That time a 4chan user got thrown in a Taliban prison

Today, we’re telling a story of human ingenuity. Except, in a dumb way. It’s one of the craziest things that has happened in a long time — which is really saying something — when some bro on 4chan ended up in a Taliban prison. Arturo Castro joins us to talk about a British guy named Miles Rutledge. Our guest Arturo Castro is an actor and currently hosts Greatest Escapes, a podcast where Arturo is joined by friends to learn the stories behind other "great escapes" like today's episode. Check out Greatest Escapes here or wherever you listen to them! Want even more Panic World content? Like ad-free episodes, bonus episodes, and access to the Garbage Day Discord? Sign up for just five bucks a month at: https://www.patreon.com/PanicWorld. Sponsors Want to sponsor Panic World? Ad sales & marketing support by Multitude, hit them up here: ⁠http://multitude.productions⁠. Credits - Host: Ryan Broderick - Producer: Grant Irving - Engineer: Rebecca Seidel - Researcher: Adam Bumas - Business Manager: Josh Fjelstad Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration blog, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies 18 plus.

• 0:26Ryan Broderick?

  Hey there, Ryan here. Before our episode starts today, I just wanted to say that we've received some like great messages from people about our, "My friend's dad has become a Holocaust denier" episode. And we thought there's probably more people out there that are having problems similar to that. You know, a friend or a loved one whose brain has been totally melted by the internet and you're trying to figure out why and what you should do about it. Well, if you're comfortable with it, you can shoot us an email at [email protected] either with a description of what's going on or you can leave a recording, whatever you're up for. And we'll keep it anonymous, you know, whatever you're okay with. And we'll talk about it on the show because I think you'd be surprised how many people are going through something like that

• 1:11Ryan Broderick?

  or know someone who's going through something like that. And once again, you can send that to [email protected]. Happy to take a look, see if we can help you, see if we can help some other people. To start things off, you know, I feel like you're the expert here. What's like your favorite great escape? What's like your favorite escape story? One you come back to often?

• 1:33Speaker 02

  Oh, man. I mean, there's this Frenchman named Michel who convinced his wife to take helicopter lessons so that she could bust him out of jail. And so she landed the helicopter in the jail yard. And he like kept the guards at bay by throwing grenades at them.

• 1:52Ryan Broderick?

  Okay.

• 1:53Speaker 02

  But the grenades were just tangerines painted black. That's all it is. And he got away with it.

• 1:59Ryan Broderick?

  That is insane. I feel like...

• 2:01Speaker 02

  I feel like, how do you pitch that to your significant other? I love my fiance. I love her to death. She does a lot for me. But that's a big fucking ask, man. Like, you know, like picking me up from the airport at LAX is like, that's a negotiation, you know? So I don't even know where I would begin.

• 2:37Ryan Broderick?

  The reason I ask you your favorite great escape is, well, I mean, you're the expert. You have a great podcast all about great escapes. And I thought I'd share one of my favorite ones with you, one I've been obsessed with for a few years now. It's the story of how a 4chan bro ended up in a Taliban prison. This is Panic World, a show about how the internet warps our minds, our culture, and eventually, reality. Joining us today is the host of Greatest Escapes, Arturo Castro. Thanks for being here and thanks for being willing to learn about some really weird internet stuff today. So, we were inspired for this episode based off your podcast, which tells stories of, you know, crazy escapes. But before we get into our main part of the episode, I wanted to figure out, I wanted

• 3:21Ryan Broderick?

  to learn, like, what made you get attracted to these kinds of stories?

• 3:26Speaker 02

  Like, I'm definitely interested in escapes, but that's one faction of what I, what I really love, which is events that seem insignificant and how they affect world history. Like, I'll give you a super quick example, but the world almost ended because of cheap bananas.

• 3:46Ryan Broderick?

  Okay, just tell me more.

• 3:48Speaker 02

  I come from, I've come from Guatemala, right? And so, you know how the US, like, staged so many coups during the decades and installed dictators that were friendly to the US?

• 3:59Ryan Broderick?

  Oh, word? What's the tea with Latin American, the American government? I remember, hold on.

• 4:03Speaker 02

  Before, Guatemala was their pilot program, because before that, the CIA was a joke. They kept trying to, like, send double agents to the Soviet Union and they kept getting killed or flipped, or, and it was just, like, horrible. But Guatemala had this democratically elected government, which decided to do a land reform and give it back to the farmers and you should, and then they realized that the United Fruit Company, owners of Chiquita Banana, had, like, these massive swaths of land that was, like, unaccounted for, but paying penny something dollars. So, they were like, hey, man, you can't fucking have this. But the Doz Brothers, uh...

• 4:38Speaker 02

  They were on the board of the United Food Company. So they're like, hey, man, I think this country needs a democracy.

• 4:44Ryan Broderick?

  Right.

• 4:45Speaker 02

  So they basically they staged a coup, they deposed the president, it kicked off 30 years of civil war and okay, now here's how to wrap it all up.

• 4:53Ryan Broderick?

  Okay.

• 4:54Speaker 02

  The man living in Guatemala at the time was not radicalized yet until this happened was named Che Guevara, Ernesto Guevara.

• 5:02Ryan Broderick?

  Oh, I've heard of this guy. Yeah.

• 5:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, so he fled, fled to Mexico where he met Fidel Castro, which then created the

• 5:10Ryan Broderick?

  I've heard of that guy too.

• 5:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, the Cuban Revolution, which then led to the Cuban Missile Crisis, which almost ended the world because of cheap

• 5:18Ryan Broderick?

  Bananas.

• 5:19Speaker 02

  Bananas.

• 5:20Ryan Broderick?

  That is so fascinating.

• 5:22Speaker 02

  I don't know. I'm more interested in the ingenuity of the human spirit, you know?

• 5:27Ryan Broderick?

  Sure. I actually, I heard some really good banana gossip the other day, if you'd like to hear a hot tip.

• 5:32Speaker 02

  I would love to.

• 5:33Ryan Broderick?

  So a friend of mine is doing like marketing for a banana company that I will not name. And apparently Gen Z doesn't like to eat bananas because they think it's too sexual. And they've done all this market research and apparently like banana sales are tanking. And then they wanted to like, do like a retro, sort of like embrace the history of bananas in America thing, but they can't. Because all the kids on TikTok know about all the CIA shit. So they're stuck and apparently bananas are just like really not selling very well right now.

• 5:59Speaker 02

  Oh, man. Well, you know, they come up and say, here we are 70, 70, 70 years later, we got them.

