#1114 Matt Gresia | The Man Behind Your Favorite TikTok Accounts

Matt Gresia is a TikTok star with 4 Million Followers and runs many other popular channels. In this conversation, we discuss content creation on Tiktok, Instagram and Youtube, the business behind creators, the rise of short form videos, and how Matt would build a new account from scratch. ================== With a Messari Pro subscription, you gain access to exclusive industry-leading long-form daily research reports, daily crypto news & insights in your inbox, advanced asset screeners, curated sets of charts and metrics and so much more. Try Messari Pro today! Get up to 25% off their Messari Pro membership by visiting www.messari.io/pro and entering promo code "POMP" at checkout. ======================= The number one name in NFT domains and the world’s most powerful wallet are teaming up to bring something new to the crypto and Web3 world: That’s right, Unstoppable Domains and Blockchain.com partnered to create NFT domain names ending in . Blockchain. Either sign up for a free blockchain.wallet or visit Unstoppabledomains.com to buy your domain today. ================== Exodus is leading the world out of the traditional financial system by building beautiful and user-friendly blockchain products. With its focus on design and user experience, Exodus has become one of the most popular and loved cryptocurrency apps. It’s supported on both desktop and mobile, allowing you to sync your wallet across multiple devices so you can have access to your funds anywhere. You can instantly exchange around 100 different cryptocurrencies straight from your wallet. Interactive charts let you view an asset’s price history and your portfolio’s performance over time. And maybe the best part, Exodus is integrated with the Trezor hardware wallet - making advanced security easy for everyone. Visit exodus.com/pomp for your free download or search Exodus on the App Store or Playstore. ======================= The Pod Pro Cover by Eight Sleep is the most advanced solution on the market for thermoregulation. It pairs dynamic cooling and heating with biometric tracking. Even better? Eight Sleep recently launched the next generation of the Pod. The new Pod 3 enables more accurate sleep and health tracking with double the amount of sensors, delivering you the best sleep experience on Earth. Go to eightsleep.com/pomp ======================= Valour (formerly DeFi Technologies) represents what’s next in the digital economy -- providing simplified, trusted access to crypto, decentralized finance and Web 3.0 investment opportunities. Institutions and investors can gain diversified, secure, compliant, and easily tradable access to a diversified set of industry-leading equity products and protocols, through a single stock purchase on a regulated exchange. Currently listed on U. S. (OTC: DEFTF) and Canadian (NEO:DEFI) exchanges. For more information or to subscribe to receive company updates and financial information, visit our website at valour.com =======================

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Anthony Pompliano?

  What's up everyone? This is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, simply the best podcast out there. Now let's kick this thing off. Matt Garcia is a TikTok star. He's got over 4 million followers and he's got a number of other accounts that he's built and scaled with millions of followers as well. In this conversation, we talk about TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, content creation, the business behind creators, and what and how he would go build brand new accounts today. I really enjoyed this conversation with Matt. Hope you guys enjoy it as well. Let's get into this episode and let us know what you think at the end.

• 0:37Speaker 01

  Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

• 1:01Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, guys. Bang, bang. I've got Matt here. I'm in my mid 30s and one of the most popular questions I get over and over and over again is people saying, what is TikTok? When I think of TikTok, I think of the geopolitical concerns. I think of a bunch of people in tech being like, we should support it. We should ban it. We should whatever. But one thing you can't deny is that it is this massive platform that young people are definitely using. You have multiple accounts that are very popular on TikTok. Like, why is TikTok working? And like, help people understand, like, what exactly is going on on TikTok for those that aren't there?

• 1:33Speaker 02

  Yeah. First off, thank you for having me.

• 1:36Anthony Pompliano?

  Of course.

• 1:36Speaker 02

  It's an honor. I feel like you're, you're kind of like a north star for a lot of like business creators. So I'm like, I'm honored to be here. But yeah, I think as far as TikTok goes, the main reason that I think it works is that like, the attention span is getting shorter and shorter, right? And so TikTok gives you sort of, I guess, both as the creator and as a consumer, it gives you this like, instant gratification, where it's like, if you don't want to see something, if you're watching the video, if you're uninterested, you can just keep scrolling and you'll find a video that you like very quickly because their algorithm is so good. So I think like in short, the reason that it works so well is that it's just, it's easy.

• 2:21Anthony Pompliano?

  So we saw 2020, I think maybe was like a big year from a explosion of TikTok. Obviously, a bunch of people got these huge audiences. They became like culturally relevant and they've kind of spanned from there. I've seen a lot of people build their audience first on TikTok and then try to go elsewhere. Should we read into that as to like, this is a good place to build an initial audience, but like, there's not a lot of money to be made? Or like, why are people maybe building the audiences initially there and then trying to get on these other platforms?

• 2:49Speaker 02

  Well, I think, I guess like a similar thing happened to me where I'd always had friends who were, you know, making money on YouTube and TikTok came around and it just seemed like a really easy thing to get into. And so I started making TikTok videos and it was super easy. And then I think everyone kind of goes through this thing where they're like, okay, well, what am I going to do next? Right? And I think like the obvious next step is YouTube, just because it's like more complicated. You want to like grow as a creator and I guess like an artist of like making videos.

• 3:21Anthony Pompliano?

  Still video content, still similar in terms of the types of content you could create with shorts versus TikTok or whatever.

• 3:28Speaker 02

  Right.

• 3:30Speaker 02

  The problem is that I've seen it translate well, very rarely.

• 3:34Anthony Pompliano?

  Interesting.

• 3:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:35Anthony Pompliano?

  Why is that?

• 3:37Speaker 02

  Well, I just think like, I just think that long form YouTube videos and TikTok videos are very, very different. You know, TikTok is more like a lot of attention grabbing as where YouTube, I believe, is like a little more, you know, relatable, authentic. And so at the same time, if you have a lot of Instagram followers and you built that organically, I guess nowadays, like not through reels, those followers genuinely are like, or generally are like really there for you. And so if you post about your YouTube channel, a lot of them will probably convert, but on TikTok, it's not that way.

• 4:20Anthony Pompliano?

  So when you think about TikTok, one of the things I've heard maybe Reed from Knight Media talk about is like, if he had to choose where he'd want people to have an audience, it'd be YouTube, long form YouTube, because they know who you are, they get emotionally attached, all this stuff. Do you think that? TikTok doesn't have that? Or like, what is the relationship? You have, you know, almost four million followers on TikTok. What is your relationship and the content you create with the audience? If you tweeted out or posted somewhere that you were going to be somewhere, would people show up? Would they not show up? Like, how does this work?

• 4:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, there's definitely a lot less of that with TikTokers, right? Like, there's a lot less. If I had four million on YouTube, my experience would be totally different.

• 5:05Speaker 02

  And so I think that has a lot to do with the fact that people are spending less time with you.

• 5:10Speaker 02

  You know, if somebody, if somebody is on YouTube and they're posting two long form videos a week, let's say they're 10, 15 minutes, those people are spending 20 to 30 minutes a week with you. And at the same time, like YouTubers, the entire video generally are like, not just spending that entire time trying to keep the retention rate up. They're not being like overly, you know, energetic.

• 5:38Speaker 02

  And so I think with YouTube, it kind of feels like you're friends a little bit more. As where with TikTok, it's like just these little like tidbits of information. People might think it's interesting, so maybe they'll follow you. But with YouTube, it's, yeah, I think it's just a totally different ballgame.

• 5:52Anthony Pompliano?

  Everyone wants to know, how do you make money on TikTok? You are unique in that you have a personal account that's pretty big. You've created other accounts that are big. You run accounts for other companies and there's like advertising. Talk a little bit maybe about your account to start. How did you grow it? And then how do you actually end up monetizing?

• 6:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I started my TikTok account just with the goal of like making videos about things that I cared about, which generally was business or content creator related, like creator economy stuff.

• 6:29Speaker 02

  And so after a little bit, I kind of realized what worked well, which was like, you know, making sure you're hooking people, making sure that at the end of the video, they're satisfied with what they watched,

• 6:40Speaker 02

  et cetera. And we can get into, you know, more of the, more of those things after.

• 6:44Anthony Pompliano?

  But explain that. So there's like a formula for a video?

• 6:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:48Anthony Pompliano?

  Do you make?

• 6:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think, I think it depends on the person, right? Like, I think no matter who you are, it needs to be interesting in the beginning.

