Pod Insights Park Predators The Loner About this episode When a couple is viciously murdered in a shelter on the Appalachian Trail in 1981, their killer is caught…However, two best friends on a fishing and camping trip more than 20 years later discover in the worst possible way that he returned to a familiar hunting ground.
Transcript 0:00 Speaker 00 Hi park enthusiasts. I'm your host, Delia D'Ambra. And the story I'm going to tell you about today is harrowing. It takes place along Dismal Creek, which intersects with a portion of the Appalachian Trail on the border of Virginia and West Virginia. In that area is the AT's Wapati Shelter, a small wooden structure that's widely used as a camping spot by hikers traversing the famous trail. It's technically located in Giles County, Virginia, but we're not talking about a place that's a hop, skip, and a jump from the nearest town or anything. It's out there, in thick woods, intentionally placed in a remote location, but easily accessible to hikers wanting to take a rest.
0:41 Speaker 00 The National Park Service's website for the AT warns that enjoying the trail and all its beauty requires visitors to have a certain level of vigilance and awareness of the terrain and people around them. The 2,000-mile-plus trail is generally considered safe, but as you all know from previous cases I've covered on this show, it has seen its fair share of violent crime over the years. An NPS warning online states, quote, "Acts of kindness and trail magic are so common on the AT that it's easy to forget you could encounter someone who does not have your best interest at heart, or who may even seek to harm you. This is more likely to occur near roads or occasionally at shelters, but it can happen anywhere," end quote.
1:25 Speaker 00 And I can't think of a truer example of that reality taking form than the cases I'm going to discuss in this episode. Because you see, a human predator roaming this particular section of the AT didn't just attack two unsuspecting victims. He went after four people. This is Park Predators.
2:25 Speaker 00 On Friday, May 29, 1981, a few days after Memorial Day weekend, a group of hikers staying at a hostel near the Appalachian Trail in Perrisburg, Virginia, were growing increasingly worried. Two fellow travelers they'd expected to arrive nine days earlier had still not shown up. The overdue hikers were 27-year-old Robert Mountford Jr. and 26-year-old Laura Susan Ramsey, who it appears was most often referred to by her middle name, Susan. So for the rest of this episode, that's what I'm going to refer to her by. At some point on that Friday, the folks at the hostel got so concerned about the pair that they contacted their families to let them know what was going on.
3:07 Speaker 00 Susan's parents, Ginny and Bud Ramsey, live near Cleveland, Ohio. And Robert's family was in Dover-Foxcroft, Maine, though Robert himself lived about an hour southeast of there in Ellsworth, Maine. Media coverage at the time reported that investigators learned from store operators in the area of Crandon, Virginia, which is near the AT and nearby Bland County, that Robert and Susan had been spotted at that shop on May 19. When investigators checked log books at several trail shelters along the AT after that point, they didn't see any entries that had been left behind by Robert or Susan, which I imagine felt kind of odd. However, a couple who was hiking the trail about a week behind the pair knew them well
3:48 Speaker 00 and told authorities that notes from the missing duo were present at shelters further back on the trail. In fact, the last note they'd found that was penned by Robert and Susan was at a shelter near Mount Rogers, Virginia, in Jefferson National Forest. So with this information in mind, authorities were able to narrow down with some specificity where Robert and Susan had essentially dropped off the radar.
4:11 Speaker 00 According to additional coverage by the Roanoke Times, the next day, Saturday, May 30th, a full-scale search got underway. The Giles County Rescue Squad, along with numerous other rescue crews from neighboring agencies, scoured roughly 32 miles of the AT between Giles and Bland Counties, looking for any sign of the missing couple. The reason searchers focused on this specific 32-mile stretch of the trail was because a witness had come forward on Friday, the 29th, and said that they'd previously seen the couple headed in that direction. That particular stretch was also deemed to be some of the roughest terrain to hike, so I think the thinking there was that if Robert and Susan were both alive and well seen hiking through that stretch of the AT, then it was natural to assume that maybe
4:56 Speaker 00 whatever happened to them occurred there. Basically, it was just the authorities' most logical way of narrowing down the search radius. At some point on that Saturday, both Robert and Susan's parents arrived from Maine and Ohio to assist with the ongoing efforts, and searchers brought in tracking dogs to try and speed up the progress. By 7:00 PM that night, though, the case took a turn for the worse when crews discovered a body in the woods. Roland Kidwell reported for the Roanoke Times that investigators with the Virginia State Police and Giles County Sheriff's Office located what they believed were Susan's remains not far from the Wapati Shelter, which is a wooden log shelter about 200 yards
5:37 Speaker 00 from the AT and roughly 6 to 7 miles from the nearest accessible road. The following afternoon, Sunday, May 31st, searchers went back out to the woods with dogs and quickly came across another body that investigators believed was Robert's. The next day, June 1st, when the deputy chief medical examiner for Western Virginia conducted the couple's autopsies, he and the Giles County Medical Examiner weren't sure at first how the pair had actually died. But one thing was clear: foul play was suspected to be involved. At the time, a special agent for the state police couldn't release any information about the crime or crime scene, and honestly, at that point, even if he could have, he literally
6:19 Speaker 00 wasn't able to confirm if the victims had been killed by another person or not. Like I said, they suspected foul play, but didn't have much to really prove it yet. And I think the reason for that was likely the deteriorated condition in which Robert and Susan's bodies were found when they were discovered. You see, according to a retired Giles County Deputy Sheriff who spoke with producers for a TV program titled Dead Silent, authorities believe that Susan and Robert had likely stopped to camp at Wapati Shelter on May 19th, about a week before their bodies were found, and died sometime shortly after that. The deputy ME who did their autopsies ultimately used their dental records to confirm their identifications because their remains had already undergone the effects of decomposition.