• 6:06Ryan Broderick?

  70 years, they got them.

• 6:07Speaker 02

  We got them with Jesse.

• 6:08Ryan Broderick?

  So we're going to be telling you a story of human ingenuity, but unfortunately in like the very wrong direction, like the wrongest direction possible. And while it's not a story that has yet to lead to any kind of revolution or civil war, uh, it does involve those things. Like it is tangentially related to those things. And it starts in an equally dumb way as cheap bananas. It starts with wanting to be an internet celebrity, the dumbest dream of all. So my question for you is, have you known anyone who's done, I don't know, some kind of insane thing for internet attention? Maybe to launch their career, like go viral, like, do you know anyone who's tried to do this before?

• 6:46Speaker 02

  You know, not to this, I like to disappoint you, but like, I, I think I've been hanging out with some really fucking like straight edge people, which I would never have thought you could say about actors in Hollywood.

• 6:57Ryan Broderick?

  No, that's good.

• 6:58Speaker 02

  But it's, it's, it's, yeah, I've never, or at least I don't, I've never hung out with somebody that That it's like, I'm gonna do this thing for fame and it's gonna work out, you know?

• 7:09Ryan Broderick?

  No, that's like, that's how it should be. You like, you shouldn't be friends with people who do internet pranks.

• 7:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, I just say, I'm like, I don't know. Have you, bro?

• 7:18Ryan Broderick?

  So the story that we're gonna be telling you today starts with a little website called, yeah, I would say equally as bad for the world as the CIA was in the 60s. Do you know about the website 4chan? Have you heard of this?

• 7:30Speaker 02

  I've heard of it. Yeah, I mean, obviously from, from the articles that it's super right wing, fucking crazy conspiracy theorists.

• 7:40Ryan Broderick?

  Right.

• 7:40Speaker 02

  Getting together.

• 7:41Ryan Broderick?

  If you've never used it, it's totally anonymous. Like, people just like post whatever on there. It's kind of like a bathroom wall of the internet. I mean, have you ever met anybody, have you ever met anybody who's used it or talked about it? Like, I don't know if you kind of grew up in the same age I did, where like, there was always like one weird guy in your high school who was like super into 4chan.

• 7:57Speaker 02

  I did, yeah. By the time I moved from Guatemala, I was 19, so I was in New York and most of the people I came with were just theater nerds.

• 8:03Ryan Broderick?

  Thankfully not, yeah.

• 8:06Speaker 02

  We were really into my space. But no, no, no, I don't know if I've ever met anybody on it.

• 8:12Ryan Broderick?

  So, one of the things that like people do on there is like, they'll sort of like ask the anonymous users, like, you know, should I do X or should I do Y or should I do Z? And this is how our story starts where our main character, he grew up on this website as a teenager, using it a lot. And like, almost everyone on there, he was anonymous. That's how it works. He was making dumb jokes and no one knew he was there and he decided he wanted to change that. Which is actually kind of a risky thing on 4chan. You're really not supposed to reveal your identity. His name is Miles Rutledge. Have you ever heard of Miles Rutledge?

• 8:42Speaker 02

  I haven't.

• 8:43Ryan Broderick?

  Great.

• 8:43Speaker 02

  Is he related to Cheetah Banana? Because he sounds like he's in the United Fruit Company's pocket. I don't know.

• 8:48Ryan Broderick?

  Well, there is colonialism involved in both of those stories, actually. But this is

• 8:53Speaker 02

  Tell me about it.

• 8:54Ryan Broderick?

  This is a different kind of colonialism. So, he, he's from England. He went to school at the University of Loughborough. And he was interning at a banking firm and he was posting on 4chan a lot. And he caught the idea from 4chan to start a meme page. You know like those like, local meme pages? Like, he was running one called The Loughborough Confession. And depression page, which is based on the archive that we found not good. It's like indecipherable horrible British memes.

• 9:25Ryan Broderick?

  But it was like the thing where you would like, you'd make fun of things you heard on campus or like an overheard on the quad kind of thing. Did you, were you ever sort of a fan of these kind of meme pages like, you know, like 10?

• 9:36Speaker 02

  Definitely. I mean, I, yeah, of course I was.

• 9:38Ryan Broderick?

  Well, the people who run these pages are not the best because like they stare at the internet all day. Their brains are totally rotted. And before we really dive into this guy's quest for attention, just to give you a sense of what he was doing before. All this stuff goes down, you know, we found a comment on there that reads, my 103 year old grandma saw this page and said it was disgusting uni culture. And wants to shut down. My question is admins, how do you respond to that? So that kind of gives you a sense of like how rough this, these meme pages were. But Miles, he's a finance bro. He's spending a lot of time on 4chan and he decides that he's going to buy a ticket to Kabul, Afghanistan in 2021.

• 10:20Ryan Broderick?

  He's going to spend seven to eight days there on his summer break and he buys a ticket. Days after the Taliban launches an offensive in Afghanistan and the US troops withdrew. Do you remember this moment?

• 10:35Speaker 02

  I do remember this moment quite well. Okay. Was he, yeah, was he going for the weather? Okay.

• 10:42Ryan Broderick?

  We're getting there. So this is in May 2021. He buys a ticket. By August, the Taliban has captured major cities across the country, most of the capitals. And NATO starts evacuating Afghan citizens and that's when Miles shows up in August 2021. And he goes on 4chan's travel board. So people don't know this, it is like a racist hellscape, but there's like different boards.

• 11:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's also tips if you want to live, laugh them up. Yeah. Okay.

• 11:08Ryan Broderick?

  So we've done a whole episode on their cooking board. They have like a cooking section where you can like learn how to cook. And they have a travel board called TRV and he posts a photo with the caption.

• 11:20Ryan Broderick?

  Just chilling in Afghanistan. And then he writes, decided to pop down to Afghanistan for a few days, never been before, just goofing off and soaking in the sun. So you were kind of right. Seems more peaceful than London to me. Ask me anything. So this is, this is where our story officially starts. Miles has landed in Afghanistan as the Taliban is taking the country.

• 11:40Speaker 02

  I do want to take a quick parenthesis and just circle back to this cooking area of 4chan for a second, because like, I would think that if you see somebody on 4chan posting about cooking Mexican, you have to like, think for a second as to what they actually mean, you know what I mean? Like-

• 11:58Ryan Broderick?

  Oh, like a person?

• 11:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know, but sorry, I digress.

• 12:01Ryan Broderick?

  No, no, it is a racist place, but my friend did learn how to cook bread on there during the pandemic. Like, they can be helpful.

