#1336 Dan Tapiero | Bitcoin Is The Greatest Macro Bet of All-Time

Dan Tapiero is the CEO & CIO at 1RoundTable Partners and 10T Holdings. This conversation was recorded at Bitcoin Investor Day in New York. In this conversation, we talk about bitcoin, digital assets, tokenization, billionaires private discussions, bitcoin vs gold, and where Dan is allocating capital himself. ======================= Get the freshest price feeds free for 12 months. Join Supra’s early integration program for zero-cost access to the fastest oracles and dVRF across 50+ blockchains: ⁠https://supra.com/pomp⁠. Earn $1,500 by referring Web3 projects to use Supra services. The projects get the fastest services for free, and you earn $1,500 for every referral. Learn more at the link above. ======================= In this podcast, we dive into the revolutionary concept of PropyKeys, an application that allows anyone to mint home addresses all over the world on blockchain. PropyKeys.com is a part of the Propy ecosystem, that has a grand mission to make homeownership more affordable and user friendly. We will explore the journey of Propy’s founder and how this innovative technology provides benefits for homeowners, and for the real estate industry. Join us as we discuss the Propy’s latest collaborations, including Coinbase, and its new fun project PropyKeys. X (Twitter): @PropyKeys Website: Mint an address at propykeys.com. dApp: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://dapp.propy.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠ ======================= Pomp writes a daily letter to over 265,000+ investors about business, technology, and finance. He breaks down complex topics into easy-to-understand language while sharing opinions on various aspects of each industry. You can subscribe at https://pomp.substack.com/ ======================= View 10k+ open startup jobs: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://dreamstartupjob.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Enroll in my Crypto Academy: https://www.thecryptoacademy.io/

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Anthony Pompliano?

  What's up everyone? This is Anthony Pompliano. Many of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, which is my effort to find the most interesting people in the world and sit with them for hours while I ask questions in an effort to learn. So it would mean the world to me if you would subscribe to the show on your favorite audio platform, watch episodes on YouTube, and tell your friends and family about the podcast. My goal is to help millions learn from the world's most interesting people. So let's get into today's episode. Today's conversation is with Dan Tapiero. Dan is the CEO and CIO at One Roundtable Partners and 10T Holdings. Dan has been around in the macro world for a very long time, and this conversation, which was recorded at Bitcoin Investor Day, is highly illuminating

• 0:46Anthony Pompliano?

  about what some of the greatest minds in finance are thinking about Bitcoin, cryptocurrencies, and the macro backdrop. We get into everything around Bitcoin, around digital assets, tokenization, what the big, big group of billionaires that you see on TV are constantly talking about in private, and where Dan is actually allocating capital himself. I always enjoy talking to Dan. He's got a very unique insight on the world, and I personally have learned a ton from him over time. And I think that this conversation will be highly illuminating to all of you as well. Here is my conversation with Dan Tapiero.

• 1:20Speaker 01

  Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

• 1:44Anthony Pompliano?

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• 2:24Anthony Pompliano?

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• 2:45Anthony Pompliano?

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• 3:30Anthony Pompliano?

  Our next speaker is Dan Tapiero. Dan is a very well-known investor. He has been in Bitcoin for quite a long time now.

• 3:44Anthony Pompliano?

  And when I first met Dan, somebody had originally introduced me to him as, Dan has a bunch of billionaire friends. They all run in this billionaire circle and they're getting excited about Bitcoin. That was probably 2020, I think. And I remember clear as day, I said, okay, that sounds great, but I've seen Dan tweeting about inflation, monetary policy and the strength of the dollar. And I think I begged you to get on a phone call and I said, explain this to me like I'm five. And you did. You did a fantastic job. So maybe walk us through like, how do you think about Bitcoin with the macro backdrop? And how much of what you were evaluating in 2020 and kind of getting excited about

• 4:28Anthony Pompliano?

  still remains true today, even though the macro backdrop has changed? We're at high interest rates and Bitcoin's at an all time high.

• 4:36Speaker 02

  Well, first of all, I want to say happy to be here. I love this turnout. You know, I don't understand why there aren't more events in New York City. I mean, it's crazy to think there are 30 million people in and around New York, and I don't know, what are there, five or six events, etc. So it was a great idea, I think, to start this. You know, billionaire friends, now, I worked for a bunch of billionaire guys, right? I think that's what it is. Some are friends, but no, I think that was the initial introduction. And then, I do remember that call, by the way, when you asked me, like, this macro stuff.

