#1505 James Lavish & Sam Callahan | Bitcoin Has EXPONENTIAL Growth Ahead

James Lavish is the Co-Managing Partner of the Bitcoin Opportunity Fund, and is the author of the ‘The Informationist’ a weekly newsletter that simplifies financial concepts. Sam Callahan writes simple, insightful updates on bitcoin called “The News Block Weekly Newsletter.” This episode was recorded at Bitcoin Investor Week in New York. In this conversation we discuss if Trump admin will be able to balance the budget, what a balanced budget could mean for bitcoin, global liquidity, gold, and nation states adopting bitcoin.=======================This episode is brought to you by Bitdeer (NASDAQ: BTDR), a global leader in Bitcoin mining and high-performance computing for AI. Led by a seasoned management team, Bitdeer is driving innovation with its proprietary SEALMINER ASICs for Bitcoin mining and has a massive 2.5 GW power portfolio across three continents. Learn more about Bitdeer at www.bitdeer.com=======================Franzy makes franchise ownership accessible for dreamers, go-getters, and investors alike. With the AI-powered Franzy Fit Score, match with the best brands for your financials, experience, and goals. Explore franchise options, get pre-qualified, and access expert coaching to guide your journey. Ready to own a business? Visit https://franzy.com/pomp today!=======================BitcoinOS is bringing Bitcoin into a new era. For the first time, Bitcoiners can access real DeFi across the entire crypto ecosystem, powered by revolutionary zero-knowledge technology. No more trusting sketchy bridges or giving up security. BitcoinOS reunites all of crypto around the chain where it all began. Follow BitcoinOS on twitter @BTC_OS and Be early to Bitcoin again.=======================Pomp writes a daily letter to over 265,000+ investors about business, technology, and finance. He breaks down complex topics into easy-to-understand language while sharing opinions on various aspects of each industry. You can subscribe at https://pomp.substack.com/=======================View 10k+ open startup jobs:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://dreamstartupjob.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Enroll in my Crypto Academy: https://www.thecryptoacademy.io/

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Anthony Pompliano?

  What's up everyone. This is Anthony Pompliano. Many of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, which is my effort to find the most interesting people in the world and sit with them for hours while I ask questions in an effort to learn. So it would mean the world to me if you would subscribe to the show on your favorite audio platform, watch episodes on YouTube, and tell your friends and family about the podcast. My goal is to help millions learn from the world's most interesting people. So let's get into today's episode.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

• 0:54Anthony Pompliano?

  Today's episode is brought to you by NASDAQ listed Bitdeer. They trade under their stock ticker B T D E R. They're led by a seasoned management team. Bitdeer is a global leader in Bitcoin mining and high-performance computing for artificial intelligence, and they are backed by technological innovation and a massive 2.5 gigawatt global power portfolio. Recently, Bitdeer launched its own Bitcoin mining ASIC named the Seal Miner to target what Wall Street analysts project to be a multi-billion dollar annual market. Their proprietary Seal Miner ASICs are redefining efficiency and performance, and they are backed by the industry's most advanced chip roadmap, with two more groundbreaking models set to launch in 2025. To learn more about Bitdeer's cutting-edge technology and business, visit their website

• 1:36Anthony Pompliano?

  at bitdeer.com. That's B I T D E E R dot com. Go check out Bitdeer today. Today's episode is brought to you by Franzie. If you're a dreamer, a go-getter, or someone looking to own a business, you better listen up. Franzie is the ultimate platform to make franchise ownership accessible and achievable for everyone, from corporate escapees to side hustle seekers and investors. Franzie does more than just list franchises. It's equipped with the Franzie Fit Score, an AI-powered matching tool that finds the best brands for you, based on your financials, your experience, your risk. tolerance and your goals. You can also get pre-qualified to see exactly what you can afford, check brand availability in your area, and discover the hottest new concepts hitting

• 2:18Anthony Pompliano?

