Pod Insights Personally Sorry About The Kid, Episode 4: Macho Man Ninja About this episode “Isn’t this the a-hole who killed Paul McKinnon? Shut up and die!” A distracting obsession. An unexpected letter. And a controversial method of regaining lost memories. Plus, a final message from Paul.
Transcript 4,446 words · 13 speakers
0:00 Speaker 00 Hi, I just had to tell you that I think your podcast has changed my life.
0:06 Speaker 01 Season one of Sold a Story hit a nerve. It was about teaching kids to read. We have gotten this wrong in New York and all across the nation. Now we're back with a new season. This time, we go beyond reading.
0:19 Speaker 00 I've literally been told by my district that I should not be teaching math. I should be facilitating math.
0:26 Speaker 01 I'm Emily Hanford. Go to your podcast app and follow Sold a Story.
0:31 Speaker 02 This is a CBC Podcast.
0:36 Speaker 03 Can you tell me the story about what we saw the night before Paul died?
0:42 Speaker 04 I was driving you to a hockey game, and we saw an accident on the way home.
0:47 Speaker 03 What was the accident? Can you read me the letter? The letter you wrote to Paul about it after he died?
0:56 Speaker 04 When driving home, Alex and I attempted to turn right on Hampton, and there seemed to be an accident. I had to turn around and make a detour. I thought of how scared I always was that one of you would get hit coming home. I felt so relieved that I knew you were home. Alex was with me and Sarah downtown. But I then got an uneasy feeling that maybe you weren't safe. A little apprehensively, I ran up our stairs, leaving Alex to get his own hockey equipment out of the trunk. I peeked in our window and saw you. And saw you, sweet son, stretched out, watching TV. I came in the house, sat down beside you on the couch,
1:41 Speaker 04 and for the last time in my life and yours on this earth, pulled your head to my shoulder. Alex came in and sat on the side of the sofa, and I put my arm around him and, holding you both, said, "I am so lucky to have such two precious boys. I love you both so much." You tolerated this in your sweet, good-natured way. You said, "You're so paranoid, Mum. Every time you see an accident, you think something is going to happen to us. We're fine." And then took your dinner downstairs to watch the sports.
2:21 Speaker 03 And that was the day before?
2:22 Speaker 04 That was the day before.
2:23 Speaker 03 The night before?
2:24 Speaker 04 Yeah.
2:30 Speaker 03 I'm Alex McKinnon, and this is Sorry About the Kid. Chapter 4. Macho Man Ninja.
2:55 Speaker 03 Four years after Paul was killed, Serge Markovic was found guilty of criminal negligence in operating an automobile, causing death. My parents read a statement in court at his sentencing. It scribbled on the back of a recipe for pickled peppers.
3:13 Speaker 05 The continued service of Mr. Markovic in the police force these past four years since he killed Paul is very troubling. To this date, Mr. Markovic has never taken any measures to express his regret or remorse for killing Paul. We feel that the only sentence that is appropriate is a prison sentence with time served. It will ensure that Mr. Markovic will be removed from the police force. Nothing will bring Paul back to our family to make it whole again. This pain will be with us until we too die.
3:51 Speaker 03 In rendering his sentence, the judge said he couldn't understand why Markovic displayed such hostility and rancor towards my family. He noted that Markovic had never understood the gravity of the event, and that he seemed more concerned with the tragedy of his own circumstances.
4:09 Speaker 03 The judge ordered that his driver's license be suspended for two years, and sentenced him to 150 hours of community service and 45 days in prison.
4:19 Speaker 03 He was actually the first working police officer in Montreal to receive a prison sentence.
4:25 Speaker 03 But before Markovic could be taken into custody, his fellow police officers surrounded him, creating a kind of shield. His lawyer was pleading with the judge to postpone the start of his jail time by one week, so that Markovic could spend time with his wife and newborn son, who'd been in an incubator for the past month. The judge refused to delay the sentence, but at the very last minute, Markovic's lawyer reached an appeal court judge by phone, and Markovic was granted bail pending the appeal. Life went on as we waited for the appeal hearing. The fall months were always especially tough.
