#873 Is Tether Actually Backed By Real Money? w/ Paolo Ardoino

Paolo Ardoino is the CTO of Tether and Bitfinex. In this conversation, we discuss some of the controversial rumors around Tether, it's backing to the U. S. dollar, how Tether is audited and how Paolo is working to push the industry forward. ======================= Fundrise is the largest direct-to-investor real estate investment platform out there, giving you the opportunity to achieve upside of an asset class previously reserved for institutions and high net worth individuals. That’s right, Fundrise is making high-end private market real estate investing accessible to everyone via an easy-to-use, automated platform. See for yourself how over 190,000 investors have built a better portfolio with private real estate. It takes just a few minutes to get started with as little as $10. Go to http://Fundrise.com/Pomp today and, for a limited time, get $10 when you place your first investment. That’s Fundrise.com/Pomp ======================= The Pod Pro Cover by Eight Sleep is the most advanced solution on the market for thermoregulation. It pairs dynamic cooling and heating with biometric tracking. Go to https://www.eightsleep.com/Pomp to check out the Pod Pro Cover and save $150 at checkout. Eight Sleep currently ships within the USA, Canada, and the UK. ======================= Since 2018 Copper has been at the forefront of institutional digital asset development. From award winning custody solutions, to creating the first truly off-exchange settlement function, Copper pioneers technology, products, and services, in lock-step with a rapidly changing world. No other infrastructure provider covers as many assets, across as many exchanges, with the speed and security that Copper can offer. To learn how Copper helps the world’s largest institutional investors secure their digital assets, head over to copper.co Copper - the unfair advantage. =======================

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Anthony Pompliano?

  What's up everyone, this is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, simply the best podcast out there. Now let's kick this thing off. Quallo Ardoino is the CTO at both Bitfinex and Tether. In this conversation, we talk about Tether, whether it's backed, how it's audited, what all of the rumors around Tether, what's true and what's not. I really enjoyed this conversation with Quallo and I hope that you do as well. Before we get into this episode though, I want to quickly talk about our sponsors. Today's episode is brought to you by Fundrise. You all know I believe that the best investors both understand and seek out extreme asymmetry. Fundrise is here to help you do just that. It's the largest direct to investor real estate investment platform

• 0:44Anthony Pompliano?

  out there, giving you the opportunity to achieve upside of an asset class previously reserved for institutions and high net worth individuals. That's right, Fundrise is making high-end, private market, real estate investing accessible to everyone via an easy to use automated platform. Its 1 million users already know that the investment with Fundrise is capable of producing strong appreciation returns and income generation while helping to stabilize a diversified portfolio. That's more important now than ever in our inflationary environment. See for yourself how over 190,000 other investors have built a better portfolio with private real estate. It takes just a few minutes to get started with as little as $10. Go to fundrise.com/pomp today and for a limited time, you'll get $10 when you place your first

• 1:26Anthony Pompliano?

  investment. Again, that's fundrise.com/pomp. Go check it out and when you make your first investment, they'll give you $10 on top of it. Fundrise.com/pomp. This episode is brought to you by Eight Sleep. Eight Sleep is the single best product that I have purchased over the last three years. It completely changed my life. I'm not joking, pay attention. The Pod Pro Cover, which goes over your mattress by Eight Sleep, is the most advanced solution on the market for thermal regulation. It pairs dynamic cooling and heating with biometric tracking. Go to eightsleep.com/pomp to check out the Pod Pro Cover and you save $150 at checkout. They currently ship within the United States, Canada and the UK. I told you, it changed my life. It helps me sleep deeper, helps me sleep longer.

• 2:10Anthony Pompliano?

  I feel much more refreshed and I have better energy. You want to know how I have relentless energy every single day? Cause I sleep on an eight sleep. Seriously, go check it out. Eight sleep.com slash pomp today. Today's episode is brought to you by Copper. Since 2018, Copper has been at the forefront of institutional digital asset development. From award-winning custody solutions to creating the first truly off-exchange settlement function. Copper pioneers technology, products and services in lockstep with a rapidly changing world. No other infrastructure provider covers as many assets across as many exchanges with the speed and security that Copper can offer. To learn how Copper helps the world's largest institutional investors secure their digital assets, head over to copper.co.

• 2:53Anthony Pompliano?

  Again, Copper, the unfair advantage. Check them out at copper.co today. All right, let's get in this episode. I hope you guys enjoy this one.

