The Stars

In October 2003 a young couple ventures into the desert north of Phoenix to go camping but never returns. When the worst is discovered, a years-long hunt for their killer or killers begins.

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  Hi, park enthusiasts. It's Delia. If you listen to Park Predators, you already know that sometimes the most beautiful places can hide the darkest secrets. But what happens when the danger isn't miles from civilization? It's in your community, and sometimes even in your own backyard. On Crime Junkie, hosts Ashley and Britt dive into real cases every week, from missing persons to unsolved murders, breaking down what we know, what we don't, and the details that still don't sit right. If you care about the stories behind the headlines and the victims at the center of them, you'll want to check out Crime Junkie. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:40Speaker 00

  Hi, park enthusiasts. I'm your host, Delia D'Ambra, and the case I'm going to tell you about today takes place in an isolated recreation space in central Arizona called Bumblebee Road. According to the website azoffroad.net, there are more than 105 off-road trails in Arizona that wind between abandoned mining sites, historic monuments, and desolate swaths of desert. The jurisdiction this case is in is Yavapai County, which is an area I've reported before about in the previous two-part episode of Park Predators titled "The Afterlife: Part One and Two." When Arizona became a formal territory in 1863, there were four original counties, and Yavapai was one of them.

• 1:23Speaker 00

  In the years since, other counties have been established in the original Yavapai County boundary. According to the county's website, the Yavapai Native American word, "yavapai," means "people of the sun." However, the case I'm going to dive into today did not happen with the benefit of sunlight. It was a crime that took place by the cover of night, and to this day is a mystery whose perpetrator remains unidentified. The Yavapai County Sheriff's Office, which is the agency in charge of this case, has a dedicated team of detectives and cold case volunteers who specifically focus on crimes like this. And I believe, based on that unit's track record, which I explored in "The Afterlife:

• 2:04Speaker 00

  Part One and Two," it's only a matter of time before they could solve this double homicide as well. This is Park Predators.

• 2:54Speaker 00

  Around 3:30 PM on Sunday, October 19th, friends of 20-year-old Brandon Rumbaugh and 19-year-old Lisa Guerrero were walking by a dirt turnaround about two miles off Interstate 17 in rural Yavapai County, Arizona, when they spotted exactly what they'd been desperately wanting to find: a white 2004 Ford F-150 pickup truck, which was the same color, make, and model that Lisa's mother, Paula Guerrero, owned. When the friends approached the truck, they peered inside the bed and saw both Brandon and Lisa tucked into their sleeping bags. At first glance, the couple appeared to be sleeping, but a closer examination revealed something truly disturbing: they were both deceased.

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  Initial coverage by the Arizona Republic explained that when Yavapai County Sheriff's detectives arrived on scene, they weren't able to tell right away exactly how the couple had died. There were no obvious signs of trauma. However, the sheriff's office later walked back that statement when a spokeswoman for the agency clarified that there were signs of physical trauma initially observed on the victims. But as far as what those traumatic injuries were, the sheriff's office didn't immediately clarify. The following day, Monday, October 20th, the Yavapai County Medical Examiner's Office concluded Brandon and Lisa's autopsies. And the day after that, authorities announced at a news conference that both victims had died from multiple gunshot wounds to the head, apparently inflicted while they'd been asleep.

• 4:24Speaker 00

  Neither of them had drugs or alcohol in their system, and there were no indications that a robbery or sexual assault had taken place. So from the start of the investigation, the sheriff's office had very few leads to follow. They knew they were dealing with a double homicide that had taken place sometime Friday night or Saturday morning. But other than that, clues pointing to a particular suspect or suspects were slim. For example, investigators hadn't found any shell casings or tire tracks at the crime scene, and initial observations also ruled out a murder-suicide situation. Now, despite a seeming lack of physical evidence, what authorities did have was a fairly detailed timeline of the couple's last movements and communications.

