#1125 Saad Alam On How to Optimize Your Body’s Hormones

Saad Alam is the Co-Founder & CEO of Hone Health. In this conversation, we discuss alarming lowered testosterone rates, how to optimize your body, daily health protocols, bringing your body back into balance, age appropriate approaches, and living a longer & healthier life. ======================= Arculus knows a thing or three about security. Your assets are accessible through 3-factor authentication and by using the Arculus Wallet App and Arculus Key Card. Your keys are generated and encrypted on the Arculus secure element, rated CC EAL6+. This means you – and only you - own your keys and therefore, your crypto. Keep your digital assets secure and safe from exchange freezes, bankruptcies, and hacks with Arculus. Save 20% through 12/10 with promo code POMP ======================= With a Messari Pro subscription, you gain access to exclusive industry-leading long-form daily research reports, daily crypto news & insights in your inbox, advanced asset screeners, curated sets of charts and metrics and so much more. Try Messari Pro today! Get up to 25% off their Messari Pro membership by visiting www.messari.io/pro and entering promo code "POMP" at checkout. ======================= Amberdata provides the critical data infrastructure enabling financial institutions to participate in the digital asset class. We deliver comprehensive data and insights into blockchain networks, crypto markets, and decentralized finance. Download our Digital Asset Data Guide at https://www.amberdata.io/pomp ======================= Valour (formerly DeFi Technologies) represents what’s next in the digital economy -- providing simplified, trusted access to crypto, decentralized finance and Web 3.0 investment opportunities. Institutions and investors can gain diversified, secure, compliant, and easily tradable access to a diversified set of industry-leading equity products and protocols, through a single stock purchase on a regulated exchange. Currently listed on U. S. (OTC: DEFTF) and Canadian (NEO:DEFI) exchanges. For more information or to subscribe to receive company updates and financial information, visit our website at valour.com ======================= This episode is brought to you by Eight Sleep. The Eight Sleep Pod is a tech layer that fits onto your mattress like a fitted sheet. The Pod dynamically cools and heats each side of the bed, to maintain the optimal sleeping temperature for what your body needs. With the Pod, you can start sleeping as cool as 55°F or as hot as 110°F. The result: Clinical data shows that Eight Sleep users experience up to 34% more deep sleep. Go to eightsleep.com/pomp for exclusive holiday savings and ring in the most wonderful time of night. Eight Sleep currently ships within the USA, Canada, the UK, select countries in the EU, and Australia. ======================= Exodus is leading the world out of the traditional financial system by building beautiful and user-friendly blockchain products. With its focus on design and user experience, Exodus has become one of the most popular and loved cryptocurrency apps. It’s supported on both desktop and mobile, allowing you to sync your wallet across multiple devices so you can have access to your funds anywhere. Visit exodus.com/pomp for your free download or search Exodus on the App Store or Playstore. =======================

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Anthony Pompliano?

  What's up everyone? This is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, simply the best podcast out there. Now let's kick this thing off. Saad Alam is the co-founder and CEO of Hone Health. In this conversation, we talk about why testosterone levels in America have been falling off a cliff, what you can do to understand how to optimize your body, what various protocols on a day-to-day basis could be for you, and also if you can get your body back in balance, what the benefits could be, both in terms of the quality of your life, but also the length of the life that you live. I really enjoyed this conversation with Saad. I hope you guys enjoy it as well. Once you get done listening, jump on Twitter and let us know what you liked, what you didn't like, what you agree with,

• 0:44Anthony Pompliano?

  and what you disagree with. I always appreciate the feedback and I learn a lot from all of you. All right, let's get in this episode with Saad. I hope you guys like this one.

• 0:51Speaker 01

  Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

• 1:15Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, guys. Bang, bang. Got Saad here with me. I thought a great place to start would be the problem. Testosterone levels in America are plummeting. I've seen all kinds of crazy stats. It's like 50% less testosterone every 20 years or whatever it ends up being. Why is testosterone dropping so aggressively in America?

• 1:32Speaker 02

  All right. So it's not a straightforward answer. And honestly, it's going to sound a little bit conspiratorial. But the reality is that the scientific community is actually all now believing that this is the real reason. So when you look at all the plastics, the fertilizers, the folates, the PCBs in our food and our drinking water, deodorants we use, shampoos we put on our head, for a man, they get into our bodies and they resemble these estrogenic compounds. Now, the way our body works is these estrogenic compounds, they kind of hit this pituitary gland in our head, which is like a, we'll call it like a thermostat for our hormones. And it says there's too much estrogen in our body, and that tells our bodies to actually stop. Normal or what we call endogenous testosterone production.

• 2:13Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay, so let's go to science class. I'm an idiot. You're an expert at this, whether you want to admit it or not. When I think of testosterone, estrogen is the antithesis.

• 2:24Speaker 02

  Opposite, opposite.

• 2:26Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. What is the relationship? So when we say there's too much estrogen, the body believes there's too much estrogen. Why is it stopping testosterone production?

• 2:35Speaker 02

  Wonderful question. And actually, most people never ask that. They just take it at face value.

• 2:38Anthony Pompliano?

  Because they want to seem smart. I just know I'm an idiot.

• 2:42Speaker 02

  Idiot's a strong word. I'm on your podcast and I'm excited as all hell to be here. Let's get that straight. So here's what ends up happening. When you have testosterone produced in your body, it, we'll call it, converts into two things. One thing it converts into is to DHT. Most people know DHT is that little molecule that attaches onto your hair follicles and makes you go bald if you're susceptible to male pattern baldness. The other thing is it converts into estrogen. So if your body thinks there's too much estrogen, or let me say that differently, if your mind thinks there's too much estrogen in your body, it's going to say, well, I know I get estrogen because I take testosterone and convert it. So let me stop producing as much testosterone in my body.

• 3:23Anthony Pompliano?

  Interesting. So if it stops the testosterone production, is a silver lining that people who would be prone to losing their hair won't lose their hair as fast?

• 3:35Speaker 02

  You are, that is a very nice way to look at the problem. And I think that the way to look at it is you may have some guys that are not losing their hair as fast. But on the flip side, you got a bunch of guys that are depressed, that don't have energy, that can't focus, they can't concentrate, they're gaining weight faster, their libido is gone. And when you think about the downstream effects of all those things, it really messes with our psyche, right? Because so much of our personality is about providing and being there and being masculine.

• 4:03Anthony Pompliano?

  So testosterone, it basically provides all the things you just said, focus, energy, libido, like all these different things. When somebody goes and gets their testosterone tested, what is the like average male in America's testosterone level today? And was it twice as high 20 years ago, 10 years ago, five years ago? Like, how fast is the problem exacerbating?

• 4:25Speaker 02

  So the way to look at it, it's a very difficult answer for me to tell you what is the average testosterone level for a man in America.

• 4:35Speaker 02

  Let's say that the way to look at testosterone is there's usually what I'll call, there's a range. The top of that range is 900 nanograms per deciliter. At the bottom of that range is 300 nanograms per deciliter. And so long as you're somewhere in there, most people say that you're okay. The reality, though, is you should be higher if you're younger and you should be lower if you're older. And most physicians generally say, if you're in there, I don't care if you're 33 years old and you have a 300 nanograms per deciliter testosterone level, you're fine. When the reality is you should probably be more like 700. But that being said, because I know that I'm getting a little bit deep here, the average testosterone level has gone down by 26% over the past three decades,

• 5:16Speaker 02

  not just in the US, globally. Now, here's another number that's crazy. Over the past three decades, sperm count has gone down by 50%. 50. I mean, those are massive numbers.

• 5:27Anthony Pompliano?

  Those are very, very big numbers. Relationship between testosterone and sperm count is?

• 5:33Speaker 02

  Also a little bit more nuanced, but generally, this is the way to think about it. If you have the right testosterone level, not an elevated testosterone level, the right testosterone level for your body, testosterone goes into your testes and tells these things called your Sertoli cells to produce more sperm. So generally, if you have enough testosterone, you produce more sperm. If your testosterone is too low, you may not produce enough sperm.

• 5:57Anthony Pompliano?

  If your testosterone is too high, do you not produce enough or do you produce too much?

• 6:01Speaker 02

  Also, a little bit of a nuanced answer. If you were using testosterone from an exogenous means, meaning like shooting-

• 6:09Anthony Pompliano?

  Nailed it.

• 6:10Speaker 02

  Shooting-

• 6:11Anthony Pompliano?

  Indo-exo.

• 6:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:14Anthony Pompliano?

  I used Google this morning.

• 6:15Speaker 02

  Can we get this man a PhD?

• 6:19Speaker 02

  What basically ends up happening is your body says, oh, my God, there's too much testosterone in my body. Let me also shut down normal production. And so then you start stop producing as much sperm. So very often, when guys go on testosterone for a prolonged period of time, their sperm counts are reduced. I'm actually one of those individuals. You know how much sperm I have?

• 6:40Anthony Pompliano?

  That's a weird question, but no. No one's ever asked me that before.

• 6:44Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 6:45Anthony Pompliano?

  How much?

• 6:45Speaker 02

  Zero.

• 6:46Anthony Pompliano?

  Zero?

• 6:46Speaker 02

  And I'd also like you to know this too. In your office over there,

• 6:49Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 6:49Speaker 02

  I have special medication that I inject to improve my sperm.

• 6:52Anthony Pompliano?

  Really?

• 6:52Speaker 02

  I dead serious. My girl in here trying to have a baby.

• 6:54Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, so hold on a second. Explain why you don't have any sperm.

• 6:58Speaker 02

  Okay, so let me, I'm actually in a little bit deep here. Just so I can make sure I draw the full loop. So what ends up happening is you have this pituitary gland in your head. Your pituitary gland sends this hormone called LH, also known as luteinizing hormone, down to your testes. And you have these cells in your testes called these Leydig cells. Leydig cells, they see the LH and they go, guess what? Produce as much testosterone as you can.

• 7:21Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay, so mine sends a signal to your balls.

• 7:24Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 7:24Anthony Pompliano?

  And is like, produce sperm.

• 7:26Speaker 02

  Boom.

• 7:26Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 7:27Speaker 02

  No, produce testosterone.

• 7:28Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 7:28Speaker 02

  Produce testosterone. The testosterone tells another set of cells to produce sperm.

• 7:33Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 7:34Speaker 02

  But if I give your body too much testosterone from the outside, that thermostat in your brain goes, whoa, way too much testosterone. And the signal to my balls to produce testosterone, which then produces sperm, that basically goes away.

• 7:48Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay, that makes sense.

• 7:49Speaker 02

  So I take testosterone because I've been through this problem. That's why I was inspired to start the company. And because of that, my sperm count is literally zero. And so now I take another medication that basically tells my brain to produce more LH to tell my balls, produce more.

• 8:05Anthony Pompliano?

  Produce sperm.

• 8:05Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 8:06Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay, so what's interesting to me about the human body, which is like, we're fucking awesome. Is that our bodies are trying to regulate between these things. It doesn't want too much, doesn't want too little, wants kind of just right. And that is true of testosterone, that's true of estrogen, that's true of LH, or like all these different things. It's trying to figure out like, stay within these kind of extreme bands or bands or whatever. And one of the things that I've read about and spent a lot of time with the folks already asleep and they've taught me about is that like, sleep is almost a period where the body like kind of re-regulates and tries to get into what I would consider the normal ranges.

• 8:49Anthony Pompliano?

  Let's start there as like, that's natural, right? What's going on when you're sleeping that's helping to regulate some of these hormones? And like, why is it that if I don't sleep that much, I'm like a fucking frantic mess? And like, everyone's like, holy shit, my life sucks. If you sleep a ton, you wake up, you're just like, I am zen. Life is good. Like, what's going on with the sleep stuff?

• 9:11Speaker 02

  Also, deep question, right? So the easiest way to say it is, when you sleep for a prolonged period of time, your body's able to send, well, actually say, go through a series of different processes where it's cleaning itself out, both in its brain and your body. And then your body's basically able to regulate itself, right? So if you think about it, when we wake up, there's this part of ourselves that's having the conversation, that's completely with the conversation. Then there's another part of our body that's saying, hey, I want your heart to beat right. I want to make sure that all these different processes in your bodies are occurring without you ever knowing about it. And the reality is when you don't sleep for a prolonged period of time, your body doesn't give that other part of yourself, the ability to basically say, I want you to heal and

• 9:56Speaker 02

  I want you to regenerate. And the reality is that when you think about why testosterone levels are low, it's a little bit more multifaceted than just, we'll call it folates and PCBs. You also look at people are sleeping less. They're looking at their phones right before they go to sleep. They're consuming a ton of blue light. That messes with your REM sleep, that messes with your deep sleep. That means your body doesn't have the chance to go and kind of like re-engineer itself while you're sleeping anymore, right? Literally, I am, right? I've got an Oura ring, I've got one of these wonderful Whoop bands. I don't know if, you know, Mateo's down here in Miami. I've got an Eight Sleep mattress. I am constantly thinking about how to make myself sleep as good as I possibly can. Cause arguably, all this other stuff we're doing, it's actually literally useless if you don't do two, three things.