• 5:17Speaker 02

  I think Raoul Powell had said some things, and you said to me, "Well, what does that mean exactly?" And it was about the dollar, too, which can be very confusing.

• 5:27Anthony Pompliano?

  I also have a small brain, so I needed a big brain to explain it.

• 5:31Speaker 02

  You know, but it's not something, I say, you know, the dollar, the dollar, euro, it's not always straightforward what fundamentals are driving it. So I think with Bitcoin, it's actually more simple. It's less vague. But the macro case today, frankly, I think is probably better than when it was when we spoke in, I think it was 2019, 20. You know, just a lot of different ways we can take this. But to think that the short rate in the US is 5%, okay? And Bitcoin is now at an all-time high is not something that I think any of the macro

• 6:15Speaker 02

  people really anticipated. Most of the people in the macro world were thinking, "Okay, well, Bitcoin only goes up because rates are negative." Right? And this all was post-08. You know, Bitcoin was invented, and the idea was that real interest rates would be negative for a very long period of time. And so that was true. And it made sense that an asset of limited supply would go up in that environment. And of course, you were losing... You know, 2% to 3% annually, that was the negative rate, the negative interest rate for quite a while. So, over a 10-year period, you were going to lose 30%, 40%, 50% of your

• 7:00Speaker 02

  savings, in real terms. So, many of the macro people thinking about Bitcoin within that context, at least it could make sense, right? It's a, you know, you're hedging against the debasement of fiat, right? But, now, that the real rate is not 0, and that in fact, the short rate is 5%, I think it's really signaling to that macro group that maybe something else is going on. So, what's remarkable is that it's 15 years since the invention

• 7:38Speaker 02

  of Bitcoin, and some of these guys who are phenomenal investors, only thinking now that maybe something else is going on. It's not just a hedge against the debasement of fiat, right? Of course, and Bitcoin is many, many different things. So, when you say, "Is it better?", or "What is it compared to 2020?", I think, I just never, and I don't think anyone would have anticipated, that we'd be this strong, given where the rate is.

• 8:17Anthony Pompliano?

  So, how are some macro funds or macro traders thinking about Bitcoin in the sense of, "Okay, there is something else going on"? Is that unlocking them to start investing? The ones who were investors, are they putting more exposure on? What is kind of, once they get to a conclusion mentally and from a psychological standpoint, what are they actually doing?

• 8:38Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, maybe you recall or not, but I've left that world behind, thankfully. Not a lot of return, broadly speaking, in that world. And, the old macro world is actually quite boring. I, look, I think the people at those big funds who you know, the well-known guys, you know, they've done so well investing in the old framework.

• 9:04Speaker 02

  You know, you saw, of course, a few years ago, Paul Tudor Jones's comments. And every once in a while, he'll come out and say, you know, he owns a little bit of it. But I don't think any of them have really done sort of the super deep dives that would allow them to only focus on this. And, you know, the guys from my background, Mike Novo, who you had this morning, Dan Moorhead, I mean, I've known those guys 20 and 30 years. You know, they're a little younger than those older guys, and they made the transition completely because this really is the, and I say this a lot, this is the greatest macro

• 9:42Speaker 02

  bet of all time on Bitcoin, on the digitization of all assets, on the, you know, the fact that I think all value is eventually going to sit somewhere on some blockchain and live in this digital asset ecosystem. So, you know, I really don't think that the commitment to the space is there, certainly amongst the sort of older macro guys. But then also, you know, even the prominent long-short equity guys, you know, there's $3 trillion in that hedge fund business. And I mean, they're a handful of people.

• 10:26Speaker 02

  I think the ETF, as it becomes more liquid, so it's not really liquid for a proper fund for trading purposes, I think it'll become super liquid, just like the gold ETF, which was introduced in 2000. In the beginning, wasn't liquid, and then the actual, the options on the GLD became the place, super liquid, super liquid. I think that'll eventually happen within the next sort of maybe two, three, four years. And then when it becomes liquid, all of those guys will be trading actively and

• 11:00Speaker 02

  But to me, that's really less interesting. I think the way to really build wealth, if that's what you care about, is just to hodl, as you and I've talked a lot about. I know it's crazy to think you can just sit there and be long and not do anything, right? But I'm experiencing it, you've experienced it, hopefully everyone in the audience here has experienced it. It's kind of crazy, right? How is that possible, right? That you don't have to go out and sweat and, you know, work 18 hours a day and all of a sudden, you know, your wealth is building. And it's because you've taken a risk that other people, literally 99% of the people out there, are not willing to take because they're not willing to do the work.

