#1199 Mike. On Making Millions As Independent Rapper

Mike. (formerly known as Mike Stud) is one of the most interesting music artists in the world. He has consistently pioneered different ways to make music, distribute music, and make money off of his music. Mike. continues to build out subscription services while building audiences with a very high degree of engagement. It all started as a baseball player at Duke University. Mike. continues to push the edge of everything from content and monetization. You can learn a lot from people who are pioneering other sectors of the economy. ======================= Pomp writes a daily letter to over 235,000+ investors about business, technology, and finance. He breaks down complex topics into easy-to-understand language while sharing opinions on various aspects of each industry. You can subscribe at https://pomp.substack.com/

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Anthony Pompliano?

  What's up everyone, this is Anthony Pompliano. Many of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, which is my effort to find the most interesting people in the world and sit with them for hours while I ask questions in an effort to learn. We have no advertisers on this podcast, so it would mean the world to me if you would subscribe to the show on your favorite audio platform, watch episodes on YouTube, and tell your friends and family about the podcast. My goal is to help millions learn from the world's most interesting people. So let's get into today's episode. Today's episode is with Mike. That's right, his name is Just Mike. He is one of the most interesting music artists in the world, in my opinion. He has consistently pioneered not only different ways to make music, but also how to distribute the music and how

• 0:47Anthony Pompliano?

  to make money off of the music. Mike continues to build out subscription services, continues to build an entire audience with a very high degree of engagement, and it all started about a decade ago when he was a baseball player at Duke University. Mike continues to push the edge of everything, content and monetization, and I tend to think that you can learn a lot from people who are pioneering in other sectors of the economy. Here is my conversation with Mike.

• 1:16Speaker 01

  The action's on the court, and as the official beer sponsor of the NBA, Michelob Ultra is getting fans closer to the game with a chance to win courtside seats, merch, and more. Visit michelobultra.com/courtside to enter. Michelob Ultra Courtside, 26 to 27. No purchase necessary. Open to U.S. residents 21+. Begins on October 1st, 2026, and ends on June 30th, 2027. Multiple entry periods. See official rules at michelobultra.com/courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes, and details.

• 1:44Anthony Pompliano?

  Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only. So when'd you graduate?

• 2:09Speaker 02

  2007 was the year, my freshman year. I had the all, that was like my breakout year.

• 2:16Anthony Pompliano?

  2007.

• 2:16Speaker 02

  So I graduated 2012, and then I did Georgetown grad for half the semester.

• 2:22Anthony Pompliano?

  So like the same time that you were in college, I was in college, basically?

• 2:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:25Anthony Pompliano?

  It was you, um, Asher Roth, right, was another one. And then there was, um, Mac Miller.

• 2:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:32Anthony Pompliano?

  And I was at school in Pennsylvania and Asher Roth and Mac Miller were just fucking running back and forth across the state, doing every frat house, whatever.

• 2:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:39Anthony Pompliano?

  And, uh, so I remember listening a little bit, whatever. And then when Strowman, uh, my brother and I, he started DMing us all the time about fucking like, yo, what, what coins to buy?

• 2:50Anthony Pompliano?

  There was like a six month stretch. He was like, literally every day was like, yo, bro, where, where up at the cash?

• 2:55Speaker 02

  That's my guy.

• 2:55Anthony Pompliano?

  And so then, and then he kept like tweeting at you or whatever. And then I was like, oh, wait a second. Oh, I like it. And I started listening. I was like, oh shit.

• 3:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:02Anthony Pompliano?

  He literally went all in. I was like, this is fucking awesome.

• 3:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, went all in. I mean, the guys you mentioned, shit, man, like, uh, especially Mac Miller, rest in peace. I remember, I remember just, just starting to dabble a little bit in my room, making, cause I, cause I was injured. Really what happened was, you know, I was.

• 3:22Anthony Pompliano?

  You recorded?

• 3:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, we're rolling. My full time, my, and since I was fucking eight years old, I was just, I had this very intuitive draw towards baseball. Knew it would be my meal ticket out of where I live, you know, just knew it would be.

• 3:38Anthony Pompliano?

  That was a thing.

• 3:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was. And I knew I had it. I had something. I was from Rhode Island, so it's not a baseball powerhouse by any means. So the whole time there was that like, you know, neighborhood, like I was really good in this area, but what does it mean? You know, and I, I worked very hard, very diligently. I had a great, super lucky with a great family, great father, helped shit, sorry. Helped cultivate, you know, my, my skills, whatever. I go on to play at Duke, um, which was, you know, already kind of feel like I was achieving my dream. And first year I just had, as I look back, um, almost like every single thing went my way that year. I was a All-American as a freshman closer.

• 4:20Speaker 02

  Just like, I remember throwing balls 2-0 right down the fucking middle and it just, they just roll over. It was just like, the whole year, yes, I was, I was, you know, excelling, but I just remember now that I have some hindsight, like, a lot of shit went my way. It was almost like the universe was giving me like, it's your last hurrah, you know what I mean? Cause it's like, really what happened, man? Like, I was on cloud nine, I go play in the Cape Cod League, this is, it's all coming to fruition. My elbow starts acting real, feeling very strange. I was a guy who was like, never hurt.

• 4:51Anthony Pompliano?

  Yup.

• 4:51Speaker 02

  I never came out of a game when I pitched in high school.

• 4:53Anthony Pompliano?

  Yup.

• 4:54Speaker 02

  Just always, my arm never hurt. I was, and then all of a sudden, it just changed, like, one day. Ended up having Tommy John, struggling with the recovery, never returned to full speed. And for whatever reason, I had another intuitive feeling about just dabbling with some music, you know?

• 5:10Anthony Pompliano?

  And so you had never made music?

• 5:11Speaker 02

  Never, never.

• 5:12Anthony Pompliano?

  That's crazy.

• 5:13Speaker 02

  Strange. And like, I don't know what the fuck it was, really. I mean, I, I, I guess I was the guy who could like freestyle while everyone was drunk on the baseball team and I, I could do it, you know? But nothing, nothing like, wow, you need to do this, you know, like?

• 5:26Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 5:27Speaker 02

  And I just, I just had some calling to it. I self-taught myself from GarageBand. I made a few songs. And for whatever reason, like, relative, relatively, the first one I put out went viral. My buddy came and shot it for free. He's like, yo, I like this. Like, I thought it was just gonna be my one and done music video. Like, I made one. This is, you know, I remember this, like, the whole time I'm thinking I'm gonna be a professional baseball player. This is just a bump in the road. I'm gonna be better. And it just, uh, it just totally went a different direction. I, I kinda got enthralled by it. I kinda had an aha moment when I was like, trying, really trying to recover and it wasn't happening. And I'm traveling, I'm going to the games and I'm like, you know, it sucks.

• 6:11Speaker 02

  Cause I kinda was the guy freshman year. And now I'm watching my peers kind of play and I'm sitting there and... The fans, I started having fans in the, in the crowd, like where they'd be like Mike Stud fans. Like, yo, I had like one song, two songs out. And my wheels started turning.

• 6:28Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, you're the musician, he actually plays baseball, that's his hobby.

• 6:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it's, they kind of supplement each other because I feel like that's the reason people cared about the music, really. Like, it was amateur and cool, but they're like, oh, he's a fucking baseball player, that's kind of cool. Like, you know, it's not bad, it's, you know, but I started, my wheels started turning a little bit. Not that I felt like it would be my career per se, but it just felt like it was the next step for me. It was almost like, pay attention to the signs. Like, you got fans here from University of Louisville while you're playing them, and they know you for, you know, one, one thing. I, I spent like one week doing it.

• 7:02Anthony Pompliano?

  What the, what the kids in the dugout or like the coaches, were they like, yo, what's going on here? Or did they think it was cool?

• 7:07Speaker 02

  They didn't even, the, the guys on the team just thought it was a laugh. Like, you know, once it started to work a little bit, and they, they were supportive to my face, you know? My good buddies were like, yeah, but no one, like, I'd be totally lying if I said that anyone really thought it would translate into, you know, the life that we've gone on to lead and just have how it became really what I am and what I do. And my, I feel as though it's my place right now, and I feel like I'm right where I should be, you know, but.

• 7:36Anthony Pompliano?

  So when you started recording, how much of it was like, I'm just going to record a certain way because that's all I can do? Like, I don't have access to a big studio, I don't have, you know, producer or whatever. It was just more of like, well, fuck it, like, if I'm going to do this in any serious way, I just got to do with what I have at the moment?

• 7:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I was like a, I, I, I think I got a Mac, like, my junior year in college. Like, I wasn't even one of those guys with the laps, like, I got it, there was GarageBand on there. And I just had free time, man, my roommates were baseball players, they were gone. Like, I wasn't traveling with the team. So, you know, I kind of always had a way with words, so I like just, I just had this inclination to do it, man. I can't really put a finger on what made me do it exactly. But at the same time, I feel as though in hindsight and how I'm living my life now is just like, that's what it is, man. Following your intuition.

• 8:27Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 8:27Speaker 02

  You got a feeling about something, go after it, you know?

• 8:30Anthony Pompliano?

  It's so funny because I think now, for those that don't know, the way you create the music is very different. The way that you've marketed the music is very different. And I think the way that you live your life and like the business behind it, we'll get into all this. It's just like you've approached it very differently. But if you even go back and you listen, the Jay-Z's of the world or the Dame Dash's, they'll say the same thing. They're like, yo, we wanted a record deal. We just couldn't get one, so then we had to do it ourselves if we wanted to chase this thing.

• 8:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:53Anthony Pompliano?

  How much of it for you was that in the beginning? And then when did it change? When were you like, no, actually, even if a record deal shows up, like, I don't want that.

• 9:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:01Anthony Pompliano?

  Right? I want to do it this other way. Cause like, I'm assuming that changes at some point.

• 9:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:05Anthony Pompliano?

  And you're like, no, this is my path. I'm gonna double down on it.

• 9:07Speaker 02

  Absolutely. Yeah. You hit the nail on the head, man. I think you do it. I did it. First off, I made these songs. If I had to go to a studio to make those songs, they would have never existed. I would have never did it, you know?

