14134 Steve Harper Interviews Allan Philip Gold Retired District Psychologist at Reed Union School District

Broadcasting from the business capital of the world, this is the Podcast Business News Network. And this is for parents and even teachers, a lot of insight for you about our kids, our students, and that's coming from a gentleman who has helped many over many years, Dr. Alan Philip Gold, a school psychologist with the Reed School District in California for many years, joins us once again. How are you doing today?

Okay, thank you. How are you?

Very well. And I just realized as we were starting there that it has been some time since we talked about your tenure and what you've done over the years. Can we just, you know, basically go over your resume? It's been a long time since we talked about that.

Well, sure. I started in 1976 with three schools, elementary and middle, two elementary and middle school. My original job was to assess kids, but because it was a small district without a lot of bureaucracy, I would take advantage of any opportunity to help out teachers, kids, parents. So over the years, I had a very, very wide range of activities that I engaged in, which

kept me not bored for almost 50 years. So, for example, once, maybe two years into my job, I walked into a fifth grade class and they were talking about...

Development, you know, adolescence and it was called, they didn't call it sexual development, but you know, there was a euphemism for that. And I listened and then I decided, well, I want to be part of this. So for years and years and years, they, they would have joint male and female instruction from their regular teacher. And then after that was all over, we split up the girls and the boys. Although that was eventually in the very last years, decided not to do that. But I would take questions from the boys and the teachers who were usually female would

take questions from the girls. So it was called family life education. That's what it was called. And so, you know, I don't know that other school psychologists, you know, participated in that. But my regular jobs were a lot of counseling, individual. I set up groups for kids for a whole bunch of different needs, everything from divorce, divorced parents, social skills development organization for children with special needs

siblings, children whose parents were sick or even dying. And it wasn't like every year that I would do this, but I would look for opportunities to do something different. And because I had a math background, I started running math clubs at least 40 years ago and did that once a week for students who. Excelled in math and really liked it, so we would do a lot of problem solving and participation in Marin County, that's the county that I worked in, middle school annual contests.

I loved working with parents and administrators, but fairly early on, maybe thirty-five years ago, I started doing what I called grade level parent meetings, where I invited any parent who wanted to come. It was during the school day, so not everybody could do that, but I usually got twenty, thirty parents. And we would discuss the physical, cognitive, emotional, social, and moral development of kids that age. And so my purpose was to really explain to parents what was normal for that age, but

to set up really a community where parents were comfortable talking to other parents. And as kids got older, that became more and more necessary. So I did that once or twice a year from kindergarten through eighth grade. And, you know, if, if parents had a particular issue that they wanted to talk with me privately, then we would set up an appointment to do that. So it was a way to establish contact with parents as well as with, as well as with kids.

But, and I would, you know, like I would do cameo appearances and school plays, again, to kind of de-stigmatize my role as a mental health professional, so that kids could see, yeah, this is a real.

Human being, you know, I don't have to be scared to talk to to him.

Isn't it? I want to just you brought back a memory. The the people that our kids see in school, whether it's a psychologist, a teacher, I remember when when my kids were younger and you would happen to be in a restaurant and you see one of the teachers. It's a celebrity. It's a, oh, there's Mr. Jones. Look at Mr. Jones right over there. Look at that. And because they're out of their element and you're seeing them as regular people because our kids don't see them that way because they're in their roles and it would happen all the time.

There's often a shock that.

Yes.

There's often a shock when you see a an educator out of context. You know, that's very true.

Yes. It's actually kind of funny. Like, how does that make you feel? Like when you used to walk around and then, you know, uh, kids would point you out to their parents or whatever. Did it? It had to feel good.

I love it. I'd love it. Just yester, uh, no, Sunday, I was with a friend, a former high school teacher who just retired last, uh, June, um, at the Cherry Blossom Festival in Japantown in San Francisco. And one of his former students, um, recognized him. He didn't remember the student, but, um, you know, it was really neat. You know, just the, and it wasn't, uh, that old. He graduated in 2021, so we might have been only 23 or something. But, um, you know, it's always wonderful when somebody recognizes you. Um, out of context, that's happened to me many, many times.

Um, you know, if I'm, uh, walking around, you know, in Southern Marin County or even in San Francisco, and people will recognize you. Yeah.