• 11:45Speaker 02

  So I love this concept of proof-of-work algorithm, right? You did the work, you're sitting there. Some people just get lucky and have their gut feel and they buy something and they come back, you know, in five years and it's done well for them. But the reality is, is that you're getting compensated. This is from a financial markets, you know, portfolio management perspective. You're getting compensated for taking that risk. And so I think you continue to get compensated. I mean, Cathy's prediction or estimate of where it goes is nice, but she didn't give you a time period. And that's a little bit of a problem because macro takes its time to play out sometimes.

• 12:30Speaker 02

  And it doesn't, you know, I always say that, and this is many years being involved with gold, gold never does what you want it to do when you want it to do it. So it's a very, very frustrating thing unless you're just long. That was in the old world. And I think it's the same thing here, that at least in this cycle, I would say, you know, 200,000 to 300,000, I think is reasonable, and the next 12, 24 months, it might happen more quickly. But as she rightly said, the ETF is very important. We could talk about that more if you want in a sec. But I think longer term, sure, you can put any number you want on it, 20 years, you

• 13:15Speaker 02

  know, it could go anywhere. But I think there's too much also that can happen between now and 20 years from now. So. I would put a little more of a, you know, I'm not a short-term guy at all, but I think that that's sort of the first target.

• 13:34Anthony Pompliano?

  Let's talk about Bitcoin and gold. You are-

• 13:37Speaker 02

  We did that talk on that, that one time.

• 13:39Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, you, well, you are one of the people that I think has done a ton of work on gold, has a very strong understanding of that market, has been right for the most part when it comes to gold. But unlike my uncle, Peter Schiff, he's not really my uncle, but he's basically my uncle, who has stayed kind of stuck in that world, you've been able to say, no, it's not an either or, it can be an and type situation with Bitcoin. So how do you look at gold and Bitcoin, similarities, differences? And how do you think institutions, if you go to central banks all the way down to, you know, financial organizations, are going to look at these assets in their portfolio?

• 14:16Speaker 02

  These double questions you have to stop with. I'm terrible. You gotta ask one, and I'll do that, and I'll move on. I don't know why you'd ever mention Peter Schiff ever within any context.

• 14:29Anthony Pompliano?

  He's my uncle.

• 14:29Speaker 02

  And certainly not in an investing or proper one context, but I don't know, he's a sort of not really a relevant player.

• 14:39Anthony Pompliano?

  What about gold?

• 14:39Speaker 02

  Okay, so, look, I mean, clearly Bitcoin will continue to outperform gold. You know, I have a physical gold business, sales and storage business called GBI. I launched it in 08, we're today the third largest balter of gold in the world, outside the banking system, traded gold since the 90s, done a lot of work, and I've thought a lot about it. And, look, gold is a great hedge within the old world. So there's the fiat world, and so there's all the value and all the assets that exist in the fiat world, bonds, stocks, commodities, currencies. And if you're worried about that system and you're of that

• 15:24Speaker 02

  system, then gold is a great hedge for that. You know, it hedge against the de-basement of fiat. And, you know, there are a lot of great characteristics.

• 15:38Speaker 02

  But of course Bitcoin has all of that and then a lot more. And so I suspect, I mean, it'll be an easy for Bitcoin to outperform gold. You know, I have this sort of different view about this whole thing, which is that I think that the entire fiat world, so the, call it 500 to 700 trillion dollars of assets that exist, if you just add everything up, the real estate, you know, the art, the money, the money supply, add it all up, all of that is slowly, and in that case it's slowly, devaluing

• 16:19Speaker 02

  against everything in this new world. It's not just Bitcoin. If you look at the last 10 years, every single asset in the old world is down 99% against Bitcoin. Every one. S&P, NASDAQ, you know, of course Bitcoin was starting from a low number, but you know, it's the same thing for Ethereum in the last eight years. Every single asset, no matter what, bonds. And so, and it's even true with some of these crappier cryptocurrencies that you'd never invest a dollar in, or a Bitcoin in. And I think even they have gone up exponentially

• 17:00Speaker 02

  against all the assets in the old world. So for me, you know, it was easy to make a break because I saw my purchasing power getting destroyed. I'm sitting there in all the old world investments and, you know, okay, you have a 10% move or up 20 or 30%, but the, everything in this digital asset economy is crushing it. So why is that important? I think because...