7:04 Speaker 00 According to later coverage by the Associated Press via the Danville Register and B, as well as the Daily Progress, the deputy ME ultimately concluded that Susan had been beaten and stabbed multiple times, and Robert's cause of death was three gunshot wounds to his head from a small caliber firearm. The Roanoke Times reported that lab tests showed Susan had not been sexually assaulted. But again, all the ME had to work with were her decomposed remains, so who knows? Once news of the murders got to the public, folks who were familiar with that section of the Appalachian Trail or who were planning on hiking it were terrified. Reporter Mike Gangloff told producers for Dead Silent that for several days, authorities
7:47 Speaker 00 shut down a portion of the AT around the shelter, and there was a noticeable police presence in the woods while the investigation was ongoing. A priest at a local Catholic church, which operated as a hostel for some 400 trail hikers each year, told reporters Roland Kidwell and Richard Pryor that the killings really scared folks who were staying at the hostel. The Appalachian Trail Conference, which is now known as the Appalachian Trail Conservancy, also addressed the murders by issuing a warning encouraging hikers to go around the part of the trail that Robert and Susan had been killed on. This was mostly for people's own safety, but also because law enforcement needed to preserve as much evidence as possible, without having random folks just traipsing through what could be very well the same ground the killer or killers walked on.
8:35 Speaker 00 Based on everything I read about Robert and Susan, they seemed to be really nice and caring people who were experienced when it came to traversing the outdoors. For example, prior to starting his hike on the AT, Robert had recently left his job at a place called The Homestead Project, which was a residential treatment center for young people experiencing difficulties in Ellsworth. Susan, who had relocated from Ohio to Maine, worked at that same center with Robert as she'd been involved in the organization's outdoors program. Prior to his time at the youth center, Robert had also worked as a social worker for Maine's Child Protective Services and the Bangor Mental Health Institute. Susan had attended graduate school in New England and studied subjects like art therapy, which is now considered a legitimate form of therapy,
9:20 Speaker 00 but at the time was described by UPI News as a "experimental method of working with emotionally unstable people." During her time at The Homestead Project, Susan was known for her unwavering belief that every single person was important, no matter what they were dealing with. One reason Robert had decided to hike the AT in the first place was to raise money for a mental health services facility his mother was the director of. A former coworker told The Roanoke Times that hiking the AT had also been a longtime dream of Robert's, and he'd started preparing for the trek about a year in advance. Susan had only planned to join him for a portion of the trip. At the beginning of May, she used two weeks of vacation to travel from Maine and hike with him on the trail
10:05 Speaker 00 from Damascus, Virginia, near the Tennessee border, to Parisburg, Virginia, which is about 45 minutes northeast of the Wapati Shelter by car, or just under seven hours if you're on foot. And actually, when I looked up how long this would take to walk from Damascus to Parisburg on Google Maps, it didn't find a route that calculated the exact time or distance via the Appalachian Trail, but my best estimate is that it would have required at least a few days to traverse, given that there are changes in elevation and it's not a perfectly straight line. Anyway, what is clear from the source material is that when this crime occurred, Robert was only about two months into his journey. He started on April 1st and intended to hike for six months with an anticipated completion
10:48 Speaker 00 date sometime at the end of September. According to UPI's reporting, on May 16th, Susan had called the director of the Homestead Project, asking if she could get a little bit more time off to hike with Robert, but promised she would come back to Maine by bus on the 24th. But as we know, Susan never caught that bus. And when the 24th rolled around and she didn't arrive, one of her coworkers at the Homestead Project, who was supposed to meet her, knew that was unlike her. This coworker knew Susan was normally really responsible, and she would have called if she was going to be late. But I guess at the time, alarm bells didn't go off, because we know that Susan wasn't reported missing until a few days later, when it became very apparent on the 29th
11:31 Speaker 00 that something was very wrong. Susan's father, Bud Ramsey, told the Associated Press via The Daily Progress, that he hadn't thought twice about his daughter's safety while she was hiking the AT, because he knew she was an experienced hiker who had survival skills and wilderness training. In fact, several years before this, in 1977, Susan had driven alone across the country to visit Yellowstone National Park. On her way back home to Ohio, she'd gotten caught in a blizzard in Wyoming and encountered a herd of elk that damaged her car. She actually ended up stuck in Wyoming for more than a week by herself, but eventually made it back home in one piece. Now, as far as whether there was anything romantic going on between her and Robert
12:15 Speaker 00 during their travels, Bud told the news services that the pair may have had a spark or some kind of crush between them, but they were not, to his knowledge, in a deeply involved relationship or anything like that. Over the course of a few days after the bodies were discovered, investigators processed the crime scene and noticed a few things that stuck out. According to coverage by the Associated Press, both of the victims' bodies were found in sleeping bags, and it appeared that someone had used vegetation to try and conceal them, and a few of their personal belongings. According to information their family shared with the press, both Robert and Susan were known to hike in boots and carry knapsacks and valuable cameras with them. Authorities determined that Susan's camera was still at the crime scene, but the film
13:00 Speaker 00 inside of it had been removed. Interestingly, Susan's dad told the Associated Press that the actual sleeping bags his daughter and Robert's bodies were discovered in did not belong to them. And even more bizarre, the bags that were theirs were missing. He also noted that the ME had found defensive wounds on Susan's hands and arms, indicating that she'd tried to fight off her attacker. That same article reported that the logbook for the Wapati Shelter was also missing along with personal travel logs that Robert and Susan usually carried in their knapsacks. According to coverage by UPI via the Suffolk News Herald, on June 3, authorities were continuing to search the crime scene and surrounding area
13:44 Speaker 00 for clues, but they ran into some bad weather which hampered their efforts to preserve things like foot tracks. Despite that, they were still able to interview at least a dozen witnesses who'd been on the trail, as well as gather additional information that supported a theory they were beginning to feel very strongly about. Which was that the murders had likely occurred around the same time and several days before the victims' remains were found. On June 5, nearly one week into the murder investigation, authorities announced they were looking for a man between the ages of 25 and 30, who might be a prime suspect. They didn't tell reporters the guy's name, but said he'd been attending a local community college in a neighboring town.
