“Epstein’s Black Book Is REAL” - Epstein’s DARK Ties To Billionaires, Elites & Intel - Nick Bryant | PBD Podcast | Ep. 638

Patrick Bet-David interviews investigative journalist Nick Bryant on the Franklin Scandal, Epstein’s black book, government coverups, and why an independent commission is needed to expose systemic child trafficking networks tied to elites, intelligence, and political power. -------- Ⓜ️ CONNECT WITH NICK BRYANT ON MINNECT: https://bit.ly/3HL9Qos 👮EPSTEIN JUSTICE: https://bit.ly/41ZAlNH 🖊️ RELEASE THE EPSTEIN FILES PETITION: https://bit.ly/4fY4hzr 🖥️ NICK BRYANT'S WEBSITE: https://bit.ly/3JArTOM 🎫 THE VAULT 2025 | SEPT 8TH - 11TH | THE GAYLORD PALMS | ORLANDO, FL: ⁠https://bit.ly/40lR90L⁠ https://bit.ly/40lR90L 🍋 ZEST IT FORWARD: ⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4kJ71lc⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4kJ71lc 📕 PBD'S BOOK "THE ACADEMY": ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/41rtEV4⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/41rtEV4 🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON SPOTIFY: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4g57zR2⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4g57zR2 🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON ITUNES: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4g1bXAh⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4g1bXAh 🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON ALL PLATFORMS: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4eXQl6A⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4eXQl6A 📱 CONNECT ON MINNECT: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4ikyEkC⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4ikyEkC 👔 BET-DAVID CONSULTING: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3ZjWhB7⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/3ZjWhB7 📰 VTNEWS. AI: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3OExClZ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/3OExClZ 🎓 VALUETAINMENT UNIVERSITY: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3BfA5Qw⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/3BfA5Qw 📺 JOIN THE CHANNEL: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4g5C6Or⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4g5C6Or 💬 TEXT US: Text “PODCAST” to 310-340-1132 to get the latest updates in real-time! ABOUT US: Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal Bestseller “Your Next Five Moves” (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:26Speaker 01

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• 0:55Speaker 02

  I wrote a book called The Franklin Scandal. A story of power brokers, child abuse, and betrayal. And Epstein, in many ways, is a carbon copy of The Franklin Scandal.

• 1:03Patrick Bet-David?

  But for whatever reason, this topic makes people on both sides very uncomfortable.

• 1:08Speaker 02

  The 1980s Lawrence King of Omaha ran a child trafficking network with Craig Spence in Washington DC. They would get a lot of kids from the orphanage Boys Town. And then they'd fly them to DC. And at DC, there was Craig Spence's party house. So it was wired for audiovisual blind.

• 1:24Patrick Bet-David?

  You're saying there was ties with the CIA to The Franklin Scandal?

• 1:27Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:27Patrick Bet-David?

  I've heard you talk about Bush. I've heard you talk about Warren Buffett's wife. Who were some of those names he circled?

• 1:34Speaker 02

  Billionaire Glenn Dubin, Alan Dershowitz, Leslie Wexler, Elaine Maxwell, Jean-Luc Brunel.

• 2:03Speaker 04

  Adam, what's your point? The future looks bright? My handshake is better than anything I ever signed, right here.

• 2:11Patrick Bet-David?

  You are a one of one? My son's right there.

• 2:13Speaker 04

  I don't think I've ever said this before.

• 2:20Patrick Bet-David?

  Nick Bryant, great to have you on.

• 2:22Speaker 02

  Great to be with you.

• 2:23Patrick Bet-David?

  Yes, I was telling you earlier, it's not as if the Epstein topic is going, you know, trending right now, as if people are interested in what's going on. There are the press conference on the 3rd, you were telling me about that's coming up, but for some of the people, when you talk about Epstein, the guys that, they're the guys that follow the stories, where they maybe watch a couple documentaries, they watch a couple YouTube videos, then there's those guys that know the names of, you know, Whitney Webb and all the, and then there's the guys that know who the OGs that started all of this. You kind of started a lot of this stuff. So if you don't mind taking a minute, share your background with the audience so they know who you are and what you've done.

• 2:57Speaker 02

  I got it rolling. I wrote a book called The Franklin Scandal, a story of power brokers, child abuse and betrayal. And Epstein, it's about a child trafficking network, and Epstein in many ways is a carbon copy of the Franklin scandal. And I started doing research on the Franklin scandal in 2002, and then the book, I spent seven years on it, it was published 2009, 2010. And at that point, I was pretty exhausted. When you go as deep into a child trafficking network as I went, I mean, I interviewed like a blackmail photographer, and a lot of other, and found lots of victims and interviewed them, and it was...

• 3:37Patrick Bet-David?

  This is the story of Lawrence King.

• 3:39Speaker 02

  Yes, yes, Lawrence King.

• 3:40Patrick Bet-David?

  Which is a horrible, horrible story.

• 3:42Speaker 02

  Craig Spence, yes. And so I spent seven years on that, and then the book came out, and no one wanted to touch it. I mean, and I live in New York City, I live in the epicenter, the mecca of media, and I have had a lot of friends in the media. And I thought, well, you know, I know so many people in the media that certainly they're going to help me. And I was only helped by one person, which, which kind of surprised me, Maliki McCourt, he's a fairly famous author, and Maliki and I were pretty good buddies, and he was the only one that really tried to help me. And, and then it...

• 4:24Speaker 02

  And then it just kind of withered. And I mean, I was on some podcasts with crazy people talking about the Illuminati and shape shifting reptilians and things like that. It was very demoralizing at that point to spend that much time.

• 4:38Patrick Bet-David?

  Why do you think, why do you think they didn't have interest? And by the way, for maybe the average person that doesn't know about the Franklin cover up, the Community Federal Credit Union and Lawrence King, maybe, maybe share that story a little bit because it is a very controversial story.

• 4:52Speaker 02

  Well, in the 1980s, Lawrence King of Omaha ran a child trafficking network with Craig Spence of Washington DC. And they would fly kids mostly from Omaha. They would get a lot of kids from the orphanage Boys Town. And then they'd fly them to DC. And at DC there was Craig Spence's party house. So it was wired for audiovisual blackmail. And if someone decided to partake of any illicit goods at Spence's home, they would, they would be blackmailed. And Spence was a CI asset. All his, I wrote a second book called Confessions of a DC Man, The Politics of Sex, Lies, and Blackmail, about a guy who

• 5:35Speaker 02

  ran a gay escort service. And he let, and Spence used his escorts to compromise closet politicians. So I've written two books that pertain to Craig Spence. And there was a Nebraska Senate Subcommittee that tried to get to the bottom of what was happening, but they were rolled over by federal firepower, much like what we've seen with Epstein, with corrupt grand juries and the Department of Justice being corrupt. So ultimately, what happened there was these grand juries, there were two grand juries. And I don't know if your audience is familiar with how grand juries work, because this will also come up

• 6:15Speaker 02

  with Epstein. A special prosecutor is chosen to oversee a grand jury. And he or she presents evidence to the grand jurors. That he or she deems important and also calls the witnesses. So whatever a special pro- and grand jurors are just citizens that have shown up for jury duty and they've been found to a grand jury. When we hear the term grand jury, we think like the gods of jurisprudence have spoken for Mount Olympus, but actually grand jurors are just citizens that have been found to a grand jury. And the special prosecutor has so much sway over the grand jurors that there's a famous quip from a New York Supreme Court judge that says, "Special prosecutors could get grand jurors to indict a ham sandwich."

• 6:59Speaker 02

  And that's what happened with the Franklin, that's what happened with the Franklin grand jurors, and that's also what happened with the Epstein grand jury. Except with the Franklin grand juries, the kids that wouldn't recant, the FBI came in and got most of the kids to recant. The kids that wouldn't recant, there were two of them, were indicted for perjury. Paul Benassi was indicted on three counts of perjury. He was looking at 60 years. Alicia Owen was indicted on eight counts of perjury from a state grand jury and eight counts of perjury from a federal grand jury. And she was looking at 200 years. And she still refused to recant. Actually, both of them refused to recant. And Alicia was fed to a kangaroo court.

• 7:44Speaker 02

  And now here's a kid that came forward when she's 20 years old. They gave her nine to 15 years in prison for perjury. And then the authorities really tried to destroy her. They put her in solitary confinement for two years, nearly two years, to be punitive. And actually, what's amazing is Alicia has somehow survived and is flourishing in life, which-

• 8:09Patrick Bet-David?

  Is she still openly talking about it, or she's kind of moved on and doesn't want to talk about it?

• 8:12Speaker 02

  Well, actually, I started a nonprofit 501(c)(3) called Epstein Justice. And we're seeking, we want two simple things. We want to know why the government is covering up child abuse. If you cover up a crime, you're aiding and abetting that crime. So we want to know why the government is aiding and abetting child abuse. And we-

• 8:32Patrick Bet-David?

  She's the one right there, Alicia Owen?

• 8:33Speaker 02

  That is Alicia. And- We want the perpetrators to be prosecuted and Alicia is an associate director of Epstein Justice.

• 8:42Patrick Bet-David?

  So now, to give a little bit of context on the Franklin cover-up. So Lawrence King is coming up in a Republican Party. He's a superstar. He sang at the 1984 and 88 RNC.

• 8:56Speaker 02

  1984, yeah.

• 8:57Patrick Bet-David?

  1984, yeah. He sang, so, you know, people are looking at this guy as a superstar, you know, potentially. Who knows what's gonna happen with him? And then there's the 30, 40 million dollar scam, which he goes away for the money, but nothing related to the events that were taking place with underage kids and, you know, the sex and all the stuff. That's the scandal that was happening with this, right? Could you give a little bit more context about the story of Franklin cover-up?

• 9:25Speaker 02

  Well, Lawrence King ran the Franklin Credit Union in Omaha, Nebraska, and he used that as a front for his child trafficking network. And what happened was, he was able to stave off federal audits for a number of years. I think four. And then he was audited and he came up 40 million dollars short. So a Nebraska subcommittee formed to look at his looting of the Franklin Credit Union because he hadn't been audited in a while. But then, when they started to form, people in social services came to them and they said, "King is running a nationwide pedophile network." And they'd had various reports about King running a nationwide pedophile network.

