"PornHub Is A Crime Scene!" - Laila Mickelwait EXPOSES PornHub Execs Shocking Child Abuse COVER UP! | PBD Podcast | Ep. 514

Laila Mickelwait joins Patrick Bet-David to reveal SHOCKING details about PornHub’s alleged illegal practices and their new owners, Ethical Capital Partners. From underage trafficking to hidden email exchanges and lawsuits involving high-profile companies like Mastercard and Visa, this interview dives deep into the controversies surrounding the world's largest porn platform. Discover the secrets they don’t want you to know. 📕 PURCHASE LAILA’S BOOK “TAKEDOWN”: https://bit.ly/3ZuJb5r ------ 🦁 50% OFF BLACK FRIDAY VT SPECIAL: ⁠https://bit.ly/3COGKSb⁠ https://bit.ly/3COGKSb 🧢 PURCHASE THE LIMITED EDITION VT BLACK OUT HAT: ⁠⁠https://bit.ly/48lYfEY⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/48lYfEY 🎄 VT CHRISTMAS COLLECTION: ⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4hDCt3S⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4hDCt3S?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=product_shelf 📕 PBD'S BOOK "THE ACADEMY": ⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3XC5ftN⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/3XC5ftN 📰 VTNEWS. AI: ⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3Zn2Moj⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/3Zn2Moj 🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON SPOTIFY: ⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3ze3RUM⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/3ze3RUM 🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON ITUNES: ⁠⁠https://bit.ly/47iOGGx⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/47iOGGx 🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON ALL PLATFORMS: ⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4e0FgCe⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4e0FgCe 📱 CONNECT ON MINNECT: ⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3MGK5EE⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/3MGK5EE 👔 BET-DAVID CONSULTING: ⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4d5nYlU⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4d5nYlU 🎓 VALUETAINMENT UNIVERSITY: ⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3XC8L7k⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/3XC8L7k 📺 JOIN THE CHANNEL: ⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3XjSSRK⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/3XjSSRK 💬 TEXT US: Text “PODCAST” to 310-340-1132 to get the latest updates in real-time! SUBSCRIBE TO: ⁠⁠‪@VALUETAINMENT‬⁠⁠ https://www.youtube.com/@VALUETAINMENT ⁠⁠‪@vtsoscast‬⁠⁠ https://www.youtube.com/@vtsoscast ⁠⁠‪@ValuetainmentComedy‬⁠⁠ https://www.youtube.com/@ValuetainmentComedy ⁠⁠‪@bizdocpodcast‬⁠⁠ https://www.youtube.com/@bizdocpodcast ⁠⁠‪@theunusualsuspectspodcast‬⁠⁠ https://www.youtube.com/@theunusualsuspectspodcast ABOUT US: Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal Bestseller “Your Next Five Moves” (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web. Like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration blog. Or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies 18 plus.

• 0:26Patrick Bet-David?

  Little over a month ago, I sat down with the new owner of Pornhub, Solomon Friedman and Ethical Capital Partners. And we had a conversation together. After the conversation, I asked a lot of questions, tough questions. Some of them were answered, some of them were not. It got to a lady named Leila Mickelwate, who is the one that started trafficking hub petition and got 2.33 million signatures to shut down Pornhub. She reached out, says, Pat, a lot of things were said, a lot of things were missed. I want to come to your podcast and talk about it. Eventually, we were able to make it work. We had the conversation today. She comes with a folder this big, showing the lawsuits they're going through, an email exchange of CEOs and executives of what's being said of taking down videos of underage porn

• 1:11Patrick Bet-David?

  that was on there while Mastercard or Visa is asking them, why is this video still on your website? She's sharing that exchange, very weird. She's talking about Bill Ackman, a guy that's worth almost $10 billion, getting involved and making a phone call to CEO of Mastercard or, you know, CEO of Mastercard or Visa, who was a former colleague that they played tennis together, saying, hey, did you know about this? And then all of a sudden, those guys took action. The amount of things that she shared with me and said, Pat, Solomon lied to you, this is her words. He lied to you when he said X, Y, Z. I want you to see this for yourself. If you know me as a family guy, I got four kids. Not a fan of this stuff that's out there, especially underage stuff. And anything having to do with human trafficking.

• 1:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Many time when we think about child trafficking, we forget the fact that there's human trafficking above 18 years old or revenge porn. A lot of that stuff that's going on right now as well. Leila broken down in ways that I had no idea. This is what she does 24/7 following these stories. Even to the point that the previous owner. Of Pornhub that ended up having tax issues, reached out to her to tell her issues that's really going on on Pornhub. Again, I want you to watch this for yourself and be the judge of whether this website should stay up or it should be taken down because that's what they're trying to do there. And I think you're gonna see some insight.

• 2:36Patrick Bet-David?

  If you enjoyed the previous one that we did, I think you're gonna love this one here today. Again, with Leila Mickelwait.

• 2:44Speaker 02

  She was from Broward County, Florida. She was missing for an entire year and she was finally found when her distraught mother was tipped off by a Pornhub user that he recognized her daughter on the site. She was found in 58 videos on Pornhub. So this is emails from the CEO. Can we tell Mastercard that it just slipped through the cracks? They want to know what we do.

• 3:04Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, they're communicating amongst each other as employees.

• 3:06Speaker 02

  They're saying, what should we do? She couldn't be older than 13 and 14 and the video was obvious. And they left it up.

• 3:11Patrick Bet-David?

  Under new ownership or old ownership?

• 3:13Speaker 02

  That was, this was the old ownership, but old ownership is the same VPs and executives that are there today, right? But there's not enforcement.

• 3:20Patrick Bet-David?

  Why are they not being held accountable?

• 3:21Speaker 02

  There's not enforcement.

• 3:22Patrick Bet-David?

  I don't get that though. Who wouldn't enforce that law? It's kids.

• 3:25Speaker 02

  I want to address something that Solomon and his partner said on this show. I mean, you could play what he actually said. It's a, it's a complete lie. They exploit and they harvest the data of every single user that visits their site. They're currently being sued in a class action. And I think we will see full criminal prosecution of the owners of Pornhub, and I hope that we do.

• 4:16Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so folks, a month ago or so, I interviewed the new owners of Pornhub, okay? Solomon Friedman, and he brought one of his associates, and we had a very good conversation together. It was to find out what's really going on because of the level of criticism that Pornhub's gotten over the years. And then, while I'm doing that, one of the things we talked about was the petition. The fact that Trafficking Hub petition has roughly, Rob, if you can show this, 2.33 million signatures worldwide. And I said, "That's very interesting." After the interview was done with the new owner, I get a message from a Laila that says,

• 4:56Patrick Bet-David?

  "Patrick, I'm the one that posted that Trafficking Hub petition, getting all the signatures, and she wrote a book called Takedown, which we'll put the link below." Then I started looking into what she's done, the interviews she's done, and I have, again, more questions about Pornhub. I thought it was the right thing to do, to bring her here to give us a different perspective, not from the owner's perspective, but from the other side, saying, "We need to do something about Pornhub." So with that being said, it's great to have you on.

• 5:22Speaker 02

  Thank you so much for having me.

• 5:23Patrick Bet-David?

  Of course. So tell me, when you watched it, like, what was it when you said, "I'm gonna reach out to Pat, I wanna have a conversation"? What part of the interview prompted you to wanna do that?

• 5:32Speaker 02

  From the beginning. I mean, from the beginning, it was clear that you were going to ask really good questions, and I wanna give you credit for what you did. As an outsider, looking at the situation and being able to go deep into the important questions, but what I realized is that you weren't getting the answers, that there was deflection, that there was lies. And I said, "Look, we have to set the record straight, because there's nothing more important than the truth." The truth is what is really going to set people free, it's what's gonna bring change in this situation, it's what's gonna bring justice. And I said, "Look, we need to actually tell the truth." And so, that's why I reached out.

• 6:12Patrick Bet-David?

  Fantastic. Now, for the audience to know, the outcome of Traffic and Hub. So I went and read what the outcome is. Rob, if you can go up a little bit so we can read that. Traffic and Hub is a decentralized global movement of individual survivors, organizations, and advocates from across a broad spectrum of political faith and non-faith, economic and ideological background, all uniting together for the single purpose of shutting down Pornhub. So it's not getting them to use better technology like Yodi. It's not getting them to use better methods of, you know, filtering things out. It's actually to shut down Pornhub and holding its executives accountable for enabling, distributing, and profiting from rape, child abuse, sex trafficking, and criminal image-based sexual abuse.

• 6:54Patrick Bet-David?

  So your outcome with Pornhub is to shut the website down?

• 6:59Speaker 02

  100%. It's not to shut down the entire porn industry. It's to shut down a corporate trafficker Pornhub because, like you just said, they have globally distributed and profited from the trauma of countless victims since 2007. And what justice looks like in this situation is not a slap on the wrist. A slap on the wrist does not deter future abusers. A slap on the wrist does not bring healing and closure to victims. So from day one, when we realized that Pornhub was not a porn site, it was a crime scene infested with videos of real sexual crime. And the crime that gets distributed, you know, it's one thing for a victim to be raped. But when that's filmed and then uploaded and then distributed for profit and pleasure

• 7:43Speaker 02

  to millions of users per day, they call it the immortalization of their trauma, where they'll never be able to get over that because it's gonna get, just like the sadistic game of Whackable, they just have to keep finding and begging and trying to take it down again and again. And victims of this kind of abuse, you know, we call it image-based sexual abuse, all the way from child rape to adult rape and trafficking and what we used to call revenge porn. They have a 50% ideation rate for suicide. So this is really a life and death issue, and so we felt from the beginning. That the call to action here was to shut down Pornhub. Because we felt like that was, you know, severe harm demands severe consequence.

• 8:24Patrick Bet-David?

  So you know, you say that and you know, you obviously know, I pushed them very hard when they were here and I, for me, it was like, what makes somebody want to be a porn star? There's certain things to it, even to the point that, you know, I'm sitting here, watching a documentary called After Porn Ends, the story of porn stars, what their life is like after they're out of the porn industry. And how do you go back to a normal life from that space? But there's a few things, Rob, can you pull up the story of New York Times? The 2020 article, right? I think it is.

• 8:54Speaker 02

  The children of Pornhub.

• 8:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Exactly.

• 8:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:56Patrick Bet-David?

  So this is the article that is disturbing to read, but I want to read it to you because I think it's stuff that we need to, I got four kids and I openly talk to my kids about this kind of stuff to prepare them for them because they're 12, 10, specifically to the 12 and 11 year old, but the eight and three, soon I'll be talking to them as well. I want to read this to you. So if you can zoom in, Rob, and we can read through this article together. So this is an article that they wrote, exact date, Rob, if you can go a little bit higher, December 4.

• 9:22Speaker 02

  December 4, 2020.

• 9:23Patrick Bet-David?

  2020, okay, so you know, so Pornhub prides itself on being the cheery, winking face of naughty, the website billboard, a times square and provides snowplows to Boston. Okay, great, next, supposedly wholesome Pornhub attracts 3.5 billion visits a month, more than Netflix, Yahoo or Amazon. This is when Yahoo was relevant that you would even mention it. Pornhub breaks in money from almost 3 billion ad impressions a day. One ranking lists Pornhub as the 10th most visited website in the world. And then as you go lower, you'll see this, yet another side of the company. Its site is infested with rape videos. It monetizes child rape, revenge pornography, spy cam videos of women showering, racist and misogynist content.

• 10:08Patrick Bet-David?

  Footage of women being asphyxiated in plastic bags. A search for girls under 18, no space, or 14YO, no space, leads in each case to more than 100,000 videos. Most aren't of children assaulted, but too many are. After a 15 year old girl went missing in Florida, her mother found her on Pornhub and 58 sex videos, sexual assaults on a 14 year old California girl were posted on Pornhub and were reported to authorities. I can go on and on and on, reading this entire article, it's very disturbing. When this came out. There's a story that came out on how Pornhub reacted to this, which if I'm not mistaken, they took down 10 million videos.