14:27 Speaker 00 Investigators described the man as somewhere between 5'8" to 5'10", with dark hair and a short beard, and was wearing a green fatigue shirt, jeans, and work boots. He was also said to have what was described in a publication at the time as a "strong rural accent". All of this information had come from hikers who said they'd seen a man matching that description speaking with Susan on May 19. At that time, the guy had been carrying a sleeping bag, dark-colored plaid flannel shirt, and a hunting knife in a sheath. Thanks to this description, law enforcement created a composite sketch of the man, but they refused to publicly release his name. While investigators waited for additional info to come in, they seized wooden boards
15:10 Speaker 00 from the inside of the shelter that had bloodstains on them and continued combing through the woods around the crime scene. Amazingly, they hit a stroke of luck when they discovered Susan's backpack with a paperback book still inside it. When they flipped open the novel, it had what looked like smudges of blood on some of the pages. Fortunately for investigators, there was a fairly visible fingerprint impression in that blood. So I imagine excited about this crucial lead, they quickly had it analyzed, and it came back as belonging to a 27-year-old man from Perrisburg, Virginia, named Randall Lee Smith. The reason they were able to find a match for his prints so easily was because Randall
15:52 Speaker 00 had worked as a welder in shipyards in Norfolk, Virginia, where a ton of vessels for the United States Navy are made and docked. I couldn't tell from the source material, though, if Randall was the same guy that law enforcement said they'd been looking for, or if that was another person. But if that guy and Randall were one and the same, then I think maybe the discovery of the bloody fingerprint in the book at the crime scene had to have occurred before investigators issued that message to the public about the dark-haired guy from the composite sketch. I don't know for sure, though. Like I said, that part of the story is a bit confusing. But either way, when investigators with Giles County Sheriff's Office went to Randall's house, his mother Loretta answered the door, and right out the gate, she told them she
16:36 Speaker 00 thought she knew why they were there, but she wasn't going to let them come inside without a warrant. Fortunately, authorities had one of those, but when they got inside, Randall was nowhere in sight. So getting an interview with him was not going to happen, but since they were already there and had the proper paperwork to take a look around, they searched the house for anything that might be helpful to their investigation.
17:00 Speaker 00 When they went into rooms that Randall mainly used, they found some disturbing items. There were a bunch of pictures of naked women all taped together, a knapsack, a torn jacket, and a pair of what were described as cut-off shorts with red stains on them. Curious about those red stains, investigators collected the shorts as evidence and at some point shortly thereafter, had them tested to see if it was blood. And wouldn't you know it, the results from that testing proved that not only were the stains human blood, but it belonged to Susan Ramsey. So with that information in hand, investigators knew Randall was most likely their guy. There was just one problem. No one knew where he was.
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18:32 Speaker 00 Give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns, now available in Canada and the UK, too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Park Predators. It's the best way to support the show.
18:53 Speaker 01 You know that thing where you're scrolling the internet and suddenly you're three hours deep into a celebrity lawsuit?
18:58 Speaker 02 Or you hear a courtroom term and think, wait, what does that actually mean?
19:02 Speaker 01 I'm Eliza Orland, career public defender.
19:05 Speaker 02 And I'm Taya Johnson, law professor and legal analyst.
19:08 Speaker 01 And on our brand-new podcast, Criminally Online, we break down the law behind the stories you can't stop talking about.
19:14 Speaker 02 No legal degree required, just curiosity. Find Criminally Online wherever you get your podcasts.
19:29 Speaker 00 In early June, not long after Giles County deputies searched Randall's mother's house in Virginia and discovered a pair of shorts with Susan's blood on them, investigators caught up to him in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. And when I say caught up to him, I mean more like caught up to something that belonged to him. According to coverage by the Associated Press, on Monday, June 8th, almost a week and a half after Robert and Susan's bodies were found, law enforcement in Myrtle Beach located a four-wheel-drive pickup truck that belonged to Randall in some woods. It had been left abandoned, and a handwritten note was found inside the ashtray. However, at the time, authorities wouldn't release what exactly that note said. I did find a handful of articles published later, though, that reported the message
20:14 Speaker 00 loosely mentioned Robert and Susan's deaths. So, yeah, pretty damning stuff. A few days later, on Thursday, June 11th, investigators publicly identified Randall as their prime suspect and issued arrest warrants for him, but they still couldn't pin down where he was. Referring to how the Mountford family felt toward the suspected killer during this time, Robert's father, Robert Mountford, Sr., told the Roanoke Times, quote, "It will make us feel much easier when he is apprehended. We do not hold any animosity or hatred. We do want to see him caught for the safety of other hikers. Hate only breeds hate."