• 9:22Speaker 02

  And, you know, I make a few songs. It starts to work. I take a leap of faith. I start touring a little bit, you know? I definitely had a bit of beginner's luck, you know? Shit was kind of going my way, like, it was a very different landscape, you know? Like, there was, there was a handful of artists, like, you just put your finger on it, like, oh, Astro Roth, Matt. There was a few of them. Look at nowadays, there's literally hundreds of thousands of artists, people making music and sharing it. And this era was like this perfect time where...

• 9:52Anthony Pompliano?

  But it was also, it was like, there's only a couple of people who are doing it. But the people I just named, it almost felt like they were targeting the college market.

• 10:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, well...

• 10:00Anthony Pompliano?

  Right? It was like, kind of like the frat houses, the sororities.

• 10:03Speaker 02

  It was technically called coined frat rap. Like, it was like kids in college, college age, not like, um, it was just a totally different sphere for hip hop, where it didn't really exist, where it's like friendlier hip hop. What are college kids really experiencing? For the most part, it's a lot different than regular hip hop culture experiences.

• 10:24Anthony Pompliano?

  Yep.

• 10:25Speaker 02

  So it was just kind of speaking to a lot of kids who like hip hop, but maybe the lyrics were more relatable, coming from somebody in the same age group that's had similar life experiences. So it kind of... It kind of dialed into that, like a relatability. You might like hip hop in the way it makes you feel, but even here's some hip hop that maybe you can relate to. So it was, it was kind of geared towards

• 10:50Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 10:50Speaker 02

  college kids, but organically, because that's all we knew. You know what I mean? So you brought up Mac Miller. I remember, I didn't even know that there was like this kind of internet rap thing happening until I made a song and I put one, you know, I saw Mac Miller. I didn't know he existed yet and I just, I remember watching him and I was just like, and I, and, and I don't mean this in any disrespect. He's, he's one of my favorite artists. I mean, I just saw how he was doing it. He's walking around with his friends. He's talking about real life shit like that I could relate to. And I was just like, I could do this. It's kind of like a light bulb went off. And I remember him specifically. I remember the video.

• 11:26Anthony Pompliano?

  But you have to see it. Like, like I do think, uh, being exposed to things makes it tangible, right? Like you realize, oh, somebody else didn't have to go to the big studio. They didn't have to do the really scripted music video. They just walked around with their friends.

• 11:40Speaker 02

  That's exactly.

• 11:41Anthony Pompliano?

  Uh, the ability to emulate comes from exposure to it.

• 11:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:45Anthony Pompliano?

  And I do wonder how, like the internet obviously was important, right? But also like this entire generation, like I remember when we first got like YouTube and being like, yo.

• 11:57Speaker 02

  Crazy.

• 11:58Anthony Pompliano?

  They would never put this shit on TV. Like that's how you thought about internet videos, right? It was like, this is the cool stuff. They would never put this on TV. Now everyone's dropping TV to go and basically get YouTube, right? Like it's crazy how much that changes in 15 years.

• 12:10Speaker 02

  I think it's an amazing time to be alive. I mean, you can make arguments either which way. There's an argument for every, everything on the internet. Valid arguments on every side of every topic, you know? But I think it's an amazing time to be alive and just being witness to what's happening and the evolutions and, and, uh, especially in the arts. We could get into it more like later in the conversation, but it's just such an interesting time to be a creator and contributor.

• 12:36Anthony Pompliano?

  How do you make the music right now? So you've got a microphone, you just got your computer, basically?

• 12:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:41Anthony Pompliano?

  And you get an idea, you just jump on the microphone?

• 12:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, um.

• 12:48Speaker 02

  I can honestly say, I think my first setup was like 1,200 bucks all in.

• 12:55Speaker 02

  You know, and that was that song, that one song, it was called College Humor. You know, and I was literally just talking about my day in college that day, like it just, just caught on enough, you know? But, I mean, I was recording in a, Marcus Strowman was there, we were in a closet, I hung towels up to get a little soundproofing or whatever, and we're just fucking, just throwing paint against the wall, having fun, you know? And like, truly, that's what I've tried to harness now, that's what I'm doing right now. I was telling you before we got on screen, I mean, my setup is in front of the biggest, nicest window in the house usually, ideally in the master bedroom, so that's how I'm choosing houses, you know?

• 13:37Speaker 02

  Essentially, what I'm doing is, I'm traveling, I'm kind of like a current day gypsy in a sense, like I, I don't have a permanent address. When COVID really, really happened in, in 2020, I had been in LA for about six years, I'd done the whole Hollywood race, tried to be a cool guy, Beverly Hills, you know, and it just never aligned with me, and I just, I was almost trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, I felt, and I also kind of developed into an artist where I record myself. I'm the lead producer, I'm lead vocalist, I'm lead engineer, I'm executive producing, and I'm handing file exchanges to mix, master, I'm handling the business, I've stayed independent where, you know, so it is, it's just,

• 14:22Speaker 02

  not, not a one-stop shop, I'll say, because I work with a few producers, mainly remotely, but like, I don't need to be in fucking LA or Nashville, I don't need to be in a music city, and that freedom, that aha moment, I went and visited my buddy, at the time I was very close with Post Malone, and he was around in LA a bunch, he'd always come over to the house, and I went out to see him in Utah and live, live out there for a while, and I just- I just noticed how I felt, man. I was waking up, these pine trees and how I felt creatively. And I just knew I needed to go. And we just sold and fucking picked up and left. And we're U-Haul Penske boys, man. Like, we, you know, I travel light. I got one big storage unit in Nashville, one big storage unit in LA.

• 15:07Speaker 02

  I have an amazing guy who takes care and does the drives and helps break down and makes moving easy. You know, but we're light. So it makes moving easy, but we're traveling wherever the fuck we're called to. You know, so I've been in Miami for two months. Right now, I'm looking at, you know, I'm looking at the ocean. And you can, I, seriously, like, what I will say, creativity is a bit of, there's some spirituality with being creative. And there are places, there's energy in everywhere you go.

• 15:37Anthony Pompliano?

  Hundred percent.

• 15:38Speaker 02

  Like, it will light you the fuck up. And the more I've tuned in to just being present in spirit, I'll say aligned with my spirit, I just realize and recognize when a place has gotten stale or stagnant, and I would appreciate something new, whether it's the electricity in Miami where you get that vibe from the ocean. The ocean's one of the most energetic things on the fucking planet. Like, then there's, I've been to two different places in Montana, Idaho. We've been all over, you know, all different types of spaces and energy. But I feel as though I'm not really, I'm just tuning in to the, to the space that I'm at. And I feel like I'm a vessel. I can translate it into the music. I make different music there than I would here.

• 16:23Speaker 02

  And I set up in front of big studios. It makes no sense to look at a wall if you're trying to be creative. Imagine going into the same room every day and be like, why are my ideas stagnant? I'm looking at this fucking black wall. You know what I mean? And now I'm like, oh, I'm looking at this beautiful view that I haven't seen yet in this new house. You know that energy. There's an excitement to it. And what it's done to me is I just feel so present because I'm not really letting stagnation happen. You know, the way the mind works, I've dove into that a lot. And I just feel like I'm more or less trying to live every day in a creative, basically opening up a way for me to feel creative and create space for ideas to come through.

• 17:05Anthony Pompliano?

  How much of the super viral, super successful songs are?

• 17:11Anthony Pompliano?

  Hours, days, weeks of work versus like, yeah, I was drunk and I just had an idea and I fucking sat down, recorded it. It's like the equivalent on Twitter. I always joke that like, you know, these people will spend hours. I've done it. Yo, it's the fire tweet.

• 17:28Speaker 01

  The action's on the court and as the official beer sponsor of the NBA, Michelob Ultra is getting fans closer to the game with a chance to win courtside seats, merch and more. Visit michelobultra.com/courtside to enter. Michelob Ultra Courtside, 26 to 27. No purchase necessary. Open to U.S. residents 21+. Begins on October 1st, 2026 and ends on June 30th, 2027. Multiple entry periods. See official rules at michelobultra.com/courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes and details.

• 17:55Anthony Pompliano?

  Dud. Toilet tweet. You're sitting there taking a shit. Bam. Fire went off. Super viral. Right? And like, I don't know if that's, uh, that's the truth. Like that, that's the thing that's closest to like, uh, the authenticity and that resonates with people. So it explodes. Is music the same way?

• 18:10Speaker 02

  Yeah. I have, I have a thought about like writing, like journaling or any writing ideas. Like if it's, if it's not messy, you thought too much about it. And, and I think creativity, what I was just saying is about, I'm basically trying to set up myself every day to be available for ideas to come. When the ideas come, you just be a vessel and translate it. So that's how I've made it into my music making process. It varies, right? It's case by case. Some ideas might need to be nourished and ushered in to a certain space. Personally, um, I know in my experience, all the best stuff is in the magic. The stuff that I, you know, all my, all my best

• 18:50Speaker 02

  stuff, really the majority of the idea happened in an instant, happened in a span of 10, 20, 30 minutes. Um, and that's, that's really where I lean more and more as I go. If I gotta think about it and baby an idea and like work hard. I have don't try tattooed on my leg. Like if I have to work hard to get this idea to fruition. You know what I mean? I don't, it kind of speaks to me like there's some, I don't know, you know, like the ones that I get really excited about and feel and the proof is in the results, like a lot of them are, they're moments, they're moments that you capture.

• 19:27Anthony Pompliano?

  How, um, how much do you pay attention to how big the audience is, how successful a song is, like what I would think of a business person goes to work, right? And they're very much, uh, okay, we have to hit X revenue goal. We have to, uh, you know, reach as many customers, whatever. Most creative people, it's kind of hit or miss. Some people are like that, right? And they're very data driven and very much like, hey, I want to create things that, that keep growing my audience and things like that. Other people are just like, I couldn't tell you how many followers I have or whatever, because it's just like, I'm just like, I just enjoy the music and if it works, it works great.