• 3:02Speaker 01

  Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

• 3:25Anthony Pompliano?

  Paulo, you there?

• 3:26Speaker 02

  Yes, I'm here.

• 3:28Anthony Pompliano?

  How are you, my friend?

• 3:29Speaker 02

  I'm good, thank you very much, Pom. What about you?

• 3:32Anthony Pompliano?

  Well, I have a question that's a little out of left field to start with. You've been doing a lot. I know that you hear all the chatter on the internet. You've been pushing for the work in Switzerland. You got Bitfinex, you got Tether, you got a lot of shit going on. One of our sponsors is Eight Sleep and I sleep like a baby now because they make it super cold. What's your sleep schedule? How do you get all this done?

• 3:53Speaker 02

  My sleep schedule is actually terrible. So since I started working in Bitfinex, I, you know, I, I sleep only at one hour chunks per night, like one hour, then I wake up, check the phone, check everything, then go back to sleep and so on. It's like six years. So I'm not the right person to talk about sleep.

• 4:13Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, that's fine. We gotta get you Eight Sleep, make it super cold and then you'll sleep like a baby and then you I solved all my problems.

• 4:20Speaker 02

  I will try that.

• 4:21Anthony Pompliano?

  All right.

• 4:22Speaker 02

  I could try that.

• 4:23Anthony Pompliano?

  Now, let's get to let's get to the hard stuff first. I told you that I'm going to ask you all the questions. I got nine gazillion people messaging me. I got hundreds of people who responded to the tweet yesterday with all these questions. They basically fall down into a couple of different things. Let's first start with Tether and then we'll talk about the work you're doing in Switzerland. And then we're going to talk about Bitfinex itself. But with Tether, the big question everyone wants to know is, is it backed one to one to dollars? And I'll ask it that way in terms of, I think there's a bunch of different ways you could answer. But that's what everyone wants to know is, can I have confidence if I hold Tether that it's actually backed one to one to dollars? How do you respond?

• 4:59Speaker 02

  So the answer is definitely yes. How you know that? So it's it's been it had been in the public. So in 2021, so just a little bit more than one year ago, Tether settled with the New York Journal General. And then later on with the CFTC. So after the settlement, especially the first settlement, Tether started to provide what is actually the current standard for for stablecoins, that is the attestation. So with the attestation, Tether shows that every single USDT, all the Tether tokens are backed 100% by reserves.

• 5:44Speaker 02

  So that happened pretty soon after the settlement with the New York Journal General. And after, you know, any process that is ongoing on a quarterly basis. So on a quarterly basis, Tether is offering these attestations. And even more so, after the first attestation that happened in February 2021, the following one contained another piece of information that at that time, one was offering that was the breakdown reserves. So we went one step further and started to provide the breakdown reserves. So showing how the portfolio was composed, right? So we could have not have done that, but yet we did.

• 6:28Speaker 02

  And then, of course, that raised some questions, especially on the commercial paper side. And then we went one step further and we also provide a breakdown of the ratings of these for service. Right now, it was made public that the vast majority of all commercial papers are actually A2 or rated A2 or better or both, so A2, A1, A8. By, you know, not just by a random guy, but by the Standard Poor's, that is the agency that rates almost everything in this world, including the Treasuries.

• 7:06Speaker 02

  So the point we have been always making is if you trust Standard Poor with the ratings that they provide to all the capacity instruments, you should also rely on this evaluation when it comes to understanding the risk of Tether. Also, we have provided, we have been providing this information also to the New York Journal on a quarterly basis and so on. So, long story short, all the Tether tokens are more than 100% backed. And when I say more than 100% backed, it means that Tether has additional reserves that are kept.

• 7:48Speaker 02

  So all the activities that Tether has been doing over the last years, all the profits have been kept in the company to increase the backing. So that there is an additional buffer, cushion for backing the Tether tokens.

• 8:05Anthony Pompliano?

  Awesome. When I give you dollars and I get Tether back, where do those dollars go? Are they being lent out? Are they being held? Are they being vested in bonds or some types of securities? That's the second big question everyone has is like, what happens to the dollars when they go in? And as a way, I think most people are trying to underwrite.

• 8:23Speaker 02

  Like it, what risks they have. So when someone buys Tether from Tether.io, so you register on the website, go through all the KYC and all these procedures to ensure that you can, you are a good participant for the Tether primary market. Then these dollars go into Tether bank accounts. From there, they will be allocated to the portfolio. So just one important information, right? We talk about the breakdown resource that showed that we had a concentration of commercial papers.