• 5:08Speaker 00

  When they'd left to go camping on Friday evening, Brandon and Lisa told their friends and family members that the plan was to borrow Paula's truck and drive about an hour north of Phoenix to go camping off Interstate 17. During their drive, Lisa had spoken with her mom because Paula had called to check in and see how things were going. During that conversation, Paula said everything seemed normal, and Lisa explained that she and Brandon were still on their way to the spot they wanted to go camping. The geographic location they'd set their sights on was an area known as Bumblebee, and it's actually where the couple had gone on their first date one year earlier. Their original plan for celebrating their one-year dating anniversary was to go to Disneyland,

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  but the price tag for that excursion ended up being more than they wanted to pay. So they'd settled for doing something more low-key and sentimental. Lisa's mother, Paula, told reporter Emily Bitner that the pair was looking forward to parking her pickup truck off Bumblebee Road and spending time together outdoors and stargazing before eventually drifting off to sleep. Lisa had told her mom that her and Brandon would return Paula's pickup by Saturday morning because Brandon was actually scheduled to work as a personal trainer at a gym in the nearby city of Mesa that day. When Lisa and Brandon were overdue on Saturday, Paula thought it was strange because she knew her daughter well enough to know that Lisa would have called if her and Brandon were running late. I mean, after all, they had used Paula's truck to go camping,

• 6:33Speaker 00

  and she told reporter Emily Bittner that it would have been out of character for Lisa to stay another night in the desert without at least calling her mom first. Initially, Paula wasn't even sure if she even wanted to let the couple use her truck because she knew it needed an oil change, and Lisa had never really gone camping overnight in the desert before. But eventually, she relented and told them they could take it. When the pair didn't return and time kept ticking by, Paula said that she felt a sense of dread wash over her. She later told KPNX reporter Rachel Cole that it was about 9 o'clock in the morning on Saturday when she checked her watch and suddenly began crying. Her son, who was with her at the time, asked her why she was so upset, and Paula told him she just knew in her heart something was terribly wrong.

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  After that, she contacted the Mesa Police Department and then called Brandon's father, Rob Rumbaugh, and a few of the couple's close friends. When Saturday afternoon turned into evening and Brandon was a no-show, no-call at work, all the red flags were up at that point, and their families had officially reported them missing. According to Paula, loved ones could not get any immediate help from park rangers or anyone in a position of authority to organize a formal search. So they just went out on their own that Saturday to look for Brandon and Lisa. The group checked several roads and paths in the desert and the general vicinity where the couple said they were going to be, but no one found them or Paula's truck. According to Brian Wells's reporting for the East Valley Tribune,

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  on Sunday morning, Brandon's father checked his son's bank account activity and didn't see any recent transactions, which seemed to be another indication that something was amiss. Multiple calls to the couple's cell phones were never able to get through because every time someone dialed Brandon or Lisa's numbers, a no-service message would play, indicating that wherever their devices were, they were not in an area with good cellphone reception. It wasn't until the murders were discovered that Lisa and Brandon's absence and all these other things made sense.

• 8:35Speaker 00

  It was difficult for people who knew the young couple to think of anyone who would want to harm them. Paula told the press that neither of the victims had enemies, and Brandon's mother, Desiree, further suggested in comments she made that whatever happened to them seemed to be a random act of violence. That theory, as frightening as it was, was a scenario law enforcement considered. A lieutenant for the sheriff's office told the press, quote, "Do we believe that this was a random act and that there's a crazy person running around? Not necessarily. Can we rule it out? Not necessarily." End quote. Still, there was no question that the slangs rattled some people who lived in the greater Phoenix and Scottsdale areas. Recreationalists were concerned about their safety, and some emphasized that they would

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  be extra sure to arm themselves in the outdoors in light of what had happened. One local business owner who ran a Trading Post store told reporter Carol Sowers that "Over the years, more and more people began flocking to the desert north of Phoenix to hike, off-road, and camp, and that had drawn unwanted incidents of crime, but nothing is serious as a double murder." Meanwhile, detectives emphasized that in order to properly assess the safety risk for the area, they needed to speak with the couple's friends and acquaintances, or any potential witnesses who might have been off-roading or camping in the Bumblebee area on Friday night and Saturday morning. A lieutenant for the sheriff's office stated in part, quote, "Because this is such a popular

• 10:01Speaker 00

  weekend area and so many come here, we want the public's help if they were up here camping and saw anything at all." End quote. One challenge with finding critical witnesses, though, was the fact that there were so many potential witnesses to weed through. Where Lisa and Brandon had gone camping was considered an "undesignated campsite" in a landscape that saw a considerable uptick in visitors during the fall and winter months.

