#564 Matt James on Bitcoin, The Bachelor, and Life After The Show

Matt James is a businessman, former football player, and bitcoiner. Matt is best known for being The Bachelor in season 25. In this conversation, we discuss The Bachelor, Matt’s relationship with Rachel, watching the show like sports, how Matt got into Bitcoin, and why Matt has an unique opportunity to tech new people about bitcoin. ======================= Public Rec is where indoor comfort meets outdoor style. Their best-selling All Day Every Day Pant is a more stylish alternative to sweatpants, and a more comfortable alternative to jeans. From the couch to the gym to the grocery store, and everywhere in between, Public Rec has you covered. Comfort starts with a better fit. Free shipping. Free returns. Visit www.publicrec.com/pomp and use POMP at checkout to get 10% off! ======================= As one of the largest and oldest Bitcoin exchanges in the world, Kraken is consistently named one of the best places to buy and sell crypto online, thanks to our excellent service, low fees, versatile funding options and rigorous security standards -- but this is only part of the story. We’ve been on the forefront of the blockchain revolution since 2011: http://www.kraken.com ======================= Unstoppable Domains makes crypto easier by replacing your address with [AnyName].crypto. They allow you to send and receive over 70 cryptocurrencies, including BTC, ETH, and LINK with a single blockchain domain. Go to unstoppabledomains.com and get [YourName].crypto to make your crypto life easier. ======================= Masterworks lets you invest in multi-million dollar artworks by artists like Banksy, KAWS and Basquiat at a fraction of the price. Contemporary art prices outperformed S&P 500 returns by 174% since 1995. Explore the $1.7 trillion art market and skip their 25,000 person waitlist at masterworks.io/pomp. (See disclaimer).

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Anthony Pompliano?

  What's up everyone, this is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, simply the best podcast out there. Now let's kick this thing off. Matt James is a businessman, a former football player, and a Bitcoiner. Matt is best known for being the Bachelor in season 25. In this conversation, we discuss The Bachelor, Matt's relationship with Rachel, watching the show like sports, how Matt got into Bitcoin, and why Matt has a unique opportunity to teach new people about Bitcoin. I really enjoyed this conversation with Matt, and I hope you do as well. Before we get into this episode, though, I want to quickly talk about our sponsors. First up are my friends over at Public Rec. Public Rec is on a mission to make comfort look good. That's

• 0:47Anthony Pompliano?

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• 1:26Anthony Pompliano?

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• 2:16Anthony Pompliano?

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• 2:58Anthony Pompliano?

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• 3:43Anthony Pompliano?

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• 4:27Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, let's get into this episode with Matt James. I hope you enjoy this one.

• 4:31Speaker 01

  Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

• 4:59Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, guys. Bang, bang. I've got Matt here. What's up, man?

• 5:02Speaker 02

  What's good, Ant?

• 5:02Anthony Pompliano?

  Not much. You're The Bachelor. I don't think that you grew up wanting to be The Bachelor. How the hell does that happen?

• 5:08Speaker 02

  Bro, it's just you kind of fall into it. Like, my...

• 5:12Anthony Pompliano?

  You're supposed to say you were looking for love.

• 5:15Speaker 02

  Well, that's a given, you know? It's like, I'd never given myself a chance to explore what a relationship looked like. So when the opportunity presented itself, it was something that I entertained initially. And then my roommate's mom, Tyler, Tyler's mom really pushed me. She's like, you know, I saw how much this pushed Tyler in the direction that he needed to go and become the man and...

• 5:38Anthony Pompliano?

  He was already on the show.

• 5:39Speaker 02

  He had been on The Bachelorette as a contestant. So he was pursuing the woman.

• 5:42Anthony Pompliano?

  But he didn't win.

• 5:43Speaker 02

  He was, he didn't win.

• 5:44Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. Did you, when he comes back, are you like, you're a loser, you lost? Or is it just like a not, like everyone except for one loses?

• 5:51Speaker 02

  You know what's funny about that? He wouldn't tell me what happened. And that's my homie. That's my guy. I'm like, yo, so like, what happened? Like, are you engaged? He's like, I'm like, he was acting weird. You know what I mean? Just because I was expecting him to come back and be like...

• 6:04Anthony Pompliano?

  Tell you everything.

• 6:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, but like, it really did change him for the better. And so I was like, I took that into consideration when I was thinking about doing it myself.

• 6:11Anthony Pompliano?

  How much did that play into you getting selected, you think? Like, that your roommate had been on the show versus it wouldn't have mattered?

• 6:18Speaker 02

  You know, I think it helped a lot because it gave me visibility into that fan base. You know what I mean? And what they were looking for and...

• 6:27Speaker 02

  I don't think that I would have been in that spotlight without that friendship and relationship with Tyler, because I think the peak of that was during quarantine, you know, after I had gone out to California to film The Bachelorette. Like, I was initially supposed to be a contestant.

• 6:41Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, interesting. I didn't know that.

• 6:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I was supposed to be a contestant and COVID happened. And I'm in my hotel, I don't have a phone, I don't have anything, and it's like.

• 6:50Anthony Pompliano?

  Wait, they don't, you don't, they don't give you any electronics?

• 6:52Speaker 02

  Anything, bro. I'm just watching TV, it's like NCAA tournament canceled, like FIFA canceled. I'm like, yo, if all this stuff's canceled, how are we about to film? And then like literally clockwork, someone walks in like, hey, we're gonna postpone for two weeks. So, um, we're gonna get you a flight back to New York. I call Tyler, he's like, yo, don't come to New York. Shit's hitting the fan, like, come down to Jupiter.

• 7:12Anthony Pompliano?

  Yep.

• 7:12Speaker 02

  So I'm like, done. I came from Jupiter because his mom had passed away and I was down there for the funeral. So I stayed another week and then flew out to California. So I just came right back to Jupiter. And Hannah, who was on, who was The Bachelorette that he was pursuing during his season, was in Florida as well for the funeral. So she came back down and we were all kind of quarantining together. And then that snowballed into this opportunity where I was presented the opportunity to be The Bachelor.

• 7:42Anthony Pompliano?

  When you get that phone call or email, do you like jump up and down, you're like, let's fucking go? Or is it like, damn, am I really gonna do it? Like, do you like, are you worried about saying yes? Or is it like a celebratory thing?

• 7:52Speaker 02

  You know what's funny? So like, at that time, at the, in the house that I was quarantining in, like, it was the peak of prank wars. Like, there's, like, we, like, we were at each other's necks. There's 10 people living in like a two-bedroom house. And so I, I thought it was a joke. Like, I thought someone was messing with me. Because it's a, it's an area code I've never seen.

• 8:10Anthony Pompliano?

  Yep.

• 8:10Speaker 02

  It's someone I had never spoken to. So I get this call, and I'm just like, who paid this person? I'm just like on edge. And then they called back the next day and I was like, oh shit, this is real. And I was honored, you know, because I know the type of, um,

• 8:26Speaker 02

  the type of research and the type of, um...

• 8:30Speaker 02

  I just know how difficult it is to be in that pool of people that they're considering and what an honor it would be to be the first black person to do that. So, um, yeah, it was surreal. It was surreal.

• 8:40Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. So you get there, uh, you meet all these girls. What's going through your head like that? Like to me, it's just like, there's this element of, uh, wow, all these girls are here for me, right? So like, there's probably like, uh, I'm the man, right? At the same time, you're like, oh, but it's gonna be on national television, like, that throws a wrench in things like, I'm gonna have to be careful as to like, what I say, do whatever, because everything's filmed, right? Uh, and then you like, get into it. And is it literally as emotional? And for, for those that are listening, uh, I've never watched this show before, but I saw Matt beforehand. My wife is a, a 20 year veteran, I think of the show. And, uh, so I started watching, uh, because we've got some friends that, uh, they're mutual friends and it's like sports, man.

• 9:23Anthony Pompliano?

  Like literally, like you could cheer on one girl over another girl or whatever, right? And you're like, you, you get into it. And so like, is that the same thing for you on the other side of it?

• 9:31Speaker 02

  You know, it's different for me, you know, because these are real relationships I'm dealing with.

• 9:35Anthony Pompliano?

  Are they real? Come on. Are they really?

• 9:37Speaker 02

  They're real for me. And I think that's why, uh, that's why it worked for me because when, like to your point, there's people who have bachelor pools and they're doing all this stuff like, oh, we wonder. And, and that's fun and it gets people engaged, but for it to work and for it to be real and, uh, for those connections to be valid, you've got to be vulnerable. And that's not something that I was ever comfortable with being or doing just because like I was conditioned as a man, just to keep all that stuff inside and not share like our friend. My friend group didn't talk about stuff like that. And so when I'm like forced to address these things that I've never talked about or, um, come to terms with, with these women, you just form this connection and bond over sharing things with people you've never shared before.