• 6:58Speaker 02

  And so with me, it's like, I'll generally say something that sounds a little bit ridiculous in the beginning, uh, so that someone will be like, "What the hell is this guy talking about?" Right? Um, and so then they'll continue to watch the video and hopefully understand what I was saying in the beginning eventually. Um, so that's, that's kind of the goal there. But I think with different people, like, the format can be different. Um, like, there, there are people who have these, like, really great personalities naturally, like, on and off camera. And I think that some of those people can literally just, like, you know, put their phone up, press record, and say what they're thinking about, and for some reason, five million people, like, want to hear about it, you know? Um, so yeah, it's just, it's really interesting.

• 7:43Speaker 02

  There's, like, a ton of different ways to do it.

• 7:44Anthony Pompliano?

  So you catch their attention in the beginning. You mentioned that they're satisfied at the end. How do you measure that, or, or how do you think about making sure that happens?

• 7:52Speaker 02

  Well, I think it's just making sure that, like, in the beginning, you, you have to, like, kind of ride this line between, like, whether or not you're just, like, saying something that's, like, complete BS. Uh, or, like, like, I think for what I do, for example, like, I'll say something like, you know, "Andrew Tate is lying to everybody," right? Um, which I think a lot of people would disagree with. Uh, in some, in some areas, maybe I would disagree with that. Uh, so, like, you say something, like, general that makes people want to stay, and then, at the end, I think people would be like, "Okay, I get what he's saying," you know? Uh, as where if I were to say something totally ridiculous and then not be able to back it up at all, I think people would just be pissed off.

• 8:37Anthony Pompliano?

  So it's almost like, make a outlandish statement, a big statement, whatever terminology you want to use. You, you make some statement in the beginning, you grab people's attention, and then you use the rest of the video to basically explain what you, what you mean by that. And if you do a good job of catching their attention, and then they stay to get the explanation, they're satisfied at the end.

• 8:53Speaker 02

  Right. So, like, with, uh, I made a video, for example, when, like, Mr. Beast launched Beast Burger. Uh, in the beginning of that video, I could have just been like, "Hey, guys, you know, Mr. Beast launched Beast Burger, here's why it's cool, or here's why it's important." Uh, but the beginning of that video was like, "Mr. Beast is going to be the first content creator billionaire ever, and here's why," right? So it's like... It's super short. They don't know like exactly what I'm talking about. So like sparks a little bit of like curiosity. And then by the end of their, by the end of the video, they're hopefully like, okay, I get it.

• 9:28Anthony Pompliano?

  And on TikTok, do they need to do anything to help it go viral? Or is it just if they just stay and watch like YouTube? If they just stay and watch, YouTube's like, cool. Completion times is really important. We're going to send this viral. A podcast has no virality to it in the audio format. And so somebody has to literally share it or word of mouth. And that's really the only way that it gets popular. What is TikTok?

• 9:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it's pretty similar to something like YouTube or, you know, Instagram, where I think everything is weighed pretty, pretty well. Like if a video has a ton of shares, comments, likes. And I think TikTok pays a lot of attention to like exactly what people are doing. So I think like, if a lot of people are going to your page and watching your other videos and following you from like one specific video, then they'll push that video more.

• 10:16Anthony Pompliano?

  And how much of this is just TikTok's algorithm is better than YouTube's?

• 10:23Anthony Pompliano?

  Or is that not even true?

• 10:25Speaker 02

  I don't know that it's true. I think they're just really different. I think TikTok can like, or I guess, I guess maybe it is like better in a way. Cause I think TikTok can target people like even more, you know? If you, if you go to YouTube, you know, assuming you have a YouTube account and you go to the homepage, there's probably a video or two that you're interested in there. But I think with TikTok, if you've been scrolling on the TikTok for you page for like a month, at some point, like, you know, eight out of 10 videos that they show you, you're interested in, which is probably a little scary to think about.

• 11:02Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. Well, and I guess also, as they get better and better,

• 11:09Anthony Pompliano?

  and they get more data, the big question I have is YouTube's been doing this now for, you know, forever. How much harder is it for YouTube, just given the amount of content they have to, you know, kind of pick through to show you versus a TikTok, which still has a ton of videos, most popular website, all, you know, all the things we know.

• 11:28Anthony Pompliano?

  But I'd love to see, what are the total number of videos on YouTube versus the total number of videos uploaded on TikTok? My guess is YouTube is still like much, much more from a video standpoint. I'd be surprised if it wasn't. And so YouTube has a problem, uh, which is a good problem to have, but it's still a problem. You gotta find through billions of videos, which is the one to show Matt that, so that he watches it versus, you know, the next one, right?

• 11:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, definitely. Um, and also YouTube videos have a longer lifespan, which I think makes that problem even more relevant to them.

• 11:59Anthony Pompliano?

  Explain that.

• 12:00Speaker 02

  So on TikTok, if a video like explodes, usually like nine times out of 10, of course there's outliers, I'll, I'll notice that it dies, uh, you know, after five or seven days, even if it's like huge, right? Like, uh, I think my biggest video got like almost 25 million views. And so that video was only really growing for like, it's probably closer to seven days, but that was it. As a video on YouTube gets 25 million views, it's probably been up for a little while. Um, so yeah, I think, I think with TikTok, that problem is a little bit easier for them too, because like they're really feeding you like new-ish things, at least in comparison to YouTube. Um, so yeah, that's a really good point.

• 12:45Speaker 02

  I've never thought of that.

• 12:46Anthony Pompliano?

  So when you think of your personal account, what are the different ways that you monetize there? Is it all advertising based or do you have other, other things you do?

• 12:54Speaker 02

  Yeah. Um, so with my personal account forever, it's just simply been ads. Um, which is scary in comparison to YouTubers, cause most YouTubers assuming, you know, you're not like, uh, really inappropriate or using a ton of copyrighted stuff, you're monetized, you're usually making enough money, uh, if you're doing it full-time, like you're usually making pretty consistent money month over month. Um, so for me in the beginning, it was scary, right? Because one month you could make tens of thousands of dollars and for three months, you could make nothing.

• 13:30Anthony Pompliano?

  Zero.

• 13:31Speaker 02

  Close to it, right? Uh, especially cause like the TikTok Creator Fund pays essentially nothing. Like the most amount of money that I've ever made from the TikTok Creator Fund, uh,

• 13:43Speaker 02

  I think I had gotten around fifty or sixty million views in that month. And I, I wanna say I made around like fifteen hundred bucks.

• 13:52Anthony Pompliano?

  Wow.

• 13:52Speaker 02

  So if you're getting that amount of views, like

• 13:55Anthony Pompliano?

  On YouTube.

• 13:56Speaker 02

  Your email is flooded with brand deals to the point where like that fifteen hundred bucks means nothing. As where, yeah, on YouTube, it's like, it's, it's not even comparable. Like, it's not even close.

• 14:07Anthony Pompliano?

  So fifty to sixty million views in a month, uh, your email was flooded?

• 14:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:13Anthony Pompliano?

  And what are people saying? Like, hey, make me a video. Can you mention my product in a video? Like, what are they looking for?

• 14:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's mostly brands. And I mean, you know, ninety percent of the emails you get are like some random Amazon seller, like, looking to see if you'll sell their purple wigs, right? Like, something that's totally irrelevant, um, and something that's just not gonna work, and most of them will offer you like two hundred bucks. That's the other thing, too, is like the, I think the ad rates, there's this huge like gap, right? Where some, I think TikTok is still so new that like some people don't realize like what the rates are like, so it's really all over the place.

• 14:48Anthony Pompliano?

  Does that help or hurt you?

• 14:52Speaker 02

  Hmm, probably mostly hurt, cuz like most of the time you have to kinda justify it, um, and be like, hey, listen, like, you could go to this person, this person, and this person, who's like, I guess, in the same like bucket as me, but they charge just as much, if not more. And so you have to like, there's this extra step of like, you kinda have to prove to a company, like, why your rates are the way they are. But I think it's all getting better now. Like, I feel like a lot of brands have, uh, you know, given pushback a little bit less.

• 15:21Anthony Pompliano?

  And how do you decide? So your inbox is full of all these people who are like, hey, advertise my product from purple wigs to things you actually might do. How do you decide which ones to work with and which ones not? Is it a price thing? Is it a product thing? Is it a combination?

• 15:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, uh, it's definitely a combination. I think a lot of people would be kind of ashamed to say like, the money is important, cuz like, you'd like to think that it's not. Uh, but it is, right? Like, if the perfect

• 15:44Anthony Pompliano?

  You're running a business, of course it's important.

• 15:46Speaker 02

  If the, if the perfect fit of a company, like, you know that like the ad's gonna work out well, they fit right in with your page, your audience isn't gonna like be pissed off at you for promoting them. If you should be getting ten thousand dollars and they're offering you five hundred, like, you're way too far apart, right?