• 10:27Speaker 00

  Like the lieutenant for the sheriff's office stated, the weekend the crime occurred was the time when lots of folks visited the desert. One police source even estimated there were close to 1,000 visitors in the area when the slayings happened. It was common for drivers to just pull off Interstate 17 onto another road and stay overnight. However, that wasn't a practice that public safety officials encouraged. It still happened all the same. Typically, designated campgrounds or rest areas were viewed as safer because they had better lighting and were places that law enforcement officers regularly patrolled. An undesignated campsite, on the other hand, did not have those kinds of crime deterrents. Still, the sheriff's office hoped that perhaps someone who was passing by or staying

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  in the Bumblebee area near where the victims were had noticed something that could help authorities. And as luck would have it, there were a handful of folks. Emily Bittner reported for The Arizona Republic that authorities interviewed several visitors who'd been within 100 yards of Lisa and Brandon's truck over the weekend. And one witness told authorities they'd spotted the couple's vehicle parked in the desert where it was found sometime Saturday afternoon, which I imagine only further confirmed for investigators that Brandon and Lisa had been killed before then. Like I mentioned earlier, the pair had been dating for a year, and about two months before their deaths, Brandon had moved into Lisa's apartment in Scottsdale, which was less than an hour and a half away from the area near Bumblebee Road where they were

• 11:55Speaker 00

  found. They were both attending college at the time of their murders and held jobs in the area. Lisa worked as a secretary and Brandon was a personal trainer. As they'd gotten more serious in their relationship, they'd talked about marriage, but wanted to wait until they both finished their schooling. For a brief moment when the pair was first missing, Brandon's parents wondered if maybe their son and Lisa had just decided to travel to Las Vegas and elope, but sadly, as they quickly found out, that was not the case. From everything I read about the pair, they were both described as well-liked and very loved by their families. One of Lisa's coworkers told The Arizona Republic that she was the type of person who could walk into their office and make everyone's day brighter. Brandon's mom shared with the same newspaper

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  that her son was goofy, full of joy, and a gifted dancer who loved to perform. He previously served in the Marine Reserves and dreamed of one day opening his own gym. His dad, Rob, said that he was really looking forward to seeing his son spread his wings in life, but in light of what had happened, that would never come to fruition.

• 13:00Speaker 00

  The Saturday after the murders, Lisa's friends and colleagues held a car wash in Mesa to raise money for her funeral expenses. Her employer provided the supplies for the event, and more than 300 drivers came to have their vehicles washed or to donate money to the cause. That evening, Brandon's loved ones held his funeral service in the chapel of a local Scottsdale church. The following Monday, October 27, Lisa's loved ones laid her to rest at a Catholic cemetery in Mesa. Around that same time, authorities released the name of a Phoenix man who they wanted to speak with as part of the investigation. This guy was 34 years old and was described as driving a black Ford F-150 pickup truck with a camper shell and Arizona license plate on the back. News coverage at the time

• 13:44Speaker 00

  identified this man by his first and last name. The sheriff's office emphasized he was considered an investigative lead, but because he was never formally declared a person of interest or suspect in this case, I'm only going to refer to him by his first name, Michael. There isn't a ton of info in the available source material about him or how he came on authorities' radar, but one could assume a witness provided his name and vehicle information. However, I don't know that for sure. According to what a lieutenant for the sheriff's office told reporter Brian Wells, Michael was believed to have been in the area of the crime scene late Friday night or early Saturday morning. But fairly quickly after Michael's name was printed in area newspapers, he came forward and willingly spoke with investigators.