How do you, and and and this is for for anybody that works in the school system. How do you remember names? I I still, even at my age, go to meet somebody, put the hand out, you know, even you repeat their name. That's supposed to be the secret. And it's like, you know, a week later, I'm like, ah, what was their name? How do you remember the, the, the names of students? And even, you know, potentially years later? Is there a formula or you're just wired that way?

Um, that's a good question because, um, you know, there's one of us and thousands of them. So I actually don't expect to remember everybody's name. If I've worked with them, um, for a number of weeks, that's easy. I mean, when I meet anybody, I really have to, um, say, tell me your name again, uh, at least twice, sometimes three times. Um, and, you know, I, over time I got less embarrassed about having to ask. I said, it's been a while, can you remind me your name again? And, uh, you know, um, so I, I don't feel, uh, embarrassed if I, if I forget.

That's a, that's a great way to present it, Alan, by, by saying it's been a while. Because if you just say, what was your name again? Now it, it makes them feel small, even if, if it's an adult. But if you say it's been a while, then it's reasonable to think like, yeah, not everybody can remember things over a period of time. So that kind of like, kind of sets the stage.

Yeah. I mean, teachers have the opportunity because they see their kids every day. So, I mean, I, I found that most teachers knew their kids, uh, names within less than a month, if not sooner. Um, but you know, for, for a school psychologist who interacts with many different kids, um, you know, I mean, if you see them, um, on campus, weekly, then you can remember. But you know, you know, particularly kids you don't, um, interact with, you know, if you're not counseling them or assessing them or anything like that. You know, I, I didn't expect that I would remember their names, but it's a good question, you know?

Hmm. So I want to pivot over to what we call what's really going on here. And we got emails to get to shortly. But this is where we give you a scenario, and you tell us what you think is really going on here. So this involves a 4th grader who consistently seeks out ways to assist the teacher, passing out papers, organizing supplies, helping classmates, even correcting others' work. It's appreciated initially, but then the behavior is becoming excessive, and sometimes overbearing, intrusive. And the student is having challenges focusing on their own assignments, and a lot of times checks in, "Do you need help? What should I do next?" And if the teacher declines that helper,

or redirects them to their own work, they become, the student becomes anxious, sometimes disappointed. They, yeah, let's say the parents describe the child as very responsible, but they're really not doing that well on their own. What do you think is really going on here?

Hmm, that's a very interesting question. Could be, you know, a number of things. Sounds like a kid who really wants to be recognized and praised for being a responsible, helpful kid. I'd be interested in knowing how he, uh, it's a he, right?

Doesn't say.

Oh, it doesn't say, okay. Uh, then they, um, how they function at home. Um, are they given a lot of responsibility? Are they afraid of their parents? That if they don't do what they're supposed to do, they're going to get criticized? Um, it could be that he or she, you know, inside just wants to be a really helpful person. Um, you know, there are people like that, you know? In fact, when I was a little kid, I tried to help people too, but not, not to that degree.

It could also be a way, particularly for school assignments, to avoid having to do what he or she thinks is a very difficult task.

And I I wouldn't doubt that frankly, that um he or she consciously or or semi-consciously, oh, I'm gonna go help the teacher, so maybe so the teacher will help me um figure this out, or that I can avoid um the frustration or the anxiety of having to do work that I I can't do very well, so to uh way to avoid.

I think the the challenge for the teacher is how to deal with this, uh you know, if the kid's annoying. And and you know, for fourth graders, you can talk fairly adultly to the um to the kid.

You know, the teacher, I think, should be appreciative, but also say, I'm really concerned that you might be having trouble with your own work. So what can I do to help you understand what to do? You're welcome to help me, but after you've done your own work.

You know, um and maybe we could set up some uh, you know, I really appreciate when you hand out papers to kids and, you know, and often teachers will have a list of uh classroom chores that are assigned randomly to students and then shifted. The the kid who um answers the phone, the kid who uh um hands out papers, the kids who go to the office to get a supply. You know, there are a lot of uh. Particularly at that age, you know, a lot of little classroom duties that are

assigned to kids, which are helpful to everybody, including the teacher. So maybe the teacher could assign this child, maybe even talk to the child. Here are three tasks that I really need help with, and I would appreciate that. Again, after you've completed your work, you can do this. Or, you know, while nobody has an assignment, like at the beginning of the day, you could do it. But pick one or two that you'd really like to do, and that will be your assignment.

