Will Bitcoin Survive Quantum Computing? | Jordi Visser

Jordi Visser is a veteran macro investor with 30+ years of experience and the author of the VisserLabs Substack. In this conversation, we break down Chamath’s claim that bitcoin is going to zero, the real quantum computing risk, the historic hedge fund unwind, and why AI is now smarter than all of us. We also discuss using AI as a life coach, genetically modified war dogs, and why Eli Lilly could become the biggest company in America. ==================== Arch Public is an agentic trading platform that automates investment strategies across Stocks, Commodities, ETFs and Crypto. Whether you’re rotating into AI & Gold, allocating to the S&P 500, or accumulating Bitcoin, Arch Public executes your plan 24/7 without ever taking custody of your assets or funds. Sign up today at https://www.archpublic.com, and start your FREE automated trading strategy! ==================== Today's episode is sponsored by Abra. Hold bitcoin with a plan: explore bitcoin-backed borrowing for liquidity or a BTC-denominated yield strategy managed by Abra Capital Management. Learn about options, terms, and risks at abra.com/pomp https://www.abra.com/pomp. Borrowing may trigger liquidation; investment strategies may lose principal. Paid sponsorship. Not investment advice. ==================== Uphold is the easiest way to buy and sell crypto unlike any other platform allowing you to trade in just one step between any supported asset. Check them out at https://www.uphold.com/pomp/This video includes a paid sponsorship with Uphold. I’m compensated by Uphold for promoting its products and services and may receive commissions from referrals. Terms apply. Not available in all jurisdictions. Digital assets are risky and may result in the total loss of your capital. ==================== 0:00 - Intro1:01 - Chamath says bitcoin is going to zero (is quantum a real threat?)10:55 - Marc Andreessen on why people over 35 fear new technology14:30 - The historic hedge fund unwind & what’s driving the AI sell-off20:03 - AI is now smarter than you (using Grok to sell real estate)23:57 - Top law schools are banning AI & what it means for your kids28:48 - Active vs passive AI usage & running a company on AI agents34:06 - How to use AI as a weekly life coach39:53 - Building shared AI memory43:28 - Warp Sciences, Palmer Luckey & genetically modified war dogs46:21 - Why Eli Lilly will become the biggest company in America

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:00Speaker 03

  So quantum is a hardware issue. I want everyone to hear that because we're going through this with AI right now. What's slowing down AI development? What's slowing down AI usage? It's hardware. It's the physical world. That's where quantum's pain point is. Will it get there? He says 20 to 40 years. Other people say five to seven. Okay, so his point is this. We will have time to respond to it. Now, part of what Chamath said, which is true today is...

• 1:31Anthony Pompliano?

  What's going on, guys? Today's conversation with Jordi Visser is a classic. In this conversation, we talk about quantum computing. Is Bitcoin going to zero? What's going on with the hedge fund unwind? And then we get into how we're actually using AI. What is so inevitable about this technology? How's it going to impact your portfolio? Then we talk about warp sciences. We talk about war dogs, sharks with lasers, all kinds of crazy stuff that's going to get you thinking much more about where are we headed? How should you be allocating your capital? And maybe what are some of the areas that you should stay away from as well? Here's why this conversation with Jordi Visser. Hope you enjoy it. All right, Jordi, let's just start with the big topic. Chamath Palpatia said that Bitcoin's going to zero.

• 2:08Speaker 03

  The big topic.

• 2:09Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, do you agree or disagree? I mean, that would be scary, right? I got a lot of my net worth in Bitcoin. Are you worried?

• 2:14Speaker 03

  I'm not worried.

• 2:15Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 2:16Speaker 03

  But I can tell you my subscribers are.

• 2:19Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 2:19Speaker 03

  And other people that have reached out in X posts that I've done that had nothing to do with Bitcoin.

• 2:26Speaker 03

  Let me give everyone my thoughts on this because first of all,

• 2:32Speaker 03

  Chamath is a podcast person for sure. So viral takes, especially when he's on another show, not his own show, become important to his show and his life. So I'm sure this was part of it. I will leave all the rumors of his own exploration of Bitcoin and how much he'd be worth if he had held what he originally owned or whatever. I don't get into that part. So let me just go through the concept of where my head is with quantum.

• 2:59Anthony Pompliano?

  Because he said it was going to zero because of quantum.

• 3:02Speaker 03

  Because quantum and that this is old technology.

• 3:04Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 3:04Speaker 03

  So here are my thoughts on it. First thing is there's a software issue right now.

• 3:12Speaker 03

  And the amount of hackings that we're having currently, there's cybersecurity alerts around the globe. This week, there was a website one with PHP. Cloud Fair went out and talked all about it. Banks are being hacked at a pace never seen before. And Axios had an article on that this week. I just want to make sure people realize that...

• 3:34Anthony Pompliano?

  The Axios title that we have right here. The Internet's Hidden Security Nightmare and How AI Exposed It.

• 3:43Anthony Pompliano?

  Another one, Scoop. Madison Mills, one of the better AI reporters right now. Scoop, unvetted AI agents are accessing US bank accounts.

• 3:51Speaker 03

  So here's the reason that I've thought about this a long time, but the way that I started before I would allow myself, which was in 2020, to make Bitcoin an important part of my net worth was to understand this concept and get a sense as to what would happen. So the way my brain has dealt with this is very simple. AI agents were known to be coming. And once they got to the level of 12,000, 12 billion, a trillion, all being able to hack your passwords. And that's what I want everyone to think. Right now, you have a gazillion passwords.