• 12:09Speaker 02

  It's a great British baking show of the internet, that's funny.

• 12:13Ryan Broderick?

  It's kind of like a-

• 12:13Speaker 02

  I love Andrew Tate, but I also want this like banana bread.

• 12:16Ryan Broderick?

  But my sourdough isn't doing the cross thing correctly, how do I fix it, Anons? Yeah, no, exactly. So-

• 12:23Speaker 02

  So he's on the travel board, yeah.

• 12:24Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah, he's on the travel board, he's in Afghanistan, and he posts his picture and his name to 4chan, which not a lot of people do, and it blows up. So we have some of the comments that we've saved, but this is one of the only ones I feel comfortable reading on a microphone. So, one user writes, "This behavior is borderline sigma," which is a reference to sigma males, are you familiar with the sigma male? Okay, it's like the John Wick archetype. Then they write, "Goes to Afghanistan right when the Taliban is taking over, openly walks the streets and has no care in the world, is hanging out in a city that is about to become the 21st century equivalent of Saigon, posts his picture and his entire name on 4chan, a site notorious for punishing those that breach the enforced

• 13:05Ryan Broderick?

  anonymity, zero fucks given about all the cautionary advice, contrary to his own plans, Miles, you are a fucking mad lad and I wish you the best. If you die, you will die a legend, but if you live, you will return to civilization a hero." He doesn't, for spoilers, but-

• 13:20Speaker 02

  What?

• 13:21Ryan Broderick?

  So he's, he's there, and, I mean, like, what's your read on this kind of behavior? Like, why do you think, why do you think Mr. Miles did that?

• 13:29Speaker 02

  First of all, I want to say that that post that you read to me, in a very weird way, is an extremely, like, positive. Like, it's like when you can't use, like, loving, encouraging language, but like, you're trying your best to, you know what I mean? You're just telling somebody, like, "Man, you're living your best life, I admire you, I hope, I wish the best for you," but like, you had to tie it into like, a very light John Wick reference, you know, so-

• 13:56Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah.

• 13:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, this guy, it seems like he wants to communicate, doesn't have the tools for it, and if I'm Terry, I'm feeling pretty good with that comment.

• 14:03Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah, I think a lot of these guys are extremely emotionally stunted, which will become more and more apparent as we go further into our story today. But he's in Afghanistan and he's now actively posting on 4chan. And he writes, "I almost have a first-class degree in physics and an investment banking job." I love the idea of "almost have a first..." like, "almost have a degree in physics?"

• 14:25Speaker 02

  First year in, but I have full intentions and a mood board.

• 14:29Ryan Broderick?

  Exactly. Yet I'm... Okay, so there's no good way to read this. "Yet I'm incredibly retarded, yes. Also, I don't think you understand. The reason I came is because of the news. If the Taliban kidnap me, the plan is simple. I'm legally, technically a lord, bought a fake certificate, wore a suit in a bank, and talked the talk. So it says 'lord' on all my bank cards. The Taliban may see that as a reason enough to keep me alive, thinking it may hold some negotiating power, as they'll think I'm important. Let's hope it won't get to that stage, though." And what do you think happened next?

• 15:01Speaker 02

  Did he get kidnapped?

• 15:02Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah, yeah, he did.

• 15:04Speaker 02

  Oh my god, what?

• 15:06Ryan Broderick?

  We're gonna talk about how his plan didn't work out so well, right after the break.

• 15:10Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 15:15Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses setup required. Compatibility and availability varies 18+.

• 15:42Ryan Broderick?

  I want to sort of gut check, you know, like, is this level of craziness, like, typical of the people that you're sort of looking into and researching in, like, Great Escape stuff?

• 15:50Speaker 02

  No, but it... Well, I guess, sure, but like, mine are more historic in the sense of there is, uh, besides the sort of psychopaths and serial killers, or whatever, there was sort of a direct line of logic as to how they wound up. Were they, you know, there was a... There was an intent to rob to be in a better place economically or people blamed it on like wanting to have their families in a better place. I feel like this is definitely like generational or like this is like the past like, I don't know, 40 years of like, I just, this feels like the thing I'm gonna do and I've, I live online so much that I think this is gonna work out, you know, it's almost like toxic optimism, you know?

• 16:34Ryan Broderick?

  Yes, I would say like megalomaniacal privilege to just think like, yeah, the Taliban will think I'm a lord and I'll be fine.

• 16:41Speaker 02

  This guy, do we know if he traveled a lot before? Like, was this like, how old was he, sorry, by this point?

• 16:46Ryan Broderick?

  I mean, he's in his early twenties and he had just graduated uni a couple of years before and he was, yeah, I mean, as you said, he was a finance intern, like a finance bro, kind of intern guy, running a meme page and just decided to do this for the last.

• 16:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, people that have traveled to developing countries, like, it opens your eyes a little more to like, keeping your dumb shit to yourself, you know what I'm saying? You don't get a second pass at being dumb in a rough neighborhood in certain countries. And I think when you travel, you find that out. But this kid is obviously, I don't know, honestly, I'm having a hard time. I have no point of reference to this insanity, but go ahead.

• 17:25Ryan Broderick?

  No, I'm actually glad you brought that up because we are gonna, we're getting to kind of what you talked about in terms of like, how this fits into a larger world of people like Miles who, we'll get there, we'll get there, I don't want to spoil it. By August 14th, he's having a great time. He, he posts like a photo, now, this is all still on 4chan, which is very rare, people don't really use it like this. But he's posting photos of like, the food he's eating, and he's posting photos of like, the room he's staying in. Grant, wanna, wanna read the post for us?

• 17:55Speaker 03

  Okay, so Miles posts, "My room is nice, it's hidden off the street and barricaded with several steel doors and checkpoints with guards. I got a 32-inch fat TV, I've got an AC, which works surprisingly well, double bed and the mattress is rock hard, but apparently that's the custom here. I kinda like it."

• 18:13Ryan Broderick?

  And then the next day, the Taliban enters Kabul and they capture the city. And according to Miles, he realizes that shit has turned very serious very quickly and not funny anymore because there's a bank run, which, you know, uh, might happen in America, you know, by the time this episode comes out, who knows? And-

• 18:29Speaker 03

  Well, sorry, what's a bank run?

• 18:30Ryan Broderick?

  Oh, like people are trying to take their money out of the banks because like the economy-

• 18:33Speaker 03

  Oh, I see, I see, I see.

• 18:34Ryan Broderick?