I love what you said about the role at home. Because maybe, let's say, let's say there's a smaller sibling, or let's say there's a grandparent who has some health issues, and now this child, the fourth grader, has been thrown into that, and they need to help out. You know, all hands on deck at home. We don't know the situation.

Right.

Maybe that is, I didn't even think of that, which this could be fueling their performance in the classroom. They think that that's, maybe that's their identity. They think that that's the way it's supposed to be, all the time.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It would be interesting to hear from the parents, yes, because they certainly could be like the pseudo mom or dad who takes care of younger siblings, and maybe they get rewards for it, or are praised, and they want to do that. But like I said earlier, maybe that's just a kid who, you know, has a big heart and wants to help. But my guess is that it's avoidance.

Yes.

That, you know, if he or she hadn't had some difficulties with their work, you know, I could see a really excellent student knocking off their work pretty quickly, and then, again, offering to help the teacher or other kids. Like when I was in first grade, I could read already, and I would offer to help other kids who were learning to read. So, but it wasn't a way to avoid, it was probably a way to avoid boredom, but, you know, it wasn't a way to avoid hard work.

What about?

So that's an interesting question. Yeah.

Like you mentioned avoidance. So what's what's coming up in my mind here is could it be that this student is trying to be perfect? So perfectionism is at play here and that's basically masking a fear of failure. And I say that because the student is avoiding their own work. They're not really doing well at that. But hey, they'll step up and help everybody else out, including the teacher in the classroom. Could that be one of the things that is really going on here?

Sure. If the kid is a perfectionist, well, my guess is if they're a perfectionist, they would try to do their work the very best that they could.

Right.

So my guess is it's more avoidance than trying to be perfect. Although, you know, when, you know, avoidance can be a one action to, you know, deal with perfectionism. Well, I'm just not going to do that. You know, so kids won't start doing things that are new and challenging if they think they're not going to be best at it. It might be starting a new sport or learning a musical instrument or, you know, something like that. Some skill that if

they feel that they have to be perfect at it, they won't try something new. So it's like not getting out of the comfort zone. But the kid in fourth grade is used to school and what the requirements are. So my guess is that it's really avoidance rather than not being perfect. But I think it's a it's an interesting thing to think about.

What about their identity? You know, are they potentially finding their identity around the the approval or the some kind of validation of being, you know, the helper? I don't want to say the teacher's pet. That's a term that's been used a lot. Maybe it applies.

Yeah, but that that could be part of it, too. Yeah, I think this child has defined him or herself as a helping person. And

You know, whether it's to avoid difficult tasks, but you know, there are many kids who avoid difficult tasks by being the class clown, um, by making, uh, um, disturbing the class by bad behavior. Um, so then this is certainly, I would say, a rather unique, um, way to address, uh, difficulty and anxiety about work. Cause usually it's, it's much more blatant avoidance and, you know, talking to other kids, bothering other kids, acting silly, um, you know, being a, uh, um, a nuisance for the teacher, you know, and a difficult,

difficult to manage. So I think, uh, this child picking this way to, um, avoid, if that's the main reason, um, I think it's, it's very positive. And I think, um, the teacher and the parents could or should really continue to, um, direct this child to be a helping person. Um, you know, when, when he or she's a little bit older, go to a food bank and help people, you know, who need that kind of help. Um, you know, be a babysitter,

um, you know, help out neighbors, um, to mow the lawn or, you know, something like that. So there's so many ways that people can be helpful. Um, and it's really important for parents and teachers to acknowledge that and encourage it. But in this case, it should be after the child has gotten the help that he or she needs to do the work that they're having trouble with.

I love what you said there, to refocus their energy to helping others. Like you could go to an animal shelter and.

Yeah.

Wow. Love it. Uh, all right.

You know, or clean up the beach or you're, clean up the park. You know, there's plenty of things that a nine or 10 year old can do, um, that helps the community.

And if that's the child's real identity.

Aha, and you can find those things that resonate for them, whether they love nature, whether they love animals, seniors, let's say, you know, grandma passed away years ago, and you help at a senior home, or something like that.

Oh, yeah.

The world is wide open there.

I've known kids that have done that.