• 10:49Speaker 02

  They took down, they took down now today. So if we, I want to update those stats for you. Because by the end of 2020, so trafficking hub started in February of 2020. By the end of 2020, they had capitalized on coronavirus. So they had done some crazy PR stunts, which they're really good at doing, offering free premium to the entire world. Their views and their traffic skyrocketed. So by the end of 2020, they were actually, according to the CEO, the fifth most trafficked website in the world. They had 170 million visits a day, 62 billion visits per year. And they had enough content being uploaded that it would take 169 years to watch if you put those videos back to back.

• 11:34Speaker 02

  Now, they had 56 million pieces of content on Pornhub at the end of 2020. Today, the story that's told here in this book, today, they have been forced to take down 91% of the entire site. They went from 56 million pieces of content in 2020 to 5.2 million pieces of content today. In what Financial Times has called probably the biggest takedown of content in internet history.

• 12:00Patrick Bet-David?

  That's insane. So now it's 90% because the article I went at.

• 12:03Speaker 02

  91%.

• 12:03Patrick Bet-David?

  91%. At the time it was 81, 80%, the one that I read. That they take down. So let's, let's go with that. Let's continue with that. So 56 million to 5.2 million. So their argument may be Solomon Friedman, they bought it in March of 2023. Okay? So when I'm asking them, when you bought the company, there was a part when I said, okay, you bought the company. Of the things that you said the company has changed, oh, we no longer do that. Oh, we no longer do this. Oh, we no longer do that. Great. How many of the old executives and management team that was there when this was happening are no longer there that you came in, you clean house, you fired them and they're still there? What do you know about the old executive team versus the new one?

• 12:47Speaker 02

  I thought that was a brilliant question because when they purchased a hastily concocted pop-up private equity firm that called themselves Ethical Capital Partners, purchased a distressed asset in March of 2023.

• 13:02Patrick Bet-David?

  Right.

• 13:02Speaker 02

  That was Pornhub and all of its parent, you know, sister sites, sorry. I want to, first of all, tell you that Pornhub is owned by a parent company that used to be called MindGeek. They recently renamed it to ILO because they're trying to distance themselves from their toxic reputation as peddlers of crime.

• 13:18Patrick Bet-David?

  Back in the day, so was MindGeek pre, prior to Ethical Partners?

• 13:21Speaker 02

  Yes, then they renamed it, but this is a history. This is the, this is the trajectory of Pornhub from the beginning. So they started out as Mansef. When their owners got in trouble, they, you know, it was six, it was over $6 million.

• 13:34Patrick Bet-David?

  Mansef, Manwin, MindGeek.

• 13:36Speaker 02

  Yes, then they got in trouble with the law, then they had to sell it. They sold it to a German entrepreneur named Fabian Tillmann, who actually is, you know, one of the people that came forward to help hold Pornhub accountable.

• 13:47Patrick Bet-David?

  Former owner of Pornhub.

• 13:49Speaker 02

  The former owner of Pornhub, Fabian Tillmann. He's called the Zuckerberg of porn. So he purchased Pornhub, a distressed, sorry, a Mansef. And then he purchased it and his vision was to dominate the global porn industry. So what he did, he got a $362 million loan from Colbeck Capital and he rolled up the entire porn industry under one company that he called Manwin. Manwin dominated the global porn industry.

• 14:20Patrick Bet-David?

  Fabian Tillmann?

• 14:20Speaker 02

  Fabian, exactly.

• 14:21Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, please continue, I'll follow.

• 14:22Speaker 02

  So he, yeah, so Manwin, then he got in trouble, he got arrested for tax evasion. And then he had to sell the company again. So you see a pattern here. So he sold it to CEO and COO Faras Antoun and David Tassillo. And a man who was the secret majority shareholder that purchased 61% of the site. He was unknown to anybody. He kept his identity hidden for years. We finally exposed him and found him in the midst of, you know, the trafficking hub movement to hold them accountable. His name was Bernberg Mayer. And so then he sold it to them and then it became MindGeek. And then years later, they're in legal trouble. They've been charged by the federal government for knowingly and intentionally

• 15:06Speaker 02

  benefiting from sex trafficking. You know, they lost Visa, Mastercard, Discover, PayPal, all cut ties with the site because they confirmed it was infested with videos of real sexual crime. They lost all mainstream advertisers and partners, even KY Jelly and Weed Maps will not advertise on Pornhub anymore. They were kicked off. They will not. No, they will not because of what happened, because of the exposure that happened. Okay. And then they got sold again to Ethical Capital Partners, who is now renamed MindGeek, ALO. So you could see a pattern. This is kind of what has happened over the years with Pornhub, as they get in trouble, they try to rebrand, they get in trouble, they try to rebrand, and now this is the latest iteration.

• 15:49Patrick Bet-David?

  But when you say that, what is the pattern? The pattern is who the buyers are, or the pattern is do new people come in and they're turned on by how much traffic these guys are getting, and they try to clean it up and nobody can. What is the pattern?

• 16:00Speaker 02

  It's not that they can't, they don't want to because of the business model. But I do want to go back to your question, because the question was, whose heads rolled? Who actually got fired from the company? Who left the company? And it was the CEO and the COO, who are the minority shareholders, David Tassillo and Faras Antoun, again, two men that had hidden themselves from the public for so many years until they were finally exposed and had to face the public in a parliamentary inquiry in 2021. But they were forced to leave the company.

• 16:32Speaker 02

  And they're the only ones.

• 16:34Patrick Bet-David?

  Why were they? Just because when a new company-

• 16:36Speaker 02

  Well, because of everything. It was a disaster for them.

• 16:38Patrick Bet-David?

  What is the background with Ferris, Anton, and David Tassila?

• 16:41Speaker 02

  So he was there from the beginning. They were both there from the beginning when it was Mansef. So they were, they were, you know, originals, right? From, from the, from the inception. When Pornhub was purchased for $2,000 in 2007 by a man named Matt Keiser, who was part of this original Mansef group. Um, and so they were there from the beginning and they've stayed with the company. They were forced to resign just because there was a tsunami of bad headlines. One after another. It wasn't just the New York Times. Thousands of media articles have been written exposing them. And then it was after the New Yorker did an 8,000-word expose on them that it was the final straw and they had to depart the company. And then that's when Ethical Capital came in.

• 17:24Speaker 02

  But let's ask a question. I mean, you're a businessman, right? So if you're coming in and you're saying, okay, we're going to call ourselves Ethical Capital. We're going to try to rebrand Pornhub and, and kind of try to, uh, kind of resuscitate the brand. What would be the first thing that you would do? To be able to legitimately say that you are actually a new company, fresh start. Wouldn't you get rid of all of the people who were complicit in these crimes against children?

• 17:53Patrick Bet-David?

  Number one, that's the first thing you do.

• 17:55Speaker 02

  Clean house, right?

• 17:56Patrick Bet-David?

  Of course, yeah.

• 17:57Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 17:57Patrick Bet-David?

  Now, when Elon Musk bought Twitter, let's just kind of use a case study. He bought Twitter at a time where Twitter was censoring, silencing, and, you know, doing all the things that America, even election was affected by some of the roles that Twitter played. And then we found out later on that the communication that we're having with the White House. Elon buys it, they have 7,500 employees. The next day he fires 50%, they're down to 3,750. The next week, 1250 quid. So in a week or two, he went from 7,500 employees to 2,250 employees. So first thing you gotta do. So I asked the question, who was there? So what percentage of the old employees and executives and directors and VPs that were there prior to Ethical Partners buying them to now?

• 18:38Speaker 02

  Most of them are still, the only ones I'm aware of that are gone? Our Feras and Toon CEO, the COO, David Tassillo, and then Frank Mancina, who was the CFO.

• 18:48Patrick Bet-David?

  Did you ever try to talk to those guys or no?

• 18:51Speaker 02

  I mean, if you read this, they attacked hard. They were not interested in Congress. They did not want to solve the problem.

• 18:58Patrick Bet-David?

  Tell us about it.

• 18:59Speaker 02

  They wanted to attack those who were raising the problem. Not only me, but victims. Well, really quick, I just want to finish that point about the executives because I think it's really important to know that today, the same men, I mean, the CPO, Kareem El Morazi, so he was there from the beginning. He was there, he was promoted by Feras himself to his position. Matt Colicci, where we have emails here that were uncovered in legal discovery talking about the way that Matt was discouraging taking down illegal content from the site when they were discovering it.

• 19:32Patrick Bet-David?

  Can I have, can you read one of them? Or is that something that can be read?

• 19:36Speaker 02

  Hundred percent. I mean, it might take time for me to open these up and get those.

• 19:41Patrick Bet-David?

  I wouldn't mind reading one that says, "Leave the ones underage on there." If you have any of it, I'd like to read it.

• 19:45Speaker 02

  So here we go. This is what I want to show you. So this is emails from the CEO. Okay, so this was uncovered in legal discovery. So let's go here. Okay, here's one. So these are, this is an email exchange between the VPs who are still there.

• 20:02Patrick Bet-David?

  Is this public record?

• 20:03Speaker 02

  This is public record.

• 20:04Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, fantastic. So we can show, so the crew will come afterwards and get the B-roll and show it to the audience as well.

• 20:08Speaker 02

  Yes, so here's this one example.

• 20:10Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 20:10Speaker 02

  So Serena, the girl that you showed in the New York Times piece. Let me talk about her. So Serena, she was 13 years old when she was sexually abused by, you know, being convinced by an older. This is Serena Fletch. Yes, she's from Bakersfield, California. So as an innocent young teen, she had a crush on a boy older than her. She was a straight A student. She had never kissed a boy before. And he convinced her to send him some nude images and videos of herself. And she wanted to impress him, so she did. Those videos were shared with classmates and soon they were uploaded to Pornhub, where they were getting millions and millions of views.

• 20:52Speaker 02

  She would beg for those videos to come down and either she would be ignored, or when they would respond, they would say, "Prove that you're underage. Prove that you're a victim in this video." And if she did get it down, it would just get re-uploaded because one of the things that they did was they placed a download button on every single video on Pornhub. So, and this is not a download button like on YouTube, where you kind of can watch it later, but you don't possess it. It's a download button where actually you can own on your device, 170 million visitors per day had an opportunity to download and possess her trauma and then re-upload it again and again and again and again. And this sent her on a spiral of despair.

• 21:37Speaker 02

  She ended up dropping out of school because of being bullied. She got addicted to drugs to try to numb the pain. She tried to kill herself multiple times. It's just amazing that she's even alive today. And then she wound up homeless, living out of a car. Okay? That's Serena. Thankfully today, she's actually suing the literal hell out of Pornhub. She's suing the owners by name. She's suing the company. She is suing Visa for monetizing her abuse on the site. And she's suing the hedge funds that funded this whole operation. We could talk about that later. But Serena, so this is Serena's abuse video. I came across her abuse in 2020 on Pornhub.

• 22:22Speaker 02

  It was clear it was abuse. This was one of several videos. The comments indicated that it was abuse. She clearly looked like she was 13, she couldn't be older than 13 or 14 in the video, it was obvious. At the time, I was in touch with Mastercard's VPs because I was trying hard to get them to demonetize Pornhub, because I knew that's the Achilles heel of Pornhub was credit card companies. I sent the VP her link to her video.

• 22:48Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies. 18 plus.

• 23:14Patrick Bet-David?

  To Visa?

• 23:15Speaker 02

  To Mastercard.

• 23:16Patrick Bet-David?

  To Mastercard, okay.

• 23:17Speaker 02

  They sent it to Pornhub and said, "What is this?" They actually said, "We received..." So, the VPs and the CEO were in an email exchange. "We received the below referral as suspected child porn located on Pornhub with the URL to the video." They clicked on that video, they saw that video, and you know what they did? They debated whether or not they should... What will make us look worse to Mastercard? If we take it down? Or if we leave it up? It wasn't automatically, "Let's take that down." And they left it up. They left the video up.

• 23:56Patrick Bet-David?

  For how long?

