CEO Explains Why Bitcoin Is Digital Gold | Yoni Assia

Yoni Assia is the CEO and co-founder of eToro. In this conversation, we break down agentic trading and how AI is reshaping the platform, why bitcoin remains digital gold, eToro's move into tokenized equities, SpaceX IPO, and why eToro trades for less than 10x EBITDA. ==================== Arch Public is an agentic trading platform that automates investment strategies across Stocks, Commodities, ETFs and Crypto. Whether you’re rotating into AI & Gold, allocating to the S&P 500, or accumulating Bitcoin, Arch Public executes your plan 24/7 without ever taking custody of your assets or funds. Sign up today at https://www.archpublic.com, and start your FREE automated trading strategy! ==================== Looking for a better place to trade? BloFin gives traders access to deep liquidity, advanced futures products for crypto AND TradFi assets, fast execution, and a clean, intuitive interface—all in one platform. To celebrate their partnership with us, they're giving away $100,000 in Deposit & Trade Rewards. Deposit, trade, and earn rewards based on your activity during the campaign. Check them out at ( https://partner.blofin.com/d/Pomp ). ==================== 0:00 - Intro0:54 - Agentic trading: can AI manage your portfolio?7:37 - Tokenization & the Space-X IPO11:50 - Is crypto losing its ethos to Wall Street?13:51 - Bitcoin as digital gold14:58 - Why finance is moving to 24/7 blockchain markets19:26 - Trade Zero acquisition & going after active traders23:00 - Why eToro trades under 10x EBITDA28:10 - Building a financial super app30:25 - Tori: eToro's AI agent & collective intelligence

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:00Speaker 02

  And Bitcoin is replacing that as a digital form. My view is we're right now at a 99% probability that Bitcoin is digital gold. It represents basically the same thing that gold did to the economy and the world for the last 5,000 years to the digital world and potentially to us also to the economy and Mars. It's going to be very hard to send gold there.

• 1:24Speaker 03

  What's going on, guys? Today we got a great conversation with Yoni Asia. He is the CEO and co-founder of eToro and these guys are coming to the United States. In this, we talk about agentic trading, what's going on with AI on the platform, how they're thinking about various trading tools, what's going on with tokenization, public equities, and why is the company trading for less than 10 times their actual EBITDA? There's a lot going on in this conversation. Yoni has been involved in both investing and in crypto for a very, very long time. I always enjoy talking to him and I think you're sure to enjoy this one. So here's probably this conversation with Yoni. All right, Yoni, agentic trading seems to be all the rage. When is AI going to be able to just take my portfolio and go to town and make me money so I can go sit on a beach somewhere?

• 2:03Speaker 02

  Well, it can do it today.

• 2:06Speaker 03

  Really?

• 2:06Speaker 02

  The question is, how much do you trust it? And how good are you at steering it for it to actually make money the way you want to make money versus potentially losing money because you gave it the wrong instructions?

• 2:19Speaker 03

  Do you guys do this on eToro today?

• 2:21Speaker 02

  So we do this in eToro today. We're already seeing, so we actually, we launched the APIs and that MCP which enables AI to basically take over your account and do exactly that, where you can basically go to your Claude or your Grok and say, you know, just XYZ, do this in my account. What we saw is a lot of people were very concerned about connecting it to their main account. So about two months ago, we launched agent portfolios, which basically create a sub portfolio on your account. So if you have $100,000 with us, you can tell basically either Tori, our own AI agent, or now an official Grok connector, Claude, take $1,000 out of my account. These $1,000 now, connect them to a strategy that

• 3:06Speaker 02

  does semiconductor investing based on fundamentals, rebalance every day. So we see these strategies in a lot of different strategies. And then we started significantly seeing a higher pickup rate of actually users creating sub accounts to connect their AI. By the way, I felt the same, right? I have a big account in eToro and I was like, do I feel comfortable enough to connect a third party AI? I just heard a funny story later on, I'll tell, about somebody who was cursing the AI and then Claude basically closed all of his positions because he was misbehaving with AI.