• 14:29Speaker 00

  It seems that after that conversation, authorities essentially ruled him out as being involved. And a spokeswoman for the sheriff's office told the press that he was being cooperative. In early November, authorities announced that Yavapai County's Silent Witness Program was offering an up to $10,000 reward for information. Coverage at the time indicates that the money was pulled together by Lisa and Brandon's family members, as well as other donors in the community. A flyer advertising those funds featured the couple's photos, as well as a photo of Paula's white pickup truck. Not long after that development, a few weeks into the investigation, law enforcement released information that piqued the press's interest. It was a new detail that seemed to suggest the crime might have been related to an incident

• 15:14Speaker 00

  a day or so before the couple ever left to go camping. Coverage by the Arizona Republic and East Valley Tribune states that sometime during the first few weeks of the investigation, authorities learned an argument had taken place in the doorway of the young couple's apartment, between an unknown man and a young man who was seemingly Brandon. This apparently occurred about a night or two before Brandon and Lisa left for their trip. The unknown guy who had this alleged spat with Brandon was described as white, tall, had a husky build, and was about 40 years old. A spokeswoman for the sheriff's office told the press that detectives really wanted to speak with this man, but without his name, they were unable to track him down.

• 15:57Speaker 00

  It's unclear, though, if this lead ever materialized into anything, because after November 2003, it's not really mentioned again. What I can tell you, though, is that in early January 2004, more than two months into the investigation, the case was languishing, and Lisa and Brandon's families were growing a bit frustrated. Paula told reporter Byron Wells that she was concerned the case would go cold due to the lack of leads and updates. At that time, though, the sheriff's office maintained that it was as dedicated as ever to solving the crime. Two detectives were assigned to the case, and a spokeswoman for the agency emphasized that the double homicide was still very much an active investigation.

• 16:38Speaker 00

  However, in May, just a few months after providing that response, the sheriff's office found themselves in charge of yet another double homicide at a rural campsite in their jurisdiction.

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• 18:51Speaker 00

  According to coverage in the Arizona Republic, on Monday, May 3, 2004, U.S. Forest Service employees stumbled upon two men dead from gunshot wounds at a campsite in an area about one hour west of where Lisa and Brandon had been discovered. Those two victims were quickly identified as 65-year-old William Raymond Ray Midaw and 74-year-old Omer Lee Casey. William, who seemed most often to go by the nickname Ray, so that's what I'll refer to him as from here on out, lived in Yuma, Arizona. He and Omer, who resided in Summerton, were old friends who'd gone camping at a popular spot in the desert a few miles north of Lake Pleasant. Ray was a longtime hunter and sportsman who had a lot of experience

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  in Arizona's mountains and deserts. He was a stroke survivor, devoted Christian, former welder, grandfather and husband, who had recently celebrated 46 years of marriage with his wife. Omer was also a grandfather, avid outdoorsman and husband who'd been married to his wife for 56 years. He was a skilled machinist who'd formerly worked in the seed harvesting industry and actually held two patents for devices that improved harvesting seed crops. Their story is one that I hope to cover in more detail in a future episode, but for now, I'll summarize the high points to stay on track. Within a day of the men's bodies being found, the sheriff's office identified a 21-year-old man from Phoenix named Rusty Rankin as the prime suspect for their murders.

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  Rusty's father was a veteran police officer for the Phoenix Police Department, who, according to an article by the Arizona Republic, had realized his service weapon was missing the morning after Ray and Omer were found. Initial information obtained by homicide detectives suggested that Rusty had been camping near Ray and Omer around the time of the crime, and his vehicle had also been discovered not far from their bodies. By the night of May 4, authorities had tracked Rusty to a motel in Colorado Springs, Colorado, where they were confident he was hiding out. A tense standoff ensued, and later that night, Rusty eventually agreed to surrender, but shortly before cooperating, decided to die by suicide.

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  When investigators got into his motel room, they found four handguns, but initially weren't sure if any of those firearms were related to Ray and Omer's murders. Further ballistics testing had to be done to determine if Rusty's father's service weapon was the gun used in the killings. But it's unclear from the available source material if that was ever established. What is clear, though, is that Rusty's suicide essentially brought Ray and Omer's murder investigation to an end. However, no one could ignore the fact that the circumstances of the crime were strikingly similar to what had happened to Lisa and Brandon nearly seven months earlier. But the Yavapai County Sheriff's Office was very quick to stamp out any suggestion that the cases were connected.