• 23:58Speaker 02

  In the litigation, so in Serena's lawsuit, it says that they left it up, that it didn't come down until the big purge in 2020. That her abuse videos didn't come down until the purge of 2020.

• 24:10Patrick Bet-David?

  How long is that?

• 24:11Speaker 02

  So, that would be... So, let's see, this happened in May.

• 24:15Patrick Bet-David?

  Of what year?

• 24:16Speaker 02

  Of 2020.

• 24:17Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so December 4th, so let's just say later, so it's seven months, six months.

• 24:21Speaker 02

  So, they're here saying, "Can we say it slipped through?"

• 24:27Speaker 02

  Can we...

• 24:27Patrick Bet-David?

  Who's saying that?

• 24:28Speaker 02

  So, they're saying, "Can we say it slipped through?" The CEO is saying, "Can we tell Mastercard that it just slipped through the cracks?" They want to know what we do.

• 24:36Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, they're communicating amongst each other as employees.

• 24:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're saying, "What should we do? We're in trouble with Mastercard." They even say, "Who's sending these videos?" The CEO says, "I know it's Lila who's doing this."

• 24:48Speaker 02

  The question from Mastercard is, "What did you do to verify her age?" And they're talking in these email exchanges, saying, "We don't do anything to verify age." Because this is the whole way that this started. Since 2007, Pornhub became the YouTube of porn, where anybody, anywhere in the world, could become a pornographer and upload sex videos to the site. And they were not verifying. So I tested this upload process in February 1st of 2020. After I heard the story in the news of that 15-year-old girl, she was from Broward County, Florida. She was missing for an entire year and she was finally found when her distraught

• 25:30Speaker 02

  mother was tipped off by a Pornhub user that he recognized her daughter on the site. She was found in 58 videos being raped and trafficked on Pornhub, okay? I was haunted by that story. I was haunted by another story at the same time where the Sunday Times did an investigation. They found dozens of illegal videos on the site within minutes, even children as young as three years old on Pornhub. And I was up late one night, and this is in the context of 15 years in the fight against trafficking. And I'm up late, you know, consoling my own newborn who was crying in the middle of the night, and I was thinking about these stories and I was haunted with a question. How in the world did that abuse end up on Pornhub? And I tested the upload system that night and I found out what millions of people already

• 26:13Speaker 02

  knew. And that was the crux of the problem. They did not verify. In under 10 minutes, anybody with an email address could anonymously upload content to the site. They were not checking ID to make sure these are not children. They were not checking consent to make sure these are not rape or trafficking victims. And because of that, the site became infested with videos of real sexual crime, including Serena's abuse, including so many victim stories I could tell you.

• 26:40Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so let me ask you this question. So for the longest time, there was a basketball team, the Clippers, I don't know if you're familiar with the Clippers, they had an owner called Donald Sterling. And Donald Sterling, there was clips of him being racist, comments he made, dropping the N-word, I think, I think. Rob, you know what I'm saying. You've seen the clips where he's saying words and he talked about them in a very disrespectful manner, many racist comments. And he was banned from the NBA for life and fined $2.5 million.

• 27:12Patrick Bet-David?

  So every time you thought about the Clippers, you thought about him. This is Donald Sterling. And nobody wanted to play for them. Black players who were there, they didn't want to play for them. And they had a pretty good team. They didn't want to play for him. NBA forces him to sell. He sells it, I think for like $2 billion and a guy named Steve Ballmer. Steve Ballmer is the number five employee from Microsoft, worth $150 billion today. He comes in, he buys the Clippers in 2014, 2015, Rob, I don't know what the year it is. He cleans house when he comes in. Now it's a great organization. Things are great, things are smooth. There's no issues and Clippers make a comeback and it's actually a fun team to watch. I don't know if they're not no longer right now, but they made a good run at what they did. Okay.

• 27:55Patrick Bet-David?

  So the new buyers buy it in March of 2023. Okay, give or take the dates. I have it somewhere around here. When they buy it, one of the things that I asked is.

• 28:08Patrick Bet-David?

  So now you're saying 91% of videos are taken out from 56 million to 5.2 million. It's a big number to filter all that stuff out. And I ask, I say, so how do you know when somebody is uploading a video? That the person is underage or not underage, right? And we look up, there's a software that I think they use called Yodi. And Yodi is a third party service to prove age without giving up the identity to the company. So I can go on there and say, hi, I'm Patrick, but David Boom, you know how you do your app or whatever? Yeah, Patrick, but David, you're 46 years old. You're fine. You can put up your video. Great, fantastic. No, you're 15 years old. You can't put up your video, cannot be uploaded. Great. All right. So that is headed in the right direction if this thing is going to stay on. That's the progress.

• 28:52Patrick Bet-David?

  Question I ask is how do you go back?

• 28:54Speaker 02

  But they didn't, they didn't start doing that. So say they bought in March of 2023. I have the emails where they're telling their users. It is only in September 3rd of 2024 when they started.

• 29:09Patrick Bet-David?

  Yodi?

• 29:10Speaker 02

  When they started requiring the age and consent verification of the individuals in the videos. Prior to that, after December, the big takedown in December, after the New York Times article.

• 29:22Patrick Bet-David?

  For 18 months, they're not requiring age of people in videos.

• 29:25Speaker 02

  In the videos. So they only required the age of the uploader.

• 29:29Patrick Bet-David?

  I got it. So that's September. So that's just two months ago.

• 29:33Speaker 02

  Yes, and even

• 29:35Patrick Bet-David?

  Is this documented that they just

• 29:36Speaker 02

  I have, I have the emails right here. Let me show you. I will show it to you right now.

• 29:39Patrick Bet-David?

  So Yodi, can you pull up, when did Pornhub start using Yodi?

• 29:42Speaker 02

  Look, new videos uploaded as of September 3rd, 2024 onward will, will only be published if IDs and proof of consent have been submitted and approved for all co-performers featured in the content. So prior to this-

• 29:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Who is approving that?

• 29:56Speaker 02

  Who?

• 29:56Patrick Bet-David?

  Who, who does that?

• 29:57Speaker 02

  Yoti does this service for them. Yes. But before that, let me just tell you, they were only requiring the ID of the uploader. So remember I told you, I tested the system in February, 2020.

• 30:09Patrick Bet-David?

  There's four people in the video. I'm the one that's uploading the video. You only check me, but the three other people that are on the video, you're not verifying them, but the video gets thrown and it's on there.

• 30:18Speaker 02

  Okay, now let me give you an example on why that doesn't work. There is a man named Rocky Shay Franklin in Alabama, who raped a 12-year-old boy. He drugged him, he overpowered him, and he raped him. And he took 23 of those assault videos, and he uploaded them to Pornhub. They were being, at the time, they were being sold as a pay-to-download content on the site. Rocky Shay Franklin's in prison for 40 years. You can look at, you can look it up, you can Google Rocky Shay Franklin, 40 years in prison, for what he did. He was a verified uploader, okay? We have the picture of Rocky, we have, we can, we know what his Pornhub username was. He's not the only one. Multiple victims who

• 31:03Speaker 02

  are suing Pornhub today had their abuse, whether it's adult rape or trafficking or child exploitation, uploaded by verified uploaders. So we know that that does not stop, and they knew that. Upon acquiring the company, they knew that just requiring the ID of the uploader does not solve this problem, yet they allowed those 5.2 million videos, right? So those were videos where the uploader would have been verified, but not the individuals in the videos themselves. They only started to require that in September. So Ethical Capital Partners went that many months-

• 31:46Speaker 02

  Profiting from, and I say profiting from because this is free porn, but it is highly monetized porn. Every video has ads around it. They sell, today they sell four billion ad impressions on Pornhub and its sister sites every single day.

• 32:01Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, if you look at the estimated revenue, 2022 was 468 million. 2023 was around half a billion. 2024, it could be between 450 to 550 million dollars, according to some of the numbers that we see. Okay, so they started using Yodi of everybody in the video a month before they came on the podcast. Cause they came on October 4th, you're saying September 3rd?

• 32:21Speaker 02

  September 3rd, 2024 is when they started doing this. And they even then sent a follow-up email to say, I know this is going to cause friction, right? It's going to be a more difficult process to upload. But what we're going to do is we're going to create a loophole for you. So let me show you another email.

• 32:36Patrick Bet-David?

  Is that an article, Rob, that shows what they're using? Is that the, announces biometric technology to verify users?

• 32:43Speaker 03

  Yes, this is February 3rd, 2021 from Vice, and in it, they mentioned Yodi, right down here.

• 32:49Speaker 02

  For uploaders, it's for uploaders.

• 32:51Patrick Bet-David?

  So for uploaders, they started in 2021? But for everybody in the video, they started at September 3rd of 2024?

• 32:58Speaker 02

  And they implemented a system. So what they did was to make it easier. They created essentially what's a loophole to the system. Where they created an auto-tag option, where anybody, so you can get one person verified, and they describe it here as an auto-tag function. So if you auto-tag somebody else, that they will automatically, they don't have to verify their age and consent. And that's, so I'm trying to explain how this works. So you have a performer that is actually verified. So they show their ID and they, you know, do their consent form. Then they can toggle on this feature that they describe in these emails to their users, where they can auto-accept incoming tags.

• 33:40Speaker 02

  So another person could have X, Y, and Z individuals in their videos. And in order for them to get around actually having to show the ID and consent of all those individuals, they can go to somebody who has the auto-accept, auto-tag on, and just tag them, okay? And what they said in this email, if, and if they abuse the feature, and try to tag you in a video that you're not in, our compliance team will catch it, and may not allow it, may not.

• 34:10Speaker 02

  Do you know what may not means? This is tricky, right? May not means we may allow it, right? So even now, it's clear that this system isn't really a robust and reliable system. And yet they're here, sitting here, Alex, with that cross around her neck, and she's been there

• 34:33Patrick Bet-David?

  13 years.

• 34:34Speaker 02

  For so many years. She was there when these children were being abused, where the rape and trafficking victims. And even today, I mean, even today, they have illegal content on the site. And you know how I know this? The proof is the fact that they had to file a report under the Digital Services Act. The Digital Services Act is a European law, and they really fought hard not to have to report under the Digital Services Act. They said, "Look, we're not a very large online platform," is their argument, because very large online platforms have to report.

• 35:07Speaker 02

  And they actually did, and they had to report how many videos that they took down that were illegal content. And from February 15 of 2024 to June 30 of 2024, they reported 3,770 images that they believed were child sexual abuse material that had to be taken down. And over 8,000, it was 8,679, I think, was the number of non-consensual and adult rape videos. So that's averaging about 1,000 children and 2,000 adults per month, because this was four and a half months, that they had to disclose. And that's not counting 300,000 videos that they just lumped in under general terms of service violations. General terms.

• 35:52Patrick Bet-David?

  Now, let me, so in your eyes, let me continue with this. Who right now, like, who do you go to to report this and they get involved and say, "Whoa, this is, you know, we gotta investigate this"? Who is being helpful? Who is not? People you're reporting to?

• 36:11Speaker 02

  Law enforcement's helpful.

• 36:13Patrick Bet-David?

  They are helpful?

• 36:13Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 36:14Patrick Bet-David?

  In what way?

• 36:15Speaker 02

  I mean, they will actually process a video. So there's certain Attorney General's offices across the United States that have, you know, become passionate about this issue and care about it. And so a video could be sent to them and they will then reach out to Pornhub and demand that it comes down. So that, that's helpful. One thing that's not helpful is that Ethical Capital Partners has set up a system where if a user sees a problematic video on Pornhub, they can't just flag the content and take it like actually just flag it. They have to log in.

• 36:47Patrick Bet-David?

  That's how you just tweeted that.

• 36:48Speaker 02

  They have to create a user account in order to report it. Now, I thought, I find that interesting because children don't have to create a user account to watch the videos on Pornhub.

• 36:58Patrick Bet-David?

  What?

• 36:59Speaker 02

  Anyone in the world. So a child, right? Anyone with a device.

• 37:04Patrick Bet-David?

  Go to Pornhub.com.

• 37:06Speaker 02

  All they have today, and they didn't even have this.

