#1452 Anthony & Polina Pompliano | Does Microstrategy Own Too Much Bitcoin?

Polina Pompliano, Author of ‘Hidden Genius’ and Founder of The Profile, and Anthony Pompliano, Author of ‘How To Live An Extraordinary Life’ and CEO of Professional Capital Management, discuss MicroStrategy owning 2% of all bitcoin supply, Daniel Penny case, UnitedHealthcare CEO & the shooter, the vibe shift happening in America, politics, and asset prices. ======================= Ledger has been trusted for 10 years to secure 20% of the world’s digital assets. Their latest devices, Ledger Stax and Ledger Flex, feature secure touchscreens for safer, easier crypto management. Go to ledgerpomp.com to take control of your digital future! ======================= The future is being built today and the future of currency isn’t dollars, euros, pounds, or yen, it’s crypto. And Gemini thinks that’s a great thing. Because a future where money is decentralized, inclusive, and globally accessible, that’s a future that we are anxious to be a part of. Go where dollars won’t. With Gemini. ======================= Pomp writes a daily letter to over 265,000+ investors about business, technology, and finance. He breaks down complex topics into easy-to-understand language while sharing opinions on various aspects of each industry. You can subscribe at https://pomp.substack.com/ ======================= View 10k+ open startup jobs: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://dreamstartupjob.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Enroll in my Crypto Academy: https://www.thecryptoacademy.io/

• 0:02Speaker 00

  What's up everyone? This is Anthony Pompliano. Many of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, which is my effort to find the most interesting people in the world and sit with them for hours while I ask questions in an effort to learn. So it would mean the world to me if you would subscribe to the show on your favorite audio platform, watch episodes on YouTube, and tell your friends and family about the podcast. My goal is to help millions learn from the world's most interesting people. So let's get into today's episode. What's going on guys? Today we've got an awesome episode with Polina Pompliano. She's the editor at The Profile. We talk about, does MicroStrategy own too much Bitcoin? They now have 2% of the supply and should we be concerned about that and what can you do at home? We then get into the Daniel Penny case. We talk about some politics. We also

• 0:46Speaker 00

  get through what is going on with the United Healthcare CEO and the shooter. And then we talk about asset prices and the general vibe shift that's happening on a national scale. This conversation impacts a lot and it tries to make sense of what's going on in the world, both in financial markets and in society at large. Hope you guys enjoy it. Here's the latest conversation with Polina Pompliano.

• 1:04Speaker 01

  Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

• 1:28Speaker 00

  Today's episode is brought to you by Ledger. They're celebrating 10 years as the most trusted name in crypto security. With over 7 million users and 20% of the world's digital assets secured, Ledger continues to lead the way in protecting your crypto and digital ownership. Their latest devices, Ledger Stacks and Ledger Flex, feature the world's first secure touchscreens, making managing your assets easier and safer than ever. Plus, the new Ledger Security Key app offers a secure alternative to traditional passwords, enhancing your digital security. Go to ledgerpomp.com to take control of your digital future. That's ledgerpomp.com. Go check them out today.

• 2:02Speaker 00

  Today's episode is brought to you by Gemini. The future is being built today and the future of currency isn't dollars, euros, pounds, or yen. It's crypto. And Gemini thinks that's a great thing because of future where money is decentralized, inclusive and globally accessible. That's a future that we are anxious to be a part of. Gemini teamed up with futurists, technologists and designers like award-winning artist Matt Griffin, known for his illustrations for Dune, to craft a vision of the future with crypto at its core. The creative theme "Go Where Dollars Won't" emphasizes exploration, growth and the crypto market's limitless potential. Whether it's going on that Martian safari to capture an unforgettable photo of a herd of woolly mammoths grazing the red planet, or using Bitcoin to pay for your Lyft pass

• 2:45Speaker 00

  to go strata skiing down the mountain peak of a breathtaking comet. Whatever adventures we'll be living, one thing is for sure. In a future this fantastic, the limits of traditional currencies simply cannot keep up. Financial innovation will usher in this new frontier. And so, go where dollars won't with Gemini. Go check them out at gemini.com/go-were-dollars-won't. Again, go check it out at gemini.com/go-were-dollars-won't.

• 3:15Speaker 00

  All right, Plana, what's the first topic?

• 3:17Speaker 02

  MicroStrategy just bought another $2.1 billion in Bitcoin while its combination of equity and fixed income security sales to finance this purchase is drawing increased scrutiny. I want to talk about both, but one more stat for the people. MicroStrategy holds $42 billion of Bitcoin, which is 2% of the entire network. Is that too much?

• 3:41Speaker 00

  Don't hate the player, hate the game. If you think about what he's doing is Bitcoin has a lot of paradoxes in it, right? It's supposed to be an electronic peer-to-peer cash system. And so, what that means is that there's democratic ownership. It's accessible to anyone with an internet connection and you should be allowed to buy as much as you want. That is part of a free market and democratic system. With that said, it goes against the ethos of Bitcoin for anyone to own an outsized portion of it, right? The whole idea is that you want everyone to own.

• 4:12Speaker 02

  Does anybody own more than 2%?

• 4:15Speaker 00

  Um, well, the ETFs, ETFs have more Satoshi has more. So there are some, you know, kind of honey pots of Bitcoin. What I think is interesting about this is again, there's, there's a lot of paradoxes in this question. And the answer is not as clear as people want it to be. So Bitcoin's supposed to be democratized ownership and decentralized ownership. No matter how much Bitcoin you own, you don't control more than ever. There's no special power from owning a lot of Bitcoin. So whether you own one Bitcoin or you own 423,000 Bitcoin, you get to use the Bitcoin network the same way everybody else gets to use it. With that said, it definitely goes against the ethos of Bitcoin for somebody to own a lot, a lot of it. Now, it's a free market.

• 4:58Speaker 00

  Everyone should be able to buy whatever they want to buy. And so I think a lot of Bitcoiners are saying to themselves, hey, it's his right to go and buy as much as he can buy. It's his self interest to do that. But I don't love the fact that somebody owns more than 2%. I don't love the fact that he's probably going to own more than 2% because he's going to keep buying. But hey, that's the game. So don't hate the player, hate the game. Now, what I do think is also another fair point is somebody wrote to me and they said, yeah, but micro strategy is owned by shareholders. And so there is some democratized ownership of the company which then owns the Bitcoin, similar to how BlackRock has, I think it's something like 500,000 Bitcoin in their fund,

• 5:39Speaker 00

  but that fund is then owned by a bunch of individuals and organizations, etc. And so it's just not black and white. And so the question shouldn't be, does he own too much? It just is a thing. He owns 2%. He's probably going to own more. Instead, what I think people should be focused on are things that they can control. If you don't like Michael Saylor owning 2%, go buy more. Go try to compete. And ultimately, I think that's what the Bitcoin system does is it incentivizes people to compete rather than complain, which is obviously a much better system.