Hmm, yeah. Uh, love it. All right, gonna go to emails now, instant feedback, steve at gmail dot com. Lot of them from people interested in your career path. And I love this one from Jessica from Austin. She says, "Thank you for your discussion. I'm considering becoming a school psychologist, but I'd love to know, what was a moment early in your career that made you question if you chose the right path?" And she goes on to say, "And what ultimately kept you in it?"

Huh. Um, very good question, but I don't think I ever had a doubt that I had made the right decision.

Okay, as I've said before, you know, I had a background in math and statistics, and joined the Army Reserve and was trained as a psychology social work specialist, but I hadn't had psych courses as an undergraduate. So I went back to UC Berkeley, University of California Berkeley, to take psychology. And it was just so different than, I mean, I still love math, but you know, just the interaction with other students, the learning all about child development.

And then my school psychology field work and internship. It was just so uplifting and engaging.

Even with the students, because when I was in my statistics program, was almost no interaction with the other students. And the complete opposite in school psychology, because we were all learning. We were all, you know, learning how to be... Consultants and we were consultants with each other. It was in classes, we would share our own experiences, whether it had to do with the field work or just our own personal experiences. I remember back then, I wasn't embarrassed about hiding what I, my, my life experiences as a young person.

And so I, I'm trying to remember, you know, based on this question, if I ever really doubted what I, that choice. And I can't remember thinking like, ah, I don't really want to do this. Now, that's not saying that the job can't be challenging. Sure. Um, I'm probably early on in the career, even later in the career. I would say to myself, wow, this is really a difficult situation. I'm not sure how to handle it. Um, but then, as I've said before, working in a, a, a system, you have other people to consult with.

You have, um, other psychologists, if not in your district. Um, we, in Marin County, we used to have monthly meetings, um, with all the psychologists. I was the only one in the district for a long time. And, uh, people would bring up their, um, issues and we would have discussions about them. And you didn't need to necessarily wait till that meeting. You know, you would form relationships with, um, other psychologists and you could call them. And, um, there'd be outside psychologists and psychiatrists that you could consult. So I won't say that I never thought, wow, this is really hard. I'm not sure what to do.

Uh, but that did not make me question my, uh, my career choice.

I'm gonna jump and thank you.

I don't know if that helps.

No, it really does.

But.

We have another question that's kind of in the same wheelhouse. This is Chris from Boulder, Colorado, and basically says, I'm gonna paraphrase this, but they're thinking about making a career change. And the question here is, what parts of your job took the longest to feel confident in? And were there still areas later in your career where you felt like you were still figuring it out as you went along? Kind of deep. So, you know, what took the longest to feel confident?

That's a great question. I think, um, one of the things that I felt less confident was the whole physiology of, uh, of cognition and particularly the, the, so how the brain works. Cause I didn't have, um, education in, in, uh, brain physiology in graduate school. So I had to learn that, you know, what, what are the parts of the brain that do this and that? And, you know, I'm still not all that adept at it. Um, and then the whole medical piece.

Hmm.

What, uh, what medicines are appropriate for depression, for anxiety, for, um, ADHD? ADHD I pretty well learned, cause you know, that, that, there were finite numbers of medications, but you know, that, that was, uh, you know, and I, I wasn't the medical doctor, so I didn't have to do that, but I had to talk to parents about all these different medications. So I had to learn that along the way. Um, I think, you know, children can present unique problems sometimes, you know? I think, um, learning how to handle depression.

Was a tough one. That took me a while.

I don't know that I ever learned exactly how to deal with lack of motivation. I thought that was one of the most challenging things when a kid just wasn't motivated for school, or wasn't motivated socially, or wasn't motivated for extracurricular activities, you know, and it had to be depression running that or anxiety, but the anxiety didn't necessarily appear. But so I think that's one thing wonderful about the job is that it's never boring and there's always going to present a new issue.

Another one that I didn't have to deal with for a while was autism. I think my first autistic student was in the 90s when I'd already been working for almost 20 years. So I had to learn all about that.