• 3:47Speaker 03

  Really? So somebody had a account, Claude was hooked up to it to trade, and the person started basically talking shit to Claude and Claude, as retribution, shut all of the positions?

• 3:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's what I heard. Wasn't on the eToro platform.

• 4:02Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 4:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:03Speaker 03

  I mean, that's pretty crazy then, right?

• 4:05Speaker 02

  And he was like disconnected everything. He's like, what did you do?

• 4:09Speaker 03

  Oh my God. I mean, does that, were you?

• 4:12Speaker 02

  I think that's the reason we created the agent portfolios is, and I think generally, by the way, the last nine months since we've met, and we, you know, last interview was a year ago, now you're public as well. Welcome, welcome. We'll do like, we'll pitch the stock to one another after.

• 4:32Speaker 03

  Misery, yeah.

• 4:33Speaker 02

  But I think what, you know, since January, I've been consumed completely by AI. We've been, you know, I have about 300 agents running for me. We've been building agency in eToro. We rewrote the entire app, basically 10, 500 man years of work, took the code, reverse engineered it with AI and rewrote the entire app with a new tech stack with AI and launched it a month ago. We then took AI on the same tech stack and basically steered it towards building a professional trader, an active trader platform on eToro called Edge, also launched. So the ability of AI to build is mind blowing, but it's all dependent on who's

• 5:17Speaker 02

  steering there, the AI, right? So we have AI agents running in marketing, in development, in developing apps on the eToro App Store and building new products like Edge on our backend and our production systems. But every time, again and again, it's, you see this, it's like a Formula One car, but you really need a good driver driving it. So my quant team has now multiple agents that are running 24/7 that are searching for academic research papers, translating academic research papers in quantitative finance, financial engineering, behavioral economics into skills, running back testing on all of our data, creating

• 6:01Speaker 02

  these strategies to find alpha, to find alpha in our numbers, harvesting data over the internet, but without a quant on my team who's actually running it and testing it and figuring out what is, does the AI do, we get to problematic results.

• 6:18Speaker 03

  Basically, what you're saying is the human intelligence drives the superhuman intelligence, right? So you have to tell it, here's some things to go look at, here's some interesting thing, you know, you're kind of driving the car.

• 6:28Speaker 02

  You're driving the car.

• 6:29Speaker 03

  But then once you've set it on a direction, then the car takes over and game on.

• 6:33Speaker 02

  The car takes, so you're still the driver. So it doesn't, at least from what I've seen, it doesn't take over yet without a very talented driver in the seat. So we started sponsoring Formula One. Since then, I love metaphors of Formula One. So I asked Pierre Gasly, the driver on the Alpine car we're sponsoring, can I, do you think I can drive Formula One car? He goes, no way. You're going to crush it. You just press pedals at the middle, you crash the car. There's zero chance you're doing like one round. And it's very similar. So you see a lot of people who sort of harness that power of agents with AI, but then they

• 7:17Speaker 02

  crash immediately, right? And you need to then iterate again and again and crash again and again and again. To really utilize the engine, you really need to be a good driver and be able to steer at that speed and maintain actually that speed. So I ran some strategies on AI. I left them to be like, I made 50% in three weeks. I left it to be sort of going back to work. Two weeks after, I see like all the profits are gone, right? So you really need to steer AI right now. I think it's getting better and better. And again, we're

• 7:57Speaker 02

  building tools to make it easier for customers to use AI strategies built by other people in eToro or that are very well defined already. But we're still at that stage where you really need across, at least so far I've seen, in marketing, trading and building apps on all three, that you still need a very, very good driver to manage the agents.

• 8:27Speaker 03

  When you think about agentic investing, that seems like that's a no brainer. People are going to do it. You guys have built some infrastructure with the sub accounts that only the agents have access to the sub account, but not to the main account. So, okay, got it. Tokenization is another big theme that everyone's been talking about. How much are you actually seeing that in reality? And do you see any adoption there?

