#688 The Ground Truth About BItcoin w/ Isaiah Jackson

Isaiah Jackson is the author of the best selling book “Bitcoin and Black America.” He is one of the most underrated people in the Bitcoin ecosystem and is constantly educating one of the most important communities for mainstream adoption. In this conversation, we discuss bitcoin, inflation, wealth inequality, access to financial services, how young kids are making $100,000 in months, and why Isaiah thinks bitcoin is going to $250,000 this year. ======================= If you haven’t started building your crypto portfolio on Okcoin, there’s no better time. They’re one of the fastest growing global exchanges around and they have some promotions happening right now to help even more people be part of the future of finance. If you have an account already, you can split $100 in BTC with a friend when you invite them to sign up for Okcoin if they buy $100 of crypto in the first month. The more friends who sign up and buy, the more BTC you get. And I always recommend dollar-cost averaging as a way for investors to have more control over their average price when building their portfolio. Now you can automate dollar-cost averaging with completely fee-free daily, weekly, or monthly recurring buys on Okcoin until November 1. That’s no fees at all on your purchases until the holidays. Get started on the web or on their new super easy-to-use app at okcoin.com/pomp ======================= Cryptocurrencies offer boundless potential, but who will protect yours? Arculus is the crypto cold-storage wallet that combines the world’s strongest security protocols with an easy-to-manage app. Unlike other storage solutions that are less secure and more difficult to use, Arculus doesn’t compromise security or usability. You can store, swap, and send your crypto all with a simple tap of your Arculus Key™ card. And with no cables and no USB connections, you’re insulated from the thousands of hackers online trying to get at all the digital assets people store in the cloud. So that the only person with access to your crypto... is you. Order the safer, simpler, smarter crypto cold storage solution at getarculus.com today. ======================= AppSumo is the leading digital marketplace for entrepreneurs, and a great way to get your product in front of 1M+ entrepreneurs, founders, and small businesses. AppSumo is giving away their entire $1 million Black Friday marketing budget to creators. If you have an ebook, online course, template, or any other digital product — this is for you. List your product on AppSumo between September 15th - November 17th and the first 400 offers to go live will receive $1,000, the next 2,000 to list a product and go live get $250. And everyone who lists gets entered to be one of 10 lucky winners of $10k! Go to AppSumo.com/pomp to list your product today and cash in on this amazing deal.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Anthony Pompliano?

  What's up everyone, this is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, simply the best podcast out there. Now let's kick this thing off. Isaiah Jackson is the author of the bestselling book Bitcoin in Black America. He's one of the most underrated people in the Bitcoin ecosystem and is constantly educating one of the most important communities for mainstream adoption. In this conversation, we discuss Bitcoin, inflation, wealth inequality, access to financial services, how young kids are making $100,000 in months, and why Isaiah thinks Bitcoin is going to $250,000 this year. I really enjoyed this conversation with Isaiah, and I hope you do as well. Before we get into this episode, though, I want to quickly talk about our sponsors. First up is OKCoin. If you haven't started building your crypto portfolio on OKCoin, there's no better

• 0:46Anthony Pompliano?

  time. They're one of the fastest growing global exchanges around, and they have some promotions happening right now to help even more people be part of the future of finance. If you have an account already, you can split $100 in Bitcoin with a friend when you invite them to sign up for OKCoin if they buy $100 of crypto in the first month. The more friends who sign up and buy, the more Bitcoin you get. And I always recommend dollar-cost averaging as a way for investors to have more control over their average price when building their portfolio in any asset class. Now you can automate dollar-cost averaging with completely fee-free daily, weekly, or monthly recurring buys on OKCoin until November 1st. That's right, there's no fees at all on your purchases until the holidays. Get started on the web

• 1:25Anthony Pompliano?

  or on their new super easy-to-use app at OKCoin.com/Pomp. Again, OKCoin.com/Pomp. Go check them out and let me know what you think. No fees on all recurring buys until November 1st. Next up is Arculus. Cryptocurrencies offer boundless potential, but who will protect yours? Arculus is the crypto cold storage wallet that combines the world's strongest security protocols with an easy-to-manage app. Unlike other storage solutions that are less secure and more difficult to use, Arculus doesn't compromise security or usability. You can store, swap, and send your crypto all with a simple tap of your Arculus key card. And with no cables and no USB connections, you're insulated from the thousands of hackers online trying to get it all at your digital assets that people store in the cloud.

• 2:10Anthony Pompliano?

  So that the only person with access to your crypto is you. Order the safer, simpler, smarter crypto and cold storage solution at getarculus.com today. Again, getarculus.com today. Go check out their security solution, getarculus.com and do it today. Last but not least is AppSumo. AppSumo is the leading digital marketplace for entrepreneurs and a great way to get your product in front of one plus million entrepreneurs, founders and small businesses. AppSumo is giving away their entire $1 million Black Friday marketing budget to creators. If you have an ebook, an online course, a template, or any other digital product, this is for you. You can list your product on AppSumo between September 15th and November 17th.

• 2:51Anthony Pompliano?

  And the first 400 people to do it offers to go live will receive $1,000. The next 2,000 to list their product and go live will get 250 bucks. And everyone who lists gets entered to be one of 10 lucky winners of $10,000. If you want to be entered to win, or you got a digital product to sell, go to appsumo.com/pomp to list that product today and cash in on this amazing deal. Appsumo.com/pomp. Go check it out or click on the link in the description. All right, let's get into this episode with Isaiah. I hope you guys enjoyed this one.

• 3:23Speaker 01

  Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

• 3:46Anthony Pompliano?

  We've got Isaiah here with me. What's up, man?

• 3:48Speaker 02

  Not too much, brother. Glad to be here, man.

• 3:50Anthony Pompliano?

  So I want to settle a debate right out of the gate. John earlier, so I'm going to check his swag, see who's swaggy or John, who wins?

• 3:57Speaker 01

  It's a tie.

• 4:00Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, I'll be the tiebreaker. Isaiah wins.

• 4:03Speaker 02

  Oh, good.

• 4:04Anthony Pompliano?

  What uh, what's been going on, man?

• 4:05Speaker 02

  Oh, man, nothing much. Traveling, the US and international book tour stuff, so man, just getting out here and making sure people get the information.

• 4:12Anthony Pompliano?

  So tell us, uh, the first book went very well. Now you've got the second book that's on pre-sale, so Bitcoin Black America. Just walk through the people who haven't read it yet, like what the main premise is.

• 4:21Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. It just, uh, basically shows the synergy between Bitcoin being, you know, group economics based. We don't even need to know each other and we were working towards the same goal. And I feel like in the black community, we can do the same thing. Group economics, work together, use Bitcoin as a savings account, use it as, uh, eventually, uh, currency and sort of move away from the current banking system that doesn't give a shit about us. Like, I don't understand why we try to appeal to people that don't care about us. Like, the banking industry has messed us all over, so, uh, I feel like in the black community, we can move away, move towards Bitcoin, better, better future in, in that lane, I think.

• 4:54Anthony Pompliano?

  So you and I have talked about this a bunch, but I don't think people realize how bad, uh, just not even black people, white people, but also people who live in certain communities. Uh, and also certain types of banks definitely treat people very differently as well. And one of the things that is really interesting is, uh, you literally can walk in a bank, you can apply for a mortgage, you can apply for a loan or whatever. And a lot of times people just say yes or no, and then it'll tell you why, right? And so what do you think is like the, uh, the promise of Bitcoin as it gets adopted by people who have been shunned by a legacy banking system? Is it just simply, hey, you're outside their system now and so they can't screw with you?