• 10:08Speaker 02

  So then the subcommittee started to look at those allegations too. And they had an amazing investigator, his name was Gary Caridori. And he found a number of victims. Actually, I had his records and he had a list of 60 victims. And that was my job, was to find these victims and get them to talk when I wrote the Franklin Scout. And a lot of the victims don't really use social security numbers. They're marginalized. They've come from lower socioeconomic dysfunctional backgrounds.

• 10:42Speaker 02

  They've been molested repeatedly and drugs was always the carrot for most of them. So they were given drugs and then at a certain point they had lost their youthful marketability and then they were just expunged by the network. And so ultimately what you have there is a very dysfunctional individual. That's gonna go on to commit crimes and thereby compromise their own credibility. And we saw a lot of that. And I was able to find a number of victims and get them to talk to me. And that was tough because some of them didn't wanna talk. And some of them, it took me a while to get them to talk and then some of them really wanted to talk. But I went deep, deep, deep into this network.

• 11:24Speaker 02

  Like I said, I even got to like a blackmail photographer and um. I was very, very disillusioned by what happened with the Franklin. Ironically, the Franklin scandal is selling really well today. But it was not selling at all when it was published. And, and people thought, when I would tell them, there's this nationwide pedophile network that is for very powerful people that's connected to the CIA. People just didn't wanna hear that at that point. And I would be pitching editors and publishers and I'd be looking straight at them.

• 12:08Speaker 02

  And then I would tell them about this story and I could see the cognitive dissonance occur before my very eyes. They would think themselves, this is really a horrible story.

• 12:18Patrick Bet-David?

  You're saying there was ties with the CIA to the Franklin scandal?

• 12:20Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 12:21Patrick Bet-David?

  I've heard you talk about Bush, I've heard you talk about Warren Buffett's wife was working at the credit union.

• 12:26Speaker 02

  No, no, she, she provided money.

• 12:28Patrick Bet-David?

  She provided money, yes. So what, what is the ties to CIA and Buffett?

• 12:34Speaker 02

  I didn't find any ties to CIA in Buffett, but there's definitely CIA's to Craig Spence. And he was definitely a CIA asset. And he was the second pimp who was in Washington DC. And I managed to acquire like 200 flight logs. Like with Epstein, with the Franklin scandal, and most of them went to Washington DC. And that's where the party house was.

• 12:59Patrick Bet-David?

  And Craig Spence was a powerhouse lobbyist DC. Somebody that a lot of the folks in DC respected. So it wasn't like he was a lightweight guy, yeah, right there. Spence registered with the US State Department as a foreign agent for Japan and began lobbying for Japanese interests. So he's got a very interesting background.

• 13:23Speaker 02

  With both King and Spence, now this is my surmise. Both King and Spence came from relatively lower socioeconomic backgrounds. And King was sent to Thailand during the Vietnam War and given top security clearances. And Spence was also in Southeast Asia, reporting as an ABC reporter. And now, they both had kind of mediocre careers prior to Southeast Asia. But after Southeast Asia, it's like they come back to the US and like their, their careers just rocket. And my surmise on this is that King and Spence were, I mean, they're inveterate pedophiles.

• 14:06Speaker 02

  That King and Spence were probably busted molesting kids in Southeast Asia. And then at that point, they were turned by some dark malignant corner of our government that, that perpetuates things like Franklin and also perpetuates things like Epstein.

• 14:22Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, and he, he was apparently giving late night White House tours to boys and taking them in there and some, some very dark stuff. And I think this guy ended up dying from suicide of the, what, what, I don't know whether it was alcohol or drug. He committed suicide in a wake of Washington Times expose on his involvement with a prostitution ring and blackmail. Yeah. So dark guy on what he ended up doing.

• 14:48Speaker 02

  Well, his suicide was kind of interesting. He was at the Ritz Carlton, dressed up in a tuxedo and...

• 14:56Speaker 02

  He took an overdose, I believe of nootribulin, the antidepressant, but he had a number of notes that were scrawled out, and then he had a newspaper article that was found right next to him, and it was about CIA assets, or agents that were forced to testify. And, uh, cuz there was a grand jury that was gunning for him at that point. I don't know, that grand jury is very corrupt, I don't know, but I think that with Craig Spence, Craig Spence was a lot like Jeffrey Epstein.

• 15:24Patrick Bet-David?

  Was Craig Spence more like Jeffrey Epstein, or Lawrence King?

• 15:27Speaker 02

  I would say that Craig Spence was more like Jeffrey Epstein.

• 15:29Patrick Bet-David?

  In what ways?

• 15:30Speaker 02

  He had the connections, he had the power. Um, I would say that King wa- or Ghislaine Maxwell was analogous to Larry King. As far as, Ghislaine Maxwell built the machine that enabled Jeffrey Epstein to get kids, and Lawrence King built the machine that enabled Craig Spence to get kids.

• 15:53Patrick Bet-David?

  Is there a link between Greg, uh, Craig Spence and Epstein? Did they ever meet each other, or no?

• 15:58Speaker 02

  No, what's interesting about, there's one link that I know of. William Barr was the Attorney General under Bush I that covered up Franklin, and then he was also the Attorney General under Trump's first administration, and he covered up Epstein. So William Barr is a cover-up guy, and he's been with the CIA forever. And it's even on his Wikipedia page that he was in the CIA at a very young age.

• 16:28Patrick Bet-David?

  No, I mean, you see, uh, didn't he and Epstein actually go to school together, or they were at a summer camp together? There was some kind of a picture from them when they were kids?

• 16:37Speaker 02

  There wa- okay, so I was given a picture of Jeffrey Epstein at Interlaken Summer Camp.

• 16:43Patrick Bet-David?

  Right.

• 16:43Speaker 02

  And I was given a picture of someone that looked exactly like Donald Barr, who was also attending Interlaken Summer Camp.

• 16:50Patrick Bet-David?

  Did it end up being him, or no?

• 16:52Speaker 02

  Um, that, my source said it was, but then Interlaken said it wasn't.

• 16:57Patrick Bet-David?

  This picture right here?

• 16:58Speaker 02

  Yes, that's the picture. Now that looks a lot like William Barr.

• 17:05Speaker 02

  But my source says it was and Interlaken says it wasn't, so that's a wash.

• 17:12Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so outside of the fact that the cover-up is tied to one name, which is Barr, that kind of worked on both cases together, there is no other direct affiliation or connection with not even Ghislaine to her father, Robert Maxwell, that's tied to Craig Spence. There's no ties.

• 17:31Speaker 02

  I haven't found any, no.

• 17:32Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, alright, so let's bring it up to today with Epstein.

• 17:38Patrick Bet-David?

  You know, these stories have become more and more. You have the Diddy scandal that just got finalized. You got the Epstein one that's going up that they have a press conference on September 3rd. You have the recording that was dropped, the six hours of recording that was dropped, the interview that they did with, I said Todd Blanch, I'm gonna say his name correctly, Todd Blanch spent six hours with Ghislaine Maxwell, and this is July 24th or 25th, that was just dropped a few days ago. Have you had a chance to listen to the recording and see what was said? Was there any new things you heard in there that you hadn't known before?

• 18:12Speaker 02

  Well, this is kind of interesting because someone called me before it came out and said, "We're gonna get it and we want you to read it." But the Department of Justice reneged, and so I had to read it when it came out with everything.

• 18:27Patrick Bet-David?

  The person that called you, I don't need names, but the person that called you, are they in right now? Are they working for the government right now? Are they an outsider?

• 18:35Speaker 02

  They're an outsider with a lot of Jews.

• 18:37Patrick Bet-David?

  Somebody we would know or not?

• 18:38Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 18:39Patrick Bet-David?

  We would know this person?

• 18:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, you would know.

• 18:41Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so this person has a connection with the insider that they wanted to give that to you, but they didn't?

• 18:45Speaker 02

  Well, they, the transcripts were gonna be given to him, and he wanted me to read them, to see, because he knows about my expertise in this area, so. But they reneged, the Department of Justice. It's like with everything, the Department of Justice is with Jeffrey Epstein. It reneges on his promises.

• 19:06Patrick Bet-David?

  Why do you think they did that? What's your speculation?

• 19:09Speaker 02

  I have no idea. I have no idea. Why they reneged in this particular instance. I don't know.

• 19:16Patrick Bet-David?

  Did you have a chance to go through it and hear what things she had to say?

• 19:19Speaker 02

  Well, I did. I mean, there wasn't really a lot there.

• 19:23Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, I didn't hear anything.

• 19:23Speaker 02

  I mean, she exonerated Donald Trump.

• 19:27Speaker 02

  And actually, she had told a former CBS 16 Minutes producer that Epstein had blackmail material on both Clinton and Trump. But in this, I mean, it wouldn't be difficult. There would be a lot of, it would be very advantageous for her. Now, I'm not saying Donald Trump is, I'm not saying he isn't, but it would be very advantageous for her to exonerate Donald Trump because she gets moved to a cush prison and hopefully she doesn't get a pardon. I mean, I'm really hoping that she does not get a pardon.

• 20:02Patrick Bet-David?

  You think she will?

• 20:03Speaker 02

  I, I hope not. She led a lot of lambs to the slaughter and she's a vile, evil woman, so I really hope she doesn't get a pardon.

• 20:11Patrick Bet-David?

  Got it. Okay, so how did you start even from the beginning with Epstein? I got the Franklin cover-up story, so now you're seven years there, they don't want to do anything with your book. You meet this fellow who is the only one, you said, what's his name, Maliki McCork?

• 20:29Speaker 02

  Maliki McCork.

• 20:30Patrick Bet-David?

  Maliki McCork, who's the one that's willing to entertain it. And then later on, you know, you, your interest into Epstein, how did that Epstein story fall on your lap?

• 20:40Speaker 02

  Well, with the Franklin scandal, when I was meeting with editors and publishers trying to get something done, I had, I was represented by a fairly big agency and then I gave them the Franklin book proposal and they dropped me. And then I had another very good agent, James Fitzgerald, try to sell the book and he couldn't. But I would be meeting with editors and publishers and I would tell them about the Franklin scandal and I could see, as I said earlier, the cognitive dissonance in their eyes. They would say to themselves, "This is a horrible story. I need to help Nick Bryant." Or, "I can just write Nick Bryant off as crazy right now and have a nice meal with my family tonight." So, they all went that way.

• 21:24Speaker 02

  And I was surprised because I had some, as I said earlier, some really good friends in the media. So, when this book came out and we could get no traction, I was talking to crazy people on podcasts, I was, I went through a deep period of despondency.