• 17:32Speaker 02

  You know, there's this idea that the fiat world is over leveraged. There's too much debt. And I don't ever think that we're going to have a government default or a debt jubilee. None of that happens because it would be too cataclysmic. But what happens, what does happen is that that whole world, which is, which is over leveraged, and there are too many bonds, devalues slowly against the new world, where in a sense, there is a finite supply and it is, there's no leverage, zero leverage. No one will lend to anybody in the digital asset world. I own 24 companies in the space.

• 18:16Speaker 02

  No one is lending them any money. So I think it's a, if you think about things in those big broad terms, it does make sense to exit as much as you can of the old, I mean, you have to have real estate, you live in a house or whatever it is. But, um, but that's how I, I think about it. I think it's never been, uh, there's never been a stronger case.

• 18:38Anthony Pompliano?

  So as you are converting value from the old world into the new world, um, there's a lot of different investment opportunities. You can own companies, you can own, uh, existing liquid tokens, you can own soon to be liquid tokens that are not equity, but they're kind of more like early stage investing. There's growth, there's all these different components. How do you think about where you put capital and, uh, how many different areas do you want to be invested in?

• 19:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, it's an extremely complex world. And if you're just entering and you just say to me, I just want to own Bitcoin, I think that's just fine. And, you know, I just want to own ETF too. Even that is fine, even though I would prefer, I wouldn't do the ETF, but, but I'm just saying that's a, for new people who are just coming into the space, that's great. Um, but you know, as an investor, you can't do absolutely everything in one thing, I guess, unless you're Michael Saylor. I mean, Michael, you know, 100% just in Bitcoin and things. But so I, my, my view generally is that you should have. Bit of a portfolio, you have Bitcoin and Ethereum. I think those are the two core assets of the space.

• 19:49Speaker 02

  Bitcoin more core, but anyway, I know a lot of people disagree with that, but I think that network effect has been achieved and everything else is probably a venture project in my mind. Maybe Solana is transitioning, I don't know. But then, so you decide what percentage you want your portfolio to break down. Bitcoin ETH and then you have a little bit of a venture fund because there's crazy Wild West stuff going on in the space and you might want to have some exposure to that. And then a little bit in a growth fund and that's what I do. And as far as I know, we're still the only growth equity fund in the world that's exclusively focused on crypto, blockchain, Web 3, digital assets, whatever you want to call it.

• 20:34Speaker 02

  So that's how my portfolio is structured.

• 20:37Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. Why are you guys the only one?

• 20:39Speaker 02

  I don't know. It makes no sense to me. I would have thought by now, I mean, I had the idea for this in 2019 and I would have thought there would be 10 or 20 guys. In fact, what's happened is a few of them came in in crossover funds in 20, 21 and 22, you know, very famous guys, Tomo Bravo and Silver Lake, Tiger, Coto, all of these, Tomasic, all these big players. And unfortunately, you know, there are landmines all over the space and they stepped on a few and FTX, thankfully, we passed on them three times, but FTX hurt them and he hurt the reputation of the space for more traditional players and growth equity players.

• 21:23Speaker 02

  So they moved out, they've been moving out. And if you're in venture, I don't know who is going to fund, you know, the rounds two years from now, you know, you did a seed or an A round. I don't know where the money is going to come from. It's, our estimate is this 30 to 50 billion dollars of, of growth that is equity that is going to be needed in the next two to four years, the next, for the next stage of the, of the winners from the venture area, right? So I don't know why. I, I, I basically, you know, I, someone asks me that every day and I, I have no, I have no idea why, you know.

• 22:08Anthony Pompliano?

  What is the thought process in venture with what I'll call growth illiquid equity versus growth investing in these like liquid protocols that if they were not in crypto, they would be more like early-stage startups?

