Pod Insights Panic World The no fap movement and why the boys aren't all right About this episode If you’ve spent any amount of time online in November, unfortunately you’ve heard of “No Fap,” a movement started over a decade ago by a subsection of very aggressive men who’ve created a pseudo-religion around the concept that all problems can be solved if you simply stop masturbating. Jeff & Kitty of the Free Country USA podcast join us to talk about the thousands-year-old history of anti-masturbation efforts and why it’s found such prominence for a certain kind of guy on the internet.
Our guests Jeff & Kitty Kimz host Free Country USA, a podcast you can find on YouTube @freecountrypod, Instagram @freecountrypodusa, and everywhere else you listen or watch pods.
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Transcript 14,316 words · 12 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
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0:30 Ryan Broderick? All right, to kick things off, I'd love to ask both of you, you know, when was the last time you encountered like a really aggressive guy in real life? Or online, I suppose, like personally encountered like a really aggressive guy?
0:44 Speaker 02 A couple of weeks ago at the liquor store. What about you?
0:48 Speaker 03 Wait, what happened in the liquor store?
0:51 Speaker 02 I was like, okay, so I have like one of those like Ridge wallets. So I was like at the liquor store and there's this guy behind me. I'm like pulling out the card from the wallet and I kind of hand it to him like this. And the guy behind me was like, "Why are you doing this, bro?" Because it was like, yeah, I was handing the card to him in like a gay way. And he started like grabbing his dick and just being pretty aggressive towards me, but...
1:14 Ryan Broderick? Wow, that's really aggressive.
1:16 Speaker 02 Yeah, it was, but you know, I just told him to fuck off and he listened, so it's not so bad.
1:21 Ryan Broderick? That's crazy.
1:23 Speaker 02 Yeah. What about you?
1:25 Speaker 03 I don't think I've encountered an aggressive guy in real life since like high school. Obviously, I have aggressive men in my DMs giving me death threats every single day, but um...
1:33 Ryan Broderick? Sure.
1:34 Speaker 03 In real life, like I was just like, I don't know, that doesn't happen to me.
1:56 Ryan Broderick? The reason I ask is because we're going to be talking about a subsection of very aggressive men who have sort of created a pseudo-religion
2:04 Ryan Broderick? to hopefully deal with their aggression. And I want to do an disclaimer here for our listeners who are sick of us... On this show talking about gooning, we're gonna be talking about that and a whole bunch more connected to that world today. Cause today, we're gonna be talking about no fat. The idea that men can cure all their problems if they just stop masturbating. We're gonna talk about how it's spread, how it's weaponized, how its tentacles have wriggled their way into all kinds of different parts of society and our politics. I also want to apologize to Courier, our partner on this show. You guys gotta deal with this. So this is what you signed up for when you, when you wanted to work with us. So here we go. Um, so this is Panic World, a show about how the internet warps our minds, our culture, and eventually
2:46 Ryan Broderick? reality. A note for our listeners. Uh, this episode obviously contains sexual themes and later briefly touches on suicide. Sounds like a real party. Joining me as all, uh, as always is Grant Irving, who will sometimes come out of his, uh, no fat cage and be allowed to ask a question to our guests. Uh, and our guests today are the hosts of the Free Country Podcast. Hello fellow patriots, Kitty and Jeff. Welcome to the show.
3:12 Speaker 02 Thank you very much.
3:13 Speaker 03 Thank you. Appreciate it. It makes so much sense that you would have us on this particular episode. Totally get it.
3:19 Speaker 02 Yeah.
3:20 Ryan Broderick? I'm really glad you said that because I wanted to clear the air, uh, and address the fact that you are related to each other.
3:29 Ryan Broderick? So I wanted to just get that one right out of the way real quick. That, uh, is I suppose a little weird to have siblings on to talk about masturbating or not masturbating, but, uh, I, I take it this is, this is not, you know, out of your guys' wheelhouse. To talk about, to talk about.
3:46 Speaker 02 Yeah. Um, you know, we, we have like a pretty like open and honest like dialogues between each other. So it's all good.
3:53 Ryan Broderick? Yeah. Uh, can you, can you update our listeners, you know, maybe with, with, with a story about how, how you guys got to this kind of relationship with each other, you know, what, uh, there's like no easy way to ask this.
4:07 Speaker 03 We, it's not insane. We don't fap with each other. I just, I need to, I need to just like, no, yeah, no one.
4:16 Speaker 02 And thank you for knowing that we're siblings. Cause we get a lot of like,
4:18 Ryan Broderick? No, a lot of people don't know that.
4:19 Speaker 02 People being like, when are they gonna start dating? Like in the adolescence, we started smoking weed together and kind of just formed.
4:27 Speaker 03 Weed brought us together.
4:28 Speaker 02 Weed, yeah.
4:29 Ryan Broderick? Okay, interesting. I've never smoked weed with my sister. I wonder how that would affect our relationship.
4:33 Speaker 02 Do you have a good relationship with her?
4:34 Speaker 03 I highly recommend it.
4:35 Ryan Broderick? I mean, it's fine. It's functional. You know, like, we get along when we're together, but like, we're, you know, we're not close. But maybe if we were smoking weed together, we'd be closer.
4:43 Speaker 02 Just hit the grab bong and tear down the threshold and maybe you'll be closer.
4:47 Speaker 03 Yeah, bringing the grab bong to the pool and like getting in trouble like by like pool security like that really helped. That was a bonding moment.
4:54 Ryan Broderick? Are you turning the pool into a grab bong? Is it like a two liter that's cut in half?
4:57 Speaker 03 Yeah, two liter and then you use the pool water for the grab bong.
5:00 Speaker 02 Yeah.
5:01 Ryan Broderick? Okay. Uh, well, today we're gonna be talking about another way of, uh, elevating your consciousness, which is, uh, giving up masturbating. And we're gonna be talking about it because it is this thing that has become weirdly politically powerful, particularly on the right. Do you guys like have any sense of the, the place that no fat kind of has, uh, in the conservative movement in America right now? Like, have you come across like weird right wing no fat guys?
5:28 Speaker 03 Not at all, actually.
5:30 Ryan Broderick? Okay, okay. Well, it hasn't always been a conservative thing. Human beings have always been really strange about masturbating. In fact, like when we, we like try to make a timeline of like how things spread and our timeline today starts in 1,100 BCE.
5:44 Speaker 03 Oh, cool.
5:45 Ryan Broderick? Uh, where, yeah, the Babylonians, the Babylonians believed that if a guy finished in a woman, it would lead to an early death, which I do think is true actually, uh, because he was giving away his life force. And this actually is something that comes up in a lot of no fat spaces, this idea that it's even like kinda quoted in like Doctor Strangelove. The idea that like your essence, your life force is what you're giving out.
6:09 Speaker 03 So you had to like give away some of your life force in order to have a child? It was like a, like how they viewed it?
6:15 Ryan Broderick? Exactly, yeah. Like equivalent exchange kinda thing. And this is like not that outlandish, I swear, to connect these things because in the Los Angeles Review of Books, there's this great feature two years ago titled "No Fap: A Cultural History of Anti-Masturbation", and that, and they start all the way back, uh, with the Hebrew Bible, the story of Onan who spills his seed on the ground rather than impregnating somebody. God gets pissed and he kills him and then... All of masturbating is condemned for for all the rest of us. Rousseau, a philosopher, you know, during the French Revolution, believed that masturbation was mental rape and self enslavement. Interesting. It just goes on and on. Here's a quote from the the the no fap cultural history.
6:53 Ryan Broderick? Among the scandalous charges of treason and decadence brought against Marie Antoinette by the Revolutionary Tribunal was that she had sexually abused her son by teaching him to masturbate. Allegedly through this type of incest, Antoinette had depleted his moral and physical health and revealed her truth as a perverse woman under all the pretty dresses and colognes that once hid the villainy from view. There's always been this kind of like radical, weird reactionary view of sexuality, but our our timeline in earnest starts in 1992 with the Seinfeld episode, The Contest. Have you guys seen this?
7:24 Speaker 02 Uh, no, I haven't seen that one.
7:26 Speaker 03 I actually, I brought up that we were doing this, uh, uh, topic with our dad. And he brought up that specific episode of Seinfeld.
7:37 Ryan Broderick? Grant, we have to start getting older, guests. I can't keep doing this. I can't keep living like this.
7:42 Speaker 03 I watched, I binge watched Seinfeld when I was a kid. I was, I kind of remember that episode and they would be like, they would be like, they would come to each other and be like, not C O M E and um, be like, yo, I'm master of my domain. Yeah, like, still got this shit on lock, like, um, I remember.
7:56 Ryan Broderick? And and I would say that episode is like a good moment of like this idea entering the pop cultural consciousness. And then, uh, about 10 years later or so in 2009 in September is the launch of No Fap September, which is, uh,
8:12 Speaker 02 Not, no, not November?
8:14 Ryan Broderick? It it did not start as No Nut November. That is, it started as No Fap September. Grant, can you pull up the image, please?
8:21 Speaker 04 This was the first calendar we could find of them trying to make this a contest. So you
8:27 Ryan Broderick? And just for our audio listeners, there, uh, you can tell this was the mid 2000s because there's a bunch of really rough memes stacked on here. One of Jean-Luc Picard from Star Trek, like trying not to fap and I suppose we should explain right away. Like, do you guys know that the the origin of the word fap?
8:45 Speaker 02 Uh, yeah, it's like the sound.