• 10:18Speaker 02

  And also being disconnected from work, email, phone, like you don't have any electronics, like it's just you and these women out there trying to figure out if you're compatible with one another.

• 10:28Anthony Pompliano?

  So it's weird if like a friend called me up and he started saying all kinds of emotional stuff, you'd almost be like, you good?

• 10:34Speaker 02

  Well, now, now I'm like, yo, I welcome those conversations.

• 10:37Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 10:37Speaker 02

  It's funny. After the experience, like, uh, you find yourself just like trying to have these like deep conversations. So it's like, if you, a, a common question you get is, so how are you feeling? Pom. Like, I feel good.

• 10:51Speaker 02

  If you ask me how I'm feeling, man, let me tell you like it's been a tough day like I've had this going on and I think.

• 10:56Anthony Pompliano?

  You're more honest.

• 10:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, you just you just dive deeper and you look to have those type of connections and conversations. So after the show, I'm like having these conversations with people and they're just like, yo, like, are you good? I'm just like, no, I just want to know like it's because it feels good to get those things off your chest and share it.

• 11:09Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, the host, what's his name?

• 11:11Speaker 02

  Chris.

• 11:11Anthony Pompliano?

  Chris, all right. What's he like behind the scenes?

• 11:14Speaker 02

  He was great, you know, I I spent a lot of time with Chris because during the days that we weren't filming, we would we'd catch up, catch up on how I'm feeling. There was times where he had his family there and a lot of the producers would have their family there and it just made it real. Because you know, there's the work and then like when the cameras are off, it's like, oh, this guy's a dad, like, oh, this guy.

• 11:37Anthony Pompliano?

  Like, what's he doing though? Is he like smoking a cigar, drinking a drink and like chilling with his kids?

• 11:40Speaker 02

  He's doing prep work. Yeah, his his kids are in high school, so he's doing helping them out at the house and he's he's an avid golfer, so he's playing a lot of golf.

• 11:48Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, so he's on vacation, basically.

• 11:49Speaker 02

  Well, you know, it it might seem like that to some, but like to him, he's working because when he comes on set, he's ready to go.

• 11:54Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 11:55Speaker 02

  He was, yeah.

• 11:56Anthony Pompliano?

  And how many people? You said there's like a couple hundred people there as part of this production?

• 11:59Speaker 02

  There was so many people there, like producers, lighting, sound.

• 12:06Speaker 02

  You have the the staff of Nymacol and you've got it's such a it's such a a big vehicle and you don't really have. I didn't have any concept of that until I got there and I'm just like, wow.

• 12:19Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 12:20Speaker 02

  I I had no idea there was so much that went into making this work for everybody.

• 12:24Anthony Pompliano?

  So when I'm watching the show, a couple of times you pulled up in nice cars, you had nice clothes. I was like, damn, this guy's killing life. I was like, what do they bring you in a garage and they're like, yo, what car you want to drive up in this scene or like, how's that work?

• 12:35Speaker 02

  It was funny about that. So the G-Wagon was actually Maggie's and Maggie owns.

• 12:42Anthony Pompliano?

  Who's Maggie?

• 12:43Speaker 02

  Maggie's the CEO of 84 Lumber.

• 12:44Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 12:45Speaker 02

  She also owns Nymacol, the resort.

• 12:47Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it.

• 12:48Speaker 02

  And so Ms. Hardy, Maggie Hardy, she would, she let me use her car for some of the stuff.

• 12:53Anthony Pompliano?

  Ah, nice.

• 12:54Speaker 02

  And and they own all those cars on property. They have a I would say a car museum on property.

• 13:00Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 13:01Speaker 02

  Rolls, Bentley, Porsche.

• 13:03Anthony Pompliano?

  Yep.

• 13:04Speaker 02

  So I was driving the Porsche. I didn't know how to drive stick, so I had to learn how to drive stick before I got there. So I'm in Jupiter like a week before filming, like in my buddy James McGrath Jeep, like stalling out in the middle of the street like. I'm like, yo, I'm screwed. Like, I'm not going to get it working. Fast forward to the first night. I had to drive maybe a hundred yards. That's it. Like, alright Matt, like just pull up. Bro, I couldn't get the, like I couldn't.

• 13:28Anthony Pompliano?

  How many takes did it take?

• 13:29Speaker 02

  It took like 10 minutes. They're like, they're like, they're like, forget it. We're gonna push him up. They were gonna push me. They had production people behind the car, ready to push me into the frame and then run out. And I was gonna act like I was driving out. There's no way we're doing that. Like, I'm gonna get this thing going. And then like last try, like I finally got it in gear and I'm like speeding in. But uh, yeah, no, I learned how to drive stick in it, so.

• 13:50Anthony Pompliano?

  Alright, and then clothes, those uh, they got like a whole like wardrobe and like a whole team that's like there to make you, you know, look fashionable or what?

• 13:57Speaker 02

  They got a whole, they got a whole team and um.

• 13:59Anthony Pompliano?

  That's what I need.

• 14:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, I need it too. Like, obviously I uh, I'm not the most fashion for person and I'm all about comfortability. So like, uh, if they weren't having me get into these clothes, then I'd be wearing sweats. And I don't think that that's the proper attire.

• 14:12Anthony Pompliano?

  Well, it may have made the show even more entertaining, right? They're like, oh, this guy refuses to wear the tocs. He refuses to wear, he's just wearing sweat, sweatsuit.

• 14:19Speaker 02

  Rose ceremony like a velour jumpsuit? Like, that would be my vibe. It's like something super comfy.

• 14:25Anthony Pompliano?

  How scripted is it?

• 14:27Speaker 02

  Uh, I wouldn't say scripted law. I think that um, I think that people would be surprised at how um, how interesting and how wild reality is opposed to making up or trying to compile things that uh, that people think would be a good show. So like, as things play out in real time, that's crazier than anyone could imagine doing and like scripting. So uh, there wasn't a lot that had to be added into the mix for it to be uh, drama and things that were taking place.

• 14:58Anthony Pompliano?

  And there's a lot of drama. Uh, I didn't realize how much drama goes into this stuff. Uh, how much of like the actual show that gets aired is that like on a percentage basis? Is that like 5% of everything that happened? Is that 80% of stuff that happens? Like, just how, I guess, compressed do they actually have to make the experience so they can fit it in TV?

• 15:17Speaker 02

  Well, that's a great question, Pomp. It's like, you're out there filming for like almost two and a half months. So it's like. Every if you asked every single woman who was out there, they're gonna wish that they had. Oh, they should have put this in and they're gonna ask me like there's like. Good luck to whoever's job that is to make a cohesive story include everything that everyone wants in there. Because you have hours, days, weeks of footage to go through. So I think they do a really good job of just making it work with. All the footage they have and trying to tell that story that is gonna resonate with people.

• 15:47Anthony Pompliano?

  How far into the two and a half months were you like, yo, I know who it is like, like I know who the winner is gonna be.

• 15:53Speaker 02

  Oh, man.

• 15:54Anthony Pompliano?

  And don't say two and a half months.

• 15:58Speaker 02

  It's funny like you have you have your eye on a few like that first night where you're just like.

• 16:04Speaker 02

  It's like you have this connection and you're like, I need to make sure that this feeling is real and it's. It's validated over the course of one on one dates and these group dates that you're having. So like, I would say that.

• 16:19Speaker 02

  I would say I knew I had an idea pretty early. Yeah, I had an idea pretty early. But then it's hard because they have you add people to the mix.

• 16:26Anthony Pompliano?

  I was gonna say, then it feels like they just like they're throwing a kind of curveballs at you throughout the entire show, right? They had a bunch of other girls show up, then they had somebody who just came in, I think for like a night. And like, as this is all happening, are you finding out like at the same time that everyone else on the show is finding out?

• 16:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's it's.

• 16:43Anthony Pompliano?

  They're not like, yo, Matt tomorrow, like curveball.

• 16:44Speaker 02

  No idea. And and I think that's what makes it exciting for everybody. And that's what where you get the realist raw reaction out of myself, you know, because if I knew that someone was coming, then I could be like. Whoa, like, you know, it's like, I didn't want any of that. And I don't think they wanted that from me either. So. Whenever people would pull up like.

• 17:02Anthony Pompliano?

  Did you know the girls that were gonna be on the show before you actually started filming?

• 17:05Speaker 02

  I had no idea.

• 17:06Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, really?

• 17:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, because.

• 17:09Speaker 02

  By the time I got into the property, like my phone was gone, my laptop, I didn't have any connection to the outside world. So when that information is being released.

• 17:16Anthony Pompliano?

