#1342 Trevor Bacon | Crypto Will Let You Day Trade Real Estate?!

Trevor Bacon is the Co-Founder & CEO of Parcl, a decentralized real estate trading platform. In this conversation, we talk about where they are getting real estate data from, how they want to help you trade on real estate prices, the impact of real time real estate data, and more. ======================= Introducing Espresso - the world’s most interactive portable display. They have a portable screen that is incredibly light, comes with a nice stand, and the user interface is very easy. Anyone who listens to this podcast can go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠us.espres.so/pomp⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. They have a brand new offer waiting for you. ======================= BetOnline.ag is a proud sponsor of the the Pomp Podcast. Use crypto to bet on sports, play poker and enjoy casino games at BetOnline. Visit https://promotions.betonline.ag/pomp and use promo code POMP100 to receive a 100% matching bonus on any crypto deposit. BetOnline boasts no crypto transaction fees, and processing is anonymous, instantaneous and secure. ======================= Pomp writes a daily letter to over 265,000+ investors about business, technology, and finance. He breaks down complex topics into easy-to-understand language while sharing opinions on various aspects of each industry. You can subscribe at https://pomp.substack.com/ ======================= View 10k+ open startup jobs: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://dreamstartupjob.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Enroll in my Crypto Academy: https://www.thecryptoacademy.io/

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Anthony Pompliano?

  What's up everyone? This is Anthony Pompliano. Many of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, which is my effort to find the most interesting people in the world and sit with them for hours while I ask questions in an effort to learn. So it would mean the world to me if you would subscribe to the show on your favorite audio platform, watch episodes on YouTube, and tell your friends and family about the podcast. My goal is to help millions learn from the world's most interesting people. So let's get into today's episode. Today's episode is with Trevor Bacon. He is the co-founder and CEO of Parcel. In this conversation, we talk about where they're getting all this real estate data from, how they want to help you trade on real estate prices without actually having

• 0:45Anthony Pompliano?

  to buy or sell real estate, and what the world will look like as real-time real estate data comes to the market, trading becomes more popular, and something like Parcel ends up becoming more successful. It's a fascinating conversation that lives the intersection of technology, real estate, financial markets, investing, and the macro environment. All those things are things I'm interested in, and many of you are as well. So I cannot wait to hear what you all think with this conversation with Trevor Bacon.

• 1:14Speaker 01

  Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

• 1:38Anthony Pompliano?

  Today's episode is brought to you by Espresso, the maker of the world's thinnest portable display. Now, listen up. If you're like me, you feel like you are at a command center when you sit down at your desk. I got a gazillion tabs open and different windows for different activities. There's my web browser, my text messages, I have Slack open, and I got a Notes app. I normally work on a desktop and can be very, very productive. But everything falls apart the second I leave my desk. If I'm traveling, if I go to a coffee shop to do some work, or just want to work from the kitchen table, my laptop doesn't have enough screen space. I lose my Command center and my productivity falls off a cliff. It's a major problem, but this is where espresso comes in. They have a portable screen that is so beautiful that you think Steve Jobs came back from the dead to create it.

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• 3:02Anthony Pompliano?

  Trust me, I use mine every day. You'll love the espresso screen and I think it'll make you more productive. Go check them out today by clicking on the link in the description. This episode is brought to you by BetOnline. Do you like making a profit from sports betting? Well, set yourself up to take home the most profit possible using crypto to fund your sports betting. Casino and poker account at betonline.ag. You can avoid costly transaction fees, get your payouts lightning fast, and do it all securely and anonymously with the highest deposit and withdrawal limits in the industry. If you want to get in on the action, do it the smart way with crypto at betonline.ag. Head to the website, sign up with promo code POMP100 to get 100% bonus on your crypto deposit today.

• 3:46Anthony Pompliano?

  If you go and you deposit, they'll give you 100% bonus if you use promo code POMP100. BetOnline, the game starts here. BetOnline.ag. Go check them out today. All right, guys. Bang, bang. I've got Trevor here with me. Trevor, the data sucks coming out of all of these real estate and government organizations. It seems like they are one, delayed, two, inaccurate at best, and three, being used to make really, really important decisions. So when you look at all of the data environment when it comes to real estate, like, why is it so bad? Is it just that entrepreneurs haven't yet attacked this space or what's going on?