• 16:04Speaker 02

  So yeah, I think it's definitely a combination, like.

• 16:06Anthony Pompliano?

  And what do you do in that scenario? So like you, you want $10,000 for a video. Somebody offers you 500. Do you negotiate? Do you try to send them comps? Do you just say, come back when you got $10,000? Like, like, how do you handle that?

• 16:17Speaker 02

  Um, well, if nothing's aligned, you know, sometimes, I guess it depends on like how flooded the inbox is, but sometimes it's like a no answer kind of situation.

• 16:27Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, of course.

• 16:29Speaker 02

  But yeah, I mean, otherwise, like definitely.

• 16:32Anthony Pompliano?

  If it's the perfect company, like if you're like, man, this is gonna fly on the page.

• 16:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, um, well, it depends. Like if it's a startup, there have been times where I've been like, okay, well, maybe we can make this up in equity. Right? Like if I really, if I'm, if I really think, and I have a few friends who are like very familiar with like the VC space. So I'll like ask them, hey, what do you think about this company? And they'll check out like, you know, how much funding they have and like who's backing them and like, kind of give me their thoughts. So if they're willing to like, uh, give in and like make that up with equity, then there have been a few times where like, I've done that. Yeah.

• 17:11Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. Okay. So it's all advertising on your page. Why don't you sell things? You don't know what to sell? Is it, that's not kind of how TikTok works?

• 17:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, um, well, yeah, I think, I think it's kind of a combination of both. Like on TikTok, you really need to be like a certain type of creator to be able to sell stuff. Just because your audience isn't quite as engaged as if you were on YouTube.

• 17:39Speaker 02

  And so, yeah, I think for me, it's like, it's much easier to just stick with the brand deals. And, and obviously recently, like I've started with selling like B2B, right? Like we were talking about before we started the podcast, like, uh, I've been running brands TikTok accounts for them. So I think that like through, through that and like, uh, advertising, those are probably, at least for my account, the like most plausible ways to, to make money.

• 18:11Anthony Pompliano?

  So you go to a brand, we'll talk about which brands in a second. But you go to a brand, you say, hey, I'll run your account for you. What are they expecting you to do? Is it like you literally get them the handle and like set up the page? And then you tell them what to post? Are you creating all the content? How does this work?

• 18:25Speaker 02

  Yeah. Um, so I think it's obviously super important for brands to be on TikTok, right? Like. Or at least be making short form video. Like we were talking before about how like TikTok might be banned, people are scared. But I don't think short form video is going away. And so I think that that's like something that a lot of brands and especially I think startups should be focusing on now. And a lot of them over the last like two years have started. But I think like my whole pitch is kind of like, you know, if you're going to grab some kid who, you know, was in studied marketing and is fresh out of college and you're going to pay him a hundred grand, why wouldn't you just come to me, right? Like I've been, I have like real experience with this.

• 19:09Speaker 02

  And so I think a lot of brands now, hopefully, will start coming to me and if not me, people like me to, to do that.

• 19:20Anthony Pompliano?

  I've always thought you could go get a marketing degree or if you show up with like a hundred thousand followers or, you know, in this case, millions of followers on an account. If you wanted to go get a job at one of these companies and it was like you verse like the degree, you're going to win it all day long because you're like, cool, that person like read some books and like listened to a professor, but like I know how to do this. Like here's proof.

• 19:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:42Anthony Pompliano?

  Right? And so it is that real world experience. This is true of everything, like in sales, right? If you show up to the job interview and someone's like, oh, I have a sales degree and somebody else is like, nah, man, like I got three leads where, who do I send these to internally? Right? People go, I guess that guy could do the job.

• 19:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, definitely. And so as far as expectations goes, it's really all over the place, right? Cause like a lot of brands are just in totally different spots, you know? I guess this is a good time to bring this up, like BlackRock's TikTok account, for example.

• 20:13Anthony Pompliano?

  Which you guys run.

• 20:14Speaker 02

  Right? So they already had a TikTok account set up and they already knew that they wanted their employees to be in the videos.

• 20:23Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 20:24Speaker 02

  So their expectation was just like, hey, we have this setup. But, you know, we could probably use a little more force behind this. How do you do this? Right? And so.

• 20:34Anthony Pompliano?

  And do they have like a, so for context, you got your account, you've got other brand accounts. You also run BlackRock's Twitter account or a TikTok account. And for those that are like, wait, BlackRock like the, the BlackRock? Yes, BlackRock like the trillions of dollars of assets has a TikTok that you're running in, in partnership with them. Who's coming up with the idea? Like, let's just go through step by step. Like, okay, you work with a brand like BlackRock. Who comes up with the ideas? Are you like, hey, guys, here's 10 ideas that you could do? Or are they coming to you and they're like, here's 10 things that we want to do, like make it go viral?

• 21:08Speaker 02

  So this is interesting. I guess we'll like go back to the beginning of my partnership with them. So I ended up connecting with someone from their, in their social media department. And the whole TikTok thing was actually, it was Larry Fink's idea. He was like, we gotta get on TikTok.

• 21:24Anthony Pompliano?

  Larry Fink wanted to get on TikTok?

• 21:25Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 21:26Anthony Pompliano?

  Jesus.

• 21:27Speaker 02

  Wild. And so they were like, we gotta get going. Like, we're trying to push on this, right? Because like, of course, you know, when Larry wants something like, so it was like a very, it was like a very quick thing, right? So just kind of like threw me in. Because they were like, we want to, we were looking for someone who like, kind of knows what they're doing. And so I was like,

• 21:49Anthony Pompliano?

  And they just like email you? Is it like cold email?

• 21:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, so like, I was connected with this girl from there on LinkedIn. And I remember like she posted something one day, like, we're looking for a TikTok creator. And I was like, this is perfect. So I just like shot her a message and I was like, hey, I'm curious to hear more about this. So we started like, pretty like immediately. And so what I started doing with them and what I'm trying to do through Fuse, my agency, with like startups is, is just like, everything, right? Like a, like a door to door kind of service. Like, all you have to do is approve the videos, we'll do everything else. And so with them, it's, it's pretty much that. And obviously, like, their compliance is a little bit heavier

• 22:34Speaker 02

  than, than a bunch of like startups that I've worked with. So there's like a little bit more to the approval process. But yeah, I mean, it's essentially just like, me and then there's a few other people from their team who kind of like, suggest things that they should talk about, like, to ensure that they're like staying on brand, you know? So it's kind of like, they'll, they'll talk, like, they'll, they'll come with some ideas and say, hey, you know, we'd like to talk about this. And then I'll try to kind of, Figure out how to talk about that in a way that could be like digestible on TikTok.

• 23:08Anthony Pompliano?

  And then do you give them like a script and they have their employees like uh read the script? Or like, how does that work in terms of you getting the content you need to be able to edit? So the video is.

• 23:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, so once the video, once the like the video ideas are laid out, um we'll like write a bunch of scripts. Take them to like their legal and compliance, they'll uh you know, approve them, we'll make changes, whatever it may be. And then we'll like set like a filming day in their office and so uh it actually works out well because I live in New York and their headquarters is in New York, so uh like probably one day every like, you know, two weeks, three weeks or whatever.

• 23:43Anthony Pompliano?

  You roll into BlackRock?

• 23:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:45Anthony Pompliano?

  And do you bring like the influencer uh light and like a camera and everything?

• 23:50Speaker 02

  Which is crazy.

• 23:51Anthony Pompliano?

  You really do that?

• 23:52Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, I'll go into their office and it's it's nuts like uh I stick out, actually, well, I don't want to sound like, you know, like I'm like shitting on them at all. Because like their their marketing department is actually really like, it's mostly young people.

• 24:10Anthony Pompliano?

  Of course.

• 24:11Speaker 02

  Um but still it like it is BlackRock, right? So like it's like pretty like I go in like this like hat and everything and like nobody does that.

• 24:18Anthony Pompliano?

  And an LA Dodgers hat in New York?

• 24:20Speaker 02

  No, no, no, usually not. Actually, it's a sore topic right now. We don't got to talk about the Yankees. Um so yeah, so like I'll go into their office.

• 24:29Anthony Pompliano?

  They got you wearing Dodgers hats now?

• 24:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's uh.

• 24:33Anthony Pompliano?

  I say that as a Yankees fan, sorry.

• 24:34Speaker 02

  It's not good.

• 24:35Anthony Pompliano?

  Sorry.

• 24:35Speaker 02

  Are you from New York?

• 24:36Anthony Pompliano?

  Huh?

• 24:36Speaker 02

  Are you from New York?

• 24:37Anthony Pompliano?

  Uh, my whole family is, yeah. So when you walk into BlackRock, uh are they like excited?