  Um, and so he writes, uh, "Tickets are non-refundable, therefore I either stay permanently in a grave or leave as planned on the 19th. Just the Afghanistan grindset," as he described it. Uh, "Also, if I get proven wrong and die, edit a laughing soundtrack over my post. It'll be funny, I think." So there's chaos everywhere and he decides that he's gonna go live on Facebook and do a question and answer segment.

• 18:58Speaker 04

  Do you remember me saying I'm a threat by clogging for toilets? I never got to unclog it. So, uh, there's a massive shit left somewhere of Taliban going undercover.

• 19:10Ryan Broderick?

  And this is where like he starts to get like really big and all of the sort of darker corners of the internet are like taking notice of like this white guy from England in the middle of the Afghanistan withdrawal. So like-

• 19:21Speaker 03

  Right.

• 19:21Ryan Broderick?

  Things are getting really viral here and like the stuff they're writing in like the Facebook Live is awful. So, you know, I'm gonna make Grant read this one too, because I don't, I don't wanna read it.

• 19:33Speaker 03

  Thanks, Ryan. Really, uh, really appreciate that. Uh, okay, here's some of the exchanges. So he's like talking about people sending him like insulting things or whatever. And he says, "I just thought I'm gonna be killed by the Taliban. And you think sending your copy pasta about someone hanging himself is going to be dodgy? It's cool. You're not going to touch me. You're not going to affect me in any way. I'm literally too base for it."

• 19:59Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah, that is some real edgelord shit. Um, very bad.

• 20:03Speaker 03

  What is edgelording? Sorry, I feel-

• 20:05Ryan Broderick?

  Like an edgelord would be like, um, someone who just like says like offensive shit on the internet to like get in a reaction, like trolls.

• 20:11Speaker 03

  Oh, edgelord, yeah, I got it, got it, got it. Mm-hmm.

• 20:13Ryan Broderick?

  So he's loving the attention, but on the ground, things are getting dicey. The situation is, uh, evolving quickly, let's say. He's now posting on Facebook and he writes, "Country in Anarchy, just saw a few dead in a car crash. Military is fleeing, only a few brave stay. Embassy is closed, so I walked to the airport and I'm safe. We'll find British representatives and get a flight out." Yeah, he gets to the airport and he said he wore a burka over his face, so he wouldn't stand out. And he's trying to seem like, you know, like an Afghan woman, but at the airport, everything has gone to hell. There's no flights, no one to help him. He says the Taliban sees him and they let him go and he ends up getting back to a safe house. He's just like, obviously found himself in a situation that's not like an internet joke anymore,

• 20:58Ryan Broderick?

  which I think is like a really interesting... This guy is awful, but like his depiction of like the fall of Afghanistan is also kind of interesting in a way to me, because like it's such a weird document that we like, you don't, you don't really get like a middle-class Gen Z picture of this, you know?

• 21:17Speaker 02

  First, yeah, like first-person accounts that are in sort of like prepackaged by like, or like, you know, soundbite-y like you would from a war correspondent on CNN or whatever. You know, this guy's just kind of saying what he's seeing and that there's something interesting and unique about that.

• 21:34Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah, even if he's horrible, like to me it is interesting. He, he's trying to get out, he gets to a safe house and he like posts a photo on Twitter of him in a safe house with like a thumbs up. He's broadcasting on Facebook and Twitch from the safe house at this point. And he, by all accounts, seems to be having a great time with the attention at least. And this is finally when the British press learns about Mr. Miles. And the Times of London writes, "Rootledge, a Catholic," which I think is just such a weird detail that like...

• 22:01Speaker 02

  They're like, "Just so you know."

• 22:02Ryan Broderick?

  Super weird.

• 22:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, 200 years ago, we would have kicked him out and persecuted him.

• 22:06Ryan Broderick?

  A Catholic, you know? Said he had been praying roughly 20 minute, every 20 minutes and wearing his cross while walking the streets. Last night, he wrote to friends on social media, "I'm struggling to stand and keep down water. I don't think I'll sleep tonight. I've seen too many dead people. I just want this whole thing to be a little charity thing where I can explore a weird country." But, which I think kind of like references what his original plan was for this. Which is like, in his words, like, like, "Go to a weird country," quote unquote. And like, I don't know, do some like stupid asinine YouTube series about it. Uh, but he writes, "Uh, I've mentally broken down. I'm not sure what's going on right now. My face in the mirror doesn't look right." And then he wrote, "I still have regrets, but damn, I wish I packed more socks."

• 22:50Ryan Broderick?

  Which I do think is true. Everyone should pack more socks.

• 22:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, everybody should pack more socks.

• 22:53Ryan Broderick?

  It was pretty good.

• 22:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, I wonder if like, he thought that they, that he'd have more time, you know? Cause I, I think the, the fall of Kabul, sorry, and Afghanistan too, the Taliban happened so much quicker than people anticipated. Was that the thing? Or was he, was he aware? I, I forget if shit had already started, uh, hitting the fan when he went down there.

• 23:14Ryan Broderick?

  Shit had hit the fan. I mean, they were, they were taking capitals, but I, I do think you're right. Cause I remember following it just like as a journalist during that time period and being really shocked at how quickly. Cause I think everyone kind of assumed America would stay or do something and not just like leave.

• 23:32Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, yeah.

• 23:33Ryan Broderick?

  So, uh, so his tour guide gets him in a place with lots of other foreigners. And whoever was like running the safe house was negotiating with the Taliban to get these people out of the country. And yeah, shit gets real because you know, uh, this is like the most dangerous situation you can be in, in a geopolitical crisis. But fortunately for Miles, uh, he's a white British guy. So, you know, luck is kind of on his side unfortunately here. And he gets to leave and all that arrogance comes flooding back because now he's the guy who survived the fall of Kabul. He claims that the members of the Taliban recognize him. And as they're boarding the flight, Miles says the Taliban soldiers are taking pictures with him and videos and they're on TikTok.

• 24:16Ryan Broderick?

  And then apparently the Taliban is big into TikTok, which I did hear a story actually that Taliban fighters became very depressed after they took back the country because they were given desk jobs. And now they just sit on social media all day and like, they really miss like the act of like being out fighting with their brothers, which I think is kind of funny.

• 24:33Speaker 02

  Man, that's hilarious. Those like package reveal, like, like a package, like a Taliban package reveal or like, or follow me on my, on my day to day.

• 24:43Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah.

• 24:43Speaker 02

  Would be scary slash hilarious.

• 24:45Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, everyone eventually gets tired of like the nine to five in the office, I guess, even the Taliban.

• 24:51Speaker 02

  I would love to see a TikTok dance by like a group of armed Taliban men.