20:56 Speaker 00 The next day, the FBI joined South Carolina and Virginia investigators who were trying to track down Randall, and even issued a federal warrant that charged him with illegal interstate flight to avoid prosecution. The search for him dragged on for several days, though, without fruitful results, and at one point, authorities even considered that maybe Randall had died by suicide. But those suspicions quickly disappeared on the morning of Monday, June 22nd, when investigators found him at a makeshift campsite in a remote section of woods not far from where he'd abandoned his pickup truck. I know, I was kind of surprised that Randall was seemingly there the whole time, too, and I'm not sure what that says about authorities' search efforts, but according to an article
21:38 Speaker 00 by the Richmond Times-Dispatch, it seems that investigators had initially searched that area, but, once the manhunt for Randall slowed, they got the idea to go back and look again, you know, just in case. And that's when they found him and arrested him. After a somewhat lengthy but unsuccessful fight to avoid extradition back to Virginia, Randall was eventually returned home on July 19th to face the charges against him. But when detectives sat him down to discuss Robert and Susan's murders, he wouldn't cooperate. He simply said he didn't want to talk about it. Interestingly, prior to being extradited back to Virginia, an attorney who'd represented Randall in South Carolina told the Associated Press that he, meaning Randall, was unable to recall
22:21 Speaker 00 his own name, said he didn't know anything about Robert or Susan's murder, couldn't tell officials where he was from, or even how he'd ended up in South Carolina. I know, strange. His lawyer said that even when Loretta, Randall's mom, came to visit him in jail, Randall indicated that he didn't know who she was. In the wake of his arrest, reporters Chuck Burris and Cheryl Downey-Laskowitz interviewed several people who knew Randall and learned that he'd never been in trouble with the law. Randall was an only child, who'd lived most of his life in Giles County with his mother and aunt and uncle. One of his neighbors and a former teacher described him to the Roanoke Times as "a good boy who seemed to spend
23:04 Speaker 00 a lot of time hunting in the woods." As far as any of them knew, he was just a normal, quiet kid who didn't have many friends and didn't stick out in a crowd. Reporter Mike Gangloff told producers for Dead Silent that Randall was a bit of an outcast who usually stayed home with his mom or walked alone in the national forest collecting arrowheads. During his youth, his uncle had taken him hunting, fishing, and camping in the national forest a few times, in areas along the Appalachian Trail. About a month before Susan and Robert's murders, Randall had left his job as a welder at a mining equipment plant in Perrisburg. And based on what I read in the coverage, that departure was because of differences between him and the company about his work performance. When hikers and organizations
23:49 Speaker 00 associated with the AT learned he'd been arrested for Robert and Susan's murders, many of those folks were elated. The director of the Appalachian Trail Conference told reporter Robert Brickhouse that "the entire incident would most likely make travelers more vigilant." He stated, quote, "I think the memory will linger, certainly. Perhaps that's not bad. It will encourage people to be cautious, but it doesn't indicate that the trail itself is an undesirable place to be," end quote.
24:19 Speaker 00 While the manhunt and everything for Randall was going on, Robert Mountford's family laid him to rest in Maine with more than 300 people attending a service in his honor. His body was later cremated. Susan was laid to rest at the Sims Family Cemetery in Michigan. During Randall's first appearance in court on July 22, the judge appointed two public defenders to represent him and ordered he be held under $200,000 bond. With the case headed toward trial, the lead prosecutor said the state felt like it had a strong case for murder, even though nearly all the evidence was circumstantial and there were no witnesses. At that time, the only physical evidence the prosecution had was the book that had
25:01 Speaker 00 been found with blood in it that contained Randall's fingerprint. Which, by the way, that blood was type B, the same type as Robert's. There was also a plaid shirt with blood on it, bloody wooden boards from the trail shelter, a pair of jeans, presumably Randall's with blood on them, and a pair of cutoff jeans with blood on them. Because Randall's former attorney in South Carolina had said his client was unable to remember who he was, or his mom, and all that stuff, the judge presiding over the case ordered Randall undergo a mental health evaluation to determine whether or not he had in fact suffered some kind of amnesia, or perhaps something else. Two months later, in September, doctors who did that evaluation determined he was competent
25:44 Speaker 00 to stand trial because he was, quote, "utilizing a selective, self-serving memory," end quote. AKA, he hadn't forgotten who he was, or who Robert and Susan were, he was just choosing not to remember. In the months after Randall's arrest, things on the AT went back to normal in some respects, but overall, the number of people hiking through the particular section that Robert and Susan were killed on was less than previous years. A field rep for the Appalachian Trail Conference told the Associated Press, quote, "Everything's going fine. What happened at Wapati Shelter is a one-in-a-million type of thing. It could have happened anywhere," end quote.
26:25 Speaker 00 Still, travelers were encouraged to contact friends and family regularly while hiking, and stay away from locations that could be accessed by just anyone. As Randall's case got closer to trial, his defense lawyers requested that he be tried separately for Robert and Susan's murders. And so because of that, each murder charge was individually considered by a Giles County Circuit Court grand jury. In early December, that panel decided to indict him for both killings, and his trial for Susan's murder was set to start on March 22, 1982, with Roberts following shortly after that in late April. However, quite a few things happened before that point. Randall's defense team fought hard to have all of the evidence related to the search
27:09 Speaker 00 of his pickup truck in Myrtle Beach suppressed. This included that note which had loosely referred to Robert and Susan. His lawyers argued that South Carolina authorities had failed to obtain a search warrant when they initially entered his vehicle and retrieved the note. Therefore, it shouldn't be allowed in as evidence. Handwriting experts for the state had apparently determined, after obtaining some other writings from Randall, that most of the characters and letters in that suspicious note were very similar to his handwriting. So it was kind of a big deal for the state to make sure that piece of evidence didn't get tossed out before trial. Something else the defense wanted quashed was Randall's first mental health evaluation. To deal with that request, doctors at the University of Virginia School of Medicine
27:53 Speaker 00 conducted a second psychiatric evaluation on him in early March 1982. But once again, the staff determined that he was competent enough to stand trial. In the end, though, all of this back and forth about evidence and competency didn't matter because, according to Estes Thompson's reporting for the Associated Press, on March 23, 1982, on what was supposed to be the first day of his trial for Susan's murder, Randall decided to plead guilty to two counts of second-degree murder for both killings. The judge overseeing the case sentenced him right then and there to 30 years in prison, 15 years for each count to be served consecutively.