  They just take it from you? They're just like, no, you can't have this?

• 17:19Speaker 02

  Pretty much. They're like, it's funny because like you think that they forget. It's like, all right, we're gonna get your phone in a few weeks. It's like, whatever. Like, they're not gonna come for it. And then, like, it's clockwork. All right, like, give it up. And then, yeah, they just take everything. But, I mean, I say that, and I think it's good because if if you had a line to the outside world, then it wouldn't be the same experience.

• 17:40Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. Are you able to talk to like friends or family or like, like, uh, it sounds crazy, but like, in jail, yeah, you don't have a phone, but like, there is a phone that you can go use, right? And maybe you only can use it for 20 minutes a day, but like, you can communicate with people outside. Is there some equivalent of that here?

• 17:55Speaker 02

  You know what's funny? So.

• 17:57Anthony Pompliano?

  You're like, yes, that's exactly what it's like. And they made me pay to use it.

• 18:02Speaker 02

  Bro, you, after a while, it's, it's, it's honestly liberating not having your phone. Because we're, we're tied to it. So like, outside of like, wondering how like my family and friends are doing, um, unless there's like some major

• 18:19Speaker 02

  event or accident, and I didn't really wanna be on my phone or be communicating with anybody because I liked how, like, I think in normal life, every five or 10, maybe even every two or three minutes, we're checking our phone. Like, if you were to get in the pool.

• 18:32Anthony Pompliano?

  You ever looked at how many times, uh, there's a thing on iPhone? How many times you pick it up or the screen lights up?

• 18:38Speaker 02

  No. There's somewhere to look at that?

• 18:40Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, it's bad. I looked once. I actually, I'm gonna say this and people are gonna freak. I think like one time I looked, it was like 700 times a day.

• 18:45Speaker 02

  You're lying.

• 18:46Anthony Pompliano?

  I swear. And, I mean, because like notifications, right? So then I started shutting notifications off, like, whatever. But like, if you just sit there for an hour, right? And you think of how many times you pick up your phone, it's like four or five times more than you think you really do.

• 18:57Speaker 02

  A lot.

• 18:57Anthony Pompliano?

  Right? Because you're like, oh, I pick up my phone once an hour.

• 18:59Speaker 02

  Exactly. But that's how it was when I got back. So like, when I got my phone back, I wasn't used to like, having to text people and call. So I was just, and then you kind of get worked back into just checking it constantly, which I don't like, but, you know.

• 19:13Anthony Pompliano?

  What do you check when you wake up? Like, what's the first app or website?

• 19:16Speaker 02

  That's a great question. The first thing I check is Twitter.

• 19:18Anthony Pompliano?

  Matt, this is a theme here. I only ask good questions.

• 19:22Speaker 02

  I would say the first thing I check is Twitter because that's where I go for my news.

• 19:25Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 19:26Speaker 02

  So I'll check, I'll see what's trending and then I'll see, there's a bunch of hashtags that I follow. Uh, some stuff in crypto, some stuff in sports and then politically, uh, and then I'm, I'm caught up. So I check everything to make sure that I'm not like, because there was a time where I was traveling once and I was off the grid for like four hours and I put out a tweet and it wasn't insensitive, but it was based off of what, where the country was at that time. People were like, yo, do you live in a, in a, in a hole? And I was like.

• 19:54Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, because you, you didn't realize something else was going on.

• 19:56Speaker 02

  Going on. I had no idea.

• 19:58Anthony Pompliano?

  Cause I read the room.

• 19:58Speaker 02

  Exactly, exactly.

• 19:59Anthony Pompliano?

  It's not what you said. It was just more of like, hey, uh, it's kind of like a brand, right? They got a scheduled tweet. All of a sudden something bad happens and then they're like, hey, go buy peanuts.

• 20:07Speaker 02

  Oh, bro. It was, that was, you couldn't be more spot on. That's how it was. And, and so now I'm in a habit of like, okay, before I do anything, like, let me see where we're at. Like, oh, okay. Like I'm, I'm gonna stay off social.

• 20:17Anthony Pompliano?

  Is that crazy though, that that's the world we live in where like literally we wake up in the morning and we're like, all right. Where are we in the spectrum of, you know, today, right? Are we in like where everyone's outraged about something? There's some like catastrophic event that happened or like, no, we're good. Okay. Fine. I can go live my life.

• 20:31Speaker 02

  Right. I think that, I think it ebbs and flows. Like I think that it's a cycle that we're in. And it's something that we talked about, uh, before we got on is, is there's going to be a point where the people canceling everybody are the ones that are getting canceled. And I think until that happens, like we're going to be in this space where everyone's kind of walking on eggshells. And in some instances, rightfully so, because there's things that people have been getting passes on for far too long. But then there's other instances where it's like, okay, um, we need to give people a space to have conversations and not be critical about them. And, um, I think that we're going to find that balance as we continue to ebb and flow.

• 21:03Anthony Pompliano?

  Is it unfair that like social media stuff almost requires or, or like is demanding everyone to be perfect? Like i- is it better off? We just say, hey, look, humans aren't perfect. Like everyone has mistakes. They say stupid shit. We're all actually pretty dumb compared to like, you know, like computers or whatever. And so like, let's just admit that we're all flawed. And then like, let's work to get better together rather than say like, no, the expectation or default is perfection. And if you're not there, then like you literally get canceled.

• 21:28Speaker 02

  I mean. I think that what I try to do is remind the people who follow me and the people that I interact with is that I am all those things. I'm not a perfect person. I'm continually gonna, I'm continually gonna make mistakes. And if they're, if they're coming to me for XYZ, just to give that disclaimer that, you know, like, um, as much as I try to be the model citizen, like there's things that I will do and say that constantly make me fall short. So like, just have grace on me and I'm gonna have grace on y'all. Uh, but.

• 21:56Anthony Pompliano?

  But that, it, the expectation study is so important, right? It's like, if you go into it knowing like, hey man, you're gonna make mistakes, I'm gonna make mistakes. And then you make the mistake, like, well, yeah, I told you I was gonna make mistakes.

• 22:05Speaker 02

  Right, right, right.

• 22:06Anthony Pompliano?

  Rather than, I think a lot of people, especially as they get bigger audiences, like, I'm perfect.

• 22:09Speaker 02

  Right.

• 22:10Anthony Pompliano?

  Right? Like, oh, I got the perfect Instagram photo. Every tweet has been passed through seven PR filters.

• 22:14Speaker 02

  Right, right, right.

• 22:15Anthony Pompliano?

  Then you're like, wait a minute, like, you cheat on your wife? Like,

• 22:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:19Anthony Pompliano?

  Hey, you were, you were supposed to be up here, right?

• 22:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:21Anthony Pompliano?

  And you start to like, I mean, look, we just talked about, Bill Gates is probably the best example. Like, there was this whole, you know, hey, I'm a philanthropic, you know, person, I got this, whatever. And then you find out, and you're like, well, hold on a second. Those are actually, in many cases, uh, they're not great.

• 22:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:36Anthony Pompliano?

  But that story is as old as time in terms of people, you know, just doing dumb stuff.

• 22:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:41Anthony Pompliano?

  But it's almost like the, the bigger they are, the more we put them on a pedestal, the harder they can fall.

• 22:45Speaker 02

  I think you bring up an interesting point, Pom, and that's that the more authentic and organic you are on your social platforms, the more, and not, maybe not grace, but the more open to those things type of happening.

• 22:58Anthony Pompliano?

  Understanding.

• 22:58Speaker 02

  Understanding, exactly. Because if you're, if you're, if you're posting imperfect pictures of yourself, like, oh, yo, this guy is just as ugly as I am. Or it's like, oh, this guy has like nose hairs, like, it's just like, things that you wouldn't think that someone in the limelight would wanna post about themselves. Like, the more relatable you are, the more people are gonna have an understanding of where you're coming from, opposed to being this like angel. And then like, that fall is gonna be hard because it's like, I knew they weren't perfect.

• 23:21Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, yeah. Well, it's also, I think there's a, there's this element of like, the more people preach about like ethics and, um, honesty and integrity and like all these things that like everyone covets and we think are really important skills or, um, kinda values.

• 23:35Speaker 02

  Right.

• 23:35Anthony Pompliano?

  If somebody's out there every day just pounding the table, I've learned over time, like, They're doing some sketchy shit.

• 23:40Speaker 02

  Right, right, right.

• 23:41Anthony Pompliano?

  But I don't know when the shoe drops. I don't know if it's in six months or literally 10 years. But at some point, that person is going to be exposed.

• 23:48Speaker 02

  A hundred percent.

• 23:49Anthony Pompliano?

  And it's just because there's, there is the projection, right? It's the belief that like, oh, I'm not this person. So if I project to be that person, then everyone, I fooled them.