• 9:02Speaker 02

  That also we claimed in six months ago, that given the feedback we got from the community, we would start decreasing the allocation of commercial papers. And in the last six months, the allocation of commercial papers went down 50%. Why I'm saying this? Because asked where the dollars that have been sent to Tether, where they go, right? So they're go in this portfolio that is composed by cash. It will have equivalent to treasuries, commercial papers and so on. So the way we address the risk is through a team of people that have, you know,

• 9:46Speaker 02

  they get some experience in managing portfolios. They also ran a really thorough risk approach. So we, on a weekly basis, we analyze the risk of the portfolio using all the Black Swan events, including the 2008 crisis. And we know that in all these situations, all the Tether will be redeemable. Also, it's important to know, when, again, you ask about risk, it's important to know that we, Tether, never refuse one redemption at any point in time. Even when 2020 was March, I believe that we just recently got the anniversary.

• 10:29Speaker 02

  It was the 12th of March when Donald Trump closed the Eman line. To US, the stock market and also the crypto market started losing ton of value up to 50%. And also at that point in time, we never had an issue in processing any redemption.

• 10:48Anthony Pompliano?

  Can you talk a little bit about what the impact of Tether on the market has been? Obviously, there's tons and tons of people around the world that want to use these new types of payment rails, but they want stable value. So for whatever reason, whether they're right or wrong, they view Bitcoin or Ether or any other cryptocurrency as volatile in US dollar exchange price. And so they want that stable value, which Tether was the first to provide at scale globally. What has been the impact of global adoption here?

• 11:17Speaker 02

  Well, Tether was born in 2014 and was the first stablecoin, right? So nowadays, everyone talks about stablecoins, about CDCs. We are discussing with regulators, with central banks as well. And yet it was created as a simple idea, actually, because the idea of Tether was, let's take the brilliant innovation that was blockchain, that was powering Bitcoin, and apply it to the dollar. So Tether is a dollar on a blockchain. It really sounds simple now. Back in the time when all the exchanges in 2014 were sending back and forth wires and swearing,

• 11:57Speaker 02

  because there were the wires where it are blocked or lost, we're taking like several days to clear. That was a brilliant innovation. And so Tether was born as a way to optimize the trading strategies of crypto traders. Because back in time, that was tougher. In 2013 was the first time Bitcoin price went above $1,000. And we were seeing spread across exchanges that were massive. At some point, there were spreads around 20%. And in any financial industry of respect, you need to ensure one thing that is called arbitrage.

• 12:38Speaker 02

  So the arbitrage activity is the thing that will keep the price of the same asset in line across multiple trading values. But in order to do so, you need to be able Able to move to transfer funds. Um, the two, actually, the two legs of a trading pair like Bitcoin US dollar is composed by two legs, the Bitcoin side and the dollar side, right? So in order to have a proper trading market and a proper arbitrage across multiple trading venues, you have to, um, you have to be able to transfer Bitcoin and dollar at the same speed. In the traditional financial markets, you would, you would send, you know, um, your, your stock, um, holdings and your transferred dollars in, in the same way because, you know, it's a cross custodian transfer.

• 13:24Speaker 02

  But with Bitcoin, it's not the same thing. So you can move Bitcoin at, you know, in 10 minutes from one exchange to another. The average block time for Bitcoin is 10 minutes. But dollars were taken from one day to five days to clear. And, you know, your arbitrage opportunity was, was gone. And arbitrage means basically that you want to sell Bitcoin on the exchange where the price is higher and then move back the dollars that you're earning that way to the exchange where the price is lower. And then buy Bitcoin with those and transfer Bitcoin way back to the exchange where the price is higher. So you do this back and forth with, with important masses. And then you keep the price in line of, of a crossover exchanges, right? And Tether kept, um, kept growing due to this, uh, this interest because, you know, we,

• 14:07Speaker 02

  Tether went a little bit flat between 2014 and 2016. But then in 2016, exchanges like OKYAX and then OKCOIN, um, actually, then eventually UOB and then I recall Polonix was actually the, the biggest exchange at that time that started to lease Tether or all their pairs, all the crypto pairs, all the new ICOs against, uh, USDT. And then, uh, BitcoinX had the same thing. So we started to see enormous arbitrage, enormous arbitrage opportunities that were eaten up by, you know, all the new professional. trading firms that were coming to crypto and they were all starting to use Tether. And now today, Tether is being traded across almost every single exchange. I would say every single exchange in this world.