5:09 Speaker 03 The changing colors, the sound of feet shuffling through dried leaves on the ground. It all transported me back in such a visceral way to the time of Paul's death. Every year on the anniversary, I'd go to the cemetery in Montreal where he's buried, sometimes with my parents or with one of Paul's friends. Often we'd find beer bottle caps on the top of his gravestone, tokens left by some unknown visitor. Finally, three years after his sentencing, and eight years after Paul was killed, Markovic's
5:53 Speaker 03 appeal was rejected. But his 45-day prison term was converted to house arrest. He never served a day behind bars, and he continued working as a police officer. He was even promoted up the ranks over the years. A provincial law would later pass requiring that police officers convicted of a crime be removed from the force. But I wasn't retroactive.
6:24 Speaker 03 In the years that followed, my family felt this deep void. Like we'd done all we could, but there was no closure. Nothing much to show for it.
6:38 Speaker 03 Although, some things did change a bit. The police department adopted a number of new safety regulations. Like requiring that officers slow down and stop at all red lights before proceeding, no matter what emergency they may be heading to. In that first year after Paul was killed, my parents were even featured in a training video for drivers of emergency vehicles as a cautionary tale.
7:04 Speaker 06 The parents of victims will testify to the crime that provoked the loss of one of their family in the event of an accident involving a vehicle of emergency.
7:13 Speaker 07 You have to make a new family after something like this happens. You have to learn how to start over.
7:19 Speaker 03 My mom looks so uncomfortable, sitting on the couch. Her eyes avoiding the camera.
7:25 Speaker 05 You never get over it.
7:28 Speaker 03 My dad looks exhausted.
7:30 Speaker 05 Paul wasn't the only victim.
7:34 Speaker 05 I think it killed a bit of both of us.
7:42 Speaker 03 My mom goes on to say that the good times in our lives are now mostly in the past.
7:48 Speaker 03 Mostly just memories.
7:54 Speaker 03 As I grew up, I avoided the police as best I could. Glaring whenever I saw them. Then one time, when I was in university, my friends and I snuck up onto a roof of an abandoned building downtown. We were taking in the view and out of nowhere, we were surrounded by about 10 cops, flashlights drawn.
8:16 Speaker 03 One by one, my friends were asked for ID before being led back down the series of ladders. I was last. The last cop shone his light over my card and said, "McKinnon, McKinnon, McKinnon." "How do I know this name?"
8:32 Speaker 03 "One of your cops killed my brother," I said.
8:36 Speaker 03 His face dropped.
8:39 Speaker 03 When I got down to the bottom of the building, I saw all my friends lined up against the wall handcuffed.
8:45 Speaker 03 They looked over at the cop who had his arm around me. He told the other officers to release everyone. Before apologizing to me.
8:55 Speaker 03 It wouldn't be the last time something like that happened. But the special treatment didn't make me feel any less angry at Markovic.
9:05 Speaker 03 Over the years, he became a bit of an obsession.
9:10 Speaker 03 During the trials, he'd stuck to a story that he'd done nothing wrong. That he'd drive the same way again. It was all so baffling.
9:24 Speaker 03 Then, I think it was about 10 years after Paul was killed. A letter was dropped through the mail slot of our front door. It read:
9:35 Speaker 07 Mr. and Mrs. McKinnon, this letter should have been written a long time ago. Unfortunately, just as I was told not to attend your son's funeral, the same people counseled me not to contact you while legal proceedings were still underway. The accident was a tragedy, and I do offer you my heartfelt condolences. To have contributed to the loss of a life, especially a young, promising life such as your son's, is a burden not likely to go away. You wanted me to have a harsh sentence. I got a lifetime of reliving the horror as I wonder at the carelessness of young drivers. Please believe me when I tell you
10:19 Speaker 07 that I probably did more in the past years to slow down any eager recruit I could talk to than any admonitions they received or procedures they must abide by. The only fact that might possibly render your sorrow more bearable is the knowledge that the loss of your son's life won't have been utterly in vain. Police officers will never drive their cruisers in the same manner ever again. I know I haven't. Once again, my apologies for denying you for so long of the condolences you so rightly deserve. Sincerely, S. Markovic.
11:03 Speaker 03 I remember my parents being so furious at the letter. At the time, it rang hollow, like a PR move, something he did more for himself than for us, to close the door on what happened. And his line about how police officers would never drive the same way ever again. We saw cops driving dangerously in the city all the time, reversing down blocks, pulling U-turns without signaling. A couple of years ago, one even ran a red light while my wife and I were crossing the street. I raised my hands as if to say, "What the hell?" He stopped, stuck his head out the window, and shouted back at me, "Call the cops."