• 4:25Speaker 02

  I think, well, first off, thanks for having me. I think the main reason, there hasn't been a reason to have real time, accurate data for real estate. Obviously, transaction times in real estate can take months, decisions are lengthy, and Parcel Labs was initially created to be the underpinning of a trading platform that allows people to get exposure to real estate price movements in cities and neighborhoods in the US and across the world. So that requires data that is trusted, accurate, and real time, and that is what Parcel Labs is built to do.

• 5:06Speaker 02

  So we'll continue to build on that trust and provide more transparency into the real estate data space.

• 5:15Anthony Pompliano?

  So talk about this trading idea. You're basically saying that people can trade on prices, but not actually have to take possession or ownership of the actual assets themselves?

• 5:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, so my prior life, I was a portfolio manager at a couple hedge funds, trading in technology stocks. During COVID, there was a ton of real estate volatility, and the idea came to me and one of our co-founders, Kellen, was, you know, I wish I could get long Miami and short New York without actually having to buy and move and relocate. And so that's where the idea of Parcel came to be. Effectively, Parcel, the application, is a blockchain application, decentralized

• 6:02Speaker 02

  application, where you can get exposure to real estate and basically bet long and short using the Parcel Labs price fees as a reference price. So if Miami is $560 a square foot, based on Parcel Labs data, that price goes onto the blockchain, and you, if you pump or bullish on Miami or bearish, you could express a view. That's effectively what it is. The reason why it's really attractive, it's, there really are, so really... It's not surprisingly the largest asset class in the world. There are no truly liquid derivatives to hedge exposure, gain exposure.

• 6:43Speaker 02

  Whereas effectively, every other asset class has a way, corn, orange juice, oil. Like every asset class has some form of derivative. It's just, it's strange how the largest asset class is not. And that's what the problem that we're attacking.

• 7:00Anthony Pompliano?

  And is the argument the derivatives and the financial instruments don't exist because the data is not available to make them? So it's almost like you're getting to the root cause by trying to go get the real time data?

• 7:10Speaker 02

  I think that's one of them. You know, the, the, the current standard, and there actually is a contract on the, on the CME, which is based on the Case Schiller. So the Case Schiller is widely cited as kind of like the gold standard for house price indexes. That updates once a month, but on a two month lag. So obviously a lot happens in that timeframe. You know, in, in, in both economic and crypto, you know, that, that's like 10 years. So a lot happens. It's so at the time of update, it's almost irrelevant. So I think that is, is one of the, the, the best cases for why it hasn't taken off.

• 7:52Speaker 02

  Additionally, we leverage something called perpetual futures on the, on the trading platform, which is something that is enabled by blockchain and is an elegant way to implement something like this versus a standard dated future.

• 8:09Anthony Pompliano?

  When we see these housing data providers and people who are kind of publishing this stuff, it seems like we're just ignoring what's actually available. You know, I always joke that the government tells us one data point, but then I can go on and look at a Zillow or a Redfin or any of these platforms. And they have, I don't know, 100 million data points that are changing every single day by the minute, you know, being updated. How do you think about like what data sources you guys go and, and look for? How do you evaluate whether they're accurate? What is real time to you guys? Like just talk a little bit as to like, where are you getting the data from? And how do you actually decide, yeah, this should be included and this shouldn't be?

• 8:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, it comes from hundreds of different sources. I think, you know, from a, from a, the government records are important to us. So we do use those, except those are lagged. So, you know, if a house is sold, it could take up to six months to actually have that recorded at the county level. We use that more as a reconciliation layer. And then you can collect realtime listings across the web. And so the one difference, I guess, to your point on like cleanliness is

• 9:27Speaker 02

  like, we have every property in the country and in parts of Europe right now indexed at a parcel ID level such that they're not reduplicated because the, when people are inputting, there's just a lot of different definitions. So four bedroom or studio, studio B, apartment B, like things are double counted all the time. So part of the data cleaning process that parcel labs undergoes is to make sure that there's address resolution across a single unit. So there's no double counting. So, you know, in short, that's basically how we make sure that the data is right.

• 10:03Anthony Pompliano?

  And what is your vision for like what people are trading? Is it just pure speculation? Like, I want to go long New York, short Miami, or vice versa? Or is it actually like a hedging component where people within a city may use these instruments, you know, to kind of protect themselves?