• 6:11Speaker 02

  So this is the fifth consecutive week that he has bought Bitcoin in a large amount.

• 6:19Speaker 02

  Just remind the people, how is he getting billions of dollars to buy?

• 6:23Speaker 00

  He's raising it. He's raising debt and equity. He's selling shares in his company to get money to buy Bitcoin. And he's raising debt. He's issuing convertible notes and he's raising that capital.

• 6:34Speaker 02

  Is there a world in which things go down for Bitcoin as a result?

• 6:40Speaker 00

  I don't know the exact numbers. Man, it sounds awesome to talk about like risky things with a voice like this right now.

• 6:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:46Speaker 00

  Just sounds kind of like, you know, extra scary. If you think about how much Bitcoin he owns, I think the number is somewhere around 40 billion, 45 billion, 42 billion. Okay. So he's got 42 billion. I believe that he has seven or eight billion dollars of debt. But let's just say it's 10 billion of debt and 40 billion of Bitcoin. Easy numbers. I got a small brain. So if you own 40 billion dollars of Bitcoin and you have 10 billion dollars of debt, people are worried that, oh my God, he's taking on too much debt. Bitcoin would have to draw down 75%. And then if after the 75% drawdown, he sold all the Bitcoin, he could pay off all the debt.

• 7:24Speaker 02

  Got it.

• 7:25Speaker 00

  So there's this like margin of error in terms of how much the Bitcoin is worth versus what the debt is. Now, has Bitcoin drawn down 75% before? Absolutely. But I think what would end up happening is as the price was drawing down, he would be buying more. And so it's very hard to see a world where he owes back money and doesn't have enough Bitcoin on the balance sheet to pay back the debt.

• 7:47Speaker 02

  Got it.

• 7:47Speaker 00

  Now that doesn't necessarily address the equity in the company. And that's a whole different kind of discussion and argument around the multiple of which he has. Because the company's worth more than the 40 billion dollars of Bitcoin that's sitting on the balance sheet. So he should get some credit for the software company, but maybe that's a billion dollars. And then he's got 40 billion of Bitcoin or 42 billion of Bitcoin. So let's just say it's like 43, 44 billion dollars of quote unquote book value for all the value investor nerds out there. But it's trading at something like 90 billion dollars in market cap, I think, or maybe 100 billion dollars, whatever it is that. And so people are asking themselves, why is the company trading so much higher market cap than the Bitcoin plus the software company?

• 8:30Speaker 00

  And really, that comes down to there's a premium on the Bitcoin. And then really, what I think most people are missing in this is the market is assigning some sort of multiple on his ability to continue to raise capital and buy more Bitcoin. So they're saying, well, if he can keep doing this and he's doing it to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars per day, well, that looks a lot like revenue. It's just that through the traditional accounting metrics, you can't count it as revenue because it's not booked from a customer.

• 8:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:56Speaker 00

  But if it ends up on your balance sheet, it looks like revenue. And so what he's doing is he's continuing to acquire more and more Bitcoin. They're giving him some sort of multiple for that. The question is, we're in uncharted territory. What is the multiple? Is the multiple too high? Is it too low? Like, like, there's a lot of questions here. And so what I think a lot of sophisticated investors are doing is they're throwing up their hands and they're saying, I can't figure this out. This is too new. There's too many kind of, there's too much smoke here. There must be a fire. And so I'm not going to participate. Now, I say that, but then you go and you look at the cap table, and again, with the paradoxes of this whole thing, is like BlackRock and Fidelity and like all these companies, you know, they all own a lot of micro strategy.

• 9:37Speaker 02

  That doesn't mean it's not risky.

• 9:39Speaker 00

  It doesn't mean that it's not risky, but I'm just saying that on one hand, you have a lot of smart people who are like, hey, I'm not going to participate. On the other hand, you've got a lot of smart people who are saying, I am going to participate. And so this is what makes markets. This is why it's so controversial, is people are betting on both sides. So far, the people who've bought micro strategy stock and Ben Long have been right. Now, are they always going to be right? We don't know. We're going to find out. But I think that you can't just simply say, a company is involved with Bitcoin, they must be good or they must be bad. But I think that's really the discourse right now online is people are basically using micro strategy as a proxy for Bitcoin. And so my argument is just do extra work, right? There's more to it than just a proxy for Bitcoin.

• 10:23Speaker 00

  And so if you don't like Bitcoin, go and understand what he's doing and figure out whether you agree with it or not. If you like Bitcoin, you still go look what he's doing and see if you agree with it or not. And make sure you don't just make the kind of simple analogy of, oh, if he's involved with Bitcoin, it must be good or bad.

• 10:38Speaker 02

  Right. And also, I mean, nobody talks about this, but they should. There's key man risk. Michael Saylor, yeah, is the CEO and founder of this company. But what if one day he's not?

• 10:50Speaker 00

  Well, he's not the CEO anymore. He stepped down. He became the chairman. Yeah. And I do ask people all the time, you know, when, when people say, uh, there's no risk, I always say, well, who's CEO? And they can't name the CEO. And I say, okay.

• 11:01Speaker 02

  I literally don't know who the CEO of MicroStrategy.

• 11:03Speaker 00

  So the, the point being that, um, Michael Saylor has been one of the best, uh, kind of promoters of Bitcoin, MicroStrategy, et cetera. Uh, it's no different than, you know, take us Steve Jobs and Apple, right? Like Steve Jobs was Apple and there was a lot of, of vacuum of value when Steve Jobs died.

• 11:25Speaker 02

  Right.

• 11:25Speaker 00

  So Michael Saylor, he's relatively young guy. Um, he seems healthy, all, you know, all those kinds of things. But there's always key man risk, right? That there, there's all kinds of stuff that could happen. And so, um, I just think that people who keep saying there's no risk, again, I'm not saying that there is obvious risk. I'm just saying that when you say there's no risk in something.

• 11:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:46Speaker 00

  That is usually not a good, uh, not a good scenario.

• 11:50Speaker 02

  Okay. Um, off of that, there's been a crypto vibe shift.

• 11:54Speaker 00

  No, there's a national vibe.

• 11:55Speaker 02

  A national vibe shift, but specifically there's, you know, in crypto markets. Donald Trump has appointed former PayPal Chief Operating Officer David Sacks as his White House AI and crypto czar. It's so funny. I don't know these titles. Um, another step towards overhauling US policy. Sacks will guide the administration's policies for AI and cryptocurrency. Some of that work includes creating a legal framework for crypto as well as leading a presidential council of advisors on science and technology. You know, David, right?