• 19:58Speaker 02

  Yeah. Um, in my opinion, it's about, it's for the artist, right? It's about the doing. It's just about the creation, right? I know, cause I've been in the game for a minute and I know and I've, I've had so many foots in the water. Hey, I might dive in, do a record deal. Hey, let's, let's go mainstream. Let's grow the audience. Really what it is, is they're offering a commodity exchange. We're going to give you more fame, notoriety, your name, your value, your presence, you'll be able to monetize at a much higher level, probably 10x, maybe 20, shake, maybe a hundred. You know, you could be, we can make you that. Without us, you're not going to be that, right? And that's really the dream. And that's

• 20:42Speaker 02

  really the commodity exchange. If you think about it is we're going to take the lion's share of the income here on this music. We're going to take 85, the common deal is 85% goes to the record label. The artist gets 15%, but we're going to grow you and your presence so strong that the return on, on just your notoriety and just your brand is, is going to make more than enough sense. Now that, that rings true for a tiny percent of artists who do record deals. And that's who they champion to the new kids they're trying to sign. Look what we did. Look, look at Post Malone. Look at, you know, all these, but really the majority of artists, that doesn't happen. And really what ends up happening is you get shelved because art-

• 21:26Speaker 02

  It's a corporate game, right? Like, these are publicly traded companies. They want market share. Hey, we got 75% of market share. This is why our valuation is this. It's going up and up and up. They wanna gobble, gobble, gobble, gobble up the market share. They don't care personally about your record or your career going to the moon. They want the market. You know what I mean? So, in regards to audience, like, I'll tell you, really, most of it is smoke and mirrors. I can say that factually, right? Like, they're paying people to boost, like, they're paying people to boost the streams. I know, there's stream farms. I've seen, I've been in email exchanges where like, hey, we can offer you this. And because really, what they're feeding into is the modern day marketing, right?

• 22:12Speaker 02

  It's just, it's the herd mentality.

• 22:15Speaker 02

  This has eight billion. Ooh, do you see he's getting 75,000 likes on these videos and all these comments? Like, what am I missing out over here? You know? That song's got a billion streams. Or, I can't, I can't swipe through TikTok and not hear this song. What is this song? I should know about it, you know? Ooh, I do like this, yeah. Really, that's what they're feeding into, but it's kind of a big game of payola. You know what I mean?

• 22:38Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 22:38Speaker 02

  If something's booming on TikTok, it's mainly because they spent a bunch of money paying influencers to use the records organically in their posts.

• 22:46Anthony Pompliano?

  How much you think they pay to make something go viral?

• 22:48Speaker 02

  I mean, it ranges, right? Like, you could pay a bunch of money and your shit sucks and it's not gonna work. I'm not, I'm not taking away from the artist, but the game really is, is like, that's really become the new commercial. That's become the new radio ad. That's become the new, you know, like, it's essentially like, hey, anywhere from probably, it can range, but anywhere, the starting point for really getting some traction on TikTok's probably 50K. A song on the radio is a hit song because they put almost a million dollars behind it. Getting all the fucking iHearts and everybody, conglomerates, and that's really the whole game, right? So, when you realize that as the artist, you know, like, for me, it's corny to fucking pay people to like my shit. I'm not interested in that.

• 23:33Speaker 02

  That's, that's just lame. You know what I mean? Like, so I just started seeing what was actually happening. You asked a question earlier. I don't even think I got to the answer, but it's like... There was a time where I wanted more than anything to just be validated by a record deal. Say, hey, look, fuck you guys, you were wrong. You know what I mean? Or, hey, mom, like, look, I'm not an idiot. I went to Duke and I became a fucking white college rapper. And it's working out. I got a record deal. Like, look, my song's on the radio. There was one time where I did a little, I did a disco deal, not a record deal, but a disco deal and this legend, Lior Cohen, who's a rap legend, you know, just administrative legend in hip hop, fucked with me, came on board, ran one of my songs up. This was 2014.

• 24:16Speaker 02

  Like, I had a record working at radio and I remember sitting in my car, like, waiting for it to come on in my local radio station. You know what I mean? Now I look back at that and I grimace. I'm just like, really, all it was is just like, I'm paying people to play the music. They're really, the dream, like, the way you have is like, oh, you get, you make such a great song that everyone hears it. Where that's really not, that's just, making a great song is your artist duty. And going back to your main question here is like, it's what it has to be about if you want to be an artist for a long time and enjoy yourself. If you're, if you're attached to the results when they're not even in your control, you have to do a deal or you have to have private capital or you have to figure out how to really hustle, move and shake.

• 25:01Speaker 02

  Maybe you network your ass off and you know a bunch of TikTokers and they'll post it for you because they're your boy or whatever it is. But there's external factors that are out of your control completely in regards to having a hit. Hey, saying, the regular guy, you know, whoever, who's not really in the music game, wow, Mike made it, man. Like, I hear his song on the radio and like, wow, there's millions of followers now and like, look how big he and popular he is, you know? That became less and less the goal as I started to see the realities of what was going on.

• 25:32Anthony Pompliano?

  How much of like, the lifestyle, the vibe, right? Because it's very distinct. I can pretty much play any one of your songs, you don't know this, but my young daughter, if I play one of the songs, she starts dancing, right? And is like you, Old MacDonald, and a couple of other songs, but like, there's just something to it, right? Where it doesn't matter if you're a young child or an adult, like, you feel it's different, right? It's a magnet, though, because you have a lot of friends, a lot of people who have come around you. They professional athletes, people that others would know that aren't in the music industry, whatever. And is it more so they're drawn to like, hey, this is different. And kind of the outlier type folks somehow find each other in life.

• 26:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:12Anthony Pompliano?

  Like, I think a lot about, you know, everyone who's like super corporate, if they go to a party, they all find each other and they go and they talk in the corner, right?

• 26:19Speaker 02

  It's a lot of attraction, man.

• 26:20Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, like all the weirdos, right? They all end up in a corner. All the entrepreneurs end up in a corner, right? All the people who like are the contrarians, they end up and you're like, how'd this happen? How do we self-select into these groups? But you kind of find the people who tend to think like you do or have the same vibe as you somehow.

• 26:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 26:38Speaker 02

  I actually like, you follow me on Instagram. I know we go back and forth and you probably see like there's a spiritual undertone to where I'm, where I'm at in life. And it's just the truth. It's like the cold, hard truth of like, what happened to me? Where I fell into my artist bag truly and why I think it's resonating on a frequency level, right? That album's called The Highest. Guess who's on the, guess who's on the fucking biggest, highest, the highest frequency in the fucking planet? It's kids. You know how many people tell me their kids fuck with it? And I, I mean, I'm not making the music for kids. It's, it's adult music and it's like, you could argue, you probably, you couldn't, some songs you shouldn't let your kids hear.

• 27:16Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, my wife be hitting me with that sometimes, like, eh eh eh eh eh.

• 27:19Speaker 02

  Tell her it's a frequency thing and she'll, she'll, she'll understand.

• 27:22Anthony Pompliano?

  She don't remember what we told her five minutes ago, she's fine.

• 27:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you know what I'm saying? Like, it's, it's kind of where this whole conversation's connected and why I stand by being like, the best thing that ever happened to me was staying individual, independent and not trading. Yeah, maybe I could be playing stadiums right now if I took the dives five years ago or even three years ago, which there was a few times I almost did.

• 27:51Anthony Pompliano?

  What, what were those opportunities like? Why did you not do it?

• 27:54Speaker 02

  Well, you know, get fairly, I got pretty balls deep in one in particular where I was like very close to doing a deal.

• 28:00Anthony Pompliano?

  Do people know which one it is or no?

• 28:02Speaker 02

  I've never really said it. It was with a big artist in tandem and it was tied to doing, you know, it was tied to having features. It was tied to being on their tours.

• 28:11Anthony Pompliano?

  Was it Post Malone? All right, go ahead.

• 28:14Speaker 02

  But, you know, but more so even, even, even deeper than that.

• 28:21Speaker 02

  Really what it came down to was like, when I talk about intuition, I'm dead serious. Like, I never felt like the people, like the real administrative side of the record labels, like, I didn't value their opinion. They're like, they're like fucking in a suit telling me if it's a wave or not. I don't need you to tell me if it's a wave or not. I'm not even making music for you. I actually prefer, I don't give one fuck what you think about my music. And then, I'm just thinking about it, I'm like, this is my livelihood and I'm building this. And it's just like, I'm gonna gamble it with this dude who might be at the other company. And like, it's like a merry-go-round. People are switching labels, they're getting hired. So I just like, I talk about being behind the curtain a lot.

• 29:02Speaker 02

  And like, I've taken this really long route here, where I've just seen a bunch and I've sponged it up. And I'm like, this doesn't really align with, this doesn't make sense for me. You know what I mean? Yes, I could get way more popular and famous, but I'm giving away the lion's share of my fucking income, and this is my livelihood. These people don't give a fuck. I know, I can sense it. You know what I mean? So, that was where, it really was, I can't say there was like, one thing they did or one reason.

• 29:33Anthony Pompliano?

  It just felt wrong.

• 29:34Speaker 02

  This intuitive feeling like, this is way too much of a gamble, like.

• 29:37Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 29:38Speaker 02

  You know what I mean?

• 29:38Anthony Pompliano?

  It reminds me of Kanye, the trilogy that's on Netflix. He's got the one scene where he goes in, he's got the CD, and he's a producer, he wants to be a rapper, he puts it and he's playing it, and he goes like, literally like, office to office, and they're just like, yo, bro, like, get him off. It's like, I'm trying to get work done. Right? And you hear it, and you're like, bro, that's a banger.

• 29:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 29:57Anthony Pompliano?

  Now.