• 4:33Speaker 03

  And I'm sure like most people, they use the same one over and over again for many of their sites. That's easily hacked by agent swarms in two seconds. Hell, that's easily hacked by anyone who's trying to get in. But now with agent swarms, everything's being hacked on a regular basis. So a year ago, this was not an issue because we didn't have agent swarms. The reason I'm bringing this up before this, Adam Back, who was involved with the Bitcoin white paper, who's a cryptographer and a PhD in computer science. Go look up what Chamath's background is for this. So if I'm going to take anything seriously, the research that I did was to listen to Adam Back, who you've had on here many times, right?

• 5:16Anthony Pompliano?

  Satoshi.

• 5:18Speaker 03

  Yes. So his point on this is it's a hardware issue. We will eventually get to the point where quantum... So quantum is a hardware issue. I want everyone to hear that because we're going through this with AI right now. What's slowing down AI development? What's slowing down AI usage? It's hardware. It's the physical world. That's where quantum's pain point is. Will it get there? He says 20 to 40 years. Other people say five to seven. Okay, so his point is this. We will have time to respond to it. Now, part of what Chamath said, which is true today, is the community has to come together on solving this problem, which I agree with.

• 6:01Speaker 03

  But you know what speeds up crisis management? A crisis. You know what else speeds up crisis management? A crisis in the current world, which is what we're going through right now. Things are going to move to cryptography and then JP Morgan will be involved in the end game. The fact that all of the banks are now moving to the crypto guardrails, even if it's through, they don't want to fall behind. They now have a vested interest every single day to speed up where the Bitcoin solution is. So if you ask me what the solution is, first of all, cryptography is definitely better than what we're on today. There will be some cryptography base because everything will move there and then we have to find the solution on that side.

• 6:46Speaker 03

  And that is effectively, Adam Back has made it very non-emotional. I watch him. I've listened to him a bunch of times. I listened to him in 2020 and as many things as possible. The same way that I mentioned William Mugayar. I want to find the people that are older, that have experience, that are experts in the topic. So what Chamath said is, one, for headline grabbing. Two, there's some, I don't know, he missed out on a big investment part that he could have been bigger in. So that's part of it. And I really do believe that in the end, he doesn't have the credentials to say what he said. And the irony is, my whole thought has been, which I still believe, is every day we are entering a very difficult period for established companies. I'm going to be on a panel this week where one of the topics is about the difference

• 7:30Speaker 03

  between owning equity and owning tokens. So that is a weird question to me because they're all merging together. What did A16Z do this week with their crypto title and their funds? It's now frontier. Why did they say frontier? Because the difference between crypto and any technology, they've all morphed into it. You can't get around it. And what's the reason that they mentioned in the list? It's what I've talked about repeatedly. The agentic world is here and everything that they're seeing on the front lines, A16Z, they could make no good investments over the next 10 years, but the one thing I know that they have, really smart people that have looked at technology at the beginning stages and they're seeing every development that's happening in the AI native world.

• 8:13Speaker 03

  And if you listen to the interview they did on their podcast this week, which came out today, I'm just telling you, you can't leave and then listen to Chamath and believe what every smart person is involved in right now and know that we still have seven years to prepare for this. So I find the statement as completely just a joke.

• 8:32Anthony Pompliano?

  I have three things. You and I, I think, end up in the same end game of agreeing Bitcoin's not going to zero. Quantum's not going to be... It's a risk that needs to be taken seriously, but it is not going to be the thing that takes down Bitcoin. Knock on wood. But I actually like the fact that Chamath does not have the credentials because I am a subscriber to, he has this thing, Learn With Me. And what my understanding, I don't know all the details, but my understanding is he hired a team, I think out of one of the big consulting firms and was basically like, I want to learn about these topics. Go build me these huge presentations of energy in America and what the problem is, healthcare, you know, whatever.

• 9:14Anthony Pompliano?

  And so if you subscribe, you can get these things and they're like super intense. They're, you know, tens and tens of slides long that basically break down an entire problem and explain it.

• 9:26Anthony Pompliano?

  I talk about stuff all the time that I'm not quote, a quote, a credentialed expert in, right? That part doesn't bother me. Actually, like, maybe there's unique thoughts, et cetera. The part that I think that he maybe is missing on is there's always a cat and mouse game between the good guys and the bad guys when it comes to technology. And what you find is usually the good guys have more money than the bad guys, but the bad guys have more time to think about using the technology. And so in a world of abundance, there's a little bit of a weird thing where now the bad guys have access to lots of intelligence, lots of time, the speeding up of time that you've talked about, right? And so cybersecurity becomes this huge issue. You mentioned some of the things that we saw there.

• 10:11Anthony Pompliano?

  But I still think that the quote, good guys with the money end up being able to resist all of this, even though AI is amazing, all this stuff. And you see that in like, who created this technology that then is being weaponized? Quote, quote, good guys. Let's put a lot of quotes around that, right? But like, people who are not trying to go around hacking websites created technology. So it just feels like this is another thing that is being said about Bitcoin. By the way, Bitcoin is held in strong, $80,000, $85,000. Doesn't matter what happens with oil. Oil is now, you know, 115 or so. There's tons of concerns about the AI trade, huge sell offs, quantum. I mean, we could rattle off 20 things that were said in the last seven days.

• 10:57Anthony Pompliano?

  Bitcoin just doesn't care, which I think you believe is like a strong data point that is going to go higher into the end of the year?

• 11:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think now we saw a small indication of it on, I guess it was Wednesday.