28:34 Speaker 00 Because Randall didn't have a prior criminal record, he would be eligible for parole after serving at least a fourth of his sentence, which equated to seven and a half years. Susan's parents were in court when he entered his plea and told the press afterwards that they thought the punishment the judge doled out was fair, and they were essentially just glad to know their daughter's killer would spend time behind bars. Robert's family mostly felt the same way, except for his younger brother, Steve. He told Roanoke Times reporter Pam Chesser that he didn't feel the punishment fit the crime. To put it in his own words, he said, quote, "My brother won't be back in seven and a half years. Susan Ramsey won't be back in seven and a half years. Is that justice?
29:19 Speaker 00 I am not asking you. I am saying it is not." He later continued, "I'm pretty sick to my stomach. If that's right, then I don't want to know what's wrong. There's not enough devils, there's not enough gods, to bring Bob back." Another person who took issue with Randall's seemingly light sentence was a man named Warren Doyle. Warren was a 32-year-old trail hiker and college professor from West Virginia who'd traversed the AT four times. He took it upon himself to protest and picket in front of the Giles County courthouse the day after Randall's plea deal was signed. According to another article by Pam Chesser for the Roanoke Times, even though Warren
30:03 Speaker 00 wasn't from the immediate area and didn't know Robert and Susan personally, he was deeply unsatisfied with the outcome of the case. He expressed that he felt there should have been a jury trial and Giles County citizens should have had the opportunity to decide Randall's fate for themselves. In a photo featured alongside the article, you can see Warren carrying a sign that reads, quote, "Did Bob and Sue plea for their lives? Did Randall Lee Smith give them a bargain? Shame on the murderer. Shame on our judicial system. One knifes the living, the other knifes the survivors." Even though Warren's protesting wouldn't change the outcome of the case, he still felt
30:45 Speaker 00 like it was his duty to at least get citizens of Giles County to question the fairness of Randall's plea deal. He was even hopeful some kind of formal rally would be held, but because he wasn't from Giles County, he didn't feel it was his place to pull something like that together. He told Pam Chesser, quote, "I feel that local citizens should organize it. There are people who are concerned. They like living in Giles County, but they feel like this gives them a black eye." End quote.
31:14 Speaker 00 One of the reasons Randall received what some folks viewed as a lenient sentence was because the prosecutor did not feel confident that the evidence the state had against him was strong enough to prove premeditation. The prosecution also couldn't determine a motive for the murders, which in a first-degree murder case is something jurors like to see laid out for them. Underlying frustrations about Randall's plea deal boiled over a few years later in 1986 when it was announced that he was up for parole. According to an article by Lawrence Hammack for the Roanoke Times, less than five years into his sentence, Virginia State Parole Board was considering letting Randall out early, and Robert and Susan's families were not happy about that.
31:59 Speaker 00 Robert's father, Robert Mountford Sr., told the newspaper, quote, "He's not even serving for one death, let alone two. What he got was little enough. To be paroled in as little as five years would be a complete travesty of justice." He later continued, "This is something that we are going to have to live with for the rest of our lives. We won't get paroled in 10 years or in 15 years. We won't ever get paroled." End quote. Susan's dad, Bud Ramsey, shared similar feelings. He said in part, quote, "It was our daughter, but I would feel the same way if it was someone else's. I think the parole board would not be doing its duty to let a guy who did what he did out on the streets." End quote.
32:44 Speaker 00 Even more frustrating was the fact that neither of the victims' families had been notified by the parole board that Randall was up for early release. They'd only learned about him possibly getting out early after a newspaper reporter contacted them via phone and told them. In response to the idea that Randall could be freed sooner than expected, Robert and Susan's relatives and supporters pushed back against Randall's parole and aggressively campaigned to the media, parole board, and politicians to make sure he was kept behind bars. Jenny Ramsey, Susan's mom, said that she was worried by the thought of Randall roaming the streets again as a free man. Other loved ones said they were concerned he would kill again, maybe even on the A.T.
33:28 Speaker 00 if he was given the opportunity to return home. A former Giles County Sheriff's deputy told producers for Dead Silent that he had serious concerns about Randall getting out. He straight up said he had no doubt he would reoffend. In the end, the parole board decided not to grant Randall early release in 1986, and they continued to deny his requests at least seven more times, until 1996. In September of that year, after serving 15 years in prison, the state of Virginia decided it was time to set Randall free. The now 43-year-old was paroled but under 10 years' supervision and returned home to Parisburg to live with his mom.
34:12 Speaker 00 But that would not be the last time anyone heard about him, or his propensity for violence. Not by a long shot.