• 24:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 24:46Anthony Pompliano?

  Like the employees are gonna be in the videos, they're like pumped.

• 24:48Speaker 02

  They're really cool, like we're we're like, we're all friends, it's nice.

• 24:51Anthony Pompliano?

  So they're like, cool, I get to be in a BlackRock TikTok video.

• 24:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, but like they're building, so like the, like I said, the marketing department's really cool. Uh but like if you walk into the lobby, you'll notice like most people are wearing like suits, they look real serious. And so like I remember the first day walking in.

• 25:07Anthony Pompliano?

  They have real jobs?

• 25:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, they have real jobs. So like I remember the first day walking in, there's like a ton of security on on the, in the lobby and whatever and uh the guy was like, hey, like you looking for something like, what's up?

• 25:19Anthony Pompliano?

  Why are you here?

• 25:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, like kind of just like, what are you doing? Like you don't look like you belong here.

• 25:23Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 25:24Speaker 02

  Um and I remember being like, yep, this is perfect. This is exactly what I wanted with my life. So yeah, yeah. So I'll go into their office, we'll film the videos and then, you know, edit them afterwards, get more approvals and then they get posted and stuff.

• 25:39Anthony Pompliano?

  And what is the purpose? Is it they want to be culturally relevant with a certain demographic? Do they want, is it like a recruiting thing? Is there, are they trying to make money? Are they trying to sell ads on their BlackRock TikTok account? Like, what is the purpose?

• 25:51Speaker 02

  Um, well, I think, I think there's two things. I don't want to, I don't want to get in any trouble. So I'm not speaking on behalf of them. This is speculation. But yeah, I think if I had to guess, I think that they're trying to like tap into the youth, which like, you know, anyone who's listening to this probably knows that the best way to tap into the youth nowadays is TikTok.

• 26:18Speaker 02

  And so I think that's part of it. And then also like their whole thing is really like an initiative to teach people more about like financial wellness. And so I think it's definitely like a long-term game for them. Cause it's not like, you know, in any of the videos, it's not advertising like Aladdin or any of their like products generally. I mean, sometimes like if it fits, like we could mention it. Like it doesn't hurt to just make mention of it. But um, yeah, I think so generally it's just like promoting financial wellness and I think perhaps planting the seed for the youth.

• 26:53Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. Which, which makes sense, right? Like if you were sitting there at that organization, you're like, man, I'm going to think really long-term. We probably want our brand in front of young people who may come work here one day, maybe customers one day, maybe buyers at other companies that we're trying to pit. Like it makes sense to get your brand in front of them. And for the cost or like if you think of it like from a risk return standpoint, it's like minimal cost compared to the potential benefit that they could get.

• 27:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, at this point, you know, it's been less than six months and they're, they're following his.

• 27:26Speaker 02

  I don't know, probably close to 10x by now.

• 27:29Anthony Pompliano?

  How many followers they have?

• 27:30Speaker 02

  Well, it's they have like, I think 17,000, 18,000.

• 27:35Anthony Pompliano?

  17, damn, they got more than me.

• 27:36Speaker 02

  Really?

• 27:37Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, I think we got 15.

• 27:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, and so but they started with, you know, I think 1500, something like that.

• 27:44Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, enough about BlackRock. They're not paying me any money. So this is not a BlackRock ad. Go follow them on TikTok.

• 27:51Anthony Pompliano?

  When you think about the business that you're running, though, so you run those types of accounts. There's also startup type accounts as well. Is it all brand recognition, brand awareness? Or do you see some of these companies trying to do like direct response stuff on TikTok as well? This episode is brought to you by Messari. Your days of spending hours scouring the internet for quality crypto insights are over. Messari is your one stop shop for all your crypto data and research needs. With Messari Pro, you gain access to exclusive, industry leading, long form daily research reports, daily crypto news, advanced asset screeners, and curated sets of charts and protocol metrics. You can try Messari Pro today and listeners of this podcast will get 25% off the Messari Pro membership

• 28:32Anthony Pompliano?

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• 29:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I think it's a little bit of both, right? I think it's, I think it kind of depends on like where the company's at. Some of the startups that are like super, you know,

• 30:09Speaker 02

  small, just getting started, they're looking for conversions.

• 30:14Speaker 02

  And so, but then there are some that are kind of just looking to like, looking for that awareness, right? Like, I don't know if you're familiar with Carrot.

• 30:22Speaker 02

  They do like credit cards, or they're technically not credit cards for influencers. So we are, hopefully by the time this is out, we'll start running their account. And they, for example, like, we're kind of just like, we want to make cool videos that like attract influencers specifically. Cause like their niche is like very specific, right? Like you can't get a Carrot card if, you know, you're not an influencer.

• 30:50Speaker 02

  And then there are other companies, like there's one, also not sure if you're familiar, it's called Here. They do like, this is not an ad, but they do like, it's like fractional, you can buy into like fractional shares of like Airbnb rentals.

• 31:05Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 31:06Speaker 02

  They're actually based here in Miami, too. So like, we're running theirs, and theirs is more targeted to like, we want conversions, right? Like, so yeah.

• 31:16Anthony Pompliano?

  So when you do like, content for them, are you in the videos? Or are you getting other people, or are you getting their employees?

• 31:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:25Speaker 02

  So I think like, I'm open to being in the videos, but the...

• 31:31Speaker 02

  I'm really focused on like scalability here. Cause one of the things that I noticed about like my ads on TikTok, for example, is like you can only have so many ads. So like, for example, the rest of this year, I can't take any more ads.

• 31:44Anthony Pompliano?

  Why? Cause you're sold out?

• 31:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, pretty much. Cause like you can't, uh, you know, if, if half your videos are ads, like you're just gonna destroy your audience. And so I've noticed that with this, it's, it's pretty scalable. Like, uh, I can, I like to spend a lot of time with like the people who I work with, who are like touching this so that they can like figure out how I think about things and can like sort of start to do things the way that I would. Uh, like Reese, for example, has been like a huge help with all of this and, uh, he's been working with me for over a year now, maybe even close to two.

• 32:24Anthony Pompliano?

  How'd you two meet?

• 32:26Speaker 02

  Uh, so Reese actually sent me a, like a cold email. Um, and I was like, yeah, this seems interesting. Sure. Cause his whole thing was like, uh, I, I'm just really interested in this. Like I'll do it for free. So he didn't even get paid for like six months or whatever, right? And then whatever. He was, he was great and he graduated college and now it's like a full-time thing. And so, yeah, like I, I think the goal is to like, kind of like have a balance between like retaining as much quality as I can and also like having the capability to scale. Cause it's like, how do we put out more videos? How do we put out better videos?

• 33:08Speaker 02

  And how do we also make sure that brands feel like they're getting the proper attention from me? Because that is usually like a pretty big part of the, the pitch. And so, yeah, I mean, I think, I think it's pretty much just about like finding good people, which I'm sure you know, is like the toughest and one of the most important things. Um, and then also like,

• 33:31Speaker 02

  Kind of being, you know, strict with like which brands we choose to work with.

• 33:37Speaker 02

  Because like I think it's really tough, like when, when a company will like, is willing to give you a bunch of money, right? But you don't want anything to look bad. Like you don't want your brand to look bad. If, if the company is, no offense, boring, and you, there's just no content opportunities there, like, I'm just, it doesn't make sense even to get paid, even if you're getting paid to like, take that time to make,

• 34:02Speaker 02

  you know, videos for an account that might not really do anything.

• 34:04Anthony Pompliano?

  There, there is, I bet you that we could make 10 times more money across all of the different advertising deals that we've done over the years. We could have made easily 10 times more money if we accepted all of the boring people, the people that we thought were like, eh, not something I really want to be associated with, either because of the people, because of the product, because of the market, whatever. If you have a growing audience or a big audience, I think that people underestimate how much opportunity there is. But the people who stay in this game for a long time, you have to make sure that you pick correctly, right? And, and it feels like TikTok is like that on steroids. Like it's the wild, wild west.

• 34:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. And, and I think like, you get tested a lot, right? Like recently-

• 34:52Anthony Pompliano?

  What's a test that you went through?

• 34:54Speaker 02

  Uh, it was very recent.

• 34:55Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay. Don't use names.

• 34:57Speaker 02

  Well, I'll say the brand's name. But it was a-

• 35:00Anthony Pompliano?

  I'll give you $5 if you say the name. No, I'm just kidding.

• 35:03Speaker 02

  Five bucks? I'll take it.

• 35:07Anthony Pompliano?

  See? He'll do anything for money.