• 11:11Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 11:12Speaker 03

  The only update of really the week, well, no, in the stock market, it was up Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday was down big on Thursday, but on Wednesday, which was following the SpaceX news, you had a very large jump the second that people thought, okay, this must be over. We finally got the confirmation that compute demand is off the charts and Elon's coming to the rescue. It immediately went back down the next day, but yeah, Bitcoin has just held in there. And if I tell people the damage that's been done to hedge funds, I mean, this is a historic month, more so than even July, believe it or not. This is much bigger month than July was.

• 11:49Anthony Pompliano?

  Negative for hedge funds.

• 11:50Speaker 03

  Yes. And, and that's because of the breadth of the, the damage. Before I get into the expanding breadth and the contagion within the hedge fund, I do, I do want to add to something you said, because I do agree that people like Chamath that have a huge listener base, it's good for people to say the things that he said as part of the process, because he also fits into something Mark Andreessen said. If you ask me, the smartest person, the person that I will listen to no matter what, who I believe brings to the table an incredible knowledge of history, a relaxed, you know, response with no hyperbole.

• 12:34Speaker 03

  I, Mark Andreessen is number one for me. Okay. I can listen to him endlessly.

• 12:40Anthony Pompliano?

  He's very smart.

• 12:41Speaker 03

  Yeah. And he's not selling anything. What's the biggest problem with Jensen Huang? At the end of the day, he's talking his book. What's the biggest problem with, with Elon Musk? He's talking his book. And this is a big negative for everyone. When I go through X, like if people attack me, it's because he, he's talking his book.

• 12:58Anthony Pompliano?

  I never talk my book.

• 13:00Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 13:01Anthony Pompliano?

  Sylvia.com, Sylvia.com. Go ahead.

• 13:05Speaker 03

  What Mark said on the podcast, which is something I believe in, but it's the reason that I got involved in Bitcoin in the first place. I've told this story before, but you have to understand when my 13 year old son had turned $700 into $80,000, subsequently losing all of it. Okay. Which I say repeatedly. I knew there was a bubble in 2021, but it also told me that there was something here, because when I asked him how he did this, it was really intelligent. And when you normalize it for a 13 year old, I realized that the gaming that he was really good at was adding to his ability to go use Reddit and Twitter and do research and do this. He was adapting to the times and he believed in Bitcoin. He didn't believe in the S and P 500.

• 13:50Speaker 03

  Now that age bracket, it's still the same. What Mark talked about on the podcast, the A16Z Frontier podcast was, he said, there is an age bracket for technology that has been there. And I forget the book that he referenced, but he basically said, the way it goes is up until, you know, 15 to 25, it's just part of your life. And that's where my son was. So let's assume whatever the age bracket was, 13 to 21, it's just part of your life. Like crypto is just, you know it. AI is something you just know. Then from 25 to 35, you're focused on AI for making money. That's where my son is kind of now is figuring out how he's going to set his life up job wise with using this technology. And then above 35,

• 14:36Speaker 03

  you view it as evil. Any new technology, and that is the whole point about whether it's crypto, whether it's Bitcoin or whether it's AI. That is why people are perma bears on AI. There is zero doubt that AI is the inevitable part of our lives. Like, there's no question about it. It's where all the investments are going. And if the investments are going there, you can have corrections. You can even have the dot com bubble where you get a four year delay between the bottom and then the iPhone, but it's coming. Like, there's no way to get around it. It's going to solve healthcare, all these different issues. So I think when you really break down what you just talked about and where it goes, there is an element of the age thing and Chamath is in that age bracket where psychologically,

• 15:20Speaker 03

  he's already made his money. He has no reason to believe in, in Bitcoin. There's nothing there for him. And as Michael Saylor said, you don't find Bitcoin, Bitcoin finds you. Now, let's go back to the point on the hedge fund side. In France this week, we saw a mass, and this has gone on now for seven weeks, a massive blowout.

• 15:38Anthony Pompliano?

  Careful, careful words you use. You talk about the financial market of the streets.

• 15:45Speaker 03

  True, true, true. We'll leave the, the social aspect alone, but you have French bond yields versus German bond yields or versus the swap curve without getting too wonky, blowing out, which basically means the unwind of a carry trade. So if you were long French bond yields and you were short German, you were getting a spread that was, let's say 125 basis points if you just carried it. So as long as France doesn't default and you carry it for a long time, and this was happening across the curve, you make money. Well,

• 16:19Anthony Pompliano?

  And you do with leverage.

• 16:20Speaker 03

  Yes. And that started to unwind. We started seeing news articles come out, but it has really accelerated this week. In fact, the first four days of this week were just the biggest week, even bigger than the EU crisis week back in 2011, 2012, that whole period there. So you had that, you had the core weave debt. So you had credit that had unwound. The reason that's important is all of the big multi-strats that you get to see, you know, in, that are a hundred billion, whatever, and they're levered 20 times, say. So you're dealing with trillions of dollars of, they're dependent on, if one asset breaks down, it doesn't really matter because you have

• 17:01Speaker 03

  50 other strategies that could make money, relative arbitrage, add deletes, all kinds of different things. But when credit gets hit, fixed income bonds get hit, regions get hit, the diversity, the diversification benefits drop down and you end up seeing what you've seen. And Goldman Sachs reported last week that since 2020, after COVID, there had only been three days that the major strategies, so long, short equity, quant, and then multi-strats, were down more than 80 basis points in one day, all three strategies. So at least 80 basis, it happened three times since COVID. All three of those were this year.