34:25 Speaker 00 There's nothing quite like having pieces in your closet you love and count on for any occasion. Whether you're shopping for yourself or picking out gifts for loved ones, Quince is the perfect place to find versatile essentials this holiday season. Quince makes elevated everyday essentials using luxury materials like Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton, and premium stretch denim. Beyond apparel, they offer hotel-quality bedding, leather bags, and five-star luggage. I personally have several of their white Turkish cotton non-slip bath rugs in our master bathroom as we speak. In my most recent order, though, I went all in on the fall/winter clothing collection. I got this amazing washable stretch silk slip dress that honestly is going to be my go-to for pretty much anywhere.
35:09 Speaker 00 Give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the U.K. too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Park Predators. It's the best way to support the show.
35:31 Speaker 01 You know that thing where you're scrolling the internet and suddenly you're three hours deep into a celebrity lawsuit?
35:35 Speaker 02 Where you hear a courtroom term and think, wait, what does that actually mean?
35:39 Speaker 01 I'm Eliza Orland, career public defender.
35:42 Speaker 02 And I'm Taya Johnson, law professor and legal analyst.
35:45 Speaker 01 And on our brand new podcast, Criminally Online, we break down the law behind the stories you can't stop talking about.
35:51 Speaker 02 No legal degree required, just curiosity. Find Criminally Online wherever you get your podcasts.
36:06 Speaker 00 On Tuesday, May 6, 2008, 37-year-old Scott Johnston was driving along a narrow, bumpy gravel road, deep in the woods near Dismal Creek in Virginia, when all of a sudden, a dog appeared out of nowhere, right in front of him. He immediately could tell something wasn't right with the animal, because it was noticeably skinny and appeared to be very hungry. Scott even began to rummage around in his truck to see what he might have to feed it. Curious about where the dog had come from in such a remote landscape, Scott glanced around, and that's when he noticed something else unexpected emerged from the brush: a gaunt-looking man with a white beard, wearing camouflage clothes and boots. The guy quickly signaled to Scott that the dog was his, and the two of them ended up
36:49 Speaker 00 having a conversation for a few minutes before eventually parting ways. Scott didn't really think about the encounter with the man in the woods again after that, because he had more pressing things on his mind, like going fishing and meeting up with his best friend, 33-year-old Sean Farmer, who was scheduled to arrive later that afternoon and meet him at a backcountry camping spot the pair usually used whenever they went fishing at Dismal Creek. Scott and Sean were lifelong friends who'd grown up fishing and hanging out together in the rural woods of southwest Giles County, Virginia, and the George Washington and Jefferson National Forests. While Scott waited for his friend, he fished for a few hours, and around 4:00 PM, when he was done for the day and walked back in the direction of their campsite, he saw smoke
37:33 Speaker 00 rising up into the air in the distance, which he knew was a sign that Sean had arrived and already started a fire. As soon as Scott walked into their clearing, though, he noticed another person was with Sean. It was the man from earlier, the same guy he'd encountered on the trail road, the one with the scraggly-looking dog. While Scott had been busy fishing, the man had come across Sean and introduced himself as Ricky Williams. Scott was sort of surprised to see the guy again, but it wasn't totally out of the norm to connect with hikers or strangers in those parts. A section of the Appalachian Trail ran right through that area, and it was common to encounter folks traversing the woods who were usually trying to get to a trail shelter or taking a break from their travels.
38:17 Speaker 00 Without hesitation, Scott and Sean welcomed Ricky into their campsite, and the three men shared a meal together. When they were finished eating, they all kicked back in their seats and sat around the campfire and talked. Around 8:30 PM, Ricky stood up and announced that it was getting late and signaled that he and his dog should probably get going. But then, right before Ricky stepped away, something totally unexpected happened. He pulled out a .22 caliber revolver and began firing at Scott and Sean. At first, the two friends didn't know what was happening. All they knew was that they needed to get away from Ricky. Scott was struck in the right side of his neck, once in his back, and grazed on one
38:57 Speaker 00 of his arms, but by some miracle, he was still able to run about 20 feet into the nearby woods and take cover. Sean, on the other hand, was in a much different situation. He was still stumbling around the campfire, trying to get away from Ricky. During the shooting, he'd taken one shot to his chest and another to the left side of his head. Despite his injuries and the chaos of the moment, he was able to get to his Jeep, start the engine, and escape. While that was happening, Scott hid behind a tree stump and watched what was unfolding at the campsite. He said he actually didn't realize at that moment he'd even been shot. However, when he took a beat and looked down at his body, that's when he noticed blood running from his neck.
39:41 Speaker 00 The only thing he knew to do at that moment was to slow the bleeding. And I know this might be graphic for some of you listening, but Scott literally had to plug the hole in his neck with his own finger to keep it closed. He'd watched in horror as Sean made it to his Jeep and drove off into the night, seemingly leaving him behind. He'd also witnessed Ricky jump into a Ford Ranger pickup that Scott owned and tear out of the area. Desperate to get help, Scott made his way through the woods in the dark and ended up coming out on the same roadway he'd seen Sean drive down. And astonishingly, he ran right into his friend. He immediately jumped into the passenger seat and the pair hauled tail down the mountain to find help.
40:23 Speaker 00 They had no idea where their attacker was, and their ride down the mountain was roughly four to five miles before they got to the nearest home. And we're not talking about an easy, smooth ride either. The road they were driving on was a one-lane forestry road that was rugged and could take anywhere from 15 to 20 minutes to traverse before reaching the closest residence. The men weren't sure they had that kind of time, but they kept pushing forward, trying to stay alive and navigate the treacherous terrain that lay ahead of them. Unfortunately, there was no cell service in the area, so using their cell phones was out of the question. Because Sean had been shot in his face, he was unable to see well, which made trying to drive in the darkness extremely difficult.