• 37:09Patrick Bet-David?

  You're gonna be fine. Cause I'm the one that's gonna write you up.

• 37:11Speaker 02

  So they, so they only have.

• 37:13Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh shoot, back up. Okay, I didn't, seriously? That's the homepage?

• 37:16Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 37:17Speaker 02

  Okay. They didn't even have an RU18 click-through button when all this started in 2020? That any fiver will be could navigate through.

• 37:25Patrick Bet-David?

  You see those guys on the back? So let me ask you, you're so funny, Humberto, I can hear you. So a child can go on without logging in?

• 37:35Speaker 02

  But you can't, but you can't flag a video. If you see a video on Pornhub that you think is illegal, you can't just flag that video without actually logging in. Yet, they allow anybody to watch their entire library of millions of videos without logging in. So, I mean, how ethical is that? Right?

• 37:56Patrick Bet-David?

  So, okay, so you go in. Anybody can go through any of the videos that are on there? But if I want to report something, I need to log in? I've already consumed the video. I've seen it. But if I want to report, I have to log in? Why do I have to log in to report?

• 38:14Speaker 02

  I think that it's a deterrent factor for reporting. I mean.

• 38:18Patrick Bet-David?

  Why?

• 38:19Speaker 02

  Because if they get, so let me tell you another thing. In the legal discovery that's happened, so there's now, let's see, nearly 300 victims who are suing Pornhub in 25 lawsuits, including multiple class actions on behalf of tens of thousands of child victims. Okay. And part of the legal discovery has uncovered the fact that they only had one person, one person. Now, the company had 1,800 employees by the end of 2020, and they employed one person to work five days a week reviewing videos flagged by users as containing terms of service violations, including what would

• 39:03Speaker 02

  be child rape, trafficking, all sorts of non-consensual content. Okay. They had a policy that a video had to be flagged 10, I'm sorry, 15 times before it was put in line for review. Are you following me? So, an abuse victim, a child-

• 39:20Patrick Bet-David?

  Before it was put in for review, one person that does five days a week, I'm following.

• 39:24Speaker 02

  Right. So, a victim could find their abuse on Pornhub, they would have to flag it over 15 times for it to even be put in line for review.

• 39:33Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, wow.

• 39:34Speaker 02

  And their entire backlog was 706,000 videos. Now-

• 39:39Patrick Bet-David?

  706,000 videos of 15, 15 times being flagged?

• 39:42Speaker 02

  Of a backlog of flagged videos, videos that were flagged.

• 39:45Patrick Bet-David?

  Not 15 times, just flagged once.

• 39:47Speaker 02

  Yes, just flagged, flagged videos. Now, here are the emails that are saying, so these are, this is the CEO again, they're in trouble with MasterCard-

• 39:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Which CEO is this? Is this the old CEO or the new CEO?

• 39:57Speaker 02

  For us in tune, but the CPO, who's currently the same CPO, the VPs that are currently the same VPs are discussing this policy. And they're talking about, like he says, "The below seems good and reasonable." Videos with 15 flagged is never viewed. And they say, "We have 706,425 videos that have been flagged that are in the backlog." Okay? So, this was the process. Now, tell me, now, based on that, is it any wonder that they make it difficult to flag videos? I don't know how many they have today. But that's, that's a system they have.

• 40:38Patrick Bet-David?

  CPO is a chief product officer?

• 40:40Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 40:41Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, who, who's the chief product officer? What's the name of the guy?

• 40:45Speaker 02

  Karim Elmarazi, Karim Elmarazi.

• 40:47Patrick Bet-David?

  Karim Almarazi?

• 40:50Speaker 02

  Yes, E L M A R A Z I.

• 40:53Patrick Bet-David?

  Like it's, no, just, he's giving you a suggestion right there, says, do you mean, yeah, right there? Is this the guy?

• 40:58Speaker 02

  There he is, right there.

• 40:59Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so can we read his background? I want to know his background. Karim Elmarazi is currently chief product officer at MindGeek. Before joining MindGeek, he served president of TV and managed services at Playboy Plus Entertainment. Okay, from August 2011 to July 16. Before their time at Playboy, Karim was the, with Bell from June of 02 to September of 2011, where they held the title of general manager of mobile solutions. In this role, Karim was responsible for business solutions and wireless professional management.

• 41:33Patrick Bet-David?

  So, all right, so he was at Playboy. From Playboy, he comes in here, chief product officer. And the email, he's saying, those that get flagged 15 plus times don't get that many views? The other 706,000 videos that got flagged do?

• 41:47Speaker 02

  No, he's the one that's part of this discussion where they have set up a policy. So this is why it's so problematic.

• 41:53Patrick Bet-David?

  The policy is the 15?

• 41:54Speaker 02

  The policy is the fact that they have one person out of a staff of 1,800. They're making hundreds of millions. So, you're a businessman, again. If you're a company that wants to make sure that there's not illegal content proliferating all over your site.

• 42:11Patrick Bet-David?

  Mm-hmm.

• 42:11Speaker 02

  Okay? You have 1,800 employees. Most of them are not doing the compliance work. In fact, we have evidence that they only had 30 moderators moderating the content.

• 42:24Patrick Bet-David?

  What was the number they told me when I asked him? Do you remember that, when I said, how many moderators do you have?

• 42:29Speaker 02

  They said, they said, they wouldn't tell you, they wouldn't tell you a number, but they said hundreds. They said hundreds.

• 42:34Patrick Bet-David?

  How many is actually doing it?

• 42:36Speaker 02

  Well, I know that as of 2020, okay, as of 2020, they only had 30. And not only was, so they had 30 working 10 per shift. And these people were actually tasked to watch at least 700 videos per shift. They were reprimanded if they had less than 700. Some of the more advanced moderators that were there for a long time and knew how to skip through things very quickly, were even watching up to 2,000 videos per eight-hour shift. And they were watching, they're just skipping through these, they just skipped through them. They just skipped through the videos.

• 43:09Patrick Bet-David?

  So you watch it on 2.0 speed?

• 43:11Speaker 02

  But this isn't even just Pornhub. This is for all the tube sites. So they own Pornhub, RedTube, YouPorn, GTube, XTube. Uh, you know, I mean, so many tube sites. And they had 10 people. Now compare this, Facebook has 15,000 moderators, okay? This is a company that owns most of the world's most popular porn sites. Okay, think of the massive amount. They hired 10 people per shift to do this job, okay? That is a policy that they put in place while they are not verifying age and consent, while they have one person reviewing flagged videos. So when I say that these executives and these VPs set up these policies, these weren't accidents, these were decisions.

• 43:55Patrick Bet-David?

  How many videos are uploaded per hour? They gave the number, do you remember the video rap?

• 43:59Speaker 02

  They said there were 2,000 per day now, okay? They used to have 25,000 a day.

• 44:04Patrick Bet-David?

  Now it's 2,000.

• 44:05Speaker 02

  In 2020.

• 44:06Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so if they got 2,000 per day, it works if you have hundreds, like they said.

• 44:12Speaker 02

  To review every video.

• 44:13Patrick Bet-David?

  To review every video. It doesn't work if it's only 30.

• 44:15Speaker 02

  The problem is, it doesn't matter if they have 10,000 moderators. If they're not verifying the age and consent of every individual and every video, it's a guessing game. And you hit on that during your interview. It's a game of Russian roulette with people's lives because there's no way that they can guess properly who's 16 and who's 18, right? Because not even a pediatrician can guess on a consistent basis who's 15 and who's 18. It just, you just cannot do it.

• 44:42Patrick Bet-David?

  Is this the part rap?

• 44:44Speaker 03

  This is where they explain how many moderators they have.

• 44:46Patrick Bet-David?

  Can I hear this? I'm curious.

• 44:50Speaker 04

  Every single video is reviewed by a human. We have age ID consent for uploaders, everybody appearing in content. There is absolutely no incentive to do otherwise on our platform. I always make that point. Like, from a business perspective, there's no incentive to do anything but the highest standards of trust and safety. So you have a company with 1,500 people, you're gonna have people who are saying nonsense.

• 45:12Patrick Bet-David?

  Technical product manager?

• 45:13Speaker 04

  So I have to say this. This is not someone, obviously, when I'm reviewing the company and I look very, very carefully at it, including spending time, none of these, there's not trust and safety staff, these are not moderators, these are not people in compliance, whatever idea they have, although it's very interesting, we learned something from these videos. We actually learned a very important lesson, which was, you can have a company of 1,500 people, and you'll have graphic designers, and you'll have salespeople and customer support, all of them need to be educated on our trust and safety system. So we actually, the company in response, and I think it was absolutely the right thing to do, now, whether you, doesn't matter if you're the janitor-

• 45:49Patrick Bet-David?

  Are you gonna tell us how many moderators?

• 45:50Speaker 02

  They're not, they're gonna say-

• 45:51Speaker 03

  He continues this word salad where he actually doesn't answer how many moderators-

• 45:55Speaker 02

  They won't tell, they won't say exactly how many they were.

• 45:58Speaker 03

  No, he just keeps stating that they have 1,500 employees.

• 46:01Speaker 02

  Okay, but here's, what he just said was, they review every single video. Now, let me say, they've been saying that since they started defending themselves in 2020. Let me tell you what that means. That is their admission of deep complicity. Because there was a 12-year-old boy, right, drugged, overpowered and raped in 23 videos, with titles that indicated that it was abuse. I won't say what they are on, because I don't want people to be disturbed, but the titles of the videos, maybe I will, I mean, Young Ass Is Best, Uncle Secret, Little Nephew, things like that, on these videos, they had, right, confirmed by the Sunday Times, children as young as three on this site.

• 46:45Patrick Bet-David?

  Be quiet.

• 46:46Speaker 02

  The Sunday Times did an investigation in late 2019. They found dozens of videos on the site that were illegal within minutes, even children as young as three. They have had, now I've seen these videos, and this is described in the New York Times piece by Nick Kristof, videos where victims are so unconscious and drugged, their bodies are completely limp, and a masked assailant is actually lifting the eyelids of the victims. You can see their red bloodshot eyes.

• 47:15Patrick Bet-David?

  What are you talking about?

• 47:16Speaker 02

  And actually touching the eyeballs of these victims.

• 47:20Patrick Bet-David?

  In Pornhub?

• 47:21Speaker 02

  On Pornhub. Drug needles, where you could see the needle with which they were drugged. And I don't want to, I don't want to disturb people by describing it in too much detail, but let's just say these, it is clear that this is not acting, okay? When you're actually tickling the feet and you're touching the eyeballs of a rape victim, um, and they're, what they're saying is that their moderators, what he just said was that, this is what they've been saying since 2020, their moderators viewed those videos. They approved, and there's, I'm not, this is confirmed. I, we have, I mean, you look at lawsuits, 179-page

• 48:01Speaker 02

  complaints detailing, uh, the evidence of a site infested with real obvious sexual crime. He's saying that those moderators viewed and then said, "Looks good, let's go ahead and put this live on the site." And not only that, let's go ahead and monetize it with ads, because every video, I mean, I describe in my book, one video of a clearly prepubescent child. Uh, it was, it's so obvious, and she is being anally raped by a perpetrator, and she is protesting in the video. And we reported it and it didn't come down. Weeks later, it was still up.

• 48:43Patrick Bet-David?

  Under new ownership or old ownership?

• 48:45Speaker 02

  That was, this was the old ownership, but old ownership is the same VPs and executives that are there today, right? Okay, we already know that. They already said that. It didn't come down. It got reported multiple times. It was only when we got the FBI involved, then they reported to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, that they finally were forced to take down this video. And even when they took down the video, because traffic is so important to them, because inventory is so important to them, they took down the video, but they left a black box there that said, "Removed at the request of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children." They left the tags, the title, the views, the comments, everything. Why?

• 49:28Speaker 02

  Because they want inventory, because they want it to be picked up on Google to drive more traffic to the site. And maybe they won't see that particular child's abuse, but then they'll just get directed to a whole bunch of other material.

• 49:39Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so that's when I said, aside from you, who is reacting to this? Obviously, is it?