8:48 Ryan Broderick? It's an onomatopoeia from like Japanese comic books or manga, right? So like, like this is where, this is the, the primordial soup that this stuff comes from. Uh, and then finally in 2009, uh, it starts to spread on message boards. There's one post we have here. They're announcing like the challenge and there's a bunch of slurs in here that I'm not going to read out loud. Basically they're like, are you ready to feel the urge to surge? Winings include self-pride, less urge to masturbate, learning more about girls/boys, discipline, finding yourself more focused, a cookie, and last but not least, $5 via PayPal. And then one user wrote, who needs self-pride when you can fap? So, so thi- this is, this is the world that this idea comes from, like really weird message board people.
9:31 Speaker 02 I mean, this is the tea that I was steeped in, dude. Like I remember all this stuff vividly, like the guy holding his hand meme, the idea of fapping, no fapping, like talking about no Nut November on 4chan and like what it meant to you like spiritually. You know, I remember all this like vividly growing up, so. You know, I was on 4chan and Tumblr a lot and, and during those years.
9:54 Ryan Broderick? Sure, sure. A perfect way to completely ruin your brain as a teenager. The two best websites.
9:59 Speaker 02 Yeah, the two best.
10:01 Ryan Broderick? The only two websites.
10:06 Ryan Broderick? Just a quick heads up, dear listener. We're gonna be throwing around a lot of common misconceptions. So if you're getting all agitated, uh, at your posting station, listening, just keep listening, okay? Cause we're gonna knock down a lot of this stuff, but we want to lay it all out first. Back to the episode.
10:26 Ryan Broderick? By, by 2009, now it's also an Urban Dictionary, uh, listing, so I'll read this for you. Though many believe that there is no reward for completing this challenge, others have faith in its many rewards it can offer, especially for the ones who do not have a GF or girlfriend. They will build up the courage to finally ask the pretty girl out. Another reward can be for the men that masturbate regularly. They can sometimes never climax when they do have sex with a woman. Others say that the only negative spinoff that comes from No Fap September is that the chances of having wet dreams immensely, immensely increase. Best reward of all is not feeling nasty after you've just fapped. Anything here that, that sticks out to you guys?
11:07 Speaker 03 The feeling nasty afterwards, I, I have heard that that's like a hormonal thing that like, that testosterone havers deal with like mentally. Since going on estrogen, it's like different. Some people call it post nut clarity.
11:25 Speaker 02 Yeah, it seems like the after when girls come, they feel beautiful. And when guys come, they kind of want to kill themselves.
11:31 Ryan Broderick? Yeah, no, that sounds right. Yeah, that's totally fine. Yeah. Huh, I won't, I didn't realize that was a testosterone thing. That's interesting.
11:37 Speaker 03 Yeah, because since transitioning, like, I don't, I don't really deal with that anymore.
11:43 Ryan Broderick? That's fascinating. Um, I, I, I also feel like this is very much based in this kind of very specific kind of 2000s gutter culture online where you're finally getting like, people are finally getting access to internet pornography and they really don't know how to talk about it or deal with it or think about it. And like, especially these sort of more niche communities already had a self loathing angle to them. And so by the 2000s, like, they really hate themselves and it becomes like this real race to the bottom that eventually swallows the entire American political establishment. Um, but before that, in 2011, we got a shift in branding. Once again, it goes from no fat September to no fat June. Which is interesting.
12:23 Speaker 02 Yeah, it's like November's right there. Um.
12:26 Ryan Broderick? The alliteration is right there. I agree.
12:28 Speaker 04 I couldn't fit this in exactly perfectly. They're, they're going to, they try this three times in 2011. They finally land on no nut November.
12:39 Speaker 02 Yeah, that's the one I remember growing up. Yeah.
12:41 Ryan Broderick? Yeah.
12:42 Speaker 03 It's because they had enough mental clarity to use the alliteration.
12:45 Ryan Broderick? Right. Yeah, exactly. That's exactly it. So in 2011, we get no fat June and it was, uh, it was popularized by the, uh, bodybuilding.com forum, if you guys are familiar.
12:57 Speaker 02 Oh, no shit.
12:58 Ryan Broderick? Yeah.
13:00 Speaker 02 This is like, you're putting together so many puzzle pieces for me right now. This is delightful.
13:04 Ryan Broderick? So there was like a connection between these spaces, which I do think is interesting. Like you have the muscle men on bodybuilding.com, but they are in some way communicating with the edgelords on 4chan and on Reddit and stuff. And so the bodybuilding.com forum has an FAQ about no Fab June and it reads, "Why are we doing this? To work on self-control. The sexual urge is one of the most primary instincts in humans. So if you can conquer this, you truly are master of your domain. To become more social and get a girlfriend is the next one. And then the last one, testosterone boost. I've read that when you don't Fab, your testosterone levels rise slowly until day 10, when the levels peak and start to drop. This might just be bro-science." Which is quite a
13:43 Speaker 03 Are there any like studies to back that up like whatsoever?
13:47 Ryan Broderick? Uh, I have not, I mean, I would assume like Catholic priests are like the strongest men on earth.
13:54 Speaker 04 I didn't include it. There's a lot of disproven studies, but like, uh, there's also just a lot of, and like, I grew up with this with like MMA people and like, and lifters. It's very close to eating disorder culture where they get like, they're like, "I would edge and then I'd go to the gym and I, and I would be able to PR." Lots of anecdotal research where they're like, "It was miserable. I learned nothing. I didn't gain anything from this." But it's like, was always spreading in these sort of bro-y, Joe, like, well, I'll be Joe Roke.
14:26 Speaker 02 I don't think it can be overstated how much modern internet culture has been influenced by bodybuilders and racist femboys from 4chan like 15 years
14:35 Ryan Broderick? Yeah. I would say like a hundred percent of it almost. Um, and like, what I, what I think is like also important to point out here is like, it's really hard, I think, to get a sense of age demographics online, but, but based on what we can see, like, the internet was full of a lot of teenage boys in America in the 2000s. And I do think that there's like a certain kind of logic, a lazy logic to teenage boys or they're like, "This thing that I can't stop doing and I feel really bad about, like, if I just stop it, I'll fix all my problems." And then you just see how each community like analyzes that like through their own prism. So the bodybuilders are like, "I'm gonna get really strong and masculine." They're like self-loathing nerds on 4chan. Like I'm finally gonna be able to leave my room. It's a lot of that.
15:18 Speaker 02 There's something to be said about like when if if you have like a bad relationship with masturbation pornography and you're able to like get a handle on it like that is probably gonna boost your confidence to like a certain extent.
15:28 Speaker 03 I think it's like the similar to like any form of addiction like if it's something like you can't stop doing it or doing all the time. It's like all you're thinking about like, yeah, you should probably like try to not do it as much or like maybe like try to like chill on it. But I feel like, I don't know, it just comes across as like any other addiction, something I was addicted to for a while personally. When I was addicted to Adderall, like this, the, the, the amphetamine induced, uh, hypersexual psychosis. That shit's real. That shit's real as fuck. And I was gooning, gooning nonstop.
15:58 Ryan Broderick? What was crazy? What was it? I've heard, I've heard it called stimfapping.
16:02 Speaker 02 Stimfapping.
16:04 Speaker 03 I have not heard that one.
16:05 Ryan Broderick? Yeah. I'm an avid reader of the r-meth subreddit, which I highly recommend for people. And the guys on there.
16:15 Speaker 02 Yeah, go ahead. Sorry.
16:16 Ryan Broderick? The guys on there are really into stimfapping. It's like a whole, I think there's also a stimfapping spinoff subreddit.
16:21 Speaker 02 Dirty little secret of all the meth users out there.
16:26 Speaker 02 What do you, what do you think they're doing? Like when they're alone, smoking meth, like.
16:31 Ryan Broderick? They're masturbating for like 20 to 40 hours.
16:33 Speaker 02 That's exactly.
16:34 Speaker 03 Literally. No, yeah. Adderall is not that much different. I would have hundreds of porn tabs open, gooning for like three days straight. And then I would like have a seizure and blackout after like it was, it was, it was, it was nuts.
16:43 Ryan Broderick? Hell, yeah.
16:44 Speaker 03 Any other.
16:45 Ryan Broderick? Yeah, except some addictions are cooler than others for sure. And that one's pretty damn cool.
16:52 Ryan Broderick? This one like, but what I do think this gets us into kind of the more self-loathing aspects of this. And you can see this really quickly move out of these communities and, and start to get processed into more mainstream spaces. And so, uh, the same month that the bodybuilders discover, uh, no fab June, as they're calling it at this point. It gets shared over to the like self-help subreddit, get motivated. And the user there, uh, writes, since my early teens, I was an avid masturbator. Like most guys, I used it as a stress reliever. I always had the feeling that behind me not having the motivation. To do anything with my life, sitting in front of the PC all day, playing Xbox with some deeper psychological issue. Childhood, parents, trouble with school, traumatizing events, you name it.
17:34 Ryan Broderick? So one day I decided to stop all this. I went four months without masturbation and it was the best fucking time of my life. I was horny all day and all night, ready to conquer the world in a second. Let me tell you something, having sex with a girl and masturbation is something completely different.
17:49 Ryan Broderick? While the first thing is good for you and generally has no effect on your level of motivation. Masturbation just wears you out and makes you a lazy fuck. And, and, and this is really important here because I, we've, this has come up like in a lot of different episodes we've done about communities like this. And it's something that I try to warn our listeners about if like, if you see it online. There are communities and particularly now like influencers and grifters that love to say that whatever's wrong with you can be totally solved internally. And if you ever find yourself in a space where you're like, hey, you can take harness the power that's already within you to fix all your problems. You don't have to go to therapy. You don't have to get any sort of like medical operation.
18:30 Ryan Broderick? You just have to pay me to teach you the secret that's already inside of you. And like, once you see that kind of language, you've got to back out as fast as possible. Cause like you're, you're watching like a cult spin up online and it's almost always the same thing.