• 21:46Speaker 00

  Detectives stated to the press that they did not believe the crimes were linked. And really, it seemed like that was that, because several more months passed before any kind of update came in with regards to Lisa and Brandon's case. Toni Laxson reported for the East Valley Tribune that in mid-August 2004, 10 months after the couple's murders, law enforcement investigators and representatives from the Silent Witness Program released a videotaped reenactment of the crime in hopes of enticing additional witnesses to come forward. A sergeant with the sheriff's office told the press that detectives suspected there were still some witnesses out there who had yet to provide information to authorities.

• 22:28Speaker 00

  This sergeant wasn't sure why those witnesses had not come forward yet, and waiting for answers was painstaking for the victims' families during this time. Paula, Lisa's mom, said that she thought about the case every single day, and she hoped that whoever was responsible would be captured. Her hopes were seemingly raised right after that, when information about another young couple slain at random while camping in Northern California made national news.

• 22:54Speaker 00

  Those victims were Lindsay Kutchall and Jason Allen, whose case I covered in a previous episode of Park Predators titled "The Sand." Because Lindsay and Jason's shooting deaths happened under similar circumstances, investigators working their case initially considered whether their deaths might be linked to whoever had killed Lisa and Brandon. Jason and Lindsay were murdered execution-style while they slept in their sleeping bags on a beach. Lisa and Brandon were killed in an eerily similar manner, but just in a desert environment. No signs of robbery or evidence like shell casings were found at the California crime scene, as was the case in Arizona. But as quickly as investigators in California contacted Yavapai County authorities to compare

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  notes, the lead fizzled. The caliber firearm used in the California case was different than the type of gun that had been used to kill Lisa and Brandon. And ultimately, as you already know, if you listened to my episode about Lindsay and Jason's case, their killer was later caught and identified as Northern California native Sean Gallin. So the double homicides are for sure two totally separate unrelated crimes.

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  When the one-year anniversary of Lisa and Brandon's murders rolled around, it was a benchmark that Paula Guerrero was not looking forward to. She drove out to the spot in the desert where her daughter and Brandon were murdered, but she still had no answers about who had carried out the crime. The $10,000 reward, which turned into $16,000 by mid-December 2004, remained untouched. By that point, law enforcement officials told the press that they'd fielded occasional tips, but none turned out to be fruitful. The story had been covered extensively by local and national media outlets like America's Most Wanted and CNN. But even with all that exposure, leads remained scarce. For several more years, the case got colder and colder.

• 24:47Speaker 00

  During that time, Brandon's mother Desiree poured herself into the practice of yoga, which was something she'd done personally and professionally well before the murders. After the crime, she traveled across the globe, teaching others meditation and yoga, and emphasizing that it was possible to have happiness and enjoyment in life despite tragic circumstances like what had happened to her family. She told the Arizona Republic, quote, "There is so much suffering and scarcity in the world, and there is so much joy and abundance. When faced with loss or pain, there is a tendency toward resignation and a withdrawal from living fully. And I want people to know that there is a healthy way to learn how to accept whatever has happened in the past and embrace your life with gratitude

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  and regain motivation. No one said it was easy, but then, nothing worth having is ever easy," end quote. Years after the crime, on a website she wrote titled "My Story", Desiree discussed the circumstances of how she learned about her son and Lisa's murders. She explained that her father and brothers broke the news when she got off an airplane after returning from a yoga workshop out of the area. A huge fear of hers was that the tragic loss of her son would mire her in sadness for the rest of her life. But she eventually became determined not to live that way. Instead, she worked hard to mentally, emotionally, and physically transform the pain and suffering of the past and truly regain motivation and a sense of peace.

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  In mid-October 2009, a private memorial Facebook page titled "In Memory of Lisa Marie Guerrero" was created. And it became a place where loved ones began leaving posts and notes about Lisa. That page still exists today, though it's a closed group.

• 26:33Speaker 00

  Fast forward several years, and by October 2017, the case had been cold for 14 years. And understandably, Lisa's mother Paula was very frustrated that it seemed her daughter and Brandon's killer had gotten away with the crime. At one point, not long after the murders, Paula had tried to get authorities to release some of Lisa's personal belongings, like maybe her cellphone to them. But they were told by an investigator that the case had to be at least 25 years old or solved before anything that was considered to be evidence could go back to her family. Paula told AZ Central reporter Jason Poehl that it was unfair knowing that the person or people who committed the crime were likely still out in society walking around. Meanwhile, Lisa and Brandon were stolen from their families far too soon.