• 8:45Speaker 02

  Well, we see, I'd say, early-stage adoption. So we announced two months, two, three months ago, our acquisition of ZenGo, which is an awesome, non-custodial wallet. And the reason we went into non-custodial is because we started seeing this year real convergence between DeFi and RedFi. So I'll give you an amazing example, which is like the SpaceX IPO. We, during the SpaceX IPO, we already have seen SpaceX started trading on perpetual markets during the, basically, the pre-IPO. You could actually speculate on the price of the IPO.

• 9:25Speaker 02

  We launched it on Itoro. It trades on ZenGo as well. So you can trade it by swapping on ZenGo. You can trade it on Itoro, basically, as a derivative. Then we're actually part of the SpaceX IPO, on the retail distribution side, sending an email to customers, "Do you want an allocation in the IPO itself?" Amazing, by the way, transaction, largest IPO ever, also largest distribution to retail in the history of IPOs. We very much hope this now becomes a standard, so more and more companies, OpenAI, Anthropic, others, realize the opportunity of retail distribution. And it starts trading on Friday, and it already opens 24/7.

• 10:11Speaker 02

  So when the prices for 24/7 are basically formed in crypto markets in perpetual futures. So perpetual futures are basically driving now prices in gold, silver, oil, SpaceX, et cetera, in the real markets. And you see capital markets basically copying crypto markets. Now, that is a form of tokenization. I'm, you know, I'm coming from the point of view of prediction market is a form of tokenization, right? So a prediction market is basically an NFT that is priced. It is a form of tokenization of value, right? The perpetual future, despite being a derivative, is actually a tokenization of value that is a derivative to the underlying asset.

• 10:56Speaker 02

  And then you have the tokenized equities themselves, which are still early-stage, so still relatively small amounts of both volumes and assets, but getting there because of the DTCC, right? So we are, I think the expectations are is that by the end of the year, the DTC are going to enable the self-clearing brokerages to actually token, not only brokerages, but members, to actually tokenize the actual equities, the actual US equities on-chain. And that move could be, you know, it takes a long while, but then all of a sudden,

• 11:40Speaker 02

  because that's $100 trillion of capital potentially moving on-chain.

• 11:45Speaker 03

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• 12:27Speaker 03

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• 13:12Speaker 03

  But it does feel like crypto started as like an anti-establishment thing. And so you were there pretty early on.

• 13:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:18Speaker 03

  You've seen this evolution. Is the crypto story losing some of its, like, originality in that it is being succumbed into or kind of swallowed into the traditional world? Or do you think we're actually pulling the traditional world more towards the crypto ethos and values?

• 13:31Speaker 02

  I think there are two or even three stories that are right now sort of combined. Bitcoin, in my view, remains the cyberpunk story of a store of value that is disconnected from government, that represents, you know, the libertarian and freedom views. It is as important, by the way, as the invention of gold, right? So the entire world, everything was, you know, based on villages. Gold was the reason ships started sailing across the globe,

• 14:11Speaker 02

  and villages and countries later on could communicate with one another, because it's a form, money is a form of communication, right? It's a communication on a shared value, right? So when we have shared values, me and you, related to all of our world, we can communicate better. When you have zero shared value with someone, very hard to communicate, right? When you think just of communication, shared economic value is really the basis of any economic infrastructure. And I think gold was that invention, and Bitcoin is replacing that as a digital form. Like, my view is we're right now at a 99% probability that Bitcoin is digital gold.