  the market. And if you need guidance, Franz's team of expert coaches are there to help you navigate the world of franchising and find the right opportunities for you. So whether you're just starting or you're looking to expand, Franz's got everything you need. Head over to franzy.com/pomp today and start your journey to business ownership. Again, that's franzy.com/pomp to start your journey to business ownership. Today's episode is brought to you by Bitcoin OS. Bitcoin OS is the ultimate upgrade to Bitcoin. Bitcoiners can now experience the magic of the entire crypto world, including DeFi, scalability, privacy, and more. But you don't have to give up control of your hard-earned sats. Bitcoin OS is powered by revolutionary zero-knowledge technology, and they let other

• 3:00Anthony Pompliano?

  blockchains plug into Bitcoin, offering their service to the world's largest digital asset. This lets Bitcoin holders securely move their coins across the crypto landscape, turning Bitcoin into a productive programmable asset. Putting your Bitcoin to work once meant trusting centralized companies and bridges to protect your assets, a model that's lost crypto owners billions to hacks and fraud. Bitcoin OS lets you be your own BOS, using a system based on cryptography rather than trust, the way Satoshi intended. Using Bitcoin OS, all coins are returning home, eager to plug into Bitcoin's security, network effects, and $2 trillion capital base. Bitcoin is the first and final BOS of all digital assets, and will soon be reborn as the foundation of the united crypto world. Follow Bitcoin OS

• 3:41Anthony Pompliano?

  on Twitter, @BTC_Os. Again, that's @BTC_Os, and be early to Bitcoin again.

• 3:51Anthony Pompliano?

  Let's start with this question. Do either of you think we're going to balance the budget in the next four years?

• 3:59Anthony Pompliano?

  You want to take this first, James?

• 4:00Speaker 02

  Look, we've been talking about the debt spiral for a while now. I mean, we've been talking about for decades, right? That the United States has a debt problem. We borrow, we borrow, we borrow. And in fact, when- Debt matures, we have to take out more debt in order to pay it down, to pay down that maturity, because we just don't make enough money as a nation. And so, the question, Anthony, can we balance a $2.1 trillion deficit? That's the baseline from last year. But if you look at this year, 2025, the first quarter, and remember, the first quarter started

• 4:45Speaker 02

  in October 1st. So we got our first quarter of spending, and it ended up showing that we have a $711 billion deficit in just the first quarter. And that was almost 40% higher than the first quarter from last year. So now Doge comes into office, and they've cut $110 billion or something.

• 5:07Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 5:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, so they've got a long way to go to wipe out what looks to be a run rate of $2.8 trillion. So the short answer is, no.

• 5:20Speaker 03

  Yep. I agree, I think four years is way too short of time to make any meaningful debt in this structural deficit. And, you know, there's a lot of focus on Doge, and I support the efforts, and I think there's going to be maybe some positive change in terms of fraud and improper payments that are made in the government. But at the same time, I really don't think that the Doge efforts are going to make a meaningful debt in this, because really you need congressional new legislation to change the eligibility, or the funding, or the benefits of these entitlement programs, because they made up 61% of the spending last year. And the CBO projects that that's going to be 87% of the spending in the next decade is from the entitlement programs and the interest expense on the debt.

• 6:05Speaker 03

  And so, Doge is going to change the fact that the Fed will cut rates or raise rates to manage the interest expense, and they also can't touch those entitlement programs, really. And so unless the fraud is even bigger than anybody believes, I just don't think that there's going to be any meaningful change in the deficit in the next

• 6:24Anthony Pompliano?

  This is why we're doing this. I'm at 50% odds we're gonna get to a balanced budget. I think it is way more likely than people think. Let's assume that I'm right and you guys are wrong. I gotta do that because, you know, I'm interviewing you. Would that be bad for Bitcoin? Like, would balancing the budget, what's good for the country, actually be bad for Bitcoin, given that lots of people want to buy Bitcoin because the dollar devaluation, the debt problem, like, all these things?

