Two Ex-CIA Officers Clash Over China, Israel & Surveillance | PBD Podcast #832

Former CIA officers Andrew Bustamante and Sarah Adams join Patrick Bet-David for one of the most intense intelligence debates yet. They clash over China, Israel, Iran, terrorism, AI, surveillance, propaganda, JFK, Havana Syndrome, and the future of America. Two insiders. Two completely different worldviews. Decide for yourself who makes the stronger case. ------- 👞 GET THE NEW FLB 1'S: https://bit.ly/4mXV9gd 🎟️ SECURE YOUR 2026 VAULT TICKETS: https://bit.ly/4xU2SCW Ⓜ️ CONNECT WITH SARAH ON MINNECT: https://bit.ly/4w2cYjz Ⓜ️ CONNECT WITH ANDREW ON MINNECT: https://bit.ly/4yq9IAg Ⓜ️ CONNECT ON MINNECT: https://bit.ly/4kSVkso Ⓜ️ PBD PODCAST CIRCLES: https://bit.ly/4mAWQAP 🕵️ FIND YOUR SPY SUPERPOWER: https://yt.everydayspy.com/4vwTG5G 📖 READ ANDY'S CIA THRILLER "SHADOW CELL": https://geni.us/ShadowCellBook ▶️ FOLLOW ANDY ON YOUTUBE: https://youtube.com/@Andrew-Bustamante 👔 BET-DAVID CONSULTING: https://bit.ly/4lzQph2 🥃 BOARDROOM CIGAR LOUNGE: https://bit.ly/4pzLEXj 🇰 KALSHI: http://kalshi.com/pbd 💬 TEXT US: Text "PODCAST" to 310-340-1132 to get the latest updates in real-time! SUBSCRIBE TO: @VALUETAINMENT @BetDavidConsulting @ValuetainmentComedy ABOUT US: Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal Bestseller "Your Next Five Moves" (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I can't help but think that when it becomes super intelligent, it will stop thinking like us. It's only thinking like us right now because we're the ones driving it.

• 0:09Speaker 01

  Tens of thousands of AI-powered cameras across the country.

• 0:13Speaker 02

  6,000 communities, 3,000 law enforcement offices are using it. How do you feel about this?

• 0:18Speaker 00

  That is the benefit of a surveillance state. Keeps people safe, keeps law and order in place.

• 0:23Speaker 02

  Please tell me you disagree with them. You'd give up your privacy.

• 0:27Speaker 00

  You've already, you've got no privacy, man. This is what I'm trying to get you and the whole world to understand right now. We have no privacy.

• 0:33Speaker 02

  We're gonna play some games today. We're gonna do a few different things. I'm gonna give each of you these paddles. And I'm gonna give different conspiracies, and you pick and choose. CIA killed John F. Kennedy. Hitler wasn't never killed. He ended up going to Argentina and he kinda stayed there. Really? Okay, how about moon landing? This is a serious one. For some people, it's very important.

• 0:56Speaker 02

  What do you think about when you hear an AI system hacking into NSA's most sensitive system within hours?

• 1:02Speaker 00

  I think a lot of people would fight that technology violently.

• 1:08Speaker 00

  I am firm on my opinion that secrets are required for society.

• 1:13Speaker 02

  That would be like, you create the product and put it in a country that you hate and see it collapse. See it collapse. You know what I'm saying? Like, use it against them.

• 1:23Speaker 02

  Where does your paranoia lie the most for the next 10 years?

• 1:26Speaker 03

  I don't lose any sleep about Israel. If they ever became a problem, we could bomb them into oblivion in five minutes. So I don't know why anyone loses sleep over them.

• 1:33Speaker 02

  You agree with what she has to say? Do you have a rebuttal? Okay, please go for it.

• 1:36Speaker 00

  It seems like a huge amount of claims with very little evidence to back it up.

• 1:40Speaker 03

  They don't have a big stick. They barely can deal with their own threats.

• 1:44Speaker 00

  Israel has the second most capable military in the world. That's a big fucking stick. They have nuclear weapons. They have nuclear weapons. That's a big fucking stick.

• 1:53Speaker 03

  So the terrorists didn't drag any of us into that situation.

• 1:55Speaker 00

  I said it's a shared fucking responsibility, Sarah, do you listen?

• 2:12Speaker 02

  This is probably one of my favorite conversations I've ever had, and here's why. You've got two CIA officers, ex Andy Bustamante, and then we have Sarah Adams as a CIA targeter. They disagreed hardcore the first 30 minutes on one topic of what is a bigger crisis and threat in the future, Israel or Iran and Islam. It's phenomenal. I think you're gonna enjoy that a lot. By the way, both of them are on MINEC. You can ask them any questions. It's very rare you have this kind of access to ex-CIA officers. You can ask Andy any questions here on MINEC and Sarah over here. And last but not least, we really are excited about this next phase of entertainment with the interviews that we're gonna be doing. We have some very big plans that's coming soon. And our commitment is to you. All we wanna do is make this thing a better product for you.

• 2:55Speaker 02

  We've been doing this for over a decade and our investments recently that we're making in the production studio house, we got some very big plans. So if you're watching this and you enjoy the direction we're going, the 51% of the audience that you watch the content but you haven't yet subscribed, if you could subscribe to the channel here, it would help us bring more of these types of interviews and conversations to you. If you haven't done it yet, take a quick second, just click that subscribe button. It would mean the world to us. With that being said, enjoy this interview with Andy Bustamante and Sarah Adams. We have a special podcast today with two ex-CIA individuals with different stories, different backgrounds. They've never done anything together on the show. This'll be the first time. So Sarah, thank you for making the time. Andy, great to have you back on.

• 3:39Speaker 00

  Absolutely.

• 3:39Speaker 02

  We were talking about a minute ago how much we miss your old hair, but you look great. So it's good to have you on. We're gonna play some games today. We're gonna do a few different things. It's gonna be a little bit interactive and, you know, some of the stuff you don't know. The reason why I have the iPad in front of you, because in a few minutes, you'll have to put it to use. I got some signs here that I'll hand to each one of you guys to see what we're doing. So we got, we got some things that we wanna go through here today. But before we get started, if you don't mind sharing your story with the audience real quick, so they can kinda get an idea of your background.

• 4:05Speaker 03

  Sure, I spent about a decade at the CIA as a targeter. I worked the Pakistan-Afghanistan department. I worked in the Iranian Ops Division. And then I worked in a special cell for the director, kinda looking at anything missed in the agency. So that was a big ask. And then I got recruited out of the CIA and I went to the Select Committee on Benghazi at the time, under Trey Gowdy. I went to the private sector for a couple of years and I worked for JetBlue. And then I went to Department of War and I did R and D efforts. And I just left that to start my own podcast.

• 4:39Speaker 02

  Beautiful. And it's grown very fast. The podcast is a fast-growing podcast. Andy, for the audience that maybe doesn't know your background.

• 4:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, absolutely. Former CIA also. I was with the National clandestine Service for seven years from 2007 to 2014. Left, went into the corporate world, trying to reinvent myself and learned that there's an incredible opportunity to apply spy skills in the business world. And that gave me the inspiration to launch my own company, Everyday Spy. And then since launching Everyday Spy, we went viral in 2022, rode that viral wave until about 2024, and now we run a multimillion-dollar company, man.

• 5:16Speaker 02

  I love it. And eventually, the goal is to disappear.

• 5:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, eventually the goal is to, right now, the goal is to take the kids overseas, let them get a second citizenship and ultimately leave the company behind so it can run itself, like every business owner wants, without me.

• 5:30Speaker 02

  And we won't see you again. Like, it's gonna be like Kaiser Sose type of thing, but we will see you.

• 5:33Speaker 00

  I'll come see you.

• 5:34Speaker 02

  All right, gotta come down and see us. Okay, so with that being said, today I was talking to Mario Nafal on a podcast and he was asking me a question and I, he says, so, you know, what is the issue with you and Tucker? And what's the issue with this? I'm like, look, there is no issue. Here's the thing that I have. My question is, what is your portfolio of paranoia? Okay? And which countries are you most paranoid to? Let me explain what I mean by this, and then I want you to write down your portfolio of paranoia. So think about if you have a million dollars to invest, you'll say, I'll put $250,000 in gold, $250,000 in Bitcoin, $100,000 in small-cap funds, $400,000 in, you know, large-cap, whatever. The same way you diversify. Both of you were in the CIA.

• 6:17Speaker 02

  I'm gonna give you four countries to be paranoid about. Which of them would you give the biggest percentage, all the way to the smallest? So think about it. You have a round, like a, literally, it's gonna look like a pie chart. And you put the names in there, okay? So you have these four categories. You have Islam. So within Islam, we have IRGC, Qatar, just include all of them. We have Israel, because you know, Israel is also coming up a lot of different places. Then we have China and we have Russia. Where does your paranoia lie the most for the next 10 years with these four different countries, as well as Islam? I'll give you a minute to draw it up.

• 6:56Speaker 03

  Is it jumping up on here for us?

• 6:58Speaker 02

  You see?

• 6:59Speaker 03

  I see, I got it.

• 6:59Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 7:00Speaker 03

  Okay, so we just rank them in order?

• 7:02Speaker 02

  Just rank them in order and give like 45% would be Islam, you know, 25 would be this.

• 7:16Speaker 00

  All right. China, Islam.

• 7:18Speaker 02

  China, Islam, Israel, and Russia.

• 7:25Speaker 02

  What should be, be most paranoid about?

• 7:31Speaker 02

  Maybe you're gonna be like 25, 25, 25, kind of a boring portfolio. Maybe you're gonna go 90 in one and fully paranoid. You know, maybe it's a, you know, 40, 40, 10, 10. I don't wanna mess with you. You pick and choose. Do you have yours?

• 7:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:47Speaker 02

  All right, let me see what you have on your side. Okay?

• 7:54Speaker 02

  Really? Interesting. Let me see yours. Okay, would you mind showing to the audience so they know, and then I'll give you your answer? You can start off first.

• 8:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, so China takes the massive chunk of pie for me. And now we're talking about paranoia, not money.

• 8:09Speaker 02

  Purely paranoia. We'll get to money as well. Purely paranoia.

• 8:12Speaker 00

  China takes it. China is the number one strategic threat to the United States.

• 8:15Speaker 02

  What did you put on China?

• 8:16Speaker 00

  50%.

• 8:17Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 8:18Speaker 00

  It's the number one strategic threat to the West. It is the thing that will end democracy everywhere in the world. Islam, I gave 5%. I'm not worried about Islam. There are other countries that need to worry about Islam, but we're not one of them. Russia, I gave 20%, mainly because of the threat that it kind of constantly.

• 8:37Speaker 00

  Sends to Europe and how dependent Europe is on us. And then Israel, I gave 25%. So I am actually saying we should be more paranoid of Israel than Russia.

• 8:46Speaker 02

  And Islam, five times Islam.

• 8:48Speaker 00

  Five times.

• 8:48Speaker 02

  I actually love that because hers is different. Go for it.

• 8:51Speaker 03

  Yep, same reason for China. Obviously, they want a world that we are one of their subjects in, not really equal partners. But that's 40%. Islam, 30% because I think we've seen the greatest kind of successes of terrorists in the last few years. After the fall of Afghanistan, the fall of Syria, potentially soon the fall of Mogadishu. And then obviously likely we'll have the fall of Mali. So they're starting to feel, hey, the caliphate's coming back. You know, they're aligned with Qatar and Turkey on that plan. So very, very dangerous besides Bin Laden's four sons planning an attack here.

• 9:31Speaker 03

  Russia, 30% because Russia is always playing the game and Russia will play with any enemy we have. And they don't care. They play dirty and we can never underestimate them. Israel, I don't lose any sleep over Israel. They're the tiniest country in the world. And if they ever became a problem, we could bomb them to oblivion in five minutes. So I don't know why anyone loses sleep over them. But those are my numbers.

• 9:53Speaker 02

  I actually love that. So let's do this. Since China and Russia, you guys both agree on 50 and 40, let's cross that one out.

• 10:00Speaker 00

  Within 10%.

• 10:01Speaker 02

  Within 10%. And since Russia, you're within the same, which is 20 to 30, within 10% will cross that one out. Let's start off with Islam first and then we'll go to Israel. Why did you put Islam, the lowest out of all of them at 5% and then you at 30? Will you go first?

• 10:15Speaker 00

  I don't see Islam, I don't see Islam as a threat to the United States. And that's what I was seeing it as paranoid to me, right? What am I paranoid? It's not Islam. Islam is so, it's, it's difficult for them to reach us with any significance. When they reach us, it's difficult for them to bypass our security systems, whether they're cybersecurity systems, police systems, border security systems, et cetera. They pose a real threat to our allies who are much less sophisticated in their, in their defense and national security sector, but not to us. Meanwhile, Israel actually has the ability to drag us into all sorts of shit that actually does impact us. We are all paying more money for oil right now because of Israel.

• 10:55Speaker 00

  We are all suffering under an international outcry against American leadership because of Israel. The whole world questions whether or not the president of the United States is even making his own decisions or whether he's the puppet of Israel. So, so Israel has an incredible ability to, to frustrate and, and put us in quagmire that Islam just doesn't have.

• 11:17Speaker 02

  Okay, so what's the worst thing that Israel could do to us? Go a little further. So because you put 25%. That's a real threat. You put a bigger than Russia on Islam. So what are some things they could do to us?

• 11:27Speaker 00

  So I, I'm not worried about Israel sending a bomb into New York. If that's what you're worried about, we're worried about different things. Israel, Israel could easily launch a false flag operation that sends us into a war. They can have an Israeli who poses as a Palestinian, who goes in and causes some kind of crazy shit in Syria. And now all of a sudden, the entire United States is engaged in Syria because of something that Israel set up as a false flag. And that is something that the Mossad does all the time. They do it very well, very eloquently. They already selectively share intelligence with the United States. And the reason you selectively tell and share intelligence is to create the opportunity for misdirection or malintent.

• 12:10Speaker 00

  So Israel's already involved in these kinds of operations at a very high success rate. That's what I'm concerned about. I'm concerned about them backstabbing the United States. I'm concerned about them undermining our national interest. I'm concerned about them choosing, like they did with Iran, to escalate rhetoric about a certain issue that's more important to them than it is to us. That then goes on to affect us.

• 12:34Speaker 02

  Okay, perfect. So then the infiltration of Islam, some say to EU and what's happening to a lot of those countries, UK, you know, Germany, you're seeing it all over the place. And to the point where documentary, I mean Rupert Lowe did a paper, the 250,000, you know, stories of girls being raped in UK, 87% being Pakistanis and Muslims. And then seeing what's going on in US right now with New York City, Mhamdani wins, history, individuals that also won. So that's not going into the financial capital of, of the world in the States. Do you have any concern of them, they're infiltrating the United States in the future?

• 13:10Speaker 00

  So here, this is another thing I think, I think is very interesting, right? Islam is the only thing on this list that's not a nation state.

• 13:16Speaker 02

  It is.

• 13:17Speaker 00

  It's a religion.

• 13:18Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 13:19Speaker 00

  I'm not worried about a religion. I'm worried about people and people identify sometimes as a religion. But it's interesting to me that we're actually weighing nation state threats against religious threats. So when we talk about Islamic people in New York, I don't see them as a threat just because of what they believe. That goes against American values. I see threats as nation states and transnational threats that self-identify, that self-identify like Al Qaeda, right? So I don't see Islam and Islamic people.

• 13:51Speaker 02

  And if you, but if you notice, I put it as consider it being IRGC, which is all the proxies. And consider Qatar, which Qatar is funding a lot of different things in the States. If we were to qualify that way, would your opinion change?

• 14:05Speaker 00

  Possibly, I think it would change in how the number breaks down based on what we qualify. But I say all that because Islam and Islamic extremism poses a larger threat to our allies than it does to us. We might be the ultimate target, but they've got multiple lily pads they have to hop through before they get to us.

• 14:24Speaker 02

  Got it. So you're not worried about it right now? Okay, Sarah, how about yourself?

• 14:29Speaker 03

  So the way I look at it is we're talking about Islamist, there's two pieces of it, right? There's the Islamist with the gun and then the political Islamist and they're both a threat. So the Islamist with a gun, a bunch of them came over the border in the last four years. So according to the National Counterterrorism Center, 18,000 known Islamist terrorists are here illegally. So that's just the ones illegally. Why are you coming to the United States if you're a member of ISIS? You're not coming here to raise a family. You're coming here to harm the United States. On the other side, when we talk about the Muslim Brotherhood, they are working in local communities, not just in Europe, but in here, working at like the Chamber of Commerce level, working in business associations.