• 21:40Speaker 02

  And then these reports about Epstein started coming up. And this is like 2012. And I saw that a grand jury, I mean, it was very obvious that he'd been molesting underage girls, but then I saw that a grand jury had exonerated him of molesting underage girls. And that's exactly what happened with the Franklin scandal. So I just felt, you know, I know a lot about this and I've kind of thrown myself into this area. I've spoken at a lot of big anti-child trafficking conferences or anti-trafficking conferences. And actually, I contributed a peer-reviewed chapter about trafficking with a number of

• 22:24Speaker 02

  people that work with trafficking victims that are psychiatrists and psychologists. So I've been received in that world pretty well. But I felt like I should go check this out, see what, you know, what's going on. What did you learn? Well, I went to Fort Lauderdale, Florida. Beautiful Fort Lauderdale, Florida. It was my first time in beautiful Fort Lauderdale, Florida. And then I just started knocking on doors, the thing that I do. And I ultimately got the Black Book, Epstein's Black Book. Which Ghislaine says does not exist. Well, I've got it and it's on the internet, so, you know.

• 23:06Speaker 02

  I mean, the Black Book has all of Epstein's contacts. I mean, a lot of them are pedophiles and a lot of them aren't. But I got the Black Book. I don't know if you've ever revealed how you got the Black Book. I got it from an attorney who was representing some of the victims. It's kind of interesting how the Black Book came into my possession. Alfredo Rodriguez was the house manager of Jeffrey Epstein. And he ripped it off. And his grand plan was to sell it to attorneys that were launching civil suits at Jeffrey Epstein. And he contacted an attorney and said he had the Holy Grail to Epstein and that he would, alls he wanted was $50,000.

• 23:48Speaker 02

  So the attorney called the FBI, the FBI did a sting, and then ultimately they impounded the Black Book and Alfredo Rodriguez, who was given 18 months for that. And so...

• 24:01Speaker 02

  I ended up getting the Black Book and in the Black Book, under Massage, there's a number of names. There's like 175 names. And I started calling those girls, most of them are girls, and and a lot of them were the victims. And they told me about being flown around to different places. And they also told me about being flown around to an island. And at that point, I realized I'm dealing with a network that's very much like Franklin, that it was covered up and also it's flying underage kids around.

• 24:41Speaker 02

  And I just, I went back to New York with the Black Book. And now, the pool of editors and publishers that I could pitch it to was significantly reduced at this point because of pitching the Franklin scandal. But I pitched it and nobody would touch it. Nobody would touch it. And I sat on it for three years. And then finally Gawker, I met John Cook, who is the editor in chief of Gawker, and they published it. And then by, at that point, I had flight logs too. So we published the flight logs and we published the Black Book. And it's kind of funny, we redacted the names of the adult, or the numbers of the adults.

• 25:26Speaker 02

  And then we redacted the names of the last names of the victims and then also their phone numbers. There it is. Yeah. So with the Black Book, we published it. And then the floodgates opened on the Black Book. I mean, it was kind of funny. Someone was waiting for someone to take the chance with the Black Book. And then, and then at that point, the floodgates just opened. And I mean, tons of ink have been dumped on articles about the Black Book since I published the Black Book.

• 26:06Patrick Bet-David?

  So no one's interested, no one's calling you. Has anybody done a, have you gone to a, one of these JSA or authentic, you know, Heritage auctions to find out, to authenticate that this is the actual black book? Has anybody authenticated it?

• 26:26Speaker 02

  Well, I authenticated, the provenance is through the FBI. The FBI got it from Alfredo Rodriguez.

• 26:34Patrick Bet-David?

  And then you got it from the FBI?

• 26:35Speaker 02

  No, and then the FBI gave it to an attorney who I got it from.

• 26:38Patrick Bet-David?

  So, so Alfredo gave it to the FBI?

• 26:41Speaker 02

  No, no, the FBI impounded it, he did not give it to them.

• 26:44Patrick Bet-David?

  So, so FBI impounded it, FBI then gave it to the attorney, and then you got it from the attorney, and it's the same exact one?

• 26:51Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 26:52Patrick Bet-David?

  So, why would the FBI give it to that attorney in the first place?

• 26:57Speaker 02

  What's interesting, I've found, I don't know the exact mechanisms involved in that, but the Department of Justice was really gung ho on covering up Epstein at all. And I think that there were some people in the FBI that had some very strong misgivings about it.

• 27:18Speaker 02

  I don't know exactly why the FBI gave it to the attorney, but that's my surmise on that.

• 27:26Patrick Bet-David?

  Got it, okay. So, so has any unique person, I talked to Michael Wolff the other day, he's got 100 hours of conversations with Epstein at his place, at his private residence in New York. Steve Bannon has about 15, 16 hours when he was prepping him for how to recreate his brand in a media limelight and, you know, originally I thought it was Bannon's, but apparently Epstein's estate owns that recording, so Bannon does not, based on what Michael Wolff told me when I had him on. Has anybody knocked on your door, anybody interesting knocked on your door to actually see the black book that you have?

• 28:04Speaker 02

  I mean, we put it up on the internet and it's

• 28:08Patrick Bet-David?

  No, to actually physically see it?

• 28:09Speaker 02

  No.

• 28:10Patrick Bet-David?

  Would you sell the black book?

• 28:11Speaker 02

  I mean, the thing about the black book is it's all over the internet. At this point, and there's a unredacted ver- there are multiple unredacted versions of it. So, it's all over the internet. And when I say black book, I'm not saying the people that are in there are exclusively perps.

• 28:29Patrick Bet-David?

  Of course.

• 28:30Speaker 02

  But, but a lot of them are, a lot of them aren't. It i- it is, Alfredo Rodriguez called it the Holy Grail and it is the Holy Grail to a certain degree because it does show all the people that Epstein dealt with. And a telltale, I'm, I'm want to say this categorically, but a telltale sign is if there's a lot of numbers,

• 28:53Speaker 02

  it means that Epstein dealt with them quite frequently. And Alfredo Rodriguez circled people that he said were in cahoots with Epstein as far as the child trap.

• 29:02Patrick Bet-David?

  And who were some of those names he circled?

• 29:05Speaker 02

  There, uh, billionaire Glenn Dubin, Alan Dershowitz, Leslie Wexler, um, Ghislaine Maxwell, Jean-Luc Brunel.

• 29:18Speaker 02

  Uh, actually Donald Trump's name is circled too. And, uh, Ehud Barak, the former Prime Minister of Israel. So, there's a lot of powerful people.

• 29:28Patrick Bet-David?

  And these are friends of his?

• 29:31Patrick Bet-David?

  Is Alfredo saying these are friends of his?

• 29:33Speaker 02

  They're saying, what he's saying when they're circled is that Epstein was in cahoots with them as far as the child pandering.

• 29:43Patrick Bet-David?

  Got it, okay.

• 29:46Patrick Bet-David?

  Ehud Barak, which I asked Michael Wolff, you know, he, he's estimated 36 times he visited Epstein's, uh, private residence in New York. What, what else did you learn about him and some of the others as you're investigating this a little bit deeper?

• 30:02Speaker 02

  Well, you can get double corroboration in the respect that the ones that are circled and then Virginia Guffre litigated with Ghislaine Maxwell. And during those depositions, she named a number of her perpetrators. And Ehud Barak's name is circled by Alfredo Rodriguez. And Virginia Guffre named Ehud Barak as a perpetrator. Actually, a very nasty individual.

• 30:27Speaker 02

  Ghislaine Maxwell's name is circled and Virginia named her as perpetrator. Leslie Wexler's name is circled and Virginia named him as a perpetrator. John Luke Brunel's name is circled and Virginia named him as a perpetrator. Alan Dershowitz's name is circled and Virginia named him as a perpetrator. And William, Bill Richardson, he was the former governor of Mexico, or New Mexico, and also Clinton's energy czar. And his name is circled and Virginia named him as a perpetrator. So you can get double corroboration between Rodriguez and Virginia Gufray. I mean, it's not airtight and solid, but it's double corroboration.

• 31:11Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, and he passed away in 2014, 2015, Alfredo Rodriguez. Did you ever have a conversation with him?

• 31:16Speaker 02

  I did not, no.

• 31:17Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay. And, and who did he tell that the ones that were circled were corroborated?

• 31:23Speaker 02

  He said that the ones that were circled, he told that the FBI, that the ones that were circled were people that he felt were in cahoots.

• 31:33Patrick Bet-David?

  And who from FBI told you that Alfredo said that?

• 31:36Speaker 02

  Um, the attorney.

• 31:38Patrick Bet-David?

  And is that documented, or is it just you're speculating that the attorney told you that?

• 31:44Speaker 02

  I would say it's the same provenance, but I wouldn't go 100% on it, no.

• 31:49Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so we're assuming that this is fourth person, Alfredo told the FBI, FBI told the lawyer, the lawyer's telling you, so we have to believe what the FBI is saying, that what the, what the lawyer's saying is true?

• 32:03Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 32:04Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay. So the credibility there is not really that high for me, because that goes three tiers.

• 32:09Speaker 02

  I understand that. I mean, I think the credibility, the provenance on the black book, I think is 100%. Because it's been released since I released it.

• 32:21Patrick Bet-David?

  Of the book, of the book being real.

• 32:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:23Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, have you showed it to anybody? Have you, uh, do, do you, uh, did you bring it with you today or no?

• 32:29Speaker 02

  No, I mean, Gawker published it in its entirety.

• 32:33Patrick Bet-David?

  Who owns the black book today?

• 32:35Speaker 02

  It's, it's out there, anybody can own it. I mean, it's been downloaded.

• 32:40Patrick Bet-David?

  No, I get that, the actual, physical, real black book.

• 32:43Speaker 02

  I, I, okay, so what I got was copies of the black book.

• 32:49Patrick Bet-David?

  Got it, so you don't have the original?

• 32:51Speaker 02

  No, I do not have the original.

• 32:52Patrick Bet-David?

  The original black book, who owns the original black book?

• 32:55Speaker 02

  It was Epstein.

• 32:57Patrick Bet-David?

  I know, so where is the original one now?

• 32:59Speaker 02

  That I do not know.