• 10:39Speaker 02

  You don't sleep better, you don't drink enough water, sounds silly. And the other thing is if you just don't reduce the stress in your life.

• 10:45Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. How much water do you drink a day?

• 10:47Speaker 02

  Two liters.

• 10:48Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 10:49Speaker 02

  I drink, I drink two of these. I literally get up in the morning, this is gonna sound crazy, I will chug one of these in the morning, first thing.

• 10:55Anthony Pompliano?

  That's one liter?

• 10:56Speaker 02

  Straight down. This is actually a liter and a half.

• 10:58Anthony Pompliano?

  So when you chug a liter, let's say, or a liter and a half, you mentioned plastics earlier. I have a plastic water bottle right here. I feel like every time I drink, I don't know. 75% of the time, maybe not every time, but like 75% of the time, it's like I have a plastic water bottle. Should I stop doing that?

• 11:16Speaker 02

  You should stop doing that. And you should.

• 11:18Anthony Pompliano?

  But you're doing it.

• 11:19Speaker 02

  I am traveling and it's because that my, my, my, my glass water bottle is on my bed because there's a very high probability if I brought it, because like most men, I would lose it.

• 11:30Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. So like you'll do it when you need to, but the ideal scenario is that you don't actually drink out of the plastic bottles as much as possible.

• 11:36Speaker 02

  Yep. Or microwave things out of plastic containers. That's another big one.

• 11:40Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay. What is that? Like literally, if I just have a plastic container and I put it in the microwave, that's bad?

• 11:44Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 11:45Anthony Pompliano?

  Why?

• 11:46Speaker 02

  Same exact thing. Plastics are heating up. They're getting into your food, right? Like here's the rally, right? I do a lot of meal prep because I like eating very healthy.

• 11:52Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 11:53Speaker 02

  At first I used to have, we'll call it six different meals over the course of a day, putting these little plastic trays, trays could get them off Amazon. Maybe they're like a quarter a piece, cheapest plastic in the world. I throw them in the microwave for two minutes. All of a sudden they're heating up and all that plastic is in my food.

• 12:08Anthony Pompliano?

  That's not good.

• 12:09Speaker 02

  No, it's horrible.

• 12:10Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay. So when you measure your testosterone, pre-starting a testosterone optimization company is how it started. And then we'll talk about kind of how you guys have evolved over time. What was like, what were you seeing as like, hey, this is a problem?

• 12:25Speaker 02

  So.

• 12:28Speaker 02

  It's scary, right? So the first thing that started happening.

• 12:31Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. I don't want to have this conversation. This scares the shit out of me. Just so everyone's clear. Like the reason I wanted to talk to you is like, I'm like, this seems like a big problem. No one's really talking about it.

• 12:38Speaker 02

  Well, we'll talk about why it's so stigmatized. We'll talk about why it's so damaging to a guy. And interestingly, you're 34, almost 35 years old. And my problem started right when I was 35.

• 12:46Anthony Pompliano?

  Perfect. I can't wait.

• 12:48Speaker 02

  Well, no, the best thing is I didn't have a solution. Now you have a solution.

• 12:51Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. Okay.

• 12:52Speaker 02

  And even better yet, you know, you know, the company.

• 12:54Anthony Pompliano?

  Yes.

• 12:55Speaker 02

  So the first thing that started happening, right? And let me give you this background.

• 12:58Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 12:58Speaker 02

  I'm insanely healthy. I've always been insanely healthy. I've worked out five days, six days a week for the past 25 years of my life. I eat perfectly. I meditate twice a day, literally in my office, like yours here, infrared sauna, hyperbaric oxygen chamber, cold plunge. I'm going to go cold plunge with a guy after this. That sounds weird.

• 13:21Anthony Pompliano?

  Never at the beginning of a podcast is about cold plunging with a guy and how much sperm you have.

• 13:24Speaker 02

  It happened. It happened. And it's informative.

• 13:27Anthony Pompliano?

  But like, you're even doing this when you're traveling. So obviously it's important to you.

• 13:30Speaker 02

  Well, you know what's interesting? I'm going to meet with a friend that's been a very successful entrepreneur. I'm also raising capital. So we're gonna go have that conversation. And rather than go have drinks and go to like a traditional restaurant, it's let's go hit a sauna, let's go cold plunge, let's go do these new protocols that are in place that people have been doing. And so then it's now let's have a conversation about health and wellness. You live that life. Like I said, I just turned 40, feel like I'm in my twenties. I work out like I'm in my twenties. And frankly, like, that's the life I want to continue living. Getting back to your point, though. Your point was?

• 14:03Anthony Pompliano?

  When you think about your testosterone levels.

• 14:06Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 14:07Anthony Pompliano?

  Like, where were you when you're like, I have to solve this problem?

• 14:10Speaker 02

  First thing is, when I turned 35, all of a sudden, I could start to feel my energy level was starting to fade a little bit. I wasn't getting up, popping up at 6 o'clock in the morning, wanting to run to the gym. All of a sudden, right around noon, I started to probably sit down, lay down, maybe I napped a couple of times. By 6 o'clock, I was completely burnt out, which is the opposite of my personality. Then, all of a sudden, I noticed my mental acuity start to slow down, right? I could do very complex mathematical equations in my head, always had been able to do, always had a perfect recall of things. And all of a sudden, I was struggling to think about like, man, what's that thing from yesterday? And that guy's name? And that happened. Then I started to gain weight, right? And we hate

• 14:53Speaker 02

  it when it happens, but you get those wonderful love handles, some people call muffin tops. And no matter what I did, wouldn't go away. Then the straw that really broke the camel's back, libido is gone. So then I started having conversations with my girl where it sounds like, hey, baby, it's not you. It's really me. And then it's like, no, you're cheating on me. I was like, I swear to you, there's no cheating. I love you. I'm gonna marry you. But there's something else.

• 15:15Anthony Pompliano?

  Listen, I have focus on my energy, and now you're mad at me.

• 15:19Speaker 02

  Which, let's be honest, that's worse than a mom.

• 15:21Anthony Pompliano?

  Yes.

• 15:22Speaker 02

  Because when your girl is mad at you.

• 15:23Anthony Pompliano?

  Yes.

• 15:23Speaker 02

  Oof, the world falls apart. Now, the scary thing, though, is, right? My father started suffering from chronic conditions right around the same time. And that was the beginning of type 2 diabetes, type 1 diabetes, kidney disease, multiple strokes. And so I had this in the back of my head, which is, I'd finally just sold a company, right? I thought I should have been on top of the world. And now, all of a sudden, I'm like, holy crap, my body's starting to fall apart. And then you start thinking to yourself, is this the beginning of the end? Am I less of a man? Will I be able to take care of my family? Will I be able to accomplish all the things I want? And that seed of doubt, that seed of doubt is what's so scary. Because it turns into like the self-defeating negative feedback cycle that no one wants in their life.

• 16:05Speaker 02

  Because then you just constantly sit there and it gnaws at you over and over. So I go to my primary care doctor, who's a concierge-level doc. I say, hey, look, something's really wrong with me. He has me go do my blood. He brings me back. And this motherfucker, sorry, can I say that?

• 16:20Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, you can say whatever you want.

• 16:21Speaker 02

  This motherfucker says, you know what's odd? You are a shining example of health. You look great. Looks like you take care of yourself. But you know, Middle Eastern men, they tend to age a little bit faster. So this is probably just the beginning of old age. And because you're so obsessive, I think you have some millennial existential angst. And maybe I should give you an SSRI and you should go see a therapist. And I was like, are you fucking crazy? That was literally, I was like, that's, that is what top-quality healthcare in this country looks like. Absolutely not. And that's where like this journey began, man. I started seeing doctor after doctor. I saw about a dozen doctors over six months. And I finally met a group of hormone optimization regenerative physicians. And they looked at, looked at the same blood work. And they were like, oh, my God, you have the testosterone levels of an 80-year-old man.

• 17:06Anthony Pompliano?

  So what, all right, so these folks, you said a hormone optimization regenerative?

• 17:12Speaker 02

  Physician.

• 17:12Anthony Pompliano?

  Physician, all right. What do they do? That sounds like some shit I need. What do those guys do?

• 17:17Speaker 02

  They help you live forever.

• 17:19Anthony Pompliano?

  Perfect. Perfect.

• 17:23Anthony Pompliano?

  When they're looking at the blood work, are they looking at the same things? Like, are they putting just as much importance on the same things? They just know what to do with it that maybe a regular doctor doesn't?

• 17:31Speaker 02

  So going back to that comment about the range, right? Most physicians, God bless all of them, because they've saved so many lives. When they go to medical school, they're very often just said, taught, if it's within range, which comes back from the lab, patient's fine.

• 17:48Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it.

• 17:48Speaker 02

  When the reality, though, is I had a 280 nanograms per deciliter.

• 17:53Anthony Pompliano?

  That's below the 300, bottom of the range.

• 17:55Speaker 02

  Below the 300, bottom of the range, but the lab that that physician went to had their range at 180.

• 18:02Anthony Pompliano?

  Ah, so you're within the range of some random lab, but maybe not in the range of what a young person should have had?

• 18:07Speaker 02

  Yep, and let me complicate this. Every lab uses a different analyzer, and every analyzer has its own range. Even LabCorp uses different analyzers, and they have different ranges based upon which lab you go to. And the reality is that there's so much nuance within that range. And for a 35-year-old man, going back to the comment I made, I should have had a 700 or a 750, when the reality is I was sitting at 280. And at one point, it actually went even lower than that. And so they looked at it, and they've said, very easily understand what's happening here.

• 18:37Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay. Problem, alarm goes off, they're like, yo, this shit's bad. What do they tell you to do? So before you go on your own journey, what do they tell you you should do?

• 18:48Speaker 02

  So the first thing is that I would tell anyone to. Are you sleeping right? Because if you're not sleeping right, you are causing all kinds of harms for your body. Do you have a ton of stress in your life? Are you smoking? Are you drinking alcohol? Don't drink alcohol. Are you eating a healthy diet full of, we'll call it like, healthy grains rather than non-refined carbohydrates? Easy stuff, right? That people should just be doing every single day? Are you doing hardcore compound exercises like deadlifts and squats? Those things also help increase testosterone. I was doing all of those things. And so for them-

• 19:26Anthony Pompliano?

  And you still had low testosterone?

• 19:28Speaker 02

  Still had low testosterone.

• 19:29Anthony Pompliano?

  All right.

• 19:30Speaker 02

  So that's when they said, for us, the answer is very easy. And here's the other thing they said that made me feel super comfortable. They said a majority of their patients are younger guys just like me. And that's actually the thing that had the alarm go off in my head that said, whoa, is this really a big problem? Here's a kicker. Forty percent of men, forty, over thirty-five, suffer from hormonal imbalances and low testosterone. And no one's willing to talk about it.

• 19:55Anthony Pompliano?

  Why won't they talk about it?

• 19:59Speaker 02

  One, everyone thinks when they're thirty-five or forty, they just start to slow down. They saw their father slow down around that age. They all just believe that it's a normal part of life. Two, who do you go and tell that you feel like less of a man? Who do you go and say, hey, I might have some ED or my dick's not working? Or who do you go and tell and say, look, I just don't have as much excitement for my life? And the reality is that most guys, when they go to their primary care physicians, which is the same thing that I did, their doctor says the same thing, there's nothing wrong with you. Oh, we don't need to check your testosterone. Oh, by the way, let me just give you an SSRI. The amount of hormone imbalances that are just treated with an SSRI are shocking.

• 20:40Anthony Pompliano?

  What's SSRI? SSRI?

• 20:43Speaker 02

  Sorry, antidepressant.

• 20:44Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, got it, yeah. I feel like they're trying to drug America.

• 20:47Speaker 02

  That's what they do?

• 20:48Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, they're drugging kids in the schools, they're drugging, uh, middle-aged men, like, the whole thing.