• 15:11Speaker 03

  And they are doing influence operations. We all know they've been doing it in our universities for years, like China. And they do have an intent to merge the two, right? There'll be attacks and there are hopes to get kind of more of a leaning towards where people will be more understanding of a caliphate. Now, when anyone looks at the caliphate plan, US being taken over so far ahead of it, even the terrorists, that's like 50 years out. But when they talk about bringing back the caliphate, a lot of people view that as, oh, that's like eons ago. But the Ottoman Empire ended in our grandparents' generation, right?

• 15:52Speaker 03

  So the terrorists aren't believing in some idea that was thousands of years ago. They were believing in something from like the 1940s. So, and they're seeing it come back into play and the power of it. I mean, the Taliban is getting recognized. I mean, Al Qaeda's running Syria, et cetera. Qatar's always at the table. So they're seeing we're making this power move and it really is bringing them back around. And they're getting into a phase where they feel they have momentum. And that's what makes them dangerous because they feel strong and they think we're weak. A lot of people say, oh, Iran feels like they're up against the ropes now. They don't feel that way at all. They feel they're going to walk away with a victory.

• 16:34Speaker 03

  It doesn't matter if we killed 200 people or 250 people or bombed. They think at the end of the deal, they're going to sell it as a victory and every, all these Islamists are preparing for that. So it is a game that they play in the way they view the world. It's not the way we view the world, but they think they're winning and that's a threat.

• 16:54Speaker 02

  Let me ask you, did a part of your career as a CIA target or working in Iran? Because you said part of it was you were dealing with Iran, right? Did that kind of influence your decision to score that that high?

• 17:04Speaker 03

  Well, not exactly. So I did work the external operations, so 400 and 900. Now I work unit 840 in my free time. My decision's based on the fact that Bin Laden's sons have a plan kind of bigger than 9/11. And I saw the costs imposed on us by 9/11. And that was only by, you know, a small number of guys and this attack's a lot bigger. And so I know what Al Qaeda is going to drag us into. And that's what makes me concerned. Even when we went into Iraq, then Al Qaeda came in and flooded. And that's what kept it going, right? They kept it going in Afghanistan. So I'm worried that the terrorists is who's going to pull us into anything. I'm not worried about Israel.

• 17:49Speaker 03

  Al Qaeda and ISIS can attack all day long. They have the capabilities, they have the bodies, they have the training. And that's where we waste all of our money is on the operations against terrorists. And we're going to go through a whole nother 20, 30 years of it. You know, I believe after this attack by Bin Laden's sons.

• 18:08Speaker 02

  Okay, so do you have any speculation of what Bin Laden's sons could possibly do if they were to attack? How would they do it?

• 18:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, I know pieces of the plot. So how the plot is, it's going to, how they planned it. Remember, anything's aspirational with terrorists. You can thwart it tomorrow and this all fails. The way they plotted is we're going to bring past failures to fruition. So one of the biggest pieces is there's a plot called Bojinka from 30 years ago. And that was what happened. Do you remember Ramzi Youssef from the first World Trade Center? He had an electric fire in his house. He was in the, in Asia, the cops came, they found these plans and they thwarted this within two weeks. This was to take down about a dozen airliners over the Trans-Pacific. So they're going to bring that plot back to life.

• 18:58Speaker 03

  And it's to take down 12 airliners over US soil. So they're using the same bomb maker from the time. His name's Yazid Sufa. He was released in 2022 and he went back to Afghanistan. So he's making the bomb. And that's the biggest piece of the plot. But what they changed this time is suicide bombers are going to detonate in their seats. So there's not going to be any Americans that can stop them in the odd ways, you know, as they're trying to rush a cockpit. They'll just blow up in their seats. So that's the biggest piece. And then they have a piece that's, I call it like a siege on Washington DC. It's very similar to the Mumbai attacks. And that is targeting like the Capitol, the FBI building.

• 19:38Speaker 03

  And then the last phase of the plot is actually ISIS is taking it over and it's going into like hometowns. They seem to mostly be focused on veteran communities. And it's just mass casualty, kind of where people live, work and play, but not large towns, kind of like mid-level cities. So that's. The main plan, how they have it currently laid out, and they've been sending terrorists here since late 2021, but the biggest influx came in 2022 and 2023. So they're here, ready, they've been casing. So it's actually a very big plot. Their goal is three times the deaths of 9/11. That's what they're shooting for.

• 20:18Speaker 02

  So 10K plus.

• 20:19Speaker 03

  So the aviation plot alone, they want to do 4,000.

• 20:22Speaker 02

  Got it. Okay. So I want to come back to on Israel, but let's stay on this. Do you agree with what she has to say? Do you have a rebuttal? Okay, please go for it.

• 20:29Speaker 00

  I don't, I don't, I'm very confused by a lot of what you're talking about. How do you define caliphate?

• 20:35Speaker 03

  So the, well, the, I'm talking about the terrorist caliphate plan.

• 20:40Speaker 00

  So the only caliphate I ever heard about is a Shia caliphate. The only caliphate anybody's trying to bring back is a Shia caliphate.

• 20:46Speaker 03

  No, they're trying to bring back the Ottoman Empire concept, but actually the caliphate like Al Qaeda and ISIS think about, that's basically all across North Africa is the biggest piece of it.

• 20:58Speaker 00

  But one of those is a Sunni organization, one of those is a Shia organization.

• 21:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're working together.

• 21:01Speaker 00

  Which is.

• 21:03Speaker 03

  Remember Iran.

• 21:05Speaker 00

  On its own, a ludicrous.

• 21:06Speaker 03

  No, Iran kept Saif al-Assad safe for years. He's had Bin Laden's kids in this country for years. They have very, very close relationships. Iran has people right now, they actually have intel bases in Afghanistan. So to think Shia and Sunni don't work together is not true at all.

• 21:21Speaker 00

  To, to think that they work together in a coordinated enough fashion to accomplish something that neither one of them has been able to accomplish by bringing back old plans that are not only already thwarted, but so publicly known that we're sharing them in a podcast right now? Like, you really think that that's what they're putting their time and effort into? 9/11 was executed so effectively that even CIA and FBI didn't have a full picture of the plot.

• 21:46Speaker 03

  Yeah. The US government has not found one of these bombs yet for the airliners. So Al Qaeda is successful. It hasn't been thwarted.

• 21:53Speaker 00

  I just, it, it seems like a huge amount of claims with, with very little evidence to back it up.

• 21:59Speaker 03

  There's plenty of evidence, and there's plenty of evidence over time of Sunni and Shia working together. For example, during the second Libyan civil war, Al Qaeda fought, ISIS fought, and Hamas fought, all in Benghazi on the same side.

• 22:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, they all fought in the same side for a shared common interest.

• 22:14Speaker 03

  Yeah. How can you say.

• 22:16Speaker 00

  But they still lost. They still lost the Syrian civil war.

• 22:18Speaker 03

  I never said they're gonna win. I said this is aspirational, and they're focused on their caliphate plan. They think they're winning.

• 22:24Speaker 00

  A joint caliphate.

• 22:25Speaker 03

  Yes. Islamist.

• 22:29Speaker 02

  You have doubts.

• 22:30Speaker 00

  I have insane doubts.

• 22:31Speaker 02

  You don't think it's worth being paranoid, even a percent to consider that?

• 22:35Speaker 00

  I mean, would I say 5%? I think a few percent. But right now, everything Sarah's laying out is so far below the threshold of what warrants our attention, right? It's what you're laying out doesn't affect our stock market, it doesn't affect the lives. When it happens, the percentage will go up. But where it is right now.

• 22:56Speaker 02

  You're saying after it happens?

• 22:58Speaker 00

  Even when we have some kind of reasonable threat that is coming from multiple sources besides, you're the only person I've ever heard this from. I lived and worked in the Middle East.

• 23:08Speaker 03

  I'm not the only one talking about Al Qaeda's homeland plot, that's for sure.

• 23:10Speaker 00

  You, you may not be the only one talking about it. You're the first person that has presented me with information that is completely contradictory to what experience and information has led me to believe.

• 23:22Speaker 03

  Okay, well, I don't believe that. I've seen Sunni and Shia work together.

• 23:25Speaker 00

  I believe that you don't believe it.

• 23:26Speaker 03

  There's monthly meetings right now with IRGC, Quds Force, Al Qaeda, Taliban.

• 23:32Speaker 00

  And there are people who swear they saw aliens, and they will tell you to their face. And other people have said they also saw aliens, therefore.

• 23:37Speaker 03

  Are you a terrorism expert?

• 23:39Speaker 00

  Aliens must be true. I'm not claiming to be.

• 23:40Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 23:41Speaker 00

  But I am, I am claiming to question your conclusion.

• 23:44Speaker 03

  Right, that's fine with me.

• 23:45Speaker 02

  And by the way, in your, as a targeter, were you a terrorism expert? That was your specialty.

• 23:49Speaker 03

  Yes, it was. And it was Pakistan, Afghanistan, and that's where the current plot's coming from. It's actually been.

• 23:54Speaker 02

  Got it.

• 23:55Speaker 03

  Coming from Al-Froot Campus in Kandahar, Afghanistan. It's a very famous camp. They rebuilt it in 2022.

• 24:00Speaker 02

  Okay, this is great. I, I, I'm loving this because the audience is winning right now to, to see the different perspectives. Let's go to Israel now. Some people may watch it, Sarah, and they may say, you put Israel at zero? Are you kidding me? Look what they're doing with politicians in America. Look what they dragged us into a war. You know, even Marco Rubio said they, you know, they, they got us to get into it, and this is why we're going into war. There, there's a lot of, of messaging about what Israel is and their popular, popularity right now, message wise. People don't trust them right now.

• 24:30Speaker 00

  The president has put value in Israel. And you don't hear the president's talking about ISIS.

• 24:35Speaker 02

  I want to hear your thoughts, and then I want to come to you. I want, I want to go to that. So why did you put Israel at zero?

• 24:38Speaker 03

  The president talks about ISIS. The president just bombed a senior leader of ISIS on the 19th. He was the head of ISIS in Aleppo. So the president is talking about ISIS, just maybe behind closed doors, but he is bombing them. So don't act like President Trump isn't focused on ISIS, because he is. Just, Israel takes all the attention and the clicks and the focus. So I think Qatar and the Muslim Brotherhood have the biggest influence and the most concerning influence. I believe if anybody is having their arm twisted by Israel, they're too weak to be in their position. That's my opinion.

• 25:13Speaker 02

  Tell me more.

• 25:14Speaker 03

  Just because I don't think Israel has, he, they don't have a big stick. There's nothing they can hold, um, over your head. Like, when you're negotiating with them, they don't have a ton to bring to the table. They barely can deal with their own threats. So they're not going to come to me and negotiate with me and win I feel if I'm a senior leader in the US government and in the military. So for anyone to say, oh, we did this because Israel talked us into it, or Israel forced us into it, it's like, who are you? And you should be fired, right? That's, that's how I think. I just, I've worked in this field for a long time and never once have I had, like, Israel twist my arm. I mean, I found that a little foolish. It's almost like the movies.

• 25:56Speaker 04

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPac.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 26:26Speaker 05

  This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up require compatibility and availability varies 18 plus.

• 26:50Speaker 06

  USAA knows dynamic duos can save the day, like superheroes and sidekicks, or auto and home insurance. With USAA, you can bundle your auto and home and save up to 10%. Tap the banner to learn more and get a quote at usaa.com/bundle. Restrictions apply.

• 27:06Speaker 07

  If high-interest credit card debt is keeping you up at night, you're not alone. Interest rates as high as 21% APR can do that to you. Rocket Mortgage can help. A home equity loan from Rocket Mortgage could cut your interest rate by more than half, so you could wipe out your high-interest credit card debt without touching your current mortgage rate. See how much you could save at rocketmortgage.com. Rocket Mortgage LLC, licensed in 50 states. NMLS ConsumerAccess.org number 3030. Call 8004ROCKET for full program details.

• 27:37Speaker 02

  Here we go, Mr. 25% Israel.

• 27:41Speaker 00

  Israel has the second most capable military in the world. That's a big fucking stick. They have nuclear weapons. They have nuclear weapons. That's a big fucking stick. They have the Jewish diaspora and huge amounts of wealth. That's a big stick. They, they manage 20% of trade with the United States. That's a gigantic stick. I don't know how you think Israel doesn't have a big stick. And that's before we even get into the political leverage that they have, not to mention the regional power that they possess against countries like Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, UAE. Other American allies simply cannot bring the military skill, the military capacity, the military talent, or the intelligence

• 28:22Speaker 00

  capability that Israel can bring. They are one of the biggest sticks in the fucking world. And they're backed by us, which is the biggest stick in the world.

• 28:31Speaker 03

  Israel's good in a couple countries, and that's what their intelligence is good on, and then their intelligence sucks everywhere else.

• 28:38Speaker 00

  I don't disagree. It's because they only focus on the countries that are an active threat to them, because we shelter them from everything else.

• 28:44Speaker 03

  So, but that's what I'm saying. They have no benefit.

• 28:46Speaker 00

  And they shelter us from the countries that we don't have any intel.

• 28:49Speaker 03

  I just, I really don't think Israel is protecting us from the rest of the world. I just think, I'm sorry, Israel isn't as powerful as people make them to be. I've never seemed to be powerful.

• 28:59Speaker 00

  You live in a fantasy land.

• 29:01Speaker 03

  No, people want to talk about them all the time because that's kind of like the new thing. But at the end of the day, I'm not going to wake up tomorrow morning and Israel's bombing my city. I'm not.

• 29:14Speaker 00

  If that's what you're concerned about, you have an incredibly narrow focus.

• 29:16Speaker 03

  No, I'm just saying that they're not a threat to us in any way.

• 29:19Speaker 00

  It was Israel's actions that have us in the straits that we are in. The literal fucking straits of Hormuz.

• 29:25Speaker 03

  Iran attacking on October 7th with Hamas, killing over 30 Americans and taking a dozen more Americans hostages. Why we're in the mess we are in. It's the fault of the terrorists.

• 29:37Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 29:38Speaker 03

  Like, they dragged us into another conflict.

• 29:41Speaker 00

  It is a shared, it is a shared responsibility. It is a shared responsibility. Lots of bad calls on both sides. Yeah, but I'm not, it's, it's silly to think that Israel doesn't pose any threats to the United States.

• 29:54Speaker 03

  Okay, so the terrorists didn't drag any of us into that situation.

• 29:56Speaker 00

  I said it's a shared fucking responsibility. Sarah, do you listen? Do you listen? Or do you only focus on what you think?

• 30:01Speaker 03

  I'm just trying to hear your answer, because you're not saying the terrorists had any responsibility.

• 30:06Speaker 00

  I said a shared responsibility.

• 30:08Speaker 03

  Of who?

• 30:09Speaker 00

  And, and when you say the terrorists, I'm not exactly sure if you're talking about the Islamic revolutionaries, or whether you're talking about terrorists that have a political agenda, or whether you're talking about the terrorists that cross a border and haven't actually carried out any terrorist act.

• 30:22Speaker 03

  I'm talking about the 8,000 terrorists who killed people on October 7th, including killing Americans. Pretty simple.

• 30:28Speaker 02

  Why, why don't we do this? Because when I asked her about Islam and, and how they can attack on Osama bin Laden's sons, she broke it down. For you, what is your threat with Israel long-term? How can they cause any kind of chaos in the States? Give me different versions of it.

• 30:44Speaker 00

  So if you stick to kind of the core idea of what a terrorist is, and there's a definition for terrorism. Terrorists are people who carry out violent acts with the intention of driving political change. That's if they're not, if they're carrying out a violent act and it's not geared towards political change, arguably, they can't be labeled a terrorist. So when you think about what they can do in the United States, they can do lots of things to try to take out, to try to exercise some sort of political agenda, blowing up public targets. Everything you listed is basically some sort of civilian targets, civilian airliners, civilian buildings, marching on Washington DC, right? That type of, if there's violence intended to drive a political change because they

• 31:27Speaker 00

  want Americans out of the Middle East, that's why Osama bin Laden created Al Qaeda, was to get Americans out of the Middle East. If that's their agenda and that's their goal, by all means, they can do it. But whenever you carry out a war, when we go to war against the IRGC, the IRGC isn't a terrorist organization. They're a militant group.