• 10:18Speaker 02

  Yeah. I, look, like, I think the beauty is in the eye of the beholder, right? Like, the part of our thesis is just like, do you think that derivatives or exposure should exist on real estate? Right? And so far, there's been a lot of interest from a variety of players where there are some hurdles to actually entering the US, and we're kind of awaiting clarity, but we've received interest from institutions. So you see people with some exposure to real estate, people wanting to hedge their rents, you know, obviously.

• 10:56Speaker 02

  At the end, this kind of leads to institutions being able to hedge their exposure of on the ground real estate, much like they hedge every, you know, their stock portfolios or commodities, et cetera. So that's where it ends, I think, which is institutional exposure to real estate derivatives. And, you know, there's a ton of other things you could do with it. Like you could offer it as a product, a wealth manager can offer as a product to people. You can have rent, like over time will have rental price fees. So if you think your rents are going up, you can get long on rents on parcel. You know, there's a million ways you can slice and dice it once you actually have it. You could have insurance, right?

• 11:39Speaker 02

  Like you could insurance on on real estate as well. So, yeah, you know, we just recently crossed a billion dollars of of volume traded. So, you know, that's like the first milestone to getting into institutional, just in the eyes, the eyesight of institutions. And then we'll be, we have some partnerships coming up that will open those doors further.

• 12:03Anthony Pompliano?

  And recently, there's been a lot of, I think, attention on prediction markets and, you know, a number of these things that almost feel like they're tangential to what you guys are doing, but they're in either different sectors or they may have kind of different ways to express certain opinions. How much of this do you think you can build out and it becomes, you know, really kind of true trading? And the reason I start thinking down that path is like, well, if you get this like free market and people are actually expressing their views in it, that is a data point. Like that can actually inform a lot of things. And so like, is there a world where local governments start looking at what's going on and saying like, why is everyone short our city? Right? Like maybe we should make changes or like, you know, how do you almost think of like the the data points

• 12:47Anthony Pompliano?

  and the output and the information that's generated from the trading that then could be used for a variety of things?

• 12:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, that's the, once you're big enough, you are the price, right? So the more liquidity that comes on, the more traders, the more mindshare and trust that we have, the more it can be part of the psyche in terms of both pricing of real estate, right? That's important. You could actually use it, a Realtor, someone could look at it to say, what's the sentiment now? Most people are short. Maybe we should lower our listing price, et cetera. It becomes part of the psyche, much like it should be included in inflation numbers, right? Like the real estate is like, or shelter is a large component of inflation, but it's hyper lagged. So, and then policy decisions are being used or made off of that lag data.

• 13:37Speaker 02

  So, um, once it's in the psyche, it can inform both, uh, like the actual physical real estate market as well as policy, both from maybe a federal government perspective, as well as state and local being like, you know, once enough people have vested interests, especially renters, because they don't own, you start to get a little more equity in the markets, right? Because you actually care. If you, if you're invested, even on Parcel in Chicago, you know, you're financially aligned, if you're expressing a long bet, uh, for that to go up. So you want good things to happen in Chicago. Um, there are perverse incentives on the way down, but you could really, um, understand from a social sentiment perspective, maybe on Twitter

• 14:20Speaker 02

  or something like what's trending and why. We get that sometimes now, you know, people will, I'm short Chicago for X, Y, and Z reason, and it starts to like, and then someone's like, oh, I'm short my whole city. You're short my whole city. Like, you know, it, there's really a great banter meme that they can go on with it. But, uh, I do think if, once you're big enough, um, you know, you could really own the narrative from a real estate perspective.

• 14:42Anthony Pompliano?

  One of the most interesting developments in real estate and kind of trading that intersection in recent years was in New York City, uh, the L that goes to Brooklyn was going to be shut down, and they were going to do improvements. And so, uh, where the L kind of entered Brooklyn and people could get off, uh, a lot of those, um, units and, and real estate was tanking in price because people were like, hey, for the next year and a half, two years, people aren't going to be able to use this line. And so there's this huge problem. As most things in New York, the plan did not go according to what was outlined. And so they end up saying, hey, we're not going to shut it down. And all of a sudden prices jacked back up very quickly. And I remember Matt Levine from Bloomberg writing a piece being like, wait a minute,

• 15:23Anthony Pompliano?

  there's a bunch of transactions that occurred right before that announcement. Are people quote unquote like insider trading on information? And his conclusion basically was like, look, it doesn't meet the criteria of like, you know, material, non-public information, blah, blah, whatever. But man, it is a tough thing. If you have this piece of information, you want to express a view, you gotta go like, get real estate deals done.