18:46 Speaker 02 Yes.
18:47 Speaker 04 Way to spoil the episode.
18:49 Ryan Broderick? So, uh, if you want to pay us $5 on Patreon, I can teach you the secrets of how to know that.
18:57 Ryan Broderick? But
18:57 Speaker 02 You can masturbate as much as you want.
18:59 Ryan Broderick? And you can masturbate as much as you want, uh, as long as you're not listening to this show while you're doing it.
19:06 Ryan Broderick? Going back in, uh, you know, thinking about this time period, like as you guys as teenagers online, you know, in the tea, you're steeped in, as you said, like, could you imagine like coming across posts like this and getting sucked into it, like sort of thinking?
19:21 Speaker 02 Ryan, I don't have to imagine.
19:24 Speaker 02 I was there.
19:25 Ryan Broderick? Yeah, we talked about it. Talk about it.
19:26 Speaker 02 I was on, I was on Reddit, on the No Fat page posting on it. I'm dead.
19:30 Ryan Broderick? Whoa. What?
19:32 Speaker 02 Yeah.
19:32 Ryan Broderick? You, wait, we've been recording for, for 20 minutes and this just came up?
19:36 Speaker 02 Dude, have you got the Witcher, dude? It's like, don't reveal the information.
19:42 Ryan Broderick? So wait, okay, wait, wait. So, so, so talk to me about it. Like, like, what made you do that?
19:46 Speaker 02 I remember at the time, I was working very, very hard. I was working like hard labor, basically like 70, 80 hour weeks. I like did a vegan diet and I felt like I had like more energy and focus if I didn't masturbate. And I like wanted like support for that. So I would post on the forums being like, talk about what I was going through. People were supportive about it. And I did feel like it like helped in a way.
20:12 Ryan Broderick? Sure.
20:12 Speaker 02 Like, like, you know, it was distracting. Like, you know, it's like, if I gotta get up and like work like 16 hours, like I want to be like dialed. And if I like smoked weed and jerked off and watched porn in the morning. And I think that part of it too is like, it's just like my own negative relationship like with, like that thing, like maybe it's like some guilt stuff that I haven't like worked through.
20:32 Speaker 03 Yeah, I wonder how much of these No Fat people are like, were raised Christian like us. Cause like, I thought I was going to hell.
20:38 Ryan Broderick? We're gonna get there. We're gonna get there. I've talked about this before on the show, but like I, when I was a teenager, I was like playing in punk bands in New England and sort of like doing DIY music. And I remember like every once in a while, like encountering like straight edge people.
20:51 Speaker 02 Yeah.
20:52 Ryan Broderick? Who, you know, were in the Boston area, like so militant that like, there's an, there's like a straight edge youth crew that's on the FBI watch list. Cause like, they were like doing crimes. I was always very aware of like this weird masculine, like monastic kind of idea where it's like, if you cut out drugs and you cut out alcohol. And if you go vegan straight edge too, and like, there are these like tough guys that always wanted to sort of like sell that idea, which I feel like was very prevalent in the 2000s.
21:17 Speaker 02 Have you ever gone like seven, 14 days without masturbating or watching porn?
21:21 Ryan Broderick? Brother, I can't do it without, I can't even go six hours, you know, like I'm Kramer in that.
21:26 Speaker 02 Like I kind of like, it does feel pretty good. Like, you know.
21:32 Speaker 04 What made you start? What, when were you like, when did you have the moment where you're like, I got an idea?
21:38 Ryan Broderick? Start no FAP.
21:38 Speaker 02 The exact same way you guys described it. It's just people online like convincing me that it was a good idea. And I was like, yeah, fuck it. I'll give it a shot. My life sucks, dude. I'll do anything.
21:47 Speaker 03 We were in such different circles online. Like, we were raised on the internet.
21:53 Speaker 02 Everyone, like, the big circles, you were like, you should jerk off as much as possible.
21:56 Speaker 03 Yeah, no, I was getting like groomed by furries on Facebook.
21:59 Ryan Broderick? Sure. I mean, that is the two sides of the coin. Like, there's either one or the other. It's incredible that you're not a fascist, Jeff.
22:08 Speaker 02 Yeah, I mean, incredible. I don't know about that.
22:13 Ryan Broderick? You're doing a great job of holding off on your fascist instincts.
22:17 Speaker 02 That's a better way.
22:20 Ryan Broderick? You're fighting them every day like the Venom symbiote.
22:28 Speaker 02 I appreciate, yeah, that's more apt. I appreciate that.
22:33 Ryan Broderick? But speaking of like, the people who were into this, because like, you know, this question has come up, like, what kind of person is into this? So, nofap.com is launched around this time. And it was started by a man named Alexander Rhodes. It was a spinoff of the nofap subreddit. And it has evolved into like a proper movement with like, even like, as seen on theatlantic.com and Cosmopolitan. And this is a 20, this is from a 2016 profile in the New York Times of Rhodes. And so they describe him as emerging as a spokesman against a disease, quote unquote, that hasn't been officially recognized by the medical establishment. He was careful with every word and asked to go off the record more than a government official.
23:17 Ryan Broderick? And so, yeah, they're incredulous about it, but they do, kind of, as the New York Times loves to do, legitimize it by covering it. They quote Rhodes as having accidentally clicked a banner ad at 11, which led him to a website that depicted rape. And it bothered him so much that after a few years, he quit Google, where he was working as a young adult, to work on nofap full-time. So he said to the Times, "It's one thing to look back and regret what happened in terms of growing up, being addicted to internet porn." You might look back and be like, oh, man, I was a loser. And if I had never watched it, my life would be so much better. And maybe that's true. But at the same time, the fact that I was addicted to internet porn, the fact that I was so mediocre,
24:00 Ryan Broderick? makes me uniquely qualified to help humanity, which is exactly what I pitched Grant when we came up with this show. I'm so mediocre that I have to help humanity. But this quote also, I mean, as you guys can see here, is full of self-loathing. It is like, it is like, it is dripping.
24:15 Speaker 02 It was like, it actually made me really sad to listen to. It was a bummer.
24:20 Ryan Broderick? Yeah, it is a bummer.
24:21 Speaker 02 To do that, and I wish I could say I've never seen that website before, but I'm, I've been there. Yeah, that's a bummer. That sucks.
24:30 Ryan Broderick? If you had to guess, like, what big institution picks up on this next? It's early 2010s. YouTube is now like big business. There's all kinds of places that would love to sort of find freaks on the internet and give them a stage. Can you guess like where this heads next? 2012.
24:49 Speaker 02 2012 YouTube, who's putting on the freaks? Yeah, I'm, I'm blanking. Let me.
24:55 Ryan Broderick? TEDx, baby. TED fucking X, baby.
24:59 Speaker 02 TED Talk earlier.
25:00 Ryan Broderick? TED Talk.
25:01 Speaker 02 TED Talks are already kind of evil.
25:03 Ryan Broderick? This is perfect for a TED Talk. And it turns into a TEDx Talk by Gary Wilson. And it's about porn addiction and it basically picks up the no-fat idea, legitimizes it. Here's a clip of Gary Wilson being very, very responsible in sharing a testimonial about the powers of no-fat, which are very real, apparently.
25:27 Speaker 05 I've been a psychologist and psychiatrist for the last eight years. Have been diagnosed with depression, severe social anxiety, severe memory impairment, and a few others. Have tried Effexor, Ritalin, Xanax, Paxil. I've been a hardcore porn addict since age 14. For the last two years, I've been experimenting and finally realized that porn was an issue. I stopped it completely two months ago. I've since quit my remaining medication. My anxiety is nonexistent. My memory and focus are sharper than they've ever been. I feel like a huge chick magnet and my ED is gone too. I seriously think I had a rebirth, a second chance at life.
26:11 Ryan Broderick? The, the idea of quitting medication is another, I think, red flag if you find yourself.
26:15 Speaker 02 Never. The doctor, you talk to the doctor.
26:20 Ryan Broderick? Well.
26:21 Speaker 02 Not the TEDx guy. It's not even TEDx.
26:25 Ryan Broderick? What do you think, what do you think this, okay, so this guy's name is Gary Wilson. What do you think his credentials are?
26:31 Speaker 02 I mean, maybe he had like $500 at one point, like.
26:41 Speaker 02 Like, isn't TEDx just like a paid thing? Like, you just buy it and you can kind of do whatever. That's how Sam Hyde did it.
26:47 Ryan Broderick? He's a massage therapist.
26:51 Ryan Broderick? He's a massage therapist.
26:53 Speaker 02 Oh, my God.
26:54 Ryan Broderick? He has no credentials. And in fact, like Ted had to put a disclaimer on that video being like, this guy doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about. But of course, the video exists. They didn't take the video down. Why would they? And.
27:08 Speaker 02 I rack up over millions, 10 million, 5 million?
27:11 Ryan Broderick? Let's see. I mean, I've watched it several million times to help me. It's got 17 million, it's got 17 million views.
27:18 Speaker 02 10 million views of a guy saying, stop taking your medication. I'm a massage therapist. Just stop jerking off. Yeah, if you stop watching porn, you won't need any of that shit.
27:28 Ryan Broderick? And it's the rizless guy. Yeah.
27:30 Speaker 02 He's like, I'm weird and no one likes me.
27:33 Ryan Broderick? I'm a weird, sad guy and here's a bunch of graphs about how fucking weird I am.
27:40 Speaker 02 Porn, that's the problem.
27:41 Ryan Broderick? Porn, yeah. This also gets it on the radar of another very famous crank, a deeply discredited psychologist, Dr. Philip Zimbardo, who's behind the Stanford prison experiment. And he picks up the video, he picks up NOFAP, and actual psychologists are really unhappy about this because like, all of these ideas that like, pornography is like this like evil force in your life. There's not a lot of evidence that that's actually true. I mean, we're going to get deeper into that, but statistically.