• 6:51Speaker 03

  Well, you know, I think if you're right, it's gonna become from a growth explosion, right? And so that's potential, and that's a good thing, I think, for Bitcoin, too. Now, one of the reasons why, if they just cut spending, the financialization of the economy, the US economy, is why there's a big problem, because tax receipts are so tied to asset prices, and asset prices are continuously driven by fiscal policy. And so if they just cut spending, they're gonna see a decline in asset prices and a decline in tax receipts, and so any potential spending is gonna get offset by the decline in tax revenues. And so if you're right, I think it's gonna come from a growth explosion, which is a good thing for America, and I think Bitcoin benefits in that scenario as

• 7:32Speaker 03

  well. Now, I just don't, if, without that growth explosion, I don't see the deficit changing, and then if the deficit doesn't change and that the spending doesn't change, then I think asset prices will continue to grind up, and Bitcoin benefits in that scenario as well, too.

• 7:48Speaker 02

  I actually think, I'll put a wrinkle on what you're saying. If we do balance the budget, it's not from a real growth, it's from, it's from nominal growth. And so what that means is that this administration figures out a way to grow the GDP in terms of US dollar growth and devaluation, meaning that the dollar will be worth less and less because of inflation. So they will drive inflation. You've already heard Trump talking about interest rates. He wants a 10-year down, he wants a 10-year down. The yield on the 10-year.

• 8:26Anthony Pompliano?

  Explain this further, because I don't think people quite, they hear him saying it, but I don't think they quite understand what he's talking about there, and what the impact of actually getting that 10-year yield.

• 8:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, so the 10-year Treasury is the benchmark Treasury of the world. Like, this is the global reserve asset of the world. And he wants that interest rate down because he knows that that is what causes constriction in lending. You know, so if you're gonna borrow, and we're all, the whole nation, the whole world, but the whole nation is based on debt. And so if the interest rates are high, the 10-year is kind of the benchmark. So what's, what does that mean? That means that auto loans, home loans, mortgages, they're all keyed off of that, that interest rate. And then all business loans are keyed off of that interest rate. So depending on how risky your business is, it's gonna be keyed off of that 10-year Treasury

• 9:20Speaker 02

  and how much more you have to pay in interest because of the risk of your business. So that, that means that if the, the yield on that, meaning if the interest rate on that 10-year is higher, then it's going to be restrictive in the economy. Okay, so I just, the, the point, though, is that what, what Trump wants to do is he wants to make it easy to access capital. And if you have easy access to capital, you have more debt, even in the, just in the private sector, forget about the government, then you're going to have an expansion of the money supply and you could balance a budget because you've grown that top line so much, which is where you get your taxes from.

• 10:03Speaker 02

  And instead of collecting, say, you know, $6 trillion taxes, or $5 trillion taxes, you'll get, collect seven. And that is possible, but it'll be driven by nominal growth in my mind. I went from a hard no to it's possible real quick there.

• 10:19Speaker 03

  Well, I think the nominal growth, that's, that's actually a really good point. Nominal growth is interesting because, I mean, real growth is the key. I mean, how much is it actually from increased economic activity? And Lynn Alden and I did a report and we talked about what happened in Turkey recently. So, and why nominal growth is so important to look at and nominal debt accumulation and inflation? Because their fiscal deficits blew out, right? But their debt to GDP GDP numbers actually fell during a period where their inflation spiked to triple digits. And you know, their nominal growth went like this. And so when you look at the Dutch GDP figures in Turkey, even though there was massive inflation, debasement of the currency going on and good nominal GDP growth, the Dutch GDP figures fell.

• 11:04Speaker 03

  And so you really have to consider real GDP growth and consider what the effects of these nominal GDP figures are and the nominal, you know, inflation figures to basically figure out what's actually going on under the hood.

• 11:17Anthony Pompliano?

  Now, you mentioned the report that you did with Lynn Alden. You did another report around global liquidity. And in this, you determined that Bitcoin was the most sensitive major asset to this global liquidity.

• 11:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:30Anthony Pompliano?

