NO, Part One: Advance

We meet Kaitlin in her youth as she learns to navigate her first sexual experiences along with the confusion of her desires. Kaitlin learns how to decline unwanted sexual advances and the difficulty of advocating for her needs. But what is she to do when her words are ignored and her agency is taken from her? "Advance" a non-psychedelic trip into my girlhood was originally produced in May 2017 and features sound design and composition by Shani Aviram. 2025 UPDATE: Drove by North Dundas the other day on a joyride. The smoking tree is not small anymore.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Hi there. Steve Patterson here, host of The Debaters, the show where audience applause decides our winner. And we got the best comedians taking on the world's most important questions like, is Halloween for adults? We're not kidding around with this one. This is Halloweener Take All. It's not a trick. So treat yourself to this week's new episode of The Debaters wherever you get your podcasts. We hope you'll cheer, but maybe you'll boo.

• 0:27Speaker 00

  This is a CBC Podcast.

• 0:31Speaker 01

  I'm Caitlin Prest.

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  And this is No.

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  In this mini-season, I'm going to take you on a trip. The trip is not psychedelic, nor does it involve driving anywhere. It is the trip that is growing up.

• 0:56Speaker 01

  My girlhood.

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  Looking for love, figuring out sex, striving for respect, and learning how to be a person.

• 1:08Speaker 01

  Just a little warning before we start. Just like in everything that we do on The Heart, there are some uncomfortable moments. But in this series, they might be particularly upsetting for some people. So take care of you.

• 1:27Speaker 01

  The story starts in my diary.

• 1:35Speaker 01

  Dear diary. Wesley loves Anna more than me. Dear diary. I wish Wesley had a crush on me. Dear diary, when I grow up, I'm going to be a teacher and a writer. Dear diary. Wesley's so cute. I wish he knew that I had a crush on him. Dear diary. I love Wesley so much. Dear diary. I love Wesley. I don't have boobs. Among the many ambitions that filled the pages of my girlhood diary, being desired was the one that occupied the most space. Yes, I wanted to be a writer and a teacher, just like Anna Green Gables. But the size of my breasts, how many times Wesley Monteith called me, and my various strategies at winning the teenage love war is what someone in the future will know about Caitlin Prest. Dear diary. I'm still

• 2:20Speaker 02

  Gotta go.

• 2:23Speaker 01

  My top strategy was to beat the boys at being boys. I tried to beat them at ball hockey, belching, and most importantly, playing the field, as they called it in Archie comics. I somehow sensed that by pretending to be on the same single-minded mission that they seemed to be, that I would reverse my impending objectification. North Dundas District High School is in the middle of two cemeteries and two fields of grazing cattle. In the front yard beside the teacher's parking lot, there's a sad little tree. Underneath the sad little tree is where the smokers smoke.

• 3:08Speaker 01

  It was there that I founded the No Getting Ass Club. Getting ass was defined as anything from a handjob to a dick in your cunt. The point of the club was to get kicked out. Tyler. I wanted to get ass from Tyler Thomas. Oh, Tyler. Tyler looked just like a European B-movie actor I'd fallen in love with in the non-musical version of Les Misérables. I was so obsessed with him that I made best friends with a girl who lived down the street from where he lived: Sandra. Sandra's house was the kind where parents bought cigarettes for teenagers, where you

• 3:50Speaker 01

  could accidentally get drunk off a king can and puke on your feet in a cold shower, where you could sit on the big L-shaped couch and watch Jerry Springer in peace. One such afternoon, I was sitting on the wrong side of the L. Between me and Tyler Thomas sat Sandra, Janie, Shell, and Jason Skidmore. I want to be beside Tyler.

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  Immediately, I start trying to devise a credible excuse to switch places. I'm thinking, if I get up to pee, I can come back and just pretend like I was sitting beside Tyler the whole time. And then sit beside him and revel in the accidental touching of our legs.

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  Before I can make my move, something cold slithers up under the midriff of my velvet tank top. It slithers to the lip of my flare-like jeans. A hand.

• 4:57Speaker 01

  Jason Skidmore.