• 22:23Speaker 02

  Oh, I mean, there's like, it just shows you how early we are. I mean, there's zero interest or ability in the early-stage protocols. I mean, it just, it's so hard to understand for traditional people. I think it's more simple, you know, understand that Coinbase is a great business. Coinbase is essentially the only public company, large crypto, public company in the world. The question really is, you know, not only were the growth equity guys, but why aren't there more companies? You have some of the miners, of course, and you have, you know, Mike's firm, Galaxy, it's smaller. I suspect that over the next

• 23:08Speaker 02

  sort of three, two, three, five years, I'm not exactly sure, but in that, times that we're going to have many public companies that are, you know, from the space. I see sort of a merge, emerging of the equity in the token world. I don't see equity going away tomorrow. There's a established sort of system of value. And also, the laws are very clear and there's lots of legal precedent, especially with bankruptcy laws. In the crypto space, you know, there's no precedent and all sorts of stuff goes on that shouldn't

• 23:46Speaker 02

  go on. So I don't see equity going away. I just think they sort of emerge somewhere in the future. But very long term, I think you could make the case that there may not be equity, you know, 20 years or something, 15, 20 years, that everything may just

• 24:07Speaker 02

  Be tokenized.

• 24:08Anthony Pompliano?

  So the Bitcoin network to some degree is this, right? In the sense that there was no equity, it was just a token. You buy it, you don't necessarily own the network by owning it, but you have a piece of the network. How do you look at that asset? When some people say, look, it's a store of value. That's all we need it to be. It's kind of quote, quote, digital gold and that's good enough. Versus maybe the other end of the spectrum, which is, you know, it becomes the global reserve currency and is used as a medium of exchange and a unit of account. Like where in that spectrum is kind of your north star that Bitcoin ends up?

• 24:42Speaker 02

  That is really hard. You know, I, I always just think about what do I do with my Bitcoin, which is it's just in a vault. Right? Hardware wallet finished. Like I don't, not going to stake it. I'm not going to use it. I'm not going to spend it. So that may not be the way the future unfolds.

• 25:06Speaker 02

  I mean, the use case.

• 25:10Speaker 02

  But, you know, I, I think it's an incredible asset.

• 25:18Speaker 02

  I actually, I'm not really sure. Like, is it used for absolutely everything and by everybody? And that's it. You know, I don't know. Human beings, you know, like to have some variation and like, like to choose, even if the choices are wrong.

• 25:36Speaker 02

  You know, I always say, like, if you may think McDonald's has the best burger, but then, you know, you have Burger King and Wendy's and you have burgers. People make all different kinds of burgers. And we all agree that there's only one thing that is it.

• 25:53Speaker 02

  I don't know. Just looking at the human behavioral pattern, it just seems to me to be hard. So I don't know. I mean, I think, look theoretically, could it be everything? Yeah. I mean, it could be, but I think that's a hard bet to make, right? Like it's a hard, like you can be happy with the asset and it did not get all the way to, you know.

• 26:21Speaker 02

  All money to all people all the time.

• 26:25Anthony Pompliano?

  What about sovereign wealth funds, nation states, these large, large pools of capital? One of the things that's interesting to me is, you know, there's some countries in the world that are very, very large. If they were to go buy Bitcoin and take self custody of it, they would be expressing financial exposure, but they also would be introducing this geopolitical conversation. And I think the US and others would be like, what are you doing? But now with the ETFs, they may be able to express the financial exposure to price without having to introduce the geopolitical conversation because they actually don't own Bitcoin. They own shares in the ETF. So is that like kind of a green light for them to start to allocate?

• 27:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, we are light years away from that, I think. I mean, I know there's some talk about these are Qatar or Oman or one of these Middle Eastern countries. And if they bought something, it was probably de minimis. So I, I mean, everyone in the audience should be happy about this because it's very early and I think at some point they will all own Bitcoin. And that's, I don't want to say an infinite amount of money, but I mean, it is nearly infinite, right? Because many of them can print whatever they feel like. You know, some have repercussions on their local currency. The US doesn't really.

• 27:45Speaker 02

  So I, I, I don't think they're anywhere. I don't know what makes you, have you heard some big central banks buying? I mean, the people I speak to, I only know one central banker who I think is advanced in this area. And I don't even think that central bank will be able to buy for years.

• 28:11Anthony Pompliano?

  I think central banks are looking at it. They're researching all that. So it's kind of early on that side. But I do think that there's a number of countries that are much further along than people realize.