• 29:58Speaker 02

  And it's like, art, I mean, taste is so, it's so subjective. And in society, we like to, he's the best, I'm the best. Oh, you see these streams? He's the best, he's sold this many. It's like... Arguments over who's better and I can't believe you like this and you know this whole thing. It's like you don't go to dinner and argue like you should have got the steak. The steak's way better than the chicken. You should have got it. It's like, it's just fucking taste. You know what I mean? So for me, it's like if I like something, that's my compass. I feel as though I'm tuned in to who I am and my taste. I've closed the artist gap. There's a gap like I forget the philosopher who talks about this, but

• 30:40Speaker 02

  when you're creating things, there's a gap that you, the real aim is they talk about the 10,000 hours. That's how you close that gap. You have something in your head and your heart that you want to create. It takes a lot of time, a lot of patience and a lot of diligence and hard work to close that gap. And then be actually creating what's in your heart and in your head tangibly. So over the years, I've closed that gap significantly to where right now, I feel as though I've arrived at I'm making what I want to make. What's in my heart and in my head and it's effortless. And this is where I'm in my bag here. So if I fucking like it at all, there's gonna be fucking hundreds of thousands or maybe millions of people that like it too.

• 31:18Anthony Pompliano?

  Do you ever think when you see how many streams or the views on a YouTube video or whatever like, one of the pieces that it took me a long time. So we publish a YouTube video, right? An interview with somebody or something, a million views. My God, cool. Got a million views. I'm excited, right? Like I see the numbers like everybody else. But I stopped at that one time. I was like, dude, you know how many Super Bowl stadiums? A million people is, right? Like imagine sitting on the field, all these people watching and then time's at about like eight or 10 and being like, whoa, that's a lot of fucking people, right? Do you ever do that where like the digital numbers don't feel nearly as real as maybe you go play a festival and there's a thousand people and you're like, yo, that thousand people feels way more real than the

• 32:02Anthony Pompliano?

  million people who listen to a song, but it's just a number on the screen?

• 32:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. It's, it's a, it's kind of, it's, it's like, it's the times we're living in, right? Like, things are just going digital and that's just the way it is, right? So what you just said is super valid and I've had that thought before. You can't ever trade in the feeling for human connection and the energy in a room and how it feels to shake their hand, look in their eye, or just you walk in and people erupt and they're singing the lyrics and you feel it and it makes it all worth it. You know what I mean? At the same time, you know, from the business standpoint and just being objective,

• 32:49Speaker 02

  you could really argue nowadays it's way more cost effective as an artist and creator to stay home and create and upload because you're reaching... Yeah, you might be in Tennessee, Nashville, Tennessee, and there might be 8,000 people there that night and maybe you made 3,000 new fans out of it. Awesome. But one post can make fucking 18,000 new fans and get in front of 600,000 new people. And that whole, what is that kinetic reaction? Like, what is the chain of reaction that happens there? And how does it trickle down into your success and money earned or awareness or notoriety? You know, so I don't, I really, again, leaning into the spiritual side of things, I don't, I'm really practicing detachment.

• 33:33Speaker 02

  Like, the joy, like, the joy I get when I have an idea and I create it and I have a fucking huge smile on my face, like I'm a fucking eight-year-old. You know what I mean? Like, I'm in my room, fucking, sometimes in my underwear because I just woke up, and I got a fucking, I'm smoking a fucking backwood, looking at the ocean. I got here off making music and I got a fucking, I'm lit up with a huge smile from an idea. It's kind of where it begins and ends for me. Now I'm gonna execute it. I'm gonna execute it because that's the role I've taken. I've taken an independent route and it comes with more duties. I'm gonna make sure I execute this. I don't have executive producers or A and Rs or labels that are gonna... I'm not interested in spending money and marketing it and trying to tell people like me.

• 34:17Speaker 02

  I believe as though, like you said... You put your true frequency out there, you put your true self out there. It will attract others that are on that same vibe.

• 34:26Anthony Pompliano?

  But I also think it's a more valuable fan. I think a lot about like, uh, you know, there's, um, you could have millions and millions of people who know you and kind of sort of like you. But by doing it the way you're doing it, when you have a million people show up somewhere, they fucking love you. Like I saw a video recently, uh, Taylor Swift, I think maybe in Philadelphia. I don't know if you saw these videos. Uh, she did a concert and, uh, they were filming like the bridge and like the highway and shit outside of the stadium. And somebody commented, they were like, yo, she's got more people outside listening to the music than most artists have inside at their, uh, show. It blew me away.

• 35:01Speaker 02

  She's a, probably the prime example of like, yeah, she's gotten mega, mega famous and has been for a long time, but she's been able to have this grounded feeling, right? Like she, she, you never lost her. If you were listening to her, you never lost Taylor to the, to the ether, like to the ether of just being so famous and having such a different life. Like she's still, there, there's, there's just something, I think there's something human that other humans need or really yearn for, and it's subconscious, but like you could tell if I'm being authentic.

• 35:36Anthony Pompliano?

  Of course.

• 35:37Speaker 02

  You just can. And like even your ear can, you're like, I don't know why I like this more. Maybe technically like a lot, I have no idea what I'm doing musically. None. I have no music theory understanding.

• 35:49Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 35:50Speaker 02

  I have no fucking idea why I have melodies in my head. I don't know. You know what I mean? But you, you know, someone who's classically trained might say, ah, why didn't he go, he should have went to A major there. Why did he? I don't give a fuck. You know what I mean? And I think at least I'm going off my ear and my experiences like, I think most people aren't really, they're not listening to music like in theory, you know what I mean? They're just going, it's a feeling. It's literally a vibration. How does it make you feel?

• 36:18Anthony Pompliano?

  You're a vibes dealer.

• 36:19Speaker 02

  Exactly. For real though. And, and you know, like, if you can add a good vibration to someone's day or even for a moment, that's where you start to have these real fans. Like, so she's done such a good job at cultivating and amongst mega stardom, just having a grounded essence, you know? And, and she's really, really good at, at showing her fans she cares. She played a fucking three hour set in fucking rain.

• 36:46Anthony Pompliano?

  Crazy.

• 36:47Speaker 02

  Most guys, most guys with cancer, most people would just be like, fuck it, we'll redo it. You know, it doesn't matter. I'm so fucking successful and famous. It doesn't matter, you know?

• 36:55Anthony Pompliano?

  It is a similarity between Taylor Swift playing three hours in the rain. And I think Michael Jordan was famous for saying like, if I was not like basically on my deathbed, I was playing, right? Whatever kid bought that ticket, maybe the only time he's ever got a chance to come watch me play, I'm playing. And you almost get this like, um, the, the people who rise to absolute, like the extreme of talent, they feel an obligation and like they feel so connected to the audience that it's not a one-way street. It's not like, oh, you guys have all this fame, whatever. It's actually this feeling of like, I owe you all just as much as you think that, you know, I like, uh, you guys owe me and as much as I think.

• 37:37Speaker 02

  I literally fell into a spiritual bag because I was experiencing this. I had, I had people telling me like I saved their life with, with, uh, you know, certain songs I would make. As much as I was like the college rapper, like I, I did always kind of tap into more meaningful stuff. And, and I'm on this tour bus. It's like the fucking magic carpet ride. You know what I mean? Like we're getting, we're, we're getting wasted, playing, playing shows, getting wasted, going out, getting more wasted. Whoever's around, girls on the bus, fall, pass out, wake up, another city. We're doing the same thing. You know what I mean? And, and you do it over and over again. And there's something like, I don't even know how to put it. It's just kind of numbing.

• 38:20Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? And it's like, then all the, it's just like a simulation. It's just new faces and new, but it's like the same song and dance, literally. You know what I mean? So.

• 38:30Anthony Pompliano?

  But it also is like you and your boys probably at some point get to, uh, you've done it so many times. You like, you could literally before the night starts, like scripted out. Be like, hey, we're gonna do this, this, he's gonna say this to a girl, right? This guy's gonna get drunk and pee on himself. Like you just know.

• 38:44Speaker 02

  We had a, we had a fucking blast. I'm not, I'm, and especially coming from the space where this was so left field.

• 38:52Anthony Pompliano?

  Yep.

• 38:52Speaker 02

  Like I had no foresight of like me being a musician and touring and being like, I just didn't, you know what I mean? Like I had me being, I, I had a feeling I was gonna have fame and success in some way, but I felt it was gonna be from being a pro baseball player. And that was all I cared, you know, that was what I wanted to do. But we go on these tours, I get into the point like.

• 39:13Speaker 02

  I started to feel myself, first off, we had a blast and I'm not saying it was, we did like, it was amazing, but I started to feel a lack of presence. And what you're talking about is, you know, this ability to stay present as an artist when you are getting abnormal amounts of attention, adoration, you know what I mean? You're getting almost situations that like, you know, it's not really like natural for humans to be like, for another human to be like, I come on stage and people are like, ah, you know what I mean? Like, that's not even normal or natural, you know? That, that becomes numb. And then people are saying these things and they're like, I was having these meet and greets, I stopped doing meet and greets like this, I came up with a new way of doing it,

• 39:56Speaker 02

  but it's just like, I'm waiting in a line, for half the time I'm hungover, and I am truly trying to be present. And they're coming up and shaking your hand and telling their story and they have this really short window of time and like, the security guards rushing them and it's awkward and I'm like, they're pouring their heart out. I started to realize like, I needed to tap into presence, like I, it's, it's when I started to clean up my life a little bit and really start to practice presence, because I didn't really have much of it as a young man, you know, like, and that has been a huge unlock, because as I've gotten more successful, I get more grateful, more compassionate, more understanding of fans and maybe the way they behave sometimes is a little overbearing, okay?

• 40:40Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? Less self-importance as I've become more important, quote unquote, in the world, as my notoriety grows, less, you know, judgmental and, and less like, hey, like, give me my space, I'm a celebrity, or, you know? It's just, it's just like, for me, the more popular I get, the more fucking thankful I am to the people. And it's really, you know, goes hand in hand with some of my choices here, like, I'd much rather, you talk about, I know your number's gotten business and, and I have a very different approach at how to view an audience and how to monetize an audience, and, and I really think-

• 41:17Anthony Pompliano?

  What is the difference?

• 41:19Speaker 02

  So I have, I have something, so I call my fan Steve.

• 41:22Anthony Pompliano?

  Why?