• 33:00Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so, so in this story, we have not the original black book, we have the copy of the copy of the copy, and we're taking feedback from Alfredo Rodriguez that told the FBI, that told the lawyer, that the lawyer told us, and so that again, loses a lot of credibility. Have you ever spoken to the FBI agent that spoke directly to the lawyer? Have you spoke to that person?

• 33:23Speaker 02

  I have not, because it was an ongoing investigation. The FBI has not given me any information whatsoever. But, as I said, I've got no doubts that what Ralph, the, the copy of the black book that Alfredo Rodriguez got was exactly what he had ripped off from Epstein.

• 33:43Patrick Bet-David?

  How do you know that? You have to realize, I'm a guy that's very skeptical with this, but also.

• 33:48Speaker 02

  Actually, there's, there's an FBI report on it. I can, I can send you the FBI report.

• 33:52Patrick Bet-David?

  So the FBI report shows the exact copies that match what you have?

• 33:56Speaker 02

  The FBI said that what they have was acquired from Alfredo Rodriguez, who acquired it from Epstein.

• 34:05Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so what were, you know, with all the movement that's going on today with Epstein? I think the second judge just prevented it from, uh, uh, did you see that one, Rob? I'm sure you saw it as well, uh, Nick. Uh, uh, "Judge denies request to unseal the Epstein files." Now, this is a second one.

• 34:24Speaker 02

  That's through the grand jury.

• 34:26Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so you, you do, from the looks.

• 34:29Speaker 02

  Which is, which is very different. Okay, so Epstein was arrested in 2019. And there was a grand jury prior to that, that indicted him on one count of child trafficking, I believe it was. So, that information.

• 34:45Speaker 02

  Wouldn't really give us a lot of, the news or the documentation from that grand jury would not give us a lot of information. Because it was very limited in its scope if it only indicted Jeffrey Epstein on one count of child trafficking.

• 35:01Patrick Bet-David?

  Are you, are you from the school of thought that the, the current administration does not want to release this? And if they don't, what are you speculating are the reasons why they don't want to?

• 35:11Speaker 02

  My thoughts on this are, well, you had Pam Bondi, let's walk it back a little bit. You had Pam Bondi in February say that she was going to release the Epstein files. It was called the Epstein list or, the Epstein list and the Epstein files are kind of synonymous. She said that she was going to release it and then she released a nothing sandwich. Now, the black book that she released was the black book that I released. Except, the black book that she released had everybody's name redacted. We only redacted the numbers of the people, the adults in the black book and then the people that were potentially victims who redacted their last names and also their numbers.

• 35:55Speaker 02

  So, she said that she'd been burned by the FBI field office in New York City and that's why she, and that's why she served us a nothing sandwich. And then she, you know, she keeps on putting herself in a, in a bigger and bigger hole because then, she says that she's going to release everything and that the only matters related to national security will be redacted. So now she has to tell us why a bunch of child molesters have anything to do with national security. So she keeps digging herself into a deeper hole. And then she said that there's a trunkload of evidence that's being vetted.

• 36:34Speaker 02

  And here's what, shortly after Epstein was arrested in 2019, the FBI sought to open his safe. And they pulled out, according to the New York Times, hundreds if not thousands of discs and images of underage girls. And Business Insider reported that they also pulled out hard drives.

• 36:56Speaker 02

  So there were FBI agents or whatever dark malignant corner of the government that deploys people like Epstein, they were looking at that stuff that night. I mean, I'm willing to put a lot of money on it, that they were looking at that stuff. So for her to basically insinuate that they were, they just started looking at this stuff in 2025 is, I mean, that's utter bunk. That stuff was, it's like, so they impounded it, all these disks and hard drives from Epstein's safe, and then it was in the corner of the FBI where it was collecting dust? I mean, that's completely ridiculous. The FBI or whoever vetted that stuff knows exactly what was on it, long before Pam Bondi became Attorney General

• 37:41Speaker 02

  of the United States.

• 37:42Patrick Bet-David?

  So then why are they playing this game?

• 37:46Speaker 02

  I think there's a couple of reasons. I think that, that we have a political system that's rife with blackmail. And I firmly believe that the people that hold the pictures are pretty powerful people that have a lot of juice. And there was a Tennessee, a federal Tennessee congressman that came out about a year and a half ago, his name is Tim Burchett, and he actually said, "My colleagues are being blackmailed in honey traps." So a sitting

• 38:31Speaker 02

  US congressman said that "My colleagues are being blackmailed in honey traps," which I think is kind of amazing. And I wrote a book called Confessions of a DC Madam: The Politics of Sex, Lies, and Blackmail. And it was from the perspective of Henry Vincent. And he ran a gay escort service, and Craig Spence would use his gay escorts to compromise politicians. And we also saw that in the Franklin scandal. So I got to a blackmail photographer, and I was trying to get my mind around this, because this is something that you really don't read about in books. Now you can, because I wrote a book called The Franklin Scandal, but you really don't read about it in books. And I got to this blackmail photographer who

• 39:13Speaker 02

  was unctuous, but I think that it's kind of funny with...

• 39:20Speaker 02

  With people that you cultivate as sources, some of them are unctuous. They're not the paragon of morality. But, and this has happened to me a few times, where early on, they're pretty honest to you. And then later on, something switches. And then, and I had this with this blackmail driver, but I'll give you the metaphor that he used. He said, "Once you're compromised, it's like you're on a big, beautiful yacht. And you can have anything you want on that big, beautiful yacht. And it's a beautiful day. And there's nothing but good times on the yacht.

• 40:04Speaker 02

  But if you decide to get off the yacht, the people on the yacht are gonna make sure that you drown." And I think that that's a very good metaphor for how blackmail works in our, in our political system.

• 40:18Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so you're, again, Nick, I'm trying to go as specific for the audience to get it. So, you're saying there's a blackmail operation going here. That's your claim?

• 40:29Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 40:30Patrick Bet-David?

  Is that fair to say? Okay, so you're saying there's a blackmail operation going here. When I sat with Michael, Michael claims that if, if Jeffrey Epstein was a Mossad agent working for Israel, he would have been terrible because he had such a big mouth and he couldn't stop talking. And he would always tell everyone's business to everybody. He was always talking, talking, talking, talking, talking, right? So maybe Israel could have used him, but in what ways? Who knows? And by the way, I haven't even asked you, is your speculation that the blackmail was tied to an intel agency where I'm sending assets, information over back to Israel? Is that where you're at as well, or no? Because I know where-

• 41:14Speaker 02

  Well, let's take a look at that. People ask me this all the time. Was Jeffrey Epstein connected to Mossad? And-

• 41:24Speaker 02

  I say Jeffrey Epstein very well might have been connected to the Mossad. But I don't really see the dark side of the CIA that does this type of thing, allowing the dark side of the Mossad to compromise American politicians on American soil without getting a cut of that intelligence. So I think that, actually, there's a dark side of the Mossad, there's a dark side of the CIA, and I think that they were working together. And the amount of power that was used... So Alexander Acosta was the US Attorney. And he was asked, I mean, he gave Jeffrey Epstein a sweetheart deal, and he gave all the co-conspirators blanket immunity.

• 42:07Speaker 02

  And he was getting vetted to be Trump's Labor Secretary, and he was asked, "Why did you go so light on Epstein?" And he said, "I was told that Epstein was intelligence, and that I had to back off." Now, there's only two people, I've talked to a number of legal scholars about this, there's only two people in the government that can tell a US Attorney to stand down. One is the Attorney General, and one is the President. A US Attorney isn't gonna go out on a limb and cover up a bunch of child molesters unless he's told to. And the Attorney General isn't gonna go out on a limb and cover up a bunch of child molesters unless he's told to.

• 42:49Speaker 02

  And the sweetheart deal was in 2007, so George Bush II and Alberto Gonzalez, George Bush II was the President, Alberto Gonzalez was his Attorney General. And that really shows how much power was deployed. I mean, that came from the top. That came from Mount Olympus to cover this up.

• 43:08Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay. So, came from Mount Olympus to cover this up.

• 43:16Speaker 02

  Hi, I'm Nick Bryant, and if you wanna connect with me, connect with me on Menech. You can ask me about Epstein Justice, and also, all things Epstein.

• 43:28Patrick Bet-David?

  One, he's given assets. Two, why else could be the reason why they're protecting this guy? Epstein.

• 43:37Speaker 02

  Because, and you talk about Epstein, Michael Wolf talking about Epstein, there was a article, I believe it came out in 2001, it was from the Evening Standard, the UK. And it was, I think, probably the best article that's been written about Epstein. And it was talking about Epstein being a spook, and it was saying that Epstein had said that he was CIA, but he no longer says that. So, that's a, it was written by Nigel, I can't think of his last name, but it's, it's a Daily Standard article, and, or a Nightly Standard article, and it's, it's a very good article.

• 44:15Patrick Bet-David?

  It's a Nigel Farage, or?

• 44:16Speaker 02

  Nigel, I want to say Ross, but I think, I can't remember his, his last name.

• 44:21Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 44:22Speaker 02

  Evening Standard, from the UK, 2001. And all his homes were wired for audiovisual blackmail. According to two victims, his New York home, there was a secret, and this is exactly like with Spencer's home, there was a secret room, and it had monitors of the bedrooms and the bathrooms. And according to one victim, there were men, as in plural, sitting in this room, monitoring everything, and then another victim said that she had been in the room, but she didn't talk about various individuals monitoring anything.

• 45:00Speaker 02

  And his, I mean, every residence that he had, had clandestine cameras. So, to say that he wasn't in the business of blackmail, I think, is very naive.

• 45:15Patrick Bet-David?

  I thi- I think he was. I actually think he was. I'm just trying to see what, okay, so maybe let's talk about stuff that is currently happening. Rob, do you have a, the link from CNN? This is what CNN just posted today, okay? And it's not normal for CNN to share a clip like this. If you don't have it, Rob, I'll just text it to you.

• 45:37Patrick Bet-David?

  So CNN, we, some would say, pretty friendly to the Clintons. They don't normally go after the Clintons. And just out of nowhere, while everybody is kind of trying to move on with linking Epstein and Clinton, especially on the left, this is a video that they post on their Instagram account, I think just earlier today, if not yesterday, talking about an event that the Clintons recognized Ghislaine Maxwell in 2013 after Epstein scandal. So if you can play this clip, Rob, go for it.

• 46:07Speaker 05

  CNN has uncovered photos and videos showing Ghislaine Maxwell being honored at a prestigious Clinton Global Initiative Conference in 2013, years after she was publicly accused of helping Jeffrey Epstein groom and abuse minors.