• 20:52Speaker 02

  I mean, it's a machine. So I, I ran market research and business development for a four billion dollar pharmaceutical brand at Eli Lilly.

• 20:59Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 20:59Speaker 02

  That's our job. You literally go spend twenty million dollars conducting market research, figuring out which message is going to resonate most with your physicians and your patients. And you figure, you say, this is the message? Great, let's go ahead and let's blast it all over the damn airwaves.

• 21:13Anthony Pompliano?

  I don't want to hear that. That scares, that scares me a lot.

• 21:16Speaker 02

  It's, so here's the reality. There's a lot of good that comes from it. But there's also, we'll call it maybe, an over-prescriptive mindset in the country. When the reality is, a large majority of the problems we go through can all be solved by lifestyle changes. Or talk therapy. And the normal or the easy thing for people to do, because they don't want to put in the work very often, is, take this pill, take this pill, take this pill.

• 21:42Anthony Pompliano?

  So, okay, you go, they say, hey, we gotta fix this.

• 21:47Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 21:47Anthony Pompliano?

  You're doing all these other things that are right.

• 21:49Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 21:50Anthony Pompliano?

  What do they tell you to do outside of are you sleeping, are you eating right? Are you squatting? Are you whatever?

• 21:56Speaker 02

  So the first thing that I decided to opt for, right? And this is the most important thing. You have to understand all the benefits, but more importantly, the side effects that come along when you take treatment. A lot of great things come out of it. And there's also a lot of changes or things you have to really watch for. Because I was younger and I wanted to maintain my fertility or be in a place where I could actually have children, I initially opted for a fertility drug called Clomid. Women use it, guys have been using it for the past 35 or 40 years. And what that little pill does is it takes the signal from my head and it tells my testes to produce more testosterone naturally. Took that for about six months, felt great, right?

• 22:37Anthony Pompliano?

  So it worked?

• 22:38Speaker 02

  It worked. It's very gentle. It, all of a sudden, I started to sleep a little bit better. After I slept a little bit better, I noticed that my recovery was a little bit better. But the most interesting thing is that it gives you back your confidence a little bit, right? And that confidence is what you actually can begin to harness and do other things with. And then you start doing things you couldn't before. And all of a sudden, you start to think, I can accomplish the same exact things. And that's part of this feedback cycle. Cause I think that one of the most important things people have to realize, there's never a silver bullet you take. It's always you take something that gives you a little bit of something and you've got to harness that energy and do something more useful with it.

• 23:19Anthony Pompliano?

  So you start taking that, you do it for six months. Why'd you stop?

• 23:23Speaker 02

  So I got, I mean, I am a, started a company. And for me, I learned that there's all of these other tools that I have at my disposal. And I said to myself, I want to live as long as humanly possible. I want to feel as young as possible. I want to be able to accomplish. I want to be able to impact as many people's lives. I build mission-driven companies. And so then I said to myself, okay, let me try the testosterone. Let me try a baby dose of it and see what it feels like. Normal dose of testosterone is 100 milligrams a week.

• 23:53Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 23:54Speaker 02

  I take about 40 to 50 milligrams a week. So a small dose. And just to give you an idea, a bodybuilder probably takes 2,000 milligrams per week.

• 24:03Anthony Pompliano?

  Woo!

• 24:04Speaker 02

  Right? So you're taking-

• 24:05Anthony Pompliano?

  100 is normal, they take 2,000? Is that why they all unfortunately, well, yes, they're huge, but also like physically, but like a lot of them have heart problems, pass away, et cetera?

• 24:16Speaker 02

  But keep in mind, if you are a bodybuilder, you're probably taking testosterone, you're probably taking Anabar, you're probably taking Anadrol, you're probably taking Anaball, you're probably taking Clonopril, you're taking multiple medications and you're stacking them together in a staggered approach. So you gain a bunch of weight and then you lose a bunch of weight prior to actually going to competition.

• 24:32Anthony Pompliano?

  So you're pushing your body through hell over and over and over again.

• 24:35Speaker 02

  Over and over again for multiple cycles throughout your entire life.

• 24:38Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. Okay. So you start taking a little bit. Were you like, this is awesome. Like, what was the reaction or feeling?

• 24:44Speaker 02

  It's, keep in mind, one, I'm not a doctor and two, every person is completely different in how they, how it impacts them. And I'll say this, right? The, imagine that you've got receptors all over your cells for testosterone. And so testosterone goes into all your cells and they have multiple different biological processes. That's important. Now, how the testosterone makes you feel manifests itself in your personality. That's the other important thing. So for me, I went from not being able to think about the future and dream about bigger things to all of a sudden, I was like, holy shit, like this is a second win. I'm going to be able to do this again. Oh my God, I can work these hours again. Oh my God,

• 25:27Speaker 02

  I can go to the gym like I used to. All of a sudden I could think like I used to. I was reading a whole lot again. All of a sudden I didn't have, didn't have to take those naps during the middle of the day. I actually at one point thought I might've been a little bit depressed. Never felt that way in my entire life. And all of a sudden that feeling had disappeared. And the moment you're given that, it almost feels like another lease on life. And then I said, okay, this isn't something we do. Then I got into the whole world of peptides, right? And those are other kind of like, we'll call it protein messenger molecules that you have in your body. Very often they can be consumed, but most of them are injected. Then I got into peptides and started, I would say stacking different peptides based upon their outcomes in different combinations to see what they felt like. And then I got into

• 26:09Speaker 02

  this whole world of optimization. And I said to myself, this is fucking amazing.

• 26:14Anthony Pompliano?

  What is a peptide?

• 26:15Speaker 02

  So imagine you've got seven to 10,000 different protein messenger molecules in your body.

• 26:21Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay. What, what is that?

• 26:22Speaker 02

  Um, so basically, uh,

• 26:25Speaker 02

  Hormones.

• 26:26Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it.

• 26:26Speaker 02

  Hormones are very often protein messengers. There are some very long ones, some very short ones. Growth hormones, another one as well. And so basically.

• 26:35Anthony Pompliano?

  Sammy Sosa, Mark McGuire.

• 26:38Speaker 02

  I, that's who I was thinking about.

• 26:40Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, I don't know if they admit it or not, but that's what it is. At least accused of doing the human growth hormone.

• 26:46Speaker 02

  Growth hormone, yep. And so, so here's a great example, right? One of the peptides, or not even one, there's a series of peptides they sell out there.

• 26:52Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 26:53Speaker 02

  That basically, instead of giving you endogenous or exogenous growth hormone.

• 26:57Anthony Pompliano?

  Outside.

• 26:57Speaker 02

  Outside, nailed it. You're getting, he's getting good at this. He's gonna take my damn job.

• 27:03Speaker 02

  Instead of giving yourself more growth hormone, it basically tells your pituitary gland to tell other parts of your body to release growth hormone.

• 27:12Anthony Pompliano?

  Create more, yeah.

• 27:13Speaker 02

  Well, could be create more. Very often, it's release more of it.

• 27:17Anthony Pompliano?

  Interesting.

• 27:18Speaker 02

  And so, all of a sudden now, your body is naturally releasing it. Now, there's obviously some side effects you've got to watch out for, but it's really important to understand that the timing, the dose, what else you're stacking it with, is all incredibly important, and you should always be doing it with the help of a physician, always.

• 27:37Anthony Pompliano?

  Did you ever like go on the internet and like buy shit from like China or anything? I've seen people, I don't want to name who they are, but I've seen them online talking about this. It's like, yeah, you just like go to this website and like, you like order steroids or testosterone or whatever from like these random places overseas. Did you ever either research that, do that, any of that type of stuff?

• 27:56Speaker 02

  All the time.

• 27:56Anthony Pompliano?

  Really?

• 27:57Speaker 02

  But for different reasons.

• 27:58Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 27:58Speaker 02

  For different reasons.

• 27:59Anthony Pompliano?

  Like, what reasons?

• 28:01Speaker 02

  So, I am obsessed with the healthcare industry. I'm obsessed with personal health. I try, I'm a, probably a customer of every healthcare company, men and female out there. I buy all their products, I bring them home, I take them apart, I'll order for multiple labs, I want to see how it's packaged, I want to see what's actually in it. We'll send them to other labs to have them tested for purity. I also am constantly looking at what's on the fringe that could potentially become a very real thing in the near future. And we're thinking about how do we move past testosterone, because that was just kind of what got us the initial start.

• 28:36Anthony Pompliano?

  How do people trust the things that they order off the internet from these other places?

• 28:41Speaker 02

  You don't.

• 28:41Anthony Pompliano?

  Like, yeah, like I gotta imagine if I was like, I'm in the market for testosterone and pick your country far outside the United States. I mean, I just was, you know, watching or was I reading? I don't remember like the Halloween candy had fentanyl in it. Like they're putting that shit in the candy. I got to imagine again, and I don't think they're, you know, putting a pill and you're like, oh, I thought I was getting a liquid when I got this pill. But like you, how do you know what you're actually putting in your body? I think that scares people.

• 29:09Speaker 02

  Don't, you don't.

• 29:11Anthony Pompliano?

  Really?

• 29:11Speaker 02

  That's the reality, right? When you're ordering from these basement pharmacies, when you're ordering overseas, you have no clue what you're putting in your body.

• 29:19Anthony Pompliano?

  That's scary.

• 29:20Speaker 02

  Hold on, like, I mean, it's terrifying to know that you are ingesting something day after day, or you're injecting something into yourself. Arguably like the most invasive way to actually put a medication into your body and you actually have no clue what the hell it is.

• 29:36Anthony Pompliano?

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• 30:19Anthony Pompliano?

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• 31:01Anthony Pompliano?

  During the digital asset class, you'll need access to granular on-chain and market data from multiple venues to power research, trading, risk management, and compliance. Amber Data delivers comprehensive data and insights into blockchain networks, crypto markets, and decentralized finance, empowering financial institutions to apply traditional finance methods to digital assets. Amber Data eliminates the infrastructure setup, integrated challenges, and maintenance headaches to access digital assets' data, reducing cost and time to market to enter the digital asset class. Learn more and download their digital asset data guide at www.amberdata.io/pomp. Again, that's amberdata.io/pomp. Go check them out today. And the average person, maybe even the sophisticated person, if they get something,

• 31:45Anthony Pompliano?

  can they test it before they put it in their body? Like, can, is there like a?

• 31:49Speaker 02

  Who does that?

• 31:50Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, like, hey, I ordered this thing, let's make sure it's really this thing. Like, I'm assuming most people don't do that.

• 31:54Speaker 02

  No. Most people get it and they're like, oh my God, I'm so excited. I can't, can't wait to try this. Let's do it.

• 31:59Anthony Pompliano?

  2,000! All right. So as you guys get started, I forget who introduced us or how we got connected, but at some point we're like, all right, you have a company. And I'm like, all right, what's company? And you guys are like testosterone optimization, which I think is important. Because it wasn't, I don't think in our initial conversation, you correct me if I'm wrong, it was like, hey, we just have a testosterone replacement. Or like, we want everyone to go and get this exogenous testosterone injected. Instead, it was like, we want to help optimize for testosterone levels? Is that like a fair?

• 32:33Speaker 02

  Well, let me, let me actually correct that a little bit, right?

• 32:36Anthony Pompliano?

  Perfect.

• 32:37Speaker 02

  Most other clinics, they will literally say, if your cash is green, I don't care what your numbers are, I will prescribe it to you. If your cash is green and you're paying me with cash. We actually take a very different stance.

• 32:51Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 32:52Speaker 02

  We basically say only if you are hypogonadal, which is having clinically low testosterone, as you are tested using biomarkers on two separate occasions, will we be willing to prescribe you medication? And then more importantly, if you want to continue receiving medication, you've got to get retested every 90 days. If you don't get retested, we don't continue sending you out medication.

• 33:14Anthony Pompliano?

  How much is the test? Like, how much does that cost?

• 33:17Speaker 02

  So we charge $45 for your initial test and your physician consultation.

• 33:22Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay. And so if you're getting tested every 90 days, and what are you receiving? Because there's kind of like different things that people can interface with you all.

• 33:31Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 33:34Speaker 02

  So let me actually maybe go through the process. That might help you understand it. So for $45, you buy this at-home testing kit.