• 14:55Speaker 02

  It represents basically the same thing that gold did to the economy and the world for the last 5,000 years, to the digital world and potentially to us also, to the economy in Mars. It's going to be very hard to send gold there. So that remains the same. You could argue if all the money is in ETFs, or some of the money is in ETFs, does it hurt that narrative? I don't think so, because a big part of that narrative is you want governments to also believe in it. As long as people have the freedom to self-custody, as long as you have a plural now of thousands of companies who support investors to buy crypto, like Itoro,

• 15:38Speaker 02

  or like ZenGo, so you can either have your own self-custody with Itoro or buy on Itoro. I think Bitcoin on its own is one story. You have the second story, which is blockchain, right? So when I saw Bitcoin for the first time, I was like, this is how everything in finance should work. Well, I was, we started Itoro in 2007, 2008, global financial crisis. Everything freezes, nothing works anymore in finance. I'm like, who the hell pulled the plug? And the answer is very clear. The banks are basically pulling the plug to make sure that they make money, or protect themselves, by maybe, maybe legitimate. By the way, a lot of the innovations in crypto were born out of exactly the same thing.

• 16:24Speaker 02

  So the e-trading capabilities in the US and the rules of electronic trading in the US came because during a financial crisis, broker who didn't answer the phone, they were like, "I want to answer the phone because all of my customers are selling." Boom, electronic trading becomes a mandate and that gets regulated. I think this is the same. It means money needs to operate 24/7. Financial systems need to operate as a blockchain. Assets need to become digital. I think regulators also across the globe are realizing that while they are suspicious of crypto and the crypto markets,

• 17:04Speaker 02

  blockchain technology, self, you know, the T0, no, basically, you know, not T plus one, real-time settlement and clearing is actually a great thing that reduces friction in the markets, improves unit economics for consumers. And I think that's why we're seeing that narrative, which is capital markets moving on-chain. And that is 100, and that is inevitable, right? There's a question, are they going to call it blockchain? Are they going to call it digital assets? But from a technology point of view, it's like looking at an iPhone and thinking you're going back to Nokia, sorry, Nokia.

• 17:46Speaker 03

  Well, Figure Technologies is, I think, is a really interesting example where they're using a blockchain, but they don't really talk about it. They talk about themselves much more as kind of a finance firm, not, not a blockchain.

• 17:57Speaker 02

  Great Q2 results.

• 17:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, excellent.

• 17:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, which is unrelated to crypto, right?

• 18:01Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 18:02Speaker 02

  It's just better, a better infrastructure to trade and exchange value. And they provide real value to their customers with lower friction, right? So the blockchain is the backend, digital assets is the result.

• 18:21Speaker 03

  And it feels like you guys have aspirations to do a similar thing in a different part of the finance sector.

• 18:26Speaker 02

  On equities, so again, we, our view is all assets become digital on one end. On the other end, our customers, Gen Y and now Gen Z are growing to be digital native. They are digital native, also digital asset native. They want to see their assets trade 24/7. They want to see all of their assets swappable between one another and transferable 24/7. So that's people's expectations of what an asset should look like is actually inspired by crypto. But that's the expectations gradually of suddenly of real estate and of everything.

• 19:09Speaker 02

  And when we look at both these opportunities, both are, you know, 200 trillion to 300 trillion opportunities in the next 20, 25 years. I think eventually it's the same opportunity. It's the customer demographics that are changing and the backend technology changing as well. And again, SpaceX IPO is a great example because a real world asset that's happening also, by the way, a story of its own, which was super interesting. And we had people from all around, from 100 different countries flocking to Etoro to buy SpaceX. And it happens both on-chain and off-chain at the same time and converges. And we're seeing a lot of new opportunities.

• 19:49Speaker 02

  So a tokenization of equities enables our customers to basically tokenize their Facebook shares or Google shares or Tesla shares into a tokenized equity to move it to the Zango wallet where they'll be able very soon to use it as collateral for other more for lending, right? Where you can also lend against your Google and Facebook on Etoro. But that's a much more backend, from a backend point of view, a much more complex ecosystem that goes through, I don't know, like 20 intermediaries in the backend.

• 20:26Speaker 03

  When you guys think about expanding, you guys recently acquired a company called Trade Zero. What, uh, what do they do or like, why did you buy them?

• 20:35Speaker 02

  So, you know, we've grown Etoro, our LTM is about almost a billion dollars LTM with a top line of almost a billion dollars, bottom line of more than 350 million dollars.