• 12:27Speaker 00

  I do.

• 12:27Speaker 02

  You have interviewed him?

• 12:28Speaker 00

  I did.

• 12:29Speaker 02

  And you have spoken to him privately?

• 12:31Speaker 00

  I did.

• 12:31Speaker 02

  Okay. Um, what do we think about Sacks being a crypto czar?

• 12:36Speaker 00

  David Sacks is the icing on the cake of Silicon Valley's infiltration of Washington DC. Washington DC, they thought they were the big brother and that they were going to beat up on little brother Silicon Valley. And they've been coming at them over and over and over and over again. They overregulated them, they de-banked them, they mocked them in the media, they called them stupid, they said they were greedy, they did all these things to them. And Silicon Valley sat there and was a punching bag for a decade. And now Silicon Valley is having the last laugh because if you look and see throughout this entire administration, it's like Peter Thiel's entire ecosystem has now successfully penetrated Washington DC and they're in charge. It's like the meme, you know, the I'm the captain now.

• 13:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:21Speaker 00

  That's what's happened. So if you go and you look, J D Vance is the Vice President of the United States. David Sacks is the AI and crypto czar. Elon Musk is basically like the consigliere to the president and he's everywhere, right? You just go through all this stuff and you realize, wait, Vivek Ramaswamy, he's running Doge. All of these people, Thiel invested in them, they were in the orbit, they were at PayPal, et cetera. And so what I think has happened is that we have very intelligent people who have been hyper successful. If you look at the cabinet, it's the most number of billionaires that's ever been in a cabinet.

• 13:54Speaker 02

  That's what I was gonna say. This is, I think, another reason for the vibe shift is normally, these billionaires, you know, people in the private markets are normally like, oh, I can have more control and more influence outside of politics, but that's shifted.

• 14:09Speaker 00

  Nah, let me, let me, I'm gonna give a, an example that people may not like, but it's the truth and that's what I, I'm gonna just say it. Miami is full of a lot of fake money. And in 2021, real money showed up.

• 14:23Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 14:24Speaker 00

  All of the billionaires, et cetera, showed up to Miami. And a lot of the like flexing of rented cars and fake watches and all that shit, it kind of scattered into the corners. It's like somebody flipped on a light and the rats scatter. That's what happened because what ends up happening is all the flaunting and flexing and all this stuff, right? Not the true Miamians. It's like the people who come, they're like, you know, they like come to there because they think that's what is cool. And they all start flexing on each other and it's all for like Instagram.

• 14:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:55Speaker 00

  When the real money showed up, all of a sudden, those people feel inferior. If you pretend to be rich and you sit next to a real billionaire. It's like, dude, shut, like, it's just obvious, right? That's what's happening in Washington DC. Is there's real intelligence? There's real value creation. These people have been successful at many things they've done in their life. They never cared about politics. But now they care. And so it's like they've turned their attention and they said, you guys are fucking up. You guys are wasting money. You're creating this huge bureaucracy. You guys are absolutely decimating our country, our society and our economy. We're coming to fix it.

• 15:40Speaker 00

  And usually Washington DC could sit there and say, oh my God, the tech people, they are so arrogant. They think they can fix this. Look at how evil they are. They're billionaires, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever. The American people just gave a mandate to the tech industry to go and fix this shit. Because Donald Trump won the popular vote. And so when you think about that, you say, wait a second. What if everything goes right? And they actually can fix it? Do you think that Elon Musk can run the DMV better than is being run right now?

• 16:14Speaker 02

  The immigration process?

• 16:16Speaker 00

  Just pick anything in the government. I bet you that the private sector, successful business leaders can run it better. And if you don't believe me, why is Palantir so successful?

• 16:31Speaker 02

  I just think all the bureaucracy is harder to get rid of than we think.

• 16:36Speaker 00

  Unless you fire everybody.

• 16:38Speaker 02

  Still, it's, it's a machine that's so entrenched in.

• 16:42Speaker 00

  Unless you fire everybody.

• 16:44Speaker 02

  Um, wait.

• 16:45Speaker 00

  You want to know what, what's actually going to kill the bureaucracy?

• 16:47Speaker 02

  What?

• 16:48Speaker 00

  It has nothing to do with the people who are there.

• 16:50Speaker 02

  It's the culture.

• 16:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, I, I, I keep saying it and I, I don't want to use names, but like, I am shocked. I, I had breakfast this morning with a guy who, uh, worked at a hedge fund. Super successful, went to a very, very well-known school. Um, incredibly intelligent. Said to me that, uh, yeah, he's like, I'm surprised. How many of my friends don't work hard? I said, well, how many hours a day do you work? He said, I don't know, like 12, 14 hours. Right? Like this guy's like super just hard charging, very successful. Somebody that I would love to come and work at one of our businesses. And I said, well, what are you going to do next? Cause he just left a very well-known investors, uh, family office. He said, I want to go work in the administration.

• 17:32Speaker 00

  That kid should never ever want to work in the government until now. Because guess what? The same people who want to go work at SpaceX and Tesla and Boring Company, Neuralink, etc. They now are like, well, maybe I can just go work at Doge and go take a sledgehammer and destroy all this bureaucracy. So I think Doge is going to become a very high status thing. If you can put that on your resume, that's going to be like you went to, you know, Stanford in the 90s, or you went to work at Uber in the early days or whatever. And people are going to say, oh, you must be smart. And so what does that do? That pulls in the smart people. And so I just think that people are drastically underestimating what is possible when you

• 18:15Speaker 00

  bring people who are very focused, who are very enthusiastic, and who are used to getting things done.

• 18:23Speaker 02

  I also think that it's interesting, especially for Trump and the whole administration, how JD Vance used to be very critical of Trump. He's now the VP. Sacks used to, not that long ago, was very critical of Trump. If you remember in the All In podcast, after January 6th, David Sacks said that Trump was clearly responsible for the events of January 6th, and that he had disqualified himself from being a candidate at a national level. And now he like held a fundraiser for Trump two months ago.

• 18:56Speaker 00

  I think that there's a lot of change that has happened in the last four years, but definitely over the last eight years. And so I've talked, well, I've talked to a number of different people. And a few people have said to me, hey, I knew Trump before he was president. I spent some time with him when he was the president the first time. I've never seen him this locked in, focused and serious about this. Right? So let's just say that nobody's perfect, but there's an element of like, imagine you do a job. Then you get a second chance at doing the job.