11:49 Speaker 03 I did. I report them each time I see something like that.
11:54 Speaker 03 But over the years, the drivers have gotten harder and harder to identify.
11:59 Speaker 03 Back when Paul was killed, the city's cop cars were marked with large ID numbers on the door. Now, the numbers are about a third of the size, often much smaller, in a narrow space over the wheels.
12:15 Speaker 03 But rereading Markovic's letter all these years later, I'm not sure what to think.
12:22 Speaker 03 He'd been terrible in court. He'd made it so easy to hate him. But in this letter, he's saying that was just a defense strategy his lawyer came up with.
12:35 Speaker 03 I've been trying to figure out what to make of all this with my grief counselor, Yvonne.
12:41 Speaker 03 I mean, he was like the boogeyman, essentially, in my family. But, you know, he didn't serve any jail time. He just basically had community service. I mean, the sentence was the first, I think, of its kind, but it was just so... insignificant.
13:00 Speaker 08 Would you ever talk to him?
13:02 Speaker 03 I'm trying to.
13:04 Speaker 08 Oh.
13:05 Speaker 03 Because I think I want, I want to know that he suffered, I guess.
13:12 Speaker 08 I mean, I understand. You want to hear him say, I think of Paul every single day of my life. And then every time I look at my son, I think how lucky I am to have the son. Because at the same time, your brother died. That's what we want to hear that guy say. I would. That's what I want to hear him say.
13:37 Speaker 03 A couple of years ago, I started trying to reach out to Mark Vic. He'd retired from the police force in two thousand nineteen, and I got no response from his official police email address. No response to a LinkedIn message I sent either, nor from a home inspection company I emailed, where he seemed to be working with his son.
13:58 Speaker 03 I Googled him, but not much came up, other than an old local news website where he was complaining about noise in his neighborhood.
14:07 Speaker 03 The comments said things like, isn't this the asshole who killed Paul McKinnon? Shut up and die.
14:16 Speaker 03 I found out his son is named Alex, like me, and that his mother was named Stella, like my daughter. And I spoke to a former cop from the same station as him, who'd been to his retirement party, and told me that Mark Vic looked like a shadow of himself, that he'd just said a few words and then was gone.
14:37 Speaker 03 Eventually, I found out where he lived and decided to drop a letter off at his house, asking him to speak with me.
14:46 Speaker 03 This is before I started making the podcast, so the sound's not great, but I recorded the drive on my phone.
14:52 Speaker 09 I don't know, it's hairy at all.
14:55 Speaker 09 I mean, we're just on the edge of the island.
14:57 Speaker 03 My friend Steph came along for emotional support.
15:01 Speaker 09 What are we doing? I don't know, but I'm glad I'm doing it with you. I'm glad you're doing it with me, too.
15:08 Speaker 03 I was nervous. What would happen if I ran into him?
15:13 Speaker 09 Uh, that's my van.
15:15 Speaker 03 We pulled up to his address.
15:18 Speaker 09 Ah, this is it. Pulling in? Uh, don't pull in, don't pull in. Okay, here, I'll, I'll hear, I'll go here.
15:25 Speaker 03 There was a long driveway leading up to a house that we could barely see. I don't see if there's a mailbox anywhere. It was pitch black and there were no lights along the path. Where is the fucking mailbox?
15:36 Speaker 09 Well, it's probably like on the porch, which is who knows how deep in there.
15:42 Speaker 03 The only way to deliver the letter was to step into the darkness. Alright.
15:52 Speaker 03 We walked along the driveway.
15:55 Speaker 03 There were two cars there. Someone was probably home.
16:02 Speaker 03 I walked up the steps, dropped the letter in his mailbox,
16:07 Speaker 03 and we hurried back to the car.
16:10 Speaker 03 That was scary.
16:11 Speaker 09 That was super scary.
16:15 Speaker 03 Jeez, that was like really scary.
16:17 Speaker 09 Yeah.
16:17 Speaker 03 That was the most scary thing I've done this year.
16:25 Speaker 03 I really wonder if it's gonna respond.
16:35 Speaker 03 A few days later, I got an email from the company Markovic seemed to be working at that I'd reached out to weeks earlier.
