#1040 Tory Reiss On Providing Everyone Access To Alternative Investments

Tory Reiss is the Co-Founder of Equi. In this conversation, we talk about public and private markets, out-performing the markets, how family offices find unique investment opportunities, and how Tory and his team are offering their clients access to these investments that were previously hard to obtain. ======================= FTX. US is the safe, regulated way to buy and sell Bitcoin and other digital assets. Trade crypto with up to 85% lower fees than top competitors. There are no fixed minimum fees, no ACH transaction fees, and no withdrawal fees. FTX. US is also the only leading exchange that supports both Ethereum and Solana NFTs. Download the FTX App today and use referral code “Pomp” to earn free crypto on every trade over $10. The more you trade, the more you earn. ======================== Valour (formerly DeFi Technologies) represents what’s next in the digital economy -- providing simplified, trusted access to crypto, decentralized finance and Web 3.0 investment opportunities. Institutions and investors can gain diversified, secure, compliant, and easily tradable access to a diversified set of industry-leading equity products and protocols, through a single stock purchase on a regulated exchange. Currently listed on U. S. (OTC: DEFTF) and Canadian (NEO:DEFI) exchanges. For more information or to subscribe to receive company updates and financial information, visit our website at valour.com ======================= The number one name in NFT domains and the world’s most powerful wallet are teaming up to bring something new to the crypto and Web3 world: That’s right, Unstoppable Domains and Blockchain.com partnered to create NFT domain names ending in . Blockchain. It’s the perfect ending to show that you’re a believer in a decentralized future. The Blockchain.com community can get one, for free by signing up for the waitlist here. Free NFT domains provide all the benefits of premium Unstoppable Domains, including fee-free, lifelong ownership. Don’t have a Blockchain.com wallet? No worries, these new domains are available to everyone for as low as $5. Either sign up for a free blockchain.wallet or visit Unstoppabledomains.com to buy your domain today. =======================

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Anthony Pompliano?

  What's up everyone, this is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, simply the best podcast out there. Now let's kick this thing off. Tori Reese is the co-founder of Equi. In this conversation, we talk about public and private markets, we talk about outperformance, and we talk about how many billionaires and family offices go about their day-to-day investing activities and where they are finding unique investment strategies. I really enjoyed this conversation with Tori, and I hope that you enjoy it as well. Before we get into this episode, though, I first want to talk about our sponsors. This episode is brought to you by FTX US. FTX.us is the safe, regulated way to buy and sell Bitcoin and other digital assets. You can trade crypto with up to 85% lower

• 0:47Anthony Pompliano?

  fees than top competitors. There are no fixed minimum fees, no ACH transaction fees, and no withdrawal fees either. FTX.us is also the only leading exchange that supports both Ethereum and Solana NFTs. Download the FTX app today and use referral code Pomp to earn these free crypto on every trade over $10. The more you trade, the more you earn. Go download the FTX app today and use referral code Pomp. This episode is brought to you by Valor. Valor represents what's next in the digital economy. They provide simplified trusted access to crypto, decentralized finance, and Web3 investment opportunities. Institutions and investors can gain diversified, secure, compliant, and easily tradable access to a diversified set of industry-leading equity

• 1:32Anthony Pompliano?

  products and protocols through a single stock purchase on a regulated exchange. They're currently listed on the OTC at DEFTF and on the Canadian NEO exchange at DEFI. For more information or to subscribe to receive company updates and financial information, you can visit their website at valour.com. That's V-A-L-O-U-R dot com. valour.com. Go check them out today. This episode is brought to you by Unstoppable Domains. They recently launched an awesome feature to level up your unstoppable domain's profile. It's called badges. They translate wallet activity into achievements, so celebrating, reliving, and sharing your crypto story has Been easier. Before, these stories were buried in transaction logs that were hard to read,

• 2:14Anthony Pompliano?

  making them difficult to find and understand as well. But since unstoppable domain badges are awarded based on your wallet activity, they're a super fun, easy way to build on-chain reputation just by doing what you do, like supporting NFT projects, collecting domains, or holding crypto. Unstoppable domain owners can activate badges from their account profile page right now. If you haven't minted an NFT domain yet, go to unstoppabledomains.com right now to own your name, starting as low as $5. Again, head over to unstoppabledomains.com right now to get started.

• 2:45Speaker 01

  Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

• 3:08Anthony Pompliano?