• 35:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was a, it was a, like a sports betting and other types of betting thing. And they were really, really pushy about like, basically like, you need to encourage people in a legal way to start gambling. And we want you to get on Twitch and start streaming your self gambling and we'll give you money for that and whatever. And they offered like, it was like a full year deal and it was like close to a million dollars.

• 35:40Anthony Pompliano?

  A million dollars for a full year for you to post on TikTok and stream on Twitch.

• 35:44Speaker 02

  Which by the way, is definitely, is much, that's a much bigger, I don't want to give like the wrong impression. It's a much bigger offer than like I have ever gotten for like one single thing.

• 35:58Speaker 02

  So that was like testing, right? Cause it's like, almost a million bucks. Like, I don't have to sweat for the next year.

• 36:06Speaker 02

  But at the end of the day, it's just like, I think, I think it would just weigh down on my conscience too much.

• 36:12Anthony Pompliano?

  Because it's pulling people towards gambling.

• 36:15Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, especially with like the way that they wanted their messaging to be was not like, you know, I think, I think some people could maybe see it differently. If it's, if it's the type of thing where, um, you know, you kind of just show yourself gambling and maybe like an interesting clip or whatever. But this was specifically like, hey, you know, they'll, they'll go ahead and, uh, you know, double your first deposit. And, you know, like a lot of just incentives for people to start gambling. And I think especially on TikTok with like younger audiences, like you don't want to plant that seed.

• 36:46Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. I, I think the younger audience, but also, uh, one of the things I've thought a lot about, we've worked with some of the gambling companies before, but it's always been from a perspective of like, this is entertainment. You should use minimal dollars, right? We've been approached by people, uh, and thankfully we're not in like sports or wherever where this is like crazy. Who are like, put all of your money in and like you'll get rich, right? And, and I think that there is, uh, it's very similar in crypto as well, right? Like, if you think whether, uh, there is like buying Bitcoin, um, on an exchange, whether it is in your retirement account. Like there's all these different products now and I always remind the brands like, You shouldn't tell people that they should or should not do something. You shouldn't pass judgment on them.

• 37:30Anthony Pompliano?

  Right? Obviously, you want people to use your stuff, but like the message that will resonate is actually one that is rational, not one that's like super over the top. And so, and I see some people who are like super over the top and you're just like, I got it. Like they were shopping a deal and it kind of went around and like, I'll talk to two or three friends and they're like, nah, you know, not for me, not for me. And then like, I'll see the ad somewhere and I'll be like, oh, they found a home.

• 37:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:54Anthony Pompliano?

  Right? And it, and it does make you think a little bit as to like, what's going on?

• 37:58Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I think even as far as the gambling stuff goes, you know, those companies have to do their thing, right? Like they, they gotta make ads and same with creators, like they need to do that too. And so I wanna like follow up with my previous statement by saying like, I've also done some and probably will continue to do some of those ads. I think like, just with those, like the messaging has to be right, you know? So I don't want someone to watch this podcast and see me post an ad for a company and be like, you, you liar.

• 38:26Anthony Pompliano?

  But, but I think that there is this like, people talk all the time about product market fit, right? And, uh, you know, very well understood now in the startup world, but like, one of the things that we have found, uh, across, you know, I mean, I talked to a lot of people who have audiences who are kind of in this world and over and over and over again, people are like, look, if I find the right brand that aligns with me, my values, my ethics, whatever, uh, and

• 38:55Anthony Pompliano?

  with my audience and what they're looking for or whatever, fill a need that they're trying to find a solution to, it's a home run.

• 39:02Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 39:02Anthony Pompliano?

  And sometimes people forget, like there's distractions, right? There's money, there's views, there's like all these different things. Sometimes it's just being associated with a certain brand, right? Some people are like, oh, that's gonna be better for me or whatever. Um, but if you can align those three things, like it ends up being a win-win, uh, for the person who's creating the content, for the brand, and then ultimately for the audience as well.

• 39:22Speaker 02

  Definitely. I mean, I think, I think I kind of like to see those, uh, the brand relationships, the same way you would see like, you know, romantic relationships, right?

• 39:32Anthony Pompliano?

  Explain.

• 39:34Speaker 02

  So there are.

• 39:37Speaker 02

  There are companies that you can work with very briefly. You know, there's some instant gratification.

• 39:44Anthony Pompliano?

  Like a one night stand.

• 39:45Speaker 02

  Correct. And so I think a lot of people are, you know, I don't think it's the worst thing in the world. I just think a lot of people are like tempted with taking those deals. And then there are companies that like I've found, for example, where I'm like, I will get on my knee and ask you to marry me. Like, let's just sign the biggest contract we can. If you want to sign for 10 years, let's do it, you know?

• 40:08Speaker 02

  And so, yeah, I just, I think that like, I think those two are strangely similar. But yeah, I think it is totally a home run. Like, if you can find a brand that works perfectly. I think another big thing too is like how the people are at the brand. Like, the people who you interact with, are they cool? Are they a pain to work with?

• 40:29Speaker 02

  So, yeah, I mean, if you can find a brand with cool people that do something that your audience is interested in, that you're interested in, and that have the budget, like, yeah, it's square.

• 40:39Anthony Pompliano?

  I'm laughing because I've had all the experiences. Some of them, you're like, amazing. Like, literally, you got, I'll go to bat for you all day long, like, whatever I can do to help you. Others, you're like, when is the contract over? Right? And what I've found, actually, is the people in the second situation, they're almost never, like, they don't want to be doing it either, right? Like, there's, you know, you mentioned earlier your compliance stuff. There's sometimes an executive team that's like overbearing or trying to call the shots or what? Like, there's a bunch of different reasons why.

• 41:09Speaker 02

  Ad reads and stuff.

• 41:09Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, it's dumb stuff and everyone knows it's dumb, but like, it's just the situation they find themselves in. And so what I always remind them is if you're easy to work with and we understand your goals, there's a whole bunch of stuff that we can do because we can see opportunistic stuff. And like, we used to do these live stream, kind of like one-off things, right? So like, especially during 2020, I would just be at home and just be like, you know what? I got some stuff to say. And I just hit, you know, livestream on YouTube or whatever. And at the end, there'll be Q and A. People ask me questions. And so like, if I was working with an advertiser that like, I really believed in, and I understood what they were trying to accomplish and everything, somebody asked me a question, I'm like, one of our advertisers is so and so,

• 41:50Anthony Pompliano?

  like, here's why I like them, blah, blah, whatever. Like, that's not part of a contract. That's not anything. It's just, you want, like, you believe it's a solution for the audience, right?

• 42:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, 100%. And I mean, I do that all the time, too, where like, if a brand is really, really fair, um, you know, there, you guys like mutually agree on, you know, how many posts you have to make, how much money they're giving you. Oftentimes, like, I'll go out and wear, you know, some brand's hat on a podcast, or like, you know, I'll mention them in a live stream, or like, you know, show a little extra love on like their social media accounts, or something like that.

• 42:29Speaker 02

  And so, yeah, I think it's just about like, trying to have like, the most reasonable and like, amicable relationship.

• 42:35Anthony Pompliano?

  Talk to me about grandma. You, you, your grandmother is now TikTok famous, uh, from what I understand.

• 42:41Speaker 02

  Nonna Gracie.

• 42:41Anthony Pompliano?

  You showed me some of the videos, and they're hilarious.

• 42:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, um, so, it's around a year ago now that we started.

• 42:49Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 42:51Speaker 02

  My goal was to kind of figure out whether or not I had gotten lucky, right?

• 42:55Anthony Pompliano?

  Interesting.

• 42:56Speaker 02

  Hit like this wall where I was like, maybe a little bored of what I was doing. And I was like, let's do a test. So, I wanted everything to be working against me. That was my goal. I didn't want to be able to like, plug the page anywhere else. I didn't want to be in the videos. Um, and so I took my grandma for a few reasons. Uh, I guess, A, because it's difficult, because she's, no offense, nonna, old. Um, and she's, hey, she looks like she's 21, but she, you know, she's a little up there. You would never guess it. Uh, and people on TikTok are super young, right? So like, how do you get young people to be interested in an old person? That's probably

• 43:36Speaker 02

  a unique challenge on TikTok. Um, and so we started making these videos, and I kind of like, sat down one day and just, obviously, like, knowing and being close to her my whole life, kind of wrote down like, the things that, uh, I was most interested in, and that I saw people who she knew were most interested in when it comes to like, her personality. And so like, A, she has great stories, right? Like, she's a, she's an immigrant. She came here from Italy, like, at eighteen, by herself. Obviously couldn't speak English. Like, she's got a really interesting story. So, stories and her cooking. So, I was like, what if I just combine these a little bit? And so, uh, she'll, she does these cooking videos, uh, and she'll just add in, like, little tidbits

• 44:19Speaker 02

  of like, you know, I remember back in Italy, we used to eat this dish because, you know, like, I think she was talking about beans and, like, they couldn't afford meat, so they had beans and whatever. Like, these heartwarming stories, um, that I think, like, a very specific niche of people can appreciate to, like, an extreme level because it's so rare on the internet. But it's also, like, something that people just generally would see and, you know, even if you're, you don't really care about, like, Italian culture, like, most people would look at that and be like, oh, she's cute. So, yeah, we started that, uh-

• 44:52Anthony Pompliano?