• 46:20Speaker 04

  May I have all of you who we are honoring today, please stand up so that you can be recognized.

• 46:29Speaker 05

  Maxwell was at the 2013 conference representing a nonprofit she founded, the Terramar Project for Ocean Conservation. Information reviewed by CNN shows Maxwell was on a list of people who were approved for complimentary access to the conference, and that access would have been personally recommended by either Bill or Hillary Clinton, according to a source familiar with the event. In response, a representative of the Clinton Foundation told CNN that 600 comp tickets were given out that year, and Maxwell's access was made at the staff level, which included former President Clinton's office. At the time that Maxwell was honored, British and American newspapers and tabloids had been covering Maxwell's involvement in the Epstein scandal for years, starting with a publicized lawsuit that mentioned her in 2009.

• 47:12Speaker 05

  In fact, she had been served a subpoena for that lawsuit while leaving a different Clinton Foundation event that year, which was reported at the time by the New York Post. The allegations surrounding Maxwell gained international attention in 2011, when Virginia Giuffre told the UK's Daily Mail that Maxwell had recruited her as a teenager for Epstein and had been involved in the abuse herself, which Maxwell denied at the time. But in 2021, she was convicted of five sex trafficking-related charges and sentenced to 20 years in prison. Clinton staff had barred Maxwell from events by 2011, according to a and information that we reviewed, which makes her appearance at the Clinton Global Initiative two years later even more striking. But a representative of the Clinton Foundation told CNN,

• 47:56Speaker 05

  if that happened, it wasn't widely communicated. Maxwell was in Clinton's orbit for years, attending a reception for donors at the White House in 1993, and even co-hosting a fundraiser for Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign in 2007. A spokesperson for Bill Clinton told CNN, this is about someone working on ocean conservation, attending a charitable conference 12 years ago, along with thousands of other people, and nothing more. As we have consistently said,

• 48:22Speaker 02

  What do you think about this? What they missed was Ghislaine Maxwell was at Chelsea Clinton's wedding. That was in 11 or 2010 when she was at that wedding. So, I mean, obviously, the Clintons felt enough about Ghislaine Maxwell to invite her to their daughter's wedding, which was the hottest ticket in town. So Ghislaine Maxwell has been hooked up with the Clintons on a number of occasions. What's happening now is, and Trump had come out and said, and I'm not a Republican, I'm not a Democrat, I've got no dog in that fight, but Trump came out and said that the Epstein thing is a democratic hoax,

• 49:04Speaker 02

  and a number of people are getting subpoenaed. Alberto Gonzalez is getting subpoenaed. The Clintons are getting subpoenaed. James Comey is getting subpoenaed. And actually, Alexander Acosta, his name wasn't among the people that were getting subpoenaed. But now, he is going to, I guess, volunteer to testify. So I thought that that was kind of telling. I don't really know if we're going to get a lot of information from that. What we need, as far as Epstein goes, is an independent congressional commission to look into it. I think that as long as it's just the government looking at itself,

• 49:47Speaker 02

  We're gonna be subjected to the same perfidiousness regarding Epstein as we've already been subjected to.

• 49:53Patrick Bet-David?

  What are the right questions we should be asking today? Today, with everything that's going on, because, you know, the more and more you get of a story, people get to burnout mode. It's kinda like, okay, I'm burnt out at this point. I really don't wanna talk about this anymore. I already have an opinion on it. What I think is going on, are you gonna drop the story? You're not gonna be dropping a story. Am I gonna see anything with this? Are we gonna have anybody getting arrested for what they did to these innocent children? When I'm watching a documentary the other night with my oldest son, and you see one of the girls comes over to the house in Palm Beach. Eventually cops find out that there's too many young kids going from West Palm Beach over the bridge to this guy's house, so they start monitoring, getting consistency with stories. One girl goes there to give him a massage. She takes his clothes off, and she says, "I don't wanna do this." And he says, "Well, can you at least go find a girl?

• 50:38Patrick Bet-David?

  Every girl you bring, I'm gonna give you $200." So she starts bringing a bunch of girls. She brought 24 girls, and she got paid $200 each time. The youngest girl she brought-

• 50:46Speaker 02

  You're talking about Haley Robinson.

• 50:47Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, the youngest girl she brought was 14 years old. She made a few thousand dollars. Then she goes and talks to the cops. Then they say, "You know, you're guilty because you're involved in this." And she's like, "I didn't know I was guilty. How about all the other girls?" So, at this point, we are very much on information overload. There's documentaries on Ghislaine, there's documentaries on Epstein. But what should we be asking today that maybe hasn't been asked? What are those questions?

• 51:16Speaker 02

  Well, what's really important that we ask, and 89%, according to a CBS poll, 89% of Americans want everything. I'm Jeffrey Epstein. The question that we really need to ask, and this is why we need an independent commission, is why is the federal government covering up child trafficking? When you cover up a crime, you're aiding and abetting that crime. So why is the federal government aiding and abetting child trafficking? That should be the first question. And I think, once that question is answered, then we can get to the bottom of Jeffrey Epstein.

• 51:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so why do you think they're hiding it? Because to me, when I'm looking at this, this is what I see. Yesterday, President Trump announced that moving forward, if you burn the flag, you're facing up to one year of jail time. Okay? Some people don't like that. I support it. I've been asking for this for years, to say that we have to... I don't think it's okay for people to burn the American flag in a country that gave them freedom. I don't think it's okay to do that. I'm uncomfortable with that, myself. That can be debated and go back and forth. Ah, yeah, okay, yes, no, maybe, great. Guess what? Blanket statement. You like it, you don't like it, you burn the flag, you're going to jail. I think we're one of the only countries that you don't go to jail for burning the flag. Alright, cool, that's out there.

• 52:36Patrick Bet-David?

  So to me now, if we had the Diddy, if we had the Epstein, if we had the Craig Spence, if we had the Lawrence King, if we have all these stories, if we have even the Roy Cohen, who was, you know, he was more doing the male escorts at his place and getting all this blackmail model, and this goes back, this has been going for many, many years, right? What do you do to prevent the next Epstein, the next Diddy? What should be the crime to protect those innocent children if the crime and the punishment isn't big enough? This is gonna continue happening?

• 53:08Speaker 02

  Well, that's the thing. I mean, with the government now, they released that very strange document on July 6th that said that there were 300, over 300 gigabytes of information taken from Jeffrey Epstein's possessions are safe, and that over 1,000 victims had been abused. Now, I agree with that 100%, but it said that Epstein had no co-conspirators? I mean, that's absolute bunk, that Epstein didn't engage in blackmail. You can definitely prove that there were co-conspirators, for sure. I mean, without a doubt.

• 53:46Speaker 02

  I mean, The New York Times wrote an article about six co-conspirators: Ghislaine Maxwell, Sarah Kellen, Leslie Groff, Adriana Ross, Nadia Marcinkova, and Haley Robinson, who you were talking about. And then Politico named three or four of them also. So, and actually, Kellen, if you look at the Palm Beach Police Department notes on the investigation, Kellen comes up all the time, as far as leading lambs to slaughter. So, if we really wanted to go about this, how the...

• 54:24Speaker 02

  How the Department of Justice is taking down the mafia is they get little fish and then they indict them on multiple RICO predicates and then they're looking at the rest of their life in prison and then they roll over on the big fish. We know about, we know about Kellen, we know about Groff, we know about Marcin Kova, we know about Ross. They knew how big this was and they knew who, exactly who a lot of the perpetrators were. But they've been unscathed and actually they were named in the non-prosecution agreement as, there was, the non-prosecution agreement gave everyone, all the co-conspirators blanket immunity, but they were specifically named in the non-prosecution agreement.

• 55:08Speaker 02

  So, that would be the place to start, is we get them, excuse me. We get them into a, indict them on multiple counts of child trafficking, which wouldn't be that difficult, and nobody's listened to the victims in this. That's what's really horrible about it. The government, obviously, had all that child abuse material that was empowered from Jeffrey Epstein and I'm willing to bet that they didn't even look for any of, any of the victims. So, there's a lot of victims and when the Epstein Victims Conversation Program was

• 55:50Speaker 02

  started, which I'd like to get into a little bit, 200, only 225 of the victims came forward. So, and the government is stating over 1,000 and Epstein trafficked underage girls for probably 25 years, so over 1,000 is definitely a reasonable extrapolation. So, what we need to do is start indicting the co-conspirators, the procureurs. And if they're looking, child trafficking in the federal system is a heavy sentence, it's 15 to life. And if they're looking at seven life sentences or five life sentences, I mean however money

• 56:32Speaker 02

  we wanted to throw at them, they would roll over on the perps in a heartbeat. So, what we need is the Department of Justice to do its job.

• 56:43Speaker 02

  We need the FBI to do its job. And I started an organization, it's called Epstein Justice. Your audience can go to EpsteinJustice.com. We have webinars every month on how we can put... Basically, what we're trying to do is form a congressional commission. And we're gonna need a majority in the House, or we're gonna need a majority in the Senate. An independent congressional commission that will incorporate...

• 57:11Patrick Bet-David?

  You're not gonna get that.

• 57:12Speaker 02

  Well, we're gonna try for it.

• 57:14Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, no, I'm glad you're trying it, you're just not gonna get that.

• 57:16Speaker 02

  Well, you know, I might be deluded, but I'm optimistic, and...

• 57:21Patrick Bet-David?

  You know why? So, I would... There aren't many people more than me that would love to see that.

• 57:26Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 57:27Patrick Bet-David?

  But for whatever reason, this topic makes people on both sides very uncomfortable. What is Thomas Massey's involvement right now with you? Because I think he wants to see something like this come out, right?

• 57:38Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 57:38Patrick Bet-David?

  So, credit to him. Who else, like Thomas Massey, are coming out saying, "Hey, we have to find out what happened here"?

• 57:44Speaker 02

  That bill has, I believe, over 34 cosponsors at this point. Both from the right and from the left. You've got very conservative guys like Tim Burchett, and then you've got very liberal types like AOC. They're coming together on this. So, there's a number of cosponsors out there for that bill. And there's gonna be a...

• 58:10Patrick Bet-David?

  AOC's on that list as well?

• 58:11Speaker 02

  AOC.

• 58:12Patrick Bet-David?