• 23:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:57Anthony Pompliano?

  Right? It feels like that's actually like the, the bad part of it.

• 23:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I see a lot of that and I try to be cognizant of that as I'm dealing with friends, people close to me who are going through stuff like that because I know that you're one bad decision away from.

• 24:11Anthony Pompliano?

  Bro, you have a hat on that says Bandit. Like, like no one could think that you're perfect.

• 24:16Speaker 02

  Yo, I love this hat. I won't take it off.

• 24:20Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, uh, so as you guys are finishing the show, uh, you finally let everybody else know what you've known for a little bit, right? Is, uh, is Rachel's gonna be the, uh, the winner.

• 24:28Speaker 02

  Right.

• 24:29Anthony Pompliano?

  Um, is she happy about that? Like, did she want to win? By the way, we're having this conversation. She's in the room. So I'm gonna put you on the spot. Rachel, shout out. Just, I'll get some answers for you.

• 24:37Speaker 02

  Shout out to Rachel. I, um, I've never done an interview with her right here before, so this'll be interesting.

• 24:41Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, even better. All right, perfect.

• 24:46Speaker 02

  I think she was excited. You know, I was definitely excited because we've had, uh.

• 24:50Anthony Pompliano?

  I'm sorry, I'm just laughing at the fact that you're like, I think she was excited.

• 24:55Speaker 02

  Like, because.

• 24:56Anthony Pompliano?

  Can you feel the heat of her just staring at us?

• 24:58Speaker 02

  I can, yeah. I'm getting, I'm getting a burn right here.

• 25:00Anthony Pompliano?

  We'll, we'll get it that over. Go ahead.

• 25:02Speaker 02

  Because we, there's so much of our relationship that we want to celebrate and share with everybody. And we've had to hide and be in hiding because we don't want to ruin, uh, this experience as it's airing for everybody else. So we're, again, walking on eggshells so that we're not giving things away. But I'm constantly doing bonehead stuff to like, give it away. Like I was listening to one of her playlists on Spotify.

• 25:23Anthony Pompliano?

  And people figured it out?

• 25:24Speaker 02

  Dude, people figure out everything.

• 25:25Anthony Pompliano?

  Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on. Uh, all right. So listen to the context. The show ends, right? Uh, you've picked Rachel. Rachel's the winner. Um, you guys like get released to the wild, essentially, right? Like back into society.

• 25:36Speaker 02

  Right.

• 25:37Anthony Pompliano?

  Uh, and you're told in November, uh, you said that nobody can see you together until March.

• 25:43Speaker 02

  Right.

• 25:43Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay. What happens for four or five months, right? You're so excited, all this stuff. What do you do for five months?

• 25:51Speaker 02

  Well.

• 25:52Anthony Pompliano?

  Other than listen to her playlist on Spotify?

• 25:55Speaker 02

  That's a, you know.

• 25:56Anthony Pompliano?

  That's like the old CDs, remember like in middle school, girl would like write on it and give you the CD?

• 26:00Speaker 02

  If you really liked somebody, you would burn a CD for them, right?

• 26:02Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, facts.

• 26:03Speaker 02

  They had a playlist for them. Uh, but I think me and Rachel's relationship was a little bit different because a lot of things happened, you know, like, um, we would, uh, from a standpoint of like what we did together, like, we couldn't leave the house. So like you're limited to, we watched a bunch of movies. Uh, we worked our way through Disney plus, like Rachel's the biggest Marvel fan there is. So like she's giving me, uh, like a high level graduate education on the history of all these different characters and I'm trying to catch up.

• 26:31Anthony Pompliano?

  It's basically like Bachelor for Kids, you know, to some degree, right? Different players, got different skills.

• 26:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, it was, that was a lot of fun though. We, we, we, we got to do things like that, that, you know, if we had the opportunity to do things outdoors, we probably, probably wouldn't have spent as much time doing. And then we, there was like rough patches on our relationship, you know, like we, uh, we actually, uh, broke up for a moment while the show was airing. And then after the show aired, um, and the finale happened, um, we found ourselves back to, well, we're back together now.

• 27:03Anthony Pompliano?

  When, when you break up, is that like, uh, uh, what a normal person would think of as a breakup? Or now that everyone in the world watches, is it like something different? Like going back to like, is, like, you're still a human, right?

• 27:14Speaker 02

  Right.

• 27:15Anthony Pompliano?

  So is she, I think. Like when you guys like have, uh, good or bad times, like it's the same thing in any relationship that you had before the show.

• 27:23Speaker 02

  Right.

• 27:23Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. Uh, when you guys get back together, is that like a 2 a.m. you up text that like a normal person would send? When they're drunk? Or is that like a, hey, you know, uh, we saw each other somewhere for an event? Like, how does that happen?

• 27:37Speaker 02

  Uh, well, I think that's, it's an interesting question because there was.

• 27:41Anthony Pompliano?

  If you tell me you up text right now, I'm gonna die.

• 27:45Speaker 02

  Definitely not a you up text. Uh, it was, it was, it was honestly, um, a commitment that we had made to each other that we were going to work on the relationship and there became, there came a point in time where, uh, it was evident that my working on the relationship looked different than Rachel's because, um, I wasn't really honoring that, um, commitment that I made to working on our relationship and, uh,

• 28:11Speaker 02

  It was just a come to Jesus meeting that I have with Rachel where she's like, if you're gonna make this work, then like, like, let's do it. But if you're not gonna make it, make it work, then like, then I'm gonna let you do your own thing. And um, that's really all I needed.

• 28:23Anthony Pompliano?

  Is that an ultimatum?

• 28:24Speaker 02

  It was, it was, it was an ultimatum that I needed because I was.

• 28:27Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, it was appreciated, but it was, uh, hey, let me put my foot down.

• 28:30Speaker 02

  Exactly, but it's a.

• 28:31Anthony Pompliano?

  My, my wife's in the room too. She does that all the time. But like, not over like, hey, the relationship, like, you better take the trash out or, you know.

• 28:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, no, no. It was, it was what I needed and it, and it's, um, it's, it's been great.

• 28:43Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. Uh, best thing about her and most annoying thing about her?

• 28:48Speaker 02

  Ooh, that is.

• 28:50Anthony Pompliano?

  She, she's not listening, don't worry.

• 28:53Speaker 02

  Put your headphones in. Um, the best.

• 28:56Anthony Pompliano?

  She got, she looked real excited when I asked that question. Like she, like that was exactly what she came for.

• 29:00Speaker 02

  Right? Oh, no, that's funny. Um.

• 29:03Anthony Pompliano?

  Well, you gotta answer still.

• 29:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, no.

• 29:07Speaker 02

  Ooh, it's hot in here. Um, no, I would say the best thing about Rachel is, is her heart. You know, she's, she's the most kind, caring person, understanding I've ever met. You know, everything we've been through, um, everything she's been through, she's stuck right by my side and, um, she's continued to have a positive attitude towards everything and, um, it's one of the many things I love about her, but, um, I have a list of things that I don't like about her.

• 29:35Anthony Pompliano?

  No, not, not that you don't like just the most annoying thing she does.

• 29:38Speaker 02

  The most annoying thing, um.

• 29:42Anthony Pompliano?

  That thing, the thing you just thought of right there. What was that thing?

• 29:46Speaker 02

  Um, the most annoying thing, oh, I got it. So, um.

• 29:50Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, that was a good one. Whatever that was, that was a breakthrough moment.

• 29:53Speaker 02

  So I'm, I'm really particular about the laundry.

• 29:56Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay. In what way?

• 29:57Speaker 02

  And, and like, I don't like to dry my stuff because it fits me a certain way because like, I have long pants and shirts that I want to fit. I don't want my.

• 30:05Anthony Pompliano?

  I thought you were gonna tell me that you only wear dirty clothes or something.

• 30:09Speaker 02

  No, I don't like, like, I like to air dry a lot of stuff. So like, I did my laundry separate from Rachel. And then Rachel did her laundry and she puts her laundry in my laundry. Okay. Like, not a big deal.

• 30:22Anthony Pompliano?

  Like in the washer or in the dryer?

• 30:23Speaker 02

  In the dryer.

• 30:24Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, so like, that's violating the air dry, because now we're going in the dryer?

• 30:28Speaker 02

  But, but it's not just that. It's that she, she continued to dry the clothes for three days. So like, now the clothes have been drying for the past week. And I'm like, yo, Rachel, like, are you playing on?

• 30:39Anthony Pompliano?

  Same clothes.

• 30:39Speaker 02

  Same clothes.

• 30:40Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 30:40Speaker 02

  I'm like, I'm gonna have to donate my shirts to Stuart Little because none of my stuff fits anymore. Like, I'm gonna have to make these pants capris.