  Tori Reese from Equities here. Tori, how are you?

• 3:11Speaker 02

  I'm great. How are you doing, Pom?

• 3:13Anthony Pompliano?

  I'm doing fantastic. I'm very excited to talk to you. For those that don't have context on kind of what you guys are building, maybe let's start there. Just quickly give us an overview because I think it'll be important as we kind of talk through the market. You guys sit in a very unique seat. Your customers are very kind of different than I think most most technology entrepreneurs who come on to on this show. But like, explain kind of what you guys are building here.

• 3:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, it is a bit on the complex side. We're building the equivalent of, you know, I would say the data and technology you would expect in a place like Jane Street or 2 Sigma, which these are like very elite multi-strategy hedge funds. But instead, we're building it in the context of a consumer fintech experience. So we're kind of bringing a lot of these very advanced alternative investment strategies down market to folks. I mean, down is a relative term. We're taking it from where you might need a few hundred million to implement these types of strategies and add them to your portfolio and making it accessible in the beginning to people that are more in like that five to 20 million net worth.

• 4:20Speaker 02

  And we'll be able to move it down more over time like this concept of being the digital family office. That's really what we're what we're gunning towards.

• 4:27Anthony Pompliano?

  So obviously, most family offices, they are investing both in public and private markets. What do you all see as maybe like the the approach to public markets versus the approach to private markets? Any trends that you see there with the various family offices or larger investors that you deal with?

• 4:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, on the highest level, it's the reason it's so different is that in public markets, pretty much everyone's come to realize that indexing is better than active investing, because the markets are largely, they're very efficient, they're very competitive. Whereas in the private markets, they're much larger in the sense that there's, you know, 30,000 plus privately registered funds in the United States. But the way that you outperform in the private markets isn't through buying the market, it's actually through, you know, superior manager and security selection. And so that's actually how you outperform. If you're genuinely picking, you know, from the top, let's say, 5% of managers and understand

• 5:27Speaker 02

  how to both find them, get access, and then, you know, build portfolios, that's how the best, you know, endowments and family offices outperform everybody else. So it's a very different strategy in how you outperform in each market.

• 5:40Anthony Pompliano?

  And what have you all seen over the last, you know, six to eight months as kind of asset prices have fallen across markets? What are you seeing either investors do differently? Or what are you seeing as opportunities that now are becoming more obvious than maybe they were when prices were much higher?

• 5:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, it's a great question, because I think what people don't realize is the reason why these large institutions and why the quote unquote, you know, billionaire portfolios outperform, it's not because they're making, you know, better absolute returns in years like the past, you know, decade when the S and P is crushing and averaging, you know, enormous returns. It's because they just don't lose money. When everyone else is losing money, you know, they're much better diversified. And so what I what you're actually observing is that For the large institutions, they are very well diversified into hedge fund strategies, private equity, private credit, et cetera. And so they're not taking the same hit to

• 6:38Speaker 02

  their portfolio as most individuals who are all in on crypto or all in on on public equities. And so it's actually, it's interesting to see it all play out because this has been a 30 year trend where the smart money has been moving towards a portfolio that's more predominantly in alternatives. And so the market dynamics are such that it's favoring people who have a more diversified strategy versus those who are more concentrated, if that makes sense.

• 7:05Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. And when you start to look in the public markets, obviously, anyone can go buy a stock ticker via various, you know, kind of platforms, but the private market seems to be much more cut off. How do you all think about either giving access or kind of helping people filter through it? And I always joke, you know, if you're sitting in kind of any town USA and you're investing in local entrepreneurs, like your track record is probably not going to be too hot. There are definitely, you know, San Francisco, New York, Miami, maybe in LA or in Austin, but like outside of five or six cities, the density is just, you know, few and far between. So how do you guys think about that?

• 7:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. I mean, I think one of the reasons why you can outperform in private markets in a way that you you can't in public is the data is just so much more disparate. It's spread out. It's imperfect. It's very hard to get. You know, we've had to invest enormous resources to accumulate the right data sets to actually identify these types of managers and then source them and then diligence them. And so what what I've observed is one of the bigger trends is it is a war for more and better data. Performance in the in the private markets comes from being very smart with how you think about sourcing. I think the industry traditionally, to your point, it's

• 8:33Speaker 02

  actually been entirely dependent on relationships. Who do you know? How big is your Rolodex? But that actually, that is turning because it's becoming a much more global marketplace like there's a lot more competition as more money has flown into it the incentives have changed and so as that's evolved that's why we think it's actually favoring investors that take a more data and quantitative approach as opposed to those that just go to the most you know dinners and and conferences if that makes sense.