28:17 Speaker 02 Experiment was real? I thought that was like a creepypasta.
28:20 Ryan Broderick? It's real, just like it's deeply discredited. Like, it's not like, it's not, yeah.
28:26 Speaker 03 It's a, it's a study that happened. The way they went about the study is not.
28:30 Speaker 02 I'll, I'll look into it after.
28:33 Speaker 04 My favorite fact about this was that they were like, this prisoner experienced so much distress. We had to release him from the study earlier and they found the guy years later. He was like, yeah, to test the study for it. I was fucking bored because they were holding me in a room. So I acted crazy so I could go do something.
28:53 Speaker 02 Okay, I'll have to look more into this. I'm uneducated on the topic.
28:57 Ryan Broderick? Yeah, well, it's okay. But after, after a break, we're going to be talking about how bad journalism, bad media leads to more bad online men. But first, a word from our sponsors who I personally have to apologize to. But your ad's running here and there's nothing you can do about it. It's mine now.
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29:52 Speaker 06 Now streaming on Paramount Plus. I'm Dexter Morgan. I've been killing killers for half my life. It gets to you. You're having a midlife crisis. I'm not ready for this. He's back. I'm older. I'm wiser. And sharper than ever. Things are going to get messy. But if I can't believe in myself, I can't believe in anything. Dexter Resurrection, new season now streaming on the Paramount Plus Premium Plan.
30:24 Ryan Broderick? 2010s, conservative media. You guys, what do you remember about kind of like the right wing echo chamber, you know, like pre-Trump 2016?
30:34 Speaker 02 You remember Breitbart? I remember arguing with my like high school graduating class on Facebook a lot. Was uh, and I remember it's like probably one of my biggest Ls was deleting my Facebook after Trump won. Like I got, yeah, I felt like I got owned. Cause I was like in my community just yelling at people on Facebook. Do you remember kind of that era of my life?
30:56 Ryan Broderick? Nah.
30:57 Speaker 02 Nah, I don't even know where you were. You were somewhere else.
31:00 Speaker 03 I was just addicted to drugs on furry Facebook.
31:03 Speaker 02 Yeah, we were just kind of in a fog during that time.
31:05 Ryan Broderick? What was furry, what was furry Facebook like? Oh God, terrible, horrible time.
31:12 Speaker 02 My family got invited to go on Dr. Phil because of it.
31:16 Speaker 03 We didn't.
31:17 Speaker 02 That's kind of off topic. Maybe a story for another day.
31:19 Ryan Broderick? I don't think that's that off topic. Hold on, give us a, give us a quick spark note to this, please.
31:23 Speaker 03 It didn't, it didn't end up happening, but they wanted us on Dr. Phil.
31:27 Speaker 02 It didn't end up happening because of you.
31:29 Speaker 03 I chose not to do it.
31:30 Speaker 02 Yeah, she chose, which was so wise, which was.
31:33 Speaker 03 Yeah, cause they, it was just a like gotcha to like make furries look bad.
31:37 Ryan Broderick? Sure, okay.
31:39 Speaker 04 So you were a big poster if they were like, Dr. Phil wants you?
31:43 Speaker 03 Yeah, I was like, I was what they call poppy fur.
31:47 Ryan Broderick? Oh, okay.
31:48 Speaker 03 Um, on furry Facebook, but I was like, what, like 14, 15 at the time. And so I was just getting groomed by like adult furries and not to say that the like, you know, every, every fandom is full of groomers. Like they just, they're out there. Not to say that's exclusive to the furry fandom. I'm a hu, I'm a huge like, the furry fandom's a very wholesome place. They're just like, they exist out there. Just want to make that clear. But um, no, the furries I were involved, was involved with were fucked up.
32:19 Speaker 02 I begged, I begged Kat to be like, please let us go on Dr. Phil to be so funny because I was like a senior high schooler. I would be just like the funniest shit ever. And I'm so grateful to this day that she had the, what do you call the foresight to realize that would be a bad idea.
32:33 Ryan Broderick? It would have been, it would have been cool if you could have convinced your entire family to come out in fursuits and just be like, this is normal for us.
32:40 Speaker 03 Really supportive. We did not have that kind of money.
32:42 Ryan Broderick? Yeah, fursuits are expensive. That's true. Fursuits are really expensive.
32:46 Speaker 02 This is our answer for what conservative media was like.
32:49 Ryan Broderick? The reason I ask it is, is not super far off basis because like in the two, in the early 2010s, there were a bunch of right wing publishers that were trying to figure out the internet. Obviously Breitbart is the biggest one, but you also have like the Daily Wire, you have Gateway Pundit. And one of the things that they were spending a lot of time on was going into weird internet spaces to find, you know, internet focused content that they could use to radicalize people and like pull it out of those echo chambers. So Gamergate is the most successful one. They go into 4chan, they see Gamergate, they turn it into a right wing news cycle, but they're doing this with a lot of different things. And as it's, yeah.
33:25 Speaker 03 I would like to note that the worst furries I encountered were often conservative.
33:30 Speaker 02 Yeah, the conservatives, the conservatives.
33:31 Ryan Broderick? Yeah, they're all like cops and soldiers and stuff.
33:33 Speaker 03 Yeah.
33:35 Ryan Broderick? Lot of cops are furries in my experience. Lot of EMTs and cops and soldiers for some reason.
33:40 Speaker 03 Yeah. And that's like the right wing section of the furry fandom. And it's pretty, it's pretty separate.
33:46 Speaker 02 And you were getting groomed by mostly those guys, you would say?
33:48 Speaker 03 Yeah, it was the conservative furries that are like the worst of them.
33:52 Ryan Broderick? Quite a coincidence that, uh, that the right wing furries were grooming you. Um, so that in this time period, like as right wing media is trying to figure out how to crack the internet and like find parts of the internet to turn into right wing narratives, NoFap starts to change as well. And New York Mag writes about this in 2013. Uh, and they, they point out that like, even the idea behind it is starting to, to mutate. Uh, the, the piece reads, the most notable, the most noticeable shift within the forum, uh, is how NoFappers have begun to characterize their short-term challenges as now long-term lifestyle choices. One discussion is literally titled, titled,
34:29 Ryan Broderick? NoFap isn't a challenge, it's a way of life. Uh, and then the quote that they keep saying over and over on these boards is, I feel like a man again. So now you're also seeing like, A bunch of the different tendrils of this idea connect back together. So now it is like this pro masculine, like very like monastic kind of long-term thing that all of these men are claiming they're doing. And then a couple of years later in 2015, there's a subreddit spinoff called NoFap War, which creates like a game version of this. So the recruitment drive page reads, let's get one thing straight. If you're thinking about giving a half-hearted effort in abstaining from PMO or porn masturbation orgasm.
35:11 Speaker 03 Awesome.
35:12 Ryan Broderick? Yeah, weird men online love acronyms. Then you are not cut out for the war. Though the war is a supportive, positive community, it is not a place for second chances and do-overs. Get the picture, soldier. The war cannot be won without a firm resolve. You will be pushed, you will be tested, you will find yourself on the verge of relapse, but you must not fail. For countless soldiers, this conflict is the added accountability they've been lacking to truly break their cycle of relapse. And like, this is such an interesting snapshot of like,
35:45 Speaker 03 Fascinating.
35:46 Ryan Broderick? how weird men talk to other weird men. Oh, like, I mean, I'm gonna assume everyone involved here is between the ages of like 11 and 23, right?
35:55 Speaker 03 Yeah. What I'm gathering here is that these are men who like had no control over their lives. And this is just like the most common, like overwhelming urge to have. And so they feel like tackling that is like the biggest obstacle they can, they can come across. And like, that's really just what it is, is like, that's the only way they can feel some kind of control over their lives.
36:18 Speaker 02 It's so interesting the way they adopt like recovery language, like using the word, like,
36:22 Ryan Broderick? Yes.
36:23 Speaker 02 using the word relapse for masturbating is really crazy.
36:25 Ryan Broderick? There's so many, there's like, there's so many examples of this over the last 15 years of like, men being vulnerable online. And then finding men who like want to talk about it and then those men like effectively grooming them or radicalizing them like it is the same language in all these different places and in fact, th- this is true, a bunch of studies were done in the mid 2010s of like the overlap between different Reddit communities and there was massive, massive, massive overlap between NoFap and the Donald, which was the pro-Trump subreddit.
37:00 Speaker 02 Wow, it's like dude, this insecu- the, the, the victimization and the insecurity of the fascist, bro.
37:07 Ryan Broderick? Exactly, it is, it is, and, and I don't-
37:10 Speaker 02 Now I see the thread that you're, okay.
37:11 Ryan Broderick? I don't think it's always the case that these communities become fascist, but I do think vulnerable communities are easy to radicalize, in the same way that like there are not all weird pervert fascist furries, but it's like if you find a subculture and you can speak that language, you can invade that subculture really easily and take it over and, and there's a lot of examples of that, I feel like.
37:34 Speaker 02 And I feel like the also feeling like you're addicted to pornography and masturbation and I think at the end of the day, it's like probably people are more upset about being addicted to pornography than they are being addicted to masturbating and they kind of go handi- it's probably feels incredibly emasculating if you have certain tendencies.
37:48 Speaker 03 Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that I'm gonna guess that most of these NoFap people blame porn for existing, for like being like the way that they are, instead of having some goddamn accountability, um, some personal accountability.
38:03 Speaker 02 Responsibility, even.
38:05 Speaker 03 Uh, am I, am I right?