• 41:23Speaker 02

  No idea. We're like, most of the shit that works, like we just talked about, were dumbass, stupid ideas, me and my boys. We would get high, we'd smoke and be like, ah, yeah, go do your thing, Steve. We just always call each other Steve. And we were filming a little TV show. I started a YouTube vlog called Touring's Boring, which was satire. It was like really racy. Probably couldn't put it out now. You know what I mean? Like, it was, it was like the trenches of touring, women, partying, whatever. A TV Esquire network sees it. We do this as Mike Stud in 2015 or 16, I believe. We're filming it three weeks in. There's a camera crew following us and they're like, the producer pulls me aside, he's like,

• 42:03Speaker 01

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• 42:31Speaker 02

  We have to address the Steve thing because all we have is you guys calling each other Steve. And like, it doesn't, no one, it doesn't make any sense. It's not gonna make sense to the viewer. You know, so we address it, it becomes a bigger thing. You know what I mean? The Steve thing is, is, uh, it's just like a perfect anomaly example of like, I think all the best ideas are the stupid ones.

• 42:50Anthony Pompliano?

  Imagine being the producer going home and like telling your significant other, like, you know, these fucking guys call each other Steve. Like, can you imagine if I just came home and called you Larry?

• 42:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Like, there was, there was this boyish charm to it all, even as we were fucking idiots and probably doing it longer than we should have been. And we weren't kids anymore, but we felt like we were. I still feel like I'm a fucking kid right now. But like, so Only Steve's is something that I, that I, that I launched in about, I think it's, we're approaching two years ago, right?

• 43:18Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 43:19Speaker 02

  Obviously, you know, OnlyFans is a real thing, real commerce happening there, but also very risque, very niche, you know, porn sex leaning, right? Like, just that, it's definitely associated to that.

• 43:38Speaker 02

  Now, I'm an artist who like really makes a lot of ideas. I freestyle everything. It's pain against the wall. There's a lengthy vault, a lot of great ideas. But, you know, there's also a process of executing, which is like taking songs that are 50% ideas to 100, right? And I'm just looking at it objectively. I'm trying to understand, like, I'm trying to see where the innovation is. Because it's the wild, wild west. The industry's changing so fast. And I'm looking at where we can innovate. And we started this subscription model. No artist had ever done it. Where it's like, yo, I'm literally gonna, I'm locking myself into a timeline, which is a big creative no-no. Like, hey, let creative... As an artist, you're supposed, you're not supposed to...

• 44:21Speaker 02

  Timelines are like, kind of, almost like, mm, be careful to subscribe to timelines. Don't put time on your creativity and don't rush things. But I just was listening to myself and seeing what I was doing. And most of the ideas happen really quick now. I have this vault growing.

• 44:38Speaker 02

  If you think about it, right? I'm putting a song out every two weeks. I'm doing behind-the-scenes-only, exclusive access. You know, the same song and dance as like a Patreon, whatever.

• 44:49Speaker 02

  But, I mean, I'm not doing any extra work. And I've tripled my music revenue in two years. So, the way I look at audience, right? 10,000 people a month subscribed at 10 bucks. I'm getting 100K for ideas that, guess what? They might not come out, right? Or, they're gonna come out... Most of the songs do come out and do the same business they would do on the Spotify's and the Apples. So, I'm just getting a fucking cash advance from people that really want to care, that really want to hear this shit and are really tapped in. And we haven't even scratched the surface, man. It's been a really slow development. There's a reason why we're making our own...

• 45:33Speaker 02

  It's, I can't, I can't exactly say the date yet. But very soon here, we've been building out a platform that is built for this. The music industry is like really, really changing with AI and what's happening and like, it's really not about having a zillion fans, two million fans. It's about having twenty, thirty, twenty thousand people. If twenty thousand people are subscribed at five to nine bucks a month, you're talking about being a millionaire. And it's only twenty thousand fucking people that are tuned in. You know what I mean? So it's weaponizing your actual art. It's whatever you're good at, you know what I mean? This direct to consumer model is just, to me, I feel as though it's bigger than creators.

• 46:17Speaker 02

  It's, it's commerce, you know what I mean? Like, so my boy, who's a partner on this company that we've been building, which is why I've been slow playing the development of Only Steve's, because it's going, it's going to go a lot user friendly and a lot better very soon. His girlfriend's a content creator, she has seventy thousand followers, I believe. She has a hundred people subscribe to her. She was kind of the beta, the first, the first trial. Hundred people subscribe, she's doing eight thousand dollars a month. She's working two hours a week and she's just making one of one recipes, recipe packs. No, no digital, there's no, she doesn't have to get on camera. You know what I mean? She's just leveraging her a little, like, the crowd that, the crowd that she's built,

• 47:01Speaker 02

  she's living in her passion. So she's making a living off how she lives, which is really what making a living should be. For getting, for living and doing, living your truth and figuring out how to monetize that directly. So what I'm saying is like, I already know the commerce and how hard it is for artists to really get lucrative. And I know how saturated this market's getting. Right now, there's a hundred thousand songs a day uploaded to Spotify.

• 47:26Anthony Pompliano?

  That's crazy.

• 47:26Speaker 02

  And Apple, and guess what? In two, three years, it will be a million a day. AI might change it forever to the point where there's ten thousand songs going up a fucking minute. Because they have AI bots generate, you don't know.

• 47:40Anthony Pompliano?

  What do you think about the AI stuff? Think it's legit?

• 47:42Speaker 02

  It's, it's the future. So like, you can, you can, it's no doubt. Definitely polarizing. There are going to be a bunch of people, hence what I was just talking about. There's gonna be a bunch of music consumers that say, "Fuck that shit. I wanna, I wanna have a connection with, I wanna, I want the art to be from real artists, and I love music, and it's just, I can't do, you know, cool, right? So there's gonna be a bunch of people that go that way, and then there's gonna be the majority of the people that music isn't, music isn't like, they're not going on Spotify when they get home from work and combing the fucking, "Let me find a new artist."

• 48:19Anthony Pompliano?

  With a dat piff, right?

• 48:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, think about you, like, you, you, you have a fucking business, and then you have kids, and you're, you're not like combing the fu, that's for kids.

• 48:26Anthony Pompliano?

  When I was in college.

• 48:28Speaker 02

  It's for kids.

• 48:29Anthony Pompliano?

  Every leaked album, I fucking knew about it, right?

• 48:31Speaker 02

  Exactly, exactly.

• 48:32Anthony Pompliano?

  Couldn't tell you one of them.

• 48:33Speaker 02

  So guess what, kids, and I'm tell, there's a song right now called "Heart on My Sleeve", by a go, his name was Ghostwriter. And I know, through a friend, of a friend, that it was a, it's a fair, it's a fairly established artist who did this. So, first off, right now, the way the AI works is, I can explain it a little bit. Like, the way, the way it works is, the artist, the songwriter, right? You have to create the melodies and record them with your voice. So you have to have, one, the know-how, the feel, and the sauce to just make a dope song. So this guy who did it is actually a dope writer, right? Then he runs it through the AI-generated Drake and Weekend Bot, which sound pretty fucking close, you know?

• 49:18Speaker 02

  And the shit's taken off, it took off immediately on TikTok, started to take off on Spotify, they took it down in two days. But right now, as I scroll through my Instagram reels, I hear it every fucking day. No one gives a, so many people don't give a fuck who the artist is anymore. My whole point with the direction, and like, I started to realize, it's like, it's just about having your crowd and fucking managing that.

• 49:43Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 49:44Speaker 02

  Serving your crowd. Because, very soon, bro, like, the artist could become obsolete, the producer could become obsolete with this AI thing. I think it's the future. I think most kids, you know, like we said, kids are the ones who are the combing, of looking for the, "Who's my favorite artist? This, I love", you know, it's like, art plays a big role in kids' lives, and they have that free time, and... Most kids who are seven, eight years old right now, by the time they're fifteen, and this AI bot is just gonna keep improving and proving you're not gonna, they're not, you're not gonna know what's real or fake.

• 50:19Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 50:19Speaker 02

  So they're gonna be listening, should be like, yo, this fucking shit's hard. I don't give a fuck who made it. You know what I mean?

• 50:24Anthony Pompliano?

  Why don't you do, I think, Grimes?

• 50:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:27Anthony Pompliano?

  I saw she basically, I don't even think she actually did anything.

• 50:29Speaker 02

  No.

• 50:30Anthony Pompliano?

  I think all she said was, have at it, use my voice, I won't come after you, and we'll split the revenue.

• 50:35Speaker 02

  That's the future. So, so what's part of what's being built in our world is like, it's starting here in this space, this OnlySteve's, like, you're an artist, you're a creator, maybe you're a fucking, maybe you're a mechanic who's, who's amazing at, at fixing tires and fixing cars. You can outsource your services directly as a marketplace. So like, included in this marketplace, like, like my marketplace right now is subscribe for nine bucks. You get a premium podcast, premium songs, four of those guaranteed, you know, two podcasts, two songs, a bunch of behind the scenes shit. We're also kicking back cash. You can create, curate your own service, right? But where it goes from there is essentially, it's, it's a market, it's, it's no different than Shopify.

• 51:18Speaker 02

  So on, on my page or on my artist page, going forward, yeah, you can submit your songs with my bot. I'll, like, just like Grimes said, if I like it, I'll sign off on it, you can feature me on the song. I did no work, you know, and pretty soon, that's just the way the AI bot works right now. Pretty soon, it will be so developed to where it will, say you're a Mike fan, right? And you want a song with Mike. I have enough songs and offerings that the, the AI, the bot will be able to predict and learn the type of melodies I would do as well. So not only will it replicate my voice, but it will also be able to write the song. So you could type in lyrics and say, I want a song about fucking cold beers.

• 52:02Anthony Pompliano?

  I can think you can do it right now. If you go into ChatGPT or whatever. You can say, um, for example, uh,

• 52:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know.

• 52:10Anthony Pompliano?

  Write a blog post about this, but the part that blew my mind was you could be like, and write it in the style of Hunter S. Thompson. Write it in the style of whatever.

• 52:17Speaker 02

  Amazing.

• 52:17Anthony Pompliano?

  Eventually, you're just gonna be able to write song lyrics about this topic in the style of Mike.

• 52:21Speaker 02

  I'm also saying melodically. So,

• 52:24Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, interesting.