• 19:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:33Speaker 00

  Most people who are idiots would say, I'm better prepared to do the job the second time. And so what I think happened the first time in my kind of analysis and talking to a lot of these different people is that the Trump administration today believes that Trump did not think he was going to win in 2016. When he won, it was basically chaos. And they were like, oh, shoot, we got to put all these people in these different positions. Well, who do we get? And all these names started getting thrown at them from the establishment. And so he just started picking the people that the establishment was telling him were the right people. He had been firing most of those people. And so if that is true, then if you look now, there's

• 20:18Speaker 00

  very few establishment people that he's picking. RFK is in charge of health. Kosh Patel is going to be in charge of the FBI. Tulsi Gabbard, I mean, you just go down the line, you're like, there's no establishment players.

• 20:30Speaker 02

  Do you know why I'm so worried, though?

• 20:31Speaker 00

  Why?

• 20:32Speaker 02

  I'm so worried because of the size of the egos of these people all working together.

• 20:38Speaker 00

  If you think these people have egos, wait till you meet politicians and government officials.

• 20:42Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 20:43Speaker 00

  You ever been at the TSA, walk into the airport? I've never seen someone puff their chest out so much to tell me to take my computer out of my bag, or to ask me six times what I took everything out of my pocket.

• 20:54Speaker 02

  Well, did you?

• 20:55Speaker 00

  No disrespect to the TSA. I like you guys. We're cool, chill. I don't need the secondary search. But I'm just saying, if you think about it, it's human nature. If you're put in a position of power, that there's ego to it, right? You ever, you want to know another one that's crazy? American Airlines, we can go off on them too, because they just changed the rules. Now, if you got a roller bag and you have a garment bag, the garment bag counts as a second roller bag.

• 21:23Speaker 02

  As it should.

• 21:24Speaker 00

  What are you talking about? You get two bags. They're like, no, you get a personal bag.

• 21:28Speaker 02

  Isn't that a personal bag?

• 21:29Speaker 00

  No. See, now here we go. How crazy is this?

• 21:32Speaker 02

  Okay, hold on.

• 21:32Speaker 00

  For my entire life, you could easily bring a roller bag and a garment bag. And now, these bureaucrats changed it.

• 21:41Speaker 02

  All right. So back to the billionaires and their ego.

• 21:43Speaker 00

  How are you gonna have people try to get on the plane and you tell them? This literally happened to me recently, but this is serious.

• 21:49Speaker 02

  This is just becoming a grievance.

• 21:50Speaker 00

  This is serious.

• 21:51Speaker 02

  Go on, go on, get it out.

• 21:53Speaker 00

  This is, I just want to highlight this. Like, I was standing here, I was standing there in this moment, and I said to myself, this is a perfect example of how stupid our economy and country has become.

• 22:03Speaker 02

  He called me in the moment.

• 22:05Speaker 00

  I was so mad.

• 22:05Speaker 02

  And he goes, I see a woman with a dog over there.

• 22:08Speaker 00

  Let me explain, let me explain. So it's six o'clock in the morning, I'm waking my ass up to go to the airport, to go on this plane. I'm gonna fly somewhere, I'm gonna go to one lunch, and I'm gonna fly back the same day.

• 22:19Speaker 02

  Personal choice.

• 22:20Speaker 00

  Already, well, because I love my family, I want to spend time with them. So I'm gonna go do this, right? I'm there, there's a bunch of other people, there's only two people at six o'clock in the morning that are on planes. There's families where the parents look like they're ready to jump off the building because their kids are acting crazy at six o'clock in the morning. And then there's business people who are, you know, flying for stuff. Yeah. So there's a line of all business people, we got our roller bags, and then we got our garment bag. Don't ask me why I got a roller bag, just for one day, whatever. So I'm in line, I'm the second guy in line. First guy goes, they say, hey, sir, to the guy in front of me, hey, sir, you can't bring the garment bag, you have two bags.

• 23:01Speaker 00

  He says, what? And they say, yes, that is considered a second bag. And he says, what? So I'm like, ah, that guy must have done something stupid. I go, they tell me the same thing. There's like six people in a row, they say this to, and now they all got us pulled over, like we're like speeding or something. They got us pulled over to the side.

• 23:18Speaker 02

  Speeding with your garment.

• 23:19Speaker 00

  And they want us to fold up the garment bags, put them into the roller bag, go down the little jetway, and then we can take it out.

• 23:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:26Speaker 00

  So it's like, it's like a stupid thing, right?

• 23:28Speaker 02

  They did the same with me with my satchel.

• 23:29Speaker 00

  It's stupid.

• 23:30Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 23:30Speaker 00

  While I am doing this, while I have the bag down, I'm unzipping it, putting it in, whatever. Again, it's not the end of the world, but it's just, it's dumb, right? It's like a bureaucratic stupid thing. I swear to you, I saw a woman who was like four or five people behind me, walk onto the plane, she got a roller bag, she got a backpack, and then she's got like a, what do they call it, like a, like a?

• 23:51Speaker 02

  Satchel.

• 23:52Speaker 00

  A satchel thing, but in the satchel is a fucking dog. And I'm like, wait a minute, that woman has three bags and a pet? And I can't bring a roller bag and a garment bag on the plane?

• 24:03Speaker 02

  Guys, just so you have context for me, I'm on the other side of this phone call and all I hear is, they're making me shove my bag and that woman has a dog. And I'm like, what is happening at the airport?

• 24:15Speaker 00

  So my point is, it's like, like the country for the last four or five years, just devolved into stupidity. Think about what has to happen for a rule to get created that generally, the business people fly the most often. They're probably responsible for a very material percent of your revenue.

• 24:43Speaker 00

  The garment bags are not the thing that's taking up size in the, in the plane. For you to change the rules and do this type of stuff, it's just bureaucratic nonsense. There's no common sense whatsoever. And so I use that as an example, because if you bring it all the way back to the government, that's in a private company. What do you think is going on inside of these government organizations?

• 25:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:08Speaker 00

  There is nonsense. You ever gone to the DMV? And as you go through the process, say to yourself, this makes no sense?

• 25:16Speaker 02

  Um, yeah.

• 25:17Speaker 00

  It's like the entire experience makes no sense.

• 25:19Speaker 02

  Wait, this is, this has been the case. All US airlines count a garment bag as a carry on and not as a personal item. This is back in like 2019.

• 25:28Speaker 00

  No, that's never been the case.

• 25:32Speaker 02

  I know. The people in the comments tell us if.

• 25:34Speaker 00

  That's never been the case.