• 30:47Anthony Pompliano?

  For the longest time, I thought the dryer was just a replacement for the iron, right? Like, if you got a wrinkled ass shirt, you just put a little water on it, throw it in the dryer.

• 30:53Speaker 02

  That's how, that's how Rachel utilizes it. She'll put it on like fluff mode. And I didn't, I didn't even know that was a thing. I just thought you dry clothes in there. But, uh, you know, it's, it's, uh, it's not that, it's not that deep. But I like to give her a hard time about it because, uh,

• 31:07Anthony Pompliano?

  If that's the biggest thing that annoys you, then you're doing all right.

• 31:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I would say so.

• 31:10Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. Uh, what's the Spotify playlist? What, what happened here?

• 31:15Speaker 02

  So I thought it was a private playlist.

• 31:17Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 31:18Speaker 02

  But it wasn't. It was a public playlist. And when, I think when you're on the computer, if you're on Spotify on the computer, you could see if you're following me on Spotify, whose playlist I'm listening to. So I was listening.

• 31:28Anthony Pompliano?

  That's some creepy shit.

• 31:29Speaker 02

  Bro, you, I mean, Bachelor Nation's its own beast, you know what I mean? And you've got a decent amount of-

• 31:34Anthony Pompliano?

  It's like private investigators.

• 31:35Speaker 02

  Right, right. But like, another thing, Pom is like, like, I'll post like, parts of a song and like a workout I'm doing or at the beach or eating. And people are like, yo, what's your song? So like, people are constantly going to your, so you've got a decent amount of people following you on these, these social channels. So it wouldn't be out of the ordinary for them to be online, be like, oh, what's Matt listening to? Wait, wait, no. You know, it's like, he's listening to Rachel's, like, he's giving it away. So it's like, by, like, on accident.

• 32:03Anthony Pompliano?

  You get a call from the producers, they're like, yo, get the hell off Spotify?

• 32:05Speaker 02

  You know what? I get, I, you, you start getting DMs, like, um, like, uh, some are nice and some are like, hey, just a heads up, like, you should probably get off. Oh, good looks, like, like off it, you know what I mean? And then, and then you like, you try to double down. So you try to find someone else who has a playlist. And then you're like, yo, I'm also listening to her playlist. I'm listening to his playlist. It's like, wait. You gotta throw people off a little bit, but um, it was, it was no secret.

• 32:30Anthony Pompliano?

  Did you ever think you'd spend your life trying to figure out what playlist to listen to to throw off? Throw off people?

• 32:36Speaker 02

  Eh, this past six months, I've, I've spent a lot of time doing things that I never thought I'd end up doing.

• 32:40Anthony Pompliano?

  What's the craziest thing you guys did to uh, hide the fact that you guys were together during those like five, six months when uh, you weren't allowed to be seen together?

• 32:48Speaker 02

  Um, I think the craziest thing would be uh, the outfit changes.

• 32:53Anthony Pompliano?

  Alright, what does that mean?

• 32:54Speaker 02

  So like whenever, like if, if, if Rachel and I were together and we wanted to go to a Trader Joe's or we wanted to go to um, what's that pasta place that I like in um, California?

• 33:09Speaker 02

  John and Vinnie's. I love John and Vinnie's. Their pasta is fire.

• 33:12Anthony Pompliano?

  She knew that real quick.

• 33:13Speaker 02

  You knew it, bro. So I'm like, if we were gonna do something like that, it's like hoodie, hat, glasses, like tied up. So you can only see like the shades in the hat.

• 33:24Anthony Pompliano?

  Matt, how tall are you?

• 33:25Speaker 02

  I know, bro. I, I forget.

• 33:27Anthony Pompliano?

  You're not hiding from anybody.

• 33:29Speaker 02

  Bro, I, I forget how tall I am and it's like you can't hide 6'5", you know what I mean? It's like.

• 33:35Anthony Pompliano?

  Alright, so you, so you gotta change your outfit. What, does she change your outfit too?

• 33:39Speaker 02

  She does. Yeah, she does the outfit swaps.

• 33:41Anthony Pompliano?

  Does she go to the dryer to get the clothes?

• 33:47Anthony Pompliano?

  I mean, that's where if she keeps her clothes there, right?

• 33:49Speaker 02

  You know what? She, she is uh, very clean and um, every time we're together, it's, it's, it's either constantly cleaning the kitchen because we're making a mess or it's constantly doing laundry because we're doing activities. So um, I wouldn't be surprised if it was multiple trips.

• 34:06Anthony Pompliano?

  I, I heard uh, recently, I didn't hear, uh, my wife sent it to me, which was probably a uh, negative thing. Uh, and it was a meme on the internet and it was like, uh, I'm moving out of my house. There's a woman posting, it said, I'm moving out of my house after three years. My husband just hit me with, I liked this place. The dish soap was always full.

• 34:25Anthony Pompliano?

  Like he's completely oblivious to the fact that it was getting replaced.

• 34:29Speaker 02

  Right, right, right. Yeah, no.

• 34:32Anthony Pompliano?

  So I feel like there is an element of, you know, you just gotta kind of be cognizant of what's going on.

• 34:36Speaker 02

  I try to be. I try to be. Um, I try my best.

• 34:40Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. So outfit changes is literally the craziest thing you guys have ever done?

• 34:44Speaker 02

  Um, I think that, I think the outfit changes and then like once,

• 34:51Speaker 02

  like once after the show aired, um, like we were technically together, but like, we didn't, we wanted to live our life outside of the, the media and cameras and all that stuff. So like, um,

• 35:08Speaker 02

  we went to dinner like in the cut, like deep in Brooklyn and, um, I wanted to get ice cream after the fact and, um,

• 35:17Anthony Pompliano?

  She didn't want to walk around?

• 35:18Speaker 02

  No, she didn't care. I'm like, uh, I'm like, y'all kind of want to go get ice cream. She's like, all right. She's like, do you want to walk over there? Cause she knows that people are going to see us. I'm like, eh, I'm like, it doesn't bother me. And then we get outside. I'm like, um, you want to put my hoodie on? Like trying to give her like a, like a outfit to like disguise. She's like, no, like I'm not putting your hoodie on. Like we're going to doing this. I'm like, all right, fine, whatever. So like just coming back to grips with the fact that like, we don't have to do that stuff anymore is great. Like we don't have to hide being together and doing activities together. It just makes living life together easier.

• 35:47Anthony Pompliano?

  Is there like paparazzi and like that type of stuff? Or is it mostly just like fans? Cause I saw, I saw you, listen, you don't know that I saw this, but, uh, you were with my boys up in New York with, uh, Seth and Ben Cap.

• 35:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, those are my guys.

• 35:59Anthony Pompliano?

  And you, and you were guys were going down the street like, you know, gang, gang, gang, literally in scooters. I don't know what y'all, you guys were all on different mechanical devices flying down the street.

• 36:09Speaker 02

  Oh my gosh. Yo, Seth, Ben Wilton, those guys are out of control. Like I love kicking it with those guys. I met them down here in Miami.

• 36:17Anthony Pompliano?

  Ben's the one that I know the best. I don't really know the other guys that well, but Ben, like when he, uh, I don't know who posted or whatever I saw. I was like, what are all these dudes hanging out together doing?

• 36:25Speaker 02

  It's funny because Ben has, uh, like people give me a hard time about my means of transportation. Cause I have a one wheel that I love to ride and then I have a super 73 that I'm ripping all over the place. Ben is the same way with, with scooters and everyone in our crew had like some sort of like, Like electronic vehicle that you would use like when you're in like fifth or sixth grade. So it's like, we're like these big humans just like mobbing down Sixth Avenue like on like one wheels and scooters.

• 36:52Anthony Pompliano?

  I literally saw the video and so we put music to it, right?

• 36:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:55Anthony Pompliano?

  And it was like, as you guys were going, someone kind of got up ahead into the side, right? Was filming it. It's like, ah, it's kind of like the Avengers.

• 37:02Speaker 02

  Bro, I wish, man. No, I wish. I wish it was like Avengers. I, uh, but no, that's, that's how we like, that's one of the things I miss about New York. You know, I'm down here in Miami, but, um, I miss the connectivity that I had up there and being able to bounce from one place to another pretty seamlessly. Everything's like right there.

• 37:18Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. What are you gonna do now? Like, what do you want to do kind of moving forward? You got this massive audience. Everyone knows who you are. Uh, you've got Rachel. Uh, I think that she likes you. That seems to like she likes you.

• 37:29Speaker 02

  Some days.

• 37:30Anthony Pompliano?

  Uh, some days, yeah. Well, only when you don't complain about the laundry. What do you want to do now?