• 5:28Speaker 02

  Well, that's one thing, but outside of that, it is, can't be taken away from you. And we have a long history of the wealth that our community has built, just snatched away either through violence or whatever, redlining through different mechanisms. But for once, you can actually own your wealth. This doesn't happen, you know, every, you know, just every day. This is something, this is a once in a lifetime opportunity to actually own your wealth, pass it down to the next generation. And nobody can take it from you, especially a government that really doesn't have your best interest. So, yeah, it, it has a lot of promises to it. Not only that, it also gives you, in my opinion, a change of how you think. Uh, it changes your way of thinking. You start digging deeper. You go down the wormhole. I mean, you start getting into history. You can start getting into cryptography, economics. I mean, it, it's crazy, the wormhole you go down, just entering Bitcoin.

• 6:12Speaker 02

  So all of that is is positive.

• 6:14Anthony Pompliano?

  So I want to talk about a couple of current events and just kind of get your general thoughts on it. So first, maybe let's start with, uh, there was a bank executive recently, Jamie Dimon, who said Bitcoin is worthless. What's your general take from like the incumbents who still are kind of holding out or saying, hey, look, I don't want to participate?

• 6:28Speaker 02

  Oh, man, well, dinosaur Diamond, as I call him, the biggest dinosaur in the industry. He's either he's either incompetent or in on it. There is no other two ways. Well, he either really doesn't understand it or because anybody that says the phrase, the algorithms, you don't know what you're talking about.

• 6:45Speaker 02

  The algorithms. But again, he, uh, oh, he's in on it, meaning he has a large amount of Bitcoin or a plan for it. And he might have tried to manipulate the price like he did in 2017, drive it down a bit, get scoop up some more cheap and then get it for itself. So I think Diamond is just like the other people. They have a script. They have people behind them telling what to say. To me, most of these bankers aren't even that powerful. It's the person behind them that's telling them, go out here and say this, good, good old boy, go out there. To me, it's like, let it just go out and say whatever message is told to them. So I don't really take what they say at full, full scale. I think people are ignoring it now. People don't care anymore.

• 7:18Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, Bitcoin was up when he said it.

• 7:19Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 7:19Anthony Pompliano?

  Right?

• 7:20Speaker 02

  Diamond said that in 2017 and went down, what, 30% in one day?

• 7:23Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 7:24Speaker 02

  Doesn't matter now.

• 7:24Anthony Pompliano?

  So when you think about him, he's, uh, still holding out. But then there's a bunch of people who, from the first time I met you till now, they're all in now, right? Now they're all buying, they're talking about it, they're ready to rock and roll. They're like, hey, I got laser eyes. I mean, the whole thing. What do you, what's your take in terms of the people from the legacy world that now have kind of capitulated and actually started to participate?

• 7:43Speaker 02

  They don't have a choice.

• 7:45Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay, explain.

• 7:45Speaker 02

  I've always told people this, even years ago, that it doesn't matter what they say now. At some point, you have to go with demand. If you're an actual business person and you want to make money in business, you have to go with demand. Demand is turning towards, we want Bitcoin. Even institutional investors who may not understand it, they're like, well, this is digital gold and gold is outdated. Down what 7% this year, down 2% over the last 10 years? Why am I in gold? I'm going to Bitcoin. So yeah, I think a lot of these people that didn't understand it, don't get it. They see where we're going, so they don't have a choice. I mean, everybody's going to capitulate at some point.

• 8:15Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 8:16Speaker 02

  Even countries. I mean, El Salvador is the first, but I mean, we got a long way to go. A lot of countries will have to as well.

• 8:21Anthony Pompliano?

  What do you think about the way that El Salvador is doing it? Like in terms of giving out the wallet, then paying people, getting the ATMs in place? Like, it seems like when they first made the plans, my read on it was a lot of people like, ah, maybe. Like, we had a lot of people make promises.

• 8:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 8:35Anthony Pompliano?

  But it now seems like they're executing on this.

• 8:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, I love the fact that, of course, the Chivo Wallet that they're using, they airdropped it to everybody. Everybody got $30 free Bitcoin and it's up, so everybody made money who kept it. Some people have a problem with the control that Bukele is trying to put on them. But I always tell people, this is the first time that it's ever happened. So it's going to be mistakes. There's going to be people that protest, like you have a few people, which I think is kind of a sham. If you ever read the book, Confessions of an Economic Hitman, these are the exact same tactics. It's literally, we have this group of older people like, oh yeah, we're protesting against Bitcoin. And then some guy on TV, he was like, he forgot the script and they were like, no, no, no, say this.

• 9:13Speaker 02

  He got these, oh, you gave him what, 50 bucks a piece, told him to protest? They're knocking over ATMs. That's, I think that's all bollocks at this point. I think Bukele is trying his best and the fact that he's doing volcanic mining on top of that is amazing. So we're finding new ways to use renewable energy on top of his Bitcoin strategy. So it's the first time it's happened. First iteration is always going to have some mistakes. But I think from here on out, people will learn from his mistakes and then they'll, like Brazil, they're looking at putting into their, their economy is legal tender. So I think it'll be better that way.

• 9:42Anthony Pompliano?

  Are there other countries that you think are going to start to adopt this as well?

• 9:45Speaker 02

  Yes, it's already talks, like I said, Brazil, Uruguay, Paraguay, Cuba, any country I think that gets sanctioned, Venezuela, Iran, any of these countries, they're probably going to look towards Bitcoin in some capacity. And then I think other countries, because of demand, won't have a choice. I think their citizens will want it and if inflation keeps going the way it's going, 5.4% reported today? Jesus Christ, we are definitely going to have countries buying Bitcoin because bonds are worthless. I mean, what else? Well, you have to save your country's wealth if you're, you know, a smaller country. So I can definitely see that, especially in the Caribbean area, too.

• 10:19Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. So you've been on this kind of world tour for the book and you talked to a lot of people. What is their understanding of inflation? So 5.4% CPI, 4% core. How many people do you talk to that actually understand what inflation is?

• 10:32Speaker 02

  Uh, probably 10% actually get what inflation is and how it's affected them until you show them just simple examples like, hey, your father could work one job and they could have a house, two cars, four kids, whatever. Now you got two people with jobs, you can't even afford an apartment because money is worth less now. Prices only go up because the money is debased literally on purpose. So, uh, once you kind of explain that, people are like, yeah, I get that. It's just they don't see it in their face. It's inflation is very slow. It takes a long time for inflation to show itself. So, you know, most people don't have that patience, but when you take them back, you're like, yeah, in the sixties, people could, could do this. Why can't we do it now? Inflation. So it, it works explaining it to them that way, but most people have no clue. They don't realize their money is literally being stolen through inflation.

• 11:16Anthony Pompliano?

  And when you describe the inflation to them, do they change their behavior?

• 11:19Speaker 02

  A lot of times, not right at the beginning, but they, it's in their mind. So they start doing things to save, getting the assets. Of course, getting into Bitcoin. So they take the action eventually, but not always at first because it's kind of a shock. If your whole life, you're like, oh yeah, I just make money and then I go spend it, right? And then when somebody's like, yeah, the money you make isn't worth anything. You know, 10 years from now, if you don't have assets to put it into. So I think they, they take that and then run with it from there.

• 11:44Anthony Pompliano?