• 25:35Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 25:36Speaker 00

  Crazy. Cause I asked a woman after the, it happened a third time, by the way. This is like, now they're like enforcing this or whatever. So I asked the woman, if I say, hey, listen, I, I, the last two times I flew, this happened. Can you explain to me, did something change? And she said, uh, uh, she said, yeah, it's a new thing.

• 25:51Speaker 02

  Really?

• 25:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, so American Airlines. I listen, I always been promoting. I always say I like you guys. I even still liked you when you took the TVs out of the headrest.

• 26:00Speaker 02

  The TVs.

• 26:02Speaker 00

  That's alright, but listen, the garment bag, y'all gonna lose me.

• 26:05Speaker 02

  Um, so back to the egos. You don't think that so many billionaires in one room are, everybody has such strong opinions, such strong, I know, but like, do you not?

• 26:16Speaker 00

  It's better to have billionaires who all have strong opinions and are trying to get shit done than a bunch of NPCs who are hiding behind the blob and not getting anything done.

• 26:24Speaker 02

  What is an NPC? Do I know that?

• 26:26Speaker 00

  It's like, you know, in a video game, the, the people who no one controls, they just kind of move around.

• 26:31Speaker 02

  Ah.

• 26:32Speaker 00

  You didn't know what an NPC, man.

• 26:34Speaker 02

  I don't know. I don't play video games.

• 26:36Speaker 00

  Move on, let's move on.

• 26:37Speaker 02

  Who plays video games?

• 26:38Speaker 00

  Let's go to the next one.

• 26:40Speaker 02

  Anyway, alright, speaking of nonsense.

• 26:42Speaker 00

  You gonna get a lot of, you gonna get heat for that one.

• 26:45Speaker 02

  NPC, non-person what?

• 26:47Speaker 00

  Non-player character.

• 26:48Speaker 02

  Non-player character.

• 26:49Speaker 00

  Alright, go ahead. What's the next topic?

• 26:50Speaker 02

  God. You called me an NPC?

• 26:53Speaker 00

  No.

• 26:53Speaker 02

  Oh, okay. Non-player character. I'll think of that. Okay, so marine veteran Daniel Penny was acquitted by a Manhattan jury Monday in the death of Jordan Neely. Jurors cleared Penny, a 26-year-old Long Islander, of criminally negligent homicide after the caught-on-camera fatal encounter on an Uptown F-Train last year.

• 27:15Speaker 00

  Hero.

• 27:16Speaker 02

  Um, yeah.

• 27:17Speaker 00

  Hero.

• 27:18Speaker 02

  And the thing is that I think more and more people are coming out and saying that, how on earth did we try this man for something that is so blatantly and obviously like, he did the right thing? And it was not racially motivated or politically motivated or, or any, like, I, I think that Daniel Penny would have done that, no matter who was, you know, acting.

• 27:43Speaker 00

  My, uh, my prediction, my prediction is, uh, the United States is gonna go back to old-school ethos. We gonna bring back hard work. We're gonna bring back respectfulness. We're gonna bring back, uh, the fact that if you go somewhere, imagine if you went somewhere in Texas, and you walked into a bar, and you started saying, "I'm gonna kill you." You get your ass whooped. But for some reason, people are like, oh, if it's on the subway in New York, ah, you can say whatever you want, right? So what's gonna end up happening here is that people who have a proclivity to act this way

• 28:26Speaker 00

  are going to start to realize, wait a minute, that's not appropriate. Now, it's a very delicate situation because a guy died and no one deserves to die.

• 28:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:39Speaker 00

  But what came out in the trial, which I paid very close attention to, is that the story that was told by the mainstream media is not the truth. What actually happened is that Daniel Penny did not choke this man out and kill him. Instead, what happened is Daniel Penny restrained him, had him in a chokehold. When the police arrived, he was breathing.

• 29:03Speaker 00

  And they did not want to give him mouth to mouth because they were scared they were gonna get HIV, which is, if you think of the definition of a hero, if the police show up to a scene and they don't want to involve themselves.

• 29:15Speaker 02

  Because they're.

• 29:16Speaker 00

  Because they're scared.

• 29:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:18Speaker 00

  Imagine the self-sacrifice and courage that takes for a civilian to do it.

• 29:24Speaker 00

  The people on the train are thanking Daniel Penny for protecting them. Right after the situation.

• 29:32Speaker 00

  But then this guy dies. And it comes out in trial that he had a bunch of K2, like the synthetic marijuana stuff. He had a bunch of medical history stuff, all these different things that they think actually led to him ultimately dying. And so again, it's very sad. I don't think anyone, you know, wants to see somebody die, et cetera. But what the media said was, it made it sound like Daniel Penny was sitting there choking him until literally he didn't breathe anymore and he killed him, you know, with his bare hands, got up and like cheered about it.

• 30:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:05Speaker 00

  And that's not what happened. And so my point all along has been, Daniel Penny acted heroically on that subway.

• 30:15Speaker 00

  But the unspoken hero of the story is the jury. Because there's a lot of pressure to just go with the charade and say, well, you know, they're charging this guy. It's just easier to just say, yeah, just, yeah, he's guilty. Court of public opinion, blah, blah, whatever.

• 30:31Speaker 02

  And the jury was mostly women and.

• 30:34Speaker 00

  Come on, women, women don't want to live in a society where people have a green light to go on the subway and threaten women and children. That's crazy. That's insane. Right? So the headlines were Daniel Penny, you know, kills man on subway. Why isn't the headline, Daniel Penny heroically saves women and children on subway?

• 31:01Speaker 02

  I think.

• 31:01Speaker 00

  Same story, whole different perspective.

• 31:03Speaker 02

  I think that the narratives of yesteryear are kind of gone and now people are more back to like common sense. Even I was looking at Twitter and, um, you know, some of the tweets that were like, I can't believe Daniel Penny is acquitted and all this stuff. The responses just show that the sentiment is not.

• 31:22Speaker 00

  Vibe shift.

• 31:23Speaker 02

  Shocking.

• 31:23Speaker 00

  It's vibe shift because ultimately what people I think realize is, hold on a second. If you start to implement these crazy policies, you're going to inch your way towards the society you don't want to live in. So it's all fun and games when you're yelling and screaming about something that doesn't impact you. But I said it, I said, listen, if you and our children were on a subway car.

• 31:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:47Speaker 00

  And some guy gets on there and starts saying, I'm gonna kill people. I pray that there's a man on there with enough courage and balls to knock him the fuck out. Right? Because at the end of the day, what are you gonna do? You gonna let him actually do something?

• 32:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, not fun fact. One time, very early on, Anthony and I were, had just met. So this maybe was like our second or third date. I don't know.

• 32:11Speaker 00

  I don't know what story you're about to tell.