• 27:18Speaker 00

  That same year, so 2017, Paula and one of Lisa's uncles pleaded to the public to help authorities catch whoever was responsible. They emphasized that they desperately wanted closure and some answers. Paula stated, quote, "Here we are 14 years later. I just hope that this is solved before I go, before I die. I want to know who did it, but it could be that it's not going to happen because Lisa doesn't want me to know who did it," end quote. More than two years later, in December 2019, the case was still no closer to resolution. But the Yavapai County Sheriff's Office did issue an updated media release that had some really interesting and never-before-shared details in it about the crime scene.

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  One day last year, detectives knocked on the door of a multimillion-dollar mansion in Los Angeles County. Inside, they found a strange scene: a dining area converted into classrooms with children and toddlers seated at rows of desks. The couple that lived there had 21 kids.

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  It's a house that looks like a castle, but it's under investigation for being a possible factory, a baby factory.

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  Where had these children come from? Almost all of them were born through surrogates. But those surrogates had been deceived.

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  Me and my coworker, we named her the surrogate pimp.

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  That's the one time that we called the cops because she was screaming. And then he pulled out a gun. I started crying. I was like, what the heck did I just get myself into?

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• 29:44Speaker 00

  According to the sheriff's office, a case for a video camera had been left behind at the crime scene, but the actual camera itself was missing. The media release stated that the video camera was borrowed, and Paula Grayery later clarified to ABC 15 Arizona it was hers. She also said that Lisa's keys were missing from the crime scene. Investigators back in the day had also discovered a broken disposable camera about 100 feet away from the couple's pickup truck. The news release also stated that investigators back in the day had discovered a broken disposable camera about 100 feet away from the couple's pickup truck, and it still had film inside it. Authorities developed that film and realized there were still some clearly discernible

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  photos. One picture was just of Brandon, and the other was just of Lisa, and they'd presumably been taken by one another. In the images, they're each smiling and posing in the bed of the pickup truck with a light-colored and a dark-colored sleeping bag next to them. The foreground of the pictures appear to show that the flash was on when the pictures were taken because both Lisa and Brandon have whitish light concentrated on their faces and clothing. The background of both images is pitch black, which suggests they were in the desert at the time the photos were taken. The sheriff's office stated that the images are likely the last pictures of them alive. Authorities have since stated that they don't think anything untoward or unusual was occurring at the time the pictures were taken.

• 31:14Speaker 00

  I've put the photos in the blog post for this episode, and if you're listening in the Crime Junkie Fan Club app, you should be able to see them too. In addition to those photos, there was another photo on the disposable camera which was mostly overexposed, but in one of the corners, it did show a light fixture in some kind of building. However, investigators at the time could not determine what kind of business or establishment that building was, or what kind of light fixture was in the image. When I first saw this picture, it almost looked like a reflection or something, but there's no doubt a light or a lamp of some kind is in the upper right-hand corner. But the rest of the image is just difficult to interpret because it's so overexposed. You guys take a look for yourselves and let me know what you think in the comments for this episode.

• 31:59Speaker 00

  It's possible the picture was a misfire from when Brandon and Lisa got the camera, or it very well could have been a clue that was somehow connected to the perpetrator. But at the time it was discovered, authorities had no real way of knowing what the overexposed image meant. Despite all this new information feeling really important, though, the announcement about it didn't really seem to move the needle much because several more years passed and during that time, there were no significant updates. On the 19th anniversary of the crime in October 2022, the sheriff's office was still asking the public for tips and information, and things seemed as stagnant as they'd always been. But then, in September 2023, what I would consider to be something of a bombshell came

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  out. A commander for the sheriff's office told ABC 15 Arizona reporter Ashley Paredes that a new detective who'd been working on the case for a few years, as well as some of the volunteers in the agency's code case division, were regularly reviewing evidence in the case and had been double-checking what physical evidence was sent out for further evaluation and forensic testing. At that time, the agency confirmed that one item of evidence retrieved from the crime scene was at a DNA lab being tested, but what that item was has never been publicly revealed. The commander for the sheriff's office, though, did state on record they were in the midst of doing genealogy work to narrow down and identify who the DNA belonged to.