• 9:01Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, and so when you start to think about that outperformance like how much of it is just hey don't go invest in what majority of other people are investing in go to the private markets versus there's actual strategies or kind of things that can be learned by various investors whether they're family offices or just investors with larger pools of capital that can drive that outperformance.

• 9:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I think it's funny like there's this myth and there's all these bad associations with hedge funds that like oh you can't beat the market the market's always going to win I am going to tell you definitively I have met with and interacted with managers and funds that drastically outperformed the market and do it for decades and the reality is that while those strategies exist you know most of them they might have a single investor you know like one of the best funds that I know of in the world is this very secretive multi-billion dollar quantitative hedge fund based in New York and you know the COO of

• 10:05Speaker 02

  this fund happens to be a customer advisor to Equi and you know they their returns are incredibly consistent have very low risk have overperformed for a very long time but they're exactly like what I'm describing you know they have one billionaire that their entire operation you know thirty forty people is serving a single customer and so you know when we think about this is like that is not how it always is there are lots of managers around the world who have fantastic strategies and for whatever reason haven't been identified by like large buyers and so it's really about how do you find those hidden gems can you get the data can you source and find these individuals whether they're in Austria or in London or New York or Cleveland Ohio.

• 10:49Speaker 02

  You know everywhere you'd be surprised like these type of people do exist and there's a lot more inefficiency in the private markets because of how bad the data is. So I think it is more possible than people realize it's just not possible for the majority of people. That's that's what's so hard. And so that's that's kind of what we want to change, but that's just the reality. The market is inefficient.

• 11:12Anthony Pompliano?

  So we're talking about private markets and one of the ethos in the Bitcoin crypto world is this idea of self sovereignty. We do a lot of work with Ledger, which has all sorts of self sovereignty hardware, which allows you to hold your private keys. And you know, not your keys, not your coin. And it's literally all about keep your stuff off the banks, keep your stuff off of these trading platforms, etc. When you begin to think in the legacy financial world, how many of these people are investing? Self sovereignty, I think, is less about like, you're not taking the stock certificates and putting it in, you know, your safe anymore, right? You're not taking the bonds or you're not taking kind of possession, the physical possession of this.

• 11:53Anthony Pompliano?

  But there is this like sovereignty element around doing the research. So the kind of secretive organization you're talking about, there's 30, 40 people, they're not outsourcing. They're not just turning around and giving their money to JP Morgan or Goldman Sachs, no offense to those folks. But like, they're saying, no, we can do it better ourselves. And so like, is it true that all of these large investors want to outperform? And then the only way that they think they can do it is by building out their own teams? Or do you see people just say like, hey, just give me what the market gives me. I'm so rich already that like, that's good enough. And let me go live my life. Like, what do you see there?

• 12:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, that's actually the interesting thing about money. I mean, I'm telling you, I, you know, I've been teaching financial literacy classes for nine going on 10 years. And I can tell you, it's a, it's a complete game of subjectivity, you know? Like I have close friends, and by the way, this includes you, right? Where I look at certain people where it's like, you know, if they want to have, if they're like crypto is the future, I believe in it. And I believe that, you know, I want all my money in crypto and I'm going to just find the absolute best, you know, strategies and funds and, you know, coins to include in my portfolio. And that's it. That's what I'm choosing. That's not right or wrong. Because for that person, it's right. And so I, I think like, these are very subjective things.

• 13:11Speaker 02

  And for a lot of people, they'll say, hey, I know my financial advisor doesn't actually know how to invest. I don't pay them to beat the market. I pay them just so that I don't have to think about it. And that describes a lot of people. And I can tell you though, there are a class of people and they're the people that tend to find us. And I fall into this bucket where I'm just this crazy skeptic. I'm trying to optimize everything. I know that I can't trust the traditional financial services industry. I totally agree with your ethos of like self sovereignty. Make your own decisions, do your own research. And for those people who are like, I want the best in the world and I want to actually like, you know, have the best performance like, and, and, and be able to measure it and feel like I know I can weather any disaster, any storm. Like those are the, the, like, that's also a class of individual.

