#1015 Dylan LeClair On The Liquidation Of The Crypto Market

Dylan LeClair is the Senior Market Analyst at UTXO Management, a digital asset fund investing in the analog to digital transformation of money and the emergent financial system. In this conversation, we discuss Bitcoin, on-chain metrics, the bond market, inflation, all of the leverage that has been liquidated in the Crypto market, and when we might see a bottom in this bear market. Dylan joins us every Tuesday on "The Best Business Show." To see the video with the corresponding charts that Dylan references throughout the interview, go to "The Best Business Show: LIVE" YouTube Channel ======================= BCB Group is the leading payment services partner for the digital assets industry. BCB Group provides payment services in 30+ currencies, FX, cryptocurrency liquidity, digital asset custody and BLINC, which is BCB’s free, instant settlements network for the BCB client ecosystem. Find out more by visiting bcbgroup.com/pomp ======================= Brave Wallet is the first secure crypto wallet built natively in a web3 crypto browser. No extension required. Store, manage, and grow your portfolio, get NFT & multi-chain support, and more. Download the Brave privacy browser at brave.com/Pomp, and click the wallet icon to get started. =======================

• 0:02Speaker 00

  What's up everyone, this is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, simply the best podcast out there. Now let's kick this thing off. Dylan Leclerc is the Senior Market Analyst at UTXO Management. He also writes a newsletter with Bitcoin Magazine. In this conversation, we talk about Bitcoin, on-chain metrics, we talk about Bitcoin's price, the market structure, and what to expect in the coming weeks. I really enjoyed this conversation with Dylan, and I hope you do as well. Before we get into this episode, though, I want to quickly talk about our sponsors. This episode is brought to you by FTX US. FTX.us is the safe, regulated way to buy and sell Bitcoin and other digital assets. You can trade crypto with up to 85% lower fees than

• 0:44Speaker 00

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• 1:26Speaker 00

  your crypto wallet. Most wallets are browser extensions, a Web2 technology. That means the same old risks, app spoofing, phishing scams, and theft. Brave Wallet is different. Brave Wallet is the first secure wallet built natively in a Web3 crypto browser. No extension required. With Brave Wallet, you can buy, store, send, and swap assets, manage NFTs, even connect other wallets and dApps, all from the security of the best privacy browser on the market. Whether you're new to crypto or a seasoned pro, it's time to ditch those risky extensions. It's time to switch to Brave Wallet. Download Brave at brave.com/pomp and click the wallet icon to get started. Again, go download Brave at brave.com/pomp and click the wallet icon to get started.

• 2:10Speaker 00

  Brought to you by BCB Group. With a dedicated focus on institutional payment services, BCB Group provides business banking, cryptocurrency and foreign exchange market liquidity for many of the world's largest crypto-engaged financial institutions. BCB business accounts allow businesses to load fiat currency and cryptocurrencies for payments, operations and trading purposes. BCB's clients can trade FX and cryptocurrencies quickly and at scale with market-leading value. BCB's Blink network is the European crypto industry's first instant settlements network and one of the first real-time payment networks of its kind to allow free, real-time transactions across fiat and digital currencies. BCB's vision is to empower the global financial revolution through sustainable and innovative banking. You can find out more by visiting bcbgroup.com/pomp today. Again, if you want

• 2:55Speaker 00

  to learn more, go to bcbgroup.com/pomp today.

• 2:58Speaker 01

  Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

• 3:22Speaker 00

  We've got Dylan Leclerc joining us. Dylan, my friend, how are you? Sup, Pomp. I forgot to suit this week, but maybe next week. Don't worry, man. I'll get it on. I got, I got, I got the bear market armor on. We're ready to rock and roll. We'll defeat this at some point. Give me a, give me a quick sentiment check on how you're thinking about the market right now. Obviously, over the weekend, we saw Bitcoin crash down to, you know, 17,000. It's come back now, trading at over $21,000. What are your general thoughts? Is that the bottom? Is it something to continue to pay attention to? Like, walk me through just from a sentiment standpoint, how you're feeling? Yeah, crazy weekend. It was actually, the craziest part about all this is that a lot