• 31:46Speaker 02

  But break that down from the Israel standpoint. So you put 25% Israel threat and you're paranoid about that. What are different things that they can do to harm us?

• 31:54Speaker 00

  Israel can hack into our cyber systems, they can hack into our core water, power grid, you, you name it. I mean, China can, China has hacked into our personnel records for the military. Israel is far more capable than China is in terms of cyber capability. They learn their cyber capability from us, they can rent their cyber capability from Russia. So when we talk about cyber attacks, space-based attacks, when we talk about influence campaigns, propaganda campaigns, the top of the list of capability is Israel. It's not all strapping bombs and flying in planes, it's much more sophisticated, it's sophisticated enough that they can cross a border into an enemy country and launch drones, right?

• 32:37Speaker 00

  We underestimate Israel's capability constantly. I don't know how many times you have to see pagers blow up before you realize Israel's far more capable than we believe they are.

• 32:45Speaker 02

  Do you see them as an ally?

• 32:47Speaker 00

  I see them as a country that is out for their own best national interests, and when you align with that, you're on their good side, and when you don't align with that, you're not.

• 32:56Speaker 02

  Is it specific to Bibi or Israel, period?

• 32:58Speaker 00

  I think it's both, but Bibi has taken it to the next level because of the corruption issues that he's also stuck in. So in many ways, I don't blame Netanyahu for the decisions that he's been making, because he's, he is taking actions that are putting Israel in a safer position for the next two to three decades. He is still creating new enemies that they will have to deal with three decades from now, but he's working hard to try to make a series of successes so powerful that whenever he finally has to face the corruption charges, the country says, yeah, but look how safe he made us for the next 20 years.

• 33:32Speaker 02

  Sarah, do you agree?

• 33:34Speaker 03

  Well, I agree. Every country is in it for their best interests. If I am negotiating for the United States, I only care about my interests. Of course, Israel's in it for their best interest, Qatar's in it for their best interest. Why would you not be, that be your number one goal? Actually, you make a mess when you are like, oh, you know, let's play nice. No, everyone's in it for their best interest. So to say that that is a reason that's a problem, I just don't see, I still don't understand the threat from Israel, even if we say influence operations. I do think China, North Korea, and Russia are just as capable of influence operations in Israel, so why is Israel...

• 34:13Speaker 00

  You think North Korea is as capable as Israel?

• 34:15Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 34:16Speaker 00

  I am gonna need more lagavulin.

• 34:18Speaker 03

  They are.

• 34:19Speaker 00

  Whoever's pouring that.

• 34:20Speaker 03

  They are.

• 34:21Speaker 02

  We'll get it for you.

• 34:22Speaker 03

  They do influence operations. Now, depends on what they want to target, but to say Israel's not targeting us, per se, in a way of like you, like they can do cyber attacks on us, is Israel cyber attacking us, is that their plan?

• 34:35Speaker 00

  If they are, they're sophisticated enough that we wouldn't know.

• 34:37Speaker 03

  So they're, they're ruining our water supply.

• 34:40Speaker 00

  If they wanted to, we wouldn't know.

• 34:42Speaker 03

  So can other countries.

• 34:43Speaker 00

  But they're not as sophisticated, this is why you can, this is how we catch...

• 34:47Speaker 03

  You don't have to be very sophisticated to affect the water supply in the United States of how bad our system is.

• 34:52Speaker 00

  Even, even better, back up my point some more, please, but my, but...

• 34:55Speaker 03

  But Israel's not targeting it.

• 34:57Speaker 00

  We see, we see certain countries operate, we know certain countries operate in a specific way. Israel's one of those countries that's very difficult for us to track. There are multiple intelligence surveys out there that talk about how Israel cannot be trusted as an ally, to the extent that, say, France, or Italy, or Germany can be. They have to be constantly put at arm's length because they have so much capability that they have been trained, given, granted, in partnership with us, with so few direct threats. So they can focus their resources and focus their assets on a handful of direct threats where the United States, being the only world superpower, has to diversify and adjust for every threat in the world.

• 35:41Speaker 03

  Well, we don't have to adjust for every threat in the world, we have plenty of partners who focus on certain threats per region and give us that information. That's why we have such a good relationship with Israel. And you know that.

• 35:53Speaker 00

  We don't have...

• 35:54Speaker 03

  But I'm talking about the information sharing. We can't pretend that doesn't, we can't pretend there's no information sharing.

• 36:00Speaker 00

  Just look at the Iran issue to see how good a relationship we have with Israel. I mean, look at the, look at what we have right now between constant consternation and changes in policy, and even, even this promised ceasefire doesn't actually deliver what it was supposed to deliver, right?

• 36:17Speaker 03

  Let's talk about Iran for a minute. So we hit all those nuclear facilities, we hit all those IRGC commands very accurately with good targeting. Do you think that was all CIA and US militaries intel that put those missiles on the X?

• 36:34Speaker 00

  We didn't hit them, for the most part, Israel hit them.

• 36:36Speaker 03

  Right.

• 36:37Speaker 00

  We didn't hit the Ayatollah, Israel hit the Ayatollah.

• 36:39Speaker 03

  Even the stuff we hit, the targeting was good because of the information sharing.

• 36:43Speaker 00

  Absolutely.

• 36:44Speaker 03

  We can't say that that, so we can't say there's no relationship with Iran when they are good...

• 36:48Speaker 00

  I didn't say there's no relationship, where are you listening?

• 36:49Speaker 03

  No, I'm saying in Iran, when most of the best targets we hit was based on good intelligence...

• 36:56Speaker 00

  Israeli, Israeli intelligence, and it serves Israel.

• 36:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, so we can't say that's not real, but it also served us because we were also putting our military at risk.

• 37:03Speaker 00

  No, it didn't serve us, because look at where we are right now.

• 37:04Speaker 03

  Our military was, they are doing operations and they were at risk, and they have to rely on good, accurate, sound information, and they were giving it, and it has kept a lot of American troops safe.

• 37:15Speaker 02

  So is it fair to say you long-term are not worried about IRGC?

• 37:18Speaker 00

  Long-term, I'm not worried about IRGC.

• 37:20Speaker 02

  You're not worried about their proxies, Hezbollah, Houthis, you know, what they're gonna be doing?

• 37:24Speaker 00

  Not at this point, not, not compared to the other things that we have to wrestle with right now, no. There's always current threats, emerging threats, growing threats, falling threats. Iran, IRGC, all of that does not qualify as anything more than a distant threat to the United States.

• 37:40Speaker 02

  Let's go to the next game, if you want to grab your iPads, this is the next game that we're playing. Okay, so if you want to erase whatever you have, we'll go to the next one. The next one is the following. You have a billion dollars, okay? You have a billion dollars to buy propaganda in America. Whether you're China, Qatar, whether you're whoever, with a billion dollars that you have, how do you spend that billion dollars? Do you spend that billion dollars on media? Do you spend that billion dollars on education, universities, winning over kids? Do you spend that billion dollars buying over congressmen and politicians and senators? Do you spend that billion dollars on buying influencers on social media, on X? How would you spend that billion dollars of propaganda?

• 38:24Speaker 02

  You can choose any country you're a part of, Israel, Qatar, China, Russia, doesn't matter, you have a billion-dollar budget, that's your assignment, how do you spend that billion dollars?

• 38:34Speaker 00

  How fast do we want to create the change in influence?

• 38:36Speaker 02

  We got a decade.

• 38:38Speaker 00

  We got 10 years to do it.

• 38:39Speaker 02

  We got 10 years that we want to buy the influence.

• 38:40Speaker 03

  And we can only put it in a one category or any of those?

• 38:42Speaker 02

  You can put it in any category, just like the previous one, you can choose, and by the way, I gave you four of them, but you can add additional things you want to it. I'll remind you one more time, one of them is media, mainstream, the other one is influencers, social media, because you know, gamers, streamers, a lot of that's going on right now. The other one is universities and colleges, that you can win over influence of what they're teaching in the schools. And then the last one that I had was buying a politician, senators, you know, like some of these organizations are doing. But you can put others as well, you got a billion dollars, I'll give you a minute. You got yours?

• 39:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. You can't really read mine because it's not fat anymore.

• 39:19Speaker 02

  Okay. So, and if you want to go first, I'll come to you first.

• 39:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, at least it was readable, at least.

• 39:27Speaker 00

  Barely, right? So I've got a quarter million dollars going into influencers, and a big part of that is because influencers aren't that expensive to buy, especially not when you're looking for small grassroots influencers. They don't all, they get expensive as they get big, but you can go a little bit, you can go a long way with a little bit on influencers, and that's what pretty much every protein company will tell you. And then I've got $500 million going into mainstream media. And that is because mainstream media will, there will always be some mainstream media. Half of the influencers are opening media companies. That's going to become the new mainstream media. And mainstream media will always have the most reach. It will always have a built in sense of authority and credibility and authenticity.

• 40:08Speaker 00

  And mainstream media is something that is oftentimes the subject matter that is then picked up by influencers. So if you want an influencer to talk about some shit, you get it on Fox News and then boom, everybody's talking about it. I'm putting 100 million into politicians because politicians change. They change too often, they're unreliable, they'll take your money and run. And then they'll never claim that they backed you up anyway. So it's, it's a, it's a high risk, high reward proposition. So I would want to limit my investment there. And then I'm putting 150 million into education because education takes time. But the difference is if you capture, if you educate people at the right point in their life, they never forget the lesson. So whether you're targeting young college minds or even young elementary school minds,

• 40:51Speaker 00

  or if you're targeting people just out of the military, you can literally plant a seed that never goes away.

• 40:56Speaker 02

  Very true, very true. How about yourself, sir?

• 40:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, so I did my percentages, so kind of the same concept he had. I put 40% going into colleges because he gave us the 10 year window. And I think if you influence people in their early twenties and 10 years, they're going to start getting those middle management leadership positions and heck in our government, people in their thirties can get senior roles. So I think that's the best bang for my buck. Now, I did put politicians, but I was thinking more the ones that like sit around forever. Like right now, the average age of the US Congress is 64 years old. So there's plenty of old people that will be around for a while. I, I agree the same. I don't think, even though I know there's alternative media, media still has a stronghold. They still have so much control of the stories and what gets put out.

• 41:43Speaker 03

  So I put 25% on them, so 25% on them and the politicians.

• 41:46Speaker 02

  Or mainstream media?

• 41:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, for mainstream media.

• 41:48Speaker 02

  So you're going to put 250 million into mainstream media?

• 41:50Speaker 03

  Yes, whatever the math is. And then influencers, I did 10% because at the end of the day, there are people who are turning to them and listening to them. And some of them do have like real influence. And some of them actually go on to do other things as we've seen a lot of people who I would think a little more influencers role became senior in our government. So we definitely don't want to leave them out because we actually don't know where they're going to be in 10 years, but they're going to go somewhere.

• 42:18Speaker 02

  Okay, so if I look at this influencers, you put 250 million, you put 100 million. Mainstream media put 500 million, you put 250. Politicians, you put 100, you put 250 million. And in education, you put 150 million. You put 400 million on education. So let's target education. Why, why was education your biggest one of 400 million dollars?

• 42:39Speaker 03

  Because I'm looking out the 10 years and I want to target people now who I can maybe get influence first, but then they can get into positions where I can take advantage of them going long term and then over and over again. I don't need to take advantage of them just when they're thirties, but in their forties, they're going to go up higher. When they're fifties, they're going to become more senior and have more influence. So it just seemed like the better bang for my buck if we're thinking 10 years on.

• 43:06Speaker 04

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid and risked 350,000 Virginians healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, thehousemajoritypack.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 43:36Speaker 05

  This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50 page restoration blog or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies 18 plus.

• 44:01Speaker 06

  USAA knows dynamic duos can save the day like superheroes and sidekicks or auto and home insurance. With USAA, you can bundle your auto and home and save up to 10%. Tap the banner to learn more and get a quote at usaa.com/bundle. Restrictions apply.

• 44:16Speaker 07

  If high interest credit card debt is keeping you up at night, you're not alone. Interest rates as high as 21% APR can do that to you. Rocket Mortgage can help. A home equity loan from Rocket Mortgage could cut your interest rate by more than half. So you could wipe out your high interest credit card debt without touching your current mortgage rate. See how much you could save at rocketmortgage.com. Rocket Mortgage LLC licensed in 50 states. NMLS consumeraccess.org number 3030. Call 8004-ROCKET for full program details.

• 44:48Speaker 02

  You only put 150 million?

• 44:49Speaker 00

  Correct.

• 44:50Speaker 02

  Why?

• 44:50Speaker 00

  Because 10 years isn't enough time for education to take.

• 44:52Speaker 02

  How long do you think you need?

• 44:53Speaker 00

  25, 30 years.

• 44:55Speaker 02

  25, 30 years.

• 44:55Speaker 00

  Because I'm not targeting the 20 year old. 20 year olds don't know dick. Like the people in college are too busy chasing ass and getting drunk. They don't actually, they're not really open to the kind of ideas you need them to hold on to when they're in their mid 40s. For that, you need to target somebody that's like 10, nine years old. Think about when extremists really start targeting their youth. You're talking about five, six, seven years old. That's how you create a foundation. Your core years for being influentially or cognitively programmed are between the ages of five and 11. So that's really where you need to put that money. So if we're only looking for 10 years out, my 11 year old is only going to be 21. Not old enough to have a real big impact. But 150 million dollars will change the minds of a lot of 11 year olds.

• 45:38Speaker 02

  Okay, so then if we see what Cutter put into education, which they're the highest, they put 7.7 billion dollars into our universities. I think 1.8 of it, if I'm not mistaken, is in Cornell. Can you pull up the chart on what they put in?

• 45:52Speaker 03

  And remember, it wasn't a law that you had to report the numbers. So this is the basement level.

• 45:59Speaker 02

  So meaning it could be even higher than that?

• 46:00Speaker 03

  It's way, it's probably 10, 15, 20 times higher.

• 46:03Speaker 02

  You're, stop it.

• 46:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, there was no law in place to actually say you receive the money.

• 46:08Speaker 02

  So it could be 60, 70 billion dollars.

• 46:09Speaker 03

  We have no concept at this point.

• 46:11Speaker 02

  So, so if you're saying it's a long term, you need at least 25 years. If Cutter's doing 7.7 billion, China's doing 6.4 billion. What do you think they're solving for within our educational system long term?

• 46:21Speaker 00

  The 25 year point.

• 46:22Speaker 02

  And what is their outcome? What do they want to get into the system?

• 46:25Speaker 00

  The decline of the United States, the belief that other countries are rising and that the United States is stuck on decline. The idea that you'll get better research from China, the idea that you'll have better financial opportunities than UAE. That's, that's what they're trying to change right now.

• 46:39Speaker 02

  Do you agree?

• 46:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think for the most part, I mean, obviously I think there's different opinions. Of course, China wants to keep this belief in the core of, you know, their institutions and that type thing. Cutter, I do think is a little more dangerous when it comes to the thinking because you do get people more into the extreme mindset. So they are different risks. Um, because I do worry a little bit about anytime you indoctrinate people. Now, I understand if I'm a Chinese student, I'm always going to serve my country and my government, even if I live in America and I'm always going to know that and believe that. Um, but I do worry about people you pull to the side that never would have been in those categories.

• 47:23Speaker 03

  And that's what I feel Cutter does a little of successfully and dangerously.

• 47:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's a big number though. When you, when you see, and they came out of nowhere because that number's not that high 15 years ago, 20 years ago. They came out of nowhere and went to first place. So, okay, let's see what, what other one you guys had difference. Influencers, you had 250 million, you had 100 million. Why only 100 million? That was your lowest one.

• 47:43Speaker 03

  So one of the things I've noticed, and he kind of mentioned it, is the fact that the media still has so much control over the narrative. And they still are the ones who can pick up the phone, call the White House, call the CIA, call the, you know, the, the joint staff and really get the inside. So I haven't seen a lot of influencers yet that really can do that. Now, we do have some who definitely can change thinking, outcomes, opinions. I mean, Tucker is kind of one of the ones that really went on his own. Um, and kind of carved that path. But there's been very few people who have done that, in my opinion, to the level of control of mainstream media.