• 37:36Speaker 02

  Um, I just want to be a part of meaningful projects, you know? I, uh, I fell in love with hydroponic farming over quarantine. Uh, someone, uh, lettuce grow sent us a farm stand and I'm like, yo, our plants are gonna die. There's no way we can do this ourselves. And when the plants that we planted in this farm stand that Tyler and I were like watching and feeding and, and, um, given water to, sprouted into these massive kale heads and strawberry, uh, these baby tomatoes and straw, like I was, I'm like, yo, if we can do this, literally anybody can. So I'm like, how can we get this in these urban areas that we work with in New York City and across the country? So like, that's something I've been working on is, um, the scalability of the hydroponic space.

• 38:19Speaker 02

  And every time I say hydroponic, people are like, oh, hydroponics.

• 38:23Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 38:23Speaker 02

  I'm like, well, you can grow anything in there, but I'm talking about growing food. So, um.

• 38:27Anthony Pompliano?

  For now. Just kidding, kidding, kidding, kidding, kidding. All right. So you want to do that, uh, and then crypto, all of a sudden I saw you started tweeting about Bitcoin and stuff and we got introduced.

• 38:38Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 38:38Anthony Pompliano?

  Uh, where, what's so fascinating about that?

• 38:41Speaker 02

  So I think that the intro to, to crypto was through, um, my fascination with the NFT space and how I saw people all across the world were being awarded this opportunity. Opportunity to advance not only their professional degree, their professional careers, but just economics, like I could invest in an artist in Uganda. I can invest in artists in Taiwan who wouldn't have that visibility without this platform, without the connectivity and the, what, everything that, everything that you're allowed to utilize through an NFT and the stories that you can tell.

• 39:23Speaker 02

  And through that research, I, you know, Bitcoin and all these, they've always been buzzwords and I didn't really know a lot about it. And when I tweeted something about NFT and one of my buddies reached out to me, John Marbach, and he's like, if, it was like, it was like, it was like Morpheus reaching out to Nia. He's like, he's like, if you want to learn more, like, meet me at my apartment at eight o'clock. I was like, oh shit, like I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm in, like I'm getting invited. So he invites me to his apartment, pump.

• 39:55Anthony Pompliano?

  The secret society has accepted you.

• 39:57Speaker 02

  It was hilarious. Like I get there and John's like, one of the smart, like one of the smarter people I know, went to college together, has a place in New York, gets to his apartment and he just starts unloading about how, like what his involvement in the space is and the different opportunities that are there. And I'm coming at him hard with these, he's just like the opposition, like, well, what about this? What about that? And he's just like, if you read this, if you read that, he had a, he had a answer for every question I had. And then I did my own research.

• 40:25Anthony Pompliano?

  Shout out John.

• 40:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, John was, bro, that's the thing I like about the crypto community though. It's like people want to educate you on, and like not with misinformation, but just like, they want you to understand where they're coming from. And they not only understand, but offer any advice. And I can't say that for other investment vehicles, financial institutions that I've participated in the past, that people are so willing to give information.

• 40:48Anthony Pompliano?

  The other ones don't want you to know.

• 40:49Speaker 02

  Exactly, exactly. Exactly. That's how they make money. So it's like, and just from an economics standpoint, like someone who studied economics, it just made sense. There's a fixed supply. The demand's going to go up, so the price has to follow. And, you know, we're in a volatile time right now. There's probably going to be more, but like the fundamentals of why I invested haven't changed and what I'm using it as hasn't changed.

• 41:15Speaker 02

  As long as those things continue to stay finite, then I'm going to continue to put money into it. So.

• 41:20Anthony Pompliano?

  I think it's smart. You got laser eyes on Twitter now.

• 41:22Speaker 02

  I got laser eyes.

• 41:23Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. When you did that, what did Bachelor Nation say about laser eyes? They were like, yo, Matt's lost it.

• 41:27Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh. It's funny because like, that was like.

• 41:31Anthony Pompliano?

  Like, there's no, there is literally nothing that is similar from like driving a Porsche, looking fly, going to be 20 girls that are competing for you, and then putting laser eyes and being like, buy the dip. Like, those two worlds are completely different.

• 41:44Speaker 02

  Bump. I'm like, and mind you, at this time, like, the Matt that people came to know on the show, like, clean shaven, like, I have, I haven't shaved since the show.

• 41:53Anthony Pompliano?

  You look like Nipsey Hussle a little bit.

• 41:54Speaker 02

  I appreciate that. He's a legend. R and B Nipsey. Yeah. No, I, I get that a decent amount.

• 41:59Anthony Pompliano?

  Really?

• 41:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, I get that decent amount.

• 42:00Anthony Pompliano?

  I feel like I'm smart then.

• 42:01Speaker 02

  I didn't need the cornrows. But, um, but so like, like, the pictures that are, like, they're not hearing from me because I'm not on the show anymore, but like, there's like Matt Spot. It's like a Yeti. It's like, there's like, dude has a beard and he's like leaving Walmart. It's like, like, who is this guy? And then, um, and then so then.

• 42:17Anthony Pompliano?

  When you leave, I'm gonna take a picture and be like, I spotted Matt.

• 42:19Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 42:20Anthony Pompliano?

  Prickle Miami. With some girl. I'm gonna make sure Rachel's face isn't in it.

• 42:25Speaker 02

  Oh, God, here we go. The media storm around that. But, um, so they're seeing that. And then like, the next thing I post is like, like, a picture of me in a tuxedo with laser eyes. So like, all right, this guy's literally lost his mind. Like, what, is he possessed by a demon? Like, what does this even mean? And so, but it's cool because it starts a conversation. It's like, you know, like, to let my laser focus to the moon. Oh, what's that? So it just, it sparks conversation that I want to have around something that I'm interested in, and I'm inviting, um, pushback on so that I can, further solidify or solidify, uh, why I feel I have these strong convictions about, um, this investment and, uh, just the community in general. So.

• 43:05Anthony Pompliano?

  So, the most interesting thing to me is as you kind of, uh, evolve your interests, you learn more about crypto, you learn more about hydroponics, whatever, the audience that you have is literally 180 degree difference than mine. Mine is like, if you look on like, YouTube is like 95% male. Pluna one time saw that. She was like, oh, we gotta get some more. Females in this audience. I was like, listen, it's just like the type of the content really attracts a certain type of person.

• 43:29Speaker 02

  Right.

• 43:30Anthony Pompliano?

  But you have like 90, 95% women.

• 43:33Speaker 02

  Right.

• 43:33Anthony Pompliano?

  Because of the show and all this stuff. And so do you feel like there's an opportunity to kind of expose a different audience to different ideas, right? Regardless of what the ideas are, what the exact audience is, it feels almost like your interests are very different than what they normally would kind of consume, right? I'm assuming most of your audience doesn't have laser eyes.

• 43:53Speaker 02

  Right.

• 43:53Anthony Pompliano?

  Almost 100% of my audience has laser eyes, right? So it's just like such a different kind of, you know, circle of people that you're really introducing a lot of these new ideas to.

• 44:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think that, I think that when you're in a position of influence that you have a responsibility. And I'm, I'm not the chair of the Fed, I'm not controlling.

• 44:14Anthony Pompliano?

  That's a good thing. That's a job that no one can win.

• 44:17Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? Like I, I have very little say on, on anything outside of my own opinions. And when I find something that I think is going to be something that's going to be here for a while, and something that I want to pass on to the students and the families of the students that I work with, then I think that it's a responsibility to at least make people aware of tools that are out there that they could change the trajectory of their life. And especially with cryptocurrency, I think that we've seen historically communities that have been marginalized and discriminated against can't get loans, they can't buy houses, they can't buy cars. And like those barriers to entry don't exist the way they do with traditional financial institutions, the way they do with crypto.

• 45:02Speaker 02

  And that was something that was intriguing to me because if the families that I work with and the kids that we work with have access to these tools now, and something that I only think is going to gain momentum, public onboarding and institutional onboarding going forward, then like it would be an honor for me to be the person that bridges the gap between them. And then replicate that for women who are following me, you know, there's no reason why they shouldn't be a part of this conversation as well. It's, it's conversations that Rachel and I have on a regular basis, you know? She's constantly challenging my thoughts and views on being a Bitcoin maximalist and all other things crypto so that.

• 45:42Anthony Pompliano?

  Rachel, no shit coins, alright?

• 45:46Speaker 02

  And I like it because it helps me come to a better conclusion of of why like what my truths are rooted in. And it helps her understand like, oh, like that makes sense because everything you're saying should make sense. Like, it's not a secret. There's no like serum or.

• 46:00Anthony Pompliano?