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  I only knew his name because I thought it presented a funny contrast to his face. A skid could be one of two things. A shit stain in somebody's underwear. Or the name of the lowest category of the high school caste system. The skids were the dirtiest, druggiest, most disgusting people in school.

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  I thought Jason might be a skid. But he had a beautiful face. He didn't even know what my name was. I'd never heard him say it.

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  The hand squirms down. Down the tender skin underneath my pierced belly button. Down the satin thong that would often peek out of the back of my pants.

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  My chest is red. My ears.

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  I'm frozen. Instead of getting up or moving the hand, I just squeeze my legs together.

• 6:03Speaker 01

  I don't want Jason to think that I'm thwarting his advance. I've been waiting my entire life for an advance. My friends are mesmerized by the chairs being thrown around on screen. The cold, bony fingers slide their way in between my labia.

• 6:19Speaker 01

  I start thinking, maybe Jason Skidmore has a crush on me. Maybe he's seen me around. Maybe he noticed how smart I am. Maybe one day he'll want to hold my hand.

• 6:36Speaker 01

  The closing remarks of Jerry Springer begin. My friends finally come back to life. Tyler Thomas gets up to leave. Then Janie, Sandra, Shell, and finally, the hand. While the credits roll on the television, I feel certain that I'm no longer in the no getting ass club.

• 7:08Speaker 01

  In the smoking pit, under the sad little tree, I didn't tell anyone about what happened on the L-shaped couch. When Jason Skidmore came to smoke his cigarette, my chest would get red again. I would sideways glance while I waited for him to approach me. Lunch breaks came and went. I smoked more cigarettes than Sandra's parents could provide, but no matter how close in proximity I came to Jason Skidmore, he never once said my name out loud.

• 7:42Speaker 03

  I'm Phelan Johnson, and I host See You in Court, a podcast about the cases that changed Canada. This week, we're talking about a seismic court case in our country's history. It starts with the story of Lee Carter. You see, Lee loved her mom so much that she agreed to help her die. It happened in secret, in Switzerland, to avoid arrest in Canada. But then Lee came home and chose to take another risk, to go public. Take a listen to how the Carter family rallied behind the right to die in this new episode of See You in Court, in your feeds now.

• 8:18Speaker 01

  Speaking coarsely about getting ass created a shield around my tender teenage heart, but it didn't actually prepare me for the getting of the ass, or getting my ass gotten. Was there some other way to view a stranger's entry into somewhere that they were not invited? Another way to view my total and complete acquiescence to an activity that was unwanted?

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  After Jason Skidmore, I promised myself that I would learn how to unfreeze, how to say no.

• 8:57Speaker 01

  One important part of getting there was figuring out how to say yes to myself.

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  The first time I get ass in a way that feels good is with my best friend Sheri. And then Krista. And then Roxanne. What is eating pussy? Sheri and I read Hustler magazines and point at the things that we want to try doing to each other. Krista and I write down lists of sex acts on paper with code names.

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  Pogo. We decide in advance what order we'll do them in, who gets to go second.

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  Before I take off my shirt, Roxanne asks me if this time... Can I kiss you on the mouth? She asks me if I like a lot of tongue or a little.

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  With my high school girlfriends, every sex begins with fastidious communication over what areas of each other's bodies we'll touch and how.

• 10:06Speaker 04

  Come on, give me a blowjob.

• 10:12Speaker 01

  I'm 17, it's 4 a.m., my ride home left without me three hours ago. Trevor Smalls missed his ride too, and we're both crashing in our friend's basement. Trevor looks like Hayden Christensen, he's hot. I've been vying for his attention for most of high school, but I don't want to give him a blowjob. I've never done it before, I have a boyfriend, and like, we've never even kissed or anything even close to that. I don't, I don't want to. But, I'm frozen.

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  Two years after the Jason Skidmore incident, I've not yet learned how to say no to an advance of any kind, even non-sexual advances.

• 11:02Speaker 05

  You want a lift?

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  Uh, where are you going?

• 11:06Speaker 05

  In the complete opposite direction that you need to go.

• 11:08Speaker 01

  Sure, that, that, that sounds good.

• 11:10Speaker 04

  You want a free coffee? This one's on the house.

• 11:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, sounds great.

• 11:13Speaker 04

  Hey, you gotta come to our party on Saturday.