You know, autism and Asperger's syndrome and so on. And then dealing with transgender children. That didn't really appear till the last 10 years, although there was one student that I dealt with back in the 90s who

ended up being a transgender, but there wasn't much of

you know, sort of experience there. So I think, you know, and then there's

situations that children are born with, you know. Their parents were alcoholic or a drug addict. And, you know, so there's always something new. And I think what's important is not to expect that you're going to know how to do everything easily. And that's, that I think is one of the

Best aspects of the job because you're always learning. You know, there's plenty of research that you can uh um look up and uh there are other people that you can talk to. So I think it's uh I I don't think this young person needs to worry about um not knowing everything right off the bat. I used to say to my interns, it took me 25 years to really feel like I knew what I was doing. I don't know if that was totally true, but I knew what I was doing for a lot of things, but there were other things that other situations that would come up and I'd feel like I'm not sure how to handle this.

Well, yeah.

But there's nothing wrong, bad about that.

Such Alan, such an interesting point uh uh within that last question of things you figured out later along the way. When it comes to meds, things are changing with that all the time. There are different meds, there's different

Oh, yeah.

indications, uh different ways they are or could be prescribed. So that's going to be an ongoing learning experience.

Oh, yeah.

It's ever changing.

Like it. Yeah, for sure.

Even to the day, you know, there's within the last couple of years, there's genetic testing that can be done for $300. Unfortunately, most of it's out of pocket, but it can actually tell you what meds are right for that person, be an adult or a child. And and I've seen them, people I've spoken with, spot on accuracy in terms of if somebody's had a challenge with with with certain meds, it would show up in the red column. If it was kind of not really sure, yellow, then it would be the green. So every it's ever changing. Lily checks in from Clearwater, Florida. She says, I'm drawn to this field because I want to help children.

For people like me, do you think we might be underestimating about the complexity of the work?

Um, could be, you know, she's not specifying what she does understand about the job, but it is a very complex job.

Hmm.

And it's not just like teaching. You need to understand law, special education law. Um, you need to understand organizational, uh, construction and, you know, all the different, um, parts of an organization, the administration, the bureaucracy, the teachers, the curriculum. You need to understand academic, uh, learning. Um, you need to understand emotional learning. Um, you need to understand, because, um, there are 13, uh, categories of special education.

Um, learning disabilities, uh, um, other health impairment, speech and language disabilities, emotional disabilities, uh, vision, hearing, um, brain, uh, you know, like accidental brain, um, trauma, things like that. So there's, you know, and some of the, and again, you don't know who, oh, and autism. Um, you don't know who you're gonna be, um, having to deal with. And as a school psychologist, it's your responsibility to deal with all of those, uh, um, difficulties, even if you don't assess all of them,

but you need to, you know, work with somebody like a speech therapist or somebody who, um, is doing vision care and so on. Um, so it's, I, I would want this person to understand, yes, it's a very complex, um...

Job and that that's just the assessment part of it. Then there's the counseling part of it. Um, and the working with parents and working with administrators and the consultation part of it. So there's uh, it's not an easy job. That's for sure.

Hmm.

Not that, not that teachers have an easy job either. Um, but you know, so they have to understand the curriculum. They have to understand management. I've, I, I've said, you know, teachers nowadays have many more roles than with kids than they did when I was a kid. You know, when I was a kid, all the teachers had to do was stand up in front of the class and teach us information and grade papers. Um, now teachers really have to be, uh, they have to be parental. They have to be counselors. They have to be educators. So, uh, you know, education is not easy for anybody, but I think for a school psychologist,

it's, uh, it's very complex. And I don't want to discourage this person from doing it, but you know, the, the positive side of that is it's never ever boring.

Hmm. I, I want to ask my own personal question here. How were you able to not let it affect you? There's so many deep things going on with children, challenges at home, potentially some sad stuff. How did you, I don't want to say deflect it, but how did you not take it home? I gotta believe you're, you're an empath as well where you're feeling what that student is going through as you try to help them or do help move them, them forward. But how did it not affect you? I mean, this is an everyday thing here.

Yeah. Um, I think it probably did more early on. Um, and it, and wasn't that I wasn't affected. I mean, I could still cry later in the, um, you know, if I was really touched by somebody. Um, But I learned to kind of compartmentalize my daily experiences. Um, you know, if I would come home and talk about them, but you know, you're not supposed to, but you know, not mentioning men names or anything, or a situation happened, I could talk about it.

And then I I had therapy the whole time um that I um was working. So I had a therapist to deal with uh my own feelings with.