• 15:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. You need a lot of capital, right? It's like a ton of capital.

• 15:50Anthony Pompliano?

  And then which ones do you buy? Like, you know, escrows, getting the debt, like, you know, it's just very hard. And so it feels like what you guys are building, once you get all the regulatory approvals and all this kind of stuff, kind of fit into this need where people may actually be able to use information that they have just in their daily life or paying attention to the local government or whatever, and express views without all of that friction. And if you can get there, I gotta think that's a pretty liquid market and there's a lot of people who'd be interested in doing that.

• 16:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, totally. And then if you could, I agree. And then if you can start to get more micro, which is possible, it becomes a little more, you know, as, so we have New York City, for example, you can have, I think that deal that you're talking about was like the Upper East Side. So you could carve the Upper East Side out, right? And then that could be the instrument in which people are betting or hedging against. And it would actually start to indicate probably like the odds of the L getting, you know, completed or not in a backward way. So, yeah, you know, I think again, like, once you can, once it's more liquid, you

• 17:00Speaker 02

  can actually get a little more granular, such that you can get like more of the microeconomies even within, New York City is a little bit unique in this case, but there's, because each neighborhood is totally different. But you can start to bet on, like, you know, Hudson Yards would be a good example of, of hedging or, you know. So, yeah, I think once it's liquid enough, the possibilities really are endless.

• 17:29Anthony Pompliano?

  How do you think about risk? So there's like, I'll call it like tech stack risk, including getting the data, cleaning the data, you know, presenting it, et cetera. And then there is like risk with what people are doing with the data and insights that you have. It's like, how do you guys try to mitigate any of the risks that you've already identified?

• 17:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, risk is very, very important. You know, it's like, it's probably the most important thing to mitigate from, especially around security. So on both sides, Parcel Labs, again, is the real estate data arm of Parcel. Recently, so we effectively only make that data available to the blockchain in which we interact. And then we continuously undergo audits for security. So there's that, you know, from a internal policy perspective, no one on the team is allowed to, to, to use the data or trade on the platform.

• 18:29Speaker 02

  On the platform itself, they're just continuous audits. So if, if anyone's familiar with blockchain, you know, it's, it's our products are smart contract based products. So on the smart contract, you continually undergo audits. We've gone through two, we'll do another and just continue to, to undergo security audits. And then anything with code that is used in the product on the blockchain undergoes an audit. So that, that's one of the bigger risks, or if not the biggest for what we're doing is, is smart contract risk.

• 19:06Anthony Pompliano?

  Now, I know that you guys are working with Resi Club and Lance Lampard over there. He absolutely loves the fact that you guys have such nuanced data, which makes me think there's kind of this weird world where trading and media actually have a lot of the similarities in that they're trying to find data, they're trying to express views. There is a new hedge fund, I don't know if you saw this, but there's this new hedge fund that came out. It's a media company and it's a hedge fund. And what they are going to monetize media, since media companies are struggling so much to monetize, is the investigative reporters will go do investigations, they will write the articles, they will send it to the hedge fund, the hedge fund will put positions on, and then they will publish the articles.

• 19:48Anthony Pompliano?

  And so again, you can imagine there's a lot of debate and controversy over like,

• 19:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, that sounds whatever.

• 19:56Anthony Pompliano?

  So I won't ask you if you guys are gonna do that, but the data is really interesting. It's like, is there a world where actually, yeah, you have a trading platform, but like, you do have insights that probably would be pretty interesting from like a data and a content or a media and a content perspective. Have you guys thought about what to do there? Or is that part of a marketing strategy? Or how can you use this, you know, from like an insight base perspective?

• 20:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's a great question. We've had, our content actually is, is how we've reached many, many, many people.

• 20:34Speaker 02

  And the team puts out content that basically showcases the data. That is how, for example, Lance eventually, you know, we formed a partnership with Resi Club. I think for distribution like that, we'd rather like empower, like empower someone like Lance, who is probably the best real estate journalist and media person that we've come across. So we kind of empower him to, he has an audience that's, we know is interested in real estate. He, we can distribute through someone like Lance. There's other types of, not on the media side, but there's other partnerships like that where you're distributing the data and kind of showcasing what you can do.