38:06 Ryan Broderick? You are right, I mean, like, this, just think about the inherent silliness of like having a serious social movement like this based around the onomatopoeia for masturbating from hentai, like this is like, like, how serious can you take into this, right?
38:20 Speaker 03 Jesus Christ, no, yeah, that's like, that's like blaming bars for existing, for being an alcoholic.
38:25 Speaker 02 But at the same time, though, at the same time, as someone who has gone multiple weeks without watching porn and masturbating.
38:31 Ryan Broderick? Hey, that's great.
38:32 Speaker 02 There is a magic-
38:33 Ryan Broderick? I want to say that's great to hear.
38:34 Speaker 02 There's a magic to it, there is a little something there, but-
38:37 Ryan Broderick? You believe in, in NoFap magic, like you can move stuff with your mind after like week three?
38:41 Speaker 02 I do, I do think that you do get a little bit of superpowers when, when you do it, I think that it's, but are you familiar with the term a pink cloud, have you ever heard that before?
38:50 Ryan Broderick? I am not and I'm terrified to find out what that means.
38:53 Speaker 02 It's another recovery, recovery saying it's like when you quit like drinking or like quit doing heroin like for the first like few weeks, you feel really, really good.
39:03 Ryan Broderick? Oh, okay. Yes, I have heard of this phenomenon. Yeah.
39:05 Speaker 02 And then the reality like starts to set in of of what you're doing. And then the pink cloud fades and they a lot of times they say the pink cloud is like the most dangerous, the most dangerous thing. I think that when you, if you feel like helpless to your addiction to masturbating pornography, and then you remove something from your life, I think it can be similar to like, maybe if you are addicted to a drug that you feel like is destroying your life, the few maybe first few weeks, first few months can feel like really magical, powerful and empowering. And then that can kind of be like intoxicating like in its own way.
39:38 Ryan Broderick? So real.
39:39 Speaker 02 So it's like, I think like people are really feeling like a physiological self-confidence like boost from this like garbage, I guess, being peddled to them. And that's a kind of creates like maybe like a feedback loop. Am I making sense?
39:54 Ryan Broderick? You are. And and you're touching on something that like I do think is important to lay out, which is like, the the scientific studies about like addiction to masturbation, addiction to pornography, you know, they're complex and like we'll get more into that later. But we we do know that there is clearly a connection between like self-worth and how media is consumed, right? Like we just did an episode about like eating disorders and like the if you look at eating disorder content online, it can absolutely trigger an eating disorder. Like those things go hand in hand, body dysmorphia and the media, it's all it is connected. And I do think there is a thing there where like if you are someone who's
40:35 Ryan Broderick? watching hours and hours of pornography all day, like you probably don't feel good. Like you like, I don't think you feel good about yourself. You don't feel good about the way you look, how attractive you are.
40:46 Speaker 02 Absolutely.
40:46 Ryan Broderick? Word. Yeah, you're consuming like a a fiction and and you know, you're believing that this is something you're missing out on, whatever it is. And the guys who give up, give it up, I do think feel immediately better for a little bit at least. So yeah, I think you're right. But the popularity of the NoFap movement around 2018 finally breaks through and the into the mainstream and it becomes No Nut November. Uh, that is so popular that Burger King's official Twitter account is posting about it.
41:19 Speaker 02 What? Burger King talked about NoFap, bro?
41:22 Ryan Broderick? Yeah, so Burger King tweeted, uh, him, it's only a month, and then it says waifu, which is like a a- a anime manga term for wife.
41:31 Speaker 02 Geez.
41:31 Ryan Broderick? Cry emoji.
41:32 Speaker 02 So fucking stupid.
41:34 Ryan Broderick? Right.
41:36 Ryan Broderick? And as, as NoFap, as No Nut November is going mainstream, uh, the New Statesman checks in on it and, uh, this is a British paper, so this will explain some terminology I'm about to read here. "The anti-wanking community is an excellent recruitment tool for the far-right. Young men who feel ashamed of themselves are encouraged to put themselves through, let's face it, a very difficult physical test, all while reaching out to other frustrated men on the internet, many of whom are misogynist and racist." I remember when these pieces were coming out and I don't think NoFap is inherently misogynist or racist, but it is vulnerable men who are very easily radicalized. Like I, and I think that is the process here. And in a research paper done by Penn State titled "The Battle
42:19 Ryan Broderick? for NoFap," they kind of zero in on this dynamic. It reads, "User gave up porn reports on the financiers of pornographic companies and the servers on which the content is hosted. Fishbean, Slifkin, Rosenblatt, all Jewish surnames. The porn, the porn industry is owned and run by Jews. This is a fact, so don't shame us." This was in 2018, they posted this, and then they posted again. "When NoFap is accused of being antisemitic, one user claims this is an admission that porn is a Jewish plot." Which is way, way, way, way more extreme than anything we saw in the, in the 2000s.
42:57 Speaker 02 Right. Yeah, that's, um, yeah.
43:00 Ryan Broderick? Who was saying that?
43:03 Ryan Broderick? A user named gave up porn who likes to track the Jewish connections of the porn industry.
43:09 Speaker 02 Right, so they're these guys are feeling helpless and they're feeling addicted to porn and then they come to the conclusion that it's like a Jewish weapon being used against them to turn him into servile.
43:19 Speaker 03 I have something to admit.
43:21 Ryan Broderick? Okay.
43:22 Speaker 03 Israel's been funding and backing my OnlyFans.
43:24 Ryan Broderick? Okay, well, that's totally fine. I think it's really important here to show how when you get these kinds of communities and they start to radicalize, they have to find an enemy, an answer. They have to find an other to blame. It's why almost every weird internet community from the 2000s eventually spins out into neo-Nazi stuff. Because they've just like been fermenting in it for years without a solution. And like, it's really easy to just be like, yeah, like porn is Jewish plot. Uh, now, uh, it's, it's, it's, you see it in, in all of these communities, I think.
44:00 Speaker 03 You know, these cave drawings are a fucking Jewish plot right now to get me, to keep me from hunting mammoths.
44:07 Ryan Broderick? Exactly, exactly.
44:09 Speaker 03 Jesus.
44:11 Speaker 02 Have you ever listened to Healthy? You know who Healthy Gamer GG is?
44:15 Ryan Broderick? I do, yeah.
44:16 Speaker 02 Yeah, he has like, his take on it is so cool. He's like, look, you can get addicted to pornography for sure. He, he's like, if you try to not do it forever, you're almost invariably going to relapse and then your brain is gonna become better at being addicted to it. He's like, just do Windows. Just like, give yourself.
44:37 Ryan Broderick? Oh, I thought you meant like switch from Mac to Windows. Oh, you're saying like?
44:41 Speaker 02 Time, yeah. He's like, if you're, if you feel like you're addicted to porn, just do it. He says what he does with his clients is just gives them like times of day to do it. And then that way you feel like you're not taking over your life.
44:53 Ryan Broderick? A little porn siesta.
44:54 Speaker 02 Yeah, that seems like a reasonable compromise.
44:56 Speaker 03 Moderation.
44:57 Speaker 02 Yeah.
44:57 Ryan Broderick? And we're gonna, we're gonna talk more about Healthy Gamer in the third act here. Yeah, don't worry, we're getting there. But I do want to say, uh, like, before we go to the next act, is that like, as this stuff is spinning around the right wing echo chambers being picked up by right wing media, by 2018 is when we get the kind of like self-helpification of right wing content. So you get like Jordan Peterson, you, you, you guys familiar with Jordan Peterson, of course?
45:24 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah.
45:25 Speaker 02 We love Jordan Peterson.
45:27 Speaker 03 He helped me go viral.
45:29 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah, yeah, Cat. Well, one of Cat's biggest videos is a Jordan Peterson, uh, like, sorry.
45:35 Ryan Broderick? Did he share it, or was he, was he mad about?
45:37 Speaker 02 I just used his audio for.
45:39 Ryan Broderick? Okay.
45:40 Speaker 02 It's like when she got bottom surgery, it's like the clip of him being like, "You can learn, you can learn to take the ultimate load." Yeah.
45:51 Ryan Broderick? The, Jordan Peterson, obviously, is like, perfect for this world of NoFap. You know, this is where you get like, the intellectual dark web, who, they're, they're clearly like, trying to figure out what to do with all the weird fucking guys that are now conservatives. And so they're, they're, they're selling them like, self-help books, and they're trying to like, help them clean their rooms. This is also around the same time that like, Logan Paul does No Nut November, which is great.
46:14 Speaker 02 Good for him.
46:15 Ryan Broderick? Yeah. Um, and then, of course, finally, in 2018, you get Joe Rogan.
46:23 Speaker 02 Rogan did it. That's so right.
46:26 Ryan Broderick? Picking up on NoFap. Um, it has 7 million views. Uh, here, let's play a little, a little section of this, just so you guys can get a taste of Joe's, uh, opinions on NoFap.
46:37 Speaker 07 You know, Ari studied the Talmud, and did it for like, 12 hours a day, when he was a young, young man. He told me that there was one passage, where in one of the ancient texts, where it was talking about battling a dragon. And he said, he's like, "This doesn't make sense, because everything in here is supposed to be a story that actually happened." Like, what is this dragon? "Oh, the dragon is a metaphor for masturbation," they tell him. So the dragon that takes away young boys, this is, it is, it is a metaphor for masturbation.
47:13 Ryan Broderick? So, uh, yeah, the, the dragon is a metaphor for masturbation.
47:17 Speaker 02 Are you guys, are either of you guys Jewish? I'm not Jew. Are you?
47:20 Ryan Broderick? I'm Jewish.
47:22 Speaker 02 Okay, is that a thing?
47:23 Speaker 04 I mean, maybe somewhere, but I'm sure that Joe has it wrong.