• 14:53Speaker 02

  We have seen recently in the last year or so that also Coinbase started to to accept the Tether and allow a type of trading. So Tether started as a simple instrument, a simple tool for traders to optimize their trading activity, to allow arbitrage. But now, in the last two, three years, has been established as a cross-border payment solution, as a remittances solution, as a, you know, a micro payment solution. When with the growth of the adoption of different blockchains, especially ones with lower fees, Tether is more and more used as an instrument for for fast payments. And of course, is also considered an instrument of freedom.

• 15:38Speaker 02

  We are seeing that with also the in the been accepted in Ukraine by officially by the Ukrainian government and also in the Democratic Party, the Democratic movement in Myanmar. They claimed they they suggested, they said, they claimed that Tether was for them a legal tender. So it is, of course, is spreading in many different directions. Really, honestly, many more directions that we originally mentioned.

• 16:07Anthony Pompliano?

  When you start to think about kind of moving forward here, CBDCs are coming from various governments. Is that something that would be competitive with Tether? Could Tether be adopted by a country? How do you think about the way that CBDCs interact with Tether in the future?

• 16:29Speaker 02

  So this is one of the most interesting questions because of course, the first thought that people have is CBDCs could kill private stable coins, right? Privately issued stable coins like Tether, like USDC. I don't think it's the case. So first of all, Tether is, or privately issued stablecoins are the ones that are running on public blockchains. So I doubt that the Central European Bank would issue Ethereum or Tron or Algorand directly. So privately issued stablecoins are the ones that would rock potentially CBDCs and issue on public blockchains.

• 17:12Speaker 02

  But also, I come from the traditional banking world, right? Before joining crypto, I spent my time in working in London, building software for banks, hedge funds and custodians and so on. And the reality of things is that the entire technology that runs the traditional financial world is terrible, is outdated. And it runs on a technology that was built 30 years ago and is full of rubber and bands. Now, I think that one of the most interesting things and innovation that CBDCs could bring is actually finally replacing the interbanking settlement layer

• 17:55Speaker 02

  that is, again, has been patched, spanned in a really complicated way for so many years. That could be replaced by a blockchain. The beauty of a blockchain from a technological point of view is that everyone is looking at the very same thing, right? You look, I look at balance, at the number, I'm synchronized with blockchain, with node. I see a balance, you see the very same balance, right? So that would solve many of the issues of the reconciliation issues that banks have, as well as will reduce dramatically the cost of maintenance of all the technological infrastructure of these central banks and all the banking systems, all the small, medium sized and top tier banks they have.

• 18:39Speaker 02

  So it will, in a certain way, it will reduce the cost of banking dramatically, just switching the transport layer for money, for traditional money. So to summarize, I don't think that there will be, CBDCs are in direct competition with privately issued stablecoins. They can definitely push.

• 19:00Speaker 03

  Joe, what questions you got? And my question would just be around the adoption of Tether and Bitcoin in general. Obviously, we saw with El Salvador, Bitcoin has made legal tender last year. I know that you were a huge part of doing a similar process in Switzerland. What does success look like for you there? Is it a certain number of transactions done with crypto? Is it something else? Is it startups funded? Just talk through a little bit of kind of how you're measuring success.

• 19:29Speaker 02

  So I think that success for me is, first of all, awareness and education. So is ensuring that the majority of the people in the country or the city, they know that they have a choice. So also, I can talk about Switzerland. So what is being done in Switzerland is actually setting up a process for which and a set of funds for which we can provide technological and legal support to all the small, medium and big businesses in the area so that no one gets left out.

• 20:11Speaker 02

  So that is the business that can decide, the business owner can decide whether or not they will accept crypto, Bitcoin, Tether and so on. And the beauty of it is that it's all about freedom. So I don't think that you should force people to accept a technology that they don't understand or they don't want. What I like about the approach that we are taking is that is the education first. We are also providing funding for five other scholarships in the three universities in the area to provide enough education also to young minds and kids to learn about the technology and then growing

• 20:55Speaker 02

  and helping them, so and pushing them to help on the businesses on the territory to understand the technology as well and understand the impact that this technology has had. First of all, is again a better transfer layer for money. That will reduce also the cost, not just on a global scale, like we were talking about CBTCs, but also on a local scale. And also, in my opinion, one of the most interesting things is the opportunity. Right now, everyone, many countries and potential cities are talking about supporting Bitcoin. But no one actually has, is developing a framework for this to happen. So the plan B in Switzerland was actually this framework, right?