  Can you zoom in on that list to see who it is? So, these are the names?

• 58:15Speaker 02

  How many do we have now? I mean, they keep adding.

• 58:18Patrick Bet-David?

  So, we got Massey, okay.

• 58:23Patrick Bet-David?

  Ilhan Omar on that list. Interesting. Brad Sherman, that's California. That was my congressman in the area I was in. Pelosi, keep going lower, keep going lower.

• 58:36Patrick Bet-David?

  Who else do you see there? I don't see AOC on that list.

• 58:41Speaker 02

  I saw her.

• 58:45Speaker 02

  How many do we have at this point?

• 58:47Speaker 06

  Uh, 23 it says here.

• 58:48Speaker 02

  Oh, 23.

• 58:49Speaker 06

  22 Democrats and one Republican.

• 58:53Patrick Bet-David?

  So you have, and what is the bill? What is the bill?

• 58:56Speaker 02

  Is that the latest? Look for the latest one. It's 851. Try 851.

• 59:04Speaker 02

  It wants an investigation into Epstein. Or, if it's not 851, it's 581. H.R. 581, yeah.

• 59:23Patrick Bet-David?

  An act concerning judgment? I don't think this is it.

• 59:25Speaker 02

  No. Try 851.

• 59:29Speaker 00

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• 59:54Speaker 01

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• 1:00:35Patrick Bet-David?

  No, neither one of them. It's not 581 or 851. But you were saying AOC's on the list. It looks like majority what we just looked at with Thomas Massey was Democrats with only one being a Republican.

• 1:00:48Speaker 06

  House Resolution 581.

• 1:00:50Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, there we go. Can you see who's on the list, Rob?

• 1:00:53Speaker 06

  Co-sponsor's 44 now.

• 1:00:54Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, 44. Zoom in a little bit. And it's 33 Democrat, 11 Republican. Marjorie Taylor Greene's on it. Ro Khanna's on it. Tim Burchett's on it. So Lauren Boebert's on it. Um...

• 1:01:08Patrick Bet-David?

  Corey Mills is on it. Tom Barrett is on it. Rashida Tlaib is on it. AOC is on it. Nancy Mace is on it. Jamie Raskin is on it.

• 1:01:23Patrick Bet-David?

  Nancy Pelosi is on it. What else you got? What else you got? You're going through it fast. I'm trying to see. Cat Brad Sherman, same name. Okay, you got a few names on there. So 44 names that are on there now.

• 1:01:38Speaker 02

  But AOC should be on there.

• 1:01:39Patrick Bet-David?

  I said her name. She is on there.

• 1:01:41Speaker 02

  Okay, good.

• 1:01:41Patrick Bet-David?

  She is on there.

• 1:01:42Speaker 02

  So what we need to do is make sure that the government doesn't cover up child trafficking anymore. Don't you think that that's what we need to do?

• 1:01:52Patrick Bet-David?

  To me, I'm sick of it. I just want accountability. I want to know what's going to happen for these guys to be held accountable.

• 1:01:58Speaker 02

  Okay, so what we need is an independent congressional commission.

• 1:02:03Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 1:02:03Speaker 02

  To look into this. That's what Epstein Justice is all about.

• 1:02:06Patrick Bet-David?

  In order for that to happen, you need a major support from the top to push forward.

• 1:02:13Speaker 02

  Well, you need a majority in the House and a majority in the Senate. But if we don't stop this, think about it. Our government, and I love the United States of America. I love the United States of America. Our government, and the United States of America is different than its government. Our government is aiding and abetting child trafficking. We have to stop it. The political machine is unwilling to stop it. So it's up to us to stop it. And this is our opportunity right now. This is going to be the best opportunity in our lifetimes to stop this. And that's why we need people to come to Epstein Justice.

• 1:02:57Speaker 02

  We've got a petition that you can sign. You can get involved with us. We have webinars. We do need donations, but we're growing. We keep growing. And it's a very good feeling that we keep growing. But if this doesn't happen, then the government is going to... We're going to allow the government to aid and abet child trafficking. We cannot let, as Americans, we just can't let that happen.

• 1:03:21Patrick Bet-David?

  I got you. So what else can you do to prevent the next Epstein, Diddy, you know?

• 1:03:27Speaker 02

  We have to... Okay, so Epstein Justice...

• 1:03:31Speaker 02

  Has two objectives. We want the government to tell us why it's embedding child trafficking and we want the perpetrators to be prosecuted. Very simple, baseline morality. But we need, the first question, why are you covering up child trafficking? We have to know that. As Americans, we need to know why our government is covering up child trafficking. And until we have that answer and we can stop the mechanisms that are involved in it, then it's going to continue. And we have to stop it. It happened with the Franklin scale, it's happening with Epstein.

• 1:04:15Speaker 02

  I've been approached by many people over the years that talk about other networks that are active. And Epstein was really ominous. There was a lawsuit from the Virgin Islands against Epstein's estate. And the Virgin Islands ultimately got $105 million and then they'll get half the sale of Little St. James. And there was a very good Melbourne Daily that reported that Epstein was trafficking

• 1:04:55Speaker 02

  girls that were as young as 11 or 12 in the Virgin Islands. And I know a couple of therapists, one's a very eminent psychologist. And both believe that they have represented girls that were molested by Jeffrey Epstein when they were under the age of 10, or by Epstein at all, under the age of 10.

• 1:05:21Patrick Bet-David?

  Wait, under the age of 10?

• 1:05:23Speaker 02

  10, yes.

• 1:05:24Patrick Bet-David?

  This is Epstein?

• 1:05:25Speaker 02

  Epstein, yes. And I think that that's one of the ways in which, you know, the media hasn't called for justice at all. And... And I think if there was a real investigation, these guys are psychopaths. I mean, these guys are psychopaths. If you want a 10-year-old, they'll get you a 10-year-old. But anyway, both these therapists, who are very, one of them is very eminent, tried to get settlements from the Epstein victims' compensation program. And they were denied, and both of them feel because the cover story that the media has embraced is that the youngest Epstein victim was 14 years old. So although we have evidence of Epstein trafficking girls younger than that,

• 1:06:10Speaker 02

  according to the Melbourne Daily, the age. And then we have these two therapists who are very, very solid therapists, saying that they have clients that they believe were trafficked under the age of 10. So the media has done everything it possibly can to sanitize Jeffrey Epstein. I'm not aware of a media outlet that has said, "Hey, we need justice here." Have you ever seen an article from mainstream media that said, "We need justice here"? I mean, they're very good at digging up salacious dirt, but no one said, "We need justice here." I haven't seen it. I've read a lot of Epstein articles. I haven't seen it.

• 1:06:49Patrick Bet-David?

  I saw a story about, you know, one time 12-year-old triplets were flown to Epstein for his birthday. Is that true?

• 1:06:57Speaker 02

  They were bought in Eastern Europe. Yeah.

• 1:07:01Patrick Bet-David?

  12-year-old triplets?

• 1:07:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:05Patrick Bet-David?

  I mean, who brought them in is the question?

• 1:07:08Speaker 02

  According to Virginia Giuffre, Epstein and Brunel had some kind of connection in the government where they could get these girls visas. Which wouldn't surprise me, given everything that they got away with for all those years.

• 1:07:25Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, this is the one that Vice reported on unsealed documents from 2015 civil action by Giuffre, which included her deposition recounting this claim. Additional investigative reporting such as the Mindsight News corroborated the details, noting that court documents record that details from the investigation include allegation of 12-year-old triplets were flown in from France for Epstein's birthday and flown back the following day after being sexually abused.

• 1:07:51Speaker 02

  Virginia describes an orgy and what should were 12-year-olds there. So, yes, and we've got the Melbourne newspaper, daily newspaper saying 11 and 12, and then we've got these therapists saying under 10. So, if the media really want, why am I able to get this information? And the media, the mainstream media with its seemingly infinite resources cannot get this information. What is up with that?

• 1:08:24Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, wasn't there a movie with, what's his name? Liam Neeson and Maggie Grace?

• 1:08:33Speaker 02

  Called Taken, yes.

• 1:08:34Patrick Bet-David?

  Where she gets taken and goes to a, you know, sex trafficking place where she's on the, he finally finds him on, the girls are coming out dancing and he's behind the glass and they're watching and they're bidding 10 grand, 20 grand, 30 grand, 40 grand, 50 grand, so, you know, that movie, and then at the end of the movie, I think he goes up and kills the person, whatever it is. So, it's not like this stuff doesn't exist and it doesn't happen. This has been going around for a long time. The question is, what is the crime? Who is the, a comparable person like an Epstein or a Diddy or a Craig Spence that was caught?

• 1:09:16Patrick Bet-David?

  What is the worst punishment that a country that is a, you know, westernized country that's given to people like that, that we can go back and see a pattern there? Who have we punished for somebody that did this? Say somebody else ran something like this. Is there another Epstein or a Diddy that did this that got the death penalty, that went to jail for God knows how many years? Do those stories exist? Case studies exist?

• 1:09:38Speaker 02

  Okay, the FBI, when the Department of Justice was going to engage, what happened was there was a 14-year-old girl. Who told her stepmother that she'd been molested by Jeffrey Epstein? And her mother brought her to the Palm Beach Police Department and she was from a lower socioeconomic

• 1:09:59Speaker 02

  part of Palm Beach. If there is such a thing in Palm Beach, but anyway, she was from a lower socioeconomic part of Palm Beach. And she was able to describe Epstein's, the interior of his home and also his anatomy. And that's what started their investigation. And by the time, and now there's numbers that are conflicting here. They had five, the statements of five victims. But then there were 17 corroborating statements. And from what I understand, this number has fluctuated, but they had at least, they knew of at least 17 victims. And they were ready to indict Jeffrey Epstein on four unlawful counts of sexual activity with a minor and one count of lewd and lascivious molestation, which would have put him in jail for a very long time.

• 1:10:44Speaker 02

  And then it was given to this grand jury by, and the special prosecutor was Lana Ballovic. And she called two of the victims. She could, she could have called many more, but she called two. And one was 16 years old and she'd been molested by Epstein when she was 14. And one was 18, she'd been molested by Jeffrey Epstein multiple times when she was 16. And she was calling one of the girls a prostitute. I mean, she skewered these girls. Wow. Skewered them. Wow. And I mean, the transcripts, DeSantis has released the transcripts, so the transcripts are out there.