47:28 Ryan Broderick? I, I, I think we can, I think we can count on Joe having it wrong, yeah.
47:34 Speaker 02 Yeah, it does sound wrong.
47:36 Ryan Broderick? Once Joe Rogan picks it up, it's now everywhere. Uh, no FAP is like a part of how you have to join the Proud Boys. Fun fact, like you can't.
47:46 Speaker 02 Oh, no shit? Really?
47:48 Ryan Broderick? Yeah.
47:48 Speaker 02 You can't masturbate at all if you're a Proud Boy?
47:51 Ryan Broderick? It's, uh.
47:52 Speaker 02 You're jerking it too.
47:53 Ryan Broderick? I did not know that. You basically, uh, you have to, um, name five cereal brands and you have to promise not to masturbate anymore. It's one of, it's like, there's a couple of other things you gotta do, but. So, all, all of this is to say, by the time we hit like 2020, no FAP is everywhere. It's mutated in a million different directions. It's a big right wing talking point. And we're gonna talk about how we have not really recovered from it taking hold of particularly conservative politics. After a word from our sponsors, the first ever Courier Men's Retreat. Uh, Courier News is doing a, a retreat just for men. You can hear about that in the ad break.
48:40 Speaker 00 LinkedIn is pretty amazing at helping you grow your small business. We cannot make your email response time faster. We can help you sell, market and hire in one place. We cannot help you find space for your three desk drinks. Why do you have three? And while we can't help you find the perfect volume for your presentation video, LinkedIn can help you find the perfect audience for your business. Grow your small business on LinkedIn. Learn more at LinkedIn.com/smallbusiness.
49:10 Speaker 06 Now streaming on Paramount Plus. I'm Dexter Morgan. I've been killing killers for half my life. It gets to you. You're having a midlife crisis. I'm not ready for this. He's back. I'm older. I'm wiser. And sharper than ever. Things are gonna get messy, but if I can't believe in myself, I can't believe in anything. Dexter Resurrection, new season now streaming on the Paramount Plus Premium Plan.
49:41 Ryan Broderick? Covid happens, we all go crazy, the media shifts its focus from no fat to, you know, a possible civil war, we kind of forget about it, but it is still there. And you see bits and pieces of it all over the internet now, it's sort of just become accepted that like this is real, it is a thing, and you, you know, you should do it, you know, you see Christians about, there's like Christians on TikTok that make music about like their porn obsession, you, there's like, you haven't seen it, hold on, Grant, pull up one of these videos, because this is pretty good.
50:13 Speaker 02 I would love those. Yeah, this is awesome. Worth the price of admission right here.
50:18 Speaker 04 I'm, thank you so much, this is, this is earnestly like maybe one of my favorite things on the internet, like, I think the song rocks.
50:25 Speaker 02 I'm stoked for this.
50:27 Speaker 08 Is using your pornography addiction to ruin your relationships.
50:54 Speaker 02 Why does it sound like Of Mice and Men, dude?
50:58 Ryan Broderick? It's because Christians discovered Stomp Clap Hey Indy like four or five years ago, and they love it now.
51:03 Speaker 04 I would say that's better than any Of Mice and Men song.
51:07 Ryan Broderick? I just.
51:08 Speaker 02 I'm there with you, buddy.
51:09 Ryan Broderick? I just wish the Lumineers wrote songs about not masturbating.
51:14 Ryan Broderick? When you guys have recently encountered like no fat language online, like how are you, how are you seeing it like currently in modern day internet here?
51:22 Speaker 02 I mean, I don't see it as much online, it's like, I know people in my personal life who are like, I stopped masturbating and I feel really good, and when I do it, I feel bad.
51:30 Speaker 03 So I don't, I don't see that, like.
51:33 Speaker 02 You're probably not introduced to that language whatsoever.
51:36 Speaker 03 Yeah, no, because like, you know, sex worker, like, I'm very much like seeing the opposite.
51:41 Speaker 02 Yeah, it's like, this is bad, it's bad for business, dude, you don't want people talking about that shit around you.
51:46 Speaker 03 Yeah, this is like not the circles I run in.
51:50 Speaker 02 Yeah, I guess I don't see it online as much unless I'm specifically seeing it. I actually, to be honest, I started trying to do it again after you told me what the topic of the episode was.
52:01 Ryan Broderick? You started to, you started to do no fat again?
52:03 Speaker 02 Yeah.
52:04 Ryan Broderick? Okay, cool, thanks for prepping for the show, that's great.
52:09 Speaker 02 I'm on a little streak right now, but I think like after this episode, I'm kind of realizing that the whole thing is fucking stupid. It's my own shit.
52:19 Ryan Broderick? I, I, I think, I think that's the good take, like that's the takeaway here.
52:23 Speaker 02 This might actually help a lot of people, what you're doing.
52:28 Ryan Broderick? The, the, I mean, the thing is like after 15 years of the, of what is effectively an internet meme bouncing around, it's sort of been accepted as true. And you brought up, uh, Dr. K with the Healthy Gamer GG YouTube channel. It's got 2 million YouTube subscribers and you know, he's giving advice to people like, uh, you know, a 27 year old virgin who posted in the no fap subreddit that he needs to quit porn addiction. And now he's trying Findom, which is like when you pay women to, uh,
52:55 Speaker 02 Yeah, Findom.
52:56 Ryan Broderick? Yeah, Findom, yeah. Findom, yeah. Um, and he's, he's, he's paid, he paid one woman over $3,000. Uh, and he can't seem to quit masturbating. Um, and like,
53:08 Ryan Broderick? It's bad. And specifically what he says in the video is that the no fap subreddit can be a great place to get support. And we're gonna actually get to eventually the doctors who disagree with this guy. Uh, and, and I kind of trust them a bit more because they're, these doctors are not trying to become content creators. Uh, he is, he's, he's not radicalized. Uh, you know, he says you should be nicer to women, but he does refer to masturbation as a disease and he takes money on his streams in exchange for the advice.
53:35 Speaker 02 Really? He does, Sam. I always saw, I, I, I always liked his videos. Like I watched his videos all the time. I didn't know he was weird like that.
53:42 Ryan Broderick? I mean, I, I would, I would hesitate to say he's weird, but I don't, I don't love the fact that, I mean, I don't know, being a creator is tough, man. But like he, he's clearly like trying to like lean into what people already believe is out there and sort of like, you know, helping them through it. But, and he's on the nicer end of the spectrum, he is, but it's part of a larger ecosystem. An ecosystem that takes money from these guys and supposedly teaches them how to be better men. Here's just one example of the kind of guys, uh, in this not so nice space.
54:13 Speaker 09 What's up guys? In this video, we're gonna be talking about the dangerous downward spiral. How OnlyFans drains men's sexual marketplace value and slowly thwarts their dreams of a fulfilling life. You see, while I was conducting research for this video series, I experienced something that I didn't expect. It all started very innocently enough. I had dated or was dating several women who were OnlyFans models and my curiosity led me to create an anonymous account to see what they were publishing, if they were telling me the truth and how far they were willing to go to increase their earnings. But what I never anticipated was how I would fall victim to the pool of the platform myself.
54:53 Ryan Broderick? So, that is Andrew Farby for knowledgeformen.com. He has no real qualifications in therapy or psychology. He's a jujitsu guy who used to work in a frat and did sales work at Apple. And his advice for guys looking for ways to equip masturbating to porn are things like masturbating to another male, having sex, puts you in the beta male position where you are the spectator in another man's pleasure.
55:21 Speaker 09 That's right.
55:22 Ryan Broderick? And this is Farby, the only guy. In fact, Grant put together a very brief montage of what this world sounds like.
55:28 Speaker 10 Today, I'm gonna talk about how NoFap saved my life. And I know, I know what you're thinking, you're like, "Oh my god, this is the cringiest video. NoFap saved my life." It was like, not even women, it was the world at large was not interested in me. I was invisible to the world. And so, I found semen retention. It's as if I became attractive, finally. Even my Hollywood agent, he's like, "There's something special about you."
55:57 Speaker 11 It has never been harder to win than right now. Why? Because every single day, you are frying your brain, you are killing your attention span, and you are killing your focus, you're killing your testosterone, and because of all of that, you're killing your success.
56:19 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah, that's that's when it gets to a point of just like, shut up. That's like saying bars are like the reason like alcoholics exist like have some personal accountability. Um, I like that. I'm not going to say like masturbation addiction isn't a problem. Like there's definitely guys spending way too much money on me. But um, I like blaming other people for your own inability to like, stop doing something is just like not the move, I think. And that's not a healthy mindset.
56:52 Ryan Broderick? Well, I mean, also like with the rise of the word simp, you know, among Gen Z in particular, like it's a it's a specific word to go after. You feeling inferior because you have a parasocial relationship with a woman online. And like they're going after OnlyFans models, I think largely connected to how much money those women are making. Uh, and like it's it's this idea like, oh, wait a minute, like, the the women in the porn that I'm watching are becoming powerful and, you know, financially like successful. And like that's threatening and off putting like there's there there is a gendered like twist to this.
57:28 Speaker 02 Because they're all making so much.
57:30 Speaker 03 We're all making, yeah.
57:31 Speaker 02 So much. Kat is just.
57:33 Speaker 03 Oh, I'm rolling it. I'm breaking it in. I make a good amount. I'm in this like I'm in the top 1% of OnlyFans like.
57:41 Ryan Broderick? Hey, congratulations.
57:42 Speaker 03 I make a decent wage, but like it's a like for a lot of the time it's a front. Like you want to seem like you're making more money than you are. It's not like all the OnlyFans girls. Yeah, it's not like all the OnlyFans girls are like making a ton of money and that.