  And how much of it's like an investor psychology thing? Like, hey, my whole life I was told save, save, save, save, you know, spend less than I make. Like that is the core, you know, kind of value proposition of like what to do from a personal finance standpoint. It's just if you're a saver, then you can actually get to a point where you're, you're wealthy, right? You can literally save yourself to wealth. Now all of a sudden that's probably not true with inflation, you know, ravaging on, et cetera. So now people have to become investors. And so that switch is actually a pretty big switch, right? Like basically, save as much as you can versus now know, actually you're going to spend, but you're going to spend it on assets versus some sort of consumptive, uh, action. Do you find that to be like a hard transition for people?

• 12:21Speaker 02

  Uh, to an extent, I think some. People understand that I should be doing something with this money. But I think once you start seeing people like Gary Gensler say, hey, save five bucks a week at eight percent and you can have one hundred and thirty K when you're sixty. And people are like, that's what it takes to save? Oh, that's bullshit. I'm going, definitely going the other way. I'm going to put it in assets. And I think people understand they need that. Uh, they just don't know how. And once you kind of explain it, I think people will start to see that's what rich people have known all along. You have to have your money in assets to beat inflation so that your money does last long term.

• 12:50Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, it almost feels like in some way saving is defensive and investing is offensive. And you've really got to, once you convince people like, hey, you gotta go on offense here, then all of a sudden it becomes easier for them to do.

• 13:01Speaker 02

  Exactly. Yeah. And I had a mentor that told me, he said, hey, every dollar that I have is a worker. Every dollar should be working for you right now. There's no, nobody in my house doesn't have a job. There's, there's no lazy people. So, uh, even my money works for me. So I think, uh, you know, some people are so defensive with their, their money because they're scared. Once you take that away, usually through education, usually through seeing it over and over, that scared part goes away and they can get over it and, you know, invest in assets from there. I just think the people that still believe in saving, I mean, just look at the rates, what is it? Point zero two percent or something crazy? It's, it doesn't do anything. So people, uh, they see it, they just don't know how to get out of it.

• 13:37Anthony Pompliano?

  The math that always I think opens people's eyes is the national savings rate in a savings account or in like a, a deposit account is point oh three percent. And inflation is five point four percent, which means that they are devaluing the currency at five point four percent over a year over year. But they will pay you point oh three percent to hold it. So on a net basis, you lose over five percent of your purchasing power. Every single year of your money is just sitting in the bank.

• 14:06Speaker 02

  Yes, and going up. I think inflation will actually hit the double digits at some point if we keep going this way. And I think they're kind of hiding the stats to try and cook the books a little bit so people don't get scared. Cause as soon as people see that ten percent inflation, it's, I mean, it's gonna be panic. So I just think it's worse than it actually is right now. So you should be vigilant at this point. Cause like you said, they're stealing five percent of your money every year.

• 14:26Anthony Pompliano?

  We definitely think they're cooking the books. We talked about it earlier today. If you look at things like housing, energy, food, all that stuff's up big. And then the things that aren't up big are frankly, things that most people don't interact with on a daily basis. And so when you see that the people who are in positions of influence or power say things like, oh, there's an official inflation rate. And then they mentioned that the unofficial inflation and you're like, wait, wait, hold on a second. Like if we're going to acknowledge the unofficial, maybe we should actually be presenting both numbers in these reports. But they only report the official one, which and I understand why they do it. And we always go back and forth on, do they actually believe what they're reporting? And I think to some degree, they do believe, hey, based on the way that we calculate this is the right number.

• 15:10Anthony Pompliano?

  It's just, that's not necessarily representative of what the everyday American experience is on a day to day basis, right?

• 15:15Speaker 02

  Bob, you can't give people real information.

• 15:19Speaker 02

  We're all the sheep. You're supposed to just give us a little bit to pacify us and then let it go. Can't give us real information because it would be a revolution tomorrow. I forgot who quoted that. But if you actually knew what was going on, be a revolution in the morning. So of course they're going to put those, those stats out. They're never going to tell you how bad it really is. And like you said, commodities are up 60, 70, 80%, but inflation is up five. Are you serious? So it is to me, a concerted effort to make sure we're not scared. But I think you should, should be a little bit, just a little bit if you're not prepared.

• 15:46Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. And, and part of I guess what really is interesting to me is so the, we have the official numbers. But also is when you start looking at employment, like employment's over, or unemployment's over 5%, but there's over 11 million open jobs right now. So how is it that we have all these people who don't have jobs, but all these open roles? And we can't figure out how to put them together, right? And it just feels like that, like there's a huge disconnect.

• 16:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, everybody's at home trading crypto. Nobody wants to go back to work. That is crazy. I have noticed a lot of hiring signs. I've noticed a lot of new people working at a lot of places that I've used to frequent. It's a lot of new employees. So it is a, it's a weird dynamic right now where it's like, nobody wants to work, but jobs are asking people to come, but they don't want to increase pay or they don't have really any incentives. I mean, they do a little bit, like I saw, I think it was McDonald's, they increased it from like 15 to $17, but it's like, all right, thanks. But that's not enough to convince me. Leave the comfort of whatever people are doing right now. So I think, man, this is so weird time to be living in. That's what I'll say, Paul. It's it's just weird to see this play out right in front of our eyes to be alive to see this.

• 16:47Speaker 02

  Because it is sort of the game theory of Bitcoin is that, you know, long term, if there is problems with your economy. And people need something to run to, businesses will use Bitcoin instead. Like if our money starts getting inflated out the waters, like, well, I use Bitcoin instead. That's kind of the hyper Bitcoinization thing. And then if people aren't working, it's going to be harder to get people to work if they're in Bitcoin and then they make Bitcoin goes to 200,000, 500,000. You know what I mean? It's it's a weird dynamic. So it's it'll be interesting to see it play out.

• 17:14Anthony Pompliano?

  One of the things that blew my mind, probably the most ridiculous statistic we've ever uncovered is that 80% of American workers get paid more than $15 an hour. Because the the the narrative, the the kind of mainstream coverage is, oh, we have to raise the minimum wage to 15 bucks. And the free market essentially has already established $15 an hour is the kind of going rate. And so when you see, as you mentioned, McDonald's going from 15 to 17 dollars, it feels in some weird way that people are thinking all the time. Like John always talks about his friends, they don't invest in anything unless they think it's going up 10x, right? Which again, like, like, there's, there's one aspect of like, they're probably not wrong, right? Of like, if you're young and you can buy assets and you hold them for long enough, like, you probably can get those types of returns over a long period of time.

• 17:58Anthony Pompliano?

  But they're not looking for it over a long period of time, looking for a short period of time. So there's a psychological impact to just everything goes up. But if you could literally take a dollar and put it in something that you think, whether it actually happens or not, goes up 10x. What's the difference between 15 and 17 dollars? Like, there there almost is no difference in terms of trying to to get you to incentivize to come and actually work, right?

• 18:17Speaker 02

  Absolutely. And that's a problem they're gonna have to deal with because a lot of younger people are starting to see that. I mean, we have the whole NFT craze right now. I know a 15 year old with $100,000. You really think you're gonna get him to work at McDonald's right now?

• 18:28Anthony Pompliano?

  No. He might buy McDonald's.

• 18:30Speaker 02

  Exactly. That's what I'm saying. So it's it's sort of a weird dynamic. I'm seeing these younger people getting into a game earlier than their, you know, parents, their grandparents and there is money behind it. It's not like other technology where, oh, if you had a cell phone first, whatever, you taught your parents how to use their cell phones. Now it's like, no, I'm. Teach my parents how to make more money. I make more than them. So it's sort of weird, but it is crazy to see things change.