• 32:13Speaker 02

  What? No, no, no.

• 32:14Speaker 00

  Go ahead, just go ahead. Well, I'm proud of everything I ever did.

• 32:20Speaker 02

  No, this is not like that. But we were in a nice Italian restaurant.

• 32:27Speaker 00

  Oh yeah, I know this story. Hell yeah.

• 32:30Speaker 02

  Minding our own damn business.

• 32:33Speaker 00

  It's crazy.

• 32:33Speaker 02

  So I'm sitting here, Anthony's facing me and I'm, I can see the door.

• 32:38Speaker 00

  So which I hate.

• 32:39Speaker 02

  Back to the door from, yeah, since then he always has to face the door.

• 32:43Speaker 00

  No, I always was like that. I was just being nice to the lady, let her sit in the lady's seat.

• 32:47Speaker 02

  Okay. Well, I was in the lady's seat and

• 32:50Speaker 00

  That is, that's the lady's seat in the bench.

• 32:53Speaker 02

  Stop it. So then, um, we just hear commotion. Then I turn and I see a table flip. I see glass shatter everywhere. Like what is going on? People are fighting on tables.

• 33:06Speaker 00

  No, there's a, there's a, uh, hold on a second. The, there is a guy who's in the restaurant, like a, like a patron who is fighting the general manager. And they are, and they're going to the ground and, and the table flips over, et cetera. And what I quickly realized is that the waitress runs around from behind the bar and she grabs a knife off the table and she is going to stab the general manager.

• 33:32Speaker 02

  It was crazy.

• 33:32Speaker 00

  And it quickly, I realized that the patron is her father.

• 33:36Speaker 02

  Well, you didn't realize, I think we learned that.

• 33:38Speaker 00

  No, no, no, they're yelling at each other and she's yelling dad, et cetera, whatever. And so all this is happening and people in New York, they're just eating. They literally don't even stop.

• 33:49Speaker 02

  The people next to us kept eating their salads and I was like, guys, there's a fight going on.

• 33:54Speaker 00

  So I get up and, uh,

• 33:56Speaker 02

  Important to note, without saying anything to me.

• 33:58Speaker 00

  They, they were starting to kind of separate a little bit. The woman did not stab anyone. She's like kind of pulling the guy, whatever. And so I get the dad and I just take him and I was like, kind of put my arm around him. Hey man, let's go outside. And we walk outside and he's hammered. He's like drunk off his ass. And so, uh, I say to him, I say, hey, where do you live? And he says some address. I said, all right, man, I think you should go home. And so, uh, I flagged down a cab, uh, I put him in the car and I say to the cab driver, here's some money, take this man home, whatever he says, just take him home. And as they're driving away, I hear the guy say, nah, I don't need to go home.

• 34:37Speaker 00

  And so, uh, yeah, sometimes you just, you, you don't need to, you don't need to intervene, obviously if it's dangerous, et cetera. But it's just like, if you want to live in a society of us that where there's civilized people, where, uh, you'd be happy for your family to live in, your kids to grow up in, et cetera. Uh, it takes good people to always try to de-escalate and help people, et cetera. And so like, who knows what's going on in that guy's life? Maybe he had a bad day. Maybe he lost his job. Maybe somebody got hurt. What, who knows?

• 35:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:10Speaker 00

  But he probably is not proud of the fact that at his daughter's work, he's getting in a fistfight with her boss.

• 35:16Speaker 02

  Right.

• 35:17Speaker 00

  Shout out daughter who's ready to throw down for pop, but that's a whole different story, right? Probably not, you probably don't have a job for very long for grabbing a knife on your boss. But it's just like, again, you know, you don't need to get involved other than just, hey, man, like, just, just take a deep breath. Just let's go outside, right? Um, and so, uh, yeah, I don't know. It's just like, you, you just gotta do the right thing.

• 35:42Speaker 02

  To look away. And we've told the story before. I'm not going to get into it again. But like, I thought that I was one of the people where I was like, if something happens, I'm there. I'm, I'm inserting myself. But like, no, you freeze when you don't know what's going on. Um, when we were walking down the street, there was a man in the street.

• 36:00Speaker 00

  Saved two people's lives.

• 36:01Speaker 02

  Okay, okay. So this, this guy probably actually, but he was laying in the street. He was non-responsive. People thought that he had died. Um, so I was like, oh my God, I can't, I can't even look. Like I was so, he had smashed his face. It was bad. Um,

• 36:18Speaker 00

  How you gonna let a man just lay in the middle of the street with a smashed face?

• 36:21Speaker 02

  My point is-

• 36:21Speaker 00

  No, not, not you. I'm saying all these people are standing around him.

• 36:24Speaker 02

  There were 16 people around him and nobody was doing anything.

• 36:26Speaker 00

  It's crazy. And not, he was, and he was barely breathing. And when we, when we walked up on this, I said, what happened? And everyone says, I don't know. And nobody was doing, no one was calling the police, nobody was doing anything. They were all just staring at him like he, we're in a museum.

• 36:39Speaker 02

  It was crazy.

• 36:39Speaker 00

  It's insane. And so it's like, yo, hey, are you okay? What happened? Whatever. Go get the police. Go, you know what I mean? Try, try to help somebody. Because I always think about- If it was me in the situation, would I want somebody to help me? And to be honest, I haven't said this before, but um, I think that's why I tweeted about Daniel Penny. Is because uh.

• 37:01Speaker 02

  It was, by the way, it was really bothering Anthony for a long time.

• 37:04Speaker 00

  That shit ate at me for like weeks.

• 37:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:07Speaker 00

  And I, and I knew, and I knew that most people probably thought the same thing. But it's just like, i- is it worth it?

• 37:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:15Speaker 00

  Is it worth actually talking about this thing? And I think what I ultimately said to myself was, if it was me who was sitting there on trial for something that I shouldn't be here for, I hope people have, you know, the uh, the wherewithal to speak up. And here's the crazy thing, is when I tweeted that, people saw the public reaction. The private reaction was even crazier. I had people I haven't talked to in years, I had people who are highly successful uh, that are in the news every day, like, like just, I had reporters, I had producers at TV stations, all these people reach out to me and say, thank you for saying something.

• 37:58Speaker 00

  And I'm sitting there thinking to myself, how is it that me with like a little Twitter account, saying something and all these people think the same thing? But that's a society that we live in. And so I think it's changing, vibe shift is happening, that's good, that's healthy.

• 38:15Speaker 02

  Proud of you.

• 38:16Speaker 00

  But there, but there's a lot of, I mean, there's a lot of stuff, now here's the reverse, the healthcare killer.