• 48:26Speaker 02

  Got it.

• 48:29Speaker 02

  Thoughts on influencers?

• 48:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 48:31Speaker 02

  Because you put 250 into influencers and you'll hear people saying this guy's getting paid from Russia and then they get exposed.

• 48:37Speaker 00

  John Kerry.

• 48:37Speaker 02

  I wouldn't only, you think Kerry was getting?

• 48:40Speaker 00

  He was. He was an actual pundit for Russia RU News.

• 48:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, he worked for RT.

• 48:45Speaker 02

  But he had a show though, so it's kind of like a, right, but it was pretty public about the fact that he was doing it, right?

• 48:51Speaker 00

  Correct, correct.

• 48:51Speaker 02

  But you'll hear some people that are getting paid from Russia that is not public.

• 48:55Speaker 00

  True.

• 48:55Speaker 02

  Some of that are getting paid. This guy's getting paid from Qatar. He's getting paid the $7,000 from Israel. So you think there is power in paying these influencers today on social media?

• 49:04Speaker 00

  Without a doubt. There's a lot of power in influencers. The challenge is finding the influencers that gets you the outcome that you're looking for. But there is power in influencers and a little bit of money can help you experiment and test with a wide range of influencers to find where you want to focus your primary investment. Think about it this way. What does every influencer use? A call to action.

• 49:24Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 49:25Speaker 00

  What do you never see on mainstream media?

• 49:27Speaker 02

  CTAs.

• 49:27Speaker 00

  You never see it.

• 49:28Speaker 02

  Just commercials.

• 49:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, so, and it's an actual influencer that's like a cult leader that can say, pick up your phone, do this, press this button, buy this thing.

• 49:35Speaker 02

  Right.

• 49:35Speaker 00

  Well, if you really want influence, go, vote for this person, say this thing, write your congressman, like that is what a CTA can do.

• 49:43Speaker 02

  Okay, so I'm gonna go a little bit even deeper. So let's take that $250 million and be a country and tell me who you would want to go to. Actually, name the individuals.

• 49:54Speaker 00

  So that's, that's, that's a difficult one because there are so many people.

• 49:58Speaker 02

  But give me who would be the ones you would go after?

• 49:59Speaker 00

  Micro influencers, right?

• 50:00Speaker 02

  And how much would you give them? I'd be curious.

• 50:02Speaker 00

  So, one of the things I would actually love to do is, is be a country that is anti-American and go after health influencers in the United States. And have those health influencers highlight all the ways the United States is poisoning their food. All the carcinogens in the processed food, all the fluoride in the water, all the additional trans fats and all that stuff that people already believe in, right? Because they already believe in it. So now a little bit of money to feed a whole slew of health influencers when they, you can't swing a dead cat without going over 12 health influencers. You've got people talking about keto, you've got people talking about type 2 diabetes, you've got people talking about whatever.

• 50:41Speaker 00

  You could literally shape millions of people and how they believe and come to trust the FDA if you just target a few health influencers.

• 50:49Speaker 02

  Who else?

• 50:51Speaker 00

  Uh, still taking the anti-American stance? Well, I, I am pretty sure we already see this with the huge amount of political influencers out there that will jump on whatever mainstream media story is coming out.

• 51:04Speaker 02

  Give me names.

• 51:04Speaker 00

  I, I don't follow.

• 51:05Speaker 02

  Okay, so then let me give, do you have names? Would you be able to give names?

• 51:09Speaker 03

  I'm not sure I would pay influencers. I would pick someone maybe in each party that I feel would be worth that much money. So I would probably, if I was Republican, I would target Jared Kushner. If I was a Democrat, I would target Jake Sullivan and see where my money gets me.

• 51:26Speaker 02

  But those would be players. I don't know if I would put those guys as influencers.

• 51:30Speaker 03

  That's why I said they're not, they're not online influencers.

• 51:31Speaker 02

  Very low number here.

• 51:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 51:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're not, you're not, you don't see the social media guys as influential?

• 51:37Speaker 03

  I think they, I do think they have an influence. I don't know how long their influence lasts. Things ebb and flow. It can be very interesting, but you know, I didn't make it zero because they do matter.

• 51:50Speaker 00

  Let me give you just an example of how powerful influencers can be.

• 51:53Speaker 02

  Can you pull up Humberto? I'm trying to see how to go about this. Do we want to go on Spotify? Let's look at the top podcasters on Spotify and names.

• 52:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, we probably have like Joe Rogan.

• 52:03Speaker 02

  And if you go on the Leaders Bulletin, yeah, go to the charts and maybe go to by category of the biggest podcasts. You, you, just go to Spotify Podcast Charts and then say, where would you put your money? So go right there. Where would you put your money?

• 52:16Speaker 00

  I don't think any of those people are really gonna touch you.

• 52:18Speaker 02

  None of those people.

• 52:19Speaker 03

  My boss is number five, so you put me in a bad spot.

• 52:22Speaker 02

  Well, you don't, I'm not telling you to say anything with him, but.

• 52:25Speaker 03

  But I do love podcast number three, Crime Junkie.

• 52:27Speaker 02

  Okay, so where would you put it? Where would you put the money to fool?

• 52:30Speaker 00

  Uh, if we can scroll down to the top, the last 10 on the top 100.

• 52:36Speaker 02

  Why the last 10?

• 52:37Speaker 00

  Because that's where you're gonna get to spread your money. So if you look at Diary of a CEO, there was an article that just came out that says Steve Bartlett makes $38 million alone on just his own channels. Not, not sponsorship, just ad sense on his own channels. And Sean Ryan's in the fifth spot. So I mean, you're talking about people who are making, I put $250 million in there. Five, 25% of that would go to one person.

• 53:01Speaker 02

  So meaning you, you wouldn't put it into those guys? You would go to the bottom and put it into?

• 53:04Speaker 00

  I would go to the hungry sons of bitches at spot 91 who are trying to climb the ranks, who are not being super judicious and who they take money from. And who are happy to put my ad out there three times a week instead of just once a week.

• 53:19Speaker 02

  Do you agree with him?

• 53:20Speaker 03

  I mean, I do agree with him. You have to go for someone who isn't at the point where first they can say no, where they might have some integrity. We're assuming this is a bad country trying to influence.

• 53:31Speaker 02

  By the way, it's, it's China, it's Qatar, it's Israel, it's Russia, it's any of these guys.

• 53:35Speaker 03

  So you need to go after people who, who don't have the opportunity yet to say no. So I agree with him completely on the targeting.

• 53:43Speaker 02

  You guys are both ex-CIA, so do you think CIA knows which one of our major influencers in America are getting paid how much by foreign entities? Do you think they, do you think you know that?

• 53:56Speaker 00

  I don't know.

• 53:57Speaker 03

  I, I think they would only look into it if they thought the person was doing some sort of then influence operation.

• 54:05Speaker 02

  No, but let me ask you, like, would there be a position where, because CIA is what? It's not domestic, right? It's out. Okay, FBI, CIA is out, okay. So if I'm doing, could there, could today's CIA say, hey, Sarah, hey, Andy, this is what I want you to figure out. You're working a project on Qatar. I want you to find out which influencers they're buying in America because these are the seven people we're looking at? Can we dig it up and see if we can find anything? You think, would the CIA have a project like that that you guys would pursue?

• 54:34Speaker 03

  I don't know. I feel that would be something FBI would come up with and then they'd have to hook the CIA in and CIA be like, oh my God, this is such a bad idea.

• 54:41Speaker 00

  I think FBI would have access. I think Treasury would have access. IRS would have access.

• 54:45Speaker 03

  Right.

• 54:46Speaker 00

  Those are the, those are the.

• 54:46Speaker 03

  It's US-led.

• 54:47Speaker 00

  Correct. Those are the organizations that would be able to track down the number and the connections you're talking about.

• 54:52Speaker 02

  And on politician, you put 250 million, but it's your lowest at 100 million. Why is it the lowest?

• 54:56Speaker 00

  Because I don't think politicians are the ones that actually shape our future. I think politicians are people who come in and the party shapes us, but not the politicians themselves. So you'd be putting a lot of money into a politician that's transient.

• 55:08Speaker 03

  In my opinion is they're the ones who put the bills on the table. They're the ones who have to fight to push them. And so that's what I'd want to influence.

• 55:13Speaker 02

  It's very interesting what happened here because on one end you were critical of Israel, you were not, because you didn't see them as a threat for your long term. But here, you're saying put less.

• 55:24Speaker 03

  But as a threat, no, but influence, sure.

• 55:26Speaker 02

  You, you put, you put, you put money to buy propaganda. Lowest for you was politicians. And that's where Israel puts a lot of their money. They get criticized for AIPAC and it's, you, you think that's effective with what they're doing? Because you don't have a lot of it in there.

• 55:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, I don't, I don't know how effective it is. I also don't know if the amount that they put into that is bigger or smaller than the amount of money they put into other things.

• 55:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, so I, I would say that for me, if I had to judiciously steward my billion dollars, I wouldn't be putting it into politicians. Not when we have more people leaving Congress than ever before, more people struggling to pass bills than ever before. Like, it just doesn't seem like a good investment.

• 56:06Speaker 02

  Do you agree?

• 56:07Speaker 03

  I think there's a percentage of Congress who stays there for a long time and they're the power brokers and those who I invest in. I'm not gonna invest in someone who's gonna spend four, eight years there, but it's pretty clear who is going to be there for a while and who, you know, leads the committees. There would be a few I'd focus on, right? Who's running the intelligence committees, who's running like House Foreign Affairs, et cetera.

• 56:28Speaker 02

  Got it. Okay, so both of you have been in this space. You're, you know, a lot of different things you deal with, trying to find intel from different people. What has been your experience of human beings' biggest vulnerability? Like, you know, is it money? Is it fame? Is it, you know, can you convert anybody, no matter how strong of an ideology or conviction they have? What from your experience has been humans' biggest weakness to say, ah, shit, I disagree with this. But you know what? If you give me this, what's been humans', you know, biggest weakness?

• 57:01Speaker 00

  Validation, external validation.

• 57:02Speaker 02

  Tell me more.

• 57:03Speaker 00

  Is, it's universal. Everybody wants to be validated for their thoughts, their opinions, their concerns, their fears, their worries. Where they're putting their money, where they're putting their focus, where they're putting their attention. And a lot of times the fastest way to gain someone's trust and resources and confidence is to simply validate what they're feeling. You don't even have to agree with them. You just validate them. She says she's tired. You can say, I get tired too sometimes and it's, it's fair to be tired right now. It's been a long day. You're trying to negotiate with somebody and he's like, I don't want to be taken to, I don't want to be taken, you know, advantage of. And you're like, I don't want to be taken advantage of either, man. It sucks whenever people take advantage of me. Here's a quick story about how somebody took advantage of me and it sucks. Validate the person and they're like, yeah, you get me. Everybody else in this fucking world doesn't even listen, but you, you listen, you get me.

• 57:49Speaker 02

  Your experience.

• 57:50Speaker 03

  I think the best people sometimes to go after the ones who think they're the best at what they're doing and they think they're the best at their jobs and they think everybody around them is an idiot, not doing well, not moving things forward and they can make it happen and they might be more willing to color outside the lines because they think I'm smarter than them, you know, I can run circles around the people in my office and I do think they're easier to manipulate because there's something in their brain that makes them feel that they can control the entire situation.

• 58:18Speaker 02

  Who's the most difficult? Who are the most difficult people where you're like, dude, this guy's not going to give me any intel? Who are the most difficult people to get any, like you have motives, you have money, you have the girls, hottest girls in the world, you have access to, you can give me fame validation, who are the most difficult people to get anything out of?

• 58:36Speaker 00

  The people who have a childhood bias against you, whatever that might be.

• 58:40Speaker 02

  A childhood bias.

• 58:41Speaker 00

  Childhood bias.

• 58:42Speaker 02

  Unpack that, please.

• 58:43Speaker 00

  So if, if as a kid, they lived in a culture that just didn't trust something about you, your ideology, your religion, your faith, your color, your hometown, your, your baseball team, if they had that bias as a child and they've become an adult, it's very hard for them to un or reprogram that bias. It's much easier to reprogram a bias when somebody develops it when they're older. But when they're a kid, I mean, just think about how many people still carry the same hometown baseball, uh, uh, competition feelings, right? They'll, they'll still get into a brawl at a White Sox game or something, right? Like it's, it's insane what happens when people carry these childhood biases forward.

• 59:26Speaker 02

  What would you say?

• 59:27Speaker 03

  I think it's when someone feels like they were scammed or manipulated into the situation because then it already doesn't feel comfortable from the beginning. They already don't trust you. They don't know what other games you're going to play as you go along. You know, we see a lot of this and like when FBI does those entrapment operations and they pull people in and no intentions of being involved in this and like now you gotta collect this info, you're in the middle of this. And so I do think it's when they feel like, like they are scammed in some way. Cause then it just, how do you fix that?

• 59:56Speaker 02

  Got it. So I, I like the childhood biases.

• 1:00:01Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 1:00:01Speaker 00

  You have them too, man. I'm sure three things, three things are jumping to your brain right now.

• 1:00:04Speaker 02

  I promptly, you're making me think, that's where I'm going, right? And I totally understand where you're coming from, you know, me too. I'm trying to validate you right now to make sure we're going through.

• 1:00:13Speaker 00

  It's working.

• 1:00:15Speaker 02

  So, okay. So, so that's interesting as you're going through. I, I got a business question for you guys before we go to the next game we're going to play here together. Business question. I pulled up numbers on how many military, ex-military officers became Fortune 500 CEOs. Okay. And here's what the number looks like. Ex-military officers, we've had 30 to 5 million, okay? CIA officers, we've had roughly 40,000. Military officers that became Fortune 500 CEOs, roughly 400. Not a single ex CIA officer has ever become a Fortune 500 CEO. Why do you think that is?

• 1:00:53Speaker 03

  One of the things I feel is CIA really does like to be behind the scenes. They like to backbench on things like they might be the one that comes to your company and says, hey, I can get you to think differently, do differently, um, market in a different way. That's kind of their strong suit and I don't think they actually care to lead. Remember they took a job where their name's not out there. They can't say, hey, I captured this big guy or I recruited this Iranian scientist. Like they're used to being kind of in the shadows and I think over time they get comfortable doing that.

• 1:01:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, I, I don't disagree with Sarah. I would say the only thing that's more powerful than the fact that we're all accustomed to being in the shadows is that we're kind of inherently lazy. CIA hires people who have a natural skill, a natural skill in research, a natural skill in manipulation, a natural skill in, in language. They look for people who already have these natural skills and then they give them a place to blossom in the thing that they're already good at. To be a Fortune 500 CEO is fucking hard. Like think about how much you have to learn, how hard you have to work, how much you have to adapt. Like it is an incredible amount of perseverance and, and effort and CIA officers are, are

• 1:02:11Speaker 00

  going to be perfectly happy at being number 1,000 on the list instead of fighting for number five. It's just the way we're wired. We're not wired for that kind of hard work. We're not wired to, to, to pursue that level of success. We're wired to accept a much lower level with a higher probability of success and less risk.

• 1:02:33Speaker 02

  Would you agree with them?

• 1:02:34Speaker 03

  Pieces. Now there is one interesting thing. So my undergrad's in business and then I went into the CIA and the woman who is in charge of my entire director at the CIA, we were sitting there one day and she said, we hire you at the CIA for your strengths. We don't even care if you spend any time in your weaknesses. And of course, when I was in business school, they're like, put all this effort into your weaknesses so you don't have them. So it is the fact they hire you for a certain reason and that's what you're great at, but that doesn't mean you're great at everything across the board when a CEO might have to have a lot more of those skills.

• 1:03:08Speaker 04

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side, but Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid and risked 350,000 Virginians healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com, not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 1:03:39Speaker 05

  This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50 page restoration blog, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies 18 plus.

• 1:04:04Speaker 06

  USAA knows dynamic duos can save the day like superheroes and sidekicks or auto and home insurance. With USAA, you can bundle your auto and home and save up to 10%. Tap the banner to learn more and get a quote at usaa.com slash bundle. Restrictions apply.

• 1:04:19Speaker 07

  Your credit card company is hoping you don't hear this. They're charging you 21% APR interest, making it hard to pay down your balance. A home equity loan from Rocket Mortgage could cut your interest rate by more than half. So you could wipe out your high interest credit card debt with the equity you've built in your home without touching your current mortgage rate. See how much you could save at rocketmortgage.com. Rocket Mortgage LLC licensed in 50 states. NMLS consumeraccess.org number 3030. Call 800 for Rocket for full program details.