16:44 Speaker 03 It said, "Sir, Mr. Markovic has read all the posts, letters, and emails you've sent to him and his employers, but does not wish to communicate with you. Please refrain from further contacts. Regards."
17:03 Speaker 03 It was unsigned.
17:06 Speaker 03 And I haven't heard anything from him since.
17:12 Speaker 03 Then, a couple of months ago, I went to the courthouse to reread some of the documents from the trial.
17:20 Speaker 03 The clerk told me there was no record of them.
17:23 Speaker 03 I'd accessed them a year before, so I asked him to check again. But he said there was nothing coming up under the name Serge Markovic. He said the only explanation he could think of was if Markovic had been pardoned.
17:39 Speaker 03 But he couldn't confirm it. Because by the very nature of a pardon, only the perpetrator and victim are entitled to that information.
17:49 Speaker 03 I later called the parole board of Canada. And they told me that because Paul is dead, I can apply to find out on his behalf. But they warned me the process could take months or longer.
18:05 Speaker 03 A pardon is the forgiveness of a crime. I know Markovic didn't set out to kill Paul that day. But I still can't wrap my head around how I could forgive someone who won't even speak with me.
18:22 Speaker 03 At the same time, what I've started to realize is that this obsession with wanting to talk to Markovic, with wanting to know how he's felt in the years since killing Paul. It's just another way I've been avoiding thinking about how I've felt since losing Paul. It's another thing that's been blocking me from my memories.
18:47 Speaker 03 Do you, what do you think of hypnotherapy? Do you think that can, that can bring it back some other memories that I've lost? Or what's your opinion on that?
19:00 Speaker 08 Well, I, I don't know why you have to be in such a hurry, you know, for that sort of thing, because I, in my experience with people with trauma, it takes time to unravel. Now, I'm not a believer, I suppose, of hypnotism, because I don't believe this should be hurried along. I think it, it's a process. It's a journey. And if you unpack it slowly, it's going to be by far the best. But if you want to try hypnotism, then you, you will see if it works for you. It could, I, you know, I just don't know.
19:45 Speaker 03 So I am on my way to the hypnotherapist. Can I be put under, I guess? I don't know. I have no idea what to expect from this, but I'm,
20:02 Speaker 03 I'm, I'm open to it.
20:16 Speaker 00 Hi, I just had to tell you that I think your podcast has changed my life.
20:22 Speaker 01 Season one of Sold a Story hit a nerve. It was about teaching kids to read. We have gotten this wrong in New York and all across the nation. Now we're back with a new season. This time, we go beyond reading.
20:35 Speaker 00 I've literally been told by my district that I should not be teaching math. I should be facilitating math.
20:42 Speaker 01 I'm Emily Hanford. Go to your podcast app and follow Sold a Story.
20:56 Speaker 03 I've booked myself a hypnosis session with a woman named Christine. We've arrived, apparently.
21:05 Speaker 03 It's at her home in the West Island of Montreal.
21:09 Speaker 03 Hi. Should I take my shoes off out here? I arrive with a coffee in my hand, and she tells me to stop drinking it. I just had like three sips. Apparently caffeine can interfere with the whole process. I don't mind throwing it out to you. Is there a... She gives me a glass of water instead and has me lie down on an olive green daybed.
21:29 Speaker 03 And then we just get into it. Like, I'm much... I want to remember what I lost.
21:39 Speaker 03 And not so much as the sadness that everything caused.
21:44 Speaker 10 Yeah.
21:46 Speaker 10 All right, let's take a deep breath in together.
21:52 Speaker 10 Very good. And again.
22:00 Speaker 10 Let yourself relax.
22:05 Speaker 03 She spends a few minutes inducing me.
22:08 Speaker 10 You can drift off to anywhere that you want to go.
22:12 Speaker 03 Trying to guide me towards a state somewhere between wakefulness and sleep.
22:17 Speaker 10 Let yourself leave your mind.
22:22 Speaker 10 Drifting off.
22:26 Speaker 10 And we're there now.
22:34 Speaker 11 Just see, I feel like I'm in a, watching a
22:39 Speaker 11 a doll, a dollhouse. The whole wall is open, you see multiple floors.
22:46 Speaker 10 Hmm.
22:49 Speaker 10 Have a closer look.