Hmm.

And and that helped. Um, so, but I would also think about the good things that would happen during the day. You know, this felt, oh, I felt like we made some progress today, or this was fun. Um, you know, something like that. I but then sometimes, you know, a kid would be really a mess. Um, couldn't use that, you know, slang term, but you know, really, really struggling. And uh and then I would feel, I I would feel it, but I didn't let it tear me apart, I guess. Um, though, you know, some days would be, you know, more stressful than others.

And I would try to, you know, deal with, like, like my art class on Tuesdays, you know, I could um focus on the other side of my brain that wasn't worried about uh um.

Well, wait, hold on one sec there. Art class, you never, I don't recall you mentioning that. Was that a class that you taught or you took?

Oh, I took. I never mentioned my art class.

Oh.

Oh, oh, well, I'll tell you this story.

Sure.

So um my mother was an artist and um she was born in nineteen oh three. And when she was in her twenties, she would go on cruises to the South Pacific and do pen and ink, really lovely pen and ink sketches.

Wow.

But when I was uh, when she married and when I was born in nineteen forty six, she um stopped doing art. She took a. Few classes at a local museum when she was in her sixties or seventies. So I used to like to draw when I was in elementary school and had to for my science teacher particularly. And when I was in my, but I was a perfectionist, talking about perfectionism. And you know, if I couldn't be Monet or Picasso, I didn't want to do it and I didn't want to get a grade in in art. Uh, but when I was in my third year of graduate school in nineteen seventy six, that was a big year for me.

Um, I thought at Berkeley, there was this uh monthly newsletter that advertised private classes. Um, a whole range of classes and I found one uh that this art teacher was giving at her home. Um, once a week, two hours and for six sessions, it was twenty five dollars. Which I guess was sort of reasonable then. So I started uh back in July of seventy six. And I'm still going every week.

Oh, my gosh.

Unless I have a play or something. My art teacher now is ninety six and a half years old. She's a wonderful role model for aging. She's still with it and so I've I've done a lot of uh paintings and drawings and and I I love doing it.

My gosh.

And it was great for when I was working because it would really get me to focus away from the kids and the activity.

It was, it sounds like it was your escape.

It was a wonderful escape, but I still love it and uh.

Wow.

I'll show you. We just had a, we just had a uh, an art show at her house uh in March. Um, six of, all six of us students, they're, they're all older people, actually. Five women and me and uh.

But there we did an exhibition of our drawings. I didn't want to sell any because the ones I chose to show are all on my wall at home, but none in this room, actually. But sometime I could actually show you because I have pictures on my phone.

I can really relate to this. I have to tell you, when you said pen and ink, I lived my life as a child with pen and ink because I wanted to be a syndicated cartoonist. And when I turned when I turned 22, I came that close, but I was already doing radio for years, even at 22. I started when I was 17. And I kind of abandoned it. But then the perfectionism thing that you mentioned, same situation. And I must have taken down like a thousand trees because I would draw it. It doesn't look good. Crumple it up, throw it back. And I would draw on a certain board because that's what cartoonists did. So it was kind of pricey, you know, for a kid to buy this stuff. And I wasted so

much paper. And if you saw each one that I threw out, you'd say, that looks just like the one you just did that you threw out. Like, what do you do? Because I was writing the perfectionism train. But I have to tell you, Alan, and maybe that maybe this was true for you. I only realized about a year ago, that drawing was my therapy as a child. That was my escape. That's what was going on. I didn't even realize it then. It's just recently that I was in therapy in the basement, drawing. It was my place. It was my thing. It was my, you know.

Here, I'll show you some of my paintings that I

Oh, wow.

I don't know if you can see them.

I can actually see them on the phone. Amazing. Oh, my gosh. What's your favorite medium?

Oil.

Wow, look at you. Oof. I never I never graduated to oil. I could just it scared me. It was, you know, watercolor, then acrylics, of course, pen and ink and all of that. Oh, I'm amazed you're still doing it.

I've done watercolor. And I also like to draw with colored pencils. But those are, you know, you can make a correction. The difficulty with watercolor is it's really hard to make a correction once it's there. But with oil paint, you can paint over it and, you know, make the correction. So

Wow.

Lot of fun.