  It is the intellectual, most like combat or battle of ideas, right? Where you come in, you're like, hey, I got this idea. She asks you questions. You're almost in some way educating, but at the same time, you're getting a gut check on, you know, do I actually know what I'm talking about? Do I really believe this?

• 46:12Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 46:13Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. Plana thinks that Satoshi's a female.

• 46:16Speaker 02

  That is a popular take and I, I think that, I don't think that she's wrong on that.

• 46:22Anthony Pompliano?

  Really?

• 46:23Speaker 02

  I've heard that before and I.

• 46:25Anthony Pompliano?

  Why do you think that? And I'll tell you why she thinks it.

• 46:28Speaker 02

  I think it because of the rationale that that went into the protocol. And I don't think it's something that would have been, I think that, I think that men are more greedy. And I think that there would have been some sort of way to maybe hoard the potential. I don't know. I just think that it's too fluid of a system for it to be created by one of us.

• 46:46Anthony Pompliano?

  So Plana thinks it could be a female because men are too egotistical, right?

• 46:50Speaker 02

  See?

• 46:50Anthony Pompliano?

  Like somebody would be out there like, yo, I made that shit. That's me. Yes, sir.

• 46:54Speaker 02

  I like that. I like that. That's so true.

• 46:56Anthony Pompliano?

  But, but she's like, no, actually it, it takes a special type of person, right? Which from probability standpoint is more likely a woman than a man. I don't know who it is. I don't want to know, but I think it's interesting to think through like everyone does assume. The other thing that I learned recently is there's only one time ever Satoshi revealed gender.

• 47:17Anthony Pompliano?

  He was signing up for something. I use him because when he signed up, I forget what it was. It asked for birthday and it asked for gender and selected male. Now, could have been throwing it off, right? So you don't know, but like that's the only time ever that there was gender involved in a way that Satoshi, you know, kind of said anything about their.

• 47:37Speaker 02

  What was the birthday?

• 47:39Anthony Pompliano?

  Uh, I forget exact birthday, but I put him in there like, I think mid to late 40s.

• 47:42Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 47:43Anthony Pompliano?

  2010, so like mid to late 50s today.

• 47:45Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 47:45Anthony Pompliano?

  Alright, so I could be, could be, who knows?

• 47:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't think I want to know.

• 47:49Anthony Pompliano?

  No, no, I definitely don't want to know.

• 47:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:50Anthony Pompliano?

  Uh, there's an element of, um, if you don't know, nobody can say, uh, oh, that's far right or far left, or that's a man, that's a woman, that's a white person, a black person, a green person, that's a American, uh, you know, somebody from another country, uh, oh, that's a Christian, that's a Muslim, that's a white. It's just nothing.

• 48:08Speaker 02

  So what would you say to Ethereum then? Like knowing that the protocol?

• 48:12Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, I, I think that it's just, it, it's not bad if people knew. All it does is it just removes one other thing that people could attack, right? There's plenty of people who are like, oh, I don't like Vitalik.

• 48:21Speaker 02

  Right.

• 48:22Anthony Pompliano?

  I, I don't think Vitalik's done anything that's like

• 48:24Speaker 02

  Right.

• 48:24Anthony Pompliano?

  worth attacking or being mad at him or not liking him or anything like that. But it's just like, because they know who Vitalik is, he tweets something. Everyone freaks out, right? Half the people are like, yes, he's, you know, he's the king.

• 48:36Speaker 02

  Right, right, right.

• 48:37Anthony Pompliano?

  People are like, he's an idiot.

• 48:38Speaker 02

  Right, right, right.

• 48:39Anthony Pompliano?

  Like, alright, whatever. So like, that just adds another level of complexity. So it's not so much like you solve a problem as much as, uh, or that it necessarily matters as much as just, it's one less thing for people to attack. And so if everyone's yelling and screaming about Bitcoin and, oh, by the way, the creator of the protocol does something, it just is another kind of attack factor as well. Um, when you think about, uh, the last year of your life, what are the two things that you're like, I cannot believe this happened? Like, maybe one positive surprise and one negative surprise?

• 49:12Speaker 02

  Um, I would say they're probably both related to my experience on The Bachelor. And I would say that the first positive is

• 49:20Anthony Pompliano?

  You're talking about it like my experience of The Bachelor, like it was like a

• 49:23Speaker 02

  But I don't know how to like

• 49:24Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, yeah, I got you.

• 49:25Speaker 02

  I don't know how to refer to it, cause it's like, like, it's like the process or like the experience. And like, I don't like saying it's a show and then like, I don't like saying contestants, cause then it like, takes away like the real

• 49:35Anthony Pompliano?

  Feels clinical.

• 49:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, it doesn't feel like it was real. It's like, oh, I was on like, uh, when I think of show, I think of like fricking Nickelodeon, like getting slimed. Like, I don't think of like, you know what I mean? Like, I don't want that comparison to ever be drawn with a relationship.

• 49:48Anthony Pompliano?

  Jeopardy, stand right up.

• 49:49Speaker 02

  Right, exactly.

• 49:50Anthony Pompliano?

  Or was it Price is Right, right?

• 49:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:52Anthony Pompliano?

  I used to watch that all the time as a kid.

• 49:54Speaker 02

  Exactly, so, yeah, so the process. Um, going through that for me is like, I can't believe that I was able to, you know, I went into it with an open mind and I, I'm, I'm Shocked that I was able to find someone like Rachel that like can put up with me, has the type of heart that she does and was able to form that connection as a skeptic before the show that you could find someone like that on a TV show. And so like that was incredible and that was a great takeaway from the whole experience for me. And then the second thing would be just where we're at as a country and the type of things that we need to do and grow and having the conversations that we need to be had, not only around race, but diversity, inclusion.

• 50:39Speaker 02

  You would think that we would be further along, but it gives me hope that we're having those conversations now. So those are two things that I never would have thought would be

• 50:48Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 50:49Speaker 02

  the byproduct of this experience for me.

• 50:51Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, before we get into rapid fire questions to answer, Rachel, do you know how lucky you are to have this guy? This guy is amazing. I just wanted to be known right now that I said that. So it's on record. You are so lucky to have this guy. All right, so we can keep going.

• 51:05Speaker 02

  Good friend.

• 51:09Anthony Pompliano?

  Just give me $20 later. All right, so. What, what is the most important book you've ever read?

• 51:16Speaker 02

  Oh, man, the most important book, hands down, is the Bible. I read the Bible. I try to read it every day, but that's like kind of what grounds, that's what grounds me.

• 51:23Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay, second, comes from our friends at Eight Sleep. I used to sleep like five, six hours. I was real bad.

• 51:29Speaker 02

  Right.

• 51:30Anthony Pompliano?

  My lovely wife said, hey, sleep is important. I mean, because she didn't want me to keep waking her up and all this stuff. I see Rachel pumping her arms over here. All right. So I got Eight Sleep now, right? And I like this thing so much that I invested in the company because it's a bed that they make super cold on, you can make it cold or hot.

• 51:45Speaker 02

  Shut up.

• 51:46Anthony Pompliano?

  I make it freezing cold. I still make a baby eight, nine hours. It's amazing. And it's got sensors in it that can tell you, you know, how deep was your sleep? How many times did you toss and turn, whatever? Like it tracks all stuff. Only downside is when you first get it out of the box, this is a fun tip for everybody. It also has like a vibration alarm in it. So it said, it asked you when you're setting up the app, it's like, you know, what time you want to wake up? Eight o'clock, first night go to sleep in it. That thing woke up, I swear I thought it was an earthquake. I'm like, ugh. Listen, what the fuck is that?

• 52:17Anthony Pompliano?

  That's only downside, but I love this thing. So what is your sleep schedule? And based on Rachel's reaction, it must not be very good.

• 52:23Speaker 02

  Bro, I could tell you without a shadow of a doubt, if you had asked what Rachel's biggest problem with our relationship right now is my sleep cycle.

• 52:32Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, how many hours do you sleep?

• 52:34Speaker 02

  So I typically sleep five hours, like, like six max, but like.

• 52:40Anthony Pompliano?

  Which I used to think was normal.

• 52:42Speaker 02

  Right? So like, and, and, and I, and to get to that point, like, I don't like to wake, like, if I had to wake up at 5 a.m., I'm not going to set an alarm for 5 a.m. I'm going to set alarm for 2 a.m. because when my alarm goes off at 2, I'm like, oh, thank God I have three hours left. And then I'm going to set alarm for 2:15 because I'm looking at 15, I'm like, oh, I have two hours and 45 minutes left. So I set like 10 alarms and whole time I'm Rachel, I'm, I'm more, probably 20 and I'm waking up, oh, because I hit snooze. And so Rachel's just like having to deal with this. But when I'm with Rachel, she, um, she likes to sleep, she likes the room to be like a bomb shelter, like the, the curtains have to be all the way down. There can't be any light coming into the room. The, the phone faces are down.