• 18:52Anthony Pompliano?

  So take like a 15 year old like that. Is that something where they just play on the internet? They see stuff they learn themselves? Or somebody, you know, a friend, a family friend, whatever, saying to them, hey, look, you should go do this. You're a young person. You understand? Like, how do they get into it, you think?

• 19:05Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Well, that particular 15 year old I'm talking about, I taught his mom at a seminar about Bitcoin. She brought him to the next one, talking about Bitcoin, and he just would call me, text me every now and then, like, what should I do? Blah, blah, blah. Introducing the NFTs and he went crazy because that was more his creative side and he figured it out. A lot of the drops and things that go with that. And yeah, he's sitting at about 100 K worth of crypto right now. And then as far as Bitcoin, our only argument is always tell them, man, you should stick with Bitcoin, blah, blah, blah. You know how kids are. It's like, no, no, I'm getting Chiba. I'm getting whatever.

• 19:34Anthony Pompliano?

  I like the dog. I like the dog.

• 19:35Speaker 02

  Whatever's new out there. But like you said, your friends don't invest unless it's a 10x. That's the same kind of mindset he has. Why not gamble? I'm 15. Like, what am I really losing at this point? I have way more than my peers. So, hey, more power to them.

• 19:47Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. When you talk to like a 15 year old like that, how much of it is around they're trying to actually learn investing and they're kind of exploring markets? Versus they're actually just saying, hey, look, I want to make money because I want to go and buy other stuff. Like, are they doing it to build a portfolio? Or are they doing it so they can go buy, you know, he's going to go buy a car or something?

• 20:03Speaker 02

  It's usually the latter, but the good thing I always say is at least their foot is in the door. At least they saw it's sort of the medicine and the candy. If I can get you with NFTs or I can get you with, oh, you're making a lot of money. What you're actually doing is teaching yourself what investing is. Whether you do it well or not, you're still teaching yourself and then sort of guiding them to that way. Because again, kids, you can't hit them with the hard facts. Federal Reserve is doing this. Get into Bitcoin. Save. They're not going to listen. You have to get them in some way creative and being a former teacher, I see how that works. You just get them in there and then once they're in, you teach them what they need to know. So. It's usually the latter. I mean, when I was 15, I was going about shoes and dumb shit too. So I understand that. But just trying to shift it a little bit to where it's like, hey, hey, if you're actually thinking long term, you can be pretty wealthy if you know what you're doing.

• 20:46Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. Because it's almost like you're teaching them the skill set of investing and now the barrier to entry to invest has come down so significantly that literally a 15 year old can do it. And then you add in these. Like super asymmetric opportunities, whether they're sustainable or not. And you take a couple thousand dollars or a couple hundred dollars in some cases. And bam, next thing you know, you're like, hey, I'm sitting on a real portfolio that other folks would spend years working. And I'm 15, I'm 16, I'm 20, you know, there's plenty of people at 25 years old and they're just like, you know, wait, what just happened?

• 21:15Speaker 02

  Exactly. I mean, wealth we've never seen before. And again, some of the people who are, you know, around our age, 30s, 40, whatever, most of them have never seen this before, but they lived during the time where, you know, technology took, so they understand that it's coming. It's sort of the, the boomer generation that's like, I don't understand how my 401k is this, but this little kid is making, you know, 60, 80. So that interests them as well. So it all works in his favor, you know, Bitcoin wins again, so.

• 21:41Anthony Pompliano?

  Talk to me about the, uh, like the seminars that you guys do, because I, I think what's so fascinating is you're literally doing like, what I would call a hand to hand combat, right? You're going person to person to person and explaining to them, here's what this is, here's how it works, here's how you buy it, here's how you custody it, here's what to do from a, a good practice, or, or to make sure that you've got high level of security, etc. Like, what, what are these seminars?

• 22:02Speaker 02

  Oh yeah. So, uh, on the book tour, uh, usually using the book as the, you know, the standard for how I teach it. I usually ask people where they are and then meet them there. So for example, uh, if you just start out talking about Bitcoin, most people aren't interested. We're, we're still humans. You gotta start with what interests them. So if they have a business, I start there. All right. For your business, you could put it on your treasury, you could accept it, you could do this, this and that. All right. Uh, if you're looking at being a trader, you can go to, to that angle as well. But usually just helping people where they are. If they're at very basic level, again, setting up wallets, showing them security, cold storage, all those things. I think I'm one of the, I guess, I, I've been out there the most, I think of most people in person.

• 22:42Speaker 02

  Because a lot of people are used to Zoom, we can do videos, forget all that. I like to go to people. So, uh, usually meeting people in person, they want to see your face because they don't, there's no Bitcoin university. There's no like official Bitcoin certification. So for them to believe you, usually in person is better. So loved it. Now I've been to a bunch of cities, uh, going to San Diego, the 19th with Edge Wallace. So, uh, to show some more people. So it's, it's great. To do it in person and seeing people, seeing that light bulb go off is great.

• 23:09Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, it's pretty cool, right?

• 23:10Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, especially the doubters. Oh, man, I've had a couple of doubters and then at the end of it, they kind of just, they just let it go because it's like, well, it's too much evidence stacked up against me. And I did write a book about it. So it's not like I didn't research every combat combat that you have at this point. So it's cool.

• 23:26Anthony Pompliano?

  What do you think is going to happen through the end of the year? You got like a price prediction for Bitcoin?

• 23:29Speaker 02

  I said it January 1st, 250. So I have to stick with it.

• 23:32Anthony Pompliano?

  So you think we're going to hit 250? What's the logic behind getting to $250,000 Bitcoin by the end of the year?

• 23:36Speaker 02

  Uh, so statistically speaking, uh, if you look at the growth of every bull market, 2013, 2017, four years later, here we are. After happening, uh, the statistically where we will go is somewhere 230, 250, if we follow that same path. Uh, also you have other models, you have the S2F model, basically in line. You have people who use the, uh, PUEL multiple to show when there's a time to perfect time to buy, which was during the pandemic of 2020. Right now, we're on the path to where it would be around 210 based on that model. So it just kind of lines up to go that way. And I think, um, also quarter four. Wall Street gets those bonuses. People started, uh, looking to, uh, reduce their tax, uh, their tax liability. So they put it in assets.

• 24:20Speaker 02

  And since Bitcoin is an asset that usually people FOMO into, we hit 70, 80K. Hey, man, you already know what happens after that. Cause I mean, if we really, I mean, just psychologically thinking, if we hit 100K and it zooms from there, there's going to be so many people that say, I'm, I cannot miss this. I can't, I mean, we hit 100 and then all of a sudden it's 120, 140. People, oh my God, what just happened? I gotta buy it. That's why I think, uh, we'll, we'll have the momentum to go past 200.

• 24:44Anthony Pompliano?

  So once that starts to happen, we hit all time high, then we go past 100, go past 150. Is it just like a blow off top? Or you think we come back down on the other side and get another like 70, 80% drawdown at some point?