• 4:06Speaker 00

  of the, the kind of the liquidations, and you know, you see these, these live players with collateralized Bitcoin, collateralized Ethereum, a lot of it's on this, you know, these transparent DeFi networks with, with liquidation levels that-

• 4:20Speaker 00

  Anyone can see. And so there was actually, you know, Ethereum actually takes, you know, 10 cents away from a huge liquidation bomb during the peak of all the craziness. Uh, so I mean, that was certainly kind of a, you know, a market frenzy, uh, good place to buy. Obviously I got a, I got a buy in at 17.8. So I feel good about that. Uh, but I think, I think we're still in a kind of a macro environment where there's a lot of uncertainty. There's a lot of volatility. Uh, we can talk about it a little later in the show. But just in terms of the crypto contagion, that's obviously been the driving force in the Bitcoin market. Um, and I don't know if we're at the, at the end of it all. Uh, we, we saw an announcement today, uh, with, uh, FTX extending a line of credit to BlockFi.

• 5:01Speaker 00

  They just did the same with Voyager, another similar yield platform. Uh, so it certainly seems like there's, there's some assistance kind of in the crypto industry, uh, to kind of, you know, stabilize things. But I don't know if we're out of the, out of the weeds yet. So when you start to see, uh, some of the contagion that's actually happening across the market, uh, is a lot of this just based on leverage? Or like, how would you, uh, if you were a doctor, trying to diagnose the problem? We see what the side effects are in terms of a lot of the contagion, but like, where can you pinpoint exactly what has driven this or caused a lot of the issues?

• 5:41Speaker 00

  Yeah. So a lot of the leverage, um, in previous market cycles was, was in these derivative markets that were built out. You can think of the Bitmexes of the world, the Binance's of the world. That's pretty transparent. We saw that. This cycle was with the rise of DeFi, uh, added another layer of leverage. Um, so you had all these funds, um, all these, all these kind of market participants that were stacking leverage on top of leverage on top of leverage. Uh, and while, and while the, you know, the cycle was going, the bull market was in full force, uh, everything worked fine. Uh, but on the other side of this, uh, we're seeing a lot of that get wiped out and purged. And so I still think there is some leverage out there. There is some bad debt that probably ends up liquidated. Uh, I think that's kind of the slow grind we're in. It's just, it's just purging the market of all that debt.

• 6:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's fascinating to kind of think through this. You've got some charts here. Maybe let's go through those and then we'll come back to, uh, to Bitcoin and crypto. Um, you've got the, uh, US equity plus all US bonds market value, uh, not going so hot. Big, big. Drawdown here. What is this showing us? Yeah, total bond market equity market value basically lost from all time highs as a percent of GDP. So historic drawdown in record time, even surpassing the COVID lows, right? So you could just see we had this everything bubble that's that's deflating faster than I think most market participants could have expected. This is a result of soaring yields. Obviously, we know the energy and commodity situation.

• 7:06Speaker 00

  And so not just crypto specific, obviously, I think if you add, you know, add crypto in here, it would be another trillion, $2 trillion of kind of wealth destruction. But but really, you know, bond and equity markets have lost almost $16 trillion, and that's just US markets. So include global markets and it's a lot uglier. So I think it's important to just have some kind of context. Obviously Bitcoin's taken a beating, but it's not isolated and really it's about the liquidity tide falling out. Yeah, I mean, this is just wild when you see it. It's more than the 2008 financial crisis. It's more than the COVID crisis, just absolute off a cliff drawdown there. When we look at treasury bond futures, what are you seeing here?

• 7:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, just kind of another way to visualize this, right? The treasury bond, the US treasury bond is the driving force in all global markets. It's still is king, the dollar still is king at the moment, still is the world reserve currency. And so these are long dated treasury bond futures and they're getting killed, right? So so the bond bubble, right? People like to talk about the equity market bubble, if you want to think think of like the everything bubble. But really what it was, was it was a global bond bubble. And with with this record inflation, and there was high inflation for a while, but as it continued to accelerate, the bond market realized, you know, these bondholders, they were the patsies at the table. And so that's this sell off in bond is really what's causing this pullback everywhere else.