• 17:45Speaker 03

  Well, we had another one on Thursday of this week. This one was greater than 1% for each of them. So that just means that this is not just long, short equity. This is everything going at the same time. And I mentioned that this reminds me of LTCM. It does. It also reminds me of the quant quake back in August of 2007. So I bring that up because as people are watching, like what's happening and going, why, why is the semiconductor stocks down? And I saw something today that the best performing stocks this year, the 20 best performing stocks were down yesterday, like five to 10%. And when you go look at the, they're still up like a hundred plus percent. And most of these are the AI names. So I'm telling everyone listening, number one, I did a video on this. This is not a bubble. AI is not a bubble. It's inevitable. End of story.

• 18:30Speaker 03

  There can be delays and there can be hiccups. And here's the thing, there are no free lunches. And I remember I said this to you back in May and June on, on, on videos, people can go look them up on their own. There are no free lunches in markets. Markets go up and then they correct. And so far, the S and P 500 is still up over 12% year to date. And we just had a massive unwind. I don't know when this is officially going to end, but I will say that yesterday felt exactly like situational awareness day, because it started right after the close on Wednesday. I picked my phone up and as I do before I kind of start getting ready for bed, I looked to see where the S and P futures were, and there was no reason for them to be down close to 30 handles, which says to me,

• 19:12Speaker 03

  there was a fund that was in trouble and we're just kind of going through this thing. I think we're near the end of it. If not, I gave the dates that I thought for people would be the catalyst. One is when we get through the, the hyperscalers, we went through meta. Nothing bad came out in there, but it's still sold off. We have the hyperscalers and then we have the midterms and we have the quarterly refunding announcement. Those would be the three areas. So I think the low for this AI portion will happen with, inside the next two weeks.

• 19:39Anthony Pompliano?

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• 20:23Anthony Pompliano?

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• 20:45Anthony Pompliano?

  Think the uncertainty around the midterms, not uncertainty like fear based, just like who's gonna win? Naturally plays into this. Plus you get the AI fears. And so it's very clear. There's like a bunch of clouds, if you will. The second the midterms occur, the clouds will part, the sun will come up into the end of the year, likely as strong. You mentioned AI is inevitable and I've been thinking a lot. So maybe I will debut my new phrase for the next couple of years. AI is smarter than you, smarter than me, smarter than everybody watching. We have officially reached that point.

• 21:22Speaker 03

  It's smarter than hedge fund managers too.

• 21:24Anthony Pompliano?

  A hundred percent.

• 21:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:26Anthony Pompliano?

  That is the zero to one moment that every single thing in my worldview, I have updated in the last three to four months on the premise that AI is now smarter than me. So how do I give it as much context as possible? How do products change? How do asset prices change? How does the funding rate change? What a hedge funds, all this stuff now boils down to AI is smarter. I always say that investors get one idea in their entire life to invest on, and they just expose it over and over again. Warren Buffett, buy things for less than they're worth. He just did it a bunch of times and built an incredible amount of wealth. You know, if you go and you look at the rent tech guys, there's math and there's inefficiencies, all this. You just go invest.

• 22:09Anthony Pompliano?

  I think that our entire generation, the one big idea is they're never going to stop printing money. I think a one A now though, is there is now technology that is going to be way smarter than us. It's already smarter than us, but it's only going to get worse.

• 22:23Anthony Pompliano?

  I AI pilled a boomer this week. And I want to tell you some of the details because it actually had more of an impact on me than it did on them. There's an individual that I know that piece of commercial real estate, they're trying to sell it. They've been trying to sell it for a while. And I they kind of every once in a while, when I talk to them, they mention it. And I say, you know, let me try to help you. So I took the address and I put it into Grok bot and I said, hey, this thing hasn't sold. I want to try to sell it in the next 45 days, come up with a plan, do the research, you know, all the things you would expect. It did what you would look at it, went and it found comps and it built the whole plan, whatever. And then it did something that I would have never personally thought to do.

• 23:04Anthony Pompliano?

  It went and it looked through all of the local real estate, like land sales. And it gave me a target list of people who have been buying up land in that area. And said, you might want to just call these people and see if they're interested.

• 23:20Anthony Pompliano?

  And I literally, it was like a whoa. And I called up this person and I said, hey, look at how smart I am. I have this list. And then I eventually told them I said, the AI created it. And so I've been thinking about this one moment where I'm like, how many people do you know who have ever listed any piece of real estate, residential, commercial, whatever, have ever thought, maybe I should go build a target list to do outbound sales for the real estate? That's not something that you just like train on. And so the reason I say that is this idea of like AI is inevitable. Well, like if it's smarter than us and it can do things like that, then actually the race is not like just the hyperscalers and building and all this, for people who are not involved in those businesses.

• 24:03Anthony Pompliano?

  It's actually how much penetration can you get AI into your life? How much are you going to use it? And the people who get there first, they're actually the ones who are going to be most successful and have the most productivity and all stuff. But investing wise, let's just shrink it down to that investing world. I know some people who use chat GPT, Claude, whatever, Google on steroids. I think you use it much more advanced than that. But there's somebody out there who's created a, you know, AI agent hedge fund that's trying to day trade, whatever. The further along that curve you get, the better your return should be, the better your finances should be.

• 24:42Anthony Pompliano?

  And it just feels like when you view the world that way, the people who are like, AI is a bubble, AI is not going to happen. They kind of just sound stupid. Right? Like it's, it's like so far behind. It's such a dinosaur world. What are we talking about?

• 24:57Speaker 03

  All right. So let me give you two forks on, on this topic. And I think this is important. In fact, I'm going to direct it towards the parents.