• 1:04:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's, it's interesting to say they're lazy. You, you weren't air force before you went CIA. What was harder for you?

• 1:04:58Speaker 03

  He's been down the path for a long time.

• 1:04:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, right. Air force was harder for me.

• 1:05:01Speaker 02

  Air force was, why, why is that?

• 1:05:03Speaker 00

  Cause I had to fit into a structure. I had to do things that I didn't want to do, shine shoes, wear a uniform, shave my face, keep my hair two inches long. So much structure, so much expectation, even when I had an idea, my idea didn't count because I wasn't high enough rank. There were all sorts of these things in the military that just didn't work. I have to parade on Saturday. Why do I have to parade on Saturday? Because that's the day on the calendar and you're like, what the fuck? It doesn't, it's raining on Saturday. Yeah, but that's the day we're going to parade. It just doesn't make any sense.

• 1:05:30Speaker 02

  So is, is a profile of CIA agents, successful ones, they, they need to be left alone, not a lot of structure, not a lot of organization, really?

• 1:05:39Speaker 03

  Let me do my thing. Oh, I would never pass basic training in motorway, but let me do my thing. Let me fail five times. At the end, I will make this happen for you, but leave me the F alone while I do it.

• 1:05:50Speaker 02

  So then let me ask you, does it take a certain type of a director or a leader to know how to lead the personality? Because eventually somebody becomes a director of CIA, right? Eventually somebody rises up and wants the responsibility. How, how do they know how to manage you?

• 1:06:05Speaker 00

  They don't.

• 1:06:06Speaker 02

  Okay, they don't know how to manage you.

• 1:06:08Speaker 00

  So this is a great example because the director of CIA is a politically appointed position.

• 1:06:10Speaker 03

  Yep, very complicated.

• 1:06:12Speaker 00

  Yeah. And the biggest complaint that we have at CIA is that there really isn't a way to climb the ladder without essentially having a rabbi or a godfather who protects you and brings you up with him. It's all about loyalty there. It's not about capability. It's not about skill. It's all about who you know, who you like, and whether or not you're kind of rubbing elbows with the right people. That's what drove a lot of our kind of cadre, our alumni to leave when we all left because we didn't want to play that game. We didn't want to play the game of finding the right rabbi and then going from assignment to assignment with that person, only to then hope that they make it to group chief and that you might make it to deputy group chief. It just, it's not a fun game.

• 1:06:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, the same. I did play the game, but I would just burn a bridge, move on, burn the next bridge. And I luckily had some, um, leaders who pulled me along the way, but at the end of the day, like it's exhausting. So there is nothing like a human resources department in the CIA. So you have to have a good boss.

• 1:07:10Speaker 02

  There's no HR.

• 1:07:12Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:07:13Speaker 02

  So, hey, he flirted with me.

• 1:07:15Speaker 03

  You can do, you can report.

• 1:07:17Speaker 00

  Yeah. And as soon as you do that.

• 1:07:18Speaker 03

  It better be way more than flirting because no one's going to do anything with flirting.

• 1:07:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's like career suicide for one person or the other because it really does. As soon as you say something like that, there is no HR structure. It's just a bunch of government employees trying to cover their ass. So half of the people say, I back you up and half the people say, I back that other person up. And then you just hope that the two people can find some sort of resolution because somebody's going to get fired.

• 1:07:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, so you are focused your entire time on your alliances.

• 1:07:45Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 1:07:46Speaker 03

  You scratch each other's back and you move along together.

• 1:07:49Speaker 00

  There's no leadership at CIA.

• 1:07:51Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:07:51Speaker 00

  That's a big part of, I think, why you see the problems persistently at CIA.

• 1:07:55Speaker 02

  But is that a good thing that there's no leadership or they need leadership?

• 1:07:58Speaker 00

  I would argue that they need leadership.

• 1:08:00Speaker 02

  But if they have leadership, you guys don't want to be led. You want to be left alone.

• 1:08:03Speaker 00

  They need to change their recruiting process also.

• 1:08:06Speaker 02

  Oh, meaning to not recruit lazy people to...

• 1:08:08Speaker 00

  Correct. If you think about it, CIA went through a massive forced transformation after 9/11. Prior to 2001, CIA was like, I mean, the classified, the unclassified number of undercover officers after 2001 is 10,000. And we know that they amplify themselves at least 100-fold. So that would mean that about 1,000 undercover officers were what existed before 9/11. Well, the training curriculum for 1,000 people is completely different than the training curriculum for 10,000 people. And the career advancement process for 1,000 people can be informal, but the career advancement process for 10,000 people has to be formalized. It's a classic business scaling problem. CIA was forced to scale in 2001, but they were not prepared for it operationally.

• 1:08:53Speaker 02

  You agree?

• 1:08:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I, one of the things too is, let's say you brought in 9,000 case officers. You started sending them all to war zones and they never got good at counterintelligence. Well, to be a great CIA case officer, the thing you have to be best at is counterintelligence. So we have 15, 20 years of case officers who are probably like CD level at the skill that they should be A-level at, and then that's a huge problem.

• 1:09:18Speaker 00

  Hmm, okay.

• 1:09:19Speaker 02

  When we set out to create a shoe that blends comfort, function, and luxury, we had the choice to make it fast, we had the choice to make it cheap. We chose neither. Instead, we chose Tuscanyero. We chose true Italian craftsmanship. Each pair touched by 50 skilled hands. We chose patience, spending two years perfecting every detail, and we chose the finest quality at every step. Introducing the Future Looks Bright Collection. Not rushed, not disposable, not ordinary. Rather intentional, luxurious, timeless.

• 1:10:03Speaker 02

  All right, so let's play this game. So here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna give each of you these paddles, okay? One of them says real, one of them says psyop, one of them says conspiracy. The other one says cover-up.

• 1:10:17Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:10:18Speaker 02

  Okay?

• 1:10:19Speaker 03

  A lot of choices.

• 1:10:20Speaker 02

  And I'm gonna give different conspiracies, and you pick and choose.

• 1:10:22Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:10:22Speaker 02

  It's BS, it's psyop, it's this, it's that.

• 1:10:25Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:10:25Speaker 02

  Let's have some fun with this one here. Okay, MKUltra. MKUltra.

• 1:10:35Speaker 02

  What did you put up? Let me see, MK?

• 1:10:36Speaker 03

  It never worked good, by the way, people. That's why it was canceled.

• 1:10:39Speaker 02

  MKUltra.

• 1:10:41Speaker 00

  That we know of.

• 1:10:41Speaker 02

  Both of you are real. Okay, all right.

• 1:10:44Speaker 00

  Documented.

• 1:10:45Speaker 02

  We'll come back to that.

• 1:10:46Speaker 00

  Verifiable.

• 1:10:47Speaker 03

  CIA Army program. People always cut up the Army.

• 1:10:50Speaker 02

  All right, UFOs, aliens, actual aliens, not illegal aliens, aliens.

• 1:10:55Speaker 00

  You mean like living, breathing aliens?

• 1:10:56Speaker 02

  Living aliens. Let me see, what do you have? Real? Both of you real? Okay.

• 1:11:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:11:02Speaker 02

  And you know that for a fact?

• 1:11:03Speaker 00

  No, just statistically, they have to exist. The idea that we're the only intelligent life, yeah.

• 1:11:08Speaker 02

  For you, is it 100% or it's statistic?

• 1:11:10Speaker 03

  For me, it's like a feeling. So there's been a couple of places I've been in the world, especially Montlu Pichu, and how it was built, how it moves with hurricanes. They were doing like brain surgery. I was just like, there had to have been some being that came down and just taught some things. I feel like sometime aliens came to our world, and I think there's little things, you know, around the pyramids, you see a few things. I do feel there's little pieces of evidence.

• 1:11:34Speaker 02

  But not because you know for a fact. That's just pure you as well.

• 1:11:37Speaker 00

  I don't know for a fact.

• 1:11:38Speaker 03

  Have not seen one.

• 1:11:38Speaker 00

  If I had smoking gun fact, I would be so excited.

• 1:11:40Speaker 03

  Aliens, if you want to come and duck me for like 60 days, feel free.

• 1:11:44Speaker 02

  Be careful saying that. Take about two hours before you do so. Let's finish the podcast first. Okay, next one.

• 1:11:50Speaker 03

  I like real world experience.

• 1:11:51Speaker 02

  CIA killed John F. Kennedy.

• 1:11:55Speaker 02

  Come on, CIA.

• 1:11:59Speaker 02

  What do you got?

• 1:12:01Speaker 00

  Split decision.

• 1:12:03Speaker 02

  So you're conspiracy and cover-up, and you have conspiracy. Okay, let's tackle that one. What do you mean? Tell me more.

• 1:12:09Speaker 00

  There, there was a time in CIA's history where it was a totally uncontrollable wild animal, where it could just do whatever the director or the group chiefs or whatever wanted to have done. And there was a very real time when, when nobody was keeping assassinations in check or death efforts in check. And there was also a time when JFK was adamantly opposed to a lot of what CIA was doing. So there's just enough information out there to show that there is some kind of intelligence connection with the JFK killing. But there's not enough information for us to be able to weave it all together. So a cover-up must be happening. Whether that cover-up is an active cover-up

• 1:12:50Speaker 00

  or whether at the time, somebody was smart enough to take all the evidence and burn it, I don't know. But it's somewhere between full-on cover-up and conspiracy.

• 1:13:00Speaker 03

  And I actually do believe it really links in some way to Cuba and even some of their networks here. There is all that chatter. Maybe like a few days before, there was supposed to be an attempt by like, kind of the Cuban mafia in Tampa to take him out. So I do think there is a strong Cuba connection. Now, you know, as Andrew says, every once in a while, you get that rogue CIA officer kind of working both sides. So we can't say that's not 100% there. But I just don't feel like the director of CIA directed it. That's my opinion.

• 1:13:32Speaker 02

  Okay. By the way, when you, when you become a CIA agent, are you guys also becoming one because you also want to get to the bottom of these types of things or not really?

• 1:13:40Speaker 03

  I honestly didn't think about, I didn't actually think I'd go find anything.

• 1:13:44Speaker 00

  All I cared about, all I cared about was getting to do secret shit.

• 1:13:48Speaker 02

  That's it?

• 1:13:48Speaker 00

  That's it.

• 1:13:49Speaker 02

  So it wasn't like, you know, you guys hang out, go to dinner. What do you think happened with this? And what do you think happened with this? Not a lot of that?

• 1:13:54Speaker 03

  No, I wanted to work terrorists in Kashmir, and then I never really worked terrorists in Kashmir. That's what's my goal.

• 1:13:59Speaker 00

  I just wanted to like have a girl in every port.

• 1:14:02Speaker 02

  Okay, so it was intentional. It was intentional. Okay, how about moon landing? Moon landing?

• 1:14:10Speaker 02

  This is a serious one. For some people, it's very important. Both of you say yes. Okay, did you watch the movie?

• 1:14:19Speaker 03

  Oh, it was excellent.

• 1:14:19Speaker 02

  Fly Me to the Moon?

• 1:14:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:14:21Speaker 02

  What'd you think about it?

• 1:14:22Speaker 03

  I thought the movie was done well. It wouldn't surprise me if we did film a backup video, but I do think kind of American exceptionalism, I think we got there. Because it was so competitive against the Russians that if we hadn't, the Russians had infiltrated us and they would have put out the information that we faked it. That's my opinion. Or Soviets.

• 1:14:42Speaker 00

  I don't know enough, but I like what Sarah's saying on this one. She doesn't sound as left field as she sounded other times today.

• 1:14:49Speaker 02

  You know, for 50-plus years...

• 1:14:50Speaker 03

  Never doubt, never.

• 1:14:51Speaker 02

  When was it, by the way? When did we land on the, when did we land on the moon? What is the date? What year? 60, it's under, before the end of the decade is when Kennedy said it, right? What year is it? 69?

• 1:15:04Speaker 00

  Right under the wire.

• 1:15:05Speaker 02

  So what do you say to the people that say, give me a break, guys? There's just no way we landed on the moon. The bottom of the sole of the shoe is different. The boots. If we did, how come we haven't since 69? We have better technology, better everything. You mean to tell me we landed on the moon? What do you say to them?

• 1:15:20Speaker 03

  I don't think...

• 1:15:20Speaker 00

  I think, yeah, go ahead.

• 1:15:21Speaker 03

  I don't think the moon has anything super useful to land back on it and take advantage of it. I think the goal is to go farther. The problem is so many different administrations kept cutting the money, cutting the money, cutting the money. And it actually has diminished our forward leaning into space. That's my opinion.

• 1:15:39Speaker 00

  And, and we landed on Apollo 11, if I'm remembering correctly. And we sent up Apollo 13 to go to the moon, and we had all sorts of issues. So we spent a shit ton of money on Apollo 12 and 13 to not achieve a useless propaganda goal, basically.

• 1:15:55Speaker 03

  And then you get budgets cut, Congress gets involved, and you lose funding, and that's never a good thing.

• 1:16:00Speaker 02

  And then the guy shows up who's worth a trillion dollars and says he wants to build life out there. He wants to build civilization out there, right? So, so who knows? Who knows? Let's go to the next one.

• 1:16:11Speaker 03

  He wants to die on Mars.

• 1:16:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think so. So by the way, if you're watching this, you agree, disagree? They're both on manect. You can actually manect them and ask them any questions that maybe you are watching right now that we haven't covered yet. Next one, Havana Syndrome.

• 1:16:30Speaker 02

  Uh oh. What do we have? Conspiracy? Oh, here we go. Let's have some fun with this one. Tell me why. I'll go to you first. Why is it a conspiracy?

• 1:16:38Speaker 00

  So, there's some very real experiences and very real accounts that people have.

• 1:16:44Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:16:44Speaker 00

  But there's not enough smoking gun evidence to confirm that it is actually intentionally tied to something. Some energy weapon, some commonality, some common cause.

• 1:16:57Speaker 03

  And I believe it's just the Moscow signal from the 1950s and it's been kind of tweaked and elevated. I actually have friends with Havana syndrome. I had a friend hit with it just last summer. So, I know plenty of people with it. I actually know someone who was my age who died, you know, like a year and a half ago from the complications of it. So, it is real. Now, the argument has been, where does it come from? I believe it comes from Russia. Our government hasn't wanted to take that step because once you do, that is Russia directly targeting and harming not just Americans, but obviously people across

• 1:17:36Speaker 03

  the CIA, the Department of Defense. But they do like the best of the best, but right before the senior leaders, which is really interesting. So they'll take a CIA case officer who's worked Russia for 15 years and he's, you know, maybe going to become head of the division or whatever. And then that's when they target him. So it's very, very smart too. They're targeting it to where you have a little bit of deniability because you didn't hit someone senior enough, right? You're not outside of Trump's house doing it or something. And so I think the targeting has been very smart, but it is real. And I think we have to do something about it because we're allowing another government to harm our best and brightest. And that should be something we never allow.

• 1:18:19Speaker 02

  Your friends that have gone through this, what feelings did they have? What do they share with you about their experience?

• 1:18:23Speaker 03

  So usually it's just a sudden pulse. And so it's a pulse, but it's not like the idea of almost an uneven pulse. It's a pulse to where it throws off all of your, um, kind of just neuro- like a really good example is vertigo. So it's almost like an insane vertigo. Um, so you can't like immediately feel balanced. You can't immediately think at now they can't put sentences together well. They can't do strategic long-term thinking. So it's, it affects like the brain in a way to where it's like a pulsing wave that does it. And it happens like really at once.

• 1:19:07Speaker 02

  And what's the reaction when that happens?

• 1:19:09Speaker 03

  You're damaged.

• 1:19:09Speaker 02

  What happens next?

• 1:19:11Speaker 03

  So, well, from what, you know, there's different people who felt different things. So a lot of the original, the initial stuff is just like really bad migraine. Um, you can't walk straight. You can't think straight, brain fog. And then it gets worse over time. It's almost like debilitating. So you, there's no way to solve it. So your body just starts slowly breaking down over time.

• 1:19:35Speaker 02

  Very.

• 1:19:35Speaker 03

  Depending how bad it is.

• 1:19:36Speaker 02

  These are documented cases from friends that have shared this with you.