• 1:11:25Speaker 02

  And that's the grand jury that said Jeffrey Epstein hadn't molested a single child.

• 1:11:32Speaker 02

  So, Michael Reiter, he is a hero in this. He was the chief of the Palm Beach Police Department. He became, he said, this is the worst. Failure or something, I'm gonna paraphrase it, the worst failure in modern judicial history. And he went to the Department of Justice, he said, "You have to do something about this." Now, the Department of Justice had a list of thirty-four Epstein victims, I've got that list. But then it knew of forty more, but yet it covered it all up. So, that's where we need to start, is the Department of Justice and why it had thirty

• 1:12:16Speaker 02

  or forty victims, underage victims of Jeffrey Epstein's, and why didn't it do anything? Why did, why was nothing adjudicated? Other than Jeffrey Epstein getting eighteen months in county jail, and serving thirteen.

• 1:12:28Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, so I'm, I'm, I'm, I just asked the question, who was the most notorious case similar to Jeffrey Epstein that got the death penalty or went to jail for life? Right? First one that comes up is Lawrence King, which we talked about earlier, the Franklin cover-up, the scandal. And he was accused of running child trafficking rings involving politicians and elites, convicted for fraud, but never convicted of the abuse, not life or death, not a perfect parent, nothing, right? So then there's Mark Dutroux from Belgium.

• 1:12:57Speaker 02

  From Belgium, yeah.

• 1:12:58Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, Mark Dutroux from Belgium, wealthy contractor, serial child, child abuser, kidnapped, imprisoned, and sexually abused multiple girls, two died of starvation in his hidden dungeon, that's the guy right there, okay? That's nineteen nineties, he had alleged ties to elite sex networks, many Belgians believed there was a cover-up protecting high-ups, he was sentenced to life in prison.

• 1:13:21Speaker 02

  What's interesting to, but that is, actually, there were law enforcement people that came forward and said there was a cover-up. And there's footage of, I think, around two hundred thousand Belgians hitting the streets, they're all dressed in white, and they're protesting the cover-up that happened.

• 1:13:40Patrick Bet-David?

  Can you pull that up, if they're protesting, Mark Dutroux protest? Protest, white? There's a video of that, yeah, if you pull it up, you should be able to see it.

• 1:13:53Speaker 02

  I, I see a picture of you.

• 1:13:55Patrick Bet-David?

  I, I typed in Mark Dutroux.

• 1:13:59Speaker 02

  Belgium, white march.

• 1:14:03Patrick Bet-David?

  No, it's a bigger one than this. If you go on Google, you'll see the picture. It's massive. It's not small.

• 1:14:07Speaker 02

  It's huge. Yeah, it's huge.

• 1:14:08Patrick Bet-David?

  It's massive. It's not a small thing that happened. So, uh, um, this is the 25 year anniversary. There it is.

• 1:14:15Speaker 02

  There it is.

• 1:14:15Patrick Bet-David?

  Right, there it is. So, that's a legit march of people saying, hey, what happened?

• 1:14:20Speaker 02

  That's more than a legit march.

• 1:14:21Patrick Bet-David?

  What I'm saying is, I mean, if it needs to get to that, to get the attention of what happened here, maybe that's a good case study. All I'm trying to do is get case studies.

• 1:14:29Speaker 02

  Okay, so that's what we need. I, I mean, if the Belgians are willing to hit the streets to protest, uh, pedophile network being covered up, Americans have to. Don't you think that Americans need to do that?

• 1:14:41Patrick Bet-David?

  If this, to me-

• 1:14:42Speaker 02

  Would you be willing to do that?

• 1:14:44Patrick Bet-David?

  To me, if, if this is, everybody has their own issues. When the, when the Trump administration put up, uh, what their 20 issues were in the 47 campaign, 2024, this wasn't necessarily a top 20 issue for them, the Epstein. But it was for a lot of people that supported, that drove for this to become a reality. A lot of people were pushing for this. And I do think as somebody who's got a family, I think people want to know what the hell happened here. I definitely do, or else I wouldn't be doing all these interviews. Why am I talking to you? Why am I talking to Michael Wolff? Why am I talking to Whitney Webb multiple times? Why are we talking to these? We shouldn't be doing it because it's more constant, uh, stories of it coming up, but we're interested in it. Let me give you another one here that I see.

• 1:15:25Speaker 02

  We have to keep it alive. I mean, it's happened in, uh, Portugal, it's happened in France, it's happened in, I, I mean, it, there are multiple, and it happened in Mexico, there are multiple cases.

• 1:15:36Patrick Bet-David?

  There needs to be a real punishment. There's a guy in UK, his name was Richard Huckel.

• 1:15:40Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:15:41Patrick Bet-David?

  He abused 200 children, sentenced to life in prison, later murdered in prison, 2016. Okay, Richard Huckel, H U C K L E.

• 1:15:49Speaker 02

  And then you have Jimmy Seville.

• 1:15:51Patrick Bet-David?

  Jimmy Seville is another one, yes.

• 1:15:53Speaker 02

  Who was part of that, and that was hooked up to, uh, uh, UK intelligence through the, uh, pedophile informa- information exchange.

• 1:16:01Patrick Bet-David?

  But, but did, did anything that Epstein did to the, the victims, did, did anyone get killed by Epstein or his people?

• 1:16:10Speaker 02

  I do know this, that some of those, and I saw this with the Franklin scandal. Some of those pedophiles were vicious to some of these girls. I can say that.

• 1:16:24Patrick Bet-David?

  Epstein, you're saying Epstein was not?

• 1:16:27Speaker 02

  I'm saying that there were some victims of Jeffrey Epstein's that were pandered to some very vicious individuals.

• 1:16:33Patrick Bet-David?

  Such as?

• 1:16:35Speaker 02

  Um, there's a woman that told me that she was pandered to a very powerful guy, a former prime minister who was pretty vicious to her.

• 1:16:44Patrick Bet-David?

  Do we know the name?

• 1:16:46Speaker 02

  I mean, I could say the name, but then

• 1:16:53Speaker 02

  the woman, I would rather, you know, for her sake, not say it.

• 1:16:58Patrick Bet-David?

  She hasn't said it?

• 1:17:00Speaker 02

  Not publicly, no. Not publicly and not what she told me.

• 1:17:04Patrick Bet-David?

  Is this a living PM?

• 1:17:06Speaker 02

  Yes, yeah.

• 1:17:08Patrick Bet-David?

  And somebody got killed?

• 1:17:09Speaker 02

  No, but he was, he was very violent to her.

• 1:17:13Patrick Bet-David?

  He was violent to her? He was aggressive?

• 1:17:16Speaker 02

  She said that he put her in the hospital. And you see that with the Franklin scandal and other situations. Like with Dutroux, he started killing girls. Um, and you see unbelievable sadism in the Franklin scandal with, with the victims.

• 1:17:36Patrick Bet-David?

  Um, yeah, so to me that, because when you look at these cases, what gets the attention is if that's taking place. You have the story of Louis Gravito, Colombia. Serial child killer convicted of murdering over a hundred children. Sentenced to 1853 years, reduced to, uh, uh, under Colombian law, no death penalty. Died in 2023. That's the guy right there. But he killed a hundred children. Then you have another one called John Wayne Gacy. Serial killer who raped and murdered at least thirty-three young men. Executed by lethal injection.

• 1:18:11Speaker 02

  He was more into, uh.

• 1:18:13Patrick Bet-David?

  Boys.

• 1:18:14Speaker 02

  Well, older, I think a lot of his victims were older than eighteen years old.

• 1:18:19Patrick Bet-David?

  So his was older than eighteen years old?

• 1:18:21Speaker 02

  He might have.

• 1:18:22Patrick Bet-David?

  So you're saying at least he followed the laws, what you're saying?

• 1:18:24Speaker 02

  No, I'm not.

• 1:18:25Patrick Bet-David?

  Come on, Nick.

• 1:18:26Speaker 02

  But no, no, what I'm, what I'm saying, if you're talking about, if you're talking about pedophilic perpetrators.

• 1:18:32Patrick Bet-David?

  So he would ID them before he did anything to them or kill them?

• 1:18:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think he ID'd them.

• 1:18:36Patrick Bet-David?

  What a responsible killer you are, buddy.

• 1:18:38Speaker 02

  Um, so we see these in multiple cultures, but Lawrence, Lawrence King did no time for molesting children. Craig Spence did no time for molesting children. Ghislaine Maxwell, the deal that she got is mind-boggling and now, I mean, she was put into a dormitory very early on, which is pretty cush. I mean, people that have served a lot of time or have done a lot of their sentence and have, and inmates that have exhibited exemplary behavior are generally put, or a number of times and they're getting close to the end of their, uh, bed, they're put into dormitory style living and, and she was put into dormitory style living,

• 1:19:19Speaker 02

  uh, very quickly. And now she's in a even cush prison in Texas, which is really, really horrific.

• 1:19:26Patrick Bet-David?

  And by the way, when Craig Spence died, he wrote a note, if I'm not mistaken, Rob. Didn't Craig Spence write a note in the hotel? And he says, "Take this as my form of resignation" or something, or something like that. "Hey, chief, consider this my resignation effective immediately. As you always said, you can't ask others to make a sacrifice if you are not ready to do the same. Life is a duty. God bless America." This is after he killed himself, taking all those seven Xanax, small packets of Xanax.

• 1:19:51Speaker 02

  Well, it, I've, I've heard of different, um, pills that he took to overdose, but yes, he, and he was in a tuxedo and he was at the Ritz-Carlton in Boston.

• 1:20:00Patrick Bet-David?

  What a way to go.

• 1:20:01Speaker 02

  So that's how.

• 1:20:01Patrick Bet-David?

  What a way to go. So he wanted to have a black tie event when he killed himself.

• 1:20:04Speaker 02

  But he was never arrested.

• 1:20:08Speaker 02

  indicted for molesting a single child.

• 1:20:10Patrick Bet-David?

  So to me, there's a difference between, you know, when you're put on that, what is that list that you go to any city, you're on a list, what is that list called?

• 1:20:19Speaker 06

  Sex offender registry.

• 1:20:20Patrick Bet-David?

  Sex offender registry, which by the way, it's a very effective thing because, you know, and you can't even go and see how many sex offenders live around you. I mean, that is a public humiliation, old school type of way of doing things, right? So that's one. But when you're talking about a guy like Epstein, Ghislaine, you know, if Ghislaine, if she is given a pardon and she's released, how do you think the market's going to react if that happens?