• 13:55Speaker 02

  And, and, but there isn't a right or a wrong. It's knowing like what is true for you and what are you trying to accomplish? Money is just a tool to help you kind of accomplish your goals in life. And there's no right or wrong answer to what is your goal? What do you want to accomplish? Right?

• 14:10Anthony Pompliano?

  When you start to think through this, what do you think is driving these individuals? Like, wh- wh- why, why do they want to continue to do this, right? You, you all have the technology, uh, kind of all of the products that can help them accomplish their goals. But like, what's driving them, uh, to actually have those goals?

• 14:29Speaker 02

  I, I, that's an amazing question. You know, I've spoken at this point with hundreds of customers that, uh, you know, many of which we've on boarded, uh, either, uh, now, or they continue to be on our waitlist. And what I can tell you is that the answers are really all across the board. I, I, I found it so fascinating. I mean, for some people, they're in it and they're, they're unabashed and there's no problem with this. They're like, I want to be ridiculously wealthy and that's just, that's just it. I want to be F you rich where I can just do anything that I want and I'm totally free. And it's like, great, good for you. I, there's also other people where it's like, they come in and they're like, hey, I want to make sure that it's not just me, but my, the generation that comes after me and the generation after that.

• 15:11Speaker 02

  Like, I want to ensure like the financial security and success of like, Ten generations of my family and like that's what's driving them. Then there's other people that are like, hey, I want to make the world a better place. I'm driven by like, I want security for my family, but I feel like I've already earned that. So at this point, I want to maximize what I can accomplish in my lifetime and the, and the number of people I can help. Uh, and, and you know, it's fascinating because what I can tell you is universally, the people that kind of make it to our doors, the ones that I've talked to, whatever their reason is, they are unbelievably driven. I think they are, you know, multiple standard deviations away from your average person with the, whatever their reason is, like whatever's fueling them. And you just have to be careful though. Is that fuel burning you up and making, you know, leading you to be miserable and have a terrible life?

• 15:56Speaker 02

  Or is that fuel driving you where you light up and you can't wait to go do whatever it is you do every single day? And I can tell you like, that is one of the bigger divides. There's plenty of different reasons, but it's like, what's the impact on the individual and the people around them? Like, that's something you can actually see pretty clearly.

• 16:12Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. When you guys think of outperformance, is there a way to like measure it? Like, do you say like, hey, if, if the market gives us 11%, we are targeting 15%? Or, or is there like some kind of quantitative component to this? Or is it just, no, we want to use the products to help people deliver, uh, the best returns possible? And, uh, we'll let the market and, and kind of their actions dictate what happens?

• 16:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, there, there is a way to measure outperformance. I mean, we think one of the best ways to measure it is how much return are you getting per unit of risk that someone takes? You can measure it using, you know, Sharpe ratio or Sortino. But what we see, what we believe are the best investors of the, in the world, and the ones that we seek to, you know, work with are, we want to work with people who, they can earn an incredible return while taking very little risk. Like, we want the value at risk at any given time to be as low as humanly possible. So that, that's a concept that, that I think is very measurable, this concept of bar or value at risk. So if you can earn returns that are equal to or better than, let's say, the S and P 500,

• 17:17Speaker 02

  but at any given time, you're only putting 5% of the portfolio at risk. Like you're, there's no risk of losing half your money. That to me is a measure of outperformance.

• 17:26Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. When you kind of start to think about like, I call it billionaire alpha, just people who got money, who have been able to build it, what are some things that stick out to you that are either lessons learned or things that they do that you're like, it'd be so simple if other people just knew the rules of this game, they'd be able to generate, whether it's outperformance, save from a tax standpoint, or get some other advantage in the market.

• 17:53Speaker 02

  Yeah. I'd say the two tips I would give anyone who's thinking about these types of things are, there's enormous alpha in tax, being smart about how your assets are treated, how you take a long-term approach and think about structuring your estate over the long, like, long arc of history and of your lifetime. That's huge alpha. The second would be diversification. Not all diversification is created equal. Like, people think when they buy the index, they're diversified. That's not how the wealthiest or the billionaire mindset works. The billionaire mindset is being diversified in terms of the number of return drivers in your portfolio.