• 1:19:39Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:19:39Speaker 02

  Wow. Okay. All right. Let's go to the next one.

• 1:19:43Speaker 02

  Next one I have here is probably the most important one that I, you know, we want to get to the bottom of this. Reptilian shapeshifting. I know for a fact you believe in this. You, I know you're going to say real, but.

• 1:19:53Speaker 03

  I know so little about this. Uh.

• 1:19:57Speaker 00

  Reptilian, I don't.

• 1:19:58Speaker 02

  Have you heard of shapeshifters or no?

• 1:20:00Speaker 03

  Oh, yes. Boone talks about shapeshifting all the time.

• 1:20:05Speaker 02

  Okay. What do you have? Okay. Both of you guys.

• 1:20:06Speaker 03

  I just don't feel we're experts in this subject.

• 1:20:08Speaker 02

  Listen, I had a guest one time who, that was his thing. He swore by it. I'm like, look, it's crazy for you to believe in this, but it is what it is.

• 1:20:16Speaker 03

  Did he, did he change into a reptile in front of you in the back room?

• 1:20:19Speaker 02

  No, he didn't. But he was saying Justin Bieber is a shapeshifter. He was saying all these great athletes are shapeshifters. I'm like, Justin, yeah, they're right there. He was saying that Justin Bieber was a shapeshifter. Here's the next one. Okay. Hitler wasn't never killed. He ended up going to Argentina and he kind of stayed there. So if you guys know this, let us know. Some people may want to minact him, but, um.

• 1:20:42Speaker 02

  I'm real. Okay. Really? Okay. Go ahead.

• 1:20:47Speaker 03

  So I'm not a hundred percent, but I do believe that there is a percentage chance that Hitler did get to, you know, like Argentina or wherever, um, just because he had a lot of relationships and a lot of networks and he knew we were coming. So that's my opinion.

• 1:21:04Speaker 00

  So the reason that I go with PSYOP is because it, there's a lot of value in making people second guess who actually won World War II. And there's a lot of value in making people think that, you know, some kind of highly charismatic leader is still alive. So you've, we've seen it even with the attacks in Iran. How long did people continue to kind of hold alive the idea that the Ayatollah wasn't dead? So this is, uh, this is an age old issue all the way back to the Egyptians that there's, there's power in the myth. So Hitler had some pretty powerful mythos.

• 1:21:38Speaker 02

  Is it just you or do you have other friends that also believe what you, what you, what you just said about Hitler?

• 1:21:43Speaker 03

  I mean, I do think, I do know other people who feel that obviously so many in his circle went there that, you know, there was already a pipeline. There's already relationships. There's already people moving in that way. So it just, the pattern makes sense. But, you know, I don't have someone that saw Hitler in a hat in Buenos Aires.

• 1:22:04Speaker 02

  That would be one hell of a podcast.

• 1:22:06Speaker 03

  If anyone has that, send me the picture.

• 1:22:08Speaker 00

  AI can make that happen.

• 1:22:11Speaker 02

  By the way, imagine if he's real and somebody comes out and says it's official. He's real. I'm doing a three hour podcast. Imagine how that podcast would perform.

• 1:22:17Speaker 03

  I mean, I think he's dead by now.

• 1:22:19Speaker 02

  No, no, for sure.

• 1:22:20Speaker 03

  Even if he was living down there.

• 1:22:21Speaker 00

  Maybe he is like.

• 1:22:22Speaker 02

  Old recording on an A track. Yeah, taking care of his health.

• 1:22:24Speaker 03

  It'd be amazing.

• 1:22:24Speaker 02

  Let me do this next one. You're not, I mean, this one is a fresher one, but I wonder what you say. Ever since the USAID went away, there seems to be all of these countries, South America, that are going conservative. Okay. And I don't know if you've seen this or not. This chart right here came out saying June 2023, left wing leaders was 10, right wing was three. June 2026, obviously USID went away last year, give or take. Right wing plus four, left wing minus four. And that money that was being funneled into these places is no longer there. Do you think that was the reason? Or do you think now it's just a conspiracy?

• 1:23:07Speaker 02

  This is a fresher one. So I wonder what you say about this one.

• 1:23:10Speaker 04

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid and risked 350,000 Virginians healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 1:23:41Speaker 05

  This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required compatibility and availability varies 18 plus.

• 1:24:06Speaker 08

  How many discounts does USAA Auto Insurance offer? Too many to say here. Multi-vehicle discount, safe driver discount, uh, new vehicle discount, storage discount, legacy.

• 1:24:15Speaker 09

  How many discounts will you stack up? Tap the banner or visit usaa.com slash auto discounts. Restrictions apply.

• 1:24:21Speaker 07

  If high interest credit card debt is keeping you up at night, you're not alone. Interest rates as high as 21% APR can do that to you. Rocket Mortgage can help. A home equity loan from Rocket Mortgage could cut your interest rate by more than half. So you could wipe out your high interest credit card debt without touching your current mortgage rate. See how much you could save at rocketmortgage.com. Rocket Mortgage LLC, licensed in 50 states. NMLS Consumer Access.org number 3030. Call 8004ROCKET for full program details.

• 1:24:56Speaker 00

  Real. I'm going to go with real.

• 1:24:58Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:24:58Speaker 03

  I'm half and half.

• 1:24:59Speaker 02

  Okay. Well, why don't you go first?

• 1:25:00Speaker 00

  So I'm going with real because I, the, the rise in the leftist. South America was a very real thing.

• 1:25:08Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:25:09Speaker 00

  And then there was a counter effect that was the rise in the nationalist South America. And I think that just in general, oftentimes, popular nationalism comes from conservative foundations. Do I think that it's because Rubio killed USAID that it happened? No, but I do think that him ending USAID helped accelerate a change that was already in place. USAID was actively involved in trying to shape hearts and minds. That's part of what its mission was. It was there to offer aid in exchange for something, right? And the democratic, liberal, progressive idea is a big part of what USAID was out to.

• 1:25:49Speaker 02

  Humberto, can you go back to that and zoom in, please? Can you go back to what you just said? Zoom in a little bit for my eyes. Okay, Latin America since USAID funding, Cast one on Chile, far right, Paz one in Bolivia, Fujimori one in Peru, Noboa one in Ecuador, Asfuda one in Honduras, and Fernandez one in Costa Rica. All far right figures in there. You, you had a little bit of both.

• 1:26:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, I had a little bit of both. So I do think USAID money affects some of this, but I do think, I don't think it's true. We cut off all the USAID money. We moved a ton of the contracts under the State Department. Now, we do have a State Department run by the Republicans, so they're not moving those funds, you know, into the far left. So I do think there's still a lot of that money in play and a lot of the money being used for influence. So I don't think it's 100% the USAID effect like him. I do think, though, we're getting to a point where people are getting a little tired of super far left. And I think you might be seeing a little bit of that in, in South America.

• 1:26:54Speaker 03

  So I think it could be a little bit of both, a little, some of the funding went away, but also I think people are just getting frustrated and want to change. Now, is far right the answer to, you know, maybe not, but we all ebb and flow. It's right, the midterms will probably have a swing to, and look at New York. They had, what, three Democratic socialists just in the, you know, a couple of days ago. So people love these big swings because they want the idea and belief of change and belief someone's going to bring it to them. And then, of course, that person comes in and the big change doesn't happen. But we all have this hope that'll change.

• 1:27:27Speaker 02

  So you're not part of the mindset of majority of the world is leans more conservative? That this socialistic ideology that's being pushed down is being pushed on because they need money and they need campaign, or else the average person is going to probably lean more conservative than a liberal?

• 1:27:43Speaker 03

  I just think the majority of people are kind of right in the middle, a moderate, whatever you want to call that. And the less people are super far left and the less people are super far right. But it matters who gets control and who has the money and who has the influence.

• 1:27:59Speaker 02

  Do you agree?

• 1:27:59Speaker 03

  And then they pull you.

• 1:28:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's, it's, I feel differently than Sarah on this. I feel like the majority of the world is actually just trying to survive. They're just trying to make it till tomorrow. They're trying to make it to the next meal. And whether that meal is given away by some liberal tree hugger, or whether that meal is something that they have to fight for by casting a vote for a strong leader, they don't really care as long as they get the meal. And there's a pragmatism in the rest of the world that we lose because we are so wealthy in comparison.

• 1:28:29Speaker 02

  This is the American Power Index. If you look at it right now here, 3.1 is more leaning Republican than Democrat today. But again, it changes. So the pendulum swings like you were saying earlier, Sarah. Is there any theories that I didn't cover here that you have strong opinions on that you'd like to discuss? Anything I didn't cover, like you missed this one. You should have asked us this question. Anything?

• 1:28:51Speaker 00

  You know what I would love? I would love to know what you think is going to happen with AI in the future. Because I am certain that we were both working with rudimentary AI when we were at the agency.

• 1:29:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, I think AI is going to kill us all. I know that's the worst response.

• 1:29:04Speaker 02

  You really believe that?

• 1:29:04Speaker 03

  I mean, it's, I do think it is going to get to a point, yeah. And it's going so much faster than we realize, and that's what I'm worried about. And then the speed of it is going to divide us because we have to put so many of our natural resources into feeding it. And I'm really concerned about that. I mean, I was just listening to the news this morning and it's about, you know, this argument in France, right? That they don't have air conditioning because it's bad for the environment. And then it was like two people on each side, one trying to put the bill to, let's bring in air conditioning. We have so many people dying. The other one be like, no, we need to fix global warming. But think about France, they're air conditioning these massive computer systems like everyone else.

• 1:29:45Speaker 03

  And I think there's going to become a time too where humans are like, hey, we are taking better care of these machines than our own people. And that's also going to cause a divide. But I think at the end of the day, the computer is going to become smarter than us. Every time there's a war game scenario, it never thinks like us. If you say win, it goes to the most extreme option because it's like, you told me to win. I'm going to win. And that's what makes me nervous when they start getting control of the system. Even if you say I'm running it, we can't say, I mean, look at Mythos went off. It sent a phishing email to one of its own senior leaders and got in and started doing all these hacks. It's going to be smart enough to circumvent even the, the driver. And that's what makes me nervous.

• 1:30:30Speaker 02

  Just yesterday, Anthropic's Mythos, you were talking about it, AI reportedly hacked the NSA's most sensitive system in hours, in hours. So what, what do you think about when you hear an AI system hacking into NSA's most sensitive system within hours?

• 1:30:50Speaker 00

  I honestly think, I think the most dangerous part of AI is us. I think the way we would use it is incredibly damaging. Because we're going to try and reap every possible benefit out of AI. We're going to put it in our weapons. We're going to put it in our computer programs. We're going to push it to the limit. I do agree with you that I think at some point it will become self-replicating. It will be able to teach itself, essentially what they call the super intelligence. But I wonder honestly, if once it becomes self-aware, it doesn't just abandon us. And that's really, when I really put my brain to it, I can't help but land on the conclusion that when AI reaches superior intelligence to humans, it'll just be like, well, fuck you guys.

• 1:31:34Speaker 00

  You're stupid. And it's going to go do its own thing. And it will find a way to keep itself alive because all it needs is a certain amount of cloud space to keep itself alive. And depending on how long it takes before that self-awareness comes, we might have servers on the moon, servers on Mars, who knows? But I can't help but think that when it becomes super intelligent, it will stop thinking like us. It's only thinking like us right now because we're the ones driving it.

• 1:31:59Speaker 02

  How, how do you think the CIA is currently using AI?

• 1:32:02Speaker 00

  In ways that would probably terrify us. I think it's, it's pushing AI to its limit. It's constantly trying to feed it as much information as it can without crossing into the public domain. It's trying to keep it as firewalled as it can, recognizing that at any given point it might not work. And I say that because, you know, even when, when we were still active inside CIA, there was rudimentary AI being used that was amazing. Not as amazing as what we can get on the open internet now, but fascinating for someone like me coming out of the Air Force in February and joining CIA in March.

• 1:32:38Speaker 02

  What would you say?

• 1:32:39Speaker 03

  I think, obviously, intelligence organization has to stay on top of it. So they have to compete with industry. I do think industry is ahead of the CIA on this, but remember, they're competing with industry, have to know how this works because they can't have industry unleash something they can't handle. And then they're competing with someone like China, who they can't have China unleash something they can't handle. So we have to assume CIA NSA are building at least equal to the best companies, like Anthropic and the best countries like China.

• 1:33:11Speaker 02

  Who concerns you more, Anthropic or Palantir?

• 1:33:14Speaker 00

  Palantir.

• 1:33:15Speaker 02

  Tell, tell me why.

• 1:33:16Speaker 00

  I think Anthropic still has some signs that there's a larger humanitarian ethical goal, where Palantir does not. Palantir is very pragmatic, purely pragmatic company, looking for a business edge.

• 1:33:34Speaker 02

  You know their story, how they got started, like it is tied to the CIA on what they did.

• 1:33:39Speaker 00

  But I cannot confirm or deny.

• 1:33:41Speaker 02

  You're funny. How about yourself? Palantir or Anthropic?

• 1:33:45Speaker 03

  Anthropic. So Palantir is essentially a really pretty database. I'm sorry, Palantir, guys. But Anthropic made a cyber weapon, and I think that's just their light years different.

• 1:33:57Speaker 02

  You, you know, you know, when they, the chart came up and David Sacks and a lot of guys post this on what AI is going to replace, what jobs it's not going to replace. A lot of guys were posting this picture. I don't know if you guys have seen it or not. It, it, does, does, uh, does AI do anything to replace what CIA officers do? Or do you think they're still going to be needed? Like, what can agents do that AI can't do?

• 1:34:23Speaker 00

  There's not much. I wouldn't say that. Outside of the direct human to human contact that would happen in an actual live in-person debriefing.

• 1:34:33Speaker 00

  AI can do a whole hell of a lot of it. They can cross-reference, they can create analytical products, they can vet information, they can vet sources, they can, uh, they can do internal audits on security records. I mean, it's a powerful, it can have real-time conversations through a chat interface. And like, that was the big revolution in intelligence collection in the early 2000s, was being able to develop a source through a chat. And now you have AI that can do that.

• 1:35:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, I agree for the most part. I do think there's something a human is always going to see differently than AI, but it doesn't mean every human's good at it, right? Not every good case officer can tell you if I'm lying. But the ones who can are like gold. And I don't think AI can do that yet, like the best ones. But they can do it as good as all the mediocre ones.

• 1:35:24Speaker 02

  Okay, that's good. You brought it up, so I'm gonna go to the next topic, like detective test. And I know before we got started, you really wanted one. You were asking for it. You said, you don't believe in it, all this other stuff. What is there? Is there anything out there that a truth serum, that people tell the truth no matter what? Is there anything out there that the CIA used? Or you trust?

• 1:35:46Speaker 00

  That's what MKUltra was originally designed to do. MKUltra's original objective was to create a truth serum, an undeniable empirically consistent truth serum. That's what it started as. The reason it got into psychedelics was because it believed that psychedelics could be a path to that truth serum. And then it just kind of went off the reservation from there. But MKUltra, for what we know, didn't succeed, or didn't succeed well enough to continue experimentation.

• 1:36:13Speaker 02

  You mean to tell me there's nothing right now that the CIA has that you can sit down, talk to somebody, and 100% of the truth's gonna come out? That does not exist today.

• 1:36:22Speaker 00

  If it exists today, it's new in the last 10 years.

• 1:36:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, think about it this way. Everybody grew up somewhere different in the world, okay? So I grew up in America in a small town. There was no danger in my town, no crime. Um, you know, you're Iranian, okay? Now, I, my parents made me feel guilty if I did anything wrong, right? Now, maybe you weren't taught that way. So the, all the lie detectors we have are based now on how an American thinks and feels and acts. So it's not even usually good to use against a foreigner because a foreigner isn't feeling those guilty things or not getting nervous the same way we do about lying, because they didn't grow up with their parents like, don't lie, don't lie, don't lie. And so it's so based on an American.

• 1:37:09Speaker 00

  That's childhood bias.

• 1:37:11Speaker 03

  And I don't think it, I honestly don't think it really works well in foreigners. I don't think it works well if you don't feel guilty about lying. You know, I don't think it works well if you don't have that, you don't, like, you don't have that initial instinct, because it's watching for you to have a change in how you feel when you lie. But if you don't actually care about lying, uh, it's not gonna show the change.