• 53:24Speaker 02

  So like, I could wake up if I, if my, and she'll, she'll turn my alarms off. She, she had me set one alarm. And so when that goes off, I'm obviously not going to get on. I'm not going to get up off that. So I wake up, I went to bed at 11 p.m. It's three in the afternoon because I didn't have an alarm. Like, there's no concept of time. It's completely dark and I look at the phone and I'm breathing hard. I'm like, yo, I've, I've been asleep for 11 hours.

• 53:48Anthony Pompliano?

  She's torturing you.

• 53:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, she is.

• 53:53Anthony Pompliano?

  I love is that she has to have a microphone so she can't say anything. All right. So what, so you still only sleep five, six hours or she's got you?

• 53:59Speaker 02

  Well, it depends. So like, like when I, Monday through Friday, like I try to get like five or six hours, but on the weekends, like.

• 54:05Anthony Pompliano?

  Sleeping.

• 54:06Speaker 02

  I'll sleep in a little bit.

• 54:07Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. Last question, and you get to ask me one to finish is aliens. Are you a believer or a non believer?

• 54:12Speaker 02

  Bro, I am a, I am a believer. I think that there's because, um.

• 54:21Speaker 02

  I think that there's well, a bunch of reasons, but I think that there's too much smoke to not be fire like like like I don't know necessarily what they look like, like if they look like ET or if they look like a transformer. But like, there's too much going on for there not to be some sort of like.

• 54:40Anthony Pompliano?

  Did you see the cephalopod test?

• 54:43Speaker 02

  I didn't see that.

• 54:43Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, man. I haven't talked about this on the podcast in a long time. So cephalopod, I don't even know. If you show me 10 things, I couldn't tell you what a cephalopod looks like, but it's something in the ocean. And they gave it an intelligence test designed for like four year olds or something and it passed.

• 54:56Speaker 02

  You're lying.

• 54:57Anthony Pompliano?

  I swear. And I, by the way, I don't know what's in the intelligence test. I don't want to know. Uh, I don't know how you administer an intelligence test to a fish or whatever. I don't want to know that either. But all I know is that I've read multiple reports that it passed the intelligence test.

• 55:10Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 55:10Anthony Pompliano?

  And so, uh, when I think of alien, I always think of like out in space, right? But there is shit in the ocean that scares the hell out of me.

• 55:17Speaker 02

  Hey, me too. Rachel's afraid of sharks.

• 55:19Anthony Pompliano?

  Sharks? Yeah. You think sharks or octopus are scarier? Like the octopus feels like it can fuck you up pretty bad.

• 55:26Speaker 02

  So you know what? You know what? That's actually hilarious to say that because what's that documentary?

• 55:32Speaker 02

  There's a documentary called My Octopus Teacher and like, and now like we can't eat octopus. If you eat octopus, then you're canceled. Uh, so I have to watch the documentary. I might feel the same way. So I can't even speak to that yet. I haven't even watched it yet. But like apparently, uh, you, yeah. Octopus teacher, you gotta watch it.

• 55:48Anthony Pompliano?

  Can you eat sharks though? If we don't like them?

• 55:50Speaker 02

  Yo, sharks are endangered. Yeah, you can't eat sharks either.

• 55:53Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, have you ever seen the, uh, the viral video of the woman, uh, who's in her car? And I don't know if she's driving or just sitting there and she's like, I've been telling y'all, y'all want to go to the beach? No problem. Go to the beach, but don't go in the shark's house because if the shark comes in my house, I'm eating it. So if you go in the shark's house, shark's gonna eat you.

• 56:07Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 56:08Anthony Pompliano?

  It's all, it's like a two minute video. This shit is hysterical.

• 56:12Speaker 02

  That's a great way to think about it.

• 56:13Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, don't go in the shark's house. Respect the sea.

• 56:15Speaker 02

  You know what's crazy, Pomp? When I was in Jupiter, there was a, uh, I was living in Jupiter over quarantine. There was the biggest tiger shark I've ever seen in my entire life on video. Uh, there's this guy, he's just paddle boarding, maybe 50 feet offshore.

• 56:33Speaker 02

  Maybe fifty, sixty feet offshore, this dude's paddle boarding and he, and he puts his GoPro under the water. I pro, I, I don't, maybe fifteen, fifteen, twenty foot long tiger shark that has a, a whole hammerhead shark in his mouth, ripping it up. And this is underneath his paddleboard, bro. Like, he's just paddleboarding, there's people playing on the beach, and like, yo, I'm gonna send you the video. Video is crazy.

• 56:56Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't go in the shark's house.

• 56:58Speaker 02

  It's a shark's house. So I get, I get why people would be, yeah, I'm good on that.

• 57:02Anthony Pompliano?

  Like, I like to look at it as nice, you know, go, there's a breeze, but yeah, going inside, I'm good. Just go to the pool. Alright, what question you have for me to finish up?

• 57:09Speaker 02

  Um, if you could tell yourself, your twenty year old self, one thing, looking back on your whole life experience, what would you tell yourself?

• 57:18Anthony Pompliano?

  Two things. No fucking fear and go bigger. Everything that you do in life, uh, takes the same amount of effort regardless of the output, right? Like, if you wanna accomplish something, you have to work hard at it.

• 57:31Speaker 02

  Right.

• 57:32Anthony Pompliano?

  But if you work hard at accomplishing a small thing, then you get a small reward. But if you work hard at accomplishing a big thing, you get the big reward. So it's kinda like, um, you know, think of it like sports, right? You have to play just as hard in the first game of the season as the championship game, right? If you wanna win.

• 57:47Speaker 02

  Right.

• 57:48Anthony Pompliano?

  But obviously, the championship game's way more important.

• 57:50Speaker 02

  Right.

• 57:50Anthony Pompliano?

  Right? From just a pure, like, the, the payoff of it.

• 57:52Speaker 02

  Right.

• 57:53Anthony Pompliano?

  So, if you wanna actually accomplish things in the world, and you're gonna do the work anyways, like, go after big things.

• 57:59Speaker 02

  Right.

• 57:59Anthony Pompliano?

  Because the asymmetry is so much better. And I think, just like when you're younger, it's almost like, uh, uh, in baseball, like batting average, like, like you wanna hit, bat a thousand. Every time I do something, I wanna be successful.

• 58:07Speaker 02

  Right.

• 58:08Anthony Pompliano?

  But as you get older, I think you realize, like, slugging percentage is more important.

• 58:11Speaker 02

  Right.

• 58:11Anthony Pompliano?

  I don't need to get a hit every time. But when I get a hit, it's a homerun.

• 58:14Speaker 02

  Right, right. I like that.

• 58:15Anthony Pompliano?

  And so, like, that's a, a framework that I think is just, it's really, really hard when you're younger. And then as you get older and you realize that you're like, damn, I've been doing it wrong the whole time. And like, you go and you look at all these super successful people, right? Like, uh, take Masayoshi Son from SoftBank.

• 58:28Speaker 02

  Right.

• 58:29Anthony Pompliano?

  He's been the richest person in the world twice.

• 58:30Speaker 02

  Right.

• 58:31Anthony Pompliano?

  He ain't the richest person anymore, right? And one time, he literally was the richest person in the world and then lost ninety-nine percent of his wealth. And then came back, right? Like, how do you do that? Like, you just, you always take big swings, right? And so, like, yeah, cool, he probably didn't enjoy the ninety-nineties percent drawdown, but just he was taking big swings, right? Mike Novogratz from, uh, Galaxy Digital, I think he, he's gonna kill me if I get this wrong, uh, I think he's been a billionaire three different times. Billionaire, not a billionaire, billionaire, not a billionaire, billionaire now again.

• 58:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:58Anthony Pompliano?

  And he's now, I think, wealthier than he's ever been. And so it's just like, you just see enough of the data points, you're like, alright, just go big.

• 59:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:05Anthony Pompliano?

  Alright, where can we send people to find you on the internet?

• 59:07Speaker 02

  Oh, man. ABC Food Tours, that's our nonprofit that we work with the students. And we've got our sustainability model going and then-

• 59:16Anthony Pompliano?

  ABCfoodtours.com?

• 59:18Speaker 02

  ABCfoodtours.org and then on any social and then me personally, MattJames919.

• 59:23Anthony Pompliano?

  Alright, and then, uh, obviously if we go to Rachel's Spotify playlist, we'll see you there as well.

• 59:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, anything on Rachel's socials as well because I'm gonna be scouring it, especially the social, Spotify because she has better music than I do, so.

• 59:38Anthony Pompliano?

  Alright, thank you for doing this.

• 59:40Speaker 02

  Absolutely, appreciate you, bro.