You inspired me because inside of me, it's been screaming, get back into it. Take the time and do it. And I, I don't have time, I don't have the time, but I don't look at it as a therapeutic thing to do. I look more of it as like a hobby, but no, there's more going on there. Couple of minutes left. Golden Tools from Dr. Allen Gold. What do you have here that parents can use as a tool to make, make things better, better communication, whatever it might be with their kids?

I remember looking at Common Sense Media. It's still an organization. I think it's been around for maybe 15 years. Parents can Google it and what it does is really help

parents monitor and regulate their kids' exposure and use of electronics.

You know, I, I would suggest Googling that, Common Sense Media, because it has a lot of suggestions about how parents can do that. Because now with kids so hooked on and addicted to electronics, whether it's their phone or their iPad or their computer, it's one of the most challenging jobs for parents to know what their kids are doing. And we've talked before about how problematic social media is for kids. And kids are smart.

They can avoid most ways that parents, you know, will try to monitor them. You know, they're very clever and same, same for teachers. So I would suggest looking, if they haven't already, if they look at that website and see if there are some suggestions that...

They can use to um either to evaluate whether their kids are um really addicted to um electronics, or if not, just to make sure that they're um looking at appropriate stuff, or to find ways of regulating how much time they spend on it, and so on. So uh, that that's one recommendation I have.

Love it. And it's so important, and every day that goes on, even more important. Uh, just take a look at, you know, some some kids, maybe your own, I dealt with it too, where you shut it down. No, you're not, you're not going on, you know, tonight, you're not playing games, uh, you know, on your computer tonight. Freak mode. Like, it's

Yeah.

a true addiction. And all of the filters, all of the apps, everything you put on their phones, their devices, they're crafty, they're clever, they'll find a way around it. I have a friend who, high level at IBM, and this is, this is a few years ago, but I asked him, like, what, his name's Mike, Mike, what, what do you do for your kids? Like, I've tried all these apps, either they don't work, or they they don't work for Apple devices, maybe Android, all of that. What do you, what do you do with your kids? Like, how do you stop them from going on uh, certain websites, etc.? He said, you can't. And this is come coming from a tech, a high level. He goes,

Yeah.

I I just talk to my kids. He goes, there's nothing you can do. And there you go.

Yeah, yeah.

You know?

But there may be some uh, information, and I, I'm sure people can ask questions of common sense media.

Sure.

Um, if they, you know, I don't know that they have answers to everything, but uh, it would be worthwhile looking at.

A hundred percent. And maybe things have changed in the last few years, but I encountered that, you know, call it five years ago, of buying different apps and and putting them on and dealing with their tech support. Um, there was issues and ultimately, you know, kids can figure it out. They can go into the settings on their phone and uh, you know, because they want it that bad, you know, to be online and and all of that. Uh, good stuff today. Thank you for

Everything, but also sharing your journey and your transparency with all of us. And if anybody's got any questions, whether you're having challenges with your children, maybe this is a career path, your comments in general, you can always reach us, [email protected]. Thank you again, Alan. I had no idea you're an artist.

Yep.

Amazing. And you're still doing it. I find that off the scale amazing that you saw the value in continue doing it. That's great.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's one. I'll show you my latest painting that I'm working on.

Sure.

I like doing landscapes and things like that.

I always did too.

So, wait a second.

I'm thinking next time, bring them to the table, literally to the table.

It's a castle in France.

Wow. Amazing.

So, not finished yet. That's about six or seven weeks into it.

Nice. Wow. I love the perspective, kind of looking up the road to it.

Yeah.

It's kind of cool that we can see that clearly. Yeah. I had to hold that up there.

Thank you.

Very much so. Thank you again for today. We'll talk soon, okay?

Broadcasting from the business capital of the world, this is the Podcast Business News Network.

Of course my kid's in the right car seat. Well, I think he is.

Yeah, my kid's in a booster seat. He was ready to move up. He is ready, right?

Her car seat looks like the right size. There are probably rules on when to move up to a booster seat, aren't there?

Rear-facing, forward-facing? I think I have it right.

Car crashes are a leading killer of children 1 to 13. Are your children in the right car seat for their age and size? Don't think you know. Know you know. Go to safercar.gov/the-right-seat.

I know my child's in the right car seat.

Or else I wouldn't get in the driver's seat.

Brought to you by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and the Ad Council.