• 38:21Speaker 02

  Okay, so let's talk about the healthcare killer.

• 38:22Speaker 00

  This guy.

• 38:23Speaker 02

  So.

• 38:24Speaker 00

  Y'all, y'all lost your minds talking about this guy on the internet.

• 38:27Speaker 02

  A CEO was shot in cold blood um, in front of his hotel where he was going to do like an investor day. United Healthcare CEO, killed uh, straight up in the back, crazy video, insane.

• 38:44Speaker 00

  Coward shit.

• 38:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, and nobody, they couldn't find this guy for five days, nobody was calling in, we had his face, we had everything, nothing, nobody was saying who it was. We now know it's a 26 year old Stanford graduate?

• 38:58Speaker 00

  Penn.

• 38:58Speaker 02

  Penn, sorry, my god, Stanford, I'm sorry, Penn graduate um, named Luigi Mangione.

• 39:06Speaker 00

  Do you want to know something funny about Penn?

• 39:08Speaker 02

  No.

• 39:08Speaker 00

  I saw a great meme on the internet. They had a, they had Trump.

• 39:13Speaker 02

  Be careful.

• 39:13Speaker 00

  No, they had Trump's mugshot and they had Luigi and they said the pen to prison pipeline is strong.

• 39:19Speaker 02

  Oh God. Well, wait, where was this?

• 39:22Speaker 00

  It's a joke. It's funny.

• 39:23Speaker 02

  So here's my question. So we have Luigi. He has now been charged, but.

• 39:29Speaker 00

  No, he has not been charged with the.

• 39:31Speaker 02

  He's been charged.

• 39:32Speaker 00

  Did he get charged today?

• 39:33Speaker 02

  One, 11 hours and six minutes ago. One count of second degree murder? How is that second degree murder?

• 39:39Speaker 00

  Listen, I, I.

• 39:40Speaker 02

  No intent.

• 39:41Speaker 00

  Before we get to all this, first of all, this is all alleged. This is all alleged. We'll figure out what's going on.

• 39:46Speaker 02

  I mean, he has been charged.

• 39:47Speaker 00

  No, no, it's charged, but I'm just saying, gotta go to court.

• 39:50Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 39:50Speaker 00

  Court will determine whether you're guilty or not. But I want to specifically two things that I haven't heard people talk about. The first, if you've got a problem with somebody, going back to the old school way.

• 40:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:05Speaker 00

  You show up, you would confront them to their face. You guys may scrap a little bit, you know, punch each other, whatever. You walk away. It takes somebody with just absolute, complete lack of like, what it is to be a man, to get a gun and to go ambush somebody.

• 40:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:33Speaker 00

  And to execute them from behind.

• 40:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, you don't like the executing.

• 40:37Speaker 00

  That's like some little just coward stuff, right? Because it, it goes back to, if you're such a tough guy, that you think, you know, you're justified, whatever. Make it a fair fight, right? But that's not what this is about. It, it, it's like something different. And so, um, I just think like, nobody is really talking about this element of like, we've devolved into a society where like, this person became judge, jury and executioner.

• 41:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:18Speaker 00

  Right? Versus.

• 41:22Speaker 00

  A different way, maybe they were had been handled, you know, decades ago. That's first of all. Second of all, this blew people's minds that it is a Ivy League graduate that went to a $40,000 a year, you know, high school, all this stuff. Now I'm gonna say something that, uh, I don't like making a lot of predictions, but I did tell you all Trump was gonna win by a landslide. Um, and so I'm gonna go out on a limb.

• 41:48Speaker 02

  Oh, God.

• 41:51Speaker 00

  There's another vibe shift that's gonna happen. And it's a great paradox of our society. Veterans who have PTSD, etc., are reporting in large numbers, the benefits of psychedelics.

• 42:05Speaker 02

  Microdosing.

• 42:06Speaker 00

  Microdosing, ayahuasca, all this stuff.

• 42:12Speaker 00

  They got real problems, and they found a solution that can help them.

• 42:17Speaker 02

  And it was usually like a medical solution.

• 42:21Speaker 00

  Somewhere along the way, a bunch of rich kids decided that they were gonna start to use these to solve their invented problems.

• 42:38Speaker 00

  Society is gonna turn on all these medicines because what they're going to realize is, which the science shows, is that they can be triggering. It's a small percentage of people, but it can be triggering.

• 42:51Speaker 02

  Of course it can.

• 42:51Speaker 00

  And can create these, you know, kind of, uh, manic episodes, these like psychotic episodes, whatever. If you're changing the chemistry of your brain, alcohol, weed, cocaine.

• 43:07Speaker 02

  Wait, do you remember when the people made fun of me when I said marijuana?

• 43:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, you cop.

• 43:13Speaker 00

  So if, if you think about this.

• 43:15Speaker 02

  Not a cop, guys.

• 43:16Speaker 00

  I do think that there's this like very interesting paradox of psychedelics obviously are very valuable for a certain subset of the population, but they may be incredibly dangerous for another subset of the population. And do we actually know enough to be able to determine the difference? I don't think so.

• 43:32Speaker 02

  And I think with people with severe depression, like things that are so severe that it requires an intervention, sure, but I think the ayahuasca trip became kind of like a, ooh, what are you doing? I'm going on a, you know, it's like.

• 43:45Speaker 00

  Look, some people come back and though I could change my life and it was this amazing positive thing. It's like, it's like anything, right? Like some people are like, hey, I drink once a week and it helps me relax, whatever. And some people are like, I'm an alcoholic, right? So like you, you, you can get multiple outcomes from this stuff, but I just think that if it's a big if.

• 44:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:02Speaker 00

  If that played a part, which is right now, what one of the narratives is, if it played a big part in somehow, you know, kind of changing the course of this kid's life that led to this thing.

• 44:12Speaker 02

  Huge change in life.

• 44:14Speaker 00

  I think that there's going to be a conversation about those specific medicines drugs that is currently not happening. Now, with that said.

• 44:23Speaker 02

  Just one thing before you move on. What do you think about like the Tim Ferriss's and Joe Rogan's who are pretty big advocates for this kind of stuff?

• 44:32Speaker 00

  Because I think that, again, it goes back to, I have friends, I have very good friends.

• 44:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:38Speaker 00

  Who are like, hey, look, I've gone and done this and it had this massive positive impact. And so I think that people have been very hopeful that these drugs and these medicines could have this like great impact, but it doesn't come without risk. And so I think that I'm not predicting that, hey, we're going to go to a society that like bans this. I actually think that's a risk.