  If we look over the last couple of weeks, you know, probably back in maybe November timeframe, if I remember correctly, people started to post these pictures online of, oh, there's a chart. Global liquidity has turned down. Bitcoin hasn't turned down. Bitcoin's probably going to fall. Global liquidity, literally yesterday, I started to see the charts of, okay, now global liquidity is now starting to expand again. Bitcoin looks like it's bottomed as of yesterday. M2 is growing. The fastest rate has been growing the last, you know, 30 months or something. Is it really just that easy of follow global liquidity and that will tell you what's going to happen with Bitcoin? Or do you think that there's more to a kind of evaluating Bitcoin and kind of the more month to month type price movements?

• 12:06Speaker 03

  Well, I think people focus on Bitcoin and correlations to other asset classes a lot. But really, it's very correlated to global liquidity measures, as you mentioned. But there are periods where that long-term liquidity correlation breaks. And it's usually when something idiosyncratic is happening to Bitcoin itself. Now, that can be like a really bad thing, like the FTX collapse, for instance. It didn't matter what was going on in liquidity conditions when FTX was collapsing, things were going to fall. But similarly with like the, you know, the launch of the ETFs, for instance, would be a positive thing. We also saw that correlation start to break down. And I think since the election, we've actually seen that correlation break down because there was so much good news to Bitcoin specifically.

• 12:49Speaker 03

  And so I think over the last quarter or so, we've actually seen, you know, the price action being driven more from idiosyncratic factors to Bitcoin itself, more than the liquidity conditions. And I think we're just going to have to see how this plays out over a longer period of time to see if that, you know, theory plays out. But that's kind of what I think has been going on in terms of the main drivers of price action over the last, say, you know, five months or so.

• 13:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, we all know that Bitcoin has been kind of the tip of the risk spear for years now. And what I mean by that is if you watch Bitcoin, you'll kind of know what the NASDAQ is going to do alongside it. And so, but one of the important things here, Anthony, is are we talking about Bitcoin in the next year or two? Or are we talking about long term? Because, you know, it does follow the money supply. So the money supply expands. Bitcoin follows it. It trails it by about eight to 12 weeks. So it catches up to it and you can see, you know, how that correlation is. However, I think in the next five to 10 years, Bitcoin's going to have a decorrelation.

• 13:59Speaker 02

  It's going to decouple from the risk assets. And what I mean by that is that Bitcoin as an asset class is going to grow and it's going to solidify as its own asset class, just like gold, right? And you're seeing it kind of happen right now. And so if you look at the entire investable universe, there's $900 trillion of investable assets out there. And Bitcoin's only $2 trillion of that, well, less today. But it's only $2 trillion. It's a fraction of a percent of that. And so the longer answer to your question is, as Bitcoin grows and starts to take market

• 14:37Speaker 02

  share, not just from gold as a store of value, but from real estate, from bonds, which have $630 trillion in those two asset classes, as it starts to take market share from them, then it decouples and it follows something that is not exactly correlated to the money supply anymore. Now it's gone on that S-growth curve and it gets through that hump and starts that exponential growth again.

• 15:10Anthony Pompliano?

  When you mention gold, it makes me think that gold investors, they're celebrating. I jokingly asked Peter Schiff the other day, is the gold investor is going to throw a $3,000 party after the Bitcoiners threw a 100K party? But if you think of gold, it's up 50% or so over the last year, it's knocking on the door of 3,000, keeps hitting these new all-time highs. It seems like Bitcoin has a little bit more volatility, which on one hand, when it's going up, Bitcoiners like, but also, let's say, year-to-date, gold is up and Bitcoin has been relatively flat in comparison. And so, how do you guys see the correlations there? Do you think that it's the same type of buyer? Because I think that when we start talking about the Strategic Bitcoin Reserve and things like that, sure, there's all kinds of buyers of gold, but at the end of the day, the central

• 15:55Anthony Pompliano?

  banks are probably the single most important buyers of gold. And so, if you want the central banks to become the single largest buyers of Bitcoin, are they making a decision between gold and Bitcoin? Or is it an "and" decision? You say, "Hey, we're going to keep doing our gold thing, but we're also going to start adding Bitcoin as well."