• 33:40Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 33:41Speaker 02

  Or, just launched it yesterday, you can go to LabCorp and you give us $5 and you can use your insurance to get your biomarkers. We'll then analyze that. We analyze eight different biomarkers. We then do a 30-minute audiovisual consult between you and a physician. And that consult is the first 10 minutes, you tell us what's going on in your life. It's a very deep therapeutic conversation. Most guys, very often, haven't told anyone about this for 10 years. There's a lot of crying. A lot is a strong word. There is some crying. Next 10 minutes, we go over your results. What does it mean? What's happening in your body? And the next 10 minutes, we describe here the benefits, but more importantly, the side effects of any treatment. And then we give you different treatment plans. You make a decision. If you decide to go on something like a testosterone

• 34:26Speaker 02

  that is a controlled substance, we actually ask you to do a second confirmatory test. We send you out medication. And then every 90 days, we basically say, if you want to continue receiving it, we want to get you tested. And it's not because we just want to test you to test you. It's more importantly, we want to make sure it's safe for you.

• 34:45Anthony Pompliano?

  And it's like a safety thing that what are you looking for? Or like, what would disqualify someone? So they're getting the every 90-day test. What could go wrong? What are you looking for to be like, oh, timeout? Like, we don't need to keep sending this to you.

• 34:58Speaker 02

  So. There's a couple of things. One is, sometimes we ask the person to make a bunch of lifestyle changes in conjunction with it, they don't make those lifestyle changes. They continue to drink real hard. They continue to smoke a lot. Doesn't make sense that this medication's for you because you don't really want to change. Second thing is, maybe your estrogen levels go up really high because, once again, testosterone converts into estrogen. And we say, hey, you should remove some of the estrogen. You don't want to remove some of the estrogen. We say, okay, maybe this treatment isn't for you because you're not necessarily being compliant. But the bigger one is, about 15 to 20% of people that take testosterone, the amount of red blood cells they have increases.

• 35:35Anthony Pompliano?

  Is that bad?

• 35:38Speaker 02

  Could be. Let's say, it could be. It could be. It's a very-

• 35:41Anthony Pompliano?

  What happens if you have too many red blood cells?

• 35:44Speaker 02

  It's, well, that's also up for debate, right? Because technically, people that live in elevated places in the country and athletes that train there, they have more red blood cells so they can hold more oxygen.

• 35:53Anthony Pompliano?

  That's why they do it.

• 35:54Speaker 02

  That's why they do it. And you don't hear them necessarily having problems, but if you have, you have an elevated hematocrit level, which is the total number of red blood cells, and you were to have to go for an operation, you could theoretically bleed a little bit more, right? Also theoretically, you could have a higher degree of having a cardiovascular event, theoretically. And so generally, we basically say, if your hematocrit level increases, you need to have what they call a therapeutic phlebotomy. It's a real fancy word. Therapeutic phlebotomy just means-

• 36:23Anthony Pompliano?

  It sounds badass, doesn't it?

• 36:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, what is it? You're just drawing your blood. You're donating your blood. I'm one of those people that it happens to every, we'll call it four months, I've got to go donate my blood, I'll do it all day long.

• 36:33Anthony Pompliano?

  I just saw a study. Now, you know, a scientist, obviously. I was reading a study that I saw somebody post on Twitter, of course. It was fascinating. It said that you have a, I forget exactly how they positioned it, so not medical advice, you should go and find the study yourself. The people who donated blood regularly had longer lives.

• 36:55Anthony Pompliano?

  And they clearly called out, it could be because there's a connection between donating blood and somehow leads to longer lifespan or whatever. Or it could just be that healthy people donate blood more and therefore they end up having a longer life. So they didn't go as far as to say like, it's, you know, certain or anything like that. But they did find this, I guess, correlation or kind of unique data point around donating blood and lifespan that I found fascinating. I was like, huh, is it because your like body has to like almost clean itself out as you're donating blood or, you know, I don't know, but like, interesting.

• 37:31Speaker 02

  I actually am going to go read about this myself because I hope that is just another reason why I live longer.

• 37:36Anthony Pompliano?

  It just came out and I saw somebody tweet and like, whenever I see these studies, I'm always like, okay, like, I would like to see many of them, right? Kind of all this stuff. I didn't change any of my behavior. I didn't go donate blood or anything, but it does feel like the world maybe in general is getting smarter about some of this, some of the optimization, some of the impact of various activities you could do. Obviously there's like the DNA stuff, but also I think now you're starting to see just average, you know, quote, quote, average person being like, oh, there are now tools available to me that may not have been available to me 10, 20 years ago. Elite athletes, multi billionaires had this stuff, right?

• 38:18Anthony Pompliano?

  Now it's getting kind of commoditized down from a price point standpoint where if I go find a provider that does this really well, high quality, you know, is done over and over, is safe, like all these different things. I now have access to what, you know, the kings had access to, you know, a hundred years ago or whatever.

• 38:36Speaker 02

  God, you nailed it.

• 38:37Anthony Pompliano?

  It's crazy.

• 38:38Speaker 02

  You nailed it. Now, there are a lot of things that drive that. Actually, let me ask this question. You're 34. How old do you feel in your mind?

• 38:47Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, in my mind, I'm like a 12 year old kid.

• 38:49Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 38:50Anthony Pompliano?

  Like an idiot.

• 38:51Speaker 02

  Hold on, that's life's dirty little secret.

• 38:53Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 38:53Speaker 02

  The older we get, the more successful we are, the more disposable income we have, the more wisdom we have, we feel like we're 12 or 21 in your brain. 12, God bless you. That, that sounds like a gift, right? And that's the truth of it. Now, the other thing is, we've watched our parents go through chronic conditions. It's ugly, it's messy, it's painful. On the other hand, our parents are living longer. So it creates this huge example for us that we don't want to live that life. Then on top of it too, a lot of us played sports when we were younger and it's around us using social media that you can feel so much better as you actually get older and you can take advantage of all this disposable income and wisdom that you have or this family time that you have. And what's happening is people are going, well, that person can have it and I saw how they did it. They're no different than I am.

• 39:38Speaker 02

  Shoot, I work with them. I should be able to do that. And all of a sudden you start to say to yourself, you're in your late 30s, you're in your 40s, your 50s, and you're going, huh, I can go to Starbucks and I can spend $4, $5 every single day, 150 bucks, 200 bucks over the course of the month. And it's, or I could go and have myself optimized and have my health taken care of and I'll feel way better than those cups of coffee and I'll live longer.

• 40:02Anthony Pompliano?

  So when people start to use the external testosterone, what do they normally report? Is it just higher energy, better focus, better mood, like those types of things?

• 40:15Speaker 02

  It's different for everyone going back to everyone is so incredibly individual and it manifests itself based on your personality. But generally what you hear is, and I wish, so we have a, the way our product is built is fascinating. We literally have a Facebook like community in the middle of our product with people seeing different medications and biomarkers alongside of it. And there's like 20,000 men that are constantly talking about these positive changes they've had in their life. What you very often see is, I was in the lowest part of my life. I felt like I couldn't get on the ground and play with my kids anymore. I felt like I couldn't have a conversation with my significant other because I didn't have the patience or I didn't have the confidence to look them in the eye. And I always wanted to walk away from my problems.

• 41:00Speaker 02

  Or I couldn't go to work and I couldn't focus to go and crush it and earn more money for the people I love. And you're a father now and you know what it's like to want to take care of your daughter. And the first things they start to say is, all of a sudden, my sleep started to improve. And then because I was sleeping better, now all of a sudden I wake up, I feel a little bit more refreshed. There's a little bit less chatter in my mind. All of a sudden, the anxiety starts to go away a little bit. All of a sudden, my energy levels start to come back. All of a sudden, I can start to think a little bit more deeply into problems and do things I used to do when I was a little bit younger. And then it starts these interesting set of cascades where their life actually improves because they have this energy back, right? And it's interesting because when you think about the biggest thing we lose as we get older, it's energy.

• 41:43Speaker 02

  And so a lot of guys come to us and say, it's like, look, it's not about the muscle, it's not about the sex. Because by the way, those things are all wonderful. It's really about how do I get more energy and mental clarity? And this is the most important thing, so I can feel like myself again. It's a hugely, huge identity issue that they're grappling with.

• 42:00Anthony Pompliano?

  I've for a long time had this theory that coffee consumption in America has exploded.

• 42:06Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 42:07Anthony Pompliano?

  And a lot of it was due to physiological changes that people were going through. And so they were using the coffee to get the quote unquote energy, right? To then push through the next couple of hours to go get another cup of coffee. Like it became almost like a drug, right? I don't know if that's completely true or whatever, but like the charts line up, right? Of like, in hindsight now, as I've looked at it, testosterone's dropping, coffee consumption's exploding. And like, energy is kind of one of the common things here.

• 42:40Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 42:42Anthony Pompliano?

  What is interesting to me though, is that like, in some ways, coffee is the Band-Aid?

• 42:49Speaker 02

  Hundred percent.

• 42:50Anthony Pompliano?

  And testosterone levels, whether it is just my sleeping, eating correctly, like kind of what we'll call like natural stuff, or it's anything like you guys would do, or people could go to a doctor to for whatever.

• 43:03Anthony Pompliano?

  That's really the like true solution. And I'm wondering, the people who you all work with, do you see their coffee consumption going down? Like that would be like the other side of the equation.

• 43:16Speaker 02

  That is a fascinating question. And I am 100% going to go poll our community.

• 43:23Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 43:24Speaker 02

  And send an email out to folks because now I am really, really interested to find that answer. But if your theory holds correct, I bet you it starts to make sense. I can even say from personal experience, my overall caffeine consumption has been reduced dramatically as I've really figured out how to fine tune myself.

• 43:43Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. What do you do from like a, let's just kind of go through the different aspects. So like diet wise, what do you do to help supplement kind of the optimization work you do?

• 43:54Speaker 02

  So I think it, here's the other really important thing, right? In different parts of our life, we're trying to achieve different things. And when you're in a different part of your life, your diet's legitimately going to change, right? I worked, no lie, 16 hours a day, six days a week. On the seventh day, I take a little bit of time off and I constantly tried doing it over and over and over again, and also try integrating my family in it. And so I went through this phase where I was trying on a hard keto diet because it helped my mental clarity and it helped me maintain very low body fat because I couldn't actually go to the gym as often as I'd like to. When I say as often, I mean as long as I'd like to. That lasted probably about a year until I realized my, my bad LDL levels had went up

• 44:36Speaker 02

  a little bit too high because my body specifically was susceptible to those kind of bad changes. A lot of other people's aren't. And so I hired another trainer. We went on, we'll call it more of a carnivore diet. I didn't really like that. I hired another trainer. And interestingly, when I say a trainer, I mean like a dietitian. I actually eat so incredibly well now and I consistently lose weight. I consistently add muscle to myself. I obviously don't like being too big. And the way my diet is, is I have 200 grams of protein per day. I've got 120 to 140 grams of carbs. I've got a bunch of healthy fats that go in there. I eat very, very healthy, but I will tell you, you can cook healthy food. So it feels like you're eating at a restaurant and it takes very little prep.

• 45:18Anthony Pompliano?

  But like, what, like, what, what is, I don't know. Last week, what did you eat? Like some of the meals? Is it like you go and you cook a steak and you have like broccoli? Is it like no broccoli is bad? And, uh, you're not touching that?

• 45:31Speaker 02

  Easy, easy way to think about it, right? So let's just say I've got to consume 120 grams of carbs and 200 grams of protein.

• 45:37Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 45:38Speaker 02

  I'll go get for, for, let's call it for 60 grams in the morning. I'm going to have a shake that has incredibly, we'll call it clean protein. So not a lot of additives in terms of a protein powder. I'll throw a cup of oats in there and we'll call it, that's my 50 grams of carbs to get the day started. Then my next meal in the day, I'll have, we'll call it like six ounces of ground turkey with, we'll call it two wheat tortillas. And it'll be like the healthiest, most wholesome Mexican meal during the middle of the day. Right. And it's hard to get that much food down.

• 46:12Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 46:12Speaker 02

  Then my next meal in the day will probably be something like, call it like a, a cup of jasmine rice with all kinds of spices, um, chives. And then I'll do, do you have an air fryer, by the way?

• 46:25Anthony Pompliano?

  No, but I've seen these. Yeah, I've seen these. I've seen these.

• 46:28Speaker 02

  How can you, how can you be so successful and not have an air fryer in mind? I will tell you this, chicken thighs out of an air fryer. Superb.

• 46:36Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 46:37Speaker 02

  Even steaks out of an air fryer. Superb. So I'll do that in an air fryer. I'm sorry. I gotta tell you the truth. It's unbelievable. And then at, at the end of the night, I'll have like a scoop of protein and I'll probably have like, uh, like a scoop of fay, right? It's a lot of food during the day.