• 18:37Speaker 02

  Like, what are the things that ultimately drive the performance of your portfolio? And how do you have as diverse a set of return drivers in your portfolio as possible? And those are the ones that consistently will just outperform, take less drawdowns, and over the long term, just consistently compound your capital at an incredible rate. And so those are the two things that I would tell people, like, would be very thoughtful about is like, how do you introduce more return drivers and how do you do it efficiently?

• 19:03Anthony Pompliano?

  And so when you then start to think about some of the more unique investment strategies, I know there's a whole kinds of things that you all have been able to identify and work with clients on. What are some like the most unique or off-the-wall ones that people wouldn't know about?

• 19:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's also an awesome question because I'm constantly blown away at the ways that there's so many ways to make money in this world. It's mind boggling. I can tell you two of the more interesting ones, just very briefly, because the rabbit hole goes very deep. We have one manager where there are certain types of hedge funds. They're called biatical settlement funds and they actually arbitrage life insurance policies. So they find inefficiencies in the underwriting structure of like large insurance providers. And then they effectively take advantage of that inefficiency to produce a very consistent, non-correlated return.

• 20:00Speaker 02

  And you know, that's a market where it doesn't matter if this stock market's going up or down. It's like their ability to perform better underwriting on very specific diseases and then offer like a valuable service to those people with those policies and give them like better buyouts, but ultimately produce a return for the LPs in the fund. I mean, these are folks that can have a 20-year track record performing in the mid-teens with very little variance and very like taking on very, a lot less risk than you would, let's say, in the public markets. There's another example. We have a manager that has a very fascinating strategy where he's literally built a better version of the VIX.

• 20:43Speaker 02

  The VIX is like a measure of volatility in public markets. Brilliant guy, like, you know, PhD in his teens, like incredible. When you look at what he does, he effectively arbitrages his version of the volatility mathematical models against what's happening in the public markets. And since his is better, he can basically arbitrage the difference between his model and the public market model and just produce an incredible, non-correlated, consistent return. And again, this is like very complex stuff. Like I would not make this investment myself because I didn't understand it. But fortunately, I, you know, I have a co-founder who is himself a former volatility hedge fund manager and could act and actually speaks, you know, the language of all these different managers.

• 21:28Speaker 02

  But the more I learn about all of these, there's, there's, there's money everywhere. It's, it's like the, it's like the saying that if anyone watched Arrested Development, it's like there's always money in the banana stand. In this case, it's like there's money in every market, every niche market around the world, there's crazy ways to make money. I mean, you and I know that.

• 21:48Anthony Pompliano?

  When you start to look at many of the products and services that you all have built, what do you find people who first start down this path of kind of building a family office, managing their own capital, what are the things that kind of get them up to speed the quickest or are like the most impactful for them to do first?

• 22:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know, I think educating yourself, understanding that most people out there are going to be trying to sell you hot air. I think that was the hardest thing for me was realizing getting certified to become a financial advisor is fairly easy. So they're not all created equal. I think there are some incredible financial advisors out there and it's really like their craft and they take it very seriously and they're constantly looking for ways to learn and improve. And then there are folks out there where that's really not their consideration. I think the best advisors should act as partners, right? Like meaning you should educate yourself and you

• 22:51Speaker 02

  should partner with whoever it is. And then it's like together you're making the best decisions. And so when I think about when you're getting started on this journey, it's never been easier to educate yourself in whatever realm you're hoping to invest in. And so if this is something you want to spend time on, invest the time, you know, maybe take a year of your life and you know, you can create a very easy curriculum, learning about the different asset classes. But if you're the type of person, you're like, I know I'm not going to do that type, I'm not going to do that work, then the best thing you can do is at least know enough to evaluate the person that you're going to trust, right? Because that, I know this, it all comes back to trust and to having an ability to discern between someone that's sort of like,

• 23:36Speaker 02

  what is the value they're actually going to create? If they're honest about it and if they're like, hey, look, I'm here, I'm going to try and keep you in line with the market and make sure that you're budgeting properly and keep you on track, great, they're being on. Honestly, I think that's a healthy relationship. But if you want to find someone, you're like, hey, I see your job as like helping get me into the best, you know, non-correlated investments in the world, then you you kind of have to know that you do your homework, know act as that person's partner. And I from what I've seen, those are the best partnerships is where both people bring something to the table and they're an extension, you know, they're a team as opposed to, um, you know, keeping your head in the sand. So that's my advice is like, uh, educate, make intelligent decisions, find the right partner.