  She making cash?

• 44:53Speaker 02

  Huh?

• 44:54Anthony Pompliano?

  She making cash?

• 44:55Speaker 02

  So, a little. Uh, but she probably could be doing much better. I just, it's a time thing.

• 45:03Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 45:04Speaker 02

  You know? I think at this point, it's more of a, it's more of, like, a passion thing. Um, cause she also, like, loves it, you know? It's like something for her to do. She probably never thought that she'd be really doing anything, like, I guess this isn't, like, real, like, work for her, but, uh, you know, it's like, it's something. She's gotta show up and she's gotta, like, she obviously, like, has to be, uh, she has to perform on camera.

• 45:25Anthony Pompliano?

  Does she get, like, does she put, like, specific clothes on and, like-

• 45:29Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 45:30Anthony Pompliano?

  And she's like, oh, this is my look for today? Like, do I look good?

• 45:32Speaker 02

  Uh-huh. Yeah, cause she's like, she's super old school, so she, like, she wants to make sure that, like, do I look good? Is my hair right? Is my shirt good? Like, she's, uh, she's really funny. I also got really lucky with her, too, cause, like, her, she has a great personality. So, like, I don't think it would've worked with anyone. Um, but yeah, she's a great personality, like, she laughs a lot. It's like, it's a personal thing, too, because, like, you know, it gets us to spend more time together, uh, so, like, it's like a bonding thing. And then also, I realized, like- Obviously, it'd be cool to like make her a bunch of money, but I think more than anything, I wanna, I wanna like take responsibility for like making her live the best years of her life at a point in her life where most people don't, right?

• 46:17Speaker 02

  Like usually, uh, people have their best years when they're super young. So it's like, who's to say that she, she can't like just have a great few years?

• 46:26Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 46:26Speaker 02

  So like, uh, I guess like some of the ways that I've done that is like, um, we spoke about Carrot before, they do this whole thing where they now like get billboards in Times Square for like a bunch of creators. And so I surprised her with a billboard in Times Square with like a picture of the two of us, which was like just the most ridiculous thing.

• 46:48Anthony Pompliano?

  What was her reaction?

• 46:49Speaker 02

  Oh, my God, she was, she was crying, I swear to you for hours. Like, these guys were here, were there and like, she was, because it was like, it was super emotional for her, cause like, she was saying that like, she, she immediately thought back to like when she got here and obviously, things were much different back then. Uh, so she took a boat here and it was like, whatever, nine days, she was by herself, 18 years old. When she got here, it wasn't like, uh, you know, let me call my dad, cause her, her dad was already here, like, let me call my dad and tell him to come pick me up, right? Like, they didn't have cell phones, obviously, like, they didn't, a lot of like small like logistical things that we wouldn't think about. Um, so she was like, you know, I couldn't, I remember like, you know, getting to the port, finding my dad, we walked to Times Square and like, that was like the first thing that

• 47:33Speaker 02

  she did when she got here. And so I remember her saying that like, uh, because of like some of the like adversity that she had faced like through her life, she always felt like she was, I guess like, in a way like less than like a lot of people who had more opportunity, uh, because like she didn't get to go to college, like she didn't get to live like the classic like nine to five life. Uh, and so I think like that made her like especially emotional, cause it was like, oh, well, in, in a world where like my entire life, I didn't think that I could ever impact a lot of people or do things that, you know, most people can't do, uh, I'm doing that, right? And so it's like, I think that kind of made her emotional to like remember going to Times

• 48:17Speaker 02

  Square all the way back when she came here and now to going to Times Square and like, you know, being on a massive billboard.

• 48:25Anthony Pompliano?

  I mean, with a million followers on TikTok, do you think that you can get her to make more money in a single year now than she made in her entire life?

• 48:33Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Yeah.

• 48:35Anthony Pompliano?

  It's kind of crazy.

• 48:35Speaker 02

  Definitely. Definitely. Um, yeah, it's, it's nuts. Um, and like I said, I haven't done that, but I should.

• 48:45Anthony Pompliano?

  Why not?

• 48:46Speaker 02

  Yeah. I, like I said, it's mostly like a time thing. Um, and also it's, maybe it isn't mostly a time thing. I think it's also partially about like doing it right as well. Like right now, we're working on merch. Um, as we're like, for me, I don't think my merch would crush it.

• 49:03Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 49:04Speaker 02

  Uh, but with her, and this is like an interesting thing, like that I learned through this about like the differences between people's audiences is like, she has a much more attached audience. Like I swear to you, every time she leaves the house, someone is like, I need to take a picture with you.

• 49:19Anthony Pompliano?

  No way. She's getting stopped in the streets?

• 49:21Speaker 02

  All the time. Every single, like literally every, every time she leaves the house. Um, and she loves it.

• 49:26Anthony Pompliano?

  She like it?

• 49:27Speaker 02

  It's gotten to the point, yeah, she loves it. Uh, it's gotten to the point where like, she doesn't even mention it to me anymore. Like in the beginning, she was like, oh my God, this is crazy. Someone, you know, someone recognized me. Can you believe it? And now she's just like, she's like a celebrity.

• 49:38Anthony Pompliano?

  Of course they did.

• 49:39Speaker 02

  She's just regular to her. Yeah.

• 49:41Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 49:42Speaker 02

  Um, and so, yeah, her, her audience is like super attached and a lot of them are like, you know, I, I lost my grandma like however many years or months ago. And so like, uh, like Nona Gracie just really resonates with me and it like reminds me of my grandma or whatever it may be. So, yeah, it's super cool. And so like, yeah, we're working on merch. Um, also looking at like some sort of avenue to like, kind of monetize her recipes. Maybe like a cookbook or a recipe subscription or something along those lines, but.

• 50:11Anthony Pompliano?

  It's a no brainer.

• 50:12Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. I think so too. Um, yeah. So thanks. I'm inspired now. I'm gonna, I'm gonna make her, I'm gonna make her a million dollars next year.

• 50:22Anthony Pompliano?

  What, um, uh, what are the steps? So like somebody watches this, like, all right, cool. I got it. TikTok's big. I should be on TikTok. Uh, I want to build an account. What, what would you say are like the three to five steps that somebody should do immediately to grow on TikTok?

• 50:35Speaker 02

  Um, yeah. Okay. So I guess. Step number one is like, figure out your lane, right? Like, what are you interested in? And it could be anything. I think you see a lot of people who will decide things based off of, like, will decide what they're making videos about based off what they think what will, what will do well.

• 50:55Speaker 02

  And I, I really think anything could do well, right? I think it just depends on how you present it.

• 51:01Speaker 02

  But there, there is a market for everything. I mean, you know, obviously different, different like niches are, are like different sizes. But like, for example, if you absolutely own the basket weaving niche, like, you could probably monetize that really heavily, even if like the maximum capability for like your follower count is like 50,000. That could be like a gross underestimation. So basket weaving community, don't come at me, but.

• 51:32Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, so first is finding your lane.

• 51:33Speaker 02

  I think it's finding your lane, making sure it's like true to you.

• 51:37Speaker 02

  And then from there, I think, uh,

• 51:41Speaker 02

  I think consuming a lot of content, at least in the beginning, around the type of content that you, content that you want to make is super important just to like see, you know, what other people are doing and how other people are doing what you want to do well.

• 51:58Speaker 02

  So I think that that's like the second step. And then I think especially with TikTok, it's just like, go, right? Like, just do it. Which is like, I guess, like very cliche to say, but like the, it's almost like the more planning you do, like the more like, like theories you come up with, like maybe this will do better. As where like with a TikTok video, you could make one in 10, 15, 30 minutes max, if like you're really trying to make a good video. So it's like, how about you just test it, you know? And so I think that's kind of what I did was like. Exactly those steps and like just kind of tested things until they worked.

• 52:39Speaker 02

  And I sort of like leaned in on the, the things, the topics that worked and tried to like, you know, uh, remake them in a way and like kind of stuck with a format. And yeah, just like kept going. And then at some point, like obviously when you get to a certain amount of followers, um, brands start to reach out or you can like reach out to brands and like they'll be interested in working with you. And then from there, I think it's important to just like continue running it as a business. Like a lot of people I think don't do that. And I think that that's probably like one of the bigger like mistakes that I see.