• 21:21Speaker 02

  I do think there's a, an opportunity to align the real estate data with trading more. But you know, just like, we probably wouldn't have recommendations, given that I'd say like, we need to remain neutral. But you could see, you know, just like Wall Street, banks all have equity research. Why do they have equity research? Both for banking, like new IPOs and M and A, but also to drive trading volume. They upgrade downgrade stocks every day and then eventually, you know, call their clients.

• 21:57Speaker 02

  Clients with those calls and then hopefully draw up some some business. So I could see like maybe not us, but but you know, as we continue to grow businesses being built on Parcel. Basically, you can have people creating research reports for various cities and trade ideas, try and monetize that, or get people to invest with them in some sort of fund capacity where we're just providing the data and the platform and an ecosystem and economies being built off of that.

• 22:29Anthony Pompliano?

  And when you start to see that billion dollars of volume has already been traded, like you've got kind of information insights, you know, media, etc. You obviously are trying to build off the trading side, like who are these people? And what other data are they using to to trade with?

• 22:47Speaker 02

  The the the amount, so over 300,000 people, so it's it's pretty vast. You have you know, people that are just trying out the product for the first time, or using you know, the the way in which they're using data is, you know, it's kind of a black box to us, given that, you know, we don't track that per se. But we have done some pretty detailed user interviews with like the the largest traders and you know, their use cases vary. It could be that they actually own properties and are hedging and and and, you know, if they own properties, they also know that area better. So

• 23:29Speaker 02

  you could you could see someone, you know, accumulate more trading volume. So, you know, that's it. It's very broad. I don't have a great answer for that. You know, the goal is for the trading platform and the the Parcel Labs API over time to become more integrated, such that there's more free, the free flowing data communication between the two to allow traders to make more informed decisions.

• 23:59Anthony Pompliano?

  And then what about like the real estate agent community? Are they tapped in yet? Do they realize like this could potentially be pretty valuable for them and something that they can use? Or is that still an area where you guys got some work to do to to kind of convince them?

• 24:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know, it's some work to do. I would say that they, the real estate industry as a whole is a little more slow, slow moving and, you know, convincing of new data sets or, you know, new offerings takes time. So that's why it's right now, it's about the, the, the first step is, is proving that our data is the most accurate, real time, transparent. We also are unbiased, right? Like, I think a lot of other data producers have some, some sort of,

• 24:52Speaker 02

  some sort of, like, they, they, they want the market to go up, right? Or they want transactions to happen. If it goes down, transactions slow, they don't get paid. So we're completely unbiased, which I think over time engenders trust. So, yeah.

• 25:11Anthony Pompliano?

  It's funny because as I've learned more and more about the real estate world, definitely there are some people who I've literally been in meetings and people have been like, we do not talk about market slowdowns.

• 25:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, if, if, if you're getting paid on transactions, right? Like, I've never seen a Z, like a Zillow's estimate that's like down 10%. Like, they're always, not like, nothing against them, but like, it's like down 1% at worst, because if you said over the next year, the prediction's down 10%, I'll wait a whole year when it's cheaper and then nothing would happen in that market for a year, right? Everyone would just wait. It's like, so, um, yeah, that, it's fed off of, it's, it's a flywheel. It's a pretty resilient. I will, I will say that. It's been really resilient.

• 25:56Anthony Pompliano?

  Well, what, um, on the regulatory front, like, what are the things that you guys need to do in order to kind of get to the world that you want inside the United States? Obviously internationally, you guys are making a lot of progress, but in the US, like, is there certain organizations that just got to give you a thumbs up? Or how does that work?

• 26:12Speaker 02

  So on the blockchain side, there's just not a lot of clarity. You know, there's some bills that have been hung up in Congress. It seems like they're still not making progress.

• 26:29Speaker 02

  But basically, you need some sort of framework. So what we are considered, or the parcel protocol is considered DeFi or decentralized finance. The way that we're thinking, you know, the ETF on Bitcoin got passed. That makes sense, right? It's half of the whole market. So, you know, a trillion dollars or more is Bitcoin. So that's like the first chunk that they took out, the biggest market. The next one seems like stable coins. That's all that's should be barely. I don't know if the probability that gets done. I think it's like in the middle. It is, it should get done, but that's straightforward. It's dollars, you know? So that's not so crazy. DeFi is more complex. There's decentralization elements.

