#1038 Will Clemente On Navigating The Worst Bitcoin Market Sentiment In Years

Will Clemente is the Lead Insights Analyst at Blockware. He has quickly become one of my favorite writers on all things bitcoin, including deep dives on various onchain analytics. In this conversation, we discuss the bitcoin fundamentals, on-chain metrics, what happened in the past week, and what the on-chain data is telling us to be prepared for moving forward. WIll joins us regularly on "The Best Business Show." To see the video with the corresponding charts that Will references throughout the interview, go to the Anthony Pompliano YouTube Channel. ======================= The number one name in NFT domains and the world’s most powerful wallet are teaming up to bring something new to the crypto and Web3 world: That’s right, Unstoppable Domains and Blockchain.com partnered to create NFT domain names ending in . Blockchain. It’s the perfect ending to show that you’re a believer in a decentralized future. The Blockchain.com community can get one, for free by signing up for the waitlist here. Free NFT domains provide all the benefits of premium Unstoppable Domains, including fee-free, lifelong ownership. Don’t have a Blockchain.com wallet? No worries, these new domains are available to everyone for as low as $5. Either sign up for a free blockchain.wallet or visit Unstoppabledomains.com to buy your domain today. ======================= LMAX Digital - the market-leading solution for institutional crypto trading & custodial services - offers clients a regulated, transparent and secure trading environment, together with the deepest pool of crypto liquidity. LMAX Digital is also a primary price discovery venue, streaming real-time market data to the industry’s leading analytics platforms. LMAX Digital - secure, liquid, trusted. Learn more at LMAXdigital.com/pomp =======================

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Anthony Pompliano?

  What's up everyone, this is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, simply the best podcast out there. Now let's kick this thing off. Will Clemente is the Lead Insights Analyst at Blockware. In this conversation, we talk about Bitcoin, the market structure, on-chain analytics, and where we go from here. I really enjoyed this weekly conversation with Will, as always, and I hope you do as well. Before we get into this episode, I want to quickly talk about our sponsors. This episode is brought to you by FTX US. FTX.us is the safe, regulated way to buy and sell Bitcoin and other digital assets. You can trade crypto with up to 85% lower fees than top competitors. There are no fixed minimum fees, no ACH transaction fees,

• 0:47Anthony Pompliano?

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• 1:30Anthony Pompliano?

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• 2:13Anthony Pompliano?

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• 2:45Speaker 01

  Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

• 3:08Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, we got Will Clemente from Blockware. Will, what's up, buddy?

• 3:12Speaker 02

  Yo, yo. How's it going, Jess?

• 3:14Anthony Pompliano?

  The, the young wizard. What's up, dude? We're super excited. We got a whole bunch of stuff to talk to. Before we jump into charts, what is, uh, what's your general read right now on kind of market sentiment? It feels like people were real scared. Two weeks ago or so, when all the contagion was kind of taking its toll. Now it feels like people got a little bit more relief and might not be as scared. Is that your general sense?

• 3:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I would say that, you know, perhaps rightfully so. Some of the fear that we've seen over the last few weeks has been the most extreme that I've ever personally experienced, maybe rivaled by like the COVID crash. And I remember during the COVID crash, people were wondering if like, you know, the fundamental Bitcoin protocol had like broken or something. Cause I mean, we just had gone down like 50% in a day. But I mean, it has been pretty wild. I mean, every single entity that appears to have been kind of the adult in the room turned out to just be degenerates like the rest of us. So, um, yeah, I mean, I think some of the, some of the fear has been, you know, rightfully warranted, but that doesn't mean, you know, I think a lot of the, a lot of the flushing out of malinvestment and leverage that we've

• 4:23Speaker 02

  seen over the last month or two will be very healthy for the space long-term. And, you know, I think a lot of people have been saying. Oh, well, you know, this this hurts the credibility of the asset class. People aren't going to want to touch this thing with a 10 foot pole because, you know, we've got all these Ponzi-nomics in the space and all that kind of stuff. Um, I mean, I think, you know, when I've at least spoken to some of these, you know, traditional finance entities that, you know, I don't have a very large circle of, but I would say, you know, a handful of these individual individuals that I've spoken to, they seem to, you know, be more excited about this than anything because they've seen this, you know, happen many times in the traditional landscape.