• 53:14Anthony Pompliano?

  So I want to ask you a bunch of just rapid fire questions.

• 53:17Speaker 02

  Do it.

• 53:18Anthony Pompliano?

  The first is if you had to pick one Tik Tok account that you think absolutely crushes it, but people don't really know about it, what would you say?

• 53:26Speaker 02

  Oh, Blackrock Tik Tok.

• 53:30Speaker 02

  I'm kidding, I'm kidding. Um.

• 53:33Anthony Pompliano?

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• 54:16Anthony Pompliano?

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• 55:28Speaker 02

  Well, actually, no. Okay, I do believe that, but I won't pick that because it's too corny. Um, hmm. Okay, so this is, can I modify the question to it should be bigger?

• 55:42Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 55:44Speaker 02

  There's a guy, his name is JT Barnett. He makes like creator economy content and he has a bunch of followers, like he's crushing it. But I think he should be doing better.

• 55:54Anthony Pompliano?

  Interesting. What's one trend in this whole creator economy thing that you disagree with or you think doesn't have legs to stay?

• 56:04Speaker 02

  Have you seen that? There's a, there's a new trend where people like, I suppose, like freestyle a song, like telling a random story. Have you seen this?

• 56:17Anthony Pompliano?

  No.

• 56:18Speaker 02

  There's like an instrumental that everybody uses. I'm, I forget the name of the actual song, but everyone basically throws on this instrumental and they'll tell a story, but pretend like they're like singing, but they're like, it's, it's always terrible. Like they're half singing and they're nothing like rhymes or goes together. It's just, it's really weird to me. I don't know.

• 56:39Anthony Pompliano?

  What you just described, not only doesn't sound like it's going to last, I'm surprised it ever became a thing.

• 56:43Speaker 02

  Yeah. Like, yeah, it is huge. Like some of these videos have like millions of likes. And I'm like, I cannot bear to like stand, stand more than 10 seconds of this.

• 56:53Anthony Pompliano?

  That's crazy. Who do you think is the most likely person from the creator economy to go on to build massive businesses, similar to a Mr. Beast, but hasn't yet started? Like, who do you think has the biggest opportunity?

• 57:06Speaker 02

  Uh, who hasn't yet started at all. I mean, I think like the Nelk Boys are doing a good job with doing what Mr. Beast is doing, but obviously at a smaller scale. But they've already started.

• 57:19Speaker 02

  I would just say anyone with like, anyone with like an extremely, cause if you have a, if you have a really captivated audience, I think people, this is probably a longer answer than you wanted. But like, I think you realize at some point that instead of promoting things that are in line with my brand that are owned by other people, why wouldn't I just go and own those things? Right? So, uh, I think anyone, for example, like my grandma, has big potential for that, right? Like she could theoretically, like she could start like a whole merch brand surrounding like the Italian culture and it could explode, right?

• 57:56Anthony Pompliano?

  Tomato sauce, the whole thing, yeah.

• 57:57Speaker 02

  Yeah. She could, yeah, she could, she could go into like, you know, consumer goods and start selling things in, in grocery stores and like, that would be, that would be wild. I think she's got potential.

• 58:08Anthony Pompliano?

  If you had to pick YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, you get to upload one video to go viral, which one has the highest probability of going viral? If you had to pick one of those three platforms to build an entire business around, which one would you pick?

• 58:22Speaker 02

  YouTube.

• 58:23Anthony Pompliano?

  If you had to pick one for the highest degree of creator satisfaction, which would you pick?

• 58:30Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 58:33Speaker 02

  I think it's a toss up between TikTok and YouTube, but I think I'll go with TikTok.

• 58:36Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay. You shit all over Instagram and all three of those answers and didn't pick them for anything. What, why do you think Instagram maybe doesn't keep up with the other two platforms?

• 58:49Speaker 02

  I, I don't know. Yeah. I guess I'm not the biggest fan of Instagram. It's just like, I think TikTok and YouTube are just really running it right now. Cause All that Instagram really has going for them is like, they don't even push like photos and stuff anymore. You know, like, which is like their whole thing.

• 59:06Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 59:07Speaker 02

  So it's like, I feel like Instagram is kind of just trying to be TikTok right now.

• 59:10Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. But it, so yes, but doesn't that make it easier for the people creating content? Where like, it used to be like long form YouTube video, photos on Instagram, TikTok video, whatever. Now it's just like 60 seconds or less vertical video, put it in all three platforms and like, you're good.

• 59:25Speaker 02

  Definitely. I just think, I think long term, it's like, at what point do the consumers get bored? Like if Instagram just keeps doing what they're doing, and I could be wrong, this is like pure speculation, but like, if they keep doing what they're doing, at what point do users realize like, I could just be on TikTok? You know, like, do I, do I need all of these accounts and things going on?

• 59:47Speaker 02

  I don't know. I, I think that at some point, that could happen.

• 59:52Anthony Pompliano?

  When you meet somebody at a bar and they ask you what you do, what do you say?

• 59:56Speaker 02

  This is a funny, this is a funny question. I'll usually just be like, I'm in social media. I think especially because like, as the years have gone by, it's gotten more and more complicated, right? Like, am I the social media consultant guy? Do I make videos? Do I build brands for other people? And so like, if they, if they're really interested and they'll like, continue the conversation, I'll like, explain more. Uh, but it also depends on like, who it is, you know, like, is it, if it's like a random person, you know, like someone, like a family friend's friend or something who's like 60 years old and they're like, what do you do? I'll be like, I'm in marketing.

• 1:00:30Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:30Speaker 02

  Just leaving at that, you know? Like, just not even have to explain.

• 1:00:34Anthony Pompliano?

  Except for your grandma.

• 1:00:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:36Anthony Pompliano?

  She, she knows exactly what's going on.

• 1:00:38Speaker 02

  She knows, she knows. Yeah.

• 1:00:39Anthony Pompliano?

  Do you think that she tells her friends?

• 1:00:40Speaker 02

  Oh, she does.

• 1:00:41Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah?

• 1:00:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, a hundred percent. She loves it. No, I don't think they're jealous. Some have offered to like, feature in her videos, because she's got like, a whole squad of like, old Italian women.

• 1:00:49Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. Oh, and they want, oh, they want cameos.

• 1:00:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. And so they're just like, maybe one day I'll hop in your video, you know? So.

• 1:00:55Anthony Pompliano?

  And she hasn't taken them up on it yet?

• 1:00:57Speaker 02

  No, I think we're totally open to it. Like, we probably will. It would be a good idea.

• 1:01:01Anthony Pompliano?

  Her people are gonna talk to their people.

• 1:01:02Speaker 02

  Maybe I could start accounts for all of them and just build this like, army of, uh, of nonas.

• 1:01:08Anthony Pompliano?

  I'm imagining her there. My wife's grandmother, or I guess great grandmother, she was on the news in Bulgaria because my wife was interviewed in Bulgarian media and she mentioned her great grandmother, who of course, they pulled the photo. And so she's like, calling all of her friends and she's like, did you see the news? I was on the news. Like basically talking shit and being like, you've never been on the news.

• 1:01:40Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 1:01:41Anthony Pompliano?

  I was on the news. The news cares about me. They don't care about you, basically. And she's like, you know, 92, 93 years old. She thinks she's 100, but she's 92.

• 1:01:51Anthony Pompliano?

  And I remember just thinking like, man, that never leaves you.

• 1:01:54Speaker 02

  That is amazing. Yeah, I don't think, I don't think Nona's gotten to the point of confidence yet where she's like necessarily flexing about it. I think it's more so just like sharing things where she's like, I am shocked that this is happening. You know, like, so call her friends and be like, I was on a billboard in Times Square. Does that make any sense to you? You know, like, like, did you see the picture? And it's funny because like, she doesn't have a phone. She has no idea how to operate.

• 1:02:18Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, she didn't even have a phone?

• 1:02:18Speaker 02

  No, no, no. So like, everything basically is through me, right? Like, I'll like read her comments and whatever. And so it's funny because like, so like, she'll be like, can you print this picture of us so I can show my friends? And I'll be like, oh yeah, that's right. Like you can't text your friends the picture because none of you have phones, you know?

• 1:02:36Anthony Pompliano?

  So her friends don't have phones either. So they're like, they really are, you know, fax machine and printer.

• 1:02:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:02:43Anthony Pompliano?

  And then she like show up and be like, here's pictures of all the scenes of my TikTok that went viral.

• 1:02:49Speaker 02

  Imagine she's got like one of those like books that you flip.

• 1:02:52Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. And then she shows them like what the TikTok is?

• 1:02:55Speaker 02

  No, no, no, no, no. She'll just like, she'll ask me. It's mainly just for like big things like that, you know? I think really it was just the Times Square billboard, but now it's like an interesting story. So I tell it more dramatically.

• 1:03:06Speaker 02

  But yeah, yeah. So either she'll like ask me to show them in person or, you know, something like that. Or like one of their like grandkids will show them.

• 1:03:13Anthony Pompliano?

  Of course.

• 1:03:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:14Anthony Pompliano?

  That's, I think that's what grandkids are for. It's like, hey, look what's going on on this internet.

• 1:03:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:18Anthony Pompliano?

  And they're like, get off the internet. Don't put your credit card on there.

• 1:03:22Speaker 02

  Yeah. It's also weird because I think like, uh, some people, I, I think even like younger people, but you don't, the numbers behind a screen, it just seems like a game. But I think in person, as she started to get recognized more, she starts to understand the numbers more now, you know?

• 1:03:36Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. I think that's true for everyone though, right? Of just like, the numbers don't seem real. And at some point they do start to seem real, whether it's a conversion on something that you post or whatever. But like, there is this like, this is a game than like, oh, these are people that are watching. Which is kind of a weird thing when it happens.

• 1:03:53Speaker 02

  Definitely.

• 1:03:55Anthony Pompliano?

  Where can we send people to follow you on the internet?

• 1:03:58Speaker 02

  Macrisia.

• 1:04:00Anthony Pompliano?

  Across everything?

• 1:04:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. Uh, well, on Instagram, it's like real Macrisia, but I'm sure if you just put Macrisia, it'll come up.

• 1:04:06Anthony Pompliano?

  Are you big on Twitter?

• 1:04:08Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:04:09Anthony Pompliano?

  No?

• 1:04:09Speaker 02

  Unfortunately.

• 1:04:10Anthony Pompliano?

  Do you have a Twitter account?

• 1:04:10Speaker 02

  I should be big on Twitter. Yeah.

• 1:04:12Anthony Pompliano?

  Do you have a Twitter account?

• 1:04:13Speaker 02

  I do have a Twitter. I just don't really use it.

• 1:04:15Anthony Pompliano?

  Why don't you just put the videos from TikTok on Twitter?

• 1:04:18Speaker 02

  Does that get engagement?

• 1:04:20Anthony Pompliano?

  Little alpha for you, because I use Twitter more than everything else.

• 1:04:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:26Anthony Pompliano?

  They are now testing like a carousel in the middle of the feed. So you start scrolling and all of a sudden it's like trending videos. I'm like,

• 1:04:34Speaker 02

  So everyone's just becoming TikTok now?

• 1:04:36Anthony Pompliano?

  Where did this come from? Like, I, uh, I'm confused. So like, they're doing something with video. I don't know if I'm in like some sort of like test cohort. I don't know if they've actually rolled this out to everyone or whatever. But I see the carousel there and it's already, I'm like, should I be putting more video on Twitter? Like, are they about to go full, you know, TikTok and like, just like, boost all the videos? I don't know. We'll see.

• 1:04:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think, um, I definitely need to start focusing on Twitter more now. I think Twitter is like a, a space where like, a lot of like, I guess like industry people connect, right?

• 1:05:05Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, it's what LinkedIn should have been.

• 1:05:07Speaker 02

  Right, exactly. And so I think especially now with like Fuz and stuff.

• 1:05:12Speaker 02

  I'm definitely trying to connect with more people like that, so.

• 1:05:14Anthony Pompliano?

  There's nothing more powerful than a Twitter DM to somebody who's been following you for years.

• 1:05:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, definitely.

• 1:05:22Anthony Pompliano?

  I think, right, like email likely going to be missed, ignored, you know, whatever. It's hard to like, remember who's who, whatever. If you get a ton of emails, Instagram and TikTok are still like, okay, maybe, but like, that's like, for most people, it's like personal stuff. They're not doing a lot of work stuff there. Their accounts are locked on Instagram or whatever. But Twitter is like this weird thing where it's like personal and professional.

• 1:05:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:05:48Anthony Pompliano?

  And if you follow people, consume lots of their content, then they DM you, you respond.

• 1:05:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I think, um, and also Twitter is interesting because I didn't know this, but my buddy Nate mentioned to me that like Twitter has like insane organic reach.

• 1:06:03Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:03Speaker 02

  And I never knew that. Like, I guess, he was saying it's basically like TikTok with words.

• 1:06:09Anthony Pompliano?

  To a degree, yeah. I mean, there's, there's months, in a single month.

• 1:06:15Anthony Pompliano?

  I'm trying to think, probably the biggest month ever. I'm nervous this publicly, so people are gonna freak out.

• 1:06:21Speaker 02

  Exclusive.

• 1:06:22Anthony Pompliano?

  I think we did like 300 or 350 million impressions.

• 1:06:26Speaker 02

  Oh, my goodness.

• 1:06:28Anthony Pompliano?

  In a single month.

• 1:06:28Speaker 02

  Those are TikTok numbers.

• 1:06:30Anthony Pompliano?

  Maybe like 180,000 followers, like net new followers.

• 1:06:35Speaker 02

  Whoa.

• 1:06:36Anthony Pompliano?

  Like, it's.

• 1:06:36Speaker 02

  That's crazy.

• 1:06:37Anthony Pompliano?

  Now, that's like, the absolute craziest it's ever gotten. And like, I was tweeting a lot, like, you know, all these things that were like, kind of tailwinds for it. But yeah, I mean, it's like, pretty big. If you're like, if you're playing your A game in an industry that's hot, and Twitter's like, not screwing around with a bunch of bots and stuff, which they are right now.

• 1:06:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:00Anthony Pompliano?

  Like, yeah, I mean, it's a platform that can go.

• 1:07:02Speaker 02

  Is the deal with Elon gonna go through?

• 1:07:07Anthony Pompliano?

  I'm 50/50 and the 50% uh yes is like he wants to do it now. Well, maybe he doesn't want to do it. He's going to do it now. Uh, the 50% no is uh, I think there's like a little bit of an outlier chance that like the government blocks it.

• 1:07:25Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 1:07:26Anthony Pompliano?

  Like they're, they claim that they're gonna review it or there's like rumors that they're gonna do a national security review.

• 1:07:31Speaker 02

  For what? I guess what's their fear?

• 1:07:33Anthony Pompliano?

  Well, if you're Elon Musk and you have SpaceX and Tesla, you're heavily dependent on government contracts and also like go to the extreme. Uh, Tesla is now producing cars in China. He's very dependent on selling cars in China. If China shows up and is like, hey, by the way, if you want to continue to produce your cars here, like this Twitter thing, let me, let's have a conversation about what we're gonna do there.

• 1:07:55Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 1:07:56Anthony Pompliano?

  Like, again, it's a stretch, but it's not a stretch, right? Like you can sort of understand both sides of it. Uh, and so like, man, what if the story was like all the nonsense, all the debate, all the stuff, whatever. And then like the government blocks it and he doesn't end up having to spend $44 billion for a company that's not worth $44 billion because the government blocked it?

• 1:08:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, that would be pretty nuts.

• 1:08:16Anthony Pompliano?

  The most, as he says all the time, like the most entertaining outcome is the most likely.

• 1:08:21Anthony Pompliano?

  Like Joe Biden saved Elon Musk 44 billion is not the headline that anyone is expecting. But like, I don't know, there's a 50/50 shot of that happening.

• 1:08:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. That's crazy. Huh.

• 1:08:35Anthony Pompliano?

  Like, all right, we'll end there. I appreciate you coming on. Uh, thanks so much. And uh, we'll continue to do this and definitely have to do it again in the future as grandma gets more famous.

• 1:08:45Speaker 02

  I appreciate it. Yeah, we'll get around here one day.

• 1:08:49Anthony Pompliano?

  Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. I really hope you enjoyed this one. Make sure you're subscribed on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player. And if you're looking to transition into a brand new job in the Bitcoin or crypto industry, we've got you covered. Head over to thecryptoacademy.io. My team and I have been working with the top HR teams in the industry to develop an intensive three-week training program with over 50 live events. We teach you exactly what you need to know to break into the industry, including live interview. Prep and resume review. Our students have been hired at over 75 of the world's best Bitcoin and crypto companies. Go to the cryptoacademy.io to learn more. Again, that's thecryptoacademy.io. If you enjoyed today's episode, make sure you share it with your friends and I'll see you all for the next episode.