• 20:51Speaker 03

  So billion dollars of revenue trailing 12 months or so and then 350 or so in EBITDA.

• 20:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, and, and which is, you know, very sizable business.

• 21:03Speaker 02

  But the vast majority of it is outside the US. We're one of the top three to five brokers in UK, Australia, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, where we grew the company historically. We started Etoro here in the US in 2021. I had a huge run with crypto, then basically decided to take a step back where the regulatory environment was extremely negative here in the US. Then post going public said, okay, let's go into the US. And we realized that we have sort of gaps in the product. I know the Trade Zero team before actually going public. So we have a relationship going back.

• 21:48Speaker 02

  Three founders founded the company where they worked together for the past 27 years in the brokerage industry, all here based in Brooklyn, New York. So we love the team.

• 22:00Speaker 03

  Italians?

• 22:00Speaker 02

  Italians. They're very focused on the active trader segment. So on the ability to short stocks. So when you look at their platform, it's almost sort of the opposite spectrum of the target audience that we have in trading. We're a mobile-first simplicity, you know, a user experience that simplifies also through copy trading and smart portfolios. Access to 4.3 million funded accounts with $20 billion. And when you look at their audience, it's your desktop, multiple screens, you know, a Windows executable. Where, you know, you look at the screens and, you know, the speed of everything happening is like.

• 22:44Speaker 02

  Historically, we didn't cater to the very active trader segment because we thought it is over complicated to actually cater to that segment, both from a tools perspective and also the connectivity for those tools to customers. I think AI changes that. I'll go back to that for a second. But now we're basically, together with Trade Zero, we can support four times leverage, long, short here in the US, including the ability for you to locate shorts. So in order to short, you need to find the shortable stock. Futures, which was launched on Trade Zero, they're working now on prediction markets.

• 23:29Speaker 02

  So, and together with Etoro, crypto, which is 200 crypto assets on Etoro and entire crypto infrastructure, copy trading, our RIA, smart portfolios. So a wide variety of now products together to launch to anywhere between the new customer coming into trading for the first time, all the way to wealth management and savings to the active trader who wants the multiple screens with option strategies and chains.

• 24:00Speaker 03

  So you can basically serve all these different people. So numbers wise, over 4 million users with funded accounts. Then you've got 20 billion in assets on the platform. It's called a billion or so in revenue and somewhere 350 million or more in EBITDA. Why is the company traded less than 10x EBITDA?

• 24:19Speaker 02

  I think it's a couple of things. One is the US. I, you know, I'm surprised again and again by how US-centric the US market is. I don't think necessarily.

• 24:30Speaker 03

  So they're saying they're discounting international revenue?

• 24:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think they're all looking for us to see how we're doing in the US, which is quite interesting. So if you're very big in one market, that's fine. If you're, you know, very big in one single market, our strategies, we're working across 12 regions. In each of the regions, historically, we've always sort of built, what is the great investment trading product that the guy in the Germany, UK, Australia, Singapore and the US wants? And then gradually we started in our biggest markets like the UK, Germany, Australia to localize the offering. Offering the local currency, the local stocks, the local savings market.

• 25:16Speaker 02

  We went into the equivalents of IRA and 401Ks in Australia and now in the UK, right? So we're building more and more of the local aspects. And here in the US, we're just starting. So I think one is there is an expectation of the market to see how we execute in the US. I have no doubt we'll execute in the US because we're executing in France and Italy. And I'm not, you know, I don't speak French and Italian. I think my English is reasonable and maybe not my American. So that's one. I think the second part is volatility. So if you look historically at companies like IBKR, which I'm a fan of, I used to invest in IBKR,

• 25:59Speaker 02

  even the early, pre-Etoro, and their stock was always sort of, sort of volatile, right? Like the market. So it takes time for public markets, now you know, public markets as well, for investors who are investing other people's money to understand how a stock behaves and how a company behaves, to understand how to, for analysts, how to predict the numbers. So gradually we're providing more and more data to our analysts. And it takes sort of cadence, for example, July seasonality, right? July, a bit surprised analysts like, why is July low?