• 24:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think we, we have that. Uh, I don't know if it'll be 70, 80%, but I, I do think the bear markets will be shorter only because the 2017 bear market, uh, after it happened, it was a lot of retail traders. This time it's more institutional. They're constantly buying. You think Michael Saylor is not going to be buying every dip in the bear market? You think El Salvador is not buying every dip? Other countries during that bear market are not going to be buying every dip leading up to 2024, which is the next happening. After that, I just think it's it's over from there. I don't think a regular person is gonna be able to buy one Bitcoin after 2024. So yeah, I definitely see a blow off top. I think there'll be some sort of event that happens that causes it. Not sure what that will be, but our government is dumb enough to do something. They've been, they've showed their stupidity over the last year to push people to alternative currencies like Bitcoin. So it should be fun, definitely.

• 25:38Anthony Pompliano?

  So if we go to $250,000, do you think that not only the retail investors who definitely drive through FOMO, but do you think a lot of institutions start to FOMO in once we get past like 100, 150K?

• 25:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, because if we get to that point, I believe we'll be at a $5 trillion market cap somewhere in there. That's about half of Gold's or on the way to Gold's. Can't ignore that. I mean, at that point, it's sort of, you'll be left in the dust. And one thing people don't know about institutional investors is most of them don't have an original thought in their mind. They all copy each other. So as soon as the one guy gets rich who was, you know, terrible before, he gets like, well, I should be doing it too. That's, that's how it starts. And then I think we're seeing that now. I mean, we're seeing a lot of, I think even Larry Fink, he didn't say Bitcoin was bad. He didn't say it was good either, but he's sort of, I think he's sitting there thinking like, okay, well, we have trillions of dollars AUM, so why not? Like, why wouldn't we buy more? So I think that thought has started to permeate and we'll see something, something fun in the future.

• 26:33Speaker 02

  Also, ETF might be coming. People have been saying, oh, what if they approve ETF next week? I think the floodgates will be open at that point.

• 26:39Anthony Pompliano?

  You think the ETF is gonna happen?

• 26:41Speaker 02

  Maybe, but who cares?

• 26:44Speaker 02

  Like, I think people would put too much into all of these institutional products that got us where we are now. All they do is really just put us back where we are, but it does let a lot of money enter into the space. So it is, it is good, you know.

• 26:56Anthony Pompliano?

  It's a net positive.

• 26:57Speaker 02

  Net positive, yeah.

• 26:58Anthony Pompliano?

  Joe, what questions you got? First off, that hat's sweet.

• 27:03Anthony Pompliano?

  That's a dope hat. We gotta figure out, we gotta have to get me one of those. Second off, so you've been talking about Bitcoin and financial education in general for a while now. I'm curious, kind of from when you started to today, like, how have you seen that transition? Has it changed at all? And how have people been, been kind of taking in Bitcoin and other digital assets in your, in your talks?

• 27:21Speaker 02

  Yes. So from 2013, when I started, when it was scary times. Everybody thought I was crazy and everybody thought it was a scam, it was Ponzi scheme, it was Beanie Babies. I don't know, whatever people said it was. From that time period to now, it has improved so much so, uh, to the point now where you can buy it instantly on Cash App. Like, it's so amazing to me that you can literally buy Bitcoin just like that. It used to be this whole process to go through, like, you had to do it on the command line, so I think, uh, it's gotten a lot easier for people. User experience has gotten better, and I also think that, uh, socially, there are people who influence people, you know, rappers, entertainers, they've gotten into it, so. It's become a lot easier when you say, hey, yeah, by the way, Jay-Z owns Bitcoin. By the way, uh, Nas, uh, has staked in Coinbase.

• 28:03Speaker 02

  So people start to, you know, accept it more that way, so I love it at this point. It's just, it's just funny to see that now that we're at this point. We have people who are still trying to scam and scheme and do whatever stuff with whatever projects or whatever, uh, and losing money when it's like so much money in this market, why would you even do that? So hopefully we get that out, but since then, it's been pretty much the same.

• 28:23Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, it's been fun to watch it become a part of culture, for sure.

• 28:27Speaker 02

  Seen it in movies, commercials, I mean, this is, it's crazy to me, uh, especially because, uh, what, what movie was it? Dope. On the other side of the movie, I remember seeing it in two thousand and fifteen, and my girlfriend at the time, as soon as they said the word Bitcoin in there, I was like, see, I told you, this is real. She was like, holy shit, this is real. I didn't think Bitcoin was actually.

• 28:47Speaker 02

  So that's how people learn about it and, you know, go from there.

• 28:50Anthony Pompliano?

  John, what do you got?

• 28:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, um, I'm curious, whatever you're comfortable sharing with, so a lot of our audience is young and they're trying to figure out how to allocate capital to different avenues, whether it's cryptocurrencies, holding in cash, whatever. Could you just talk about your personal allocation, maybe percentages, whatever you're comfortable with sharing?

• 29:04Speaker 02

  Yep, uh, so ninety percent of my savings is in Bitcoin. Um, the reason I keep it there is statistically, two hundred percent year over year, compound annual growth. Uh, also holding it, there is no tax liability because you don't sell it, so I avoid that, so I keep it in Bitcoin. And then also, uh, as far as any other things to invest in, I always say, uh, any other altcoins, to me Bitcoin and cryptocurrency is separate. Bitcoin is one thing, trying to be, you know, peer-to-peer money system, cryptocurrency is different. Those investments are more speculative, and I would say only money you can afford to lose, put it to cryptocurrency. Uh, in Bitcoin, if you don't have it in there, that is money you will lose. So that's sort of the difference. So I wouldn't say any percentages to put in there, but just money you can afford to lose. And again,

• 29:46Speaker 02

  watch out for a lot of these, these projects that promise you the world. They have a lot of buzzwords, but don't mean anything. It's interoperable blockchain web 3.0, blah, blah, blah. All of that is a sort of, you know, just, just fluff. So just watch out for that.

• 30:01Anthony Pompliano?

  When you start to think about uh, how people can get educated, reading your book is obviously a huge piece of it. What else should people be doing in terms of learning?

• 30:09Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, definitely stay on YouTube. YouTube has pretty much everything uh, that you want to learn. I would say whenever you look at projects or look at things in the industry, always look at their GitHub. Even if you're not technical, you can do a quick review to make sure that they're actually active. Because for some reason, people look at these projects, they think it's going to change the world. And developers haven't even done an update in two months. So look at their GitHub. Also look at the founders, look at sort of their history. Seen a lot of rebrands. I've seen, I mean, crypto.com was Monaco back in the day. I mean, all of the, a lot of these companies, they rebrand. So look at the history of it. And then also, I would say long-term, uh, whatever you choose to, to look at uh, or to invest in, you want to make sure that you're actually staying in it for long-term.

• 30:53Speaker 02

  Because some people will buy it and say, yeah, I'll hold it for, you know, a year, two years. That's, that's not long-term. We're talking 10, 20, 30 years, something that you wouldn't sell, maybe for 100 years, like Michael Siegel said with Bitcoin. So those should be your metrics. And from there, just block out the noise. Don't listen to Bitcoin Twitter. A lot of people will, will steer you wrong. Uh, just FOMO in, in, into stuff. So just watch out for that.

• 31:13Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. So talk about like the long-term view. I always say that uh, the Bitcoin that I have, I'm gonna hand to my kids.

• 31:19Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 31:20Anthony Pompliano?

  Right? And the reason why that's the thought process is because when you think about it as I'm just holding this for somebody else, there's never a urge to sell at all, right? So how, how do you walk through, how did you get the conviction for kind of a multi-decade type? Hold of an asset?