• 24:20Anthony Pompliano?

  The, uh, the last question I have for you is, um, as you continue to build this, you speak with wealthy people all over the world and that just happens to be a, a proxy of, um, you know, that's who has the money. Uh, what, what are their daily routines? What are their non like investing, uh, behaviors? And, um, you know, we, um, uh, we spend a lot of time with, uh, with eight sleep and I, um, constantly talking on this show about eight sleep and how I sleep on every night and I get eight hours of sleep, all this stuff. What are these other folks doing? Like if, if somebody's like, hey, I want to be that person, right? What are some of the things that you've picked up on as you spent more and more time with them that you think, uh, can be replicated by others?

• 25:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. You know, it's something that I've observed and this is a blessing and a curse is, um, I see this in, I'll say the majority of the folks that we work with, right? There's this level of discontent. Now, what I mean by discontent is, you know, this feeling of like, I can always do better. I can always improve. How can I find that like that edge? Like where is that edge and how can I push it in whatever realm, whatever they choose? They might choose, hey, at this point in my life, um, it's going to be fitness. And so then they're, you know, they're pushing the edge on what's possible there. Finding the experts, doing the research, improving and working themselves.

• 25:46Speaker 02

  Or it's maybe it's in business. How do I find the best mentor? How do I like level myself up in this very specific area? Now, I think the fine line is how can you keep that discontent, so to speak, but be at peace with yourself? Cause there's a lot of people where it's like that discontent is what's driving them, but it also makes them miserable. And so I would say the, the, the most, most, the people who I consider most successful, they maintain that, but they do it from a place of like, hey, this is just a giant game that we're all playing.

• 26:18Speaker 02

  This is like, how lucky are we to be playing this game? And yes, I'm going to drive myself, I'm going to push to be the best I can be in whatever it is I'm doing. You know, I want to compete in this grand game, but they see it for what it is, right? They're not actually making themselves miserable. And that's a really difficult line to walk. So that's what I would say is like, I definitely noticed that in a pronounced fashion. They're not willing to accept the status quo. Because that's the distinguishing factor that I see most common.

• 26:46Anthony Pompliano?

  Where can we send people to find you on the internet or learn more about Equi?

• 26:50Speaker 02

  You can, I'm trying to be more active on Twitter. I don't do a good job because I'm working way, way, way too much. But I'm at Y Tori on Twitter. You know, for our main website, you can go to equi.com and you can apply to learn more. You know, we apologize, our waitlist is a few thousand people long at this point. And so we, you know, it takes time to, to talk to everyone on the waitlist. We're doing our best to expand access to the platform. We will get there with time. Yeah, those are the two best places I think you can learn more about us.

• 27:23Anthony Pompliano?

  When, when you first told me about this, I remember saying to myself like, man, this is where the world is going. So much so that obviously I invested in the business, but it feels like

• 27:35Anthony Pompliano?

  technology really is eating the world, right? Software eating the world. And so going and eating some of the more bureaucratic kind of white collar type roles is, it's already started. And this is just another example of kind of how it's accelerating. So it's pretty cool to, to see this.

• 27:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's amazing. I've appreciated your support since day one. It's wild to think when you invested, you know, we were three people working in a distributed fashion during a pandemic. And now we're 25 people, you know, spread around the country. And, and we've got a real, you know, massive platform, a bunch of customers. And it wouldn't be possible without your support. So thank you for making that happen.

• 28:17Anthony Pompliano?

  It's real.

• 28:18Speaker 02

  It's real. It's a thing.

• 28:20Anthony Pompliano?

  That's how it works, my friend. All right. Well, thank you so much for coming on and we'll definitely have to do this again in the future. I think that people just enjoy, you know, learning, hey, folks who are kind of ahead of me in the evolution of a lot of this. How do they think? What do they use? Where are they spending their time, energy and kind of, and mind shares? So this is the super fun. I learned something and I hope everyone else did as well.

• 28:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, appreciate it.

• 28:43Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. See you later, buddy. Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. I really hope you guys enjoyed this one. Make sure you subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player. And if you're looking to try to transition to get a new job in the Bitcoin or crypto industry, we've got you covered. Head over to pompscryptocourse.com. We've developed a curriculum with the top teams across the industry. It's a three-week intensive training program with over 50 events packed into that three-week time period. Go to pompscryptocourse.com to learn more, and I'll meet you guys for the next episode.