those are always changing, like I said, so you've always got to be adaptable. But those are kind of the staples. Do email and get into a consistent routine.

• 19:43Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. And then when you start to think about Twitter, I know that's how I originally came across you, and have enjoyed a lot of the things that you tweet. How do you think about Twitter as like a marketing platform, or a tool in kind of your repertoire as you're building these businesses?

• 19:59Speaker 02

  Surprisingly, simple and effective. The big thing is not getting too wrapped up into arguing on the internet all day because that's no way to be productive. So, you know, get a scheduler, just sit down once a week, write out five tweets a day, respond to some people, but keep yourself off that consistent, just scroll, scroll, scroll, because that's where you don't get anything done. You gotta, you gotta systemize it, you gotta have a routine and you gotta not, you know, be at its mercy where it just controls your life. And that's easy to get into that.

• 20:24Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. And then when you start to think about things like Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, what's your general view on that? And how do you see that evolving over time?

• 20:33Speaker 02

  It's all going to depend, I think, on how people react and how much they're going to fight against, you know, the system, right? So if the government starts just cracking down on everything, I don't see a lot of fighting people these days after the last couple of years. You know, they're kind of just willing to sit there and take whatever they're told. So it's really going to be, I think, people being pushed to desperation where there is no other option, where they can't provide for their families, they can't buy that, you know, American dream, they can't get that house. So then I think we'll see that sort of just more global push. And, you know, I'm bullish long term, but I don't know how much pain we're gonna have to get through to, you know, mass, mass adoption.

• 21:05Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. And, and is there anything that you're maybe concerned about at the intersection of like regulation or nation states and Bitcoin? Or do you feel like that's not really the place where, where the risk lies?

• 21:18Speaker 02

  I think it's certainly a risk. You know, there's obviously precedent, the government has before said, turn us all the gold over and we will buy it at this price. And then they've come, you know, a couple of decades later, say, oh, we'll sell it back to you now at this price. So there is certainly, this has happened and history tends to repeat itself. And, you know, people, people think that things have been so long ago, but the reality is, you know, everyone's so upset about this current war in Ukraine, this happened, you know, less than a hundred years ago in World War II, right? So it's, the precedent is there. And I think people should be aware of that concern.

• 21:48Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. It's, it's fascinating to kind of think through that precedent and what that would mean for an asset that is self-sovereign and, and allows you to be self-sovereign, right? That isn't necessarily as simple as just showing up to someone's house and taking their gold. I don't know what would happen, but, but it is.

• 22:04Speaker 02

  But it is that simple.

• 22:05Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. It, it, well, it just, what would people do, right? Like to some degree? It comes out, you know, could they prove ownership? Could they not? Would the people give it up? Would they not? I don't know. But there's definitely a different variable here than you would have with something like physical gold. And we even saw it in Ukraine, right? Given kind of where you've been living. As the Russian invasion occurred, there was families that were taken to cars, to trains, to buses, everywhere. And they were just saying, get me out of this country. And for many of them, they had to leave behind their businesses, many of their physical assets, and a lot of their personal belongings. And so naturally, some sort of digital asset that can hold value over a long period of time becomes pretty attractive in those scenarios and pretty obvious, I would say.

• 22:47Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 22:49Anthony Pompliano?

  Right. What are you hearing from people on the ground in Ukraine? Are a lot of folks into Bitcoin? Or are they using Bitcoin?

• 22:55Speaker 02

  It's definitely getting there. So for example, there are numerous stores in Kiev, for example, where you can walk into a Bitcoin bank and basically trade right there on the spot. So they have had so many currency struggles and so many economic struggles over the years that I do think their younger generation especially, who has now been through hardships for the last decade, is ready to embrace something like that. And I believe they just signed something into law, making it legal tender. That was right about before the war kicked off, I think. So it'll be interesting to see how it turns out after this is all over. But they are definitely interested in going that route because, like I said, they're saving dollars under their pillowcases. So this is a better option for them.

• 23:33Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, it's fascinating to kind of think through this. Last thing I want to talk to you about is just information on the internet. We were joking right before you came on about this new disinformation governance board in the United States and this whole idea of like somehow there can be an arbiter of truth. I know that you've got pretty unique ideas about the freedoms that maybe Americans have versus what they think they have. What's your general take on this? Like, good idea, bad idea? Is this gonna fall flat on its face? Like, what do you think?

• 24:05Speaker 02

  I think a lot of people are, they've managed to divide people so much that there's gonna be a very large majority, very vocal ones that are gonna fully support it. And then there's gonna be people who are really gonna fight it. So whether that turns ugly, I'm sure it will, at least on the internet, you know, the, the real world is a whole, totally different matter. Um, I think though, with the current regime, there is not much, I don't think anyone respects them, you know, you obviously see the president, he gets up there and people aren't making, it doesn't make any sense. So I don't think people are gonna embrace this too much, but, you know, they've embraced a lot of stuff that they've just been told over the last few years. I don't have a, a whole lot of faith in people's ability to think for themselves, let's put it that way.

• 24:42Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, it's, um, it, it's fascinating to kind of think through this. Um, all right, where can we send somebody to, uh, to find you on the internet or, or find any of the businesses that you've built?

• 24:52Speaker 02

  It's kyletrouble.com. I write emails every day about pretty much all the topics we've discussed, or on Twitter at Kyle Trouble.

• 24:58Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, and, uh, we, we can finish up with just, uh, what is, um, somebody who becomes a sovereign individual? When, when you say like, hey, this is the goal, uh, what, what does that exactly entail as to when you are able to accomplish, you know, A, B, and C, you then are a sovereign individual? There's some things that they need to check off to, to get to that point?

• 25:17Speaker 02

  I would say that when you are at a position where if someone shows up at your house and, you know, you can go to another country and you can be set, whether that means finances, income, um, just a life, that is what that means, is being able to, you know, be sovereign, be independent, not be so, I mean, I hate to say not be loyal to your country, but to have options.

• 25:35Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, it, well, in today's, uh, uh, today's society, there's a, uh, quite a bit of, uh, of questions around where to live, what to do, uh, what is important for, uh, for sovereignty, all, uh, uh, all that stuff. So, uh, kyletrouble.com for anyone who, uh, who wants more of this, uh, or learn more from Kyle, but I appreciate you coming on. Uh, I think people

• 25:55Speaker 02

  Thanks for having me.

• 25:56Anthony Pompliano?

  Learned, uh, learned a ton and, uh, stay safe out there, uh, if, uh, if you go back to Ukraine.

• 26:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, I will. All right, thanks so much for having me, man. Appreciate it. Have a good day.

• 26:04Anthony Pompliano?

  Sounds good, buddy. Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. I really hope you guys enjoyed this one. Make sure you subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player. And if you're looking to try to transition to get a new job in the Bitcoin or crypto industry, we've got you covered. Head over to pompscryptocourse.com. We've developed a curriculum with the top teams across the industry. It's a three-week intensive training program with over 50 events packed into that three-week time period. Go to pompscryptocourse.com to learn more, and I'll meet you guys for the next episode.