• 8:34Speaker 00

  As yields soar higher and people realize that, you know, that the net present value of their assets as as duration gets killed. And you can think of that duration. As yields rise, so the the value of a growth stock, why does it come down when yields rise? Well, when you're doing cash flow models and you have to account for rising costs of capital, even if in real terms, it's still negative with current inflation. This is why really this is like kind of another way to view that liquidity tide is when is when bonds are getting killed. This is treasury bond futures, when the long dated treasury is getting killed. It's it's going to be a tough environment for risk. We've got the dollar currency index here and it's just up only.

• 9:17Speaker 00

  Uh, looks like what Bitcoin and crypto used to look like, uh, but now it's the dollar strengthening against, uh, you know, other fiat currencies. How do you look at this in the macro environment? Yeah, so we can talk about consumer price inflation. That's obviously top of everyone's mind. It's important to understand that we're kind of in this Max Payne scenario where inflation inflation is soaring. Risk assets are selling off at the same time that the dollar, which is the world reserve currency, is is strengthening against almost all global fiat. So the euro, the yen in particular, um, especially the yen, uh, where the Japanese, the Bank of Japan are conducting yield curve control. Uh, this is kind of that Max Payne scenario for not for not US citizens, uh, but global citizens, especially emerging markets with dollar denominated debt.

• 10:02Speaker 00

  Uh, the dollar source higher, uh, this essentially plunges the world into recession. So, uh, the Fed is, the Fed actually has, uh, kind of a lot, a lot of power, um, right now and are making up their policy error, uh, with this this rapid tightening policy. So, uh, the higher the Dixie goes, the dollar currency index, even if there's a relative, uh, decay in the dollar's purchasing power in real goods and services, uh, this can cause a lot of, a lot of pain for global risk. And that's, that's what's playing out. Yeah, I mean, it's just crazy to watch all this, uh, and the interconnectedness, I think, of these various assets as the, uh, the macro environment unfolds. We've got bond market volatility up and equity market volatility up. As well, how do you think about these two?

• 10:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, we're, I think we're headed for kind of a point of singularity or, you know, a reckoning point. We've obviously had a lot of pain in equities, a lot of pain in bonds, a lot of pain in Bitcoin crypto. But I think this all kind of ends, or not ends, but it's coming to a head with, with a blowout in, in spreads and volatility in equity and bond market and maybe even further volatility in Bitcoin, even though that's, that's quite volatile. So especially bond market volatility, when you have the most liquid asset in the world, the asset class, the bond market trading with this level of volatility not seen since really, oh, wait, we're surpassing those, those COVID highs as we speak.

• 11:26Speaker 00

  You know, the world's in trouble or really, you know, global risk assets are in trouble, asset, financial markets. And so probably equity market volatility, bond market volatility explode higher. I certainly don't think that the, the high for the VIX has been put in. And so, you know, spell some trouble for risk assets. I think we're in a little bit of a bear market rally here, but most of this stuff is, the charts are saying that the worst, the worst isn't over. And how would you measure how bad it could get? Like the worst isn't over, but is there anything on these charts specifically around market volatility that would signal? Okay, this is where my expectation would be. Is it just, hey, where was the COVID high or where was the global financial crisis high?

• 12:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's, it's tough to conduct, you know, technical analysis on, on volatility charts of the VIX. I mean, certain people try to do it and maybe, maybe it works, but I really think what it, what it comes down to, and it's, it's somewhat, I'm not unfortunate, but it's somewhat comical that we're at this point where we're all just waiting for a Fed pivot. But essentially there's so much debt out there, there's so much dollars nominated that, and there's, and yields continue to rise where the entire world's just essentially waiting for the Fed to cause enough pain for them to pivot. So every time. When you see these blowouts and volatility, what brings it back in is easing a central bank stimulus. It's not a free market force, and that's important to understand.