• 52:24Speaker 02

  I'm saying like, oh, I know what, I've heard all the mics. The AI has heard every melody choice I've ever made, and it predicts and interprets what I would do melodically.

• 52:35Anthony Pompliano?

  So it's not just the words, it's putting it all together?

• 52:36Speaker 02

  And then if you don't like it, you hit refresh until you get another one. So that, you know what I mean? Like, this is where the commerce of, of music is gonna change completely.

• 52:45Anthony Pompliano?

  Does it, does it hurt you if too much music comes out? Like, is there a scarcity value?

• 52:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:50Anthony Pompliano?

  Where, you know, you, you definitely publish more than most artists, I would say, right? And that's part of the brand, that's part of the lifestyle, like all this stuff. And, and it's like, hey, when inspiration hits, I'm doing it, I'm not waiting for an album, whatever. Could you do it too much?

• 53:07Anthony Pompliano?

  Or are we gonna find out?

• 53:09Speaker 02

  We're gonna find out, yeah. No, you know, it's, it's, uh, it's, it's case by case. I'm a type of artist, like I said, I've kind of developed into this space creatively where I'm like, most of the ideas, I'm like, they're happening quick, you know what I mean? So, yeah, like, I play a middle ground right now, but even you saying that, it's a bit outdated, and I'm a bit out, I'm in a similar age bracket where like, it's a bit outdated, that's kind of an outdated thought, like, oh, man, you're over-serving. People are fucking bored in three seconds now.

• 53:39Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 53:40Speaker 02

  You know what I mean?

• 53:40Anthony Pompliano?

  That's true, that's true.

• 53:41Speaker 02

  So it's like, oh, that, like, the old model was essentially like, hey, we're working this song to radio right now. Like, this is your single, don't put out another song. Hey, we're, we're working this song right now, don't put out the album because there'll be too much, there's too many songs. And now it's just like, bro, each song is like buying a fucking piece of real estate. It's like a salesperson that goes out into the universe and maybe it's gonna garner a bunch more business. You know what I mean? Or maybe it won't. But for a small overhead cost, I can buy a property. Let's, my small overhead cost, because I'm doing a lot of it myself, it costs me four to five K to put out a song, execute a song and put it out, right? I'm making that in the first fucking two minutes on streams, when it goes out.

• 54:24Anthony Pompliano?

  How much money can you make on a stream? Like, what is like a general for an artist, whether you or somebody else?

• 54:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, this is, this is where, what I'm talking about independence and like, A lot of people are bitching about, and I understand where they're coming from, like, man, I made 300 million streams and it's, and it's only X amount of dollars, right? And it like feels like, because they're looking at it from the old model. First off, if my music wasn't stream capable, if it wasn't on streaming services, I'm getting, right now, I get monthly, monthly listeners, I could, I could even fucking show you. Monthly listeners, I think across Spotify and Apple is five, like 5.2 million listeners, right?

• 55:03Anthony Pompliano?

  That's a lot, like, like, unique people.

• 55:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, unique monthly listeners.

• 55:06Anthony Pompliano?

  That's fucking crazy.

• 55:07Speaker 02

  Right, but at the same time, like.

• 55:10Anthony Pompliano?

  And put that in context for people like Taylor Swift, Drake, like huge, huge names, how many do you think they get?

• 55:15Speaker 02

  I'm gonna, I'm gonna just pull it up, just, just to have it.

• 55:17Anthony Pompliano?

  Because, because when you start to think about not just like the number of plays, right? Not just the, uh, kind of views on YouTube, but actually the unique number of people, way more important number.

• 55:26Speaker 02

  70 million for Drake just on Spotify, so it's probably over 100 million monthly listeners across it. What I'm saying is, these are different type of listeners, these are different type of listeners than the people that would go and buy your album, you know what I mean? These are different type, I'll, I'll repeat it, these are different type, these are different types of listeners that would go to a store and fucking pay 10 bucks to buy your album. So what I'm saying is like, yeah, there's 100 million streams and yeah, you only made, you know, I don't know what that equates to, you can find out quite easily, but regardless, you wouldn't have got 100 millionth of those streams.

• 56:06Anthony Pompliano?

  Yep, yeah, yep.

• 56:07Speaker 02

  It's this ecosystem and the way music listening and consumption has transformed is like, there's a lot of people getting streams just by happenstance, just by people being in playlists or an algorithmic, hey, I'm just, I'll, all day in the store, we play this Spotify playlist and this stream, so it shouldn't be, I'm not really one of those artists who are a big contester of like the payout model, because.

• 56:32Anthony Pompliano?

  But can people make like, let's say that they don't have Only Steve's and like all the other stuff. Can an artist be mildly popular and make a living?

• 56:39Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 56:40Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. So it's not, um, it's like, I recently saw, uh, um, who was it? I think it was Daniel Cormier. Uh, he was talking about everyone's like, you know, UFC fighters don't get paid. And for sure, when you look at the numbers, you're like, damn, you know, they made this much. The fighters made this much. That don't seem very fair. But he's told the story about, uh, he went, he fought John Jones and, um, I think got paid like $300,000. He's got another $300,000 in sponsorships. And two days after the fight, Dana White called him up. He goes, hey, bro, we gonna, uh, give you an extra $400,000. Our champions need to make a million bucks. Right? That's not caught in the data anywhere. Right? And so it's like the UFC, and again, I'm not saying the UFC does that every time. I'm not saying that they should or shouldn't. It's just like, I'm assuming with the math of people say a hundred million streams equals his dollars. Like there's probably other things people are doing to make.

• 57:24Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. A hundred million. I'm just making sure this is the right number. I don't want to botch it. I know this is a numbers podcast, you know what I mean?

• 57:32Anthony Pompliano?

  Wait till he finds out we don't do public math on here.

• 57:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. So a hundred million streams on Spotify is about a quarter million dollars in, in income. The difference is I'm getting fucking lion's share. I don't have any hands in my pocket. When you do a fifth, a traditional record deal, that doesn't, what's 15% of 250? Plus you gotta play your manager. Plus you bought a house for your mom. Plus you have your overhead costs, your assistant, plus your producer splits, plus taxes. At the, at the end of it all, you know? So, you know, you can like a hundred million streams is a lot, you know? But at the same time, like, here's what I'm saying about the whole model that we're building, right?

• 58:16Speaker 02

  It needs to go this way. If you want to be a human artist in the next five to 10 years, you're going to have to have a focus group of your people who fuck with you. You can constantly marketing yourself in the digital world, you know? And it's going to get more and more digital world. And then you have to be able to bring them to this space and understand how to monetize them. And it is this subscription model in one way or another. It is for the artist because. I developed, like, I'm a bit of a unicorn because I was just, it's just the luck of my timing. You know what I mean? Like, I developed this fanbase over a decade of being truly authentic and working my ass off and just always giving free content to the point where now I'm comfortable saying, no,

• 58:57Speaker 02

  I'm gonna fucking, I'm gonna give y'all a bunch more content, but at this price. And, and I've earned that with them, you know what I mean? But there is gonna be an education learning curve happening, and it's happening already. It's just like, because other creators are doing it and making real livings. Comedians, I mean, there's some, like, there's some comedians making huge fucking bags, and they're not talking about it. And it's this-

• 59:22Anthony Pompliano?

  I know some of them, and they're fucking making a lot of money.

• 59:25Speaker 02

  And, and, bro, like, I'm, I'm, I'm kind of the guinea pig.

• 59:29Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 59:29Speaker 02

  I know-

• 59:29Anthony Pompliano?

  How big do you think you can get?

• 59:30Speaker 02

  I know what this did, bro, I'm, I'm, I'm doing six figures a month on subscription. I think it can go, I really think it can 5X in like a year or two.

• 59:39Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay, so, let, let's say that this works, like, let's take an artist who, uh, is on the come up, becoming more popular, uh, is smart about not just staying independent, getting stream money, built out of subscription, uh, we haven't even talked about you got some products and, and merch, like, all these other things that you've got where there are additional revenue streams to kind of feed back into this, right? Is it possible for an independent artist to make, I don't know, a million seems actually pretty feasible a month.

• 1:00:08Speaker 02

  It is.

• 1:00:08Anthony Pompliano?

  Could an artist make 10 million a month?

• 1:00:10Speaker 02

  If Drake did this right now, I don't even know, uh-

• 1:00:14Anthony Pompliano?

  Would he make more or less money than he's making?

• 1:00:16Speaker 02

  More. If he said, you know what, I'm pulling my shit from all this, you gotta subscribe, you can hear my whole fucking catalog and all my new shit, and I got a new album that's dropping on there. I don't know, bro, I, I really don't know, he could maybe make 100 million in a month.

• 1:00:29Anthony Pompliano?

  Bro, Elon Musk got, uh, on Twitter, I think he's got, said it like 2 bucks or something, uh, you know, the subscription thing, he's got like 25,000 people subscribed.

• 1:00:36Speaker 02

  He gets it.

• 1:00:37Anthony Pompliano?

  Right? And, and by the way, he didn't tweet it, he didn't do it, like, he just like, the bullet is just sitting on his profile.

• 1:00:42Speaker 02

  This is just where, like, there's just, there's this rumbling happening, it's underneath, and then, once it's at the surface, it just becomes the norm. It's happening, though, like, there's a rumbling happening, and it's building and building, it's gonna come to the surface where, like- The listener is gonna understand that like, yeah, like this is just, this is how I support my art. I support these, their lives and that's how I make the artists, that's how I make my consumers feel. Because it's the fucking truth. You know what I mean? Like, y'all are helping me support so I can make this music the way I am. If you, if this music touches you and has a role in your life, the reason I'm able to continue to do it this way and not sell my soul or have to do a record deal where my whole dynamic changes and maybe the art's never the same, which happens to a lot of artists when everything changes.