• 27:10Speaker 02

  There's teams and that have, you know, ownership, but also are decentralizing in a progressive fashion. So there's a lot of complexity. So it makes sense that it's the last. But as of right now, there's no rule set to really comply with. We'd love to comply, obviously, whatever that means. If it means bringing down leverage or having KYC or whatever in the US, we'd be happy to. But right now, it's just not even at the point where you can have the discussion. So whenever that discussion is open, we'd love to have it and offer a product that's suitable to US users.

• 27:50Anthony Pompliano?

  And then you mentioned leverage. What are people doing internationally?

• 27:56Speaker 02

  The international is up to 10x leverage. So 10% down at home, in other words, you know? But, you know, we can raise that higher. I think in the US it'll. To be under a regulation will be lower.

• 28:11Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, I mean, I think that makes sense, right? It's like people expect the United States to be quote unquote more regulated, both in terms of what they allow from a limitation standpoint, but also just the that you're going to have to go through to to get approvals.

• 28:25Speaker 02

  Also, just on that note, like the the US consumer is is less, they're like risk seeking kind of, but they wouldn't want like 100x leverage, I don't think. It's a very small subset. They want like trusted and safe. So.

• 28:42Anthony Pompliano?

  It's funny, when I do a search on Twitter or X for parcel, there, I mean, there's incredible excitement. And I obviously can't tell like who's in the US, who's not, because most of the people don't have like their locations or whatever. But it is fascinating to see something as quote unquote boring as like real estate data.

• 29:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:02Anthony Pompliano?

  Meeting the like, like literally, I was looking at one of the tweets and he's like, me and my boys waiting for the parcel drop.

• 29:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 29:10Anthony Pompliano?

  Like those two worlds colliding in this like very unique way.

• 29:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's fun, you know, you know, the blockchain community, yeah, we do kind of have both of those elements like data, you know, modernizing real estate data and then the web three community is is fascinating. And they're great. Like, you know, it keeps us on our toes every day. They're fun, funny and demanding because you're always building in public, right? So we have 50,000 plus in the discord always asking questions, which is great. And we love them. But it keeps us on our toes and, you know, crypto is 24/7. So, you know, we're it's it forced you to grow and adapt quickly.

• 29:58Anthony Pompliano?

  My last question for you is the parcel intern.

• 30:01Speaker 02

  Oh, shout out.

• 30:04Anthony Pompliano?

  Is that you guys or is that somebody else?

• 30:06Speaker 02

  No, it is actually, we won't say his name, but so I spoke at the. Everyone thinks it's us, but we're not, you know, we're all right, but he's really good. So I spoke at a university's blockchain club. He reached out and then for me to speak there and then he would just hound me. He's like, I want to interview you, I want to interview you. I like wouldn't get back and, you know, he just made it happen and he became the intern. And then he basically interned the summer and then he went back to school and just decided to create the intern account.

• 30:45Speaker 02

  And then he does this, that's actually him and he like checks in on, on, you know, what to say and what not to say, but he's very like, he's a self-starter. So we'll have the drafts ready and we just have to approve.

• 30:59Anthony Pompliano?

  He's tweeting multiple times a day, like he's in it.

• 31:03Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Luckily, he's abroad, so right now he's studying abroad. So, you know, you wake up and he'll have all, everything set for the day and he'll be responding, but you know, great, great, highest ROI investment I think we've had, one of.

• 31:20Anthony Pompliano?

  Amazing. All right. Where can we send people to find you on the internet or if they want to find out more about what Parcel's doing?

• 31:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, so Parcel, P A R C L is the Twitter handle. Parcel.co is the, the, kind of like the brochure site or the main website. The application is app.parcel.co. For Parcel Labs, it's parcellabs.com.

• 31:48Speaker 02

  Parcel Labs Twitter is Parcel Labs. And then myself, it's Trevor J Bacon on Twitter.

• 31:55Anthony Pompliano?

  Awesome. I'm super excited with what you guys are doing. The data alone is fascinating, but then you add in kind of all the trading and everything. I think there's a lot of opportunity here, so I appreciate you doing this and we'll do it again in the future.

• 32:06Speaker 02

  Thank you so much for having me.