• 49:47Speaker 02

  Oh, so many people.

• 49:47Patrick Bet-David?

  Is it, is it?

• 49:49Speaker 02

  This is a movement.

• 49:50Patrick Bet-David?

  I, I get it's a movement, but now, i-if you're in front of a court and you got lawyers, I got lawyers representing them, Pornhub, and I got lawyers representing you and the victims, right? The lawyers representing them are gonna say, "Your Honor, we bought this company in March of 2023. We know these were the issues. Here's what we've done. Ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba. We made the investment. We've gotten rid of this and we've gotten rid of that and back in the days this, 91% of it is gone. And we are following the guidelines and this because we want this thing to be extremely compliant and we want to follow the guidelines by every single state and da, da, da, da, da. And this is what we've done."

• 50:32Speaker 02

  That's not how the law works.

• 50:33Patrick Bet-David?

  But how does it work?

• 50:34Speaker 02

  Because you can't go commit a crime and just because time has passed, you don't get held responsible for it. Okay, so I, right? And that's not how justice works. That's why-

• 50:45Patrick Bet-David?

  Not if it's new ownership though, because if I buy a company that-

• 50:50Speaker 02

  Well, they're the ones who are being sued. So, so ILO, right? Ethical Capital Partners is not able to escape the litigation of, of what-

• 50:58Patrick Bet-David?

  I, I understand, but, but even with the law that comes after them, because your outcome is you want to shut down Pornhub. That's you. The 2.33 million signatures that you've collected, they're supporting you because they want to see Pornhub being shut down. Not being moderated, not, you know-

• 51:15Speaker 02

  I'm glad that, I'm glad when they're taking steps to limit the amount of illegal content that is on the site.

• 51:21Patrick Bet-David?

  Can they do anything where you will be in a position to say, guys, it's fine, it can stay on?

• 51:24Speaker 02

  Absolutely not, because victims will never forget. It, that's not what justice looks like. It doesn't look like you say sorry, you say, okay, we're going to clean some stuff up now because we got in trouble. It's not because they wanted to do this, right? If they never, if the petition never happened, if Nick Kristof didn't write his article, if Bill Ackman didn't get involved to help get the credit card companies to cut them off, if they didn't-

• 51:51Patrick Bet-David?

  Bill Ackman is the one that got the Visa massacre to cut them off?

• 51:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, so Bill Ackman, I love Bill. He's been such an important advocate in this fight. He read the Nick Kristof New York Times piece. You know, I think it was the day after it was out, sipping his morning coffee in his penthouse. And he was incensed because he has daughters himself. And I ended up getting in touch with him and explained everything that was going on. And he not only, you know, tweeted about it, he actually contacted Ajay Bhangia, who at the time was a CEO of Mastercard, because he knew him from the tennis circuit. And he shared the article and he said, look, you need to do the right thing here. And he said, I'm on it. And that's when they announced that they were going to be investigating

• 52:38Speaker 02

  the site, even though we had already been engaged with Mastercard now for almost a year at this point, but they were resisting, they were resisting. But then finally, they actually said, okay, we're investigating. Of course, they confirmed the illegal content all over the site because they knew about it from the start.

• 52:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, in one article, it says Visa and Mastercard stopped doing business with Pornhub in December of 2020. But this is 2022.

• 53:02Speaker 02

  But no, no.

• 53:03Patrick Bet-David?

  So they got back on.

• 53:04Speaker 02

  So here's what happened. So Bill Ackman intervenes. They confirmed the illegal content. Mastercard's the first one that says, okay, we're disengaging with Pornhub. Visa quickly follows suit. They're not going to be left behind. And this discovered as PayPal already had done this at the beginning.

• 53:20Patrick Bet-David?

  Whatever Visa does, Mastercard does, whatever Mastercard does, Visa does.

• 53:22Speaker 02

  Okay, so that was the worst thing that could have ever happened to Pornhub.

• 53:26Patrick Bet-David?

  And by, I think, Unilever and PayPal also stopped advertising and offering their services to them during that same time.

• 53:32Speaker 02

  Correct. They had done that actually at the beginning of December 2020. But they were losing all of their advertisers and whatnot. And

• 53:40Patrick Bet-David?

  So who is allowing them to accept payments today? Who do they still have?

• 53:43Speaker 02

  So they have cryptocurrency and they have bank wires as payment options. But I'll tell you the story of what happened. So they get cut off by the credit card companies. Now, this is the worst thing that could ever happen to them. I mean, Fabian Tillman told me earlier in 2020, if you want to go after Pornhub, go after the credit card companies because that's the only thing they care about.

• 54:04Patrick Bet-David?

  That's true.

• 54:05Speaker 02

  And when they announced that they were cutting ties, Pornhub did the unthinkable. And that is when they took down 80% of the entire website because it was all unverified content, because it was infested, because they didn't have ID and consent, because they didn't know who was in the videos. And there were so many illegal videos. That was the only thing that they could do to try to woo the credit card companies back. And

• 54:30Speaker 02

  There was headlines all over the world about this. So they lost the ability to process transactions for their premium. And they had cut off the advertising as well. But two weeks later, I found out an insider from the company came forward and said, I know you don't know this, this was months later. But two weeks after that New York Times piece, they actually went back to the advertising arm of the company. The advertising arm is called traffic junkie, and that's how they make most of their money. I mean, today, they sat here and told you, how do we make money on Pornhub? We make it through advertising. They were selling 4.6 billion ad impressions on Pornhub every day. Okay, that's how they're making their money. The credit card companies went back. So then it was round two with the credit card companies.

• 55:13Speaker 02

  Of course, one of the first people I called was Bill. I said, you're not going to believe this. They've gone back. He said, I'm going to help. He did. We engaged with the credit card companies again, but it wasn't until there was, they were resisting again and again. It wasn't until August of 2022, when Visa lost its motion to dismiss. So Serena sued Visa, she sued Pornhub and the owners and executives, and Visa lost their motion to dismiss the case. Judge Karmak Carney in California gave a scathing decision. He said, according to the facts in this case, Visa gave Pornhub the very tool through

• 55:55Speaker 02

  which to complete the crime of knowingly benefiting from child trafficking. And denied them. Made headlines around the world. Bill, Bill got him and I on Squawk Box with Andrew Sorkin. 17 minutes, we're calling out Al Kelly. The attorney for Serena got on Squawk Box the day before, calling, the pressure was on, the headlines were piling up. And then Al Kelly came forward with a personal statement. He said, I usually don't do this. But I'm a father and we're gonna cut off Pornhub once and for all. And then, of course, Mastercard followed, Discover. And that's how they finally got cut off by the credit card companies.

• 56:32Patrick Bet-David?

  So if it's crypto only and wiring money, you can't make a half a billion dollars a year like that.

• 56:39Speaker 02

  Well, it's because they have the other pay sites, right? So they own-

• 56:42Patrick Bet-David?

  What are the other pay sites?

• 56:43Speaker 02

  They have the subscription sites. They have the Brazzers and the Reality Kings and they manage Playboy and they, you know, have mofo's and so many others.

• 56:52Patrick Bet-David?

  What percentage of the revenue comes from Pornhub?

• 56:55Speaker 02

  I don't know today how much of their total revenue as a company is coming from Pornhub versus their other sites.

• 57:01Patrick Bet-David?

  There's no way it's a lot if it's only wiring money.

• 57:04Speaker 02

  I mean, it definitely tanked. It definitely tanked. I mean Pornhub used to be the cash cow. Now, I think what it's used as is more an advertising arm for them. So they advertise their other pay sites on Pornhub, right? When you go there.

• 57:17Patrick Bet-David?

  So let's go back to this. So let's go back to, you know, you want them to shut down. Okay. Let's say they do. Pornhub is shut down. All right.

• 57:28Speaker 02

  Yeah. Now what, right?

• 57:29Patrick Bet-David?

  You think there's not access to what are the other porn sites that are available? Or even the dark web? Or you don't think any of that exists and it's accessible to people? Like, you accomplish? What did you accomplish? What's the accomplishment?

• 57:44Speaker 02

  So part of this is not just to hold Pornhub accountable. But we want to prevent this in the future. And what that means is that we're pressuring not only governments, but the credit card companies. So the financial institutions, I think, are the key to this. And you might understand this as a businessman yourself. We want to see Visa, Mastercard and Discover say, "We don't do business with user-generated porn sites that don't reliably verify the age and consent of every single person in every single video." Just like they have anti-money laundering policy, they need to have anti-online exploitation policy. And when they do that, they're the doer at scale. So they are the solution at scale. Because these companies, they may be free porn, but they're not free.

• 58:29Speaker 02

  They exist to make a lot of money and it's really hard for them to do that without the credit card companies and financial institutions. So I think that is the ultimate solution in addition to governments enacting the same policy.

• 58:43Patrick Bet-David?

  So this, even if you shut down Pornhub?

• 58:47Patrick Bet-David?

  It's not going away because the porn laws in America are not gonna look. By the way, it's so interesting because in this election porn was one of the issues in the election. I don't know if you saw the video or not. Did you see the ad the Democrats ran?

• 59:00Speaker 02

  Oh, I think I did. Where it's scaring people that they're gonna take away the porn.

• 59:04Patrick Bet-David?

  Watch this here. One of the ads they ran, Rob, I think we texted it to you. If you, you know.

• 59:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, I saw it.

• 59:11Patrick Bet-David?

  Brandon, did you send it to Rob? Rob should have it if you have one of the clips. I think this is the one. Yeah, watch this. This is a commercial. If folks are watching this, this is not a spoof. This is a real commercial ran with budget of Kamala Harris to scare people who watch porn to not vote for a Republican. This is maybe one of the weirdest commercials ads I've ever seen in my life. The only thing that was missing is Kamala Harris coming at the end to saying, "Hi, I'm Kamala Harris and I endorse this message." Go ahead and play this clip.

• 59:41Speaker 05

  Sorry, you can't do that. What the hell, man? How'd you get in here? I'm your Republican congressman. Now that we're in charge, we're banning porn nationwide. You can't tell me what to do. Get out of my bedroom, you creep. I won the last election, so it's my decision. I'm just gonna watch and make sure you don't finish illegally.

• 1:00:02Speaker 02

  I mean, it's ridiculous because, I mean, porn, like it or not, it's legal. It's constitutionally protected as expression. Okay? It's not going away. That's not my goal. That's not the goal of Trafficking Hub. That's not the goal of my organization, the Justice Defense Fund. We're after making sure that these sites are not infested and globally distributing and monetize sexual crime, monetizing sexual crime. That is what we're after. And the problem with Pornhub is that it is doing that. And so when we're shutting down Pornhub, it's not shutting down all porn. If you want to have porn, you do

• 1:00:39Speaker 02

  so legally. You do so by verifying age and you verify consent. And that's possible. That's possible, but you have to reinvent the business model of free user-generated porn. And that's okay. That's okay if they have to do that.

• 1:00:58Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah. I mean, again, so what are the laws right now with porn? What are the laws right now with porn when it comes down to underage porn?

• 1:01:09Speaker 02

  It's illegal. I mean, it's illegal to possess it. It's illegal to distribute it, to advertise it, to monetize it.

• 1:01:15Patrick Bet-David?

  Then why are there so many sites that have it?

• 1:01:17Speaker 02

  They're breaking the law.

• 1:01:19Patrick Bet-David?

  And why are they not being held accountable?

• 1:01:21Speaker 02

  There's not enforcement of the law.

• 1:01:22Patrick Bet-David?

  I don't get that, though. I don't understand. I'm very confused with that part. So who? Who wouldn't enforce that law? It's kids. You know, we had a guest on here a couple of days ago where the interview went out and it was a great conversation. I wish she would mention more people that are alive instead of just mentioning people that are no longer here with us. One of the conversations was around the fact that, according to the FBI, 2022 data, 359,000 children are missing.

• 1:01:54Patrick Bet-David?

  I mean, I had a dog missing for nine days, Jimbo, and we were devastated as a family. Parents missing a child? Are you kidding me? The pain? What policy is above that? I don't know what policy is above that.