• 24:56Ryan Broderick?

  Honestly, that's pretty close. So they

• 24:59Speaker 02

  TT.

• 25:00Ryan Broderick?

  They get to

• 25:00Speaker 02

  TTK.

• 25:01Ryan Broderick?

  They get to a plane, they take him to Dubai. And you know, at this point, he's essentially escaping a war, which is totally insane. And he then does an interview with a horrible racist, insane Scottish YouTuber that goes by Count Dankula. He's

• 25:20Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 25:20Ryan Broderick?

  Like, you can just imagine.

• 25:22Speaker 02

  Previous New York Times fame.

• 25:23Ryan Broderick?

  Right.

• 25:24Speaker 02

  Editorial board.

• 25:25Ryan Broderick?

  I mean, not far off. I think they have done a profile on him. Let's listen to a clip. And just a warning, Count Dankula is a massive racist asshole and what you're about to hear is extremely racist.

• 25:37Speaker 04

  And some of them spot me, some be like 18 year old Taliban members spotting me, they pointed me, but eyes widened. And they, they literally start filming me. I go, oh, this is fucking horrible.

• 25:46Speaker 02

  Habibi, I seen your thread on Fortune. Fucking funny, Habibi.

• 25:53Speaker 04

  I think one of them tried to get self with me, but I was like, nah, I probably shouldn't, to be fair.

• 25:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, so yeah.

• 25:59Ryan Broderick?

  But yeah, so there's the, he's now, he's now like big time in the like, not the Trump world, but like the, the international far right world, because he's like this, as they said.

• 26:10Speaker 02

  Like the Andrew Tate's area?

• 26:12Ryan Broderick?

  Very similar. This would be like pre Andrew Tate, I think in a lot of way, like this kind of, and we're going to get to how, but a lot of this actually kind of sets the stage for, I think, some of the things that have helped Andrew Tate grow over the last few years. But he claims that he, you know, escaped safely and that he has like, you know, has a new lease on life. That doesn't last very long. Because after the break, we're going to find out what happens when Miles goes back to Afghanistan.

• 26:41Speaker 02

  No.

• 26:47Speaker 00

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• 27:14Ryan Broderick?

  Okay, let's say, I don't know if you've ever escaped a war zone or a conflict zone. Like, you know, if you have, if you haven't, like, would you go back immediately, do you think?

• 27:24Speaker 02

  Well, I have survived a few Black Fridays at the Tarjay in Hackensack, New Jersey.

• 27:31Ryan Broderick?

  Close.

• 27:32Speaker 02

  I did go back for a couple of years. But no, of course not. Like, it seems like, you know, finding yourself in a war zone, it seems like something that you don't willingly do, you know?

• 27:44Ryan Broderick?

  Sure.

• 27:44Speaker 02

  And once you manage to escape it and become a refugee of such war, like, the last thing you ever want is to go back to it. I would say any normal, logical person would agree with me.

• 27:57Ryan Broderick?

  I think that's true. I have come close.

• 28:00Speaker 02

  But, but, but, but, but, if I may. I think fame is addictive and sort of this positive reinforcement and this sort of, his army of edge lords, which by the way is the craziest fucking rebranding of a word since like mayonnaise turned into aioli.

• 28:23Speaker 02

  It's addictive, right? It's just mayonnaise, but it's addictive, right? So, you know, it's that loss you feel. And what the Taliban dudes are feeling too of like, okay, now what? Like, right? Like, what was it, you know? And that's sort of like existential dread of like, who am I if not the guy who's in danger? So I guess I understand it if I'm putting myself in his shoes.

• 28:45Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah, I have never done war zone reporting, but I've definitely done like conflict reporting and there is a thrill to it. There is something, I would like to think I'm a little better than Miles is. But like, there's an adrenaline rush. And if you attach the internet to that adrenaline rush, I think you get really bizarre behavior. And this is exactly what happens with Miles. Remember, he was supposed to become like a finance bro or whatever, but instead he becomes a YouTuber.

• 29:10Speaker 02

  What?

• 29:11Ryan Broderick?

  Which is equally damaging for the world. He brands himself a modern day Catholic adventurer and he also describes himself as a independent war journalist and he starts making videos that I don't know if you've ever come across this on YouTube, but there's a whole pocket of this kind of stuff that I would call like dark tourism or like, I don't know, like these, usually it's like white British guys who go to like the world's scariest place, you know, like the

• 29:40Speaker 02

  Like Vice used to do.

• 29:42Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah, but like, but even more racist than when Vice would do it.

• 29:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's for poverty porn.

• 29:47Ryan Broderick?

  Poverty porn, yeah. Like, this is the most, this is the country with the most murders on earth, you know, like.

• 29:53Speaker 02

  I'm gonna walk down the street with a watch on and see what happens.

• 29:56Ryan Broderick?

  Exactly, yeah. So he ends up going to Ukraine, specifically Chernobyl, which he goes to in 2019 also. Uh, he then starts raising money on GoFundMe, uh, to like, kind of like, help him go to Kazakhstan. Uh, he posts in January 2022, "On my way to Kazakhstan right now. Why? So I can be a little goofy, be a little silly perhaps, adventure around, all British like, get away from it all, a little lovely holiday, lads on tour."

• 30:24Speaker 02

  I'm confused about the like branding himself as a like Catholic boy, if I can go, you know what I'm saying? Like as soon as you, what? Maybe it was a part of his identity because he kept saying about how much he prayed and he had the cross out, etc. And it seems to be a big deal in England, I guess, like how you identify, but what's your theory?

• 30:42Ryan Broderick?

  I think it's like a trad thing. I think he's like trying to dog whistle to like racist religious people on the internet. Um, at the time he goes to Kazakhstan, it's not just for a lovely little holiday though, it's because this, the country has, is having like full on riots and he wants to like go film the riots. And he does his dark YouTube thing for a while and manages not to get himself kidnapped for over a year. Very impressive. Uh, and then in the spring of 2022, he starts teasing a big new project, which is almost certainly gonna get him kidnapped.

• 31:14Ryan Broderick?

  According to the Daily Mail at the time, he has been posting cryptic messages about his latest trip since at least mid-February, asking followers for donations so he can save 15 people's lives. He has kept details of the trip sparse, claiming he will be arrested otherwise. He had boasted that it would involve traveling through areas where kidnappings and suicide bombings are common and cycling through ISIS territory.