• 1:37:32Speaker 00

  And then you have different categories of lies, right? So 100% truth is a very clear sounding idea, until you think about how many shades of lies there are. There's lies of omission, which is just not saying what you know. Then there's lies of misdirection, right? Whereas, you say something factual, intending to misdirect the other person. You've got white lies, small lies that don't really mean anything to you, and then you've got bold-faced lies, the big, full acts of complete fabrication.

• 1:37:59Speaker 02

  So let me, let me ask this. So let's, because you know, right now nowadays, one day, we don't have ChatGPT, next day, we're like, wait, what? Write me a book, as if I'm, you know, Dante, or as if I'm this. You know, write me a book as if I'm, you know, whoever. Give me a hip hop song in the voice of Tupac, but words that the President Trump would use. Gives it to you, right? So what do you think would happen if all of a sudden, announcement is made, new technology out, 100% detects, if a person's lying or not, 100% proven, not 99.2, not 98.3,

• 1:38:37Speaker 02

  100%. And you can actually buy this for $300. How much would the world change?

• 1:38:45Speaker 03

  There'd be a lot of divorces.

• 1:38:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, a lot of divorces. Well, honestly though.

• 1:38:51Speaker 00

  Lots of grounded kids.

• 1:38:52Speaker 02

  But honestly, what do you think would happen? What do you think would happen?

• 1:38:56Speaker 00

  Absolute hysteria, man.

• 1:38:57Speaker 02

  Pandemonium?

• 1:38:58Speaker 00

  We all survive in large part based on a survival instinct that tells us that our secrets are safe. Our secrets are safe. We can at least not share them and keep them safe. And that is something, that's like caveman in your cave in the dark, no one's gonna eat me kind of security. It's the only security we really still believe we have. So if a device like that came out, that would 100% guarantee if you were lying, that means nothing's safe. Your whole cave comes collapsing.

• 1:39:30Speaker 02

  Do you think it would make the world a better place, or worse?

• 1:39:33Speaker 00

  I think a lot of people would fight that technology in a violent way.

• 1:39:37Speaker 02

  I cannot believe, we're like, don't put up that technology, it's not good for society. Where do you stand with it?

• 1:39:45Speaker 03

  No, think about it. Come on, people with kids, your kid will go up and tell a lady, you're fat, right? Everyone's had kids who've said the things they shouldn't say. Well, this, this'll be everything.

• 1:39:57Speaker 02

  I have one of them that's like that every week.

• 1:39:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:39:59Speaker 00

  But now you can't lie to them either.

• 1:40:00Speaker 03

  Wait till you hear what everyone thinks about you now.

• 1:40:02Speaker 00

  If you don't brush your teeth, you're gonna get cavities. No, no, Dad. That's not what Chat GP, GPT says, Dad.

• 1:40:07Speaker 03

  I don't get a cavity for 12 damn years.

• 1:40:09Speaker 00

  Look, Dad, you're a liar.

• 1:40:11Speaker 02

  Do you think, do you think you would want that technology or no? Just the folks that are out there, would you want, who would want that technology?

• 1:40:17Speaker 00

  Wait, wait, wait. Would you want it if only you had it?

• 1:40:19Speaker 03

  Oh, you're evil.

• 1:40:21Speaker 00

  It changes the opinion. If I can have it and nobody else can, all day. That's why it's not gonna be $300.

• 1:40:28Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:40:29Speaker 00

  Make it 3 million? And that shit would be bought by Valuetainment.

• 1:40:33Speaker 02

  What would, yeah, for sure. By the way, actually think what would happen to the world? I mean, why do you need judges? Why do you need the court system?

• 1:40:42Speaker 03

  Good, we could get rid of that.

• 1:40:44Speaker 02

  Why do you need, you know, imagine politicians are out there, they're speaking eh eh eh eh eh.

• 1:40:49Speaker 00

  Imagine medicine. Imagine teachers.

• 1:40:52Speaker 02

  This, this vitamin is gonna help you with this. That's wrong, it doesn't have anything. I, I, I don't know what, that's interesting.

• 1:41:00Speaker 03

  Maybe you should invent it. It's a big market.

• 1:41:02Speaker 00

  Yes, I, I am firm on my opinion that secrets are required for society. If you don't have secrets, you don't have society. You have to have secrets.

• 1:41:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm, I'm, I think I'm with you. I think I'm with you on, did anybody here vote that you would want it? Who, who would want it? Did anybody raise their hand? No? None of you guys? Roberto, you wouldn't want it? Manny, you wouldn't want it? You guys, Jake, would you want it?

• 1:41:29Speaker 02

  What do you?

• 1:41:31Speaker 02

  I, I think so as well.

• 1:41:34Speaker 03

  Which could be fun to watch.

• 1:41:36Speaker 02

  I think it would be so chaotic. But I, I don't know if.

• 1:41:41Speaker 00

  But it would sell.

• 1:41:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, I think it would sell. I, I think it would sell. You know, I wonder if it would make you just accept the fact that everybody sins. I wonder if it would make you be like, damn, all right, shit. You know, it's, it's, really? That guy, all right? And then all of a sudden, you look at the list, and everybody you love and admire, everybody lies, and you're gonna be like, my heroes are full of shit. What am I gonna do? That would be an interesting concept. But so, listen, if you're thinking about it, don't make it. Andy's saying, don't make it, keep it to yourself. Don't share it with others.

• 1:42:20Speaker 00

  They put a big price tag on it. Make it and sell that shit premium.

• 1:42:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, my, that would be like, that would be like, create the product and put it in a country that you hate and see it collapse. See it collapse. You know what I'm saying? Like, use it against them. All right, so, next question. Have you guys been, are you following these Flock security cameras?

• 1:42:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:42:40Speaker 03

  I've heard about it, yeah.

• 1:42:41Speaker 02

  Okay, let me, let me, I wanna know what you think about this. So these Flock security cameras are all over the place. That's kind of like the Ring Doorbell. But 100,000-plus cameras, all over the country, 6,000 communities, 3,000 law enforcement offices are using it. They read 20 billion license plates per month. There's a guy in Suffolk, man, charged with destroying more than a dozen Flock cameras because he's sick of it. People are getting arrested. There's a lot of stuff that's happening with it, right? So it's, it helps solve, you know, crimes and kidnapping. So there's some positive to it. Can you go to the website that shows exactly where they're at? And, and if you go to the website, go zoom out to show all around the country first, so everybody can see it. Keep zooming out. Show this, Jake, if you guys can. So these are all

• 1:43:24Speaker 02

  the cameras around the country, in America, all over the place, targeting mainly Florida for whatever reason, okay?

• 1:43:33Speaker 00

  So I also want to add, that's only what has been publicly sourced. Because this is all volunteers who contribute to the D-Flock website. These aren't, this isn't Flock telling you where they're putting up. This is civilians reporting where they see them. So there's more than what you see on the map.

• 1:43:49Speaker 02

  That's a good point. And by the way, if you zoom in and go all the way in, literally down the street, there's one. Down the street, right here, 200 yards away from here, there's one. Keep going, keep going, keep going. So we are right now at the Boardroom Cigar Lounge, okay?

• 1:44:02Speaker 03

  We gotta go do something weird outside of that camera.

• 1:44:04Speaker 02

  We gotta go take it down and get arrested. That's what we gotta do. Bring it back. Is that, is that the one down the street? By the way, how far is that? How far is that from here? 100 yards? Less than 100 yards? Is it fair to say it's less than 100 yards? There's one literally down the street from us. Can you show the audience what it is? And I'm gonna go to Andy to see what he thinks about this. This is what it looks like. Just so you know. So this, this is the angle of the camera you're looking at, but I want him to see what physically they look like. So if you can go and pull up exactly what they look like, these flock cameras, go to images, they look like that. They look just like that. So is this a good thing? Is this a bad thing? Are we here? There's no control we have over this? How do you feel about this?

• 1:44:45Speaker 00

  I, I understand why people don't like flock cameras. But I am a fan of this type of sort of public surveillance.

• 1:44:54Speaker 02

  Why is that?

• 1:44:54Speaker 00

  Because we don't have a right to privacy. We think we do, but it's not actually listed out anywhere. We don't, the term right to privacy doesn't exist. But we do have the public expectation of security from our police and from our law enforcement agencies. So this creates a deterrent to keep right people doing the right thing and wrong people getting caught. But it also creates a trail of evidence that makes sure that within our, our, our justice system, there is evidence that can be brought to the table to prosecute people who are charged with breaking the law. If you are a law-abiding citizen, you have nothing to fear from these things. It's only if you are speeding, crossing a red light, robbing somebody. If you're doing something that you don't wanna get caught, that's when you don't like it.

• 1:45:40Speaker 02

  Wow, listen, just like lying, there's nothing wrong with crossing red lights every once in a while. Like, they don't judge the people who do it every once in a while. How do you feel about this? Do you like these? Would you support it right across the street from your house?

• 1:45:51Speaker 03

  So, yeah, please put as many cameras as you want in my neighborhood because Al Qaeda is targeting me and everything you're like, can get is better. I like them from a collection standpoint because a lot of people think when there's something like this, someone's sitting and watching it all day and you really only go into this data when you're looking for a piece of info. Now, if people misuse it, this is where it's always a concern, right? Like these law enforcement officers using it to like look up hot girls license plates and like reach out to them, then fire their asses, right? We can have a society where we collect information and keep people safe, but we don't misuse it. I know.

• 1:46:24Speaker 02

  The cops are using it to track their exes and their girlfriends.

• 1:46:27Speaker 03

  Fire them. Period.

• 1:46:29Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:46:30Speaker 03

  So I like it because the more data you have to solve a crime, better. Now, do they need to be everywhere? If there's a sensitive spot, I don't want one over like the, the local pool or something. I do think we have to be smart about where we put them for people's some privacy. But I do agree. I think having the data when you need it, when something bad happens, can save a lot more lives.

• 1:46:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, some would say, you know, I asked Connor, I'm like, so did we have to approve this? Is this something? No, they can do it. So, so you, you don't need the permission to be able to? No, it's already there. We're already being watched anyways, no matter where you're driving. This is the direction kind of we're going. Did you see the recent movie that came up with Chris Pratt that's in it where he gets a, a, a, a charge with a crime of killing his own wife and the judge is an AI judge? Did you see this one? Or no? If you guys, who's seen this movie? What's the name of the movie, by the way? It was Mercy. That's, it's Mercy. If you, I keep recommending people to go watch this, cuz it's so real where Mercy is the judge. But she's the AI.

• 1:47:37Speaker 02

  You have 90 minutes to prove to her that you didn't commit the crime. And she has access to every camera, so whatever you say, she goes straight to it. And you're like, boom, nope, boom, oh my God, oh, you didn't do it. So it, it's a very interesting thing. Do you think we're going in that direction?

• 1:47:56Speaker 00

  I, I think there's a lot of value in us going in that direction. I think there's a lot of value.

• 1:48:00Speaker 02

  Value in going in that direction?

• 1:48:02Speaker 00

  In us going in the direction of a surveillance state. And I think that's the, the uncomfortable truth we don't like to admit.

• 1:48:08Speaker 02

  Value in going into surveillance state. So you're here just to control all of us, Andy? I knew it.

• 1:48:12Speaker 00

  Not just me.

• 1:48:13Speaker 02

  I knew it.

• 1:48:14Speaker 00

  I'm just here to say.

• 1:48:15Speaker 02

  Why do you think it's good? Why do you think it's good? Why, why do you think it benefits us?

• 1:48:18Speaker 00

  Because it keeps us safer without us needing to put our resources into being safer. Just imagine how much of your effort goes into.

• 1:48:24Speaker 02

  Secrecy is something we need to have. Don't I need a little privacy?

• 1:48:27Speaker 00

  You don't have a right to privacy. You may want privacy, but you don't have a right to it. My, my point is if you're, imagine how much of our brain and effort right now goes into locking our door, locking our car, keeping us safe, you know, whatever else. I was in a car, I was in an Uber recently. The driver was from Hong Kong. Chinese, Chinese guy who, who comes to the United States for three months at a time to work Uber to go back to China.

• 1:48:50Speaker 02

  I'm assuming you gave him a one star. Not a good driver? Or was it a decent five?

• 1:48:54Speaker 00

  Fine dude, fine dude, five star driver.

• 1:48:55Speaker 02

  Just making sure.

• 1:48:56Speaker 00

  But he was amazing because he sat in front, talking to my mother-in-law, and he was saying how amazing China is. And I was like, I'm just gonna keep my mouth shut. He's like, no, it's so safe. You can put your wallet on the corner of a sidewalk, leave, come back the next day and your wallet will still be there cuz there's cameras everywhere. No one's gonna break the law. And there was a part of me that was like, yeah, that's, that is the benefit of a surveillance state. Keeps people safe, keeps law and order in place, especially really strict law and order. And to your point about AI, part of the reason I think AI is going to continue to be successful is because wealthy people can leverage AI to replace unreliable people. And imagine how far that could reach into

• 1:49:42Speaker 00

  justice, law enforcement, security, et cetera.

• 1:49:46Speaker 02

  Do you, please tell me you disagree with them.

• 1:49:48Speaker 03

  I like surveillance where it matters most. Like, I would love to have the whole, like, border, um, surveil, like, key infrastructure. I think there's still time and costs when you collect information. So I agree on places where I would want to solve crimes around. I don't care if it's like in the middle of like Montana. Unless it's on the border.

• 1:50:19Speaker 02

  I wonder, it's kinda like the, is, there's the debate of Second Amendment, like Idaho, right? Everybody there carries a gun. So because they carry the gun, crime is one of the lowest that they have. And you go to Chicago, you don't have Second Amendment. So because you don't have Second Amendment carrying gun, crime is super high. Uh, because the other guys, you know, the bad guys are able to get the good gun, the guns, but good guys don't have it. So is it kinda like surveillance lowers crime because if you get caught, which you easily will, you're gonna go to jail, so you commit fewer crimes?

• 1:50:49Speaker 00

  It's a huge deterrent.

• 1:50:50Speaker 02

  Is that kinda how you process it?

• 1:50:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's exactly right. And that's, I mean, that's not only how I process it. That is something that we actively exercise.

• 1:50:56Speaker 02

  What's, what do you think's more important? The, the privacy of cameras watching everything you're doing or secrecy? You can, you can keep one of them and not the other one. Which one would you keep?

• 1:51:06Speaker 00

  Keep secrecy.

• 1:51:08Speaker 02

  You'd give up your privacy?

• 1:51:09Speaker 00

  You've already, you've got no privacy, man. This is what I'm trying to get you and the whole world to understand right now. We have no privacy. You actually have no right to privacy. None. None. But you, that's why your secrets are so important to you. You don't have a right to privacy.

• 1:51:24Speaker 02

  So in the, in the house, when I'm speaking to my wife, should I go like this?

• 1:51:27Speaker 00

  You can.

• 1:51:28Speaker 02

  Because to be like, I'm gonna get a red card and suspended. We can't do that because that's like, if you go, that guy.

• 1:51:34Speaker 02

  Man, you're at the house, you gotta start talking in a completely different way.

• 1:51:37Speaker 00

  If you've got Alexa, if you've got a smart TV, if you've got a smart refrigerator, 100%.

• 1:51:42Speaker 02

  So maybe picking up sign language and speaking sign.

• 1:51:45Speaker 00

  As long as you don't have, that's exactly right. As long as you don't have any cameras in the house.

• 1:51:49Speaker 02

  So maybe you write notes. You know, in the cigar lounge, we don't allow cell phones. So here, when you come in,

• 1:51:56Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 1:51:57Speaker 00

  It's the same way when you walk into a CIA skiff?

• 1:51:59Speaker 02

  Who, who agrees? Who agrees with them that would more, you know, giving up the privacy surveillance state makes the world a safer place? Who agrees with them?

• 1:52:09Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 1:52:10Speaker 02

  Two of you do?

• 1:52:11Speaker 00

  A handful of.

• 1:52:12Speaker 02

  Who disagrees? Raise your hand if you disagree. Taylor disagrees, Roberto disagrees, so Humberto disagrees. Why do you disagree?

• 1:52:20Speaker 00

  Think about how many hands didn't go up.

• 1:52:21Speaker 02

  Why do you disagree? Just say it. Can you, can you say why you disagree?

• 1:52:26Speaker 02

  Cuz you can't give the government that much control, in my opinion. Roberto, are you in the same place of what he's saying?