• 1:02:09Speaker 02

  It's not a matter of the policy, it's a matter of the enforcement. And I think the problem is there's so much of this going on, and there's not enough political will and there's not enough resources being dedicated to do it. And that's why I think there's power in civil litigation. Because civil litigation puts the power into the hands of the victims. They decide whether or not they're going to pursue justice in court. And they're not waiting and relying upon the government. And what often can happen is when you have a powerful legal complaint and the lawyers do all their work and discovery and they unearth all of the facts and the evidence, then the criminal prosecution can come on the heels of that. And basically, they use everything they found in the civil litigation to pursue the criminal. It makes their job easier. And we've seen that over and over again.

• 1:02:51Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah. Do you remember the part when I asked them a question? I said, "So is your goal as in Pornhub to help people go out of the porn industry?" "Oh, no. A lot of people are very happy with their jobs." And I said, "What are you talking about? How the hell does somebody become a porn star at 18 years old? They consumed underage to be inspired to do that, right? And you go through these data and you talk to other people and say, "So..." What is the profile of somebody that becomes a baseball player? Well, da-da-da-da-da. What is the profile of somebody that becomes a lawyer? What is the profile of somebody that becomes a dentist? What is the profile of somebody that becomes a realtor? An actor? An athlete? What is the profile of somebody that becomes a porn star? What is that profile?

• 1:03:36Patrick Bet-David?

  What percentage of that is broken homes? Where kids are forced to find a way? And, and you, you go look up some of the statistics on, you know, percentages on what kids are going through, on how they get introduced to this business. As you're going through this search and the 2.33 million people that are messaging you, how many people have reached out to you that are former porn stars or former abusers that are saying, hey, my clips are still out there? How many of those people are reaching out to you?

• 1:04:03Speaker 02

  A lot, a lot. I mean, some of my most helpful allies in this fight have been those in the porn industry. Or formerly in the porn industry, but in the porn industry. I mean, talk about illegal content, it's not just child rape and trafficking, it's copyright violations, pirated content on these free sites. So, you know, I, at one point I had several porn performers who were telling me they spent hours a day scouring Pornhub and its sister tube sites, trying to find their own illegal content to try to take it down. In the course of doing that, they were coming across a whole bunch of child abuse and trafficking and they were sending the links over. Um, but you know, some of the greatest allies have actually been in the industry. And yeah, there's a lot of pain that goes on with a lot of people.

• 1:04:47Speaker 02

  I mean, one, a book I recently just read is by a porn producer named Vic Legina. And he has a book called Filthy.

• 1:04:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Did you say Vic Legina?

• 1:04:56Speaker 02

  Vic Legina.

• 1:04:57Patrick Bet-David?

  You're not joking?

• 1:04:58Speaker 02

  I'm not joking.

• 1:04:59Patrick Bet-David?

  Trump would love that name, the way he says China. It almost sounds like.

• 1:05:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:05:04Patrick Bet-David?

  So this is not a joke, this is not a story.

• 1:05:06Speaker 02

  No, he actually was a producer and director for many, many years. And he wrote a book about his experience and, you know, one of the things that's really clear is that there is definitely a lot of trauma and there's a lot of, um, you know, history of prior abuse and all of those things, uh, that are in the professional studio-produced porn industry.

• 1:05:28Speaker 02

  Even some of the porn performers who actually were in the studio produce content are suing Pornhub. There's a porn star named Phoenix Marie that's currently suing for tens of millions of dollars. She's suing ILO and the parent company Pornhub for her own exploitation. So it's not a secret that that happens. But the work that we're doing is to help those who are not in that professionally studio produce content, although they're welcome to come forward for help if they've been abused too. But I think to your point of, you know, children who are witnessing this, it's not just that they might aspire to the porn industry someday.

• 1:06:13Speaker 02

  I think probably more concerning than that is the fact that eight-year-olds, as their sex education, as their introduction to sex, could actually witness a real sexual crime on Pornhub as their introduction to sexuality. They could witness a real rape. They could witness abuse. There's a study done by the British Journal of Criminology, and they looked at over 100,000 of the videos that are on the homepages of these free tube sites, and they found that 1 in 8, 1 in 8 of every of those videos, shows violence and non-consent.

• 1:06:52Speaker 02

  So that is what children are viewing when Pornhub allows free access to these sites by anybody with no restriction, with no safeguarding. So I say that children are abused in front of the screen, and children are abused behind the screen, and I think both need to be protected.

• 1:07:13Speaker 00

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• 1:07:40Patrick Bet-David?

  What do you see as the pattern of people who get into the porn industry? Do you see, Rob, can you, can you actually ask this question? Let's do this, let's ask ChatGPT and let's see what it says. If you go on ChatGPT and ask the question, what causes someone to get into the porn industry?

• 1:08:01Patrick Bet-David?

  I'm actually curious to know what the answer is gonna be. And so, financial motivation, okay, I see that everywhere. Personal choice and agency, sexual freedom and empowerment, right? Influence of environment, makes sense. Psychological emotional factors, self-esteem of being validated, trauma, vulnerability, in certain cases, individuals have history of abuse, trauma might be susceptible to entertaining industry, coping exploitation, rebellion and escapism, escapism, okay? Recruitment and opportunity. Socioeconomic and educational barriers, makes sense. Online accessibility. All right, so question, what, what is your view on the difference between OnlyFans and Pornhub? Do you have any problem with OnlyFans?

• 1:08:43Speaker 02

  Well, I have, well, I have victims who have been exploited, that have come forward, who have also been exploited on OnlyFans in the past.

• 1:08:51Patrick Bet-David?

  How do you get exploited on OnlyFans?

• 1:08:53Speaker 02

  Now, they have, they have really watching, so one of the beautiful things that's happened in holding Pornhub so publicly accountable with all of the serious repercussions that has happened to them, is other websites, it's a domino effect, right? Other websites and other companies are watching what happened to them and saying, we don't want to end up in that position, so let us proactively try to clean up what we're doing and improve our. I see, but with OnlyFans, I think the biggest, one of the biggest things is that it's subscription based. So that it's not just free access to go on the site. So I think that definitely prevents children from being able to access that content freely like they can on the free porn tube sites. I think the free porn tube sites are the most dangerous out there,

• 1:09:38Speaker 02

  not only from the user perspective of who's viewing it, but also from who are in the videos. And I would, I want to address something that Solomon and his partner said on this show. When you started to talk about protecting children from access to the site and they raised this big objection, right? Oh, this is about privacy, this is about privacy. And I just want to point out how ridiculous that is coming from them. Because for one, they exploit and they harvest the data of every single user that visits their site. They're currently being sued in a class action for the exploitation of user data. So they already do that.

• 1:10:20Speaker 02

  But you pointed out that because they own pay sites as well, these subscription sites, they already age verify on those sites, right? Because you have to have a credit card to access the site. So they have no problem getting the personally identifying information, the name, the credit card, the address of people for their paid sites. But they suddenly have a problem with age verification with their free sites. Because their free sites depend on frictionless traffic to the sites to sell ad impressions. So I just want to point out the flawed logic that they're using in that case

• 1:11:01Speaker 02

  and point out the fact that it's a lie, that this is really about privacy when it's really about money for them. And in fact, I have emails from their senior community manager discussing this very fact. And what she says, not emails, sorry, posts, online. She says exactly what you said. "MindGeek loses money. Age verification devastates traffic. Pornhub stands to lose 50% of traffic. It costs us money to verify and overall it's a disaster." That's exactly what it's about when it comes to the resistance to age verification.

• 1:11:40Patrick Bet-David?

  I don't think it's 50%, I think they'd lose 90%. I think if right up front, if the website verified, 90% is gone. 90% would be gone in no time if that was the case.

• 1:11:51Speaker 02

  So I think whether it's 50% or 90%, I think the important thing is the truth. Again, is to get to the truth. What is the truth? Why are they resisting age verification? And it comes down to money.

• 1:12:04Patrick Bet-David?

  For sure.

• 1:12:05Speaker 02

  It's expensive.

• 1:12:06Patrick Bet-David?

  It's going to be the traffic that goes to it. So if you have to do that, the cost and the traffic. And you have to be able to show, like when you do a sponsorship with somebody, when we used to entertain a few sponsorships two years ago. It was, so how many views you get? We get this. Okay, we pay this per this. Okay, cool. No. All right, we'll pay this. All right, sounds good. Boom. Here's how much you want. I'm gonna find a hundred thousand dollars. Great. But if you don't have viewership, you know, advertisers are not gonna pay you big dollars. You have to get the eyeballs. They don't wanna not give up the eyeballs.

• 1:12:38Speaker 02

  They don't wanna lose traffic.

• 1:12:39Patrick Bet-David?

  No, they don't wanna lose traffic.

• 1:12:40Speaker 02

  Because that's the business model of free user-generated porn. So I think it's really, really important, especially because, you know, this is gonna be making headlines soon with regard to age verification for users, because the Supreme Court on January 15th is hearing their opposition to age verification in Texas. So Texas-

• 1:12:57Patrick Bet-David?

  Pornhub's.

• 1:12:57Speaker 02

  Yes. It's Pornhub and they're a partner of the Free Speech Coalition. So they call themselves the Free Speech Coalition. And so Texas actually enacted age verification requirements for users. They went ahead and sued the state of Texas. Now it's going to the Supreme Court. And, you know, it's under this pretense of, oh, we care about privacy. You know, we don't want people to have to show their ID to access a porn site. Well, they don't have to show their ID to Pornhub. I would never want anybody to have to show their ID to Pornhub. They have third-party sites, right? Yoti.

• 1:13:31Speaker 02

  These are reliable, these are privacy-respecting corporations that are third-party that exist to be able to easily and safely verify age and ID. And so it's, I just wanna call out the BS from them. I wanna call out the excuses and just get right down to the truth. Just say it like it is. Say it that you just don't wanna lose profit, because you wanna put profit over the safety of children every single time.

• 1:14:00Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, I mean, when I'm looking at this website, Rob, the Free Speech Coalition, nonprofit. What a great name, though. Free Speech Coalition. Honestly, it's a great name. FSC. Uh, the adult entertainment industry in the US, founded in 1990, opposes the passage of and enforcement of obscenity laws and many censorship laws. That lady to the right, Nina Hartley, if you wanna go to her. Nina Hartley is from the industry herself, right? She, by 2017, she had expressed, she's an American porn star and sex educator. By 2017, she had appeared in more than 1,000 adult films. She had been described by Las Vegas Weekly as an outspoken feminist, an advocate for sexual freedom, and by CNBC as a legend in the adult world.

• 1:14:44Speaker 02

  She's not leading it anymore.

• 1:14:45Patrick Bet-David?

  She's not. What is she doing now?

• 1:14:47Speaker 02

  I don't, I don't know what she's doing now, but I know that she's not.

• 1:14:50Patrick Bet-David?

  She stepped away from it?

• 1:14:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't think she's the leader of, of this. But this is an industry, so it's a porn industry interest group. Basically, they exist to lobby for the interest, not of porn performers, not of those who are actually in those videos, but for the industry. And they fight laws every single time. They fought really hard, and I think they won. There was a law in the United States that actually made it illegal to depict a child. So where it wouldn't be real, right? It would be a depiction of a child. It could maybe be a realistic depiction. But they fought it being illegal to depict a child in a video. And that's when the explosion of teen porn

• 1:15:32Speaker 02

  came to be, where, so teen is one of the most popular categories on Pornhub for so many years in a row. And when you say teen, right? Teen, they have 18-year-olds that look like children. They have pigtails, braces, flat chests. They talk like children. They act like children. And it's an entire genre of porn that exploded because it's not illegal to do so. In Canada, it's actually illegal to depict a child in a pornographic video, even if it's not a child.

• 1:16:03Patrick Bet-David?

  What is that, Rob?

• 1:16:05Speaker 03

  That's one, what she's describing, somebody that's above age, or maybe above age, but they're portrayed as a younger person.

• 1:16:11Patrick Bet-David?