• 25:08Speaker 03

  So first I'm going to use a conversation I had with a friend of mine, uh, who I hadn't seen in a decade was in town. And this person, uh, close to 40, decided to go back to school, went to law school. So my first question was, so how is school, you know what Harvey is? And the person said, yeah, they were in the tech field. Okay. Yeah, I know what Harvey is. Okay. Um, how's that impacting the way you view, since you know it? How is this school, which is a really good school in New York? Dealing with this issue? And the person said, it's, it's incredible. It's almost like they're ignoring it.

• 25:52Speaker 03

  But to make it worse, and I had, I've, I've heard, I've heard a lot of stuff. I've never heard this. Before they enter the classroom, they have to, they can't enter with any technology.

• 26:05Speaker 03

  No phones, no laptops, no nothing.

• 26:09Speaker 03

  This is what they've come up with at the schools.

• 26:11Anthony Pompliano?

  This is a law school.

• 26:12Speaker 03

  This is a prominent law school that every single person listening to this knows. So I don't want to get into the conversation because number one, I trust this person implicitly and they didn't do it for any other reason. In fact, completely the opposite. This person is, I only hang around with people that are very down to earth and can have deep emotional conversations and really enjoy the topic of where things are going. And this was literally like, no, they don't know how to handle it. This is their solution. Their solution is we can't police it. And I understand why, because recording devices, you don't need the professor anymore.

• 26:46Speaker 03

  You just have AI listen to it and then you're taking away the whole thing. But also you don't know whose work is done. And my first response was, you know, who's going to know people that didn't do any work? The people that hire the person, the people like, if you're not using AI in a creative way to get back to your point. You're making a, this is what schools are doing to kids. Okay? This is unacceptable. Like this is unbelievable.

• 27:15Anthony Pompliano?

  For making them raw dog classroom?

• 27:17Speaker 03

  Like, okay, we're, we're teaching.

• 27:18Anthony Pompliano?

  That's crazy.

• 27:19Speaker 03

  You guys have to memorize.

• 27:20Anthony Pompliano?

  Y'all crazy out there. Um, no phone? I'm surprised it's not withdrawal happen in the classroom.

• 27:26Speaker 03

  So let me take what you did and connect it back to that same son I mentioned, who's no longer 13. Okay? He's now a junior in college. So as you go through this whole thing and you listen to what he's saying, so he's on an internship. That internship, he tells me how excited he gets whenever there's a meeting because he enters the meeting. And all he does is listen to the problems and he leaves with a ton of ideas. Because his goal is to please the people by solving their ideas with agentic workflows.

• 28:04Anthony Pompliano?

  Grok's just built the solution by the time the meeting's over.

• 28:07Speaker 03

  And that, he's been doing this now since July.

• 28:10Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 28:11Speaker 03

  They don't want him to go back to school. He and I are talking about whether it makes sense for him to go back to school and finish up or not. If you don't allow your kids to use it, and this is the beauty of it, this whole like reverse engineering now. If your brain doesn't work, when you hear something, you go, I can make money off that. I can make money off that. And you're trying to graduate with a degree where you're going to make money by graduating and being one of like, those days are over. That is not the way this is going to work. And if you listen to what the A16Z podcasts talk about, Mark literally said, the gap between AI native companies and the incumbents has never been wider, like it just keeps getting further apart.

• 28:51Speaker 03

  So you don't want your kids to go to one of these incumbent places. You actually want them to have these entrepreneurial skills that you're describing and create an idea that can monetize and turn into something. If you're a lawyer, you want to embrace using Harvey because Harvey can't replace all lawyers, but it can certainly speed up the process of being a great lawyer. I have a lot of ideas on what to do with my business because I think content keeps going up in value, just like sports teams. But let me rephrase it. Good content. Content where you're actually trying to teach the people, you're trying to not scare the people. And you're actually trying to get them to be empowered. I actually think there's value to that, which is why I started to do this.

• 29:34Speaker 03

  I think when you start thinking about the issues and how you can leverage AI into your business, you start to get more empowered, but you also start to get a realization that there's infinite amounts of ideas of problems that need to be solved. And the reason is because most people don't use AI.

• 29:49Anthony Pompliano?

  It is also, um, I've been thinking a lot about active versus passive usage. So active usage is like I go to chat GPT and I ask it a question I had to type. Passive usage is every meeting is recorded, the AI takes the transcript, creates notes, emails the notes to everybody and, uh, then stores it somewhere so it can be referenced as context later.

• 30:13Anthony Pompliano?

  The passive usage to me is where most of the magic is. We see this with the productivity of instinct, muse, dots, you know, Grok bot, whatever. And so as the world shifts more and more to the technology being available in a passive manner, but like, it's like passive plus automation. You start thinking inside these businesses, like we are going to just have autonomy. Like, like it is going to become this autonomous thing inside of a company. Now, there's a couple of other things that I think are fascinating. I've told you before that, um,

• 30:47Anthony Pompliano?

  we have more agents that work at the public company than we do people, right? Okay. I don't think that that's something for us to like beat our chest about. I think like that's becoming prevalent across a lot of companies. But recently, uh, we started thinking about, okay, we've been using most of the agents for analytics, engineering, you know, things that are more kind of productivity and like product based. Now we're thinking about finance and operations. And so I went to finance operations folks, I said, hey, what would you like? They started coming up with all kinds of use cases that I would have never thought of. And I said, you know, it's interesting. What if I just take, what is essentially a brainstorm? And I just feed it into, you know, whether it's Grok or something else, and then ask it, ideas like this, but make more of them. You know, like what else could we do?

• 31:32Anthony Pompliano?

  It started coming up with a bunch more and like, you just realize you're like, wait a second here. There is this very weird like relationship between the human and the machine where you're just going back and forth, back and forth. But then if you bring this back to the investor and the portfolio, I have a portfolio, I hear the bears yelling and screaming and there are all kinds of things from interest rates, inflation to, you know, capex spending, whatever.