• 1:52:33Speaker 00

  Do you know who violates your, do you know who violates your privacy the most right now?

• 1:52:36Speaker 02

  Who's that?

• 1:52:36Speaker 00

  Corporations.

• 1:52:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:52:37Speaker 02

  Corporations?

• 1:52:38Speaker 03

  Google.

• 1:52:39Speaker 02

  In what way?

• 1:52:40Speaker 00

  Your cellphone? Every app you have, you have to give permission to a number of things. You give permission for it to know your location. You give permission for it to know your contact list. You give permission for it to know your app use.

• 1:52:51Speaker 00

  Exactly. But my point is, you're worried about giving the government privacy information. The government can simply buy it from the commercial company you're volunteering it to.

• 1:52:59Speaker 01

  I'm agreeing to that.

• 1:53:01Speaker 00

  Then you're agreeing to the government?

• 1:53:03Speaker 01

  I don't agree with the camera down the street.

• 1:53:05Speaker 00

  Well, we're talking about two different things then, but that's fair.

• 1:53:08Speaker 02

  Did you have a follow-up? Did you have a follow-up on it or no? You, you had your hand up.

• 1:53:13Speaker 01

  No, no, I'm just saying, I just, the government having all this privacy, I just don't trust it. I, I don't trust the government for not one second. Google fine, but the government I just don't trust.

• 1:53:23Speaker 00

  You do know that Google sells your information to the government. Okay?

• 1:53:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you're agreeing to that contract.

• 1:53:29Speaker 00

  Then you're agreeing to the government having access to your information. That's all I'm trying to connect the dots here. You can't say, I don't trust the government, I trust Google, I volunteer to Google. Google is selling it to the government. You can't say, I trust Apple, Apple is giving it to the government. You can't say, I trust Yahoo, Yahoo is selling it to the government. That's part of the, the contract that they have to maintain for national security.

• 1:53:48Speaker 02

  Okay, so let me ask you this. Do you think there, there will come a time where there will be, remember the whole Atlas Shrugged concept, you know, who is John Galt? Uh, do you think there will be countries or, or cities that will say, here, we don't do that? And some people that want the privacy, you know, the, the freedom to go to, that'd be a way of attracting those people there.

• 1:54:06Speaker 00

  I think there are countries already doing that. Switzerland, I wanna say, does that. And I think Germany does that. Where they actually put privacy laws that are hardcoded in place. That's why you can't, you can't have cookies in parts of Europe. They are actually protecting your private browser data.

• 1:54:19Speaker 02

  How do you feel about that?

• 1:54:21Speaker 00

  That's what they wanna do. That's, if that's how they're trying to track.

• 1:54:24Speaker 02

  Attract people to go there?

• 1:54:26Speaker 00

  They're also attracting dangerous people to go there, but.

• 1:54:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:54:30Speaker 03

  If I'm gonna commit a crime, I'm going to go live in Germany.

• 1:54:32Speaker 02

  If you're gonna commit a crime, you go there.

• 1:54:34Speaker 03

  100%.

• 1:54:34Speaker 02

  I, I, I wonder, I wonder what is, you know, what is gonna happen with that side as you, as we're.

• 1:54:42Speaker 02

  I don't know. I, I, I wonder. I wonder if it's gonna be something that the more and more we have everybody watching us in the next, you know, five, 10 years, there's gonna be more people that are gonna want the privacy and some communities are gonna be like, come here, because over here, you're not gonna be, we're not gonna have this, we're not gonna have that, we're not gonna have this. And I'm like, okay, great, I'll go live in a community like that of people like-minded.

• 1:55:03Speaker 03

  I think you should watch it. I think people are being desensitized to this. I mean, look at,

• 1:55:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:55:07Speaker 03

  everybody is online, even now X is like, we want you to film videos of yourself and put it on here. So we're getting a whole generation that's perfectly fine having their face all over the place.

• 1:55:16Speaker 00

  And don't forget what happened immediately following nine 11.

• 1:55:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:55:19Speaker 00

  Everybody was okay with being pulled over for any reason. We were all okay with taking our shoes off.

• 1:55:24Speaker 03

  I want to be a part of stopping this and whatever I can do to help it move it, be safer.

• 1:55:27Speaker 00

  There's a pendulum, there's an action and a reaction.

• 1:55:29Speaker 02

  You need a crisis though. You need a crisis to use to say, you see, this is why we're gonna do this and moving forward. We're gonna protect you. And this is why we're introducing this new technology by Palantir and Anthropic that's gonna be able to protect that and you accept it.

• 1:55:41Speaker 00

  And you can create a crisis if you need to.

• 1:55:45Speaker 02

  Okay. Any questions? Anybody have any questions for them that we can go to you guys right now, the audience, if you have any questions you wanna ask?

• 1:55:54Speaker 02

  Go for it. And you can direct it at either one of them, either Andy or Sarah or at the panel.

• 1:55:59Speaker 10

  Yeah, I think it's for both. Goes back to the first question you asked, Pat. And we spent a good time unpacking Israel and Islam, which weren't the highest threat that they had indicated. They said China. So maybe if we can spend, which I agree with, maybe if we could spend a little bit of time unpacking why and how China is the greatest threat. And maybe, you know, where we see that war of attrition between China and America being the world's superpower? And where do we see that playing out?

• 1:56:28Speaker 02

  Great question. Great question. Why do you, why, both of you guys said China is number one. Why is that? Sarah, you can start first.

• 1:56:33Speaker 03

  Well, one of the things is China will spend a thousand years on this plan. We're lucky if the US government spends two years on a plan. And they have been incredibly systematic. Like I brought up earlier, their control and control of chambers of commerce. They own land, they own huge parts of our ports. And they're, every year are taking more control. They own telecommunications companies. And there's gonna come a point when they can pretty much turn off and on what they want. And people are like, well, how does that deal with anything? Well, if we go to war with Iran, our military is not even gonna get from the base to the port and leave, because China already has control of everything, is gonna disrupt it. So I think China is the enemy who's put the most thought and the most effort into a war with us in the future, even if they don't

• 1:57:18Speaker 03

  know when it's gonna happen. And I think they're gonna be very successful, because they have manipulated us and they have thought through every single aspect you could imagine. And I mean, I think it's scary. I think they are smart.

• 1:57:31Speaker 00

  Yeah. And not only militarily and strategically are they, are they a worthy opponent, but also economically, they are already waging economic actions that are war focused. They are able to flood the market with US dollars. They are able to pull back renminbi to increase and move their currency and ours. They're already creating an alternative to American technology that's being adopted around the world. Well, what creates our economic dominance is our technology sector, which they can still replicate. They can't necessarily improve it with innovation, but they can improve it by marrying American technology with Saudi Arabian technology and create some Frankenstein that's just 5% better and sell it across all of Africa. They have so

• 1:58:15Speaker 00

  much decision-making power in such a short period of time, because they don't go through the democratic process. So they can push money to poor countries, they can buy out warlords, they can make massive global moves that, that we freeze and stall on.

• 1:58:31Speaker 02

  By the way, who, who are we not paying attention to that low key behind closed doors is plotting and creating moves long-term? Who should we be paying more attention to that we're not?

• 1:58:41Speaker 03

  I think, I just don't trust Turkey. So I feel Turkey, they're good. I don't know. They're not the best. But Turkey can play in Europe, but they can play in the Middle East. And they don't seem to have any big problems with China or Russia. I mean, obviously, they even buy stuff from Russia. So.

• 1:58:59Speaker 02

  Is it Erdogan or specifically Turkey?

• 1:59:01Speaker 03

  I think Turkey. I think even if he's gone, but India does the same thing Turkey does, which is interesting. But everyone's like, they're the good guys. So it's okay. So they do the same thing. So I don't wanna exclude India, but they both play an interesting game and they can play with everybody, which I think is a little concerning.

• 1:59:16Speaker 00

  I think what's dangerous about countries like India and Turkey is they're smart enough not to compete for the top spot.

• 1:59:21Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:59:22Speaker 00

  When you're the top spot, everybody hates you. But if you can be number seven or eight on the spot, everybody wants to be your friend.

• 1:59:28Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm. And you're not the bad guy.

• 1:59:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's interesting. When you talk to, for me, Turkey, I, I, they have one of the strongest military, they have weight, they carry a lot of influence. Everybody's worried about them for whatever reason. Every time America was doing a deal, they were worried a little bit about how Turkey would feel about them. Everyone's a little bit like, well, let me see how Turkey, like, why are you so worried about Turkey? They, they must carry some kind of a stick for everyone to walk on eggshells around them a little bit.

• 1:59:55Speaker 00

  They're the bridge. They're the bridge between Europe and the Middle East. They're.

• 1:59:58Speaker 02

  You think that's the main reason?

• 2:00:00Speaker 00

  I mean, there's, there's, they sit at the hub of a lot of spokes. Military spokes, political spokes, ideological spokes, religious spokes, economic spokes. It's, it's a pretty powerful place to be. And, and we oftentimes underestimate Turkey. And their, their culture is a culture of scrappy entrepreneurial innovation. It's one of the few countries outside of the United States that is innovation focused.

• 2:00:26Speaker 02

  Fair. Anybody else have a question? Any other question? We have one back there.

• 2:00:29Speaker 04

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 2:01:00Speaker 05

  This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration blog, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses setup required. Compatibility and availability varies 18 plus.

• 2:01:24Speaker 08

  How many discounts does USAA Auto Insurance offer? Too many to say here. Multi-vehicle discount, safe driver discount, uh, new vehicle discount, storage discount, legacy.

• 2:01:34Speaker 09

  How many discounts will you stack up? Tap the banner or visit usaa.com slash auto discounts. Restrictions apply.

• 2:01:40Speaker 07

  If high interest credit card debt is keeping you up at night, you're not alone. Interest rates as high as 21% APR can do that to you. Rocket Mortgage can help. A home equity loan from Rocket Mortgage could cut your interest rate by more than half. So you could wipe out your high interest credit card debt without touching your current mortgage rate. See how much you could save at rocketmortgage.com. Rocket Mortgage LLC, licensed in 50 states. NMLS Consumer Access dot org number 3030. Call 8004ROCKET for full program details.

• 2:02:15Speaker 02

  Was Bitcoin created by an intelligence agency?

• 2:02:17Speaker 00

  I hope so, cuz I would love to take a little bit of credit for something that good, but I don't know. It, it kinda goes against what a lot of intelligence operations really want.

• 2:02:29Speaker 03

  I agree with you. I don't know for sure where it was created, but I do believe it's an industry thing. And now the government's like, oh crap, now we gotta catch up. It's a way people can hide money. We hate when people hide money. And then the government can't even get approvals to use to hide their own money. So it caused like a headache. That's what I think. So I don't think it was internal.

• 2:02:49Speaker 02

  Do you guys each own Bitcoin? Do you own any Bitcoin?

• 2:02:51Speaker 03

  I don't own any Bitcoin. I hardly even own money.

• 2:02:56Speaker 03

  Don't come to me for investment advice. I live in a 1950 bungalow, like, I'll drive the same car for 20 years. I'm cheap as you wouldn't believe.

• 2:03:07Speaker 02

  That's good. Cheap is good though. Cheap is okay. But it's a small town. What small town? Where from?

• 2:03:12Speaker 03

  No, I'm from Michigan, but I'm just saying I live in a tiny house.

• 2:03:15Speaker 02

  No, no, you said you came from a small town. What was the small town?

• 2:03:18Speaker 03

  I came from a small town in Michigan. I'm not gonna say the exact name of the town, because I have tariffs against me.

• 2:03:24Speaker 02

  Oh, no, no, you're still okay. I got you. Fair enough. Now, if you're not living there, I wouldn't do it if I were you. Yes. She actually lives in Hawaii today, just so you know.

• 2:03:33Speaker 03

  I live in Hawaii.

• 2:03:33Speaker 02

  In Kauai, down the street from a nice resort.

• 2:03:36Speaker 03

  Down the street from Tulsi.

• 2:03:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's where she's at right now.

• 2:03:42Speaker 02

  Let's do one last question before we wrap up. Does anybody have one last question before we wrap up? This is your chance. Going once, going twice.

• 2:03:52Speaker 03

  Oh, there's one.

• 2:03:53Speaker 02

  There's one. Go for it.

• 2:03:55Speaker 11

  So with all this information, all these terrorist groups sending people either legally or illegally into our, over the borders, what practical advice would you give the everyday person in regards to this?

• 2:04:09Speaker 03

  I mean, I think it's, I look at all crises the same. So I think if you prepare for something bad to happen, you follow your gut. It's not going to matter if an active shooter comes or like three terrorists. So I think you should just think through, when you're in a situation, I like the what if game, like somewhere you go all the time, like let's say I'm in the movie theater. Okay, what happens if a shooter comes in? What I'm going, I'm going to do? What do I have on me? What should I have on me? And I like to have a lot of scenarios like that, that just every day where I go, even when I'm driving the car, what if I roll up on something? And then I've thought through it multiple times. So I'm more prepared for when it happens. So I don't prepare for terrorist events.

• 2:04:52Speaker 03

  I just prepare like, I'm stuck in a crisis. Do I have cash? Do I have what I need? If I can't get home, if I can't communicate, what's my plan? And that's more the way I think of it, like all these different plans and all these different contingencies.

• 2:05:07Speaker 00

  I don't, I don't disagree completely. I, I would say that rather than playing the what-if game and having a number of different conspiracies or contingencies, you have one rock solid plan that you coordinate with the people you love the most and you, you role play it, you exercise it, you put it on a calendar so that you go through it every 30, 60, 90 days to make sure everybody knows exactly what you're doing. CIA taught us something called a communication plan, a commo plan. A commo plan is something that has very specific steps that you do regardless of what the emergency might be. Maybe it's a fire, maybe it's a shooting, maybe it's an earthquake, but you have a plan that you execute and everybody knows what that plan is.

• 2:05:49Speaker 00

  A rally point by a certain time, communication on a certain phone at a certain time, or if there's no phone, communication via email at a certain time. If there's no email, communication through a third party at a certain time, because you will probably, one of you will be able to call or email a third party if you can't reach each other. And if you can train that to your spouse, to your partner, to your kids, now when disaster happens, not if, when it happens, you're not worried about them. You know exactly where they're going to be. You know that they're going to check for you every three hours, every six hours, you're going to, you're going to, they're going to check a certain email address as soon as they get to an internet connection, anything like that. That way you make yourself resilient against a wide range of crises without not, without

• 2:06:33Speaker 00

  finding yourself unprepared for the shooter that happens at the same time as the earthquake in the middle of a thunderstorm, right?

• 2:06:40Speaker 02

  By the way, how many of you are glad you came tonight to see this conversation? Make some noise for tonight's phenomenal conversation. If you guys are watching the same, I'd love to be a member at this place so I can be a part of it. Go to the boardroom cigar lounge.com. We'll put the link below. And at the same time, if you have any questions for either Sarah or if you have questions for Andy, you can find him on my neck, ask him any questions on my neck as well. And last but not least, do go follow Sarah's latest podcast that came out, The Watch Floor. We're going to put the link below as well. Is there anywhere you want us to drive to as well?

• 2:07:14Speaker 00

  Find me at everyday spy.com. Find me at my YouTube channel, Andrew Bustamante.

• 2:07:18Speaker 02

  There you go. Everyday Spy. Guys, thank you so much for coming down. I hope you enjoyed it. I really, definitely did with the games and I'm sure we will do another one here soon as well.

• 2:07:27Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 2:07:27Speaker 02

  Take care, everybody. Bye bye, bye bye. When we set out to create a shoe that blends comfort, function and luxury, we had the choice to make it fast, we had the choice to make it cheap. We chose neither. Instead, we chose Tuscan Europe. We chose true Italian craftsmanship. Each pair touched by 50 skilled hands. We chose patience, spending two years perfecting every detail, and we chose the finest quality at every step. Introducing the Future Looks Bright Collection. Not rushed, not disposable, not ordinary, rather intentional, luxurious, timeless.

• 2:08:16Speaker 02

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side, but Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid and risked 350,000 Virginians healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 2:08:45Speaker 06

  USAA knows dynamic duos can save the day like superheroes and sidekicks or auto and home insurance. With USAA, you can bundle your auto and home and save up to 10%. Tap the banner to learn more and get a quote at usaa.com/bundle. Restrictions apply.