  Is that Dylan Mulvaney, or is that actually?

• 1:16:15Patrick Bet-David?

  No, I'm actually asking, so that's not Dylan Mulvaney?

• 1:16:17Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:16:18Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, I'm sorry. I thought it, it just, it looks like him, so.

• 1:16:22Speaker 02

  And so that, so this was the problem on Pornhub is, you know.

• 1:16:27Speaker 02

  Real children were being raped alongside depictions.

• 1:16:31Patrick Bet-David?

  But by the way, what is the, what is the position legally against AI porn that they can do? What, what's, what is legal or illegal with that? Is there laws against it? Like if CGI and they can, the, the direction chat GPT is going, the technology that they're going to be creating? What if they use AI to create porn? Is there any laws against it?

• 1:16:52Speaker 02

  Uh, I think that they're trying to catch up with, you know, the advancement of AI and being able to create abuse imagery. Because, uh, you know, what they can even do today, and I say, keep your kids faces off social media if you can. Because what AI can do today is actually take the face of a child from a picture and then create child sexual abuse material from just an innocent picture of your kid, you know, playing at the playground. They can take that and then they can, you know, make very realistic looking child sexual abuse imagery. And that needs to be completely outlawed and we need to have, uh, you know, strong laws against that. Um, we call it deep fakes as well. Um, but in the United States, there's been a law that's been enacted since 1988

• 1:17:34Speaker 02

  for the porn industry, uh, for the brick and mortar, you know, porn industry, porn valley. You know about porn valley, right? You, you know, right, you're in your Chatsworth, is that right?

• 1:17:44Patrick Bet-David?

  I was with all those guys, yeah.

• 1:17:45Speaker 02

  And it's called USC 2257 and it requires age verification and record keeping. And it's actually a felony if you don't keep those records and be able to produce them to, to the DOJ. Anytime they want it, they can request it because it's understood, anybody with a brain knows that if you don't have that, the, the industry is going to be awash with criminal content. The problem is that with the advent of the internet and the YouTube's of porn, that these companies have basically ignored the law. And Pornhub would be held to the standard of this law because the law says if you transfer pornographic content in the United States, if you produce or transfer pornographic content in the US,

• 1:18:28Speaker 02

  you have to be held to USC 2257, record keeping, uh, law. And they have been transferring, right? They had a download button on every single video, but they were transferring that content. So they have violated that law millions and millions of times without now, without repercussion. And we need to see that change.

• 1:18:47Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, I'm curious to know what happens and then what happens afterwards, like what is? Once something happens with them, let's just say if it does, then what?

• 1:18:57Speaker 02

  If, so if Pornhub is held fully accountable, right? We've made a lot of progress in holding them accountable. There's still lawsuits that need to be resolved. Restitution needs to be paid to victims. What we're gonna see is a transformation of the entire industry, of the entire online porn industry, to become a safer place for children, for victims, for generations to come. If this, if we're successful,

• 1:19:24Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:25Speaker 02

  The internet will become a safer place because there will be regulation on user-generated porn.

• 1:19:31Patrick Bet-David?

  So, how did they attack you? Did they, did they at all attack you? I think one article I saw is they attacked you for you being a Christian or something like that? What was that article about?

• 1:19:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, that was the, kind of, the play that they made from the beginning. Instead of actually acknowledging that there was a problem and taking the necessary steps to fix it, what they did was, they tried to deflect, they tried to deny that it was a problem, and then they tried to discredit those who were raising the problem. Like me, like victims, like so many other... I mean, at one point, we had 600 organizations that were involved in this fight. But what they did was, they tried to say, "Look, this is just a religious, right-wing, moral crusade against people who hate sex and want sex removed from the internet completely. Don't listen to anything they say." And that was their, that was their play.

• 1:20:21Patrick Bet-David?

  And said Exodus created shady evangelical group of Trump ties waging war on Pornhub? Is this it?

• 1:20:27Speaker 02

  I mean, it's one of many articles that were written like that.

• 1:20:30Patrick Bet-David?

  So who is the, who wrote this, by the way? What site is this?

• 1:20:33Speaker 03

  Daily Beast.

• 1:20:33Speaker 02

  This is the Daily Beast. I mean, the Daily Beast is essentially, you know, unfortunately, in my opinion, with the stuff that they've produced that is actually blatant lies about the movement, you know, a glorified tabloid.

• 1:20:46Patrick Bet-David?

  But they don't have the same credibility. I mean, I don't know if they've had it. They just don't. That's, oh, that's four years ago. Uh, the picketing and launching hotline, anti-trafficking campaigns against Pornhub, some of those strange.

• 1:20:58Speaker 02

  And that's what Solomon said, right here, right? So Solomon was here, and you know what he said? He said that Trafficking Hub was started by a group called Morality and Media that's been picketing against sex shops since, he said, the eighties and nineties. I was born in 1982. I founded Trafficking Hub, okay? I started Trafficking Hub. I mean, you could play exactly what he said. It is just a blatant lie. Because that's, they say, oh, they're conflating trafficking and sex work. The only one conflating trafficking and sex work and porn is Pornhub by hosting real sexual abuse and crime against actual legal videos.

• 1:21:41Speaker 02

  I mean, you could play what he actually said. It's a, it's a complete lie. We've had people from left and right, atheists have joined this fight alongside Muslims and Christians. Um, you know, we've had people who are pro porn and anti porn, left-wing outlets with right-wing outlets, because simply, we can all agree that nobody should be raped and trafficked for profit on the world's largest porn site.

• 1:22:06Patrick Bet-David?

  Uh, Rob, is this when he says that, or is this when I ask, are you a man of faith?

• 1:22:09Speaker 04

  This is when you ask.

• 1:22:10Patrick Bet-David?

  Are you a man of faith?

• 1:22:11Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:22:11Patrick Bet-David?

  Go ahead and play the clip.

• 1:22:14Patrick Bet-David?

  Go back a little bit.

• 1:22:15Speaker 04

  I am a man of faith. Then you have a safer internet.

• 1:22:17Speaker 02

  I think that's the wrong one.

• 1:22:18Patrick Bet-David?

  Are you a man of faith?

• 1:22:18Speaker 02

  Oh, okay, yeah.

• 1:22:20Speaker 04

  I am a man of faith.

• 1:22:21Patrick Bet-David?

  You would say you are?

• 1:22:22Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:22:23Patrick Bet-David?

  Are you ever conflicted?

• 1:22:25Speaker 04

  I, I think that the work we are doing in an industry, whether you like it or not, right? And we happen to, we like the people we work with. We like, we like the industry, okay? It will exist. So to be part of the movement that's gonna make it safer, not by getting 2.5 million, shut it down, have a petition, be nasty, but by actually doing the work, investing in making it safer, I think it's an extraordinarily positive thing to do.

• 1:22:49Speaker 06

  And de-stigmatization as well, because one of the realities is that this is a very stigmatized industry, right? And we know full fa- full fact that when there is increased stigma, right? There's more, there's increased violence. So whenever we have...

• 1:23:05Patrick Bet-David?

  I'm listening. I'm just breathing hard.

• 1:23:06Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 1:23:07Speaker 02

  I mean, you were just...

• 1:23:08Patrick Bet-David?

  I got a big nose. When I breathe, the whole city...

• 1:23:09Speaker 02

  He's giving credit for that.

• 1:23:12Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:13Speaker 02

  I mean, so I want to tell you something about Solomon. I think this is important to the context of this conversation. And I reported this in Newsweek and you can pull it up if you want. I wrote an article in July. It's called Pornhub is Still A Crime Scene Even After It's Rebrand. You can pull that up. Solomon, you know, actually is a criminal defense attorney that has a history of representing pedo criminals in court. Okay. So he's represented all kinds of criminals, but he has had a specialty in those who are pedophiles. And he actually publicly congratulated the sinking of a massive child pornography case

• 1:23:55Speaker 02

  in Canada that involved over 7,300 videos of child sexual abuse, including over 2,000 videos of infants being raped by grown men. Okay. This is documented case that happened in Canada.

• 1:24:14Patrick Bet-David?

  Wait, wait, wait.

• 1:24:15Speaker 02

  And go to the Newsweek article. Go ahead, right there.

• 1:24:18Patrick Bet-David?

  Is that it, Rob?

• 1:24:19Speaker 02

  Yes, you can click on those links and you could see that he actually congratulated the sinking of this case. He said it on Twitter. He's since locked his Twitter account down.

• 1:24:29Patrick Bet-David?

  And he was a criminal, empty congratulates Weinstein defend illegal computer search by Ottawa police sinks child porn case Ottawa citizen.

• 1:24:42Speaker 02

  Now, if you go back and you can link to the archive of the article he shared, he did it twice where he congratulated the sinking of this case. If you click on 7,730 images, okay. Go ahead. I think you could click on that. Can you click on that?

• 1:24:56Speaker 03

  It's loading right now.

• 1:24:57Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 1:24:57Speaker 03

  It might take a second.

• 1:24:58Speaker 02

  There you go. So there's the case. And in the case, you can see the details of the amount of child porn that was on this man's device. And he's congratulating the sinking of that case. Okay. So that's who, you know, we're talking about as the face of ethical capital partners. And it's no wonder that they wouldn't be honest about what they're currently doing, what's happened in the past and...

• 1:25:26Speaker 02

  I just think that it's really important to expose the truth about this company, who they are, and what's actually currently going on.

• 1:25:35Patrick Bet-David?

  So what's this here? This is illegal computer search by autopolic thinks child porn case judge commits acquits man found with 7,730 explicit images on flash drives. This is the man that got, he was representing him?

• 1:25:47Speaker 02

  No, it was a colleague and a criminal defense attorney. And so he was just saying, congratulations, good job. You sunk a child, a massive child porn case on a technicality. And so I think the, so the point that I want to make here is that

• 1:26:04Speaker 02

  character matters, right? And if you could lie about something as easily

• 1:26:12Speaker 02

  like a proven lie that says that trafficking hub was started by a group that used to protest sex shops in the seventies or sorry eighties and nineties. This is a easily, I mean, they have investigated trafficking hub deeply. They know exactly who started it, what it's about, who's involved. And if you would lie about something so simple as that, then how could you trust anything that they're saying? So, I mean, I think that's.

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• 1:27:09Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, I mean, look, the story came out, Rob, I don't know if you have it or not. The story about this guy who was allowing people election betting site, is this the one?

• 1:27:19Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:27:19Patrick Bet-David?

  FBI raids apartment of an election betting site, polymarket CEO and sees a cellphone. Sources say the FBI raided Shane Copeland's home after the website elections betting market controversially predicted Donald Trump's win. And the FBI went after this guy. Just a website that, you know, can you go a little lower up? Uh, if you ask these a cell phone, electronic device, a betting site, a polymarket CEO in a raid in his New York City apartment Wednesday. The company's market wagered correctly and controversially in Donald Trump's favor in bets who would win the presidential election. Even though opinion polls showed a tight race, this is ridiculous. You lost seven states, battleground states. New phone, who's this? The point of the story is this.

• 1:28:02Patrick Bet-David?

  If they're willing to investigate a person like this. Who accurately got it right on how betters were betting. They can investigate other people if they choose to, but it's not a priority.

• 1:28:13Speaker 02

  I'm excited about the new AG, I think Bondi is her name that she, yeah, she has a history of really going hard on child exploitation trafficking. And that is really encouraging to know because the fight's not over. I mean. Pornhub was criminally charged by the US federal government for intentionally profiting. From the sex trafficking of over 100 victims in a notorious. Crime ring, a trafficking ring called Girls Do Porn. Now, the guy that was running the ring was on the FBI's most wanted list. And he was a partner with Pornhub for years. I mean, he had 800,000 subscribers. They had 600 million views on Pornhub.

• 1:28:54Speaker 02

  And so the federal government did investigate this. They criminally charged them. And this was in December of 2023. So you could look up DOJ. Um Pornhub charges and you could see that if you want to. Unfortunately, this was only about the. Specific victims that were represented by this particular crime ring. And there's so many more victims who are awaiting justice to be fully served. And so I hope that what we'll see, the wheels of justice turn slowly, but they do turn. And I think that we're not done with this fight for justice yet, and I think they will turn.