41:05 Speaker 00 Like Scott, he was also losing a lot of blood, so the two men came up with a plan to try and get out of the horrible situation they were in by working together. As a team, Scott, who could see more clearly, grabbed hold of the steering wheel to Sean's Jeep and kept their vehicle on a straight course while Sean used his foot to pump the accelerator. Together, they made their way down the mountain and ended up pulling into the first driveway they came to. Scott ran up to the door and banged on it, hoping someone was home. A family who lived there answered right away, and at first, they were stunned, but also a little confused. The homeowners initially thought Scott and Sean were pulling some kind of prank, but
41:46 Speaker 00 that assumption quickly vanished when they realized the extent of the men's injuries. Within minutes, the Good Samaritans got both of the men on their porch, called 911, and used towels to try and stop their bleeding. The family also let both men use their phone to call their loved ones and tell them what happened. Scott said with every minute that passed, he and Sean were genuinely worried that each other were going to die. But somehow, they kept clinging to life despite both of their conditions worsening. About 45 minutes later, an ambulance from the nearby town of Bland, Virginia, arrived, and the men were eventually airlifted to a hospital in Roanoke, Virginia. Scott told me his parents and siblings ended up meeting him at the hospital, and Sean's
42:30 Speaker 00 immediate family was also made aware of his condition. Meanwhile, authorities who'd been alerted to the shooting incident responded to the call and began looking for the suspect that Sean and Scott had described. But you want to know something wild? Ricky Williams was not actually a real person.
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43:37 Speaker 00 Give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns, now available in Canada and the UK, too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Park Predators. It's the best way to support the show.
43:58 Speaker 01 You know that thing where you're scrolling the internet and suddenly you're three hours deep into a celebrity lawsuit?
44:03 Speaker 02 Where you hear a courtroom term and think, wait, what does that actually mean?
44:07 Speaker 01 I'm Eliza Orland, career public defender.
44:09 Speaker 02 And I'm Taya Johnson, law professor and legal analyst.
44:13 Speaker 01 And on our brand new podcast, Criminally Online, we break down the law behind the stories you can't stop talking about.
44:19 Speaker 02 No legal degree required, just curiosity. Find Criminally Online wherever you get your podcasts.
44:33 Speaker 00 Turns out, according to the TV program Dead Silent and an article by Will Haygood for South Coast Today, while Sean and Scott were at the family's house who helped them, one member of that family thought the person Sean and Scott had described as their attacker sounded an awful lot like a man whose missing persons flyer had just been hung in a little country store not far from their house. In the 45 minutes it had taken for an ambulance to get to the family's house, a grandson in that family had gotten ahold of the owner of that store and retrieved the flyer. When Sean and Scott took a look at that piece of paper, they immediately recognized the picture on the poster as the guy they'd encountered who'd called himself Ricky Williams.
45:14 Speaker 00 Except the name beneath the photo they saw wasn't Ricky Williams. It was Randall Lee Smith. According to the television program Dead Silent, on April 30th, a few days before Sean and Scott were attacked, a family friend of Randall's had reported him missing to area law enforcement. At that time, he was 54 years old. Since his release from prison in 1996, he'd been living at his mother's house in Perrisburg. In July 2000, his mom died from cancer, which meant he was living alone, still in her house in 2008. When investigators started their missing person investigation for Randall in early
45:55 Speaker 00 May, they did a welfare check at his house, but didn't see anything overtly suspicious. Just a lot of mail piled up outside, which to them indicated he seemingly hadn't been home in a while. Still, because they knew who he was and that he'd previously been convicted of a double murder, they decided to make missing person flyers for him and hand them out to local businesses. You know, just in case anyone saw him.
46:19 Speaker 00 Well, one of those flyers had ended up at a grocery store a mile away from the family who'd helped save Sean and Scott. So with Randall's true identity known to law enforcement, investigators put out a BOLO for him, and because they'd learned from Sean and Scott that he'd stolen Scott's black Ford Ranger pickup, they knew what kind of vehicle he was likely driving. Not long after the alert went out for Randall, a Virginia state trooper located Scott's truck on a rural roadway in Giles County and initiated a traffic stop. But Randall didn't pull over. A chase ensued but quickly ended with the suspect overturning the truck and getting injured in the process. He was taken into custody and transported to the same hospital Sean and Scott were
47:02 Speaker 00 recovering at, but eventually died from complications from a blood clot a few days later while in custody at the New River Valley Regional Jail. If Randall had lived, he would have faced charges for two counts of attempted capital murder, two counts of using a firearm to commit a felony, grand larceny, and being a felon in possession of a firearm. In the days after the attack, Sean and Scott fought for their lives in the hospital. Sean was released first, but Scott told me he was in intensive care for several days. Once he was well enough to speak with authorities, he told them what he remembered from the night of the attack, and that's when he learned Randall had died and his pickup truck was totaled. During his interview with me, Scott said that prior to Randall attacking him and Sean,
47:47 Speaker 00 he had never even heard about Robert and Susan's case. He said that in 1981, he and Sean would have been too young and wouldn't have been paying attention to news stories like that. When I asked him if at any point Randall had seemed dangerous while they'd shared dinner together over their campfire in May 2008, he said absolutely not. Sean also said the same thing when he spoke with producers for the TV program Dead Silent. Which to me is super unsettling. I mean, Randall was someone who'd spent several hours with Sean and Scott, and at no point did he give off vibes he was a killer or was going to attack them. That's a pretty terrifying thought, but one that I've emphasized before in this show
48:29 Speaker 00 is all too common when we're interacting with people in the great outdoors. In my opinion, and I'm guilty of this too, sharing time with strangers while hiking or camping is a scenario that's easy to let your guard down in. To this day, Scott and Shawn still live with scars from Randall's attack, actual, physical scars. Scott told me that he still has the bullet that went into his back lodged near his spine. His doctors were unable to remove it because they were worried that by doing so, they could cause more harm to his spine. Shawn still has both bullets that hit him embedded in his body, too. One is in his chest and the other is in his sinus cavity. When I really dug into the men's story of survival, I realized just how unbelievable and amazing it is.