• 12:51Speaker 00

  So I think ultimately what we're headed towards is an absolute explosion of volatility and a reaction by kind of a central bank and, you know, a fiscal and monetary response is what we're headed towards, in my opinion. So obviously volatility works in both directions, up and down. When you say an explosion of volatility, does that necessarily mean that it's only down in kind of a continuation of the trend of the last six to eight months? Or could volatility be some sort of reflexive, you know, type response? And actually, the volatility could continue, but it could be a recovery of prices for various assets, depending on what the Fed does? Yeah, that's a great point. I think it's worth noting that some of the most explosive rallies come during bear markets.

• 13:35Speaker 00

  When volatility is this elevated, right? So usually you can think of the Fed put as kind of a, they're selling volatility and they're dampening that volatility down, right? So that Fed put is not in the room with us today. And what essentially, I think, I think you can think of a lot of these like bear market rallies, like we have the S and P, the Nasdaq up 3% today. Bitcoin's doing well. So we're obviously going to see some rips to the upside. But ultimately, I think what really the market is headed towards is an explosion upwards. Risk assets could go down and, you know, we need that Fed put to come in. And we might be a long ways away from that with the inflationary environment. Yeah.

• 14:18Speaker 00

  When you look at something like the five-year break even inflation rate here, what is this telling us? And how should people think about a five-year break even inflation rate? Just like in the context of what this data point actually means? Yeah, so it's pretty interesting and I don't put, I don't put all of my kind of weight on this. But I think it's worth noting because this is what the bond traders are looking at. And it's this kind of inflation expectation gauge. And you saw post-COVID, post all the stimulus, the wreckage in supply chains. These inflation break even expectations for the next five years on average, just fixed. Exploded upwards and 3.5% doesn't seem too high. Inflation currently is around eight or nine percent in the US. But this is that kind of blended average for the next five years.

• 15:02Speaker 00

  And the bond market was saying, hey, you know, inflation, there's, there's, there's really, this thing is skyrocketing. And since, you know, around the, a couple of months back, it's, it's somewhat topped and it's actually coming back in. And so I think the real key here is that we're, we're in this huge inflationary impulse as the economy is slowing, as growth is slowing down. You have the Atlanta Fed saying, hey, we're revising our, our GDP forecast from growth to no growth to now negative growth. And I think that trend continues. And so what, what the bond market, I think, will soon start to price in is this inflationary impulse in, in CPI and commodities and a sell off in risk is going to quickly turn into a deflationary collapse or deflationary impulse, if you will.

• 15:46Speaker 00

  And so we can see this with inflation break evens as, as these start to collapse and as bond yields start to fall as well. That's, that's when this kind of inflationary or maybe stagflationary environment turns into a, you know, a deep recession and a, and a just an absolute, kind of all growth is, is gone from the economy. And so I think that's what we're kind of headed towards. And I think that's what ultimately merits the, the pivot in, in central bank policy. Yeah, it's crazy to, to kind of see this in, in visual form. We've got the Bitcoin 200 week moving average here. Hasn't hit the price and 200 week moving average many times.

• 16:25Speaker 00

  But obviously when it has, that's usually signaled some sort of bottoming of a bear market or, or liquidity crisis moment. Is that how you kind of internalize this now? Is folks should put weight on the 200 week moving average? Or is there some things that make you kind of wait to see if? Uh, if this will continue as a trend. Yeah, I mean, price can certainly go lower, it can certainly go higher. I just think of Bitcoin is historically running a four-year cycle that may or may not be over with. But really, you're you're kind of at this this four-year average that Bitcoin has only hit four times ever. It didn't even hit it during the 2018, 19 bear market. Briefly touched below it during the COVID lows. Um, so can prices go lower? Certainly.