• 21:35Speaker 02

  So a series of clear steps to bring adoption to the local community. Because after the announcement, after the announcement we made on the 3rd of March, you can imagine like a grocery in Lugano scratching his head and the owner of such grocery is scratching his head, thinking, "Okay, it's all nice, it's all sounds good, but how, how I can connect, how can I accept Bitcoin? And moreover, how I can accept Bitcoin and integrate that with our, with my own point of sale or with my accounting software? So it's not just about accepting Bitcoin, but accepting Bitcoin in a transparent, in a way

• 22:18Speaker 02

  that will make comfortable business owners to integrate in their existing payment flows. Because they might have employees, they have to pay these employees, they need to understand the effects risk and so on. So it is about education and it is about also providing funding. Because we, I believe that one of the best experiments that someone can do is to provide enough funding to allow business owners to do this job without any financial risk. So they can, instead of asking them to invest in the technological resources to accept Bitcoin payments, we want to cover that angle for them.

• 23:00Speaker 02

  So that we can see on a global scale how a city could potentially benefit from the adoption of Bitcoin. So, you know, also we All know that, first of all, the the funding that we are putting together across multiple companies is an important amount of money. At the same time, you know, is is money that, you know, with a blink of an eye would flow in Chiba or some other, you know, other token, new token. So there is no reason why companies like us and in other places maybe could voting a small part of their revenues to help local businesses and cities to start adopting Bitcoin. So that is our angle, right?

• 23:43Speaker 02

  So, you know, we, we have two successful companies. If you, if we are not actually trying to put the money we earn at, you know, to keep sustaining the, the, the industry that helped us to succeed, then, you know, it, it wouldn't be nice. It would, it would be all being in for the money and not for the technology. And, you know, many says that they are in for the technology, but only when you actually dedicate yourself to achieving the goal and, you know, you're reinvesting in the technology, you can actually say that.

• 24:13Speaker 02

  So when it comes to, and I believe that there is an interesting comparison between Switzerland and El Salvador, because Switzerland is going, is, is looking at the integration and support of, of, of Bitcoin differently from, from El Salvador, right? Lugano is a rich city, so they would, they would support, would support Bitcoin and Tether because of the financial opportunities that could derive from that. For example, increased tourism. We know that our industry, for, for better or worse, is, is a religious industry. So you have people, there is, there are tribes. So these people, they're also, myself, right?

• 24:55Speaker 02

  I would like to be able to spend directly Bitcoin or Tether in, in a, in a place. So I would more go to a place, to a hotel more gladly, but know that I have, I can spend, I can spend Bitcoin. And like me, there are a ton of other people. And that could be ideally in, in Europe and in many other, and in all the other continents. So I believe that trying to attract these, the people, the, the crypto folks that want to, to spend first in crypto, remain in crypto, like a circular economy in crypto, then that could dramatically change also the tourism landscape.

• 25:32Speaker 02

  of a small city like Lugano. And back to the comparison with El Salvador, that is the other interesting part, right? El Salvador is a country that is not rich, right? So they are actually, they are looking at Bitcoin as an opportunity to have actually a bank account, right? So many of the people, of the citizens in El Salvador, they don't have a bank account. So they are actually using Bitcoin to, as a first necessity, to be connected to the financial system, to have access to financial services. So the beauty of it for me is that we have two stories. One is a rich city and the other is not a rich country.

• 26:13Speaker 02

  And they are both looking at Bitcoin as, for potential, for potential growth of their, you know, better life, local growth of local businesses. And so this to say finally that Bitcoin, the beauty of it is that Bitcoin is for everyone.

• 26:28Speaker 04

  John, what do you got for us? Paulo, Tether is a clear leader in the stablecoin space. Its market cap is around $80 billion. Why do you think, or what has led to Tether's success? And then in regards to the other stablecoins, are they more competing with Tether to be the leader? Or are they complementary to Tether?