• 28:22Speaker 02

  A big ones or?

• 28:24Anthony Pompliano?

  Very big ones. Yeah. Now, a lot of them may just say, hey, the safe thing to do is like, let's build infrastructure. So let's do mining. Again,

• 28:33Anthony Pompliano?

  You know, I actually think we don't give other national leaders enough credit for them understanding the geopolitical complexity. And so if you are a country that sometimes is nice with the US, sometimes not, this is like kind of throwing like a Molotov cocktail into a room. Like, you probably don't want to do that.

• 28:51Speaker 02

  I mean, you know, funnily enough, in the last, I think, six to nine months, the central bank buying of gold, which I'm sure nobody in the room really looks at, but has exploded dramatically. And it's all part of the US having, I think, taken Russia's reserves. You know, they made a certain political decision, geopolitical decision, they just took the reserves. So other people, and, you know, the Arab countries, their currency is still completely pegged to the dollar. So they have no diversification at all within their assets.

• 29:23Anthony Pompliano?

  So there's a paper from a gentleman at the Harvard School of Economics, I believe. And basically, what he tried to look at was Bitcoin as a sanctions hedge. So being introduced into central banking, not for price or kind of economic reasons, but purely as a sanctions hedge. And his conclusion was, it would make sense.

• 29:42Speaker 02

  Did anyone read that paper? Or was it just you?

• 29:45Anthony Pompliano?

  I read it.

• 29:46Speaker 02

  I mean, it was just you. I haven't even heard of this paper.

• 29:49Anthony Pompliano?

  But here's the part that's interesting to me about it, right, is central banks and other large pools of capital, we all sit up here and talk about them as if they're just economic actors. But when you're acting on behalf of a pension fund, a nation state, etc., you actually may make decisions not for economic reasons, but for nationalist reasons.

• 30:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, that's the infinite bid scenario. I actually think, you know, if I were a central banker, I would definitely be buying. And I don't think, I don't think it's that far, like...

• 30:27Speaker 02

  I think they can understand it. I think it's very hard to get a buy-in. And you know, I see this when, you know, we have a few institutional investors. I've got the Texas Teachers Pension Funds invested $30 million with us and the Michigan Pension Fund, MERS. And you've got to understand, every time you have a, after a pension, not only do you go through a year of diligence, but you have to get through a committee. And the committee has seven people or 19 people. And as a central bank, the same thing. You can imagine everyone sitting around the table. All you need is one or two people to veto it, or a few people. So I think it's very hard to get the buy-in,

• 31:12Speaker 02

  even though by now, I mean, there's enough literature out there. I mean, the Harvard paper you mentioned, but there's a ton of literature out there that suggests it's a, it's a good idea, even just as, as a hedge. But it's very hard. It still is hard.

• 31:31Anthony Pompliano?

  The last question that I have is around custody itself. I think that obviously, big institutions, they need qualified custodians and all of that. But how do you see Bitcoin playing out more at the kind of, you know, middle market or retail level? Does Bitcoin fully become a self-custody?

• 31:49Speaker 02

  Everybody will just, at least in the US, will just buy the ETF. You have your, you know, call up your broker. You put your order in. I think that's the, we haven't talked about it, but the power of this thing is that you've onboarded, literally, you know, $100 trillion of value sitting in global equity accounts in one day. So, I mean, I don't know, that's like Coinbase adding 100 million, you know, monthly active users, or I don't know, maybe multiple hundred million. I don't know. So I think, for the, you know, certainly Americans, but you know, the...

• 32:32Speaker 02

  Higher echelon like wealth group who own equity or have other financial assets. It just, this is a huge, a huge deal. And I, I mean, I think self custody is important, but people don't necessarily get there day one. And the ETF I think is great because it's a, it really is an easy first step. Right? And then they make a little investment and then they start doing a little work and then they buy a ledger and then they're like, oh, well, you know, what are all these other things going on in this space? Like, why are all these people focused on this? Why is there three and a half trillion dollars of value sitting here?

• 33:17Speaker 02

  And that's when people start to get the light bulb moment, but it's not, it's not easy. So I wouldn't be too hard on the people who are not getting it. As you know, you have to be dedicated and you doing events like this, I think is fantastic because it gets the word out.

• 33:36Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. Everything I learned, I learned from Dan. I appreciate it, my friend.