22:55 Speaker 11 There's something, I just can't see where it is.
22:57 Speaker 10 Hmm.
23:03 Speaker 11 I see Paul's face.
23:06 Speaker 10 Hmm.
23:09 Speaker 11 As a younger kid than when he died.
23:11 Speaker 10 Mm-hmm, okay.
23:13 Speaker 11 He's kinda like looking up now at me. Like a smile.
23:23 Speaker 11 Like, got thrills, thrilling smile, like.
23:30 Speaker 11 He doesn't seem to really move, he just his facial expression doesn't seem to move, it's just it's almost like a
23:40 Speaker 11 cardboard cutout of his, just his face.
23:43 Speaker 10 Hmm.
23:45 Speaker 11 Big, wide, smile. Almost like a sticker, like plastered on top of this helmet.
23:54 Speaker 10 Interesting.
23:58 Speaker 11 It's gone now.
23:59 Speaker 10 Okay.
24:01 Speaker 11 It went away.
24:02 Speaker 10 Okay.
24:08 Speaker 03 The session isn't a breakthrough, where everything comes flooding back.
24:14 Speaker 03 But I feel Paul with me.
24:18 Speaker 03 I see images of him laughing. A laugh I'd forgotten. Uncontrollable and contagious, his whole body shaking.
24:28 Speaker 03 I see a memory of him walking down a gravel road at summer camp. I see him pitching at this baseball game, where his hair fell in front of his face and made him mess up his throw. Everyone started laughing. And he thought it was funny, too. Nothing ever, uh, seemed to bother him. Like, for me, I think I would've, I would've been mortified to, or really embarrassed to have messed up in front of everybody and to have everyone laughing at me. He just kind of
25:01 Speaker 03 I get to see him kind of like laughing, being like, "Yeah, I was stupid, I'm an idiot", kind of thing.
25:10 Speaker 03 I just started to cry when I saw him just laughing like that.
25:23 Speaker 03 I did a debrief with Christine a few days after our session,
25:28 Speaker 03 and she said something that stuck with me.
25:31 Speaker 10 Those living memories are you. They cannot be separate from you.
25:41 Speaker 10 You are not separate from them.
25:45 Speaker 03 Like, even if I don't consciously remember all the moments that I had with Paul,
25:52 Speaker 03 the sum of those moments has shaped who I am. They're all part of me.
26:01 Speaker 03 He's part of me.
26:03 Speaker 03 And that can never be lost.
26:19 Speaker 03 In one of my last sessions with Yvonne, she told me that one way to tell if my family's grieving process might be stuck somewhere is whether we still picture Paul as a 14-year-old or whether we can picture him growing older.
26:36 Speaker 03 I asked my mom about it on what would have been Paul's 44th birthday, which is the same age my parents were when he died.
26:44 Speaker 07 It was very sad this year. Maybe because of him being the same age as we were when he died, that we just kind of were very aware of all that time that was stolen from him, you know?
26:59 Speaker 03 Did you get into thinking what he'd be doing now?
27:03 Speaker 07 No, I don't want to do that. I really don't. I mean, sometimes I think, "Oh, your child and Sarah's children would love Uncle Paul", you know? But I don't want to make up a life for him that he didn't live.
27:21 Speaker 12 I almost find those questions a little annoying.
27:25 Speaker 12 You know, like, he was enough as he was. You know what I mean? Like, it was a full life, even if I feel it was a short life.
27:33 Speaker 03 Yep.
27:35 Speaker 12 It's, it was, it's hard for, it was hard, and it still is hard, for him to be static.
27:42 Speaker 12 And for us to be changing. Because we keep changing and he doesn't as well. And I think that becomes a constant readjustment against his stillness.
27:57 Speaker 03 Why do you think that's hard, actually? Because in a way, I would think that that would almost be comforting.
28:04 Speaker 12 No.
28:06 Speaker 12 No, because I think what I miss is not who he was.
28:11 Speaker 12 Like, what I miss is the ongoing relationship.
28:16 Speaker 03 Right.
28:17 Speaker 12 Like, that's the mourning. That's the grief, is that that particular relationship doesn't continue.
28:29 Speaker 03 Yep.
28:30 Speaker 12 And so you kind of have to keep creating, like, how, like, how do I relate to a, I don't, you know, when I was sixteen and he was fourteen, that's a relationship. But now I'm in my forties, and he's fourteen.