• 31:36Speaker 02

  Well, first, I had a daughter who will be one years old, uh, the 21st. So that changed my mindset a lot. Cause I mean, I was doing Bitcoin for myself. And then when you have a child, it's like, well, this is about to be generational. So yeah, I have no intentions to sell because for one, uh, passing it down to her. Somebody once said, you know, nobody really owns Bitcoin. You're just holding it for the next generation, right? So really that conviction came from that. And then also too, seeing that if Bitcoin goes long-term, you know, For whatever reason, if something happens, it goes away and you're 2200 or something like that. Before that time period, you want to make sure that your kids can grow their wealth without the the the cost of inflation. You know, weighing them down, especially at a young age. I mean, you have kids who are growing up now in a world where it's already all the odds are against them.

• 32:21Speaker 02

  Bitcoin to me seems like the only plan B they could actually have. So definitely holding it and generational, you know, wealth. People hate, I hate when people say this. They want to have generational wealth, but they don't provide their kids with the education. They just give them money and then they don't give them the education. That's the second part of it. You have to give them the education on how it works. Don't sell it. I'm sure I'll have some idiot grandson at some point that'll get in like gambling debts or some. And be like, I want to sell the Bitcoin. I'm like, no, no, no. It'll be like, don't sell your grandmother's house. Don't sell grandpa's Bitcoin. So trying to trying to teach that to my kids or future kids as well as giving them the money as well.

• 32:56Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, it's very interesting. There's a lot of cultures in the world. India is a great example where they pass gold down from, you know, generation, generation, generation. And if you're the idiot who sells the family's gold, game over. You ain't coming to any holidays.

• 33:11Anthony Pompliano?

  Right. And so I do think that there's this element that it's likely to to kind of play out there as well. When you think about that generational of passing it on, do you think about education, the asset? And then also like buying into the infrastructure or doing anything else? Or is it just no trying to get Bitcoin and then being able to pass that down?

• 33:28Speaker 02

  Bitcoin is great, but yes, having, I would say, stocks and Bitcoin mining companies are great. Actually having investments in Bitcoin companies or crypto companies are great as well. All things to diversify. When people talk about diversify, that's what I would say. And as far as VCs, like as you know, a lot of VCs invest in these companies. If you are an accredited investor, I would look into that because a lot of times if you can't get the gold by the shovels or at least invest in the shovels. So I think a lot of people that can do that will will win as well. Because as Bitcoin increases, as it gets better, everybody wins, actually.

• 34:05Anthony Pompliano?

  So we have a tweet of yours that I think we're going to pull up. That Paulina saw and sent to me. And it says, I remember having $300 of cash on me in 2014, heading to buy an ounce of weed. Right? So shout out to the weed. Decided to buy an eighth instead, and I bought one Bitcoin with the rest. That same Bitcoin is what I gifted my daughter. Delayed gratification got my baby girl set for life. So talk about this, here we go, here's a tweet right here. So 300 bucks of cash, he bought an eighth of weed instead of an ounce. And then he also bought a Bitcoin handed to your daughter. Talk about like that mentality, because I think what sticks out to me, and this may be a crazy thing for me to take away from this. You still got some weed, right?

• 34:50Anthony Pompliano?

  You didn't have to completely say, I ain't gonna get any weed, right? Like you were able to still get some weed plus the Bitcoins. So explain that.

• 34:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. So, you know, at the time, I was really, to me, it seems crazy now, but I was really so adamant about buying as much Bitcoin as possible. Cause I was sold in 2013, like I was completely sold, this is the future. That it seemed crazy to some people, like every 20, 40, 60, 80 bucks I had extra, I would stop eating out at work. I would, you know, use less gas, driving plate, like I would just do small stuff, take that money and then go buy Bitcoin. So this particular incident, it was a Friday, you know, it is Friday, you just got paid, you're like, oh yeah, I'm about to do this, this and that. Had a lot of bills, but I was like, all right, I got this cash, I'm about to go buy weed like regular. But then I thought about it, I was like, well, actually Bitcoin is 200, it was at 240, I think, or 250. And I was like, well, actually I can buy a whole Bitcoin with this 250 and get a little bit less. And when I got it, I put it on this flash drive that, again, I still have to this day.

• 35:41Speaker 02

  That Bitcoin is still sitting there, it's my daughter's for whenever she turns 18. But my mindset at that time was everything you should be doing, it should be revolved around stacking stats before it was a term. And I used to go to ATMs every, pretty much every day or every other day, buy 20 bucks worth, buy 40 bucks worth. And this is when Bitcoin was $200. So that was pretty significant. Point three here, point five there adds up. So my mindset has never changed since then, still do it to this day. But I just think people didn't have the sense of urgency. They just thought this is crazy, you're a crazy person. Yeah, well, crazy people are usually right sometimes. So I think just having that conviction was great at that time and it worked out again. Like I said, I think one Bitcoin would be worth millions at some point. So that's what I meant by I set my baby girl up for life just by not buying extra weed.

• 36:25Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, yeah. And when you think about this, like this idea of the stacking stats, right? Of just, hey, I bought today 20, 40 bucks, obviously can't buy you 0.3, 0.5 Bitcoin. Uh, but it can still buy you some Bitcoin and being able to do that over time. It's almost like you built the habit of doing it. And you built the discipline to continue to do it. And then that ultimately is what led to uh being able to kind of build a Bitcoin position that ended up being pretty valuable, right?

• 36:48Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, absolutely. And and again, dollar cost averaging is for everybody. There is no person that can't dollar cost average. Everybody can't buy it straight, you know, one whole Bitcoin. Everybody can't trade. Everybody can't supposedly be an accredited investor, but you can dollar cost average 20 bucks a week, 50 bucks a week, 100 bucks a month, whatever it is. That's actually the best strategy. And I've been doing it so long now. It's like second nature. I use services now to do it automatically. But yeah, back then it was just habit. Just go buy as much as you can just because our dollar is going away. This is what what the future holds.

• 37:18Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. If I gave you the floor for two minutes, what's your pitch for people as to why they should uh should take a look at Bitcoin and what the value proposition is?

• 37:24Speaker 02

  Uh, so.

• 37:28Speaker 02

  Let's see.

• 37:29Anthony Pompliano?

  Why? You fast with the answers. You are so fast with that one.

• 37:33Speaker 02

  I don't want to get too philosophical. That's why I was trying to stop myself. But uh, let's just say Bitcoin is the first true form of freedom uh in the digital world. And without Bitcoin, you are guaranteed to lose your money. And with Bitcoin, you can keep your value long term. So I would say for anybody who is on the fence about Bitcoin, uh, at this point, if you need convincing, I can't really help you. Like Satoshi said, but what I can say is uh, if you need evidence, we have plenty of it uh in this 12 year history.

• 38:03Anthony Pompliano?

  And what is the evidence you normally point to with people?

• 38:06Speaker 02

  Uh, we started out as an obscure currency and we're at a $1 trillion market cap. Not much more evidence you need than that.

• 38:11Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, just go right to, hey, look, there's so much adoption and now it's pushed up to a trillion dollar asset class and that that pretty much shuts everybody up.

• 38:17Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 38:18Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 38:18Speaker 02

  Pretty much.

• 38:19Anthony Pompliano?

  And then what do you think about in terms of financial services around it, right? Because I think one of, again, it's just always stuck in my head of the financial services. And there's so many people in the world that are blocked out from what is in the Western world considered, oh, just normal financial services. When we get into this Bitcoin-denominated world, do you feel like people will still leverage the same exact financial services around lending and borrowing and all that?