• 33:28Speaker 00

  During his interview, the commander also revealed that at least some evidence in the case suggested Lisa may have woken up when she and Brandon were being attacked, but the agency wasn't 100% sure of that. He also explained during that interview a lot more about the disposable camera that had been found at the crime scene. Turns out, the camera was something the couple had bought at a supermarket on their way to the desert. And the film that was inside it included two photos of Lisa in the bed of the truck, one photo of Brandon, and one photo of the light fixture that was mostly overexposed. The commander stated that they determined the overexposed image had been taken inside a restaurant in the Bumblebee area back in 2003. But presently, that establishment was no longer the same business.

• 34:13Speaker 00

  He also said that the picture was likely a result of the camera being thrown. Now, I don't know if that means one of the victims threw it, accidentally dropped it, someone else tossed it, no clue. I have like a thousand follow-up questions about this overexposed picture, but none that I think the agency could answer. For that same piece by ABC 15, Paula, Lisa's mom, emphasized she would never give up hope that her daughter and Brandon's murders would be solved one day. She referred to Lisa as more than just her daughter. She said she was her best friend, and she had both of those things ripped away from her, literally in the blink of an eye. Sadly, about 14 months after giving that interview to the news station, Paula passed away at the age of 71.

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  Loved ones who crafted her obituary described her life as a celebration of unwavering commitment to those she held dear: perseverance and love. And from everything I read, it's apparent that is all true of Paula. She was one of the main people who consistently spoke publicly about Lisa and Brandon's case. She regularly did interviews with the press, pleaded to the public for information, and maintained contact with investigators. It's obvious to me that she wanted so desperately to see her daughter's killer or killers caught. And it's absolutely heartbreaking that she did not get the chance to experience that before she passed. Today, Brandon and Lisa's murders remain unsolved.

• 35:39Speaker 00

  If you have any information, please contact the Yavapai Silent Witness Program online at yavapaisw.com. That's Y-A-V-A-P-A-I-S-W.com. Or find the link in the show notes. You can also call anonymously at 1-800-932-3232.

• 36:02Speaker 00

  Unfortunately, they're not the only double homicide to mar the central Arizona community. If you've been watching the news, you know that in May 2025, the double shooting deaths of 18-year-old Pandora Schulsrud and 17-year-old Evan Clark were discovered in neighboring Maricopa County. The two teens had been on a camping trip together. About four months later, a 31-year-old man named Thomas Brown was arrested for the crime. At the time of this recording, he's yet to go to trial, but believe me, that's a case I'm going to be keeping a very close eye on. When news of that crime broke, outlets like AZ Central published reports that pointed out the fact that Pandora and Evan's case echoed so many aspects of what had happened to Brandon and Lisa. The only difference

• 36:47Speaker 00

  being, a suspect in the 2025 case was captured fairly quickly, and Lisa and Brandon's perpetrator or perpetrators remain unidentified. In some of the initial coverage about Lisa and Brandon's case, a law enforcement officer with the US Forest Service was interviewed, and he made a statement to the East Valley Tribune that I think is universally important and something we should all take to heart. He said, quote, "When you go camping, you always have to be aware of your surroundings and who is around you. When you go camping, you need to think safety. Never take things for granted, because you're out there, underneath the stars." End quote.

• 37:31Speaker 00

  Park Predators is an AudioChuck production. You can view a list of all the source material for this episode on our website, parkpredators.com. And you can also follow Park Predators on Instagram, @parkpredators. I think Chuck would approve.

• 37:56Speaker 00

  In the dark, even the most familiar trail can feel like it leads somewhere else. Every rustle becomes a warning, every shadow, a doorway. In Full Body Chills, those doorways open into worlds pulled straight from your nightmares. This spooky season classic returns with chillingly tales, immersive sound, and no promise that you'll find your way back. So step off the familiar path if you dare. Listen to new episodes of Full Body Chills every week, wherever you get your podcasts.