• 26:39Speaker 02

  Seasonality and seasonality in Europe is actually bigger because Europeans actually a good take of summer vacation. So every time there's volatility, you get a bit of institutional money. Institutional money actually is much more afraid of volatility than retail investors, right? So we've been teaching our retail investors through crypto, through stocks, through, you know, things like what happened in semiconductors in July, to be able to sort of own volatility and take it. Institutional investors don't want that on their books, right? So because their business is consistent returns for their customers.

• 27:22Speaker 02

  So anything that adds volatility is something that takes time for institutional investors to basically learn and learn how to invest and trade for a long time. And you remember Robinhood and Coinbase, when they went out in 2021, both sort of went down significantly before starting to rise. And both of them sort of corrected significantly to where they are today. The same happened in the IBKR, I think about five, 10 years ago. So I think that's also a part of the story, creating that cadence, both us as a young public company, but not as a young company, of talking to the markets, educating the markets about how our business operates.

• 28:05Speaker 02

  And of course, coming to America like Eddy Murphy.

• 28:08Speaker 03

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• 29:25Speaker 02

  So, you know, outside the US, we have our current account. We're connected to a Visa debit card, savings, which is your long-term savings, the equivalents of 401K. You can actually, in Australia, tell your employer to send the money to eToro Spaceship, the IRA, where you can actually move your salary through eToro Work. So we launched eToro Work. You can move your salary into eToro. You can move your short-term savings or long-term savings into eToro. Your investment accounts, where if you think about the Pro Investor program in eToro, we have almost 6,000 investors, many of them, I think the top 10 generated the last 12 months 90% returns.

• 30:09Speaker 02

  But if you look at them as a whole, people who are passionate about capital markets, coming from 75 different countries, trading assets, stocks from 26 different markets, crypto assets, derivatives, like commodities. So a very diverse group of extremely passionate and successful people on the platform where you can copy them, right? So an equivalent of an RIA network, right? But a global one, right? So if you look at the equivalent of RIA networks, like Franklin Templeton here in the US, or Morgan Stanley, you have the same in Germany, Italy, in Spain, in France, in UK, Australia, Singapore. In each, it's all local, treating local.

• 30:53Speaker 02

  We've built a global network of people who are passionate about capital markets and successful about capital markets, and tech affluent, that are building their knowledge and customer base and communities around them. So that's another aspect of finance. And then your self-trading account on eToro, where you can trade stocks, crypto commodities, derivatives, and of course, you know, now 24/7 on the eToro platform, both crypto and capital markets.

• 31:24Speaker 03

  What about AI in the product itself? We talked about agentic trading. Are there other things you guys are doing with AI?

• 31:29Speaker 02

  Sure, we launched Tori. So Tori's our AI agent. We used to call her an AI analyst. When we launched it, we were very early on, I think on GPT-3.5. And because we, I saw the opportunity very early on, on the fact that like, from an analyst point of view, we have 18 analysts covering the global markets. And now with AI, they can basically cover every single stock across the globe that's trading on eToro. That's more than 10,000 different stocks. So the research part and the analyst part was the first to sort of be very obvious. I can now ask AI what's happening in the markets in real time.

• 32:12Speaker 02

  I can analyze the financial reports of a company within minutes. I can compare between financial results of similar companies.

• 32:19Speaker 03

  User-generated questions to Tori.

• 32:21Speaker 02

  To Tori, yeah. So Tori is an AI agent that's in the portfolio now. It has gotten a big uplift with Grok 4.2, then 4.3, now 4.6. And what is that uplift? We actually took a model that was on the backend and moved it into the frontend. So when you actually talk to Tori today, you're actually talking directly to Grok. Grok has access to the tools, and then MCP, and the memory of your agent in eToro. So we've implemented the Carpathia memory there. So you go into eToro, you start talking to Tori, it'll remember who you are, who your parents are, wife, kids, what are they all invested in?