49:14 Speaker 00 Scott told me that if there's one thing the experience taught him, it's to always remain thankful for life. He said he works every day to give back to the family members and community who supported him during his recovery. And he wakes up every morning grateful to be alive. He expressed that he has a much greater appreciation for the preciousness of life in light of having gone through this. But he emphasized to Bluefield Daily Telegraph reporter Bill Archer that he's no longer as cordial and nice to strangers in the woods, which, like, same, Scott, same. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to interview Shawn Farmer for this episode because he was dealing with a family loss towards the end of last year. But in 2016, he spoke in-depth with producers for Dead Silent
49:58 Speaker 00 and said that, looking back on what happened to him and Scott, he wonders if maybe it was all just the universe's way of taking a, quote, "bad person off the earth," end quote. Both men have returned several times to the clearing near Dismal Creek, where they almost lost their lives. In 2009, they filmed an hour-long special with Dateline there, which included taking part in a full-blown reenactment of the crime. To this day, Dismal Creek and the woods that surround it remain one of the men's favorite fishing and hiking spots. After Scott and Shawn's story was publicized and everyone learned that Randall Lee Smith was responsible for trying to kill them, Robert Mountford and Susan Ramsey's families were contacted by newspaper reporters,
50:41 Speaker 00 and they reacted not with disbelief, but almost validation.
50:46 Speaker 00 Referring to Randali Smith, Jenny Ramsey told Richmond Times Dispatch reporter Rex Bowman, "It doesn't sound like he should have ever been let out of prison. We fought and fought against his parole, but in the end, they had to parole him." That same article explained the only reason Randall was released early in 1996 was basically due to a technicality. You see, in 1994, so two years before he got paroled, Virginia's governor had abolished the state's parole system. But because Randall had killed Robert and Susan in 1981, he was afforded the opportunity of early release. I guess the parole abolishment
51:27 Speaker 00 only applied to offenders who'd committed crimes after 1994, not before. Even more unnerving to me is the fact that where Randall tried to kill Sean and Scott is only about two miles away from the Wapati Shelter. So to say that he literally returned to the same hunting ground is 100% accurate. Despite the fact that there were two law enforcement investigations into his crimes, no one has ever been able to determine why he did what he did. It remains the one nagging unanswered question in this whole story. According to Dateline's reporting on this case, after he was caught and subsequently
52:08 Speaker 00 died in custody, authorities were able to locate a stash of things he'd collected in the woods. Among those items were a pair of sunglasses that belonged to Scott, meat cleavers, at least 20 knives, several drawings and papers with what have been described as prayers on them. Some of those writings were described by police as "super bizarre", and police said they aligned with the Wicca religion, which is rooted in worshiping nature. Whether or not that had any bearing on why Randall did what he did, we'll probably never know. What I do know is that Scott and Sean are incredibly lucky men. And Robert and Susan should be remembered as the seemingly wonderful and caring people they were, not just murder victims.
52:54 Speaker 00 I mentioned earlier just how much these young people had given to this world in their short lives, and it's heartbreaking to think about how much more they could have done if not for what befell them. I found a touching tribute to Susan on the website for Sims Family Cemetery that, by all accounts, appears to be something one of her family members wrote. And I think it's something all of you should read for yourselves, so I'll link out to it in the show notes and blog post. But it discusses what a fun, lively, and caring person she was: a homecoming queen, talented musician and singer, jokester, counselor, sister, and friend. The last few lines of the tribute state, quote, "Susu was taken from us far too early,
53:39 Speaker 00 even as she was just blossoming into full womanhood. In her time on this earth, however, she touched so many lives and gladdened so many hearts. It is no coincidence that she died while in the act of helping people. It's what she did. She was, as her epitaph proclaims, a ray of sunshine." End quote. Park Predators is an AudioChuck production. You can view a list of all this source material for this episode on our website, parkpredators.com. And you can also follow Park Predators on Instagram, @parkpredators. So, what do you think, Chuck?
54:24 Speaker 00 Do you approve? One day last year, detectives knocked on the door of a multimillion-dollar mansion in Los Angeles County. Inside, they found a strange scene: a dining area converted into classrooms with children and toddlers seated at rows of desks. The couple that lived there had 21 kids.
54:50 Speaker 03 It's a house that looks like a castle, but it's under investigation for being a possible factory, a baby factory.
54:57 Speaker 00 Where had these children come from? Almost all of them were born through surrogates. But those surrogates had been deceived.
55:05 Speaker 04 Me and my coworker, we named her the surrogate pimp. That's the one time that we called the cops, because she was... Screaming and then he pulled out a gun. I started crying. I was like, what the heck did I just get myself into?
55:18 Speaker 05 I'm Ava Kaufman. The Journey is a new series from In the Dark and The New Yorker. Find it now in the In the Dark feed, wherever you get your podcasts.
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