• 46:53Anthony Pompliano?

  That's a shit ton of food.

• 46:54Speaker 02

  And I, and here's the best thing about it. It feels like so much food at the beginning, but the moment you start eating it, you, interestingly, your body, and this is the most counterintuitive thing. You start to lose weight and your body gets used to it and it constantly craves that.

• 47:10Anthony Pompliano?

  When you do that, what do you then do in the gym? Like, what does an average workout look like?

• 47:17Speaker 02

  I'm in and out of the gym in forty-five minutes.

• 47:19Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 47:20Speaker 02

  Right, so I get in, once again, I hire a trainer, just because I like working with a professional. But what I'll do is, give you an example of my workout today, right? Jumped into the hotel gym, did my triceps, did my biceps, probably for like, call it twenty-five minutes. Jumped on a stair stepper for twenty minutes, I was in and out in forty-five minutes. I always hit a sauna every single day. That's arguably been one of the best things I've ever had.

• 47:46Anthony Pompliano?

  What does the sauna do for you? Like, why the sauna?

• 47:49Speaker 02

  Ooh, so there's this concept, right? Of, I'm trying to think of how to simplify it. When you put your body under just enough stress, your body senses that something's happening, and it starts all of a sudden activating all these healing properties or mechanisms. And it basically, your body starts healing itself. And there's, when I say mechanisms, let's call it, there's seven or eight different pathways.

• 48:14Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 48:15Speaker 02

  One of the pathways is, you have these things called senescent cells. These are cells that have probably been around in your body for way too long. They're causing all kinds of havoc. Sometimes your body starts cleaning those up. And it also depends upon, which, sometimes I use a hot sauna, which is in my gym, or I have an infrared sauna in my place, sometimes I'll use the infrared sauna.

• 48:34Anthony Pompliano?

  What's the difference between the two?

• 48:35Speaker 02

  So a hot sauna is gonna basically heat up the surrounding air about a hundred and eighty to two hundred and twenty degrees. And so you're heating up yourself from the outside in, versus an infrared sauna is gonna probably be a hundred and fifteen to a hundred and thirty, a hundred and forty degrees. And it's gonna penetrate the first couple layers of your skin, start a little bit further inside, and then you're gonna eventually sweat that way.

• 48:58Anthony Pompliano?

  Is that bad for you?

• 49:00Speaker 02

  No, there's, now there's...

• 49:01Anthony Pompliano?

  Infrared shooting into my skin, I don't know if I'm cool with that, what does that do?

• 49:04Speaker 02

  Baby, why are you glowing today?

• 49:06Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, what does that do? I don't know.

• 49:08Speaker 02

  So, here's the thing, right? There are certain infrared saunas.

• 49:11Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 49:11Speaker 02

  That have what they call, they, they, they have too many EMFs. Basically, there are certain infrared saunas that are janky, created out of bad materials, use bad lights, use bad woods, where they're leaking POCs. And so you have to make sure that you're getting the right brand.

• 49:27Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 49:28Speaker 02

  And there are a couple great brands out there, right? There's, there's Sunlighten, there's Clearlight.

• 49:33Anthony Pompliano?

  What about the sauna for you is just the stress of the body that then makes you sweat? That kind of tells your body, hey, like clean me out and be prepared?

• 49:43Speaker 02

  I think that's probably like the easiest, most simplistic way to do it, but then, I mean.

• 49:48Anthony Pompliano?

  And you just sit in the sauna? You don't do it?

• 49:50Speaker 02

  I meditate every single time religiously.

• 49:52Anthony Pompliano?

  Alright, I've seen people that like I work out in the sauna, people like to listen to music, whatever, like you just sit there?

• 49:57Speaker 02

  The number of guys that, the number of people I hear having like deep, I mean sauna time on a Saturday morning is, what did you do at the night at the bar before, or what did you do last night at the bar and how stupid were you? Those are the conversations on a Saturday morning.

• 50:11Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. When you do the sauna, you mentioned cold plunge earlier as well. You do that every day?

• 50:19Speaker 02

  Every day is a stretch, probably like twice a week.

• 50:22Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay, what does that do?

• 50:25Speaker 02

  So cold plunge is going to reduce a ton of the inflammation in your body.

• 50:28Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 50:29Speaker 02

  It also is going to, or it's also, when you think about the concept, this is a crazy concept to think about. You're going to get into water that's 35 to 45 degrees. Do you know how cold, what that feels like?

• 50:42Anthony Pompliano?

  It's cold, yeah.

• 50:42Speaker 02

  It's really cold.

• 50:43Anthony Pompliano?

  I don't know that much about science, but I think 32 degrees means it freezes.

• 50:47Speaker 02

  You've done, you've done so.

• 50:50Speaker 02

  And so what you basically do is you have to, you've got to do some breathing exercises and center yourself. Then you submerge yourself in the water. Once you submerge yourself in the water.

• 50:59Anthony Pompliano?

  Head goes under everything.

• 51:00Speaker 02

  Everything.

• 51:01Anthony Pompliano?

  Whew, okay.

• 51:02Speaker 02

  And you gotta do it quick. Don't do that slow, let me get in. It's going to be even worse. You just gotta rip the band-aid off. You gotta get right in. Then all of a sudden, what happens is your heart rate goes up, your body feels like it's under stress, same exact kind of concept. But then what ends up happening is this really cool thing where if you've, if you've done the right breathing exercise and you can steady your mind, your mind goes completely steady and you're just focused in the water and you're breathing in and out. And all of a sudden, all the other chatter that you have in your life, it disappears and it vanishes because all you are doing is thinking about how you fucking survive.

• 51:34Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. And so do you go back and forth? Like, I've done it before where you like, you go to a hotel and you're like, oh, I'm gonna go to the sauna. Wow, I'm gonna go to sauna. And then also you're like, oh, I got a cold pool? Somebody somewhere in a podcast like go hot, cold, hot, cold, or whatever. Like, do you do that? Or are you just like, I go in the sauna some days and then I do the cold pool some days?

• 51:55Speaker 02

  So I'll say when I have like a day day to myself, I'm going to go sauna for like 15 minutes. I'm going to go cold plunge for five minutes. There's a guy named Eric Hinman out there that swears by 20 minutes of sauna, 10 minutes of cold plunge, do it three times, an hour and a half. Now, the other thing too is you get an amazing high from this, man. The endorphin rush that you get once you hit that right point. I mean, it's just so much.

• 52:17Anthony Pompliano?

  And it lasts for the whole day?

• 52:18Speaker 02

  It lasts for the whole day.

• 52:20Anthony Pompliano?

  That's crazy.

• 52:21Speaker 02

  It's wonderful, man. But now here's the other curve ball too, because now you ask yourself, when do I do it? You would think that the best time to do it is right after a workout. Actually, you should separate your workout and you should separate your sauna and your cold plunge time.

• 52:34Anthony Pompliano?

  Really? Why?

• 52:36Speaker 02

  It generally, when you work out, you're trying to put stress on your muscles and you want them to grow a little bit. When you jump in a cold plunge right afterwards, you're reducing inflammation. So you're probably reducing some of kind of that, that damage per se. And so really, it's just nuance, right? You're not really sitting there and saying, am I doing this thing perfectly? If you just do it, that's a huge battle.

• 52:56Anthony Pompliano?

  I need to tell you something. Nobody's listening. So like it's, it's fine. But I did the hot, cold, hot, cold thing. And then I was like, I'm exhausted. And I felt like such a loser because I was like, man, I went in the sauna that I went in the cold plunge. I went last time I did it probably a couple of months ago, I'd three, four times back and forth or whatever. And I remember an hour later, I think I need a nap. Like, I'm actually tired. Why was I tired? Is it just because the body got so stressed out?

• 53:26Speaker 02

  Let me think about it this way. How often do you do podcasts?

• 53:29Anthony Pompliano?

  Podcasts?

• 53:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:30Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, I don't know. The 1,200 and a couple of years.

• 53:33Speaker 02

  You are a machine. You are an absolute podcast machine.

• 53:36Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 53:37Speaker 02

  I promise you, the majority of your guests, they come in here, they talk for two hours and they're like, God damn it, I'm so tired. I gotta go back to my hotel room and sleep. A lot of this has to do with being accustomed to it, getting your body used to it. And for you, you can probably do these reps in your sleep. You probably have done them in your sleep and you're barely even here because you guys.

• 53:54Anthony Pompliano?

  I'm sleeping right now. Yeah.

• 53:57Speaker 02

  I knew it.

• 53:58Anthony Pompliano?

  So that's really it is if if you kind of build up the ability to do this back and forth. And then it could you actually like go back to the caffeine conversation like if you let's say you did this in the morning. Right. So you went a sauna, cold plunge back and forth a couple of times. Could that be enough to like, start your day where you might not need caffeine?

• 54:17Speaker 02

  That's what a lot of people do.

• 54:19Anthony Pompliano?

  Really?

• 54:19Speaker 02

  I'm dead serious.

• 54:20Anthony Pompliano?

  Huh.

• 54:21Speaker 02

  I'll tell you something really. So going back to your body is consistently changing. And in order to figure out how to really be healthy and optimize it, you've got to constantly tinker with your body. About two years ago, for whatever reason, and it happened to coincide with becoming very healthy. My body became allergic to coffee.

• 54:42Anthony Pompliano?

  Allergic?

• 54:42Speaker 02

  Hold on. I love coffee.

• 54:44Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 54:45Speaker 02

  I've always loved coffee. When I say allergic, I would drink coffee and my whole head would feel like it's heating up. So much to the point where literally I'd have to put my head in the freezer. It was the most bizarre thing. Go to my doctors. We've never heard of this. We started all doing research. I'm very lucky that I have some very good doctors. And what we find out is that some small portion of the population develops sensitivity to caffeine and specifically from coffee.

• 55:08Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 55:08Speaker 02

  I had to stop coffee immediately. Interestingly, matcha worked out for me. And interestingly, my body two years later says, you know what? I want you to enjoy coffee again. And so this also goes back to if you're trying to figure out how to optimize your life, whether it's your health, your mindset, your business, you're constantly tweaking it around. And it actually becomes like a great source of joy because once you figure out the unlock, you feel way better than you did before.

• 55:36Anthony Pompliano?

  So it's fascinating that your body can like something, not like something, change like that. But one of the things I've thought a lot about is I don't think I drank coffee. It was maybe 27, 28.

• 55:54Speaker 02

  Yep. Oh, that's, that's a, that's a gift.

• 55:56Anthony Pompliano?

  I think that I, yeah, I think I had like a bad experience. I literally think if I remember correctly, I was like 12 and I like tried coffee and it was too hot and I burnt my mouth. And I was like, oh, like, were you guys crazy? Like, like all y'all have savage tongues out here drinking this. Like whatever, like I like, just I remember, I literally remember where I was. I like drinking. I was like, I'm out. And for whatever year, for like 15 years, I didn't drink it. Had it, iced coffee is a game changer. Right? And so, you know, you'd start and I'd have it like once a week, whatever. Now I drink, I don't know, 350, 400 milli-, like I drink a lot of coffee, right?

• 56:30Speaker 02

  Oh, that's a lot of coffee.

• 56:31Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. So like, I'll have, and I've talked about this before, people are like, well, that's crazy. Is I may have like a large Starbucks iced coffee, which I did not know how much caffeine was in there. It was a shit ton of caffeine. Or what I might do is I might do like a double espresso at, you know, 8 a.m. or so. And then again, at like 12:30, it's like four shots, right? Throughout the day. Not, that's not as crazy as other people, but like it's still a lot.

• 56:59Anthony Pompliano?

  That's not that long to go from like, I don't drink that to like, I need a lot.

• 57:04Speaker 02

  I'm addicted.

• 57:04Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. And so like, I've, I've thought like, I haven't decided completely, but in, what are we, 2023 is next year? Yeah, 2023. I've thought about like, could I go the whole year and not drink coffee one time? As like a challenge to myself. It scares the shit out of me because if I don't drink coffee in the morning, I'm like, you know, got a headache.

• 57:21Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 57:22Anthony Pompliano?

  But like, let's say that I wanted to do that. What would the path to like getting off the caffeine and like, are there things that, whether it's testosterone, whether it's some of these other protocols, like optimization stuff, whatever, that you think, or you've seen other people do to replace like the caffeine intake?

• 57:37Speaker 02

  Let me ask you, do you meditate?

• 57:39Anthony Pompliano?

  Meditate?