• 1:29:37Speaker 02

  And I think we will see full criminal prosecution of the owners of Pornhub, and I hope that we do. Because when that happens, there's going to be a huge. Deterrent to other abusers. And I think that's a key point here is that deterrence is so important. And we've seen it in other industries. When there's accountability, think about the hedge fund insider trading, right? When we saw criminal prosecution, when we saw huge fines, um, we've seen it diminish, right?

• 1:30:06Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah. Um, look, to me, I ran an insurance company for 15 years. We sold, I've been in insurance for since day before nine 11. And I've been that space and we would, I'm around a lot of sales guys. We're in 50 states. We license 60,000 insurance agents, a lot of young men. We were half 54% women, 46% men. A lot of husbands and wives got married. And one of the common challenges while you're sitting there mentoring a young guy, or you're in a sales office walking around, can't tell you how many times I walked in on people watching porn. Okay. And look, it's the direction we're going. It's going to be there. AI is going to take you to a different level. Virtual reality is

• 1:30:49Patrick Bet-David?

  going to take you to a different level. Relationships with AI where, you know, people look at the number of birth rates going lower, where we're having fewer kids because we have more TV time, more ways of not having the people are on their phones more than they're talking to their girl or their wife or their husband. They're just like stuck like this. Normally, if that wasn't there, they'd be spending time together. So this eliminating porn is going to be very difficult to do. My biggest challenge with this space is going to be underage.

• 1:31:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course.

• 1:31:17Patrick Bet-David?

  I have zero, I have zero.

• 1:31:19Speaker 02

  Zero tolerance.

• 1:31:20Patrick Bet-David?

  I don't have any tolerance for it.

• 1:31:21Speaker 02

  Good.

• 1:31:21Patrick Bet-David?

  Zero tolerance when it comes on to that. Zero. My entire conversation with them was, okay, so now you run one of the bigger sites. If you're running one of the bigger sites, that traffic comes through you. What if laws can force you to do the right thing? Because if they don't go to Pornhub, that traffic's going somewhere. It's gonna go somewhere. What if that becomes a standard and enforcing all the other companies that are benefiting from it to say, here's the guidelines you have to follow?

• 1:31:49Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:31:50Patrick Bet-David?

  Because you can take this guy down who's selling cocaine to everybody in the community, somebody else gonna go sell that cocaine it's gonna go some some's gonna happen versus getting to the bottom of it and seeing where's the cocaine coming in from where's the fentanyl coming in from where are we selling this stuff how do we what do we do with the damages that this is taking place I posted something the other day which obviously is not you know constitutionally it's illegal I said you know this whole illegal immigration stuff if somebody commits a crime in America and you're a US citizen you know whatever the laws you get the crime but if you commit a crime in America and you're if you want to pull it up Rob on one of my tweets and you're an illegal immigrant I think the punishment should be five to 10 times and if it has to do with anything to do with kids rape anything you go to jail for the rest of your life zero tolerance

• 1:32:34Patrick Bet-David?

  come do that on our homeland you get death penalty done don't touch our kids don't touch our women don't mess with them you're going straight to jail and even at the highest level death penalty and obviously that's a little extreme for some people it's my position I think there needs to be some kind of a punishment if you mess with this great country that we're living in right now yeah this is the one well I appreciate your passion for justice no I'm not I'm not okay with that I'm not okay with that because and and the other part is educating like when I joined the army I'll never forget when I joined the army our drill sergeant taught us I was 18 years old we're at a unit and they said hey guys before you have sex with a girl ID them can you imagine how weird of a thing that is to say like what do you mean

• 1:33:17Patrick Bet-David?

  he says before you're gonna go because you're gonna go out you're gonna have a lot of interaction with girls they like guys in uniform ID them don't do anything that's kind of weird why everybody's asking why why

• 1:33:30Patrick Bet-David?

  if they tell you they're 18 don't believe it until you see the ID and then you see a couple guys that that fear they put in the young men it was like dude you know some of us are like a deterrent right you know for some of us to go 30 and up or like look I'm just gonna be like you don't look over 30 I'm playing the other game to be a little bit safer so I don't have to worry about it now this is 18 we live in a different kind of a life but some guys are like nah it's gonna be alright it's gonna be alright boom guy got arrested went to military jail let me tell you that scared the crap out of a lot of people very quickly but you also need to shape the mindset of young kids of what's possible right my son right now is learning how to fight and he's a very good fighter right now it annoys me because he kicks me

• 1:34:11Patrick Bet-David?

  so when I'm he's 12 years old he still thinks he can be daddy I'll whoop his tail right now still but I think he's got two more years before it's gonna be dangerous for me to threaten him if we fight But I had a talk with him last night. I said, listen, bro. Just because I'm having you train with this UFC guys and you're getting very good. You mess around anything in school, you do something. There is not suspension. You're getting kicked out of school. You can't be using this weapon that you're learning here. This is not a joke what you're learning. You can really hurt somebody. He says, no, I get it that. I said, you just got to realize. We'll make the investment, but make sure this is to prevent fights, not to have fights. So someone needs to coach these young men. Someone needs to have, it's preventative, right? It's as much preventative as it is. You know, because we have to be proactive, like a lot of parents I talk to.

• 1:34:55Patrick Bet-David?

  I'm afraid to talk to my kids about sex. Well, you better do because somebody else will. I'm afraid to talk to my kids about drugs. You better talk to them. Before somebody else does. Well, I'm just worried about it. It's embarrassing. It's uncomfortable. No, you got to do it. So I think it's both preventative. I think it's both proactive. And then at the same time. Making sure the punishment for underage is so high that scares the crap out of companies.

• 1:35:19Speaker 02

  But not only underage, I think we need it for also because adults are. Are definitely suffering from, I mean.

• 1:35:26Patrick Bet-David?

  If you're saying revenge porn and stuff like that, of course, any, no, no, no. To me, it's underage that, but rape is rape across the board. Doesn't matter how old you are, young or. Human trafficking is human trafficking for anybody that's doing any of that. That to me is the highest level. Underage, when some of these guys are doing that to make the money.

• 1:35:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, there's a spectrum of abuse.

• 1:35:47Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, let me give this data. Let me give this data. Let me give this data because you just said that I was going to wrap up, but I'll give you this data. So you ready? So as of 2023. Global US sex and trafficking statistics. Approximately 49.6 million individuals are estimated to be in modern slavery worldwide encompassing. Forced labor and sex trafficking of which. 12 million are children of which. 54% of those are women, girls. In modern slavery, it's $150 billion a year industry. And then it breaks down to say in America. The states, number one is California, number three is Texas, number two is Texas, number three is Florida, each state I've lived in a minimum of four years.

• 1:36:31Patrick Bet-David?

  But as you go a little bit deeper, you see it's also happening on adults. The percentage of what's going on with adults, because typically you think about human trafficking, you think underage, there's a lot that's above 18 years old that this is happening to as well. This is a real issue. I would be very curious to know whether it's Pam Monday, Trump, any of those guys. I think Musk is not one that's a fan of this at all. Neither is Vivek, neither is Trump. It would be very interesting to see how the current administration attacks this issue. That is an epidemic that very few people have the courage to talk about. And even when we do these types of podcasts, right? People say, they'll message me, Pat, get off this topic, it's painful to watch.

• 1:37:16Patrick Bet-David?

  You gotta watch it, it's real. But go back to the business stuff and all this other stuff. Look, I'm doing it because I want parents to be aware that this is out there. And we have to get more educated.

• 1:37:28Speaker 02

  I appreciate that so much that you're doing that, that you're shining this light because there's nothing. We can't stop it, we can't prevent it, and I love your heart for prevention. Because this can't be a game of whack a mole. If we're going to solve a problem at scale, and we're talking about online sex trafficking, or we're talking about online sexual abuse, there are solutions that can prevent it at scale. And I think that that's what we really need to focus on, yes, justice, but also like you just said, prevention, prevention is the key. And thank you for shining a light, thank you for using your platform. Because what I've seen, what I've learned is that this movement needs all of us. And the businessman who has a platform, the lawmaker, the journalist, the lawyer, everybody.

• 1:38:09Speaker 02

  And including everybody at home who could simply click share, click like, make a comment. It actually means something.

• 1:38:16Patrick Bet-David?

  No, for sure. Again, share this with everybody and folks. Click on the link below, go order the book, Take Down, and support Leila. Because, you know, Leila's got her own set of things that she has to deal with. Family, you talked about, you know, kids and all the things that you're doing. To dedicate your time to something like this. And get to the bottom of it and having some powerful people that are coming after you and targeting you, it's not easy to do. So if you want to support her, please go order a book that just came out a few months ago. Support Take Down Inside the Fight to Shut Down Pornhub for Child Abuse, Rape, and Sex Trafficking. Leila, I'm glad I responded and I'm glad you reached out for us to sit down and have this conversation. You're amazing. Keep at it.

• 1:38:57Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:38:57Patrick Bet-David?

  Anytime. Take care, everybody. Bye bye, bye bye. You're gonna think I'm crazy when I tell you this, but the last thirteen and a half years, I've been working on my first fiction book to write, ever. Fiction book to write. And while I finished this book a year ago, I got the strangest phone call about one of the characters in the book where the guy wanted to meet with me and he read the book and afterwards is like, wait a minute, am I the villain in the book? This is a story about a character named Asher, who is half Armenian, half Assyrian, whose father was involved in the Iranian revolution, linked to Savak, working with the Shah, that they escape and he gets recruited to a secret society. Well, when you go to the secret society, it's been around for a couple thousand years, they've

• 1:39:41Patrick Bet-David?

  developed some of the craziest leaders of all time, and they test you. There's unique tests that they have at the society where they test to see your emotional mental toughness. One of the tests that they have is very rigorous. It's purely mental. Of course, there's a physical one, but one is mental and emotional. If you're Armenian, if you're Assyrian, if you're Persian, this is a book you're gonna be reading and saying, holy moly, this the kind of stuff you talk about in here? Yes. If you're somebody that's fascinated by history, this is a book for you. Characters, there's a technology that this society, secret society builds, where you go into a vault, I won't spoil it for you, when you go down, they have a technology where you get to sit down and watch and have a three, four hour conversation with Tupac.

• 1:40:22Patrick Bet-David?

  You can set up a debate between Karl Marx and Ayn Rand. Karl Marx is in the book, who wrote Communist Manifesto. Ayn Rand, who wrote Atlas Shrugged, is in the book. Marilyn Monroe explains the concept of seduction and sex in the book. When you read the book, it's about development of the next leaders in the world and how they do it and how they've been doing it for many years. And it's also about how to pre- The end of civilization and how this organization goes about doing it. So I've never written a parenting book before, but if I ever wrote a parenting book, this is the closest thing to it because it's all mindset, a lot of crazy stories. Again, thirteen and a half years. Trust me, I told myself I will not publish this book until I sell my insurance company and I'm fully disconnected from it,

• 1:41:06Patrick Bet-David?

  where it's no longer my responsibility a hundred percent. When you read this, if you're a creative person, if you like fiction books, if you enjoyed Atlas Shrugged, if you enjoy Divergent, if you like books like that, I think you can enjoy reading this book. It's the creative side. Business books is very easy. Here's how you do it. Here's how this works. This is very creative. If you haven't placed your order yet, now you can order it on Simon and Schuster, Amazon. I'm going to put the link up below somewhere here, maybe even in my profile. Go order the book and read it. I sincerely, I've never written a book where I can't wait to read your reviews, to see what you think about this book. So I'm going on this wild journey and we have some plans with this book here.

• 1:41:50Patrick Bet-David?

  If you support the things that I work on, I would appreciate you going to reading the book, order the book on Amazon and then post a review.

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• 1:42:31Patrick Bet-David?

  Honey, that flu keeping you up?

• 1:42:33Speaker 07

  Yeah, I don't got this.

• 1:42:34Patrick Bet-David?

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