• 16:10Speaker 03

  Well, I think you're right. So, central banks buying gold. There has actually been some developments recently with the Czech Central Bank. He came out and they're basically voting to test a portfolio with a 5% allocation. So, baby steps.

• 16:26Anthony Pompliano?

  Of Bitcoin?

• 16:27Speaker 03

  Of Bitcoin, yes. But also, the Polish Central Bank president came out and rejected the idea of Bitcoin under any circumstances as a reserve asset, which is interesting because Poland is the number-one buyer of gold year-to-date. I mean, they are just buying up gold like crazy, and they want to make gold 20% of its reserves. And they talk about the certain characteristics of gold that makes it special for them. And that's, you know, it's devoid of credit risk, it's not subject to any single country's mismanagement of their monetary or fiscal policies, and it's scarce. And obviously, Bitcoin has those. But they also talk about security and liquidity, and that's really what these central banks have to think about in terms of their FX reserves.

• 17:07Speaker 03

  Over time, Bitcoin is growing to an asset of around $2 trillion. The daily trading volume is getting to these levels of like maybe a smaller fiat currency. It's not quite like, say... The Canadian dollar, which makes up like 1% of central bank FX reserves. That's about like $450 billion of daily trading volume. So Bitcoin is not quite there yet in terms of the liquidity that they would acquire. But it is 24/7. And so there's other benefits to having Bitcoin. And then obviously, when you talk about things like the diversification benefits, because they also talk about why gold is good in terms of just diversifying their reserves after Russia. And Bitcoin has those characteristics as well.

• 17:50Speaker 03

  I think it's going to take a lot longer and a lot of time before central banks get in. I think there needs to be improved custody solutions and infrastructure for them, and then improved liquidity. But when you actually look at the merits of Bitcoin compared to gold and why it could equally give them a non-government alternative that provides resistance from censorship as well as debasement, I think over a long, long period of time, you're going to see adoption at the central bank level.

• 18:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. We've all seen the BRICS nations announce that they want to get away from the US Treasury and that they're buying gold in the background. We've seen them accumulating gold in the BRICS countries, Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa. The issue here is that Biden's administration made a catastrophic error in shutting off the SWIFT access for Russia and then seizing their treasuries. I mean, they basically just signaled to the world that if you're not a strong ally of the US, we may just take your assets and the ones that we need you to buy.

• 18:58Speaker 02

  Probably the stupidest decision I've seen made at the administration, which there were plenty, but that was unbelievable. So you're seeing the BRICS nations, they're not saying that they want to have their own currency, they just want to get away from owning the US Treasury. So that goes to gold. Of course, they're buying gold. They can store gold and be able to access those dollars that they still need. They still need for cross-border trade. They still need to sell things with the US dollars. So they need the dollar, but they're trying to get away from needing the Treasury. So that goes to... Well, what about Bitcoin? Well, Russia is one of the largest miners of Bitcoin in the world, right? I mean, so they're accumulating it in a way.

• 19:43Speaker 02

  China supposedly shut down Bitcoin, but they're mining it as well. Are they buying it? It's unclear. We don't know. But what we do know is that the United States is talking about buying Bitcoin as a reserve asset. And just that conversation starts this whole game, the whole game theory. So, once one nation, once a G20 starts buying Bitcoin and it's public, well, then game theory is in play, and then they all have to. There's just no way around it.

• 20:16Anthony Pompliano?

  Let's talk about Abu Dhabi Sovereign Wealth Fund buying Bitcoin, but they chose to buy the ETF versus take custody of the Bitcoin. We've seen El Salvador take this off custody, and it feels like there's kind of a twofold decision. There's, I want price exposure, and then there's like, I want to be on the geopolitical board for actually owning the Bitcoin, having the sovereignty, no one can take this from me, kind of sanctions, hedges, all that type of stuff. Will most countries, do you think, say, hey, price exposure first, and then I'll figure out the geopolitical thing? Or do you see most of these countries, those two things are intertwined, and the buying of gold as an example is, yeah, sure, maybe there's a little bit of price, but really they're making a geopolitical decision as to being able to have sovereignty over their economic value?