• 38:40Speaker 02

  I think to an extent it's a bridge to where we're going, but I don't think it will be as needed and as inflammatory as it is now, a lot of the lending and loan sharks and all this stuff, that'll go away. I think it'll be more fair because people would literally be able to look at blockchain and see that this is what the rates are, this is better, competition is always good. That doesn't exist in a centralized world. The competition is gone pretty much. So I think, yeah, at that point, Bitcoin, we may have those services, but I think it'll be a shift in how business is done, a little bit more fair, I think.

• 39:09Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. John, what do you think?

• 39:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, I agree. I have one question for you. What are some books you think people should read besides?

• 39:17Anthony Pompliano?

  I got a great book suggestion.

• 39:20Speaker 02

  So just in general, The Bitcoin Standard is always a great one. I would say reading Confessions of an Economic Hitman changed my life, just seeing how things really work. The Creature of Jekyll Island, The Intelligent Investor. I would say From Bars to Bitcoin. Shout out to Justin Riedrich, who you have Bitcoin Vegan, his story. Because that's one thing in Bitcoin, everybody's talking about how they got rich. Nobody talks about how they started and how they got to that point, how Bitcoin could change. So shout out to Justin. And let's see, other than that, those are probably my top five right now.

• 39:54Anthony Pompliano?

  Pump your own book again, please.

• 39:55Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Definitely Bitcoin in Black America, one and two. Second version is out for preorder, so that was a great book as well, I would say. Lot of information in there.

• 40:03Anthony Pompliano?

  When, explain Justin's story real quick for those that didn't listen to the podcast episode I did with him.

• 40:07Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah. So Justin, I actually have known Justin since I was 12 and he actually went to prison. For a couple of years, got out, rehabilitated himself, you know, and got his own business going. He was, he had a taco truck at first, which I always tell the story, I was buying tacos from him in Bitcoin. So I actually bought a $900 burrito from him at some point. It was 16 bucks at the time, but it was like 900 something now. So, uh, so yeah, I was buying that from him. Rehabilitated himself, started accepting Bitcoin, started setting up Lightning Nodes, started educational services on to now having the book. And then starting a tour, hopefully soon now going around the prisons, teaching them about Bitcoin. Because one thing we're trying to implement is J Pay, which is the way that you send money to people who are in prison.

• 40:50Speaker 02

  Could actually have them invest in Bitcoin automatically through some service. BitWage may be one, some of the other ones we'll see, but yeah, Justin's story is amazing. You have to read it from bars of Bitcoin and it's, it's a testament to what Bitcoin can do. It's not just, I made a bunch of money, changes your mindset and it takes you on a path. I think that's way more enlightened than what we have right now.

• 41:09Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. Well, one of the things I think that we've, uh, obviously the whole show is built around, uh, the actual show, the best business show, not the most dangerous business show. But the entire idea is this is education and it's mindset, right? And it sounds super cheesy, it sounds super, uh, kind of like woo woo or whatever, when you, when you say it that way. But ultimately wealthy people know something that other people don't know. And what they know is either passed down to them, somebody in their family told them, they had a mentor somewhere along the way. Or they learned it from themselves off the internet or reading books or whatever. But once you get that knowledge, it's the whole idea of you could take that wealthy person, you could take them out of, let's say the United States. You could take every asset they have, take their phone, they can't contact anybody, whatever.

• 41:51Anthony Pompliano?

  And you can go and you can drop them in another country and they got nothing to their name. And they'd probably be wealthy again.

• 41:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:58Anthony Pompliano?

  Right? Because they, they got the skillset, they understand how to, how to play the game. And in some crazy way, I talked to some of my friends about it, they're like, man, I'd probably be richer if that happened to me than what I'm doing right now. Because, you know, I started a business, it's a good business, but it's not a great business. And you know, if I started all over again, I would do something different. But by the way, I can't really kind of give up because I'm addicted to, you know, the salary or the earnings or whatever. And so it's really interesting when you think about like, there is no place to go learn that. Skill set, right? It is literally you learn on the internet, a mentor or like a family or a friend tells you. Is this like informal network? And then that's ultimately how people end up acquiring skill set.

• 42:34Speaker 02

  Man, it's crazy. It's crazy to see too, because like I said before, there's no Bitcoin university. And as far as investing and education, as far as where you can do it, there's so many avenues you can go to, but who's actually correct? Who knows what they're talking about? That's always hard to find. But yeah, man, this is a great time to be alive. That's all I have to say. All the information is there, you just gotta go find it.

• 42:53Anthony Pompliano?

  Joe, what are the people who have taken Bitcoin from like musicians and athletes? We've got Saquon taking marketing deals.

• 43:00Speaker 04

  We got Cunningham did with BlockFi.

• 43:03Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, Kay did it. Russell Kung took half of his salary in Bitcoin, which is crazy.

• 43:10Speaker 04

  No, Trevor Lawrence, the quarterback for Jacksonville.

• 43:14Anthony Pompliano?

  He took like some crypto or something right from FTX. Ndamukong Su didn't do anything?

• 43:18Speaker 04

  Not that I know of, but Tom Brady owns that.

• 43:21Anthony Pompliano?

  Come on, man.

• 43:22Speaker 02

  Sean Cogan, shout out to Sean.

• 43:23Anthony Pompliano?

  Sean Cogan, yes. There's another one. And then what? We've got Brady. We also have, who is that? There was a recent professional soccer player, right? That ended up taking it. He's, but he's getting paid his salary or marketing deals, salary. And then we don't have any teams yet that have actually said they're putting Bitcoin on the balance sheet or anything.

• 43:46Speaker 04

  Who was the soccer club in? Who was it? Maybe the Netherlands or something took some through a deal and they're back. We didn't sell it. It's appreciated or whatever. So they have some, but I don't think they like proactively went out.

• 43:56Anthony Pompliano?

  Dallas Mavericks accepted, right?

• 43:59Speaker 02

  On the balance sheet.

• 43:59Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, yeah. They accepted it for merch. And then, well, you got Murder Beats. I know that he, he's a Bitcoin investor. You got.

• 44:08Speaker 02

  Was it Sacramento Kings? Didn't they have a mining operation going on?

• 44:12Anthony Pompliano?

  They did. They donated it. Yeah, yeah. Sacramento Kings.

• 44:14Speaker 04

  I don't know if it actually ever went through, but they, they had said that they were going to allow all their employees to be paid in Bitcoin. I don't know if it got approved with the league or whatever, but I know they were working on it.

• 44:22Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, Vivek is the owner of the Sacramento Kings. He's doing a great job. And then you've got, so you've got in, outside of sports, you've got Murder Beats. I know Meek Mill, right? Is super into Bitcoin crypto stuff. I'm assuming, do we know Drake's position yet?

• 44:39Speaker 02

  Not particularly, but I'm sure he's.

• 44:41Anthony Pompliano?

  I feel like Drake and Kanye, you get those two to say it, it's like, okay, like you tip the scales even further. Right?

• 44:46Speaker 04

  Well, they'll be beefing and want to buy more and then the next one buy more and the next thing you know.

• 44:50Anthony Pompliano?

  I don't know.

• 44:51Speaker 04

  Twenty one million.

• 44:52Anthony Pompliano?

  They'll buy Bitcoin cash.

• 44:54Speaker 03

  Jay-Z is involved in crypto yet, but I know he's an NFT craze.

• 44:58Anthony Pompliano?

  Well, yeah, I mean, he's got the what Crypto Punk, I think is his avatar or whatever, right?