• 26:45Speaker 02

  So I think that Tether, you know, one of the things that I'm more proud about Tether, and maybe I shouldn't say that, but is the fact that for a long time, we didn't have any, any marketing team. So everything that's been achieved, right? We are seeing the enormous growth of Tether in Turkey, Venezuela, in Argentina, and all these, this country where, where, you know, the inflation is high, is the success is not due to our merits, but just because Tether created a usable tool. So that's, that's kind of making me proud because, you know, it's, one thing is getting success if you are, if you are investing a ton of money in marketing.

• 27:29Speaker 02

  Another thing that I believe is more beautiful, if you are getting to success, if you are actually, if you are just because your product is useful. Of course, now we are, as you might have seen, you are, we are improving communication and we have. We are forming a really strong team. But the success of Tether has been, is due just to the fact it's like a super simple product. It's useful to many people. And our approach has not been focusing on rich countries, actually. It has been starting from, you know, the last, right? So in general, you know, Bitcoin and Tether and stablecoins,

• 28:09Speaker 02

  for me are products for the people that, for all those people that don't have access to a bank account, right? So not because, there are more than 2 billion people that don't have access to a bank account, not just because, not because they are, you know, maybe bad people. It's just because they are too poor to have a bank account. And that is quite sad, right? Because just even say that someone is not rich enough and does not even arrive to the threshold, to the bar, to have his bank account open. That's quite sad. And I believe that Bitcoin and Tether are helping to fix that. First of all, also, we always thought that Tether as not a replacement for Bitcoin. So we would never pretend that.

• 28:54Speaker 02

  Tether is a synthesized stablecoin, it represents a dollar, and is like a mere servant of Bitcoin. It's the thing that is helping the onboarding of fiat money into our industry. It will be this smoothing, this onboarding. And the realization of that, the fact that we are not trying to replace Bitcoin with a stablecoin, but actually, we plan, we are, our aim is to be complementary to Bitcoin, is I believe what is driving adoption and driving trust in our community and so on. It's like we are quite humble in that sense. And the fact that we are, again, we are concentrated, we are focusing on all our energies

• 29:39Speaker 02

  in the emerging markets, because they are the ones that That need more help. So of course, we as Tether, we are not we are not servicing US customers. If you are US person, you cannot, you know, we you cannot buy Tethers from Tether, Toto. And so that's, you know, tell us a lot about our our strategy. It's, you know, we it's better for us to leave the US market to US-based stablecoins like USDC, there is Paxos, and some other that I'm forgetting. And, you know, we want just to focus on the rest of the world that needs more our help.

• 30:16Anthony Pompliano?

  Paulo, before we let you go, what's your message to everyone in terms of the work you're doing in Switzerland, Tether, Bitfinex, etc. If you had to sum up in one sentence, like, what is your goal in the Bitcoin and cryptocurrency world?

• 30:30Speaker 02

  I think that everyone can make the difference. I mean, I know that it sounds obvious and, yeah, it sounds obvious. But what we wanted to do in El Salvador or any Switzerland is is trying to help from a smaller scale, right? It's really harder to orange peel a huge nation and powerful nation like like US. I know that there are many people that are also succeeding in getting the Bitcoin world into the into the into US and at any level, right? But I believe that there are many of us that have connections with small cities, with the administration of small cities. And every little bit, every every drop in the ocean helps, right?

• 31:14Speaker 02

  So if we all focus to in indication, in directing resources that can be, you know, just time resources, financial resources if possible, and putting maybe in connection players like players like ourselves, but many others in the in the crypto industry, to provide help, to provide financing to, you know, to cities that want to explore the adoption of this new financial system, better financial system for my, in my opinion, that that will

• 31:44Anthony Pompliano?

  They would matter a lot. It's amazing answer. Where can we send people to find you on the internet before we let you go? On Twitter at Paulo Ardoino. Thank you very much for having me today. You killed it, my friend. Please keep pushing the pace. I think you're doing fantastic work. Obviously, the results speak for themselves and we'll definitely have you back on again in the future. Thank you so much. Thank you, guys. All right, everybody. Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. I really hope you guys enjoyed this one. Make sure you subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player. And if you're looking to try to transition to get a new job in the Bitcoin or crypto industry, we've got you covered. Head over to pompscryptocourse.com. We've developed a curriculum with the top teams across the industry.

• 32:27Anthony Pompliano?

  It's a three-week intensive training program with over 50 events packed into that three-week time period. Go to pompscryptocourse.com to learn more and I'll meet you guys for the next episode.