• 5:05Speaker 02

  I mean, for example, like, you know, what happened with 3AC? You know, you've seen that take place in traditional markets. I mean, that's not anything that's unique to crypto. So I think some of these guys are kind of starting to get excited about basically buying distressed assets in a marketplace that's experienced tremendous amount of for selling and is in a state of, you know, tremendous amount of fear. You've got a lot of, you know, crypto native people that are now questioning even the viability of the space, perhaps, you know, not on the magnitude of what took place in 2018, but certainly are starting to see some of that.

• 5:42Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, it um, it's a, it's pretty interesting when you start thinking through how a lot of this balances out and your references back to 2020, 2018, you know, and bear markets before, I think a lot about, there's just more eyeballs. Like I was trying the other day to to figure out a good way to analyze it. 50% of all Bitcoin and crypto investors weren't here for March of 2020. Like that was my general guess, right? Maybe I'm off plus or minus, you know, 10, 15% in either direction. But like a very large percentage of people who right now, this second, hold a crypto asset were not around in March of 2020.

• 6:27Anthony Pompliano?

  An even bigger percentage of them weren't around in 2018, right? And you just kind of go all the way back. And so it's like, I don't know, take the like, Second bear market, it was 2013 or whatever it was, right? 3%, 1% of all people in the market today were around for that. So it's just like, so many people are new, they don't have the context of 2020 or 2018. And so of course, the market cycles to some degree will repeat. Cause those people have to kind of be indoctrinated into what happens as well, right?

• 6:58Speaker 02

  Sure, yeah, I mean, I think part of why Bitcoin cyclicality is so reflexive is because it's such a new asset class. So every cycle, you know, when we run up in price, it's basically like a massive marketing campaign for BTC in the broader crypto market as well. You get a tremendous amount of new users because Bitcoin just hasn't reached saturation. I mean, we did our user adoption, came on here and talked through that report. You know, it's a very, very small portion of the world actually, you know, has, has any ownership of Bitcoin or any other crypto asset. So, you know, every single cycle, you get a new amount of, you know, new magnitude of new market participants.

• 7:40Speaker 02

  And on the move down, you know, some of those people get flushed out and capitulate as, you know, they come to the realization that they really have no fundamental understanding of the asset that they're holding. We know why they're holding it aside from the fact that the price is going up. And, you know, you could see this in the data as well. And when we get back into the bear market, you know, some of those individuals that, you know, come into, into the bull, they stay around, although again, a lot of them, a lot of them do leave. But the kind of key takeaway is that like every bear market, that base of people who stay is higher and higher and higher. And, you know, when you're down 70 to 80% in asset, you know, especially lately, right? I mean, we've got again, a tremendous, and we can get into this in a moment,

• 8:24Speaker 02

  tremendous amount of forced selling from basically every type of entity that you could think of in the space. You know, you've got, you know, the worst macro environment that I've ever seen in my short little career in markets. And you've got all that kind of uncertainty, you know, who's buying down 70, 80%? You know, these are people who are likely relatively. You know, you have some some traders that are perhaps looking for like a short term mean reversion trade, but I would say the vast majority of it are likely, you know, people who are relatively time insensitive and are looking to, you know, accumulate this this asset at a distressed price. And so that, you know, when you're down eighty eighty-five percent at the bottom of every Bitcoin bear market, you know, the people that that are

• 9:07Speaker 02

  buying down there and the the quote unquote, you know, cohort of of, you know, hands that that the supply gets concentrated into are those who aren't going to sell most likely for for, you know, a twenty thirty percent move. And that's what allows, you know, these these moves back to the upside to be so aggressive in the same way that, you know, the downside moves are so aggressive because the people that are buying, you know, once the asset is up, you know, ten X from the bottom, you know, these are people that are, you know, likely just going to get shaken out once once number isn't going up anymore. So these dynamics really cause, you know, a bit more momentum and fuel to the to the

• 9:49Speaker 02

  typical, you know, market cycles that you would see in Bitcoin. And again, you know, some of it as well as is there's been a lack, at least historically, of a way to kind of tie in Bitcoin to a fundamental valuation. I mean, I would argue some of the on-chain related stuff is the best way to do so that we have. But I do think that that kind of exacerbates a lot of the fear and greed around just sole price action.

• 10:14Anthony Pompliano?

  Talk a little bit about reflexivity. I've seen you tweet a number of different times about that concept and maybe explain how you think about what is kind of a timeless investing idea, or at least one that's been around for a while now. Obviously, Soros and many others have popularized. And then why you're so interested in reflexivity when you're analyzing, you know, the Bitcoin and crypto market?

• 10:38Speaker 02

  Sure. So I've got this book on my desk right here. It's called The Alchemy of Finance by George Soros. And I know some people don't like George Soros for some non-financial related reasons. I would say, you know, you can pull someone's ideas out, you know, even If you disagree with other aspects of them. So I'm gonna, you know, not comment on some of those alternative reasons why people dislike Soros. But I do think from a financial markets perspective, he's got a lot of valuable insight. In the book, you know, he, he talks about in like the first five pages, he talks about this concept of reflexivity.

• 11:13Speaker 02

  Kind of from a high level and the way to kind of think about it is that price movements and, and actions in the marketplace reinforce these, these beliefs or behaviors. So, you know, for example, as you know, you, you, you think Bitcoin is going to be more widely adopted by, you know, corporate balance sheets, right? And that's something that a lot of us thought in, in late 2020. You know, we saw Sailor buy in, uh, and then, you know, after that, we saw Tesla add Bitcoin to their balance sheet at the beginning of February 2021. You know, at the time, that reinforces that belief from market participants that you're going to see continued adding of Bitcoin to corporate ballot sheets and that, that extension of, of belief

• 11:58Speaker 02

  in, in, you know, optimism in the market gets extended because of the actions that are taking place and it reinforces and further pushes out the expectations of, of market participants. And that, you know, that happens conversely to the downside as well, where, you know, you have, you know, uh, bad news events or, or, um, events that, that are, you know, quite bearish, like some of the things we've been seeing lately, uh, with some of these blowups from different entities in the space that reinforce and, and continue to push people's expectations lower and lower and lower. Uh, and again, I, I think a lot of that in the, in the Bitcoin and crypto market gets exacerbated

• 12:39Speaker 02

  because of kind of the lack of, you know, saying, okay, well, you know, Bitcoin is at this relative to its, you know, free cash flows that it's, it's drawing in. Again, I, I do think there's other ways to value Bitcoin aside from that, but I think that, you know, the sensitivity to basing Bitcoin's value off of price action really kind of, uh, extends out some of those, those effects of the reflexivity in the marketplace. You know, a lot of people were talking about, um, you know, over the last two, two, three years, the concept of, of, you know, the super cycle, which I personally never bought into, uh, but you know, it, the reason why. Was was really eloquently stated by Light. So there's this guy Light Crypto. He's supposedly

• 13:24Speaker 02

  a prop trader on Twitter. He's anonymous. But I think he's got a lot of insightful things to say. And he went on a podcast, actually at the Pico top of last year. And I was listening back to it last week. And, you know, one thing that he said that basically ties into what's what's stated by Soros is that, you know, although an asset can go through a super cycle, and, you know, obviously, not a whole lot changes fundamentally with the Bitcoin protocol, but the infrastructure around it does does change, evolve, and mature. But, you know, the other crypto assets, you know, you have new, you know, innovation, whether they need, you know, whether they're decentralized or need a token, like, that's a whole nother discussion I don't want to get into. But like, you know, I would say that the utility of

• 14:07Speaker 02

  something like a Maker, you know, Maker Dow or Uniswap is better than the garbage that was around in the 2018 ICO craze. So, you know, you have increasing utility of the underlying technology. And again, the infrastructure around Bitcoin. And, you know, that can go through a super cycle. But what does not change is the underlying, you know, human behavior, and the kind of psychological dynamic of fear and greed that drives markets. And, you know, no matter how strong the improvement of the underlying technology can be, that doesn't mean that humans will not always continue to push out expectations further than the underlying value is, no matter how strong it is. And conversely, to the downside,

• 14:52Speaker 02

  no matter how bad things get, humans will always push expectations lower than they actually truly should be because of kind of that that dynamic that Soros talks about.

• 15:02Anthony Pompliano?

  So when you take that idea, and you look back over the last couple of weeks with all the the contagion, the unsecured lending, you know, just all kind of the chaos and uncertainty there, how do you think through what was like mechanical in the industry of just like, yes, this was very obviously going to unwind versus what is more like psychologically driven or kind of fear and uncertainty driven, where there's people actually panic selling and doing that. And the reason why I ask kind of backwards looking is, I think it's really hard to understand what's going to happen in the future. But at least if we do analysis on the last couple of weeks, what would your kind of process look like there?

• 15:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, the the fear side is a bit more difficult because it's not quantitative. But like, I mean, to start, so, you know, when we look at what's taken place with, you know, all these these crypto lenders, right? I mean, a lot of this has been, you know, people seeing that, okay, perhaps, you know, maybe this this platform that I'm using isn't solvent, or, you know, they have some some, you know, mismatched assets and liabilities. I'm going to pull my assets off the platform. And so essentially, we've seen kind of a classic, you know, bank run style event take place on some of these platforms. Um, you know, and also, by the way, that's reflected in in the on-chain data.

• 16:27Speaker 02

  Um, when we look at like, exchange outflows from centralized platforms, um, we've seen the strongest amount of exchange outflows in Bitcoin's history, like, straight up. Um, and, you know, whether, you know, I think the market's gotten a bit more nuanced to say whether that has like, direct price-related effects. Um, I I would say that, you know, I think that's a reflection of, in in recent times, just kind of the hysteria around people questioning the solvency of any centralized entity in the crypto space, and is also why, you know, Bitcoiners advocate to say, not your keys, not your coins. Um, so, you know, that's one example of, perhaps, you know, maybe some of these entities did have,

• 17:09Speaker 02

  you know, bad debt, but then on top of that, you had, you know, users withdrawing their funds because they they became concerned around a lot of the contagion effects, and that perhaps, you know, exacerbated some things. But, I mean, look, I think, again, and now I guess we can get into this stuff in a bit more granularity, but like, there has been a lot of for-selling that's that's taken place. Um, you know, let's just, I guess, let's just start with uh, this one chart. So I, I'm not sure if uh, Which one? Jordy has the the uh newsletter up. Let's look at, so it's it's the correlation of Bitcoin's market cap and ETH's market cap to the crypto market cap. It's like the third chart down in the newsletter.

• 17:54Anthony Pompliano?

  And this one shows the market cap of Bitcoin and the market cap of ETH at top and then the correlations kind of going down, right?

• 18:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. So we're looking at Bitcoin's market cap plus Ethereum's market cap. And then we're running a correlation of that to the crypto market cap excluding Bitcoin and ETH. And so, you know, as, as most people in the, in the space know, Bitcoin and ETH are really the two most liquid assets. You know, of course, there's, there's Tether and USDC, but you know, those aren't, you know, directional assets. You know, crypto, I mean Bitcoin and ETH are really the only two, you know, liquid crypto assets in the space. And so what's interesting to me about this chart is when you see this decline in, in the correlation, it's, it's pretty strange.

• 18:45Speaker 02

  It's like probably like the most aggressive decline in, in correlation that you've seen between these two in, in a long time. What, what I think this is representing is forced selling. And the reason is because, you know, in, in an event like this, where, you know, either you have, you know, recently we just, you know, we just finished out the, the second quarter. So you have not only at the end of the quarter, but also the end of the first half of the year and the end of the month, like all three of those things. You know, perhaps you have some fund redemptions taking place. And then you can also have, you know, some of these lenders concerned about the solvency of all their counterparties.

• 19:25Speaker 02

  So they're asking them to post collateral just to, you know, see if they, if they do have the assets that they're claiming to have. You know, all these kinds of things perhaps are, are forcing people to, you know, trim off holdings in, in assets that, you know, they, they have to trim off, not assets that they necessarily want to trim off. And, and you know, the, the only, again, the only assets that really have, you know, liquidity to absorb large, you know, large outflows are BTC and ETH. You know, a lot of these, a lot of these altcoins just really are just getting all the liquidity and then dried up. So, you know, even if you want to exit a position, you really can't do so without, you know, having a like material effect on the, on the price.

• 20:08Speaker 02

  And then on top of that, let's say you're like a VC invested in some project from like, you know, some seed stage, you know, you're not going to really want to. Drive the price down 70% because that's just going to really hurt your reputation as a VC. So I think a lot of these things have kind of added up to seeing this, what appears to me as a dynamic of for selling of the two most liquid assets in the space.

• 20:32Anthony Pompliano?

  So when you start to look at, you know, something like this, let's then overlay it with Murad in his much anticipated return to Twitter. He started to post this graphic or this chart. And what he shows is the Bitcoin USD trading pair. And then he shows the total amount of Tether and USDC. And they appear, at least visually, to be inversely correlated. When Bitcoin goes down, it appears that there's more stable coins there. Is it just that simple? Like, there's an inverse correlation or no?

• 21:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, so what this chart is essentially comparing is just the total crypto market cap to USDT and USDC, which are the two largest stable coins. And so kind of the concept behind this is that whenever you get to kind of the upper bound of this like ascending channel, that means that there's a large amount of capital sitting in stables versus being deployed in the crypto market. And then whenever you get to the bottom end of the channel, what that is showing you is that there's a large amount of capital deployed into actual liquid tokens relative to the amount of, you know, kind of dry powder through stable coins sitting on the sideline.

• 21:56Speaker 02

  And, you know, as you'll see, we're kind of around that question mark. What Murad is essentially, you know, kind of hypothesizing in this chart is that you've got a large amount of assets sitting in dry powder via stable coins relative to being deployed in the crypto market. And, you know, as you can see, sometimes, you know, we kind of hang out on that, on that upper bound for, you know, perhaps a month or two. But, you know, generally speaking, whenever you're pushing up against that upper bound of the channel, that's been a good time to accumulate. And, you know, part of, you know, part of Moves is not necessarily, it's people like being on the sideline and not, you know, being in the market and then forcing them to chase. And I would say there's a fair amount

• 22:41Speaker 02

  of people because of a lot of the uncertainty that are waiting for the market to show them strength to get back in. So that's just something to kind of put this into context with, with, you know, perhaps as, you know, if the market did move up, you would see people, you know, want to wait for that confirmation to get back out of stables. But for now, you're seeing a large amount of dry powder that's kind of sitting on the sideline relative to being deployed in the actual market.

• 23:05Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. You also recently put out some charts around the Bitcoin four-year trend, and you identified that that four-year trend, Bitcoin is trading below it for only the fourth time ever. How important is that? Like, only four times in the history of Bitcoin sounds like it's super, super important, but how do you evaluate this?

• 23:26Speaker 02

  Sure. I mean, when we talked earlier about, you know, how do we value Bitcoin? I would say there's, there's two, two real ways to do so. One would be looking at kind of the underlying, like fundamental dynamics via on-chain, what's going on with miners, those types of things. And the other would be more price and trend related. So what this is looking at is the latter. So we're looking at the four-year price trend of BTC. We've seen Michael Saylor post about this. And then when we look at, I kind of unselected these other metrics in the chart, but you can also look at the number of standard deviations from the four-year trend. That's been kind of a good signal to see where Bitcoin's peaking

• 24:08Speaker 02

  out. But this four-year trend has historically served as kind of this support area for Bitcoin in bear markets. When we look at 2015, excuse me, 2018, 2020, and then as well, recently, we're below it. It's just, again, the fourth time ever that we've, that we've gone below. You know, I think the question when we look at a lot of these metrics, you know, across the board is, you know, these are all in like these deep value levels, but the argument to be made is like, is this time different because of kind of the? The macro backdrop, I don't, you know, I don't know, you know, obviously, you know, no one knows time will tell, but I, I think, you know,

• 24:49Speaker 02

  a, a, at least from, you know, a long-term investor's perspective, it's a good time to start, you know, putting some, some dry powder in, in, in the market and, you know, starting to average in a bit here uh, at these kind of levels that historically, you know, marked Bitcoins, uh, at least, you know, a, a, an accumulation and, and bottoming zone. You know, another good example is like, looking at the, uh, the next chart, this is the, basically the, the deviation from the 200A trend. Uh, and then we also up there have realized price, which is like the average cost basis of all the investors in the market. Bitcoins only ever traded below both of those for 3% of its existence.

• 25:28Speaker 02

  And a lot of that took place in, in that, that portion in, in 2011. And if you, you know, pulled that bit out, it would be even smaller than, than 3%. Uh, but it's just another, you know, way to, to, to illustrate, you know, we're, we're at historical levels of, of what appears to be, you know, cheap valuation, relative historical valuation um, for Bitcoin. I think, um, one, one last, I guess, dynamic we could talk about is, is the dynamics with miners. That's been something that I think has been important to, to keep in mind lately. Uh, and it also kind of ties into a lot of the forced selling, uh, that, that we talked about has been taking place. Uh, so for several weeks now, we've been putting in the newsletter,

• 26:10Speaker 02

  uh, essentially that you, you're seeing favorable conditions for miners to starting to have to unplug. Uh, I tweeted about a month ago that I said, you know, lower Bitcoin price, higher hash and difficulty and higher energy costs have put serious pressure on miner margins. Hash price is now the lowest since October of 2020. Uh, hash ribbons have crossed, and I'll, I'll talk about what all this means. Hash ribbons have crossed, indicating machines unplugging and miners sending Bitcoin to exchanges. So what's been taking place is You have this kind of delayed effect historically with hash and price. So you know, there's a delay in when you order ASICs and when you're actually able to plug them in for a variety of reasons.

• 26:55Speaker 02

  But you know, if we go back and look, you know, the most recent before now was, you know, 2017, 2018. You saw Bitcoin's price peak at 20K and actual hash rate, you know, didn't peak until two, three, four months after that. And what happens is like miners are essentially, the way you can think of it is they're long Bitcoin price, short hash rate and thus short difficulty as well, which is a byproduct of hash rate. And so what happens is like the, the price is going down of Bitcoin while it's becoming increasingly competitive to get the, the same miner revenue. And so what, what you can look at to illustrate this is something called hash price. So this compares miner revenue and Bitcoin's price.

• 27:40Speaker 02

  And hash price is at the lowest that it's been since mid to late 2020. So it's just showing you, it's, I think hash price is a good way to kind of illustrate the compression of, of miner margins. And then you throw on that, we've got, you know, inflation at 40 year highs and a lot of that has been driven from, from energy costs. So you've also got, you know, higher, higher energy costs, which is miners biggest operational expenditure that, that they have on top of that. So, you know, all that puts together kind of the perfect recipe for a lot of miner margin compression. And so at the time of posting this, like a month ago, you had saw hash ribbons, which are looking at the 30 and 60 day

• 28:22Speaker 02

  moving averages of hash rate starting to cross, which had illustrated that you're starting to see some machines getting unplugged. Now we've seen confirmation of that cross and we've, we've, we've seen the, the 30 day cross pretty significantly below the 60 day, which is showing you that machines are starting to get unplugged. And then on top of that, we've started to see over the last month, especially after I, after I posted this.