• 1:01:26Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? So it's kind of this agreement between the consumer and, you know, if you go back to like real true commerce and how it started is like, everyone would go to the fucking farmer's market and we'd barter. Hey, what are you good at? You make the best bread. I'll give you some money for that. Thank you. You know, like, and the baker's happy because he's doing what he loves and this person's happy because, you know, they're, they're getting the product they want. You know what I mean? So in the long run here, I really do think it serves the community, when the community being culture. It's just like, yo, find out what you're good at, figure out how to monetize it and guess what? Like, that number you're talking about?

• 1:02:08Speaker 02

  Do you know how many people, how many artists have like 2,000 people that really fuck with their music? 2,000 is a tiny number these days. You know what I mean? Because of streaming and the, it really gives you a ton of exposure. Like, to me, like Spotify taking the lion's share is just a tax because they're fucking giving, there's tons of, there's tons of like opportunity and just the exposure generated from being there and how the streams work. You know what I mean? So it's like, yeah, like if you got 2,000 people, my subscription's nine bucks a month.

• 1:02:42Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? That's a real fucking bag. We're talking about 20K a month. If I told most art, like, most artists are starving. You know what I mean?

• 1:02:50Anthony Pompliano?

  Four million dollars a year.

• 1:02:50Speaker 02

  They're getting fucking, they're like, yo, my song has 2 million streams, like, and that's fucking nothing. What is 2 million streams? 2 million streams is like,

• 1:02:59Anthony Pompliano?

  2 million is, uh,

• 1:03:01Speaker 02

  We need you.

• 1:03:02Anthony Pompliano?

  Probably like five grand, something like that.

• 1:03:03Speaker 02

  We need you, let's see.

• 1:03:04Anthony Pompliano?

  Bro, I just told you we don't do public math and now you ask me to do, do complex math.

• 1:03:10Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:03:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. 4,800.

• 1:03:13Anthony Pompliano?

  4,800?

• 1:03:14Speaker 02

  Yeah. So, so 2 million people consume that?

• 1:03:18Anthony Pompliano?

  By the way, the audience is shocked that I was even in the ballpark.

• 1:03:22Speaker 02

  Two, so, let's not, maybe 2 million streams isn't unique 2 million people. Let's, let's call it 800,000 people heard that song.

• 1:03:32Speaker 02

  Bring it back to 20,000 people that need to hear it and they're paying the subscription. And you're making 20 fucking bands a month. That is life-changing money for most artists, bro, I know, because I'm, I'm in the culture. I see like, it's very hard. I'm so, that's why I'm so.

• 1:03:48Anthony Pompliano?

  But that's just, but all you're talking about here is just the subscription revenue. And then. If you have 2,000 people that are willing to pay you nine bucks a month, they're also willing to buy your hat, your t-shirt. They're willing to show up to your show. They're willing to do this. They're willing to do that.

• 1:03:59Speaker 02

  Guess what? You can leverage it. So Stevenson Ranch, this is a big part of my business now. Like this one took off. This, I've been doing products and shit. So Stevenson Ranch, obviously, we call our friends Steve's. My house in LA was a fucking zoo. We called it Stevenson Ranch because it was like an open door, saloon door policy. Like you could push the door open, we'd let you in, you know, like, so we, our house was called Stevenson Ranch. And then we just, I was doing merch and we were starting to really work and I was like, yo, Stevenson Ranch. Like, we started building out the shit and it's like, it's really take, it's really taken off, has legs. We're doing seven figures, well over seven figures. It's our second year of doing it. You know what I mean? But what I'm saying is like, this marketplace idea, right?

• 1:04:42Speaker 02

  Right in that same marketplace, like, if you're in this club, you're getting exclusive hats. You're getting exclusive access. I'm gifting, every, every week I'm giving away signed hats, signed vinyls, thousands of dollars. So it's just this community where it's like, yeah, if I'm making six figures, I'm kicking back 10 to the fucking fans every time. It's just, I'm just looking at it as an overhead cost.

• 1:05:03Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, explain what you guys do, because I think we get five, $10,000 per month. You basically pick someone that's a subscriber.

• 1:05:09Speaker 02

  We do it, I'm, I'm in the process of translating into a foundation officially, because it just makes sense economically. But, but, you know, I'd say since we've started, we've kicked back just to our subscriber base, close to 100K. And it's anywhere from five, some days, some months, it's been 10 when something really bad happened. Basically what we do is make a post and we say.

• 1:05:32Anthony Pompliano?

  Who needs help?

• 1:05:32Speaker 02

  Who needs fucking help? You know what I mean? This month, like, let us know. Like, this week, let us know. We're giving away... The way we do it now is we give away a couple thousand a week. And, you know, last month, like, one of our real fans got in a horrific car accident and nearly died. We raised, you know, we donated personally, like, eight thousand to him, but we raised almost twenty with my buddy who's a philanthropist. But it's just this culture of like, man, these people are spending their hard-earned money. I know it's an ask. I know they're forward-thinking and taking the dive with me because this is rare. Like, no one... People subscribe nine, ten bucks a month to Spotify and they get all the songs in the world. I'm asking them to pay the same just to hear mine. So I understand that, but I'm offering so much service in it. You know what I mean? I'm really...

• 1:06:18Speaker 02

  You know, again, I might be a bit of a unicorn because I'm a podcaster and I know... We have these clothing things that are of value and I can add into it. Maybe you're not that person. Maybe you're not that type of artist, and that's okay. But what I'm doing is I'm leveraging the dope shit that people want that we have to offer, and I'm giving... It's all... It just feels like one big perk. Like, yeah, I'm in for nine bucks this month, which is the fucking cost of a fucking coffee. And there's a chance I come up on 2K. There's a chance I get the bundle. I'm hearing all this new music. I'm tuned into what Mike's doing. I'm hearing the... You know, it's just this commodity exchange that I think is actually closer to fair. You know what I mean? Where, you know, the artist is kind of getting hammered by the middleman in a lot of situations where these fans actually really fuck with the...

• 1:07:03Speaker 02

  Like, it's pretty easy for fans to feel connected to an artist when they... When you're an artist, music's the most powerful, universal language in the world. Like, you don't even have to know what the fucking words are saying. There doesn't have to be words, and it can speak to you.

• 1:07:16Anthony Pompliano?

  Dude, I see it. We have a email that I send every single day. It's my opinion on current events and financial markets or whatever. Once a week, I send it for free. And then, four days a week, I send it to an audience that pays. It's cheap, right? Depending on when they buy, whatever.

• 1:07:33Anthony Pompliano?

  The open rate is like 75% higher for the paid audience. Of course, they're paying for it, right? They're like, I want this. And it also, you're hitting them more times and they're getting connected. And then what I noticed is those people respond more, they engage more, they do all the stuff. And I learn more from them than I do from the larger audience. Right? Because I know, hey, this is a serious person, this is a person who is gonna take the time to write this email response back. Like, all the things you're saying, it's not just music, right? It's across society. It's almost like this leveling up of seriousness.

• 1:08:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:08Anthony Pompliano?

  Right? These are the more serious fans.

• 1:08:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:10Anthony Pompliano?

  And so if they're more serious, you're willing to give them more because you know they're serious. And in response, they're willing to engage more, right? Because they're partying with money for it.

• 1:08:19Speaker 02

  It's almost, it's almost one of the more daunting things about fame and celebrity that fucking ruins people. Like, it's why most celebrities go off the hinges. It's just so hard to have so much energy to face your way. Hey, can you give me this? Hey, can you sign this? Just nonstop, whether it's, you know, when you walk out of your house or whether you open your phone and it's never ending, people telling you their story. It can be draining, you know what I mean? So it's kind of the essence of like, a friend to everyone is a friend to no one. You know what I mean? Like, I'd rather really be with my dogs, who really get what the fuck's going on or are gonna either support me, give me truth, honesty. And when they can, like, I know, for the most part, you know, there can be bad apples, but I know the guys around me want me to fucking win.

• 1:09:04Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? And, and at the same thing, I want the fan, like, I want to know who the fans who really want me to fucking win are, and I want to play to them. Because I know how small the number is to really be a fucking millionaire and really live off your art and live in a peaceful state of not worrying about going to a fucking job you don't like and you don't care about. Which I think is, is really what we're dealing with right now is there is an industrial age. We're going into an intuitive age. We're in the information age right now, where there's so much information. It's gotta go back to intuition where, you know, like, we're kind of, what we're dealing with now are the results of an industrial age,

• 1:09:46Speaker 02

  where we indoctrinated the people of society to be fucking employees. And that breeds unhappiness. So when the society hits a tipping point where there's too much fucking unhappiness and there's no fulfillment on a broad scale from a human level, society implodes.

• 1:10:04Anthony Pompliano?

  If you ask people what their purpose is, I think that it is shocking to researchers, people who run these studies, whatever, how many people say, I don't know, right? Because if you think about, you know, hundreds of years ago, it basically was survive. Right at the end of the day, it was feed my family, you know, do this, do this, whatever. But like you were so self-reliant that you didn't have the ability to try to create impact or do this. It was like, I gotta make sure the crops are here. I gotta make sure my family is physically safe, right? We don't freeze to death in the winter, like all these things. If you go back, um, throughout maybe the 50s, 60s, 70s, right? There was people who were, yeah, they had a job or whatever, but like the generalization would be like, you know, the hippies, right? It was like they were, they were seeking something

• 1:10:47Anthony Pompliano?

  higher or whatever. And you kind of follow and each kind of generation has something different. But right now, actually, there's an entire generation of people who are being defined by the lack of purpose.

• 1:10:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:59Anthony Pompliano?

  And it's kind of like, I don't know if it's the TikTok Instagram stuff where you're just like doom scrolling. I don't know if it's, uh, you're just going and, you know, you're sitting under fluorescent lights all day long. You're just like, yo, I hope that my fucking boss doesn't see that I took an extra 20 minute lunch break, you know, or whatever. But just like that lack of, uh, purpose and freedom and autonomy and all this stuff.

• 1:11:19Speaker 02

  Kind of what we're speaking to.

• 1:11:20Anthony Pompliano?

  Kills people.