• 57:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:40Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, but like, not like the, I call it the woo woo meditation and then like the, like I clear my mind.

• 57:46Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 57:46Anthony Pompliano?

  And like, I, I walk a lot. And so like, that's like, kind of like a, I don't have my phone and you know, I'm like, kind of calm down, whatever. So it's not like, I think, true meditation as much as it's just like, I clear my mind.

• 58:00Anthony Pompliano?

  But I have some friends that like, I got one friend, he's like, the most torturous thing a human can do in today's society is go sit in a room and just be quiet, close your eyes for 30 minutes and don't fall asleep.

• 58:10Speaker 02

  It's a long, it's a long time to close your eyes, man. It sounds like, it's that, no phone, no nothing.

• 58:15Anthony Pompliano?

  No, he's like, nothing.

• 58:16Speaker 02

  The world might run by me.

• 58:17Anthony Pompliano?

  He's like, yo, you don't, you don't got pain tolerance for that, right? It's like, I don't do that stuff, but like, I do go for walks and everything, but not what I think most people would consider meditation.

• 58:25Speaker 02

  So I started meditating about 10 years ago.

• 58:28Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 58:29Speaker 02

  Right?

• 58:29Anthony Pompliano?

  Like the woo woo kind of meditation or like I go for a walk, clear my mind?

• 58:33Speaker 02

  Like I grabbed a Headspace app and I start meditating five minutes a day.

• 58:38Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 58:38Speaker 02

  Right? And I was running my first company. First company you run, always tons of work, always tons of decisions to make. I was also a cigarette smoker, right? I used to smoke cigarettes for some period of time. And one day I was like, I gotta, I gotta stop this. This is horrible for me and I gotta figure out how to get myself together a little bit better. And so I started meditating. First six months, I was like this bullshit. Your friend that was in a room for 30 minutes, I felt exactly like him. I was like, Jesus, what am I doing this myself? Then all of a sudden, I started to notice, and I'll talk about gratitude exercises in a second. I was just always calm and no matter what got thrown at me, I just didn't care. I just always came to the conclusion like, oh, that's cool. I'm gonna solve that.

• 59:20Speaker 02

  And then all of a sudden, literally I snapped a finger, didn't smoke another cigarette.

• 59:25Anthony Pompliano?

  Really?

• 59:26Speaker 02

  Just went like that. Then all of a sudden, I was like, oh my God, I feel like I have more energy in my life. Stop drinking as much coffee.

• 59:34Anthony Pompliano?

  All because of the meditation you attributed to?

• 59:36Speaker 02

  It's, it really started with that. Now, the next thing I layered in, and this is fascinating, as I started doing gratitude exercises first thing in the morning.

• 59:43Anthony Pompliano?

  What is that?

• 59:44Speaker 02

  So the easy way to do it is you basically grab your Apple Notes. You write three things you're really happy for in the morning. There's an app I use, it's called Five Minute Journal. But generally, when I do it, as I wake up in the morning, chug my water really quickly. Now, this is all completely automatic. I don't have to think about it. And my brain's like in a half woken up state, right? Then I sit and think about three things I am absolutely grateful for in my life. And so it takes a little bit of effort for you to go, I'm grateful about this thing. And then you sit and you think about it and you hold it in your mind's eye for a second and you feel it. Think about, man, I'm so grateful for my mother. I'm so grateful for my team. I'm so grateful that I get to live my dream out every single day and build these amazing companies. I'm so grateful for my girlfriend, for my father, whatever it is, my best friend.

• 1:00:27Speaker 02

  And when you start working that muscle of gratefulness first thing in the morning and that kind of mind state, and you're writing them down and you're also writing down what are the three things you want to accomplish that day? All of a sudden. Every, and this probably started happening like three months in, I'd be at a lunch with a person I fucking hated. And I'd be like, God, I'm just so grateful to be with this motherfucker. And you're like, what just happened? And then you realize you're actually just happy all the time. And the littlest things in life give you so much joy. And you couple that with the fact that your mind is a whole lot calmer and you don't get attached to things the way you used to emotionally and you let them kind of go by. You realize so much of the energy that we use up in our life is to hold on to things and emotionally process them when the reality is like, you don't have to react to most of those things

• 1:01:12Speaker 02

  and you can actually just be so much happier. And that was like the real unlock in my life, which was, I was like, oh my God, like, I'm just always happy. Great. I don't need to be constantly pushing energy down my throat all the time. And I know that sounds woo woo, but the moment-

• 1:01:27Anthony Pompliano?

  Nah, I believe in this.

• 1:01:28Speaker 02

  Like, the moment it happens-

• 1:01:30Anthony Pompliano?

  I do it differently, though.

• 1:01:31Speaker 02

  Well, what's interesting is when you talk to really, really successful people, a lot of them are just so happy about life. A lot of them are constantly, always giving back. A lot of them are constantly, they feel, I mean, some of them are absolutely crazy and they're, of course, and, but the other chunk of them, like, they're very happy with whatever happens. And they never get frazzled by crazy things. Like, literally, the number of problems that happen in my business on a daily basis, most people, they lose their mind over one problem. There's 15 fucking problems going on in my life every single day. And I'm just happy, man. I feel grateful that they're part of my life.

• 1:02:06Anthony Pompliano?

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• 1:02:46Anthony Pompliano?

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• 1:03:27Anthony Pompliano?

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• 1:04:10Anthony Pompliano?

  Again, exodus.com/pomp. Go check them out today. I'm gonna say something that I think a lot of people are gonna be like, wait, what is he talking about? So there's two things. One is something that people see publicly, but I don't think they realize why I do it. And the second is, uh, it's like a secret that all my good friends, uh, when they hear me say it, they're like, dude, no, you don't believe that. The public thing is every morning I wake up, and I don't do it every time exactly when I wake up, but like within the first hour. Yep. I get on Twitter and I tweet, "Good morning. Today is going to be a great day. Let's get after it relentlessly." Love it. Every day. Love it. And people are like, why do you do that?

• 1:04:49Anthony Pompliano?

  And at some point, I realized that there was a correlation between the days I did not tweet that and having shitty days.

• 1:04:59Anthony Pompliano?

  And like, I knew in the back of my head, like, there's a bunch of studies, right? If you like, wake up and read three positive articles versus three negative articles, you're more likely to see a better day. Like, there's all these things that like, kind of sort of hit around it, whatever. That's my version, I think of this like gratitude thing. But the second thing that I believe, uh, which is fucking, uh, sounds woo woo, but like, I believe this, is the manifestation. Yes. I have, I have a friend that I talked about all the time. I'm like, there are people who go through their life and they're like, oh, I kind of sort of like, want this thing, or like this goal, or whatever. And like, if you ask them at any point, like, hey, like, what are you working on? What are you, whatever? They're like, it's this thing this week, it's this thing next week, it's this thing, whatever. But there's one friend who, uh, I won't name, but, uh, he'll laugh when he hears this.

• 1:05:43Anthony Pompliano?

  Him and I text all day long. And it's like, a weird, like, dude version of manifestation of, it's like, here is a goal, and like, just drive towards it over and over. And it's like, all we talk about, right? And like, both of our wives are like, you two are insane, like, please stop. Mm-hmm. Right? It's like, no, no, like, you don't understand, like, this is my goal right now. And like, it's not like some big crazy thing all the time, right? It could just literally be like, something to do that week, or whatever. But it's like, if you put two people next to each other, and one of them is focused and like, constantly thinking about it, and like, whatever they can do to get there, and the other person's going, eh, who do you think's gonna get there? Like, obviously, the person who's like, focused on it, knows what they're trying to go after, whatever.

• 1:06:26Anthony Pompliano?

  And so, like, I do think, uh, there's been this like, rise of like, all like, uh, the like, super, super woo woo stuff. Yep. Uh, crystals, right? Like, like, like, that whole world. Oh, my god. Which, uh, I got a crash course from, uh, uh, my wife, and she was explaining to me, uh, um, what's the woman, a goop? And like, that whole, like, alright, I, I don't understand that. But like, no offense to them, just, that's not my, that's not my world, I, I, I don't understand it. But like the manifestation stuff, like, okay, cool, I can get there. But like manifestation is just another word for like obsession, which is another word for focus, which is another word, you know what I mean? Like you can kind of like look at it and you're like, oh, throughout history, like people have done a lot of this stuff.

• 1:07:10Anthony Pompliano?

  They just talked about it differently or they like executed it differently because like, well, you talked about this gratitude journal. Like the Stoics were doing a lot of shit that sounds pretty similar, right?

• 1:07:21Speaker 02

  Sounds, you know, you, you hit on something that's very important, right? You have like, we'll call it the goop crowd and then you got the pomp crowd.

• 1:07:29Anthony Pompliano?

  No, no, no, no, no. I'm cool with everybody.

• 1:07:31Speaker 02

  But here's the reality is that whether you, and it's very similar to religion, right?

• 1:07:37Anthony Pompliano?

  Then I'm definitely out. I just want to be on Switzerland.

• 1:07:42Speaker 02

  Religion is, or the goop versus pomp crowd. And I know I'm making this up, so I don't want to put you in the middle of it. The reality is that there are just different ways of going the same exact thing. And whatever way works for you at the end of the day, because what's beautiful thing about life is you get to pick and choose exactly what your flavor is. That's all that matters.

• 1:08:00Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:00Speaker 02

  And the manifestation thing is fascinating in itself, right? Because at the end of the day, if you really think deeply about it, it is something in your soul or your mind's eye that says, I believe I can do this. And then somehow you take that and you literally manifest it into reality by consistently obsessive and going after this with maniacal focus. And have you read the book Think and Grow Rich?

• 1:08:24Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, it's one of my three books that I always tell people I read at 20 years old changed my life.

• 1:08:28Speaker 02

  When you read Think and Grow Rich and you hear like this godlike voice of, and you will think and manifest and these sound waves will, will permeate the world and these organelles and you're like, Jesus, what the hell is this? And then you manifest something in real life, you're like, oh my God, this is what he's talking about? There's a guy named Dr. Joe De Silva. Have you heard of him?

• 1:08:47Anthony Pompliano?

  Nah, who's that?

• 1:08:48Speaker 02

  So you should definitely read this book. So basically, right, Dr. Joe had a bad bicycle accident. Doctor said he would never walked. He sat around and basically thought about his spine basically growing back over the course of X number of months. And all of a sudden, he was walking and he was riding a bike faster than physicians ever thought he would. And he wrote a book that's called Becoming Supernatural. It is not the easiest read, and there are parts of it that definitely sound woo woo, but it is the execution of what manifestation looks like in the, in the real life, if you want to actually implement it. Right now, I'm talking a little bit more,

• 1:09:28Speaker 02

  sounding more like business focused. But the reality is that anyone can achieve what they want, but they have to legitimately believe in themselves and they have to figure out how to take the steps to put that into action. Like, let's be honest, right? Five, six years ago, you weren't living this life. You had this vision and you said, hey, I want to make sure that I turn this thing into a reality. I want to have a well listened to podcast. I want to make sure that I can actually go and build businesses from the ground up. And you said to yourself, I'm going to literally focus and get that done. And the reality is that all started from a thought. And it sounds, for most people, they just can't, they're like, well, I think about things all the time, but I can't do them. And you're like, yeah, because you don't really believe you can do them.

• 1:10:08Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:09Speaker 02

  And I'm guessing you tell yourself all the time, I can do this. And you and your friend texting back and forth, that's what it is. It's a buddy system. And be like, no, dude, is it too ambitious? Fuck it. You can do it.

• 1:10:18Anthony Pompliano?

  I also think there's a self belief, there's a competition thing. Like, my brothers and I are super competitive. So it's always like, who, who did what? And the whole thing. But I forget who, maybe it was Keith or a boy was recently on a podcast, and I hate that I'm giving him a tailwind for his commentary. But he was talking about the fact that he's never met someone who's successful, who wasn't somewhat egotistical. That doesn't mean you gotta go be like arrogant and like the negative side effects of it. But he was basically saying like, the self confidence is actually really, really important to believe something is possible.

• 1:11:02Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:11:03Anthony Pompliano?

  Right? And I, you know, obviously, there's like the Roger Bannister, you know, kind of examples, all that stuff.

• 1:11:10Anthony Pompliano?

  But I wonder how much of the like self-confidence and the belief you can accomplish something is like physiological. Your body is optimized to be in a place where like it takes that level of happiness, optimism, you know, like a belief that you can handle resilient or handle obstacles, like, like all these little things that add up to then be in a mental state where you think something is possible. Because the truth is that like, I don't know, go to the extreme. People who are depressed don't usually like, I think I can do this or I can do that. It's actually the opposite. They like are telling themselves all the time they can't do something. So like, how important do you think that like the optimization of the body is for like the mental stuff?