28:49 Speaker 03 When you think of Paul, do you think of him? At what stage of his life do you think of him?
28:58 Speaker 05 Up until maybe
29:02 Speaker 05 he would have been getting into his late thirties, I thought of him as fourteen.
29:09 Speaker 05 Lately, I've been thinking, well, he would have been, he would have been a forty-four-year-old man. And then I have to think about how that would have looked. I can't quite capture that. But I don't see him as that young boy the same way.
29:27 Speaker 05 So he's coming along with us.
29:30 Speaker 05 I talk to Paul a lot.
29:34 Speaker 05 I feel he's here.
29:41 Speaker 03 I talk with Paul too, sometimes.
29:44 Speaker 03 Mostly on the anniversary of his death.
29:47 Speaker 03 And every year on his birthday, I try to do something new.
29:53 Speaker 03 Something he never got the chance to do. One year, I drove out to the Pacific Ocean. Another year, the desert.
30:03 Speaker 03 This year, I'm making this podcast.
30:11 Speaker 03 My mom recently found a school project Paul had to do in grade five. A biography of his family.
30:19 Speaker 03 In it, he describes my sister as, quote, "very kind, generous, and helpful to both me and my brother when we have problems in our homework." I like her very much.
30:32 Speaker 03 He says this about me.
30:35 Speaker 03 "Although he likes to pretend he is a macho man ninja, he's really a soft-hearted little boy who wants to be top man." I love him a lot.
30:51 Speaker 03 And that smell of rot that I smelled when I touched his body at his wake, that scared me whenever I got too close to the box of his bloody clothes in the basement.
31:02 Speaker 03 Every now and then, I smell that smell again.
31:07 Speaker 03 It comes out of nowhere.
31:10 Speaker 03 It doesn't scare me anymore, though. It feels like Paul trying to tell me something. Or letting me know things are gonna be okay.
31:21 Speaker 03 And it makes me smile.
31:24 Speaker 07 I think that when Paul first died, one thing that really, really surprised me and made me pause was that sometimes people would say, "Oh, is it hard for you to see boys his age with their parents?" And it's the strangest... It was strange to me that I kept thinking that if I could have a son who's still alive, but who wasn't Paul... Would I want that? And so I kind of thought, no. I want to be Paul's mother. I mean, this happened. I hate that it happened. But I would never have
32:10 Speaker 07 given up the opportunity of being Paul's mother and having Paul in my life.
32:16 Speaker 07 I was never envious of other mothers with their sons who weren't Paul.
32:24 Speaker 07 Paul was a gift. And I'm will always be grateful that I was Paul's mother. I'll always be grateful that I'm your mother. I'm always be grateful that I'm Sarah's mother. I wouldn't want it any different.
32:47 Speaker 03 Who's your favorite kid?
32:50 Speaker 07 Every one of you, every one of you said to me, I know I'm your favorite. I know I'm your favorite.
33:00 Speaker 07 Each of you.
33:29 Speaker 03 We reached out to the Montreal Police Department about certain details of the story, but they declined our request for an interview.
33:37 Speaker 03 Sarah Markovic did not respond to our request for an interview.
33:43 Speaker 03 Sorry About the Kid is written and produced by me, Alex McKinnon, and Mira Burtwyn-Tonack. Editing and sound design by Mira Burtwyn-Tonack. Jeff Turner is our senior producer. Our theme music is by David Drury. S.K. Robert is our coordinating producer. Our associate producer is Caitlin Taylor. R.F. Newrani is executive producer. Our logo is by Mathilde Corbeille.
34:08 Speaker 03 Special thanks to Yvonne Clark, Christine Clark, Joanna Fox, Eric Doherty, John Mieschek, Cecil Fernandez, Tanya Springer, and to everyone I interviewed for the show, even those whose conversations didn't make it in.
34:24 Speaker 03 And a giant thank you to my family. I know it wasn't always easy.
34:30 Speaker 03 And if you liked the show, we would love it if you would rate it and review it on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast app. And also tell your friends about it. They can follow Sorry About the Kid on CBC Listen or wherever they get their podcasts.
34:45 Speaker 03 Thanks for listening.
34:55 Speaker 02 For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca/podcasts.
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