• 1:11:20Speaker 02

  So what we're, what we're speaking to really, this whole thing is just like,

• 1:11:26Speaker 02

  we're kind of, in a way, society as a whole, especially in America, we're kind of experiencing what it, what it feels like to be rich. And let me explain. Not like, rich people, like, my outlook on life is like, no matter where you are, it's, it's all perspective and lens. So no matter where you are, there's, there's going to be ups, downs, highs, lows, problems to solve, issues from the heart, whatever, these things that you have to navigate for your human experience. You know what I mean? So. Right now comparatively to what you're talking about in the 50s and 60s where it's about survival and just making sure that like your wife and your kids are like gonna stay alive and be healthy and like have a fruitful life, maybe be able to procreate and continue the family

• 1:12:09Speaker 02

  name. Now we're rich, we're gluttonous. We got all the info. We could talk to anyone in the world. I could watch a girl, if I fucking am addicted to sex, I could watch it all day. You know what I mean? If I, if I want like anything, you know what I mean? So we're so gluttonous that it feels, it almost breeds this feeling of like you're constantly looking outside of yourself. You're just constantly distracted, everything external like that, that, her, and it's like no one is getting in tune with themselves. That's why I'm so high on the spirituality. I'm not religious per se, but I know what it did to me when I went inward. I don't go out anymore, bro. Like you got me out of the house because I

• 1:12:52Speaker 02

  respect you. I don't leave my fucking house. Like, because I know it's all within me.

• 1:12:57Anthony Pompliano?

  I also think it's like, um, there's an easy life, right? So, uh, people got very upset when I said this, but whatever, I said it and I believe it, is that, uh, if you spend hours of your day scrolling on your phone, you have the easiest fucking life ever, right? Because, uh, it, it goes online a lot. I don't know if you saw the 50 cent, um, uh, viral video where he was like, depression's a luxury. And people were like, yo, like that's, that's out of bounds. You're not allowed to say that, right? And he's like, no, you, you guys don't understand, right? He's like, I'm not saying depression's not real. He's just saying where I came from, no one had time to think about that shit. He's like, cause they had three jobs and they were trying to eat, right? And he's like, that's not good, bad, whatever. It's just like, it's a luxury when you look at it from that perspective.

• 1:13:40Anthony Pompliano?

  Same thing with like the doom scrolling. If you're, if you go in your phone, go in the settings and look at how much time spent on all these fucking apps. If you're on Instagram for two hours a day, you got a soft life. It's not wrong.

• 1:13:51Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:13:51Anthony Pompliano?

  It's just 150 years ago.

• 1:13:53Speaker 02

  It's not your fault. We're now, just like our parents were indoctrinated to. Ring the bell, go to work. That's what school was like.

• 1:14:00Anthony Pompliano?

  Yes.

• 1:14:01Speaker 02

  We had to create employees. They were indoctrinated into this, why they don't understand how we're working in the information age. It's the same thing, you know what I mean? Now, the new set of, what I meant by like, we're all kind of rich. Like, we're rich with info and access and.

• 1:14:15Anthony Pompliano?

  Correct.

• 1:14:15Speaker 02

  You know what I mean?

• 1:14:16Anthony Pompliano?

  End time.

• 1:14:16Speaker 02

  So it's like, yeah, and it's like what rich people deal with. Like, I know rich kids who were born rich and they're fucked. Cause they don't, you know what I mean? They've always had the access. It's never gone anywhere. There was almost nothing, nowhere to go. You know what I mean? And it was a part of me, like, coming into some, some financial success and also achieving some goals, like. I went into this spiritual aspect of my life, like I told you, I felt like I was losing presence. And I had things that I yearned for and it didn't fucking mean anything. You know what I mean? And like, that's what I mean. I don't want to sound like.

• 1:14:50Anthony Pompliano?

  Chasing the ghost.

• 1:14:50Speaker 02

  I don't want to sound like a hippie about it, but like, that's what I mean by going inward is just like, take some time because we're indoctrinated to fucking be comparing ourselves. We're indoctrinated to be looking outside because there's always something to see. So that's why I limit myself and I limit my access going outside. I, I limit my, I have timers on my phone, like, no more.

• 1:15:12Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:12Speaker 02

  Because I'll find myself in a less grateful, more anxious, ooh, should I go somewhere? Maybe I could go to dinner tonight and we should go to fucking Poppy Steakhouse. And like, I don't give a fuck about that shit, you know what I mean? But if you're out, if you're fucking watching it, ooh, looks good, steak looks good, there's celebrities, ooh, it'd be cool to be there, you know? And it's just like, you know, this purpose discussion is, it's really becoming bigger and bigger. And like you said, it's a, it's a, it's alarming how many people feel as though they don't because the purpose is being here.

• 1:15:44Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:45Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? The purpose is being here and just trying to manage navigating your human experience. Manage now, be here now, the purpose will reveal itself. But who's to say your purpose isn't just.

• 1:15:59Speaker 02

  Being here and maybe impacting your wife's life positively, your kids' life. What is bigger than that? When you walk out the room, what do your boys say about you? What's bigger than that? It's because everyone else, we want more, you know what I mean? Because we're looking at everybody else and all the things they have and all the highlights, you know? If our parents grew up in this age, they'd be going through the same fucking thing. You know what I mean?

• 1:16:21Anthony Pompliano?

  They're jealous. I could talk to you for hours. Where can we send people? There's a bunch of people who probably are watching this or listening to this. They love the story, they love kind of how you guys are innovating in the business. I've never heard the music before, so maybe where can we send people if they want to listen?

• 1:16:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I'm that douchebag that has one, a very, very strange artist name. It's literally Mike. So I went from an incredibly douchey name, Mike Stud, and even somehow got douchier and just went Mike. But, you know, Mike Stud-

• 1:16:49Anthony Pompliano?

  You'll be more wild than Mike Stud?

• 1:16:51Speaker 02

  Mike, yeah, Mike Stud was like, I literally, I didn't, I didn't think I was gonna be a musician. And I'll give you, just, we'll end on this, like, my, I went to Duke. Do you remember the Duke lacrosse scandal?

• 1:17:03Anthony Pompliano?

  Yes, I remember it very well.

• 1:17:04Speaker 02

  I went there right in the heels of that.

• 1:17:06Anthony Pompliano?

  I went to high school, I grew up in Raleigh, North Carolina, and so was in high school while that was going on.

• 1:17:10Speaker 02

  I didn't know you grew up from Raleigh.

• 1:17:11Anthony Pompliano?

  And for people who don't know, the Duke lacrosse scandal was probably one of the most controversial things in that part of the country-

• 1:17:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:19Anthony Pompliano?

  -for 18 months.

• 1:17:20Speaker 02

  Here I come trotting in with my fucking backpack thinking it's gonna, you know, and-

• 1:17:25Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, here's the Duke athlete.

• 1:17:26Speaker 02

  I made it to Duke, like, I made, you know, and then like, they're on almost like a lockdown. So they don't allow us to have social media at that time. I'm dating myself, I'm aging myself here. I think they only had Facebook and Twitter was just starting. This was, yeah, 2010 or something like that, whatever, whatever it was. So we all came up, our coach was a hard ass, and he's like, yo, no social media, like, essentially what they were doing was like, they were trapping Duke athletes online. Like, they'd have a pretty girl and like, friend requests you, that you'd accept her friend request, and then it would be somebody trying to smear Duke athletes, so like underage drinkers and stuff. And it was just, they were attacking Duke athletes for a period of time when we got, we first got there. So we all came up with fake Facebook names.

• 1:18:08Speaker 02

  So we could have it still and and our theme was porn star names with our real initials. So mine was the no br- I had the best one on the team. It was Mike Stud. Like I was like, so that actually stuck as a nickname to my teammates. And it was like, we hated our coach. He was a fucking asshole. So they would, we would always call each other by our code names and he wouldn't know what was going on. You know what I mean? So that's why Mike Stud existed. When I made a song, I was just a Duke baseball player and that's, that was the obvious name to go with. I didn't want to use my real name. I didn't think I was going to be an artist. Anyways, we got off track, but.

• 1:18:40Anthony Pompliano?

  That's an incredible story.

• 1:18:41Speaker 02

  Yeah. So, so then it works. And it was like, man, I don't even know if it would have worked without the name. I think the name was a big part of it. It was like polarizing. You hated it or you loved it.

• 1:18:50Anthony Pompliano?

  Yep.

• 1:18:51Speaker 02

  As I, as I matured and then this became real and real and real. And then I also understood there was a ceiling. I was, I was in the game and taking these meetings. There was a ceiling to being Mike Stud because he was the college douchey athlete. Oh, isn't that that college pitcher? Oh yeah, that's cool. Like no one wanted to take it. There was a ceiling there. So the rebrand, my business people at the time were like, you're crazy. Like this is making money. Like changing names right now, you might, you could go to zero, you know? And I just knew, like, I knew it couldn't be Mike Stud. I knew the music I was making was different. I knew who I was becoming as a man. Mike Stud would be a lie to be that still, you know? So I changed it to Mike, period.

• 1:19:33Speaker 02

  And the period is just like very significant. It's one to differentiate it a little bit because Mike's like the most common fucking name ever. But also, you know, the end, this is the end of the story. It was Mike Seander, the baseball player. There's Mike Stud, the, you know, college rapper and Mike, the creative entrepreneur, you know? Figured out a way of navigating, bringing this into my adult life, you know? But really long winded answer, long winded answer.

• 1:19:57Anthony Pompliano?

  Well, if, if you can own the name Mike, pretty good spot to be.

• 1:20:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. So, so social media, it's, it's at Just Mike, J U S T M I K E. Because everyone says Mike who? And you say it's Just Mike. You know what I mean? Everyone, I see it all the time. Like, what's your artist name? Like, Mike. They're like, Mike, Mike who? Mike what? You know, it's Just Mike. So I thought about, I thought about being my artist name Just Mike, but then I thought it would be better. It's just, it's better to be Mike.

• 1:20:25Anthony Pompliano?

  Hundred percent.

• 1:20:26Speaker 02

  If you want to just listen to the music, you just go to any of the streaming platforms, just type in Mike, period. Or Mike, I think will just pop up.

• 1:20:34Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. Thank you for doing this. We'll definitely do it again in the future.

• 1:20:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure. It was great to meet you, man. This was a blast.