• 1:20:48Speaker 02

  Well, I hope that there's tremendous outrage, but we need outrage now. I mean, Ghislaine Maxwell, I mean, Jeffrey Epstein didn't even have to register as a perpetrator in New Mexico because he pandered underage girls to both Bill Richardson and Bruce King, who were the governors of New Mexico.

• 1:21:09Patrick Bet-David?

  He bought the property from the governor, the 8,000 acre property.

• 1:21:13Speaker 02

  So, we need something now.

• 1:21:16Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:17Speaker 02

  That's why Epstein Justice is really important. I mean, don't you think that if our government's not going to do it, that us as Americans, we have to create a movement? Now, movements are an interest, are difficult. There was the Labor's Rights Movement and at one point, people that wanted unions were considered far-left radicals. There was a civil rights movement. There was the Women's Rights Movement. Now, we have to come together and make sure that the children have a right not to be molested. Now, if you look at the numbers of kids that are molested in the United States, it's pretty mind-boggling.

• 1:22:02Speaker 02

  Now, this is from the CDC, according to the Centers for Disease Control, 25% of underage girls have been molested and people in the field think that that's conservative, and 5% of underage boys. Now, there are studies that go as high as 16% on underage boys, but if we just stick with the CDC numbers, there are 50 million Americans that have been molested as children. 50 million.

• 1:22:27Speaker 02

  We need to stop this and we have to and this is what's really important about Epstein. If we allow the Department of Justice to cover up a proven trafficking network like Epstein, that sends a message to millions of Americans that you have no voice and no hope for justice. That's another reason why we have to put our foot down and say no more.

• 1:23:00Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, I don't disagree. By the way, there's another list when I had this guy named Anthony Weiner on, I don't know if you're familiar with him. I asked him a bunch of different questions, but there's another article that just came out talking about the number of names tied to Epstein that have died from murky circumstances, suicide or different things. Rob, do you have that list?

• 1:23:21Speaker 02

  I do.

• 1:23:21Patrick Bet-David?

  If you have that list, if you want to pull it up, I don't know if it can be zoomed in or not if it's blurry.

• 1:23:26Speaker 02

  This guy is pretty savvy tact wise. You got a good guy.

• 1:23:29Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, he's very savvy. Zoom in a little bit more, Rob. So Jeffrey Epstein, obviously he was found hung and the last text message he sent when Michael Wolff asked him, "How are you doing?", he says, "I'm just hanging in there." That was his last text from his lawyer to Michael Wolff. "I'm just hanging in there." And then he was found hung, obviously dead. Steve Hoffenberg, 77, believed natural causes, found at home. Efrain Reyes, after speaking investigators, he died from what was it? He died from? Covid-19. Covid-19. Jeffrey, obviously alleged suicide.

• 1:24:04Speaker 02

  I wrote an article on her. It's on my blog, Nick Bryant NYC, and I knew Virginia and I, there was so much apocrypha that came out after her suicide, that the Mossad had killed her, that she was alive and living with Jeffrey Epstein. I wrote an article to kind of set all that straight. So if you're-

• 1:24:23Patrick Bet-David?

  So you think she died from a suicide?

• 1:24:25Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 1:24:26Patrick Bet-David?

  You think she really did die from suicide?

• 1:24:28Speaker 02

  Yes, I do, yeah.

• 1:24:28Patrick Bet-David?

  Really? Okay. Any of these other names, before I go through, was there anything that was?

• 1:24:32Speaker 02

  Well, Alfredo Rodriguez had cancer. Joe Rickary died of a heart attack, I believe. I mean, Roy Black, I mean, he was 80. Marvin Minsky was 88.

• 1:24:45Patrick Bet-David?

  A little bit lower, Rob.

• 1:24:46Speaker 02

  Ronald Eppinger, he's kind of an interesting case because-

• 1:24:51Speaker 02

  He was busted for child trafficking.

• 1:24:55Patrick Bet-David?

  He's a first pimp with Virginia.

• 1:24:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, so he's kind of an interesting case that. And then he ultimately gave her to another guy that molested her.

• 1:25:07Speaker 02

  And the FBI got onto Eppinger and then it got onto this guy and then Virginia was in bed with him and the FBI did a predawn raid and kicked the door open.

• 1:25:16Patrick Bet-David?

  What's the other guy's name?

• 1:25:17Speaker 02

  I can't think of it. There's a lot of Epstein stuff on my RAM. But look into it, yeah. This guy will tell us.

• 1:25:28Patrick Bet-David?

  That is interesting. So Ronald Eppinger.

• 1:25:33Patrick Bet-David?

  And what was he known for?

• 1:25:35Speaker 02

  He was busted by the FBI for trafficking.

• 1:25:38Patrick Bet-David?

  He was.

• 1:25:38Speaker 02

  Humans, yeah.

• 1:25:39Patrick Bet-David?

  So what ended up happening to him?

• 1:25:41Speaker 02

  He spent the, I think, the rest of his life in jail, but don't quote me.

• 1:26:46Patrick Bet-David?

  Interesting. Well, any final words, Nick, before we wrap up? Anything else that the audience should know? Or look into, or any final thoughts you want to share? I know September 3rd press conference is coming up. What are you expecting from that?

• 1:27:01Speaker 02

  I'm expecting that the legislators, that there's other legislators there that are going to support this. But if we go to our justice system and expect our justice system to fix this, it's not going to happen. It's just not going to happen. It's like a dog chasing its tail. That's why Epstein Justice is very, very important. We need a movement of people, like what happened in Belgium, to say, "That's it. We've had enough. We have to do something about this." And short of that, this is going to continue.

• 1:27:45Speaker 02

  And there's going to be more children molested. And as I said earlier, according to the CDC, there's over 50 million Americans that have been sexually abused when they were underage. So we have to put our foot down on this and just say, "No more." If we're not going to fix that huge endemic problem until we fix our justice system, and our justice system actually prosecutes people that molested children, and that has to be a permanent concern of ours. I mean, for... I understand the government crossing certain lines.

• 1:28:26Speaker 02

  But this is a line in the sand that should not be crossed. American children should not be trafficked in America, and their molesters shouldn't be molesting them with impunity because the Department of Justice refuses to prosecute them. I mean, that's what's really important here. And Epstein Justice...

• 1:28:49Speaker 02

  We're taking a big step and I'm really heartened by the way that we're growing.

• 1:28:56Speaker 02

  We're really going. There's a lot of people like you that are outraged. I've been outraged forever. I was outraged when I got the Black Book and I started calling these victims. And they started telling me about being flown around and I was outraged about the Franklin scandal that no one, none of the perps.

• 1:29:12Patrick Bet-David?

  Has Elon Musk at all been involved? Has he done anything with you guys or Massey or no? Cause I know Elon has got a relationship with Massey.

• 1:29:18Speaker 02

  Massey has pledged his support to Epstein Justice, which is great.

• 1:29:24Patrick Bet-David?

  Elon has not yet.

• 1:29:25Speaker 02

  Elon has not, no.

• 1:29:26Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, got it. Sounds good. Well, Nick, where can people find you? I know we gave the EpsteinJustice.com. Anything else you want to share before we wrap up?

• 1:29:34Speaker 02

  EpsteinJustice.com. There's also a petition there, a change.org petition that you can sign. You can join us in our webinars. We have webinars every month on how you can put pressure on your legislators to get them to support what we're doing and to seek justice on behalf of the victims. And as I said, if we don't, this is going to be our best opportunity to stop this. And if we don't stop it now, we're not going to be able to stop it. It's going to keep growing. And 89% of Americans want to see the government with transparency on this. We're with, it's not like, it's, I mean, we're talking 89% of Americans.

• 1:30:15Patrick Bet-David?

  Who is the 11% that doesn't? That's who I want to know.

• 1:30:18Speaker 02

  The 11% that doesn't want to know. They attack me quite often on the internet and on social media. I've met them.

• 1:30:24Patrick Bet-David?

  Nick, appreciate your work. Keep at it. And I hope more people look into it and get more curious about this topic because we just want to find out what happened. It was one of the things that some of the administration promised, not necessarily Trump. I don't put this on Trump because even when Campos interviewed him on Fox News, Campos Duffy interviewed.

• 1:30:45Patrick Bet-David?

  Him, he specifically said, "I don't know about Epstein." He said yes to 9/11, he said yes to JFK, but he didn't say yes to 9/11, yes to Epstein. Cash Patel did, Bongino spoke about it a lot, as well as Pam Bondi, and we got nothing so far. So hopefully, the leadership team who fumbled this will come through and reveal and release something.

• 1:31:07Speaker 02

  Do you think that's gonna happen?

• 1:31:09Patrick Bet-David?

  I don't know if it's gonna happen. I think, I don't, I think everything happens, Nick, with pressure.

• 1:31:15Speaker 02

  And that's why Epstein Justice is so important.

• 1:31:17Patrick Bet-David?

  If there's, if there's pressure of this in the right way, and it becomes more and more and more and doesn't go away, then eventually, yes. If not, it'll go away and then we'll wait another five years for another story to come out, and in the interim, the next Epstein is plotting his moves and he's doing what he's doing.

• 1:31:36Speaker 02

  The only reason why the Epstein story came out, I firmly believe this, is Michael Ryder, the chief of the Palm Beach Police Department. He would not back down, and if it wasn't for him, this wouldn't have come out. If it wasn't for the Franklin, the Nebraska Senate Subcommittee that looked into the Franklin scandal, this never would have come out.

• 1:31:58Patrick Bet-David?

  Him?

• 1:31:59Speaker 02

  It's, yes. He's a hero.

• 1:32:02Patrick Bet-David?

  Has he been interviewed? Is he alive?

• 1:32:03Speaker 02

  He was interviewed on a Netflix called, uh, Filthy Rich.

• 1:32:12Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, okay, that's the documentary.

• 1:32:13Speaker 02

  But he, he is a hero. Michael Ryder is a hero.

• 1:32:16Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, Michael, wherever you are, kudos to you, buddy. Nick, thank you for coming. I appreciate your time. Thank you so much. Take care, everybody. Bye-bye, bye-bye.

• 1:32:23Speaker 02

  Hi, I'm Nick Bryant, and if you want to connect with me, connect with me on Minnect. You can ask me about Epstein Justice and also all things Epstein.

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