• 33:04Speaker 02

  You can start connecting either a third-party MCP tools, like you can do with Sylvia. So, and it can now open agent portfolios and trade and create trading strategies within the app. So that's all in different sort of levels of rollout of the product. So that AI agent, in my view, I think we share a very similar vision to Sylvia, right? In my view, platforms like eToro over time offer, you know, consumers a family office, everything, from taxes to company formations, to kids' trusts on the more complex side,

• 33:45Speaker 02

  which you deal with, to being able to trade in your account, to things I'm super passionate about. I need a risk manager 24/7, the levels of risk I love taking. So a risk manager and a team of quants looking at different opportunities in the markets, and a portfolio manager, right? So we have these mini hedge funds, basically customers in eToro, that are building apps on the eToro platform. And when you look at the app, it's like a mini hedge fund, right? So a lot of the apps have a lot of things that are similar. A customer of eToro Pro Investor will go and say, hey, I'm doing this, I'm lonely, right? So a pro investor on eToro might manage a lot of money.

• 34:27Speaker 02

  Top guy in eToro has 40,000 people copying with $300 million. He's making on his own more than a million dollars a year. Suddenly now they're building their teams, right? So a German pro investor build their team. Their team is a chief investment officer, chief risk officer, chief geopolitical officer, news editor. I'm like, okay, that's a very like, I understand that team. It's very sort of. Another pro investor said, my team is Kathy Wood, Warren Buffett, Peter Thiel, and I want to see them arguing with each other. So every

• 35:00Speaker 03

  That's something different.

• 35:00Speaker 02

  Every pro investor created also a UX with a team of agents that are now helping them 24/7 manage their portfolios. Now, do you have a doubt, any doubt, that five super intelligent agents, together with a very smart investor who understands the market, will do a better job in managing their portfolio versus him alone?

• 35:26Speaker 03

  Of course.

• 35:27Speaker 02

  Right? Which means retail investors are sort of

• 35:31Speaker 03

  Gravitate towards it.

• 35:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:32Speaker 03

  Yeah. Look, you preach into the choir here. I know, I see.

• 35:38Speaker 03

  When you think about the business going forward, the financial super app is kind of one component of it. What are other things that investors should know about eToro?

• 35:47Speaker 02

  So first of all, the financial super app, the usage of AI, the experience on the platform. I think the most, sort of, the biggest sort of crown jewel on eToro at the end is the collective intelligence. So I've been trading the market since I was 13. When I came into the markets, I wanted to be like on a floor of Goldman with 1,000 traders and investors around me. You know, the reason we like talking to like-minded individuals is because we learn from talking to one another. That's how people sort of get great investment ideas, is by actually talking to other people or looking at what other people are doing.

• 36:28Speaker 02

  I think your ability to find investment opportunities and trading opportunities in eToro, where people are sharing their investment strategies and across the globe. So everything from US markets generally, to the obvious like tech markets, to people who are experts. I'll give you an example. We have a customer called EU Defense Investor. That's the name of their account. I met the guy. The guy worked 25 years in NATO, on the field. He left his army service, went into pension.

• 37:07Speaker 02

  By the way, roughly our age. And I asked him, how did you make money? He's like, listen, all of these small European companies, I know their names. I call a friend of mine, I ask him, what are you buying now when you want to buy something for a tank? And he says, I know all of these companies, they're all publicly traded, they're all like midcaps in Europe or in the US, and nobody looked at those companies two years ago. I identified them. You know, I can continue and ask my friends, you know, what's happening? What are the good parts, bad parts? And that's a type of information that's extremely like, I would never know that information because when was I like buying materials for a tank?

• 37:50Speaker 02

  I went, I meet in diamond accounts, I meet a lot of our top clients and our pro investors. So, you know, a physicist that's dealing with nuclear energy. And like, he's investing in all of these nuclear companies, which by the way, I have no idea how to invest in because if you look at their financial profile, it's, you know,

• 38:08Speaker 03

  Horrible.