• 31:57Anthony Pompliano?

  But I talked to Dan Ives this week. He went to Korea and I asked him, I said, what would your message to the bears be? And he said, go to Korea. He said, go, go see the demand. You're saying, look at what everyone is saying from the demand side. And so I just am separating the world out. Like, there are people who are demand driven and that's what they're looking at. And they're like, how could we possibly be in a bubble? How can we possibly have this go to zero? And then there's people who are like, did you see how much money Meta spent? And you're like, you kind of need the demand side of the equation to know whether this is a bubble or not, right?

• 32:31Speaker 03

  So I'm going to take a weird direction on what you just said. And I don't know how much I brought this up. But so let's use this proactive reactive thing.

• 32:42Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 32:43Speaker 03

  So here's a scenario that I'll equate to the relationship between AI and your life and how to use it in a way or a similar way to how people use their relationship with their therapist.

• 32:59Anthony Pompliano?

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• 33:44Anthony Pompliano?

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• 34:25Anthony Pompliano?

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• 35:06Speaker 03

  So here's a scenario that I'll equate to the relationship between AI and your life and how to use it in a way or a similar way to how people use their relationship with their therapist. Okay, so when I was very young, I read something. And if I read a quote in anything, and this is the reason why when I was younger, I would read the great thinkers of the world.

• 35:33Anthony Pompliano?

  Was it a book?

• 35:35Speaker 03

  Uh, it probably was an excerpt in a book. Like, to give you an idea, Ralph Waldo Emerson, "Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood." That grabbed me and I've, I've memorized it. I say it all the time. There are certain things like that that, that grabbed me. But one of the things was, you can't love others until you love yourself. And I really thought about that. And that got me into Freud. It got me into, why would I have any chip on my shoulder towards my parents? What, what is that about? What does that mean? Why is it driving me? Because I'm a very driven person still to this age. And a lot of it comes from my relationship with my father. And so I wanted to understand

• 36:18Speaker 03

  that because I wanted to love who I was at a young age, but I also wanted to make sure that I had know the chip was not anger, it was just gratitude. I wanted to turn it in there. So that led to me spending a lot of time with Sigmund Freud and evolving into other of the great psychologists slash psychiatrists. And I still believe psychology is a really important part in the markets. Charlie Munger, Warren Buffett, I view them as market psychologists as much as anything. I wanted to learn from those, those types of people. And that gets me back to the relationship that I think people should be building with AI. And there's a very easy way to do what you said. I think with personal agents, with Muse, right now,

• 37:01Speaker 03

  if people haven't done this, I want you, whatever time of the week is, is free for you, eight o'clock on Friday morning, or four o'clock on Friday afternoon, Saturday morning at six, whatever time is free, have Muse at the end, at that time every week, ask you 10 questions about, are you happy with your life? Are you happy with your workout? Are you happy with your diet? Are you happy with work? Are you happy? Like, and just say it, get it out. And then it can run off and the goal, and you could say, the goal is for you to hear what I'm saying. And then come back with things that could make, we can improve on this. Literally like a brainstorming session, not with a therapist, but with someone

• 37:46Speaker 03

  that understands your life. The more that you do this and get used to this, I think you're going to start to realize, if it's your business, like you're talking about, and I have a business that I'm building and I'm very excited about where it can go. I'm very excited to help people embrace this. I did something last weekend on, or two, last week on compounding and describing why, why a construction worker's son, whose father didn't go to graduate high school, got into the markets. Why did that happen? It will happen because my math brain was really good. My father taught me well in probabilities, but it really happened for one reason. I got a book and on one page of the book, it said, if you double a penny every day, it's $10.7 million. And I went, whoa, and the power of compounding is one of the coolest things in the world. And compounding with

• 38:31Speaker 03

  AI is vital in your life now. If you believe it's a bubble, by definition, you're losing the compounding nature of both from an investment standpoint and a usage standpoint, plain and simple. It is compounding at a pace never before seen in technology. So that power of compounding that I identified as a young kid, when I was 16 years old, that drove me into this, who didn't know what he was going to do. He just knew he didn't want to do construction work. He wanted to be a compounder. Then you learn Moore's Law. And what's Moore's Law? Exponential compounding. It's the exact same thing as the penny double. In fact, most books with technology. So if you're messing with your future of your kids, because you believe AI is a bubble, when it's an inevitability that it will be part of our life and that it'll be disrupting the people who don't embrace it. I think

• 39:15Speaker 03

  the first step to leverage what you said is take AI and make it a life coach. Make it a life coach, asking you the same questions every week, and it'll remind you, did you do what we said last week? And I won't go through the things I've already done that with, but in particular, I get hyper focused on, hey, I want to improve my health a little bit this week. What science will do this? Those types of things to me are really important for people to embrace. So I'm going to leverage what you said and just say, this is somewhat like therapy.

• 39:43Anthony Pompliano?

  I love this idea because it is human in the loop, like recursive learning.

• 39:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:49Anthony Pompliano?

  Right? And

• 39:50Speaker 03

  And compounding of every week going through it, the routine of it.

• 39:53Anthony Pompliano?

  Correct. And I do think that every, every week, I put together a company update. And in it, I want to make sure that we talk about what we did in the past week, what we're going to do in the next week. Not that rocket science. But every morning, I put priorities into Slack to a certain group of people. And I basically say, here's all the things I got to work on. And some days, it's longer than others, but I put it all in there. And what I have found is it's really helpful for me at the beginning of the day to write down, here's the things I'm going to work on. But then at the end of the week, I say, hey, Grok, go through that thread and pull all the things that we got done this week. Magic. And you know, week after week after week. And hey, for the month or the quarter, or you know, whatever. And so you're just feeding it information as you go.