• 31:35Speaker 02

  Interesting too about like this sort of fake, like faux altruistic, like I'm gonna go rescue 15 people, you know, you become sort of like a prisoner to your own legend, you know what I'm saying? Like, it feels like a reference to the Sigma, you know?

• 31:53Ryan Broderick?

  Yes.

• 31:53Speaker 02

  Really believing in living the Sigma lifestyle that he thinks he is.

• 31:57Ryan Broderick?

  I think that's right. And just for our listeners who are trying to envision this kid, he is not like a masculine guy. He's like a little scrawny British white guy. But he eventually reveals that he has arrived in Pakistan. Once there, he reveals that he was trying to save his tour guide and the tour guide's family from the last time he was in Afghanistan, the guy who brought him to the safe house and negotiated his way out. But the tour guide decided that Miles's plan was too risky, probably because it was too risky, but Miles was angry about this. So Miles is in Pakistan, he's bitching online, he's posting photos of himself crying, like normal white British man behavior.

• 32:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:33Ryan Broderick?

  And then he posted an update, "This means I can't go on a date with a girl I really liked. It means I can't sponsor a joint adventure with my friend. I will go home to an empty room. I am at my end."

• 32:44Speaker 02

  Got it. Okay, dude. Sorry.

• 32:47Ryan Broderick?

  Pretty, pretty dramatic. Pretty dramatic.

• 32:51Speaker 02

  It is tantrum, isn't it? Like, it does feel like these dudes on the internet, particularly this younger generation, that are so like fucking gung ho, like fucking like love MMA and shit, like feels like a... They're very like, as soon as something goes wrong for them, it turns into a childlike tantrum. I've seen it a lot. It's so weird. It's just, man, but I wanted to do this. You know, like, what, bro? And like, just like completely unaware of like how it's coming off. Interesting.

• 33:23Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah, they're like ranting about like how like 80% of women go for 20% of men and you've got to be really hard and strong. And then they're like, they just start sobbing on TikTok when something goes mildly wrong.

• 33:33Speaker 02

  Dude.

• 33:34Ryan Broderick?

  Um, so after he has this little meltdown, um, he then announces that he's taking a rickshaw from Pakistan to Afghanistan.

• 33:39Speaker 02

  Oh, he just called, he, okay. So was a neon sign not available or like, was he, it was just like, hey, uh, way to give yourself away, bud. Okay.

• 33:50Ryan Broderick?

  Um, I'm heading over. He writes, tea with the Taliban. I'm in Afghanistan, walked into Taliban residency by accident. And after taking the food they gave me, tea, and even offered me to stay the night, they are so kind. He then says that he gets food poisoning from eating with the Taliban, but he doesn't blame the Taliban for accidentally giving him food poisoning. And then he makes a YouTube video called, I went shooting with the Taliban. Grant, why don't you explain what's happening in this video for our listeners who can't see it?

• 34:21Speaker 03

  So in the first 40 seconds, he's like, I'm going to go to a gun market with some mobsters and these guys in the Taliban.

• 34:27Speaker 04

  I'm in Afghanistan on forged documents, going to meet a black market gun runner.

• 34:33Speaker 04

  I'm also going to hang out with the Taliban.

• 34:35Speaker 03

  In there, he starts spreading some right wing conspiracies about how the UN is the Antichrist.

• 34:40Speaker 04

  And if you say you hate the Antichrist, they'll hunt you down somewhere. There they are.

• 34:45Speaker 03

  So, so, so now he's, he was originally going there to save people from the Taliban. And now he's like super pro Taliban. And then, um, he's on video shooting.

• 34:59Speaker 04

  Let's do some shooting with the Taliban.

• 35:00Speaker 03

  A very large gun. I don't know what fucking gun it is.

• 35:02Ryan Broderick?

  It's a big gun.

• 35:03Speaker 03

  Which he says remembers to the Taliban who look like the scariest men to be fair. And they are look terrified because he's so bad at holding a gun. They're like flinching every time. And he's like, can I shoot it again? And they're like, yes, white guy.

• 35:18Speaker 02

  I love that.

• 35:19Speaker 03

  So, uh.

• 35:20Speaker 02

  Please, please, no, please stop. Please, we value our lives. We need, we have some TikToks to post.

• 35:28Speaker 03

  So that is his rebrand of

• 35:30Speaker 02

  Crazy switch up.

• 35:32Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah, my my hunch here is that like, once he realized that like, the Taliban hate women as much as he probably does, like, everyone was like, oh, cool.

• 35:40Speaker 02

  Found a lot of common ground. Yeah.

• 35:42Ryan Broderick?

  Like, I think Andrew Tate and the Taliban probably have a lot in common in terms of what

• 35:45Speaker 02

  A hundred percent. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, it's a perfect, I mean, it's a perfect world if you are a misogynist dude, a misogynist yourself, right?

• 35:56Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah, I mean, I remember like during the Bush administration, there was like all kinds of people calling like, the Tea Party like white Al Qaeda. That was like a normal, you know, term.

• 36:06Speaker 02

  Remember how fucking like softball, like, just looking back how softball fucking Tea Party was?

• 36:11Ryan Broderick?

  I would love the Tea Party right now. Oh, God.

• 36:15Speaker 02

  I was thinking about this recently, like Mitt Romney's like campaign was kind of like derailed because he said, 50% of the country, they don't care about us. They're like, it was a shock. People were like, fuck you. I don't care about you. Jesus.

• 36:28Ryan Broderick?

  I would give anything for Mitt Romney to be president right now.

• 36:30Speaker 02

  I would, I would pay good money for Mitt Romney.

• 36:34Ryan Broderick?

  I would let Mitt Romney strap me to the roof of his car like he did his dog during the 2020 12 campaign, if it meant that he could be president instead of Trump right now. I happy.

• 36:41Speaker 02

  A hundred. I will bark for him. I don't give a fuck. Yes.

• 36:44Ryan Broderick?

  So, so.

• 36:46Speaker 02

  Okay, so he's shooting with the Taliban and they're looking scary and scared at the same time. Yep. Two things can be true.

• 36:53Ryan Broderick?

  And then Miles just seems to stay and chill in Afghanistan. Like, he's hanging out with his new buddies in the Taliban for seven months.

• 37:04Speaker 02

  Oh, my God, dude.

• 37:06Ryan Broderick?

  And he's making a bunch of pro Taliban content, just running around the country.

• 37:12Speaker 02

  You know how there's some dudes on like Instagram and shit that like, like to pick up like venomous snakes and shit? And it's like, oh, if this guy ever stops posting, I know why. It's exactly.

• 37:22Ryan Broderick?

  Exactly. Yeah. And this is where stuff gets like, I mean, everything that I think we've said today is strange, but this is where the story like really gets like really weird. So, in November 2022, a book is published titled Lord Miles in Afghanistan. And Vice like reviewed it at the time and they sort of described it as like, just like a book full of nonsense, like memes and racist garbage, pulled directly from 4chan. And the article writes, Rutledge said in his visa, said his visa required a personal statement explaining why he was entering the country. "My response was simply an A4 sheet of paper with the, with only the word fun written on it. It was accepted without question," he said in his book. "I was

• 38:05Ryan Broderick?

  ready for my very own white boy summer." Um, and you might be wondering like, you know, how did this book get published? It was published by a company called Antelope Hill Publishing, which basically only publishes Nazi propaganda.

• 38:19Speaker 02

  And every now and then a cookbook, thankful.

• 38:22Ryan Broderick?

  And then a cookbook, yeah, no.

• 38:23Speaker 02

  Every now and then a banana bread, uh, how to.

• 38:26Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah, well, I'm sure they're very interested in the global banana trade for sure.

• 38:30Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 38:31Ryan Broderick?

  Miles does have fans, right? And he loves to post. And it is giving him money. But then,

• 38:39Ryan Broderick?

  all of a sudden, Miles doesn't post for a real long time, which starts to raise suspicions that maybe his friends in the Taliban are no longer his friends. And in March 2023, so there was like a thing in 2023 where no one really knew if this account was legit or not. And it seems like it was. But basically, a Twitter account appeared in 2023 claiming to be the press department for the Taliban.

• 39:03Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 39:04Ryan Broderick?

  And I remember being like, that's weird. That's like really weird.

• 39:08Speaker 02

  But like, they definitely had like, they were definitely trying to sound young. What is up, my guys? Just TT checking in.

• 39:17Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah. And I remember like covering the story being like, I guess we're just gonna say according to the Taliban press department, like, I guess that's what we're gonna write. Um, and they, they announced that he is now a missing person. So the, the Taliban press department writes, in a post to the, uh, they're right, "It's with great sorrow to announce that we have lost contact with our beloved brother, Lord Miles Rutledge."

• 39:39Speaker 02

  What?

• 39:41Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah.

• 39:41Speaker 02

  Our beloved brother? Okay.

• 39:44Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah, I mean, he's gone, he's gone.

• 39:46Speaker 02

  How deep did he go? Oh, man.

• 39:48Ryan Broderick?

  He's gone over to the other side now. He's part of the Taliban, I guess. And reports started officially coming out that he was actually arrested by the Taliban in early March.

• 39:57Speaker 02

  A hundred percent. That's what it sounds like. Like, it's like, we love our good friends, who we would never hurt ever in our lives. And unfortunately, yeah, it's so weird. He just kind of like, I don't know, he he went on a hike. He said he'd be right back. If you guys have heard of from him, just please, we're worried about him.

• 40:14Ryan Broderick?

  So that's not even a joke. That is, that was one of the early explanations, was that like, he went hiking in a dangerous, like,

• 40:19Speaker 02

  No way.

• 40:20Ryan Broderick?

  I remember that, like, coming out.

• 40:22Speaker 02

  He went on a sock run? He was just claiming-

• 40:24Ryan Broderick?

  He didn't have enough socks.

• 40:25Speaker 02

  Really cold feet?

• 40:26Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah, his rickshaw disappeared in the, in the mountains between Afghanistan and Pakistan. Yeah, months go by. Finally, there's some official reports that start coming out that say that he was arrested. It's unclear why, but the Telegraph in the UK writes at the time, the official added that the group were were found partaking, so, "Rootages" Miles's group, were found partaking in suspicious activities and were being held with the Taliban's counterintelligence department in Kabul.

• 40:53Ryan Broderick?

  Miles's mother, Susan, told the Daily Mail about her distress, saying, "It is so worrying. I just want help to find out what happened to him and make sure he's okay. I am just desperate to know that he's safe. I don't know who is holding him or where he is." And then, a bunch more months go by, and finally, in the summer of 2023, he posts a photo of himself, just like, posing with Taliban fighters.

• 41:20Speaker 02

  And does he look, like, does it look like he's aged? Does it, does it feel like it's a, like, an old photo that they posted and like, "Hey, look, he's alive." Are they weekend at Bernie's-ing him? You know what I mean?

• 41:32Ryan Broderick?

  So what he, so weirdly enough, like, you would think that he would look like really fucked up from like, you know, essentially being like detained. Yeah, here, here's a photo. So, he doesn't look- Super fucked up from being detained by the Taliban for, you know, the better part of six months.

• 41:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, I guess what I'm saying is like, we know this is, I don't, I don't know what he looked like before, but like, this is a current photo when, when he posted it is.

• 41:55Ryan Broderick?

  So there was a lot of discussion about that. Yeah. I mean, he writes in this, uh, four months in Taliban custody.

• 42:02Ryan Broderick?

  What's really weird, yeah, yeah. So this is written from a friend of his. So it says, this is a friend of Lord Miles to give an update. Four months in Taliban custody. He's treated very well. He has several servants, loads of movies on his laptop, goes on picnics and has tea with the Taliban cabinet government. He still loves Afghanistan.

• 42:18Speaker 02

  Loads of servants, servants in jail?

• 42:21Ryan Broderick?

  Well, my read on this, you know, after kind of going through a lot of this stuff and at the time and, you know, put it, you know, having a researcher put it together for this episode, my take on this is essentially like he was under very nice house arrest. Because like they didn't know what the deal was with him because he's a weird fucking guy. Um, you know, they're like, well, he hates women as much as we do, but like he's putting all this stuff on YouTube.

• 42:45Speaker 02

  Carries a cross around and tells us, yeah, you cannot grow a beard properly.

• 42:50Ryan Broderick?

  Exactly. So he finally is free in October after, I mean, the better part of a year essentially in Taliban custody. So October 2023, he has like, he posts a whole thread as he's leaving, sort of talking about how he got arrested with a bunch of money in his pocket. But he's been living in luxury. He orders food, you know, he's playing video games, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. He gets out in October, the BBC reports he's free and he finds out that his Patreon's been shut down because now he's, uh, technically, I mean, he's technically an associate of terrorists and Patreon doesn't allow that. Um, and then.

• 43:28Speaker 02

  We draw the line.

• 43:29Ryan Broderick?

  And then I've been waiting for this to reveal all episode. Guess whose show he goes on to talk about how great the Taliban are?

• 43:37Speaker 02

  Andrew Tate.

• 43:38Ryan Broderick?

  You fucking know it.

• 43:39Speaker 02

  What?

• 43:40Ryan Broderick?

  Yep, yep.

• 43:41Speaker 02

  That's crazy.

• 43:43Ryan Broderick?

  Yes.

• 43:44Speaker 02

  And was this, how popular was Andrew Tate at the time?

• 43:47Ryan Broderick?

  This is 2023, so Andrew Tate is like-

• 43:50Speaker 02

  So it's on the rise, maybe?

• 43:51Ryan Broderick?

  No, so I don't know if Americans are super, like, people outside of the UK would be super familiar with this, but Andrew Tate found a, like, a hack inside of TikTok and was like the number one user on TikTok around 2023. That's how he got started. He, um, he built like a weird, like, referral program for like the horrible men that listen to his show to just like share clips of him on TikTok. And it was like a massive scandal in the UK because all of these major newspapers were like, who the fuck is this guy? And this was way before the human trafficking stuff came out. So like, he was just like this horrible UK influencer. So he's now connected with Lord Miles. And then Miles talks about how much he liked the Taliban, says he'll be returning again.

• 44:33Ryan Broderick?

  And, uh, basically just like talks about how great the Taliban and Andrew Tate are because all horrible men eventually sort of like become the same horrible man.

• 44:41Speaker 03

  Um, he, uh, he also said that the Taliban were super impressed that he knew Andrew Tate.

• 44:48Ryan Broderick?

  Fucking god.

• 44:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, so he calls him, uh, Talibros. And he says that, uh, he won over all the Talibros because they're such big fans of Andrew Tate. Uh, you know what? Here, here, take a listen.

• 45:00Speaker 04

  Who is this? I say, oh, that's, uh, it says, well, that Andrew Tate. We say, the top G? And I go, yeah, the top G. You know the top G? And they're like, yes, my friend, uh, you got this book signed by him. I'm like, mate, he's my acquaintance. I met him a few times. Lovely chap. I go, you know the top G? And I was like, absolutely, man. Check my WhatsApp right here. He's, he's right here. And they were like, whoa, can you, can you tell him I said hi? So I'm like, yeah. So, uh, so Iqbal says hi, mate. Iqbal says hi.

• 45:26Ryan Broderick?

  Hey, G.

• 45:27Speaker 02

  Dude.

• 45:28Ryan Broderick?

  Yes.

• 45:29Speaker 02

  Uh, he does- It's hard not to like, it's hard not to like, have a sense of hopelessness, isn't it?

• 45:34Ryan Broderick?

  (laughing)

• 45:36Speaker 02

  You know, like, it's just hard to not like, just stare at like, the general, like, the next generation and be like, what, dude? I'm just like, what? Like, you know, uh, it's, it's, yeah, I mean, everything, I, I believe everything's a balance and everything course corrects eventually, but man, it's just hard to like- Be you of the present that has to like, what? Like, what do you mean? Like, the real G, like, the Taliban bros loved it. It's just so fucking, I grew up in a time where, you know, the Taliban were the bad guys, right? Like, this is what, you know? Oh, man. Okay, cool. Yes, you're blowing my mind.

• 46:16Ryan Broderick?

  I still think, for the record, for our listeners, that the Taliban are bad. I want to make that clear that I'm not.

• 46:21Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, this is not in any way promotion, promotion for the Taliban.

• 46:25Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah. Well, we use Patreon, so I want Patreon representatives listening to this to know that we do not associate with the Taliban.

• 46:31Speaker 02

  Affiliation with the Taliban.

• 46:33Ryan Broderick?

  Miles eventually releases sort of a larger statement about all of this. It's totally in bad faith, like everything else he does, but he says, basically, I had banter with the Taliban, and at the end of the day, they're, they're, they are a bunch of fun-loving blokes. One day, we had a water fight. Another day, we played volleyball. Once I chased them around with some, like, of their AK-47s. They chased me around with a PKM, you know, just typical holiday stuff. And he maintains to this day that, like, he had a great time in, in prison in Afghanistan. And now, just to the coda here, you know, before we spin out and sort of take a wider

• 47:14Ryan Broderick?

  lens, it's just like, he is still doing this shit. Like, he, he, he, like, went to Brooklyn once to, like, film, like, you know, poorer neighborhoods and say it was more dangerous than Afghanistan. He's, like, made this his brand. And sort of like, I mean, that's his full-time thing now, is just, like, traveling around the world, being racist and annoying, and like, he can now always say, well, it's worse here than Afghanistan, blah, blah, blah.

• 47:39Speaker 02

  That's his, like, catchphrase. Jesus. Okay. Yeah, because I was gonna ask what, what his life is like now. And, and I'm not surprised, but I'm also like, what? You know, like, also...

• 47:53Speaker 03

  Today, he sells Taliban hoodies.

• 47:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's right. They go all the way.

• 47:57Speaker 03

  That's not a joke.

• 47:57Speaker 02

  It's not a joke.

• 47:59Speaker 03

  That's literally an ad in, in his videos. He sells video, he, he sells footage of him working out with the Taliban, and then, like, Taliban, like, labeled hoodies of them lifting weights.

• 48:12Speaker 04

  Do you want to be put on a watch list? Maybe get Ailey probed at airports? Scare away all the hoes? Well, I just have the thing for you. Do you remember the Taliban hoodie from a previous video? Now I'm selling it. They even come to the Taliban sticker, aw.

• 48:27Speaker 02

  And here's the thing, like Afghanistan culture is beautiful. And I'm not just saying that like,

• 48:32Ryan Broderick?

  100% agree.

• 48:33Speaker 02

  I'm not just saying that to like, just so you guys know, I'm not hating on Afghan. No, I'm, I'm saying that it's, it's culture. They, they speak pure Farsi. It's like a beautiful, it's not the same as saying the Taliban. So the country itself is also beautiful. So, uh, you know, uh, all I'm saying is like, this guy is probably, I'm sure there's moments where he had fun if he wasn't such a fuckhead. And if these guys were in like, complete, uh, terrible fucking terrorist organization, you know? There, some of the customs I'm sure were great, but not within the scope of the Taliban. The Taliban is what ruined the culture of Afghanistan, you know? Not ruined it, but you know what I'm saying? At least oppressed it to the point where it's unrecognizable from the greatness that it is.

• 49:18Ryan Broderick?

  You touched on something I think really important here, which is that like, there is value, I think, in going to, let's, let's like, for total simplicity's sake, let's say like, dangerous areas of the global south that don't get a lot of coverage. I think that like