• 38:09Speaker 02

  It's horrible. Warren Buffett would look at these companies and say, this is not an investable company, right? It's more like startups. But we know startups is actually an interesting asset class. I'm also investing in VC. But that's like investing in VC in the public markets. That's nuclear energy, quantum computing, to some extent, some new semis, right? But you find people on eToro that have these amazing pockets of knowledge, you know, either local and Australian stocks, or stocks in Asia, or stocks in Germany, or sector-specific. And you can talk to them and now put AI on top of that, right?

• 38:54Speaker 02

  You can, for every stock on eToro, you'll find people that are buying it. And you'll ask, you know, how good are they? What do they know that I don't? It can read their feed to analyze actually and to look what they're writing. It can actually read now their X feed as well when they connect their X account. So you actually have access to sort of, how do these people think? And why are they buying a stock? And by the way, when we build our Alpha portfolios, one of the interesting things we found out is as important as to ask what are the smartest people doing and copy them is actually asking what are the people

• 39:38Speaker 02

  who consistently are not good doing and avoid doing that.

• 39:42Speaker 03

  It is funny that you want to look at both the good and the bad. That's a part that I think a lot of people don't realize is that the bad people could tell you just as much as the good people.

• 39:50Speaker 02

  More, by the way. It's a stronger signal in the toro, like the negative bias, the like, because we have like five to 10% who are superstars or, you know, root was traders and investors that sometimes I have to look at what they do and like 10 times to believe, because it's hard to believe that somebody is able to generate 50% a year consistently, right? Or how do you make it?

• 40:17Speaker 03

  You told me that in the past.

• 40:19Speaker 02

  Or not luck, right? So it's, you know, but if you see somebody consistently doing it, you're like, okay, I want to really understand why. And by the way, and some, some things are temporal, right? So like the hedge fund industry, somebody can be a high flyer for a while, but then something changes and then we see the number one becoming number two, number two becoming number one. Like number one now on Etoro has a 30% IRR average roughly for past 12 years, 12 years, right? A super smart guy. All the top, like I met all the top 50, probably roughly super smart people and in investing,

• 41:00Speaker 02

  they're actually better than me and like really understand the markets. And that's why I built Etoro, because I knew there are people like I knew I'm good at investing and it took me a while, but attack stocks and then in crypto, but sort of more longer term, not diligent enough to go into reading financials of every single company I want to invest in, but these guys do, right? So super smart investors and you can very easily talk to them, find out, find those who are similar to you and sort of look at their portfolios.

• 41:41Speaker 02

  And I think AI now, from one end, makes our pro investors potentially 10 times better, providing them tools that are the level of Renaissance capital two years ago and then millennium and point 22, really because these tools didn't exist like two years ago. The best hedge funds in the world didn't have the ability to run a quant team and risk management team 24/7 for every single portfolio manager that can actually look at the markets 24/7 and analyze news 24/7 tailored into a specific portfolio manager.

• 42:22Speaker 02

  So from one end, our best customers have no doubt are going to get better and your ability and anyone's ability to find the right ones to do with the right asset allocation between them also improves significantly with AI.

• 42:37Speaker 03

  And it makes complete sense. If somebody's in the United States, where should they go to sign up?

• 42:41Speaker 02

  Etoro.com, yeah, Etoro.com, just download that.

• 42:44Speaker 03

  And they get equities, crypto, trading tools, AI, financial super app.

• 42:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:50Speaker 03

  It's a pretty good deal.

• 42:51Speaker 02

  It's a pretty good deal and says soon embedded in Sylvia.

• 42:54Speaker 03

  No.

• 42:55Speaker 02

  We will see.

• 42:57Speaker 03

  We're negotiating, we're negotiating. We're not negotiating shit.

• 43:00Speaker 02

  All right, we'll do it together in the future.