57:58 Ryan Broderick? Well, the rage engagement is exactly it, right? Like it's it's like, oh, how dare you like make money off of my self loathing and suffering, you know?
58:07 Ryan Broderick? Um, so I think it's finally time to talk about the science behind all this. Um, so I love that you've spent this whole show talking about your, your no fab journey. So it's time to time to see what what what's actually happening inside your brain.
58:22 Speaker 02 That's probably a good idea.
58:26 Ryan Broderick? So Slate did a piece in 2023 titled, "We Know NoFap Is Misleading Men About Masturbation, It Might Be More Dangerous Than That." And they quote Nicole Prowse, who co-wrote a study on NoFap, and she is not a massage therapist, but a neuroscientist. And she said that "the shame that comes with the relapse is actually the most dangerous thing about NoFap," and that what it's actually doing is radicalizing men further by creating a system that feels like they can fail it. So this is an important quote here. I'm gonna read this in no uncertain terms, okay?
59:08 Ryan Broderick? "There is no objective basis for pornography addiction, an opinion supported by numerous peer-reviewed studies and experts in the field. Instead," they write, "we've seen three real-life suicides among NoFap users. Though there is no way of telling if these were due to their membership in the community, in 2015, a prominent NoFap moderator believed she was a lesbian. She posted about coming out to her husband as a lesbian, and then 24 hours later, she died by suicide. According to Prowse, the data show that most of the people who seek treatment for pornography addiction overwhelmingly end up diagnosed with depression, around 90%, according to data from one inpatient facility." I actually saw a study this morning that shows that religious upbringing is actually
59:49 Ryan Broderick? the biggest correlation to self-reported internet pornography addiction. It is almost like always a symptom of someone who grew up in an extremely religious household and is processing that. And it is not so much that you're addicted to pornography, it's that the pornography addiction, quote unquote, is an expression of you dealing with that, let's call it religious trauma. That is almost always what is happening here.
1:00:13 Speaker 02 And I think that's like why people report like having, and even myself, like when I would do, be like having like, quote unquote, like, "superpowers," is probably just because you're like manufacturing this sort of fake unsustainable system where you can go out, go like a certain period of time without feeling like intense bouts of shame. But that's really like a deeper problem that needs to be addressed of like why you feel like ashamed of like engaging in sexual behavior.
1:00:37 Ryan Broderick? I genuinely thought I was going to hell every time I masturbated, like, growing up. I would open the Bible afterwards and be like... So here's another little twist, little callback. So you talked about, Cat, after you transitioned, you didn't feel that way anymore. It is not the testosterone. It is, according to this, most of the people who have sex negative feelings after masturbating are people that have anxiety or depression. So it's probably more likely that you feel less depressed and less anxious after transitioning and thus no longer have as many sex negative feelings.
1:01:15 Speaker 02 You are definitely less.
1:01:16 Speaker 03 Interesting.
1:01:21 Speaker 02 Every podcast episode just brings me closer and closer to the realization I'm gay and also trans.
1:01:28 Ryan Broderick? That's right. If you're listening to this, dear listener, and you have sex negative feelings, try transitioning. See what happens.
1:01:35 Speaker 03 No, we can't. We can't force them, the listeners.
1:01:39 Ryan Broderick? Now it's time for our sissy hypnosis section. We're gonna just tear you all
1:01:44 Speaker 02 Find the Patreon wall, though.
1:01:45 Ryan Broderick? Into femboys. Yeah, exactly. Right. And then you, we had talked about the window theory and then I, you know, Dr. K, he's a little uncomfortable for me. I don't totally love his whole deal, but the window theory isn't far off from what this neurosurgeon suggested. So she said, so the slate piece reads, "Prowse also recommends what is called Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, or ACT. This approach, which was developed in the 1980s by clinical psychologist Stephen C. Hayes, teaches the client to accept and manage emotions rather than avoiding denying or struggling with them. This includes acknowledging that negative feelings could be an appropriate response to situations."
1:02:21 Ryan Broderick? So basically, yeah, if you want to give yourself some time, some space to like do the thing that you feel weird about and then kind of sit with those weird feelings, that is actually probably the best thing you can do. It's definitely better, though, than what Dr. K does recommend, which is going into communities that might create structures where you can like fail. And that's the problem, because you don't want to send people into more vulnerable positions, because that's exactly how they start blaming the Jews for inventing pornography and being radicalized into neo-Nazis. It's like a classic fascist pipeline. So you, you create the structure in which you can fail at recovery, and then that shame leads you into deeper and darker waters.
1:02:59 Speaker 03 How would you compare the idea of failure in the NOFAB community to AA?
1:03:04 Speaker 02 Uh, I mean, it's like a chronic relapser. Like, I guess I have like some like, so I don't know, man. It's like, you know, the AA community, which I've been in and out of.
1:03:17 Speaker 03 Yeah, not to out.
1:03:17 Speaker 02 Not to fucking out.
1:03:18 Ryan Broderick? Oh, yeah. So the, the second A stands for anonymous.
1:03:25 Speaker 03 You know, I brought it up, like, I brought it up in a way where you could just be like, you know about it, but like.
1:03:30 Speaker 02 Yeah. I mean, I mean, I don't know. It's like, is educated, I feel about this episode. I feel like I'm more, I'm, I'm sympathetic to people who feel like their lives are getting out of control and they're like trying to gain like the control over it. But I also think that like, like what you're saying, Kat, about like personal accountability and responsibility is, but also it's like, I don't think AA is like trying to make people like vote for Trump or whatever. Like,
1:03:59 Ryan Broderick? No.
1:03:59 Speaker 02 Like, it's just free. It's like free therapy for people who are down bad. And I appreciate that.
1:04:03 Ryan Broderick? But there absolutely is, there absolutely are examples of like cults or like fascists or sort of extremists going into recovery settings and, and recruiting people.
1:04:15 Speaker 02 I had a sponsor who said, one of my favorite things anyone said about AA, who said, uh, AA is not a cult, but there are cults in AA and you should watch out for them.
1:04:23 Ryan Broderick? A hundred percent.
1:04:24 Speaker 02 And maybe in no FAP, you can almost kind of say a similar thing, even though it's a little different.
1:04:29 Ryan Broderick? I'm, I'm not in AA, but I, I do know like the first step of AA is accepting powerlessness. And I believe that that is an attempt at sort of getting around the like relapse failure feeling that like no FAP, especially the really extreme ones like to ingrain in people. So like AI, AA does seem to sort of think about how to make sure that people can fail and still feel okay with failure, which is the major danger here. Like it's that's that, it's like, how do you create a system? Where people don't like stop seeking out help and try to get actual help and and and the problem is that like after this became a meme and has become just like known in popular culture as a real thing. You're you're see, you know, you're gonna see like all kinds of crazy stuff online about this to this day. You know, you have got no fat influencers that have millions
1:05:13 Ryan Broderick? of views on YouTube. You've got like weird backlash against only fans models and very gendered sort of like attacks. You also have the Daily Wire writing about the dangers of hypno porn, turning people trans.
1:05:25 Speaker 02 Wait, there's a Daily Wire, there's Daily Wire articles about sissy hypno porn?
1:05:29 Ryan Broderick? Uh, of course. It is a, it is a video from two years ago with Michael Knowles.
1:05:34 Speaker 02 I got it. Oh, with Knowles, dude. I know what I'm doing after this.
1:05:38 Ryan Broderick? It's titled Hypno Porn Dangerous New Trend Turns Men Trans.
1:05:43 Speaker 02 He's such a fucking.
1:05:44 Speaker 04 Holy shit.
1:05:47 Ryan Broderick? It's really silly, but like it ties into even the ideas of like gooning rewiring your brain, or there's this popular notion that like your dopamine receptors could be affected by the internet, which like there isn't a lot of evidence for like, we like this stuff. We look at media that we enjoy. Based on literally the study I was looking at this morning before coming on the show, like, brain rot isn't real.
1:06:09 Speaker 02 Like, I kind of, yeah, I kind of fail to see how scrolling reels is really any different from flicking channels on a TV station from 20 years.
1:06:17 Speaker 04 It's the same thing.
1:06:18 Speaker 02 It's a fucking.
1:06:18 Ryan Broderick? I mean, and we do it with every technology. If you guys want to see a great movie about how VCRs are evil, go check out Videodrome by David Cronenberg. A VCR is so evil, it takes over James Woods's stomach, and then he cuts Debbie Harry's nipples off. It's a great movie. But we do this with all new forms of media. We get scared about them. We claim that they're dangerous. And so like, there's this really popular notion right now that no fat slots directly into, which is like, the internet is rewiring the dopamine receptors of your brain. It's like, I don't know, man, like, I'm just like, watching videos on my phone. Like, I don't think it's that that deep. But I do think if you're depressed, if you're anxious, if you feel shame, you know, you can drift towards more, you know,
1:06:58 Ryan Broderick? harmful material to look at.
1:07:00 Speaker 04 One thing going through this timeline, just seeing the rise.
1:07:06 Speaker 04 Of the influencer who wants your $200 to teach you how to quit no FAP and become a real man. Like it starts off at TED and just like, this is kind of interesting for Article World. And then like everyone, like no matter where they fall on the like gentle to extremist spectrum, you know, like Dr. K is like very is on the gentle spectrum. And then you have the like, you need to be an alpha, like, but it's all the same business model of like, you need to give me money that you could be giving an OnlyFans star for and enjoy an orgasm. And instead. They're selling a fantasy too.
1:07:51 Speaker 04 Oh, shit, I love you. Oh, my God. Well.
1:07:56 Speaker 04 That was it. They're selling a fantasy where they can be alpha.
1:08:00 Ryan Broderick? There where they can be alpha. Yeah. You gotta do that. Yeah. Oh, shit. Damn.