• 17:08Speaker 00

  Uh, can there be more pain in the macro environment and more market volatility? Certainly. Uh, and you should always, whenever you buy Bitcoin, understand that there's a probability that that price can get cut in half from that point. Uh, but in terms of this risk reward over a a one-year, two-year, five-year, 10-year time horizon, uh, it doesn't get much better than this. Um, and so, uh, starting to allocate, starting to average in with with more size than you have been is certainly, in my opinion, a fantastic idea. Uh, and I I think that looking back, uh, at the at these levels, at these prices, uh, say, you know, again, one year out, two years out, five years out. Uh, it's gonna, in hindsight, be looked at as as, you know, one of those can't-miss buying opportunities.

• 17:49Speaker 00

  Talk to me about GBTC. Obviously, uh, we've got the discount now 30, 35% to NAV. Uh, there's tons of talk of ETF conversion. Um, you've got the GBTC Bitcoin cost equivalent right now. What is this showing us? Yeah, it's just that it's just that discount baked into the the market price. So right now, you you could buy GBTC, you can buy essentially Bitcoin for $14,000, markets trading at around 21,000. Um, obviously, doesn't have the properties of Bitcoin, the self-sovereignty, doesn't have the ability to send that, you know, zip it around the world, use it as collateral. You're trading it in a somewhat, uh, less liquid O OTC market.

• 18:33Speaker 00

  Uh, but for anyone with a, you know, in a retirement account, anyone that has money locked in a brokerage or any funds in particular. It's a fantastic way to gain Bitcoin exposure. Uh, and, you know, when that ETF converts, the interesting thing here is, say, with with a 35% discount. You buy that and eventual an ETF comes. What happens is you you get about a fifty four percent fifty three percent upside. If that goes to one to one equivalent. Right. So that's that's how math works. You know, if there's a ten percent, you get an eleven percent upside. If there's a twenty percent discount, I think back of napkin math, you get a thirty three percent upside.

• 19:13Speaker 00

  And so this this is pretty damn attractive. And it's it's honestly quite, I don't know what the right word is. It's it's it's laughable, really, that we don't have a spot ETF and we're and the market's still stuck with this huge GPTC discount. At the same time that they're approving futures ETFs and and short futures ETFs. Yeah, when you start to think about the short futures ETF getting approved, is that just like, hey, they're okay with futures? And so they've got the long and short and people shouldn't read too much into it? Or do you think that there is some sort of other way to view a short future ETF getting approved? Yeah, I mean, I don't think there's certainly you can kind of get conspiratorial with it. I don't put too much weight into it. There's other similar products. There's three X short.

• 19:57Speaker 00

  You know, equity markets, there's short bond market futures. There's all this stuff. So Bitcoin futures and CME long and short makes sense. I I mean, I don't understand why they don't have a spot index at this point. But yeah, I I think that it doesn't, it's not going to affect the market too much, in my opinion. For every long, there's a short. So, you know, let them pile in if they want. But I I don't think it's going to suppress the price, you know, like some of the gold bugs do. Yeah, and help people think through. I've seen a couple of people asking. Right now Bitcoin's at twenty one thousand five hundred. Obviously, over the weekend, it was down seventeen thousand. It's been hanging around twenty thousand. How do you look at maybe like intra day price movements?

• 20:38Speaker 00

  And whether it's importance or weight that you would place on the difference between seventeen twenty and twenty one? Is that all just like, hey, it's down, you know, seventy ish percent from the all time high? And so it's relatively the same? Or do you put more weight on trying to understand, you know, the difference? Between 21, 20 and 19. I mean, yeah, like, you know, in the future, I don't think it'll matter too much whether you bought 18, 17 or 21. But certainly if you buy at 17 rather than 21, you can get around 20, 25% more Bitcoin. So that's, that's obviously advantageous, you know, for anyone that's like, you know, is worried about timing the market. DCA works, so does limit orders. You know, if you're, if you're worried that we revisit 20K or 15K, set a limit order and if it fills, it fills.

• 21:21Speaker 00

  I think that's certainly a way to kind of keep some peace of mind in the volatile market. And, and you know, get rewarded if it goes lower. Obviously, if it goes higher, you might miss out, but you know, patience might be rewarded. So I think people shouldn't worry too much about, you know, a 5% move in a notoriously volatile asset. But at the same time, you could use it, you know, in your favor and set limit orders lower or attempt to trade it. I mean, I don't recommend that for the average Joe or the everyday person, but certainly some people do it with success. When you start to think about a lot of the contagion that's happening in the market right now, how do you think through where the market will end up coming out of this?

• 22:00Speaker 00

  So it seems like a lot of users like, hey, maybe this isn't nearly as, you know, beneficial as, as I thought for various products. But do you think that we will get to what I would consider like the holy grail for Bitcoiners, which is no fractional reserve banking, no rehypothecation, like all of those things that are rampant in the legacy financial system? Is that where you expect us to end up? Or do you think that Bitcoin will continue to be more and more financialized and have a lot of those same features of the legacy system in the steady state? Yeah, it's very tough, especially some of the yield products, right? Because Bitcoin is a bearer asset, there is no yield. So with the US Treasury bond, like it's a debt instrument, right?

• 22:41Speaker 00

  And it's an IOU, it's a future obligation, it's a liability of, of the US government and it's an asset here. So with Bitcoin, it's just a bearer asset, there is no liability side. And so those yield products are essentially, you know, you are giving it to someone else that's going to do something to generate that yield. So I certainly think that the, the no high, the no rehypothecation aspect will come. And there's already that, that kind of product with say collateralized loans with say an unchained capital, where they deposit in an address and you can watch it and you can watch that Bitcoin not move. But in terms of getting native yield, that's a different story. And I think that, that there will always be risks in here. To those type of products.

• 23:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's um, it's kind of wild to really think through just how much the industry is changing right now. You know, kind of live, right? When you also start to think to yourself, um, the types of businesses that are being built. We obviously had maybe in this last bull market into the current bear market that we're in. A huge influx of venture investing into some of these financialization, you know, type platforms or products. Is your expectation that maybe the next bull market will see capital flow in on other themes? Like, is it lightning enabled businesses? Is it Bitcoin only? Is it a continuation of what we've already seen?

• 24:04Speaker 00

  Like, talk through to me in terms of where you see value being created. And ultimately, that's kind of where venture dollars will follow. Yeah, I certainly think lightning is a, is a big, is a big theme that, that we have coming. It's, I mean, it may not be as profitable as some of these other ventures potentially. But it's, it's something that has huge use cases that are just being built out. We're just starting to understand some of the cool things that can be built with lightning. And just how, just how much better it is than the legacy system in terms of, you know, being able to send a bear instrument across time, across space, rather. I think Bitcoin mining is still something that's very, very, very under invested in. Obviously, we have a bunch of publicly traded companies, but I, I still think there's massive growth there.

• 24:50Speaker 00

  And, you know, obviously, the centralized exchanges, I think, you know, the, the FTXs of the world were built out of the, the last bear market. And so I think that, you know, we'll see another couple of those. Who knows what, you know, what companies or, you know, what products are being built out. But I certainly wouldn't bet against innovation despite being, you know, 70% down in the market currently. Yeah, when you start to, to think to yourself about regulation in the space. We've seen the Terra Luna UST. We've seen the Celsius situation. We've seen other places where FTX or Alameda have stepped in with lines of credit. How do you think about regulation changing, you know, in the years to come?

• 25:33Speaker 00

  And, and is the expectation that these market downturns essentially elicit both regulators saying, hey, we have to regulate it, but also market participants saying, look, maybe we actually do want more disclosures or more things that would Mimic what's going on in legacy system. Yeah, I think certainly that the crypto industry is is, you know, going to face some regulation. Whether that's a good or bad thing is up for, you know, interpretation. I think Bitcoin is kind of in a class of its own for for the, you know, and and that's a good thing. In the sense that it is a commodity, a digital commodity, it is property in the US, it is not a security. So there it's kind of isolated from some of the regulation, although not all of it.