• 45:03Speaker 02

  Well, him and him and Jack Dorsey started a B Trust private fund. I'm actually applying for that to be on that board. So.

• 45:10Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, really?

• 45:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, with Jay-Z and Jack Dorsey, so.

• 45:12Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay, explain what that is to everyone.

• 45:13Speaker 02

  So it's a private trust, I believe it's 500 Bitcoins worth right now, it'll be more later. Private trust for developers building on Bitcoin in African countries. So Jay-Z and Jack Dorsey started it. I don't know if there'll be more added to it, but yeah, I applied for it. Fingers crossed. We'll see if I can get on there because that would be a great.

• 45:29Anthony Pompliano?

  How do we help you get it?

• 45:30Speaker 02

  Oh, man. So everybody tweet Jack right now. Tweet Jay-Z right now and say, hey, this is the guy you need to get on there. So made it to the final round of interviews and see how it goes.

• 45:41Anthony Pompliano?

  And on the board, the idea is that they're going to take the 500 Bitcoin over time. I'm assuming that it'll appreciate. And they're going to give it to developers in African countries that are building for Bitcoin.

• 45:55Speaker 02

  Yep, building Bitcoin businesses, building on Lightning, building, you know, different projects that are centered around that. And then, of course, I'm sure there'll be scholarship funds, things of that nature, donations to different 501(c)(3). So, yeah, all great stuff. Just want to be a part of it because I think that is the breeding ground of all the great talent right now. In a lot of African countries, they never had this opportunity, so they're going even harder. Like, I tell people all the time, some of these developers in Kenya will eat us for lunch because they they have more of a reason to want to use it. Like, they can actually change everything. And here we're kind of spoiled. We have a relatively stable currency and countries where that's not the case, they're definitely going to work a lot harder. So I just want to be there to help as far as education.

• 46:33Anthony Pompliano?

  I'm absolutely convinced, like 1,000% convinced that the United States is complacent. And the people here are like, ah, I can go to the ATM, you know, I can walk in the bank. My my dollars, you know, yeah, maybe they went down, maybe they didn't, but I don't know. It's only 5% inflation. It's not, you know, Argentina, which is 50% inflation or whatever. And so what they ultimately end up doing is, I think they're convinced that there's value here. And a lot of people are like, okay, yeah, we'll get to it. But in other countries. They're like, this is a yesterday thing, right? Like, we gotta get on this, right?

• 47:06Speaker 02

  That's why Nigeria has what, second or third most transactions? They need it. That's a different mindset than, I'll get it if I feel like it. That's a whole different mindset.

• 47:14Anthony Pompliano?

  And I also wonder how much they understand a different problem as well, right? Like, the problem that I have in the United States is like stupid stuff, right? Oh, the bank is closed and it's hours of operations. They're like, I don't have a bank account. Like, that is a completely different problem set that you're trying to solve for versus uh, kind of a need to, or I'm sorry, uh, nice to have in the United States in many of these other places that need to have, right? And that, I think, really drives, uh, one, just the velocity of action and, and kind of the urgency. But also it tends to drive, I think, uh, just a different type of, uh, solution that gets built. Because they actually understand fundamentally a problem that I think most people in the Western world don't understand. We're, we're trying to figure out, how do I do derivatives?

• 47:53Anthony Pompliano?

  You know, what, like, huh, let's go trade, let's go, you know, do all this crazy stuff. But there's people who are like, no, literally, if I can earn a living by just having an internet connection, I can get payments that are unsensored, and I can hold that asset, no one can confiscate it for me.

• 48:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:05Anthony Pompliano?

  It's a middle finger to my local, you know, government or bank or whatever. And, you know, that's not in a, a negative way. It's actually, most people in the Western world would say, no, you should put your middle finger up to your local bank because they're stealing from you, right?

• 48:17Speaker 02

  And they've been doing it for a long time.

• 48:19Anthony Pompliano?

  Right? I- i- i- it's nuts, too. And I also guess like part of it is just like how much internet penetration, smartphone penetration we now have, right? If we were talking about this 10, 15 years ago, we probably don't have the internet coverage or the smartphone penetration to actually be able to pull this off. Now, I think we do. And, you know, I, I, I think I've told you this story before. I went to Nigeria in 2016, I believe. I think it was 2016 or 2015. Uh, and I went to a place called Computer Village, right? Uh, outside of, uh, or in Lagos. And, um, I was blown away. I walked through that place. And I literally was like, this is the future. I think I actually wrote a piece when I came back and I was like, that is the future of the consumer internet. Is just people who they've got smartphones, they understand the internet, they're digitally native, and everything they were doing was completely different.

• 49:04Anthony Pompliano?

  And, and the best example I have is, uh, while I was there, I went to what, uh, I, I don't know what else to call it, but like a sports book, right? It's basically like you go and they were betting on, uh, soccer. And it was very rudimentary. You walk up, they basically write on a piece of paper, whatever. They give it to you. You sit down, you watch the game, go back up, get your money, whatever. And a game ended. And I noticed that a bunch of people were watching one of the TVs on the far right. And I was, and I started paying attention. I was like, is that a real game? And then I realized they were all betting on simulations of a video game. So you remember like when we played video game like Madden at home? Yeah, you simulated, okay, whatever. I just, you know, think I'm being too lazy, right?

• 49:44Anthony Pompliano?

  They were betting on it. And so I remember thinking to myself like, damn, if that ever took off in the US, that'd be crazy. Right? Like, like I couldn't see it because I was just like, oh, we like live sports and whatever. Zed Run.

• 49:57Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 49:57Anthony Pompliano?

  Right? Is the horse game or whatever that all these people, and again, I don't play it, but all these people are betting on these horses running in simulations.

• 50:05Speaker 02

  Wow. And so we've come.

• 50:07Anthony Pompliano?

  And you just look at it and you're like, okay, again, like maybe that one works, maybe it doesn't. I don't know. It's almost doesn't even matter. But like I saw that happening in Nigeria in, you know, 2015, 2016. And now bam, here we go. Here's this global phenomenon. And so I do think that like that same mechanism is going to happen over and over and over again. Where uh, there's just a different consumer behavior that then gets exported to the rest of the world. And now those technologies are there. Historically, people in Nigeria have waited for other people to build it.

• 50:35Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 50:36Anthony Pompliano?

  I don't think they're gonna have to do that as much anymore.

• 50:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I've talked to people who are building mesh networks in Africa right now and African countries. And mesh networks hasn't been a big topic in like the Bitcoin industry, but think about it. The internet does go down or if your phone isn't working, how would you be able to send value? Mesh network takes care of that. And I mean, in a place where that could happen, they're going to be more advanced. And then what's going to happen over here? Like you said, then we're probably going to jump up and start building mesh networks. But hey, it could happen over here. So you're right in that respect. I think uh, them being innovative in different countries, Nigeria, Ghana, South Africa, just different places, I think are finally getting a chance. I mean, even outside of Africa, if you look at a place like the Philippines, they have exploded playing this game called Axie Infinity.

• 51:17Speaker 02

  I mean, they're making more from a video game than their monthly salary usual, like their usual monthly salary. So yeah, that's going to change a lot of people's uh, perception. And I think here, the only reason we haven't adopted it is because the video game industry is so big right now. They don't need it, but think about it, they need it. So that's why they're going so hard, but they'll adopt it at some point. You'll be buying Fortnite clothes or packs or whatever with crypto soon enough.