• 11:17Speaker 01

  Definitely, I can't wait. Hey, baby, nice ass! Me? Oh, thanks. Thank you. Back on the couch with Trevor. I'll hurt his feelings if I say no. There will be an uncomfortable moment if I say no. All of the fears around saying no are flooding through me. It's very flattering that he wants me to give him a blowjob. It might mean he likes me. This might be my chance for love. I want him to like me. If I say no, he definitely won't like me. I close my eyes, embrace myself. I think I can do it this time. I really think I can.

• 11:52Speaker 01

  Um, no, I don't think I should.

• 11:59Speaker 01

  Wow. I did it. I fucking said no. I feel so good. I'm so proud of myself. Amazing. This is really...

• 12:07Speaker 04

  Come on, give me a blowjob.

• 12:14Speaker 01

  He's gonna make me say it again? What the fuck? Uh, no, I, I don't, I don't want to.

• 12:23Speaker 04

  Come on, give me a blowjob.

• 12:32Speaker 01

  It wasn't easier the second time, at all.

• 12:41Speaker 01

  He puts my hand on his dick.

• 12:46Speaker 01

  This was the moment that I learned that saying no wasn't enough. That someone could wear me down, little by little. That it would start to feel like a Twilight Zone moment, where everything was normal before, and now suddenly the walls are bending in on each other, and you learn that you're actually a ghost.

• 13:04Speaker 01

  You start to think you're crazy. You feel trapped. You're having an argument about whether you're gonna suck a guy's dick. And even though the air is super tense with this argument feeling, he still wants you to suck his dick.

• 13:20Speaker 01

  The only way for this awful moment to end is just to do what he says. "Come on." And you do it.

• 13:33Speaker 01

  Maybe you tell yourself that you're enjoying it. Maybe you tell yourself that there's something tender about this moment. At the same time, part of you is silently screaming. It's like a dream. You open your mouth and nothing comes out.

• 13:58Speaker 01

  This is only the first of many times that I will say no and it'll be ignored. I'm 18, I'm on a beach at night, I'm wearing a pleated jean skirt. We've been making out. I tell him I don't want to have sex. This time, I push his hands away as forcefully as I can muster. It's the moment that you realize how weak you are. He pulls me onto him and starts pumping. I regret having worn a skirt. Still 19, we're making out. I tell him I don't want him to finger me. I just want to keep kissing. He gets annoyed, gets up, and goes to sleep in another room.

• 14:35Speaker 01

  I'm 20, naked, kissing in his dorm room. I tell him I don't want to have sex. He goes and gets a condom anyway, unwraps it, and starts putting it on. "What are you doing?" "I'm just trying it on." This time, I laugh in his face and I tell him I'll leave if he doesn't stop being a jerk. I'm 21. He keeps trying to get me to give him a handjob. "Why don't you go to the bathroom and take care of your hard-on and then come back and we can have a nice time together?" He's skeptical. But I convince him it's the right thing to do. When he comes back from his bathroom time, we make out and fall asleep in each other's arms.

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  After all these years of practice, I start to feel like I'm figuring it out. I even start to feel like I'm getting good at it.

• 15:55Speaker 01

  This has been episode one of No. In the next episode, I come into my own as a badass young woman who knows what she wants, and I wait to fall in love for real.

• 16:11Speaker 01

  No is a serialized season of The Heart. There are three episodes to go. The season has been years in the making, and there are many thanks in order. Ariel Han, assistant producer extraordinaire, who's been working on this with me for months and months. Mitra Kaboli, editor, producer, and moral support through this entire process. Sharon Michiehi, editor and advisor in all things life and art. Phoebe Wang, associate producer and heart backbone. Editorial advisor, Stephanie Foo. Jen Ing, who does all of our design. And especially Shawnee Aviram, the amazing sound designer who showered this episode

• 16:56Speaker 01

  with her sonic brilliance. Special thanks to Alana Gordon, who loaned us her beautiful apartment in Philly to make radio magic inside of. This entire season is made with the support of the IWMF, that's the International Women's Media Fund. And of course, Radiotopia and PRX. Thanks, as always, to the Knight Foundation and Adzirk. Bye.