• 1:11:54Speaker 02

  I think that people can have an inordinate amount of self-belief in themselves from very different situations. And I'll give you two different examples. One situation is your father beat the fuck out of you when you were young and you had to figure out how to get out of that house and you had to go figure out how to raise yourself and because of that you have self-belief and you then believe that you can achieve whatever you want. The other side of it is you had a mother that was incredibly supportive and told you you can do it and you can achieve everything you want and she built that part of yourself up. So you have self-confidence because of that. And so I think that people come at it from very different angles, but I think that once

• 1:12:33Speaker 02

  you get there, if you start understanding that there are these other hacks, mindfulness, cold plunges, saunas, optimizing your hormones, you can actually level yourself up a little bit faster. But I think that to say everyone that is successful is egotistical and they probably have the same kind of egotisticism would probably be a stretch of a statement. And so I think that, I will say this though. Becoming so disciplined in my life has become a great sense of joy for me. And I'm not, and when I don't want to be disciplined, I'm not disciplined. Right. That's like, one of the beautiful things about life is that you can take a day or two days off,

• 1:13:16Speaker 02

  and you can snap yourself right back into place. And I think that what a lot of people think is that you have to be perfect. And no one is perfect. No one is perfect. And the beautiful thing about life also is you can consistently choose to change paths however you want. And getting back to your appointment, a point of, does your body need to be optimized in order for you to be self-confident? I think that the discipline, whether it's you being the best knitter you possibly want to be, or making sure that you wake up and go to the gym every single morning. The discipline and proving yourself that you can be disciplined is what gives you confidence in very many instances.

• 1:13:54Anthony Pompliano?

  So we've talked about like optimizing your body, this mental thing. We weren't planning to talk about this, but I could talk about that all day long. You'd think people are going to live to 100, 110 years old. The average life expectancy in America right now has gone down recently, but it's like 77, I think, somewhere 77, 78 years old. That's a big leap to 100. Why do you, why do you think the life expectancy is going to extend so much?

• 1:14:21Speaker 02

  So I watched my father, right? We brutally touched upon this. Live for 30 years of some of the most, I'd say horrible chronic conditions on the technology that we have today.

• 1:14:35Speaker 02

  If he had eaten better, if he had learned how to reduce his stress, if he had taken his diabetes more seriously, he would have probably lived until he was 90. That's how long his parents lived.

• 1:14:49Anthony Pompliano?

  I think a whole generation of people.

• 1:14:53Anthony Pompliano?

  Eat bad.

• 1:14:54Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:14:55Anthony Pompliano?

  Don't exercise.

• 1:14:56Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:14:57Anthony Pompliano?

  And their kids tell them.

• 1:15:01Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:15:02Anthony Pompliano?

  You're screwing up.

• 1:15:03Speaker 02

  Hundred percent.

• 1:15:05Anthony Pompliano?

  And there's a, uh, some of it is a defiance. I'm not gonna listen to my kids. My kids aren't, you know, what do my kids know type thing? And another element of is the lifestyle, like the habitual nature of their lifestyle makes it, you would have to make such drastic changes and like, that's hard.

• 1:15:22Speaker 02

  You know how hard it is to break habit?

• 1:15:24Anthony Pompliano?

  Crazy.

• 1:15:25Speaker 02

  It's so difficult. And especially if that habit has been ingrained into you since you were a child and you watched your parents do it, it becomes even more difficult. And it's, it's interesting. I watched my father pass and I loved him with all, I love him with all my heart. And at the same time, as he was going, he told me, he was like, look, you're doing everything right. Make sure that you teach your kids how to do this. Make sure you keep on pushing your message and your mission out there. And I think that when people start taking their health seriously, in combination with all the technological and medical advances that are coming out, we will live that long. And here's a qualifier, if we want to.

• 1:16:03Speaker 02

  You're talking about an average age of an American. I think you will see far more people getting to a hundred, a hundred and ten, if they're taking care of themselves. I'm in this really interesting world that I optimize hormones and I work with people that really care about health. And I'm not lying when I say this, the number of 80 year old people I see that look like they're there in their mid 40s is shocking. Their minds have the plasticity of a 40 year old. They have the enthusiasm probably of a 20 year old. And they have like, when you look at their skin, their skin looks so incredibly supple because they've been taking care of themselves for all this period of time. And the other thing that's interesting is,

• 1:16:42Speaker 02

  I interviewed 150 guys before I started this company because I wanted to make sure this problem wasn't something I had in my mind. And I basically spent an hour and a half with them. We put a camera on like this. And I said, tell me about your life. Tell me about how you, what you think about old age, what you think about death? And here's the biggest takeaway. And this is going to be shocking, but not shocking. The 50 year old or 60 year old men that thought they were young, they looked like they were there in their 30s. They felt like they were in their 30s. Their enthusiasm came through. The 30 year old men that would literally say things like, oh, like 50 or 60. They looked 50 or 60. Their, their bodies, their mannerisms, their mindset, all of it drives it.

• 1:17:24Speaker 02

  And so, so much of what you do is your mindset, is how you think about your life and what you can actually continue to achieve, or what you want to achieve, or what, how happy you are. Now that being said, I do think we're going to live far longer. Now here's the important thing. I'm 40, you're 35, we touched upon this. You'll have 65 good years of life ahead of you. And so you're probably not thinking at 65, I'm going to retire. I'm going to go off and do, what are you going to do for 35 years? I have no clue. You're going to be bored as all hell. You're going to think about what else can I achieve with my life? What are the other experiences I can have? How can I work with, how can I spend time with my daughters? You'll probably have sons, their kids. And so when you start to think about your life being that long, it fundamentally changes the arc of your life.

• 1:18:09Speaker 02

  And you start to redefine how you think about it. And so I think what a lot of people do is, and I'll use my age as a perfect example. At 40, we start to think, well, our fathers, they probably start to slow down a little bit. They, 50 was around the corner. That's when they really started hanging things up. And they were just counting down their years until they got to 65 so they can retire. Versus I'm going, and a lot of my friends are saying, whoa, going back, I feel like a 12 year old in my mind. Oh my God, I got these parents I got to take care of. I got this family that I love and I want to take care of and be around for them as long as possible. I never knew a love like this existed before I had children. And they're saying, how can I, and selfishly, I want to feel good. I want to continue going to CrossFit. I want to continue playing pickleball or tennis. How do I put myself in a position where I can achieve that?

• 1:18:54Speaker 02

  And those things are, right, when we went back to it, what's your mindset? What are the habits you have in your life? How are you optimizing your health? And if you do those things, and this goes back to your comment about, if you optimize your, your body, it will give you the Foundation to go figure out how you can go achieve or optimize the rest of your life. And that's a lot of what we do, right? We work with guys and we tell them it's not just taking this shot or this pill. And your life is going to turn around like you have to change as a person.

• 1:19:22Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, I was telling you earlier, I read the book, Being Mortal by Atul Gawande. And in the book, there's a lot of shocking things, but there's two main things I think I took away from. At least the like, maybe the first half of the book is first, the experience or relationship that most people have with aging and death in America is very different than many other countries. He makes a point, at one point he talks about, I think it's his grandfather, great grandfather, lives to like a hundred or something back in India. And what does he do? He has family, he has one of his kids, he's got grandkids around, they're taking care of them.

• 1:20:02Anthony Pompliano?

  Like the experience of age and death is actually inside the home with family members. And he compares it to the United States where he's a physician and he's like, the age experience and death experience in America is in a hospital.

• 1:20:16Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:20:17Anthony Pompliano?

  And he's like, these are two different things because guess what? Guess who's taking care of the 95 year old person in the hospital? Somebody they don't know.

• 1:20:23Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:20:23Anthony Pompliano?

  Guess who's taking care of them at their home? Somebody they know, their kid, their whatever, right? So like he, that is like one interesting. But the second thing is he talks about the death, the physical death of the body. Why? How does that happen? And he basically says there's one of two schools of thought that people have tried to understand. The first being like, do you basically just, you're a machine, you're a machine, it works, it works, it works. Then all of a sudden like the machine shuts off and you die. Or is it wear and tear? Like over long periods of time, it degrades, it degrades, it degrades. And then like eventually you die. And his belief, which maybe some people disagree with, but his belief is more wear and tear than it's not. And so to your point about like, good habits, compound over long periods of time.

• 1:21:06Anthony Pompliano?

  And like by the time that somebody gets into old age, if they've been doing the right things, like they live a much better life, that would fit alongside his view of like, if you basically prevent wear and tear, if you do maintenance work, then you're going to be in a much better position 40, 50 years later than if you just like, fuck it. Let's see how, you know, let's see what my body can do. Let's just see what the human body can do. Like, that doesn't seem so great.

• 1:21:31Speaker 02

  You're completely right. I actually.

• 1:21:37Speaker 02

  I didn't realize

• 1:21:41Speaker 02

  how all the work I put in since I was 18 or 19 or 20 would legitimately compound. And now we'll call it like as a 40 year old, when I work with a lot of my friends or I hang out with them and I look at what they can do with themselves, how they can play with their kids, what are they trying to do in life? We're two very different people and I didn't realize how all that hard work I'd put in has literally compounded and given me this foundation that is arguably like if you said, I'm gonna take your car away, I'm gonna take your apartment away, I'm gonna take everything that you worked for away, I'd be like, yeah, that's cool. I got this health and I've got this mindset and literally I'm just gonna go and do it again.

• 1:22:24Speaker 02

  And I think that it's so hard to understand how these things compound because there isn't like a true blueprint or there are not enough stories about what compounding looks like. And we're such instant gratification people that you're like, oh, man, let me grab that, let me grab that beer when I come home from work and sit on the couch for a little while. You can't necessarily think long and I think that as people, we probably need to change that narrative a little bit, which once again, really hard, right? Really, really hard.

• 1:22:53Anthony Pompliano?

  What do you think really drives the behavior change for the people that you see change their behavior? Is it a mental thing? Is it, uh, they write a schedule? Like, what ultimately leads to the behavior change?

• 1:23:05Speaker 02

  Rock bottom.

• 1:23:07Anthony Pompliano?

  Really?

• 1:23:07Speaker 02

  Rock bottom.

• 1:23:09Anthony Pompliano?

  They're just like, they have nowhere else to go? Change or fail?

• 1:23:12Speaker 02

  Well, you generally, so when I interviewed these men, right? And then we eventually went and validated it with about 5,000 men. And this is what I used to do at a pharma company. And so you basically say, um, here is 21 years old, right? And then we're gonna look at your life going out this way. And I want you to chart your health from when you were 21 years old. This is what you see. I was 21 years old. I feel like I could run through a wall. I went, I hung out with my friends. I was 25 years old. I go to the bars all the time. I'd have a blast with my life. I met this wonderful girl. We ended up falling in love. I ended up getting married, got married. All of a sudden, I had two kids. I mean, I loved them, but God, that got, life got a little bit harder.

• 1:23:55Speaker 02

  Started getting some weight. All of a sudden, my, my, my work started piling up. And then all of a sudden, my boss is really horrible to work with. I looked down. It was 15 years later and I'd gained 30 pounds. I could barely get out of bed in the morning. I was constantly pissed off, getting up every single morning, wondering, is this my life? And they say they're at the bottom of their life. And they're like, I can either turn over because it feels like I'm in a grave and I could get progressively worse, or I could look at the man who I was and say, I want to change. And then that is the point with which people, they kind of almost go through like an enlightenment. They have to look at themselves in the mirror and fucking want it so bad. And they say, okay, I'm going to actually change my behavior. First thing I'm going to do is maybe I'll just have one glass of water a day.

• 1:24:41Speaker 02

  Maybe instead of taking the elevator, I'm just going to take a set of stairs all of a sudden. And the second you start accomplishing a couple of things, right? It, it exercises that confidence muscle you have. And once they've gotten a year, two years into it, they're so much further from that person at the bottom, they can't even recognize them.

• 1:24:59Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:59Speaker 02

  And that's what we consistently saw over and, I mean, the guys that come to us, when a guy is coming to us, think about this really, right? They're willing to spend $200 in cash out of pocket per month. They're willing to buy a random box from a company off Facebook, prick their finger, then tell a doctor for 30 minutes who they've never met, my dick doesn't work, my wife hates me, I feel like less of a man, and then get this medication and inject themselves, all of which are absolutely crazy. It's because they've got to probably be in a really difficult place in their life and they're in a lot of pain.