• 40:38Anthony Pompliano?

  Now, we're talking about corporate applications of this stuff or personal applications. There are two companies this week that came out that I want to talk about. First is Warp Sciences.

• 40:48Speaker 03

  Before you do this, I just want to interrupt for 30 seconds. The thread, I want to get people off of this thing because I think it freaks people out because then they have so many threads. They're trying to go find it. Muse is built for memory. It is the best model out there right now for memory. They spent the time to release it because it needs to have memory. I use Muse a ton right now because it remembers everything, my recipes. And so I don't need to go back and find the thread. And even though I know you were just saying that because you can do the same thing with Grokbot. I just want to remind people, if you've had frustrations with finding that thread, because that's where the memory is and that's where you've been doing that conversation, you don't need to do that with Muse.

• 41:29Anthony Pompliano?

  So I'll take it a step further, actually. If people want actionable things of what to do with their AI. Let's say you're using Muse and let's just say you've never used another AI ever before. It's your first kind of experience. As you're communicating with it, it's saving all that stuff in memory. But then all of a sudden Anthropic's duet comes out or dots or Grokbot or you know, whatever. One of the very simple things you can do is you can basically say to whatever AI you use, hey, I want to have a backup of your memory. And we can do it in Google Drive, we can do it in Notion, we can do it in Obsidian, Trove files or something that we built, right? Whatever. I want at the end of every day or every week for you to take all of the new information that you've saved in your memory. And I simply want you to write it to the backup.

• 42:15Anthony Pompliano?

  And then if something new comes out, you can say, hey, by the way, rather than me sit here and tell you all this new information that I previously told you, just reference that Notion document, that Google Drive, whatever. The people who have done this are like, now I can actually use four or five of these different things because Muse is really good at A, B, and C. This other one's really good at this other thing, but they all have shared memory and they're constantly feeding it back. And actually the memory becomes the really important part, right?

• 42:39Speaker 03

  Yep. And so let's take it a step, everyone has heard how good for you a daily journalist. So let's just like, what went on? Now, there's a lot, I mean, writing down your thoughts, having a gratitude diary, which I mean, I keep track of the things I'm grateful for. This started after nine 11. Like I had to do a eulogy on my best friend and my thought was I have to turn this into gratitude that I got to know this person at all and the impact they had on my life. So when people died, it became less about the tragedy and more about focusing on the gratitude. And that's what helped me get through it in that way. So if you go into Muse at the end of every day for a minute and just say, this is what I'm grateful for today, plus this is what I want to remember that happened today.

• 43:22Speaker 03

  Then in a month, if you go back and say, hey, will you go through the daily journal and just take the last 30 days? What have I said? Like, what's the progress of what's gone on in my life? What have I talked about repeatedly? Is there anything with inside the insights? I'm just telling people that doing that type of stuff is going to become the norm. And being able to be happy, again, if you don't love yourself.

• 43:46Anthony Pompliano?

  You'll love the AI.

• 43:47Speaker 03

  You can't love others. And this is where I really do believe that technology has made people not like themselves as much as they should. And I think there's a lot more anger in the world. And I do believe that as time goes on, technology will have, if you use it to help you and help you all these things, your health, your finances, your job. But most importantly, if you become optimistic right now and empowered, you're ahead of 99% of the people as far as I'm concerned.

• 44:15Anthony Pompliano?

  A hundred percent. I could not agree more. I don't fall in love with the AI. It's my only warning. It's like, you know, smoking can cause cancer. Talking too much to the AI about personal feelings could make you fall in love. I don't know. I'm not speaking from personal experience.

• 44:32Anthony Pompliano?

  Warp Sciences.

• 44:35Anthony Pompliano?

  So Kevin Wheel, amazing guy, great entrepreneur and operator. He was the former chief product officer at OpenAI. He has now started a company where he basically wants to be at the forefront of AI, biotech, healthcare, et cetera. You've been talking a lot about this is one. And then two, Warhounds. Palmer Lucky and this biotech company that's been working on animals. They're collaborating and they are creating Warhounds, which is they're going to create genetically modified dogs to put on the battlefield. And Andro is going to make them special gear. So, you know, it's pretty crazy. You're going to have genetically modified it, amazing rabid war dogs

• 45:19Anthony Pompliano?

  that we then are going to put Andro gear on, including lasers and visuals and packs.

• 45:27Anthony Pompliano?

  I mean, this is where we're going.

• 45:28Speaker 03

  Sharks with laser beams, is that what?

• 45:30Anthony Pompliano?

  Listen, are you saying they're not real? Are you saying they're not real, Jordy? Come on. The, I mean, but if you start to look at some of these things, they all on one off, like, okay, AI and biotech. Interesting. It's a nice company. Warhounds, oh, Palmer's being a little crazy. Whatever. But wait a second, when you zoom out and you look at these companies, like we are in the economic boom. We are in the like, you know, there's the J curve where you're negative. We're positive, maybe. We are up and to the right aggressively in terms of ambition, technology innovation, the acceleration of these companies. Warhounds, by the way, you want to try to guess the valuation coming out of the gate?

• 46:14Speaker 03

  What is it?

• 46:15Anthony Pompliano?

  Billion. The dogs are worth a billion.

• 46:23Anthony Pompliano?

  So you want one of the genetically modified dogs?

• 46:25Speaker 03

  No, I'm going to give people two, two good stories.