• 44:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:59Speaker 00

  In the sense of if people all of a sudden are like, oh, the one out of a million, you know, bad situation, we got to throw it all out, right? That, that would be overreaction. But I do think that there's now going to be a conversation about, hey, listen, there's positives and negatives. There can be these one in whatever the odds are situations. And so, you know, there's this like cohort of people. And again, we're finding out a bunch of information, but I think a lot about if I was born 10 years later.

• 45:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:33Speaker 00

  Would I be one of these guys who's running around?

• 45:39Speaker 00

  Doing psychedelics, remote working, air quotes, and those are actually working.

• 45:44Speaker 02

  Going on retreats.

• 45:45Speaker 00

  In Bali, Hawaii, what's the place in Mexico?

• 45:49Speaker 02

  Oha- Oaxaca?

• 45:50Speaker 00

  Oaxaca, like, whatever, right?

• 45:52Speaker 02

  Anthony.

• 45:53Speaker 00

  I don't know how to pronounce that word.

• 45:54Speaker 02

  I don't know if I.

• 45:55Speaker 00

  But like, there's this cohort of people who are like, doing all that stuff. I've seen it. I know some of these people. Some of them are great people.

• 46:02Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 46:03Speaker 00

  Some of them are psychopaths.

• 46:04Speaker 02

  Some of them have jumped off the deep end. We know a few.

• 46:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, and so it's like, again, you go back to, you're like, okay, there is some percentage of people who do certain things, doesn't affect them. There's some percentage of people who don't. The guy that I had breakfast with this morning, he grew up in New York City. What was it like? He said, well, it's a very bifurcated outcome. Out of all my friends, they're either hyper successful or they went to rehab. Right? Same city, just very, very different outcomes. And so I think the same thing about kind of this digital nomad, you know, kind of psychedelics, like all this stuff. And again, it's a generalization because not everyone who does the digital nomad thing is doing the psychedelic, whatever.

• 46:48Speaker 00

  But like, what I have seen so far is that there's a very bifurcated outcome. Either people are like, I've never been happier in my life, and this is amazing. And that's the story that gets told on Instagram, et cetera. Or people go crazy.

• 47:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:04Speaker 00

  And that bifurcated outcome is not the story that's being told.

• 47:06Speaker 02

  My thing is that it usually kind of consumes your whole life. Once people go down that path, that's the only thing they talk about. And it's not like, oh, I'm a serious, you know, person with a startup and I do that on the side. It's like, that becomes the story with a side of, and I work sometimes.

• 47:23Speaker 00

  Well, it's kind of like, how do you know someone does CrossFit?

• 47:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:26Speaker 00

  They'll tell you.

• 47:26Speaker 02

  Or veganism or whatever.

• 47:28Speaker 00

  Someone's into Bitcoin, they'll tell you. How do you know someone's a vegan? They'll tell you. How do you know someone's a digital nomad? They'll tell you.

• 47:35Speaker 02

  Let's talk briefly about the sentiment, the vibe, if you will, online around this killing.

• 47:42Speaker 00

  It's disgusting.

• 47:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:44Speaker 00

  Right? It's, um.

• 47:47Speaker 00

  There is no critical thinking left in a conversation like this.

• 47:53Speaker 00

  I think that there are a number of people that I've seen who have said just absolutely vile, disgusting things where they've basically celebrating the death of the CEO. And what I try to remind people is like, this guy's a father of two kids, if I understand correctly.

• 48:08Speaker 02

  Two boys.

• 48:09Speaker 00

  Like, you know, he's running a business. That business, they get some things right, they get some things wrong. And people will always focus on the loud minority, right? Who is upset, but if I, and I want to be careful, I don't get the data wrong. So I think that the number of claims that are denied is something like 30%.

• 48:34Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 48:35Speaker 00

  Which, if that number is true.

• 48:37Speaker 02

  United Healthcare, you mean?

• 48:38Speaker 00

  Means that majority of them are approved, right? And so you look at these businesses, you're like, they provide tons of healthcare services and insurance to millions of Americans. But if you don't do it for 100% of people, there will always be someone who is upset, disagrees, whatever.

• 48:54Speaker 02

  Let's just, let's just say it how it is. Just because you're upset that an industry is broken or bad or whatever, does not give you the right to take somebody's life.

• 49:05Speaker 00

  Of course.

• 49:05Speaker 02

  In cold blood.

• 49:07Speaker 00

  Well, of course, and if you celebrate it, then you're only perpetuating a conversation. Then again, it's just vile and disgusting.

• 49:16Speaker 02

  There are people with influence and power and followers who go on national television and say, I, like many Americans, felt joy watching that video. Like, how stupid do you have to be to say something like that?

• 49:30Speaker 00

  Well.

• 49:31Speaker 02

  Lacking brain cells.

• 49:33Speaker 00

  Certain people are dumb, but I think that.

• 49:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, I just.

• 49:37Speaker 00

  I think there's another part of this story, which is.

• 49:42Speaker 00

  If you want change, if you want some sort of, you know, improvement, compete. Imagine the story of a Penn graduate who's a valedictorian of his high school, who got a master's in computer science and who took the time and energy to go and build the next great insurance company that took down the big, bad, evil corporations.

• 50:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:14Speaker 00

  Do you think that would have better impact?

• 50:17Speaker 02

  A hundred percent.

• 50:18Speaker 00

  And so what I fear is that

• 50:22Speaker 00

  there is disdain, there is this upsetness, disagreement, whatever, with something. And if we become a society where we basically throw our hands up and say, we can't do better,

• 50:38Speaker 00

  then you resort to this. But America was built in a way where compete, use capitalism, use economic incentives. Go build a better insurance company and you will put them out of business.

• 50:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:54Speaker 00

  And you will provide health insurance for tens of millions of Americans. So it's, it's like, it's very short sighted to pursue violence. If what you really aspire to is to affect change. And it's not going to be easy. It's not going to be overnight. But that story is not only one much more heroic, but it is also much more impactful. And so it kind of goes back to this game of like, again,

• 51:27Speaker 00

  if people are upset or whatever, okay. But it is the output, the, the action taken is wrong. And so if people can't see that,

• 51:40Speaker 00

  it's kind of crazy.

• 51:41Speaker 02

  I think, I think they just, the memes on the internet are more important than somebody's life to some people.

• 51:49Speaker 00

  Well, we're going to figure out what, uh, if he actually did it or not.

• 51:54Speaker 02

  Well, also why second degree? I need to look into this.

• 51:58Speaker 00

  You a legal scholar?

• 51:59Speaker 02

  It was clearly premeditated.

• 52:04Speaker 02

  Guys, I know more about Luigi than I know about myself at this point, so I'm just reading. All right, that's all we got today.

• 52:11Speaker 00

  All right, guys. See you next time.