• 1:25:33Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. It, it, um, it reminds me a lot of, uh,

• 1:25:38Anthony Pompliano?

  The identity switch. So like if you read James Clear's Atomic Habits, he talks a lot about like, one of the best ways to change your habits is be like,

• 1:25:47Anthony Pompliano?

  I don't drink. And then all of a sudden you just like, stop drinking less, right? Or you start drinking less, whatever. And so this is like, how do you change your identity? Like, at some point, you have to make the decision, like, I want to change because I hit the rock bottom. And then that leads to the action change, which is fascinating. If somebody comes today, what can they actually do with you all? Like, what do you provide from a product standpoint that you would say are like the most popular things that the clients and the people in the community are actually doing?

• 1:26:18Speaker 02

  I mean, the first thing, right, is most people, and this goes to an endemic problem that we probably have in our country with the medical system. They've been searching for answers for why they feel like this for five, 10 years. So you first need a way to objectively obsess what's going on with their body. So first and foremost, they come to us, we look at their hormones, they do it from the comfort of their home. And we say, based upon your hormones, this is what's happening with your body. Then we also give them an outlet to tell their physicians that something is legitimately, what is wrong with you? And more important, like, where do you want to go in life? Because people want to go different places, and that means we have a very different set of actions that we want them to do. It might just be lifestyle changes, might be taking a medication,

• 1:27:03Speaker 02

  might be they want to live longer. We started selling longevity medications and we put together longevity plans. And then we basically have you tested again because we want to make sure everything's safe. And then we give you medications. Now, but the most important thing is, once I give you a medication, going back to the fact that everyone's different, my body all of a sudden hated coffee, and then it started loving coffee again.

• 1:27:23Speaker 02

  You have to try a medication because you are running an experiment on yourself. And then you've got to figure out the way it makes you feel. There's this really deep qualitative component. But most people don't know what to do with that qualitative component. And so you've got to work with a trained professional that's been doing this for 10, 15, 20 years that can say, oh, that feeling you're experiencing means it's either working, it's not working. And if it's not working, let's try a different medication, because different medications make people feel different. Or if it is working, maybe you can feel even a little bit better. Let's think about what that looks like. You've got to give, titrate the medication, change the medication. You've got to re-measure their biomarkers. And then you've got to see how your body's beginning to react. And then you've got to do that every 90 days until what they call you fine tune or you dial in what your actual protocol is.

• 1:28:07Speaker 02

  And then more importantly, you've got to continue having that conversation with the physician because every 90 years, 90 days or 180 days, your body's going to change again. Or maybe you want to do something different. Perfect example. I mean, how many people ran this New York City marathon? We had so many guys coming to us saying, hey, I'm going to be training for the marathon. What are other things that I could be doing in addition to the testosterone to make sure that I prepare my body for it? Should I be increasing my dosage? Should I be taking glutathione alongside of it? And so we help consult on those things as well, too, and make sure we create these very bespoke plans for guys. So that's really, it's, when you say a product, it is a individualized product for the individual based upon what they want in their life at that point.

• 1:28:46Anthony Pompliano?

  The last thing I want to talk about. Are we headed towards a world where people talk about the singularity? Tech and the body will like, or humans will merge, right? Are we getting there from like a medicine or a exogenous materials in the human body? Like people think of the singularity as like, put a chip in your brain.

• 1:29:10Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:29:12Anthony Pompliano?

  What you're really talking about is like this like optimization. Is that like a version of it? Where majority of humans at some point, the cost structures will get there, access will get there and like humans will be able to operate as optimized as possible because of this stuff?

• 1:29:30Speaker 02

  Let me ask you a question and then I'll answer.

• 1:29:32Anthony Pompliano?

  All right.

• 1:29:34Speaker 02

  If I could take your soul, your brain, and when you're going to die and your body's going to fail, I could put it into that box over there and it would run as a computer. Would you do it?

• 1:29:46Anthony Pompliano?

  I invested in a company that this is they try to do this. So I'm probably the worst person to ask. Yeah, I think I would do it.

• 1:29:54Anthony Pompliano?

  The only, I think, two things that become a little weird are like the ethical concerns, right? So like.

• 1:30:05Anthony Pompliano?

  Technology doesn't exist, so we don't have to worry about it. But like, if they could take your brain and all the synapse connections and like, put it in another body, like, then I guess a little weird. Like, I almost would prefer them, it'd be put in a machine than put in like, another human. It's like, that's a little weird. But then the other thing is,

• 1:30:24Anthony Pompliano?

  for what? So like, when this specific company pitched me, they were like, well, imagine if you could feed like today's problems, like Albert Einstein's brain. That'd be fascinating. Like, it would be better? Would it not matter? Like, we don't know. But like, imagine if you could do it, right? So like, that's very different than like, hey, you're gonna die, but your wife is now gonna hang out with this computer that says and does all the things you would do, but like, it's a computer. I gotta talk there.

• 1:30:54Speaker 02

  I gotta get a permission slip.

• 1:30:55Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, like, is that cool? Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's almost like the little bit of that. But I, but I generally think that, right now, a lot of people would say no. But I think that'll change over time, maybe. It's like the way I think about it.

• 1:31:07Speaker 02

  But let me ask you more of a point. Would you do it?

• 1:31:09Anthony Pompliano?

  Would I do it?

• 1:31:10Speaker 02

  Selfishly, I can put your body, or put your, you're, you're on your last leg. You have one of two options. You're gonna die, or I could put your soul into this computer. It's not gonna hurt, by the way.

• 1:31:19Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:20Speaker 02

  What's it gonna be like? I don't really know. But you're gonna be in that computer. And it gives you the possibility to continue living on forever. Would you do it? And you have to decide right now.

• 1:31:32Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, I kind of feel like, from an optionality standpoint, like, yeah, like, fuck it, let's do it. And then like, you can pull the plug later if you need. I don't know. Yeah, I guess.

• 1:31:42Speaker 02

  So it's interesting. The, the way I look at this is,

• 1:31:45Anthony Pompliano?

  I feel like I'm getting tricked here. It's like a trick question.

• 1:31:51Speaker 02

  I think there's, there is people saying, I want to integrate that technology into my life because it gives me another piece of information or data or enhances my life. And there is the, hey, if I don't do this, I may die, argument. And I'll give you, you know, a great, great example.

• 1:32:12Speaker 02

  My father was a type one diabetic and he was lazy. And by the way, dealing with diabetes, it's so hard. And when I say like, he was a particle physicist, he discovered four particles. He was absolutely brilliant, but he also didn't like doing extra work. And so he had a basically a continuous glucometer or CGM on one side. Then he had a machine that was smart enough to sense when that happened. Well, it actually wasn't a closed loop yet. And he would then press a button and it would administer insulin. Right? He needed that to live. He then needed a pacemaker to live and he had a pacemaker to live. He then needed hip, artificial hip. Yep.

• 1:32:57Speaker 02

  Throw it in. Right?

• 1:32:59Anthony Pompliano?

  He's becoming a cyborg.

• 1:33:00Speaker 02

  You're, he called, hold on. His, his email address was Sodstein.

• 1:33:04Anthony Pompliano?

  Shut up.

• 1:33:05Speaker 02

  I swear to you, [email protected]. He's a Star Trek junkie. And so then you, you start to, to ask yourself, if I need these things in order to live, will I go ahead and say, yeah, go ahead, throw it in the bag? And I'll tell you what my stance is. If I've got a family, if I enjoy my life, I am going to roll that dice every single time. And going back to that comment about if the medical advances that are coming around the corner, you're going to see more and more of that happening. I just read that they've developed a technology for a guy with ALS, doesn't have to, doesn't have to move his hands because he can't. They implanted a chip in his head. He's sending texts, he's going through the web, he's actually telling his wheelchair to walk. It's fucking amazing.

• 1:33:48Anthony Pompliano?

  Let's go.

• 1:33:49Speaker 02

  Yo, let's go. Why not? And so when, when I say, is the, the singularity here? No, it's not here, but I think that more and more options will begin to present themselves. And I think that you'll see more and more people electing to, yep, let's go ahead and do it. Is it going to hurt me a little bit? That's fine. Will I be able to live a little bit longer and actually decide, spend more time with my family? Yep, let's do it.

• 1:34:11Anthony Pompliano?

  I'mma leave you with a, a crazy hot take that people haven't gone through the steps, but sometimes I like to sit and think about seven, eight, 10 steps ahead of like how this could play out. At some point in the future, I think that people will make the argument that the brain-computer interfaces are necessary for everyone to ensure that the human population's posture remains intact.

• 1:34:37Speaker 02

  What's your definition of posture?

• 1:34:40Anthony Pompliano?

  You know, like the text neck? You know how everyone's always like huddled over their phone or over their computer? If you no longer have to have the physical device with your hands and the potential arthritis and all this stuff and everything, and all you can do is you can, I need to text that person and think, and it texts them, and you can somehow get back what they're saying. Just text, let's use as an example. And now, all of a sudden, you literally can basically return people back to just standing up straight, not being huddled over their phone all the time. But you don't think of like how big of a deal it is, but if, I've read a couple of studies where like physicians are like, dude, this is like a generational problem. It's like people are literally just huddled over those phones and they pull their shoulders up and like, we're gonna have a bunch of hunchbacks. And it's like, okay.

• 1:35:24Anthony Pompliano?

  Now, again, I'm exaggerating to some degree as to like, I don't know if people will actually make that argument, but like, there is arguments for some of these technologies that we don't even think about yet, that people will make, and I do think it'll usher most of them in.

• 1:35:38Speaker 02

  It's really interesting you say that because there's a book called The Shallows, right? My last company was an education technology company. We helped kids become better writers. And what the book basically said is, when you used to read on, we'll call it like a traditional piece of paper, paperback, I forgot what they're even called, God. You take your time, you take time to engage with the comments, with the words, you read them and you think about them, and you can actually get into very deep thought. The flip side of that is in today's society, we are just constantly scrolling things and we don't actually truly get into deep learning and understand it. And because there's more content around the bend, you hit it and you get another hit

• 1:36:22Speaker 02

  of dopamine, you're jumping on the next thing before you've even fully processed that. And they say that children... Will, and this was the argument, this was written almost 10 years ago, will not be able to maintain and retain information the same exact way that adults previously could. And because of that, will have mental and emotional problems, which interestingly is starting to play itself out, whether it's because they're not consuming content, they're on social media, looking at other people's lives, but a very real problem with, I would say, our young people today, right? Tremendous amount of anxiety, mental anguish. And so I think that whether it's the hunchback thing in us being hunched over, it's not crazy. Whether it's the fact that because of these pollutants, people have lower testosterone and lower sperm levels, and that their epigenetic changes are passing

• 1:37:05Speaker 02

  on to their kids, I think we almost don't know what's going to happen. But I will say this, there's a bunch of things that are probably very not positive. And it's just the way the world is evolving. And then you have to kind of figure out what's the next solution you're going to come slap on that.

• 1:37:20Anthony Pompliano?

  The more we talk, the more I'm like, ah, we're all screwed.

• 1:37:24Anthony Pompliano?

  Where can we send people to find you on the internet? Or if they want to check out the various products, where can we send them?

• 1:37:29Speaker 02

  Uh, so you can get me, I just gave you my email, personal email is [email protected]. I'm sure I can give it to you. You can put it in the show notes. You can find me on Instagram as M Sodolum. That's my handle. I'm sure you can put it down in the show notes as well, too. Those are the two easiest places to find me. Name of the company is Hone Health, H O N E health.com.

• 1:37:48Anthony Pompliano?

  Awesome. Thank you so much. We'll definitely do this again in the future.

• 1:37:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, man. Appreciate it. This has been great.

• 1:37:52Anthony Pompliano?

  Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. I really hope you enjoyed this one. Make sure you're subscribed on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player. And if you're looking to transition into a brand new job in the Bitcoin or crypto industry, we've got you covered. Head over to thecryptoacademy.io. My team and I have been working with the top HR teams in the industry to develop an intensive three-week training program with over 50 live events. We teach you exactly what you need to know to break into the industry, including live interview prep and resume review. Our students have been hired at over 75 of the world's best Bitcoin and crypto companies. Go to thecryptoacademy.io to learn more. Again, that's thecryptoacademy.io. If you enjoyed today's episode, make sure you share it with your friends and I'll see you all for the next episode.