• 46:29Anthony Pompliano?

  Jordy walking around Brooklyn with a genetically modified war dog.

• 46:33Speaker 03

  At the very end of the A16Z podcast, probably the most important thing for people that I think everyone will raise their hand and say, I want that immediately. What they said was, this was not one of them. So they've obviously seen this or they've heard it from someone. Is basically, we'll soon be able to understand what our animals and pets are saying to us. Okay. Convert their language into what's happening. So that's more of a, rather than war dogs, being able to understand your animals, much more as far as I'm concerned for people out there. Because pets is a huge thing. I can tell you, Williamsburg, it's very difficult to walk around Williamsburg and not see people's pets and what the pets do.

• 47:12Anthony Pompliano?

  So imagine if you had a war dog, he'd be the big dog of the block.

• 47:17Speaker 03

  The second thing, I want to get back to something I've written about and I think is really important. So in this week of AI destruction, a company made a new all time high, valuation is quickly rising the ranks, especially relative to the other ones at the top of the list. And that would be Eli Lilly.

• 47:33Anthony Pompliano?

  Come on, take your victory lap.

• 47:35Speaker 03

  No, no, no, it's not a victory lap yet until it's the biggest company in the United States of America, which I will continue to say will happen within five years.

• 47:42Anthony Pompliano?

  You think it'll be bigger than Nvidia, all these guys?

• 47:44Speaker 03

  Bigger than all of them. And there's a reason, and this is the reason why. What can't be disrupted the next five years is helping people get better. There's a very slow process that has to get in before human beings were allowed to take and ingest pills. Ozempic has helped a lot of people in the country based on the fact that people are not going to die from diabetes and all types of other ailments or things that it's had an impact in are growing. This weekend I will talk a lot about Toon Lab. I did a subscriber video this week where I highlighted, but here's the thing. Eli Lilly made new all time highs this week. The S and P 1500 Life Sciences Biotech and Pharma Index

• 48:29Speaker 03

  made new 52 week highs during a week where everything related to AI is going down. You know what the power of that is? The reason that Nvidia to me is seeing its multiple go down is because it will eventually be disrupted in some way.

• 48:47Speaker 03

  In the next five years, I don't know, but the market's building in that it will be disrupted. If you ask me, they are the safest company to own. Do I think they will continue to go higher? It's one of my biggest longs. My biggest long as of right now is Eli Lilly. Then we've got Nvidia, then we've got Marvell. So I have basically my AI trader.

• 49:05Anthony Pompliano?

  Marvell, let's go, speed it up.

• 49:07Speaker 03

  So what you have is the reason this is so important. We're getting to the point that people have to start to realize that when they worry about energy prices, like oil. Okay. Energy of personal consumption is now less than 3%.

• 49:23Speaker 03

  Healthcare is 20 plus percent. It's about 22 to 23, depending on how you go through the measurement. It's non cyclical, it's funded by both the government and insurance companies that you work for, meaning you get sick, you go, it's paid for. So that's why it's a non cyclical part. So it has the AI benefit of drug discovery, of everything associated. It already is a massive, it is the number one thing people spend on in the country. Number one, home, way lower, autos, way lower. This was not the case 40 years ago. So during the 1970s, when energy was a big deal, you go back and look at healthcare, it was nothing compared to your house and your home.

• 50:03Speaker 03

  So heating it and driving it was very, very much related to energy in one part. It was also related to interest rates. Healthcare doesn't have that. So if you're worried about the AI build out and the delays, get along the healthcare sector. And that's what you're starting to see is rotation into sectors that do not have cyclicality. Nvidia is still a cyclical company. Micron is still a cyclical company. If there's a delay, if there's an over purchase of GPUs and we can't get the power. Well, then at some point Nvidia is not going to sell as many chips because people won't store them anymore. Right now, there's a lot of places that have a lot of GPUs because they know they're going to need them in five years, four years, three years, two years. If we can't get the power done, then they don't happen.

• 50:44Speaker 03

  So I think on, on the side of the breakthrough side, we are entering that period where the breakthroughs are going to start to become the place to invest because they're mispriced because pharmaceutical companies historically traded a very low multiple. And the reason is because they're safe and they don't have any cyclicality, meaning there's no growth. If these are becoming growth stocks, which Eli Lilly has been, and for people who don't know this, you may not know this, Eli Lilly has been up 10 years in a row. There's no tech companies that have done that 10 years in a row. Okay. So none of the big tech companies, they were almost all of them were down 2022, not Eli Lilly, 10 years in a row. You know what its CAGR is over the 10 years? Over 30%.

• 51:27Speaker 03

  You've made a lot of money if you've just sat in Eli Lilly purely based on Ozempic.

• 51:31Anthony Pompliano?

  Ken Langone.

• 51:33Speaker 03

  I will say it again. Eli Lilly's cash cow allows them to do things like Toon Lab. I talked about Harvey. If people have now looked up Harvey and they're like, oh my gosh, this is where all the lawyers are coming together. Go look at what Toon Lab is and just see that they now have 135 different companies that are putting in information on their IP into this supercomputer that Eli Lilly set up so that all of them can benefit and collaborate like a Manhattan style project on the information to try and solve their, we are going to solve a lot of different things going forward. And this is going to be a big part of the next five years.

• 52:10Anthony Pompliano?

  Ladies and gentlemen, that's what we call mic drop. That's it for today. Go check them out on YouTube. Just search Jordy Visser, his Sunday video is excellent, I highly recommend it. Go check out Sylvia at Sylvia.com. Secure, private, accurate AI agent to better manage your finances. Jordy, thank you very much. See you guys next week.