• 28:51Speaker 02

  Inflows of BTC from miners to exchanges. And then kind of the cherry on top was over the last few days, we saw Core Scientific selling off 7,202 BTC at an average price of 23K, which comes out to about 167 million dollars that they had to liquidate. And so, you know, the dynamics that we're seeing here with miners have taken place before. You know, you had Nick Carter on about a month ago, and he talked about how miners are really pro cyclical force for Bitcoin. So, you know, they hold their assets in the bull market. And then as you know, you kind of see that that turn around and all the dynamics that

• 29:34Speaker 02

  we just described, you know, hash continuing to come online while price is coming down. And then you throw on now the rising energy costs. Those margins really come under pressure and the inefficient miners that don't have access to the cheapest energy, they have to at a minimum, you know, unplug their machines at a worst case, liquidate their operations. And so I do think you've seen a lot of that. And, you know, as long as Bitcoin's price hangs out down here, and if it does go lower, then you'll see continued pressure on some of those miners. And I do think you'll see some consolidation of miners who perhaps got a bit too greedy and, you know, didn't manage risk as well as others over the last two years.

• 30:14Anthony Pompliano?

  I think that as people wake up to what's happening, obviously in hindsight, it's very easy to kind of identify all of this stuff, right? And be like, hey, this is why this is occurring. And right now, it's super valuable to people because they're starting to realize, okay, the price doesn't just magically go up, the price doesn't just magically go down. There's actual things that are driving that price. And once they start to understand what's happened, they start to see how complex and intertwined so much of this is. Everything from the contagion to the miner selling, the price, the difficulty adjustment, the cost of electric, like, there's just so much of it that is interrelated. Before we let you go, where can we send people to find you on the internet or subscribe to the Blockware newsletter?

• 30:57Speaker 02

  Sure. No, thanks, man. I'm on Twitter at W Clemente. I appreciate you have me on. I tried to put on the dress shirt to get on your level with the suit. You know, we got to do, we got to do here in this bear market. You could check out the newsletter. It's in my bio at blockwareintelligence.com if you're interested in anything

• 31:15Anthony Pompliano?

  Will, you, you, you own a suit and tie?

• 31:18Speaker 02

  Uh, I do. I have one.

• 31:20Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, I have one too. This is the only one I have and I, I wear it every day now until the bear market. We gotta get the bear market over. John laughs all the time because he's like, we gotta get this over because he's tired of wearing the suit and tie already.

• 31:30Speaker 02

  Where's John's suit?

• 31:32Anthony Pompliano?

  John is

• 31:32Speaker 03

  I'm right here in a T-shirt.

• 31:35Anthony Pompliano?

  John's too smart to, to have signed up for the suit and tie.

• 31:38Speaker 03

  I was gonna say, Will, the Patagonia makes you, makes me think you're joining Wall Street.

• 31:43Speaker 02

  Man, I went to, um, I went to New York two weeks ago and I went, I went and met someone in like the financial district. I was walking through and I, I saw Bill Ackman walking around, by the way, and I was trying to get him to buy our internet Ponzi, but he wasn't interested. Um, I, I saw a bunch of, I saw a bunch of the guys walking around, like, you know, the JP Morgan building, the BlackRock building, and they were all wearing this vest. And it was after I bought it. I was like, oh God, like I'm really like a finance bro now.

• 32:13Anthony Pompliano?

  That's the, that's the uniform. If you don't got the uniform on, then, uh, then you're in violation. All right, buddy. Sounds good. We'll talk soon and we'll do it again next Friday.

• 32:22Speaker 02

  All right. Thanks guys for having me.

• 32:23Anthony Pompliano?

  Later.

• 32:23Speaker 02

  Take care.

• 32:25Anthony Pompliano?

  Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. I really hope you guys enjoyed this one. Make sure you subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player. And if you're looking to try to transition to get a new job in the Bitcoin or crypto industry, we've got you covered. Head over to pompscryptocourse.com. We've developed a curriculum with the top teams across the industry. It's a three-week intensive training program with over 50 events packed into that three-week time period. Go to pompscryptocourse.com to learn more and I'll meet you guys for the next episode.