• 26:15Speaker 00

  I think, you know, due to, say, the the collapse of U S T, some of the rehypothecation that's going on, the Celsius debacle. Regulation will will come out of this. But also, at the same time, there is a growing kind of lobby effort in Washington from Bitcoin only. From Bitcoin only firms as well as, you know, say, the F T X's of the world have a have a pretty big presence there as well. So I'm not too worried and I think, you know, over the long term, more regulatory clarity is a good thing. But hopefully it doesn't stifle some of the innovation that that that could come out of out of this industry. Yeah, I think a lot about regulatory clarity doesn't necessarily mean that you get the regulations you want. It just means that there's clarity, right?

• 26:57Speaker 00

  And that clarity could be something that maybe you didn't want, but but I think that that's an important difference. One other thing is that we're starting to see a lot of blurring of the lines between Bitcoin crypto industry. And the regular financial market. So obviously, we see the investors from the legacy market coming in, buying Bitcoin or cryptocurrencies. We also see the reverse happening a little bit. We obviously saw Sam Bankman Fried take a position in Robinhood. We've seen F T X this morning announce that they are buying a registered and regulated clearinghouse for their stock trading. We've seen other, you know, players that were in fintech add crypto as an option. Like, is this all end up in one place?

• 27:38Speaker 00

  Do we just see a consolidation and like finance now is just going to be both the legacy and the new system put together? And that's how people that are maybe under the age of 40 years old or something will end up treating it? Yeah, I think that's natural progression. Ultimately, Bitcoin is a monetary asset. It is a financial asset. Um, you know, how it's treated by different market participants is obviously different. Some people treat it as a unit of account. Some people treat it as just a speculative trading vehicle. Um, and so that's fine. Uh, but I think it was always kind of the end game that we were going to get this merger of the legacy system and this, this new system that we're building. Um, and so that's a net benefit, I think. Um, and I think the, the more that it's incorporated into the legacy world and the, the easier the on and off ramps are from

• 28:22Speaker 00

  this asset class, the better in the long run. So I think it's a very natural progression and it is a net benefit. Yeah. Before, uh, before I let you go, any, uh, any predictions or, uh, or things that you're paying attention to going into, uh, the July 4th weekend? Obviously we saw Arthur Hayes say, uh, buckle up, you know, four or five days of, uh, of no banking access might not be so hot and could provide for a lot of, uh, volatility. But what are you thinking going into that long weekend? Uh, no crazy outlandish predictions on my end. Uh, I'm just, just a happy stacker. I have some cash, ready to scoop up some, some Bitcoin, ready to scoop up some miners. Uh, I think we'll get, we'll, we'll get a pretty good discount, uh, here. It's just not, not even in Bitcoin, just across the board.

• 29:06Speaker 00

  Uh, I think some more volatility is coming in legacy world. So, uh, you know, I'm a, I'm a happy buyer here. Uh, and, and, you know, ready to, ready to scoop up some discounts on zip. All right, my friend. Where can we send people to find you on the internet? You can find me on Twitter at Dylan Leclerc underscore, uh, Reddit newsletter. You can find that at Bitcoin Magazine Pro. Uh, we're putting together a lot of this stuff and, uh, apologies if my, if my internet is, is somewhat laggy today. It seems like I've been getting some, some, uh, some any trouble. It's all right, buddy. Listen, if, uh, you have such a clear message that even with internet troubles, it comes through perfectly and everyone's Says, I know exactly what he's saying.

• 29:49Speaker 00

  I appreciate you joining us and we'll, we'll do it again next Tuesday. Great. Cheers. Later, buddy. Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. I really hope you guys enjoyed this one. Make sure you subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player. And if you're looking to try to transition to get a new job in the Bitcoin or crypto industry, we've got you covered. Head over to pompscryptocourse.com. We've developed a curriculum with the top teams across the industry. It's a three-week intensive training program with over 50 events packed into that three-week time period. Go to pompscryptocourse.com to learn more and I'll meet you guys for the next episode.