• 20:57Speaker 03

  Well, I think we don't know exactly if the Abu Dhabi Sovereign Wealth Fund also holds spot Bitcoin. So that's one thing.

• 21:05Anthony Pompliano?

  Good point.

• 21:06Speaker 03

  And then two, you know, in terms of ETFs, I think the convenience is there. Maybe when custody solutions, they get more easy for them, and there's more, these larger counterparties that they have relationships with, that would be more, you know, they'd be more open to building relationships in terms of custodying the Bitcoin. As that develops and the infrastructure develops, I see that maybe becoming more accessible for them. So maybe the ETFs right now are seen as an easier option, but there is that counterparty risk, which kind of negates some of the reasons why you would adopt Bitcoin for a long-term strategic. Asset and so personally, I think a lot of them will see the intrigue of holding spot Bitcoin

• 21:49Speaker 03

  and the sovereignty of it, but also, you know, I think the ETFs are there, but a lot of them might own both and I would, you don't know, we don't know this, but you know, those 13F filings, it for the Abu Dhabi sovereign wealth fund, it's like $20 billion of assets under management because it only looks at the long positions of US equities, but they manage $302 billion. And so I would imagine that some of that is also in spot Bitcoin.

• 22:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, we institutions and institutional investors had a really hard time buying Bitcoin before the ETFs. It's just the operational challenges that Sam kind of alluded to, you know, even if they got the entire investment committee comfort with owning Bitcoin, they still had so many operational issues, meaning, you know, who's going to custody, are you going to have keys? Are we going to have multi-signature solution? Who's going to hold the keys? There are going to be a hierarchy to this, like, what if we lose the keys? Then, my God, that's a, that's a, that's a risk for my career, you know, it's, it's a fiduciary risk. And where do you settle it? Where do you, where, you know, if you're going to have

• 22:57Speaker 02

  a prime broker, what prime broker is going to hold Bitcoin for you? Is there, is there one that available? And then, you know, where do you market? All these things, which in one fell swoop, the ETFs came in and they solved everything because now you could just come in and buy the ETF, just like you can buy the spiders or you can buy the queues and you just put it in your, in your portfolio and it settles at your prime broker. They, they give you margin on it and, and it's super easy and, and you know exactly where it's being held and you don't have to worry about all that operational risk. So it makes sense for some countries to start there. But like Sam said, I agree that, look, once they get comfort with it, they, they're going to want to own the real thing and they're

• 23:41Speaker 02

  going to want to take away that counterparty risk, which is, does Coinbase really have all of the, you know, the ETF, underlying value of Bitcoin for the ETF that they say they do? Unless you have some sort of audit, you just don't know. And so they're going to want to own their own at some point if they really want to get away from the United States. Abu Dhabi doesn't have that issue with us like Russia does or China does. But, you know, I think some of the other countries that are more friendly with the United States will start there, and that makes perfect sense.

• 24:17Anthony Pompliano?

  I could talk to you guys forever, but very quickly, where can people go to find? You guys both put out great writing and podcasts and stuff like that. Where do you want to send people so that they can get more of what you guys are talking about?

• 24:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm on X, @samcallah, S-A-M-C-A-L-L-A-H, and you could find out more about the firm Battery Finance.

• 24:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, so James Lavish on Twitter, and co-managing partner of the Bitcoin Opportunity Fund with David Foley, he's back there somewhere. And we invest in public and private companies in the Bitcoin space. If you want to know about what we're doing, more about what we're doing, just go to bitcoinopportunity.fund and we can talk to you.

• 24:54Anthony Pompliano?

  Amazing. Everyone, Sam Callahan, James Lavish.

• 24:57Speaker 03

  Thank you.