1:08:07 Speaker 02 Damn. This has been a fucking dude. This is helpful.
1:08:11 Ryan Broderick? You're welcome.
1:08:13 Speaker 04 Ryan, Ryan, do you have any thoughts about the about rapid increase in like in Little Tate in Little Tates that like we haven't heard of, but have like 2 million followers? And, you know, our 19 year olds making their money trying to about like teaching guys how to approach women. I mean, it's just like, it's, it's like, there's so many more pickup artists adjacent things that you can now directly pay.
1:08:39 Ryan Broderick? Little Tates like Little Andrew Tates?
1:08:41 Speaker 04 Yeah, Little Tates.
1:08:42 Ryan Broderick? I think like, most of them like, aren't real. Like, I feel like a lot of it. Like, I feel like a lot of-
1:08:49 Speaker 02 They're actually AI?
1:08:50 Ryan Broderick? No, like, like, there's a lot of YouTube that is just like racking up millions of views and like, no one knows who these people are. You've never heard of them. It's like background music. It's not obviously good. It's not a good sign that this stuff is popular. It's also probably like a lot of people who just like type in like how to stop masturbating. Like, people forget that YouTube is a search engine. And like, it's directly connected to Google. So it's like, if you, if you're like, you know, 14 years old and you type in like, how do I stop masturbating? Because you're like weird fucking kid. And then you find these videos, you watch them, and then like you move on with your life. So I wouldn't say that like, they're totally indicative of like- A massive industry around this stuff, but like I think it's more an example of like how this idea has not died.
1:09:29 Ryan Broderick? This, this idea that like pornography is rewiring your brain is like a thing that everyone believes now. Because like 20 years ago, the New York Times like did an interview with this weird redditor who couldn't stop masturbating. And now everyone believes it's real. Like, like, that's how I sort of think about it.
1:09:45 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah, it's really the New York Times's fault.
1:09:47 Ryan Broderick? So I guess just to like end it on like, I mean, how, how do you get like, what do you guys think? Is like the best way to kind of like pull people out of this stuff or like make it feel less important politically? Like, cause I feel like it's one of these things that is just like stuck around and we kind of just accept it as real. But it's like, it's not, I mean, you know?
1:10:07 Speaker 03 Most of the times I interact with someone who's like totally just like transphobic conservative. I can vibe with them at some level and like they realize that I'm just like a normal person. And they just don't interact with people like me ever. And so they've been fed these ideas of people like me.
1:10:27 Speaker 02 Yeah, no, a really conservative guy who started watching the show. He's a friend of mine and he's like, yeah, you know, I don't know, man. I saw Bernie on Joe Rogan the other day. Shit's starting to make a lot of sense. Like, I feel like, you know, it's just like, I, I kind of like my instinct, just like, like take people by the collar of their shirts and shake them and just be like, be normal. But I don't think that's like very effective. So that's like.
1:10:47 Ryan Broderick? I don't think it's far off though. Like I, I don't think it's that crazy to just be like, hey, like be fucking normal like.
1:10:55 Speaker 03 That's kind of like why I started or like why we started this podcast. Like, I kind of wanted to appeal to like the cis man, like general, like type of podcasts that like, like we're kind of trying to give the vibe of like an average, like cis het dude podcast. But I'm just like trans, but that's not like the main part of it. I kind of just want to expose people to me being trans, but like.
1:11:20 Speaker 02 I'll make it like a whole thing.
1:11:22 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:11:24 Speaker 03 I'm trying to be palatable to the cis het men.
1:11:27 Speaker 02 Yeah. And like, some people take issue with that, but I see where you're coming. How, how did you guys find us by the way?
1:11:32 Speaker 03 You know, you guys. What are we doing here?
1:11:37 Ryan Broderick? Grant was showing me your clips like a couple of months ago and I was watching a bunch of it. It was great. It's great stuff.
1:11:41 Speaker 04 The clip of you both playing Edward 40 Hands and the would you rather explain the rules of football? Or explain the rules of football to a group of trans women. I was like, they're on the podcast.
1:11:54 Speaker 02 No one gave a shit about us till we take the 40. No one gave a fuck.
1:11:58 Ryan Broderick? I used to, in college, I once did Edward 40 Hands, but it was with two Colt 45s. But the Colt 45s, we had turned into space monkeys, which is a brass monkey, but instead of orange juice, it was Four Loko.
1:12:15 Ryan Broderick? So you drink the Colt 45s to the bell, then fill it with Four Loko, flip them upside down so it mixes. Then you tape them to your hands and then you play it that, you play it that way.
1:12:24 Speaker 02 Damn, that's great. Maybe like for a one year anniversary.
1:12:26 Speaker 03 That was like back when, that was like back when Four Loko's were like more insane.
1:12:30 Ryan Broderick? Caffeinated, yeah. Yeah. For context, I went to school on Long Island. So like this was just normal behavior that you would do on a Friday.
1:12:37 Speaker 04 I think those fall off.
1:12:39 Speaker 02 Go ahead, go ahead, please.
1:12:40 Speaker 04 No, I'm just thinking about Four Loko and how that was probably the fall of Western civilization. I think we got it all wrong. It's when they took away our caffeine alcohol.
1:12:50 Ryan Broderick? I have an original, I have an original with me. Actually, I keep it in my house.
1:12:54 Speaker 02 Breaking cases of emergency.
1:12:56 Ryan Broderick? It literally has a sign on it that says, breaking cases of emergency.
1:13:00 Ryan Broderick? Yeah. I want to thank you guys for coming on the show. This was, this was the most delightful.
1:13:05 Speaker 02 There goes our, yeah, thank you so much for having us on. Can we do, can we do shout outs?
1:13:10 Ryan Broderick? If people want to follow you on the internet, where can they do that and do some shout outs? Go for it.
1:13:13 Speaker 02 Free Country USA Pod on Instagram with the USA. The other one got banned. Don't follow that one. Free Country USA Pod. You can follow both. Doesn't really matter. YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, not YouTube, Instagram, Patreon. That's the one you really probably want to look at is Patreon.
1:13:32 Ryan Broderick? And you can find us wherever you're listening or watching this. We're on YouTube at youtube.com slash at Panic World Pod. And anywhere else you're watching or listening to this. And if you haven't already. Please do give us a follow or a subscribe and why not give us a nice little rating or review while you're at it. And it's an even better time to join than normal because our Patreon has a super special deal happening until the end of the month. 50 cents for the first month. That's a lot of content for 50 cents. Wow. Just use code PANICYEAR, P-A-N-I-C-Y-E-A-R and little checkout thing.
1:14:11 Speaker 02 And uh, shout out Comman Bolo, shout out Zushidos, shout out Spencer and Logan, Cosmos Apparel. Thank you for everything you've done for the show.
1:14:19 Speaker 03 Y'all want a shirt? We got you on a shirt.
1:14:21 Speaker 02 Yeah, we got you on a shirt if you guys want a shirt. I would love a shirt. To meet you guys. We're not selling these right now, but we have one for you. If you want them, we'll mail them to you. And shout out Panic World, dude. Thanks for having us on. We really appreciate it.
1:14:32 Ryan Broderick? Thanks, guys.
1:14:35 Ryan Broderick? Panic World is a production of Courier. It is written and produced by Grant Irving and hosted by me, Ryan Broderick. Josh Fialsted is our production coordinator and our amazing researcher is Adam Bumis. From Courier is Shane Verkest, who edits our video episodes along with our producer, Kevin Maroney, and National Managing Director and Executive Producer, Kevin Dreyfus. R.C. Demezzo is their VP of Brand and Social. Charlotte Robinson is their Deputy Director of Brand and Social. Mary Ann Kuga is their Director of Marketing. YouTube and Podcast Growth Marketer, Samantha Hallows. And Tracy Kaplan is the Senior Vice President of Sales and Distribution. If you want to sponsor the show or give us products to sell, she's the one to talk to. You can email her at [email protected] . Be
1:15:19 Ryan Broderick? sure to check out the Panic World YouTube channel, which you can find at youtube.com/panicworldpod. And please give us some nice ratings on podcast apps and leave a funny review. Lastly, here's my advice for you. Chill out and touch grass while you still can.
1:15:39 Speaker 04 Just to insert at the top of the episode where we talk about why it's not weird to have a brother and sister on for our episode about Novap, can you relay for our listeners the, the story you told about your friend wearing a shock collar while playing a video game that you shared on your podcast?
1:15:57 Speaker 03 Yeah, my friend has like this long distance shock collar and like you can like activate it from like a app.
1:16:03 Ryan Broderick? Oh, yeah.
1:16:04 Speaker 03 Why do you want me to read it up?
1:16:06 Speaker 02 Yeah, wait, how does this make us look, how does this make us look normal?
1:16:09 Ryan Broderick? I, I, I think we got, we introduced him, fine, yeah. Also, I, I have, I have a shock collar and grant, like, I use it all the time. We're just trying to relate, you know? It's not on a part of his body you can see right now, but it's on him.
1:16:20 Speaker 02 We have a normal relationship, we're brother and sister, we both have jobs on the internet. They're slightly different, but not really. Um, and it's fine, like, don't worry about it.
1:16:33 Speaker 00 LinkedIn is pretty amazing at helping you grow your small business. We cannot stop your new clients from emailing you at 3 a.m.
1:16:42 Speaker 00 We can help you sell, market, and hire in one place. We cannot help you be in three places at once. And while we can't help you organize your calendar, LinkedIn can help you land more clients so you have a calendar to organize. Grow your small business on LinkedIn. Learn more at LinkedIn.com/smallbusiness.
Previous Charlie Kirk was killed by a meme Next BONUS: How Eddington and Weapons hold a mirror up to our Panic World Page updated November 1, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated