Building Success Without Losing Yourself

In today’s episode, I talk with entrepreneur and speaker Stephen Scoggins about building a successful business without losing yourself or neglecting the people you love. Stephen shares how his lion and lamb philosophy brings courage and compassion together, and why financial freedom alone left him feeling empty. We discuss being present with family, releasing control as a mentor, and learning from others before repeating their mistakes. Throughout the evening, the conversations return to recognizing destructive patterns, choosing opportunities that align with your values, and using business to serve others. Success becomes more meaningful when your growth supports your relationships, your purpose, and your peace. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  All right, Steve.

• 0:02Speaker 00

  You have quite a background. And this concept of lamb and lion, we've discussed in detail. Give me an idea how you found out or came up with the philosophy. And this whole idea of how you help people by figuring out lion and lamb tendencies or balances, I guess.

• 0:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, so the easiest way to articulate this is inside of each and one of us, we have both lion energy and lamb energy. For some of us, we can be over aggressive in the workplace, relationships, etc. We want what we want. We have control. We come with that dynamic. On the other side of us, some of us are people pleasers. We want to help people. We self abandon and we over function and we like, we just want everybody to be so okay, so much, so all the time. That we'll never speak our truth, we'll never speak our mind, we'll never be honest. And neither one of those unfortunately lead us to healthy solutions. So when I first started building my company, the first company I had, when I exited, it took me 25 years to build, so don't let the numbers fool you because it was freaking hard. Trash piles, construction site over 25 years.

• 1:10Speaker 01

  When I exited nine, nearly nine figures of annual revenue, 400 team members across three states. High school diploma, didn't have one. So I learned a lot of quote unquote on the job training. Including what it meant to be in what I call mature versus immature. So we have in the archetypes that I share about. That it's funny, I was actually working with a couple last night, building a PR company and the one of the co founders were like, I'm way too much lion or lamb. And then we got to unpack that for about 10 or 15 minutes. She immediately took action today and did some key moments and things in her business that she never had the courage to do before. So it really doesn't take much to unlock your human soul. But in the grand scheme of things, if you think about an immature lion, they're controlling, egotistical, dominant.

• 1:56Speaker 01

  In the grand scheme of things, it's, it's all about control based on insecurity and fear. An immature lamb, on the other hand, is somehow lost their voice. They haven't many times when, when I work into one of the people, there's people pleasing in that mode. What that inevitably what happened in their earlier upbringing is, is they were never, they never felt safe to speak up. Okay, so they had a issue with the family, maybe a too much lion, too much lion will end up creating a too little lamb. If that makes any sense. So long story short, as I'm building a company for 25 plus years. And then for the first 10 years of my journey, if I'm honest with you guys, I was a terrible leader. I was all hustle and grit, didn't know what I was doing. We were doing, I think, 35 million in revenue. So on paper, I looked like I was smart and had it all figured out.

• 2:41Speaker 01

  Meanwhile, I was at home crying myself to sleep because I didn't know, I haven't any idea what I was doing.

• 2:46Speaker 01

  That turned into a bit of a dichotomy because then I swung too far to the other side. If you think about it briefly, like a bit of a pendulum. Right? You got too much, you got lion on one side, lamb on the other side.

• 2:57Speaker 01

  I then swung too far to the, to the other side. So then I became way too much lamb. So then my executive team, so much lamb that I said, whatever you guys want, we should do all the way until they sold 1.7 million dollars. I abdicated my assignment. So I was like, well, being too much lamb isn't one thing, being too much lion isn't one thing. So what is the truth at?

• 3:16Speaker 01

  And then believe it or not, you would think that most of my suffering and things that I went through were due to the homelessness that I faced when I first started the company. It was actually on the other side of that after I sold the company. And David knows this because we have a lot of mutual friends and I'm happy to honor to call David a friend and brother. Really? But one of the interesting things that happened was is that here I am sitting on top of this mountain house in Utah, Lehigh Kingdom View. I'd moved from Raleigh, North Carolina, which is where I grew up. Exited the company, moved there for a year and a half, and I had little, could see the city. So at Christmas, I could see all the Christmas trees in seven different cities. On 4th of July, I could watch seven different 4th of July shows.

• 3:53Speaker 01

  Yeah? And then from there, I was like, okay, well, I got the relationships. I got the finance. I got, I got the financial freedom. I got the traveling. Why the hell do I feel empty?

• 4:04Speaker 01

  So one of the things that happens a lot of times with these different folks that I've worked with at times past is we very quickly uncover the very same work that I uncovered, and which is where the integrated alignment method was born. Which is helping you identify what actually gives you real meaning with real authenticity. So in the grand scheme of things, a mature lion is bold and courageous and protective. A mature lamb is going to be somebody who empathizes, who has connectivity and expresses compassion. Right? So the secret is becoming one part lion and one part lamb helps you avoid scaling dysfunction, both in yourself and your organizations. But it also teaches you the truth of wholeness and authenticity.

• 4:43Speaker 00

  So big round of applause.

• 4:49Speaker 00

  You know, every entrepreneur is successful as they may or may not be. Reaches a point where they realize for the sake of what? And I coach so many different people that come to the point that they have everything they ever dreamed of and they've never been more empty. And it costs them because they're in search of balance, not harmony. Their family. You know, I talk about discipline compared to devotion. I coach people that are so disciplined in their work, the activity they get paid for. But they forget to make money. They forget to take care of their family. And they don't care, take care of their health. They're very disciplined. They outwork everybody. You know, the people.

• 5:32Speaker 00

  But yet they have no devotion, which is aligning your discipline with this divine direction. You and I both are faith based entrepreneurs. Unabashedly, without any shame, believing in something bigger than us that loves us more than our mom. It's a pretty simple philosophy. You assign names, characters, whatever beliefs you want to it. But it comes down to if you have faith, you can persevere through and see the devotion compared to the discipline. When you were super successful, what did it cost you before you understood the assignment of time and the part lamb, part lion, lion philosophy?

• 6:14Speaker 01

  Can I be honest with you guys? Is that okay with you guys?

• 6:16Speaker 00

  Try something new.

• 6:18Speaker 01

  Can we have real talk? It cost me my family.

• 6:27Speaker 01

  All right, brother.

• 6:29Speaker 01

  Top of that house in Utah.

• 6:32Speaker 01

  Everything that I strive for to produce worth. Right? If I get this, if I do that, if I, if I have the shoes, I have the things, I have the toys, I could travel, I can do all the things. That somehow the world will find somehow figure out I'm worthy when they should pay attention. And that pursuit cost me a marriage.

• 6:54Speaker 01

  My oldest son came to me at the end of the marriage and he said, there's, he goes, you're as far as I'm concerned, you're a great dad. Great husband, but if there's one thing you could do different, just one thing.

• 7:06Speaker 01

  If you could just be more present when you're present, that would mean the world to us.

• 7:11Speaker 01

  I had two different epiphanies in that moment. The first epiphany was this rolodex of moments.

• 7:17Speaker 01

  Right? Where I'm on a computer, I'm on a telephone, I'm dealing with a hot call because the customer calls me 30 minutes before bedtime or before dinner or at a football game or any kind of number of things. And my kid comes to me wanting just to lock eyes with me. And I turn right around and say, just, just a minute, just, just give me a minute. Just give me, just one minute. That minute would turn into 10, which would turn into an hour, which would turn into 30 minutes and so on and so forth. And so what I realized is, and we're doing this subconscious, so we don't know we're doing it. We take the very thing that we say we're building it all for in the first place, and then we tell that thing that it matters less than the thing we're focused on.

• 7:57Speaker 01

  Which leaves a gaping hole in our soul, which doesn't allow us to have wholeness, which doesn't allow us to have a commitment, doesn't allow us to find truth, doesn't allow us to find authenticity. And yet we strive to do it again, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. Oh crap, it's Saturday. Oh, there's another hot phone call. Let me do it again. And we're lost.

• 8:15Speaker 01

  The second thing that I learned in that, that season specifically. Outside of that relationship with my son was I was lying to myself.

• 8:28Speaker 01

  I was telling myself I was doing it for them. And I was doing it for me.

• 8:34Speaker 01

  Once you understand that concept, you can begin to move the needle and shift it. It's when ironically, it was after that transformation that the opportunities to work with celebrities and entertainers and athletes and high class or high profile CEOs and began to show itself. And when the work was born, it was because of pain and discomfort. I'm a stubborn child. I learned through pain. So hopefully I knew more. We'll see.

• 8:56Speaker 00

  Thank you for being vulnerable. It's amazing.

• 9:02Speaker 00

  When you change or shift your perspective from I'll be happy when to for the sake of what? Those are the transformations that both you and I work with people on. But there's another side to helping people. And one of the difficulties I have with as many people as I try to help is that you sometimes, a lot of the times, want it more for them than they want it for themselves.

• 9:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:30Speaker 00

  And any of you that want to be coached, teacher, mentor, or parent have experienced the feeling that I want this more for this person I love than they want it for themselves. And as Napoleon Hill says, you need a definiteness of purpose. This divine direction is the two percenters in the world that understand their definiteness of purpose. Have you experienced that situation? And if so, have you been able to empower people to get them to have a definiteness of purpose to actually want it? Because for me, the common denominator of all successful people is a desire that they must be what they can be.

• 10:12Speaker 00

  Any billionaires, millionaires, entrepreneurs, celebrities, athletes, entertainers, the best in the world who I'm blessed to be around, that's the only common denominator they have. You ask him whether they're in any point of their career, ask Michael Jordan right now, whatever he's working on, he's like Kobe Bryant. He has a desire that he must be what he can be and has nothing to do with basketball.

• 10:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, so the short answer is yes, many times. The longer answer is I was that person to the guy that gave me a second chance I didn't deserve. A guy put me in business for myself before I started the company from trash piles and so on and so forth. Bobbed me everything, put me in business for myself, did all the things. I got very cocky, very arrogant, very quickly. My character was not ready for what I was called to carry. And as a result, I got to go back to the starting line, led me to the homelessness, so on and so forth. And then from there, I got a second chance to believe that from him. So it already shows that he believed in me more than I believe myself. And I'm sure that was very painful for him because he invested a lot of time, energy, and talent in me and got nothing for it.

• 11:19Speaker 01

  He passed away in 2003, old man Myrick, Steve Myrick, and never got to see all the things. He never got to see the company scale. You know, part of me believes he's here with us now, right now somehow, so he's proud.

• 11:35Speaker 01

  That gives you something really important, which is the release of control and the presence of empathy.

• 11:40Speaker 00

  Repeat that.

• 11:42Speaker 01

  It's the release of control and the presence of empathy. You can see someone's journey so far ahead of themselves that you feel the need to push them towards that goal. And then when you feel the need to push them towards that goal, you actually disrupt the divine from doing the work that has to happen to get them to the destination on time. You see what I'm saying? So I learned through the process of pain, of pressure, fragmentation, if you will, that it's better to let someone on their own journey. I mentor you, we talked about this on the airplane today. We both teach and mentor for free. Lots of people that have been very successful as a result of nuggets and wisdom and different things that aren't paying for it. I don't do it for the money. I do it because I, I'm like, I see you. And really what I'm saying is I don't see you, I see me.

• 12:28Speaker 01

  I see my old me. I see the greatest purpose in life you'll ever have is serving the person you used to be, so much so, there's a young man in this room right now, Connor Kraft.

• 12:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:42Speaker 01

  So Connor's been with me around about 10 years. He's the, he's with my daughter, has been for, I don't know, probably six or seven years. That was the whole journey. Father of three of my grandkids, but one of the things I love most about Connor is his relentlessness. I think Forrest said this in Vegas, which, yeah, which is, sometimes there's assholes, right? Just ask questions nonstop, don't take any action. Connor was one of those people that, if I'm being honest, Connor, I'm not going to share too much out of school. Asked a lot of questions, took him a while to take action on that. Since he's done that, his company has been growing very successfully for a while, which I'm very excited about. The most touching moment that ever happened to me was we were at a media event. Wasn't with, it wasn't in Vegas or New York. It was one that we were doing with Rory, I think it was.

• 13:27Speaker 01

  Off to the side, a media, a media person was asking Connor.

• 13:35Speaker 00

  Come on.

• 13:37Speaker 01

  He asked Connor, he said, uh, he said, Connor, he goes, you know, what do you, like, what do you, what do you, why do you follow this guy? Why do you like, keep like?

• 13:47Speaker 01

  And he said, that's my old man Myrick.

• 13:53Speaker 01

  I say that to say that sometimes you feel like the business is the thing, but the business is really a conduit to do the thing that you're supposed to do, to create the thing, to touch the life you're supposed to take. And then you touch the life you're supposed to take, touch, and then that life becomes a blessing and a thing. And therefore you create a legacy that outlives you inside of someone else, outside of all the trappings and the things that we think are fancy.

• 14:12Speaker 00

  That's here for them.

• 14:15Speaker 00

  So good.

• 14:20Speaker 02

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• 14:48Speaker 00

  All right.

• 14:51Speaker 00

  We have time for someone Q and A. Yeah, let's take some, yeah, but from a talented person. Anybody have a question for our boy here over here? Yeah. Want to give him a mic or?

• 15:03Speaker 03

  I've been, I've been through, you know, some major stuff.

• 15:07Speaker 00

  Just come up here.

• 15:10Speaker 00

  I've been through some major stuff and David, thank you again for including me on this.

• 15:16Speaker 00

  David is the most authentic person I've ever met. I was fortunate enough to meet him through a friend and then he invited me to a public gathering where he just inspired everyone. And I have never been to one of those immediately. I'm like, oh yeah, let me go see what it was. And it was the most authentic thing that I've ever seen and really changed people's lives. And I've sent people to David where he's literally transformed their lives. And I don't mean to make this, you know, a commercial here, but do you feel like people need to go through something life-changing or? Listen, my life had always been like this and then my daughter got sick and then all

• 15:57Speaker 00

  of a sudden, you know, things started making sense, why things happen and why I'm meeting people and then I lost my mom. And I meet so many people through that, those, and I just feel like I'm open to it. So I really appreciate that you guys are so willing to like mentor and speak to people. But I feel like people have to go through a certain something.

• 16:20Speaker 00

  So I appreciate you guys pointing it out to people. But anyhow.

• 16:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:27Speaker 01

  So the short answer is yes, and.

• 16:33Speaker 01

  Yes, there are certain situations that teach us how to deal with pressure, how to deal with ourselves. I'm a big believer that when something surfaces like identity or worth or insecurity or fear or scarcity. I'm a big believer that when that surfaces, that's the element in the time to really go hard and do that, which I didn't do for 48 years. So I'm 50 years old, if I'm being honest with you guys. The last two years, I've been living in a steady state of transcendence and transformation after not recognizing that, when to look at the patterns that I personally had, right? You specifically affected my personal relationships more than business.

• 17:17Speaker 01

  So the yes is there are things that we have to go through. The and is we still get a choice.

• 17:23Speaker 01

  That choice is how we choose to learn. So there are really only two ways to learn any endeavor concept. I can learn from my friend David here, who almost lost his family, lost $100 billion and built his way back up and say, David, what did you do? How did you do it? Where'd you come from? How did you fight through it? What did you face in yourself? How was your heart like? How did you protect that thing in your chest and still make it back?

• 17:50Speaker 01

  Or I can lose a hundred billion dollars on my own and have to go through that journey on my own. That part's a choice. Mine hidden.

• 17:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, just to add to that, because we were speaking about this on the plane as well. I think you have to realize that regardless of who you are, your thoughts about what's happening gives you a perception of what's happening. Perception gives you a meaning. Meaning creates intention, which then results in behaviors. And those behaviors create your results. It's a formula that I teach and that works. The thing that we have to realize is I know people, including myself, that have been through some big problems. And it's, oh, you have to bottom out, you know, screw up everything in order to get to where you want to be.

• 18:37Speaker 00

  The problem that I see is that whether you have this tragic thing happen, everybody does. It's just some people, because of the ease that they're born into. It could be losing their watch. I've seen people react to losing something worse than I did when I had to tell my mom I was bankrupt and lost her home. And that's a basement that has a basement. But so realize that when we talk about, do you have to hit rock bottom? That's not the question I think we should be asking. It's where's your basement?

• 19:12Speaker 00

  Where's your basement? Because if we can create a basement that's higher, then we can move a delta with desire to our potential, our higher self. And so the people that I coach, I want to find out where their basement is. And then build the desire to put the delta, the difference in their life to reach their potential. And according to subject matter, topic or expertise as well. So working with people to clear their vision and say, what are we actually talking about? So for example, in football, my basement was so low that being a below average college football player was probably as close to my potential as I've ever come with anything. I've never worked as consistently, wanted something so bad.

• 19:56Speaker 00

  And I just picked something that I had a low basement. If I would have done the same thing in physics at five years old that I did in football, because my physics basement is really high, who knows what I could have created and done with that type of knowledge, knowing what I know today. So I think it's a really important thing. I think everybody has to rock, hit rock bottom, but find out where your rock bottom is and try to raise that every day so that you have a higher delta, a desire will get you there. So time for one more question? Okay, one right behind you. So here.

• 20:34Speaker 01

  Oh, thanks, Dave. Oh, sorry.

• 20:37Speaker 04

  Oh, good.

• 20:38Speaker 01

  First.

• 20:39Speaker 04

  My name is Josh Waxman. I'm the founder of Infinite Capital. I'm here with my wife and one of my mentors always says, rock bottom is overrated. But we all got to go through stuff. And so, you know, we just got married a year and a half ago. We don't have, thank you, we don't have kids yet, but talking about all that. And so my.

• 20:57Speaker 01

  Just let it happen when it happens.

• 20:58Speaker 04

  It'll happen when it happens. So my question for you is going back to, I'm 30 years old, being able to build a multi seven on the way to eight figure company, being able to do those types of things. What are some things that you would do today to be able to prevent some rock bottoms in your future from happening? If you were present with your family, starting off your primarily knowing what you know now?

• 21:22Speaker 01

  That's a loaded question. Uh, there's a lot there. Um,

• 21:29Speaker 01

  for me, I would be aware of something that I share in the new book called the five constraints.

• 21:36Speaker 01

  So on paper, you look a 50 year historical average. They say the top five reasons businesses fail have just gone variety up and down. So lack of capital, lack of leadership, poor market fit, unstable team, things of that nature. And you see those, right? The problem is, is those are symptoms.

• 21:55Speaker 01

  The symptoms get exacerbated or scaled when you try to scale. Right? So for example, if I was to, so your business is close to seven figures now? Close to eight. All right. So one, congratulations. It's hard work to get there. So congratulations.

• 22:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's a good one.

• 22:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure.

• 22:15Speaker 01

  All right. So if I was to take your high seven figure business now and double it next year,

• 22:20Speaker 01

  one is your character ready for it, is your systems ready for it, is your team ready for it? See, a lot of times we want growth and the fact that we don't give growth is actually protection. Because the organization, if we just dump that double that a volume, revenue, all the things, you would implode, you look, the marriage would struggle because you're like, oh crap, I gotta do all these different things. She's going to want your presence. That's what she married you for. Like, sure, she sees potential and she's going to call you hired and all the things like she, all that's true. But at some point in time, she's going to say, you've been working long enough. I can't get scraps. Right? So being aware that those that you love really don't care necessarily about how big you become and how big the business becomes. They care about the quality of your heart, the quality of your intentions and the quality of your presence.

• 23:06Speaker 01

  You see, that stuff is not,

• 23:09Speaker 01

  is underrated and the successes in the businesses are overrated. So many of us got here tonight, very successful people in this room. Everybody should be proud of what they've accomplished. They've all sacrificed to get to where they're at. And yet it's probably the thing that they lead with. Right? One of the things I'm trying to do is I'm trying to encourage high capacity leaders to take off the armor and actually show themselves. Who are you when you're not your business?

• 23:33Speaker 01

  Because if not, when you go to sell your business, you're going to have an identity crisis. Because your business has always been who you are. So therefore you're tied to who you are. And then when that thing is not who you are anymore, therefore that thing struggles. Versus if I can take a hole in a leader and I can create wholeness within the leader, now whatever they build is scalable, scalable, scalable, scalable, scalable. And they don't have to sacrifice their soul and their peace in the process. You see what I'm saying? So the five constraints very quickly are arrogance, ignorance, impatience, fear and insecurity. Those five things, my, I live this and every high capacity leader from athletes to entertainers,

• 24:15Speaker 01

  to business owners, to pastors, to, I've got a friend of mine that I've been coaching a little bit behind the scenes is Rabbi. Right? He, he, these people are the people that everybody goes to for all the answers. And they don't have a safe place to land. You see what I'm saying? How can you shape your home life? So it's sacred.

• 24:34Speaker 01

  One tactical, is it, do one tactical tip? One tactical tip before you go inside your house to spend time with your family and those that you love? Do a brain dump.

• 24:44Speaker 01

  Dump every single thing that you've got in your mind that you're carrying with you and dump it on a piece of paper, dump it in AI, dump in some tool. So when you walk in the home, you're not carrying that with you. Because we do, David and I know this, you carry a frequency. I promise you, all the times I was leading businesses, when I would walk through the door, if I was angry, my entire team knew it and they could be in the back of the room. If I was steady, they also knew that too.

• 25:12Speaker 01

  It's our job as leaders not to incite fear and scarcity in our own homes.

• 25:17Speaker 01

  So I invite you guys to potentially check out the book. It's all preorder. It won't even come out till July of next year. But I want to get it in the hands of leaders. And David, if you're okay with it, for anyone who does decide to do a preorder tonight, I will give the equal amount of money to the charity of your choice.

• 25:34Speaker 00

  Wow, let's hear it.

• 25:35Speaker 05

  So much.

• 25:35Speaker 00

  He's an amazing soul. He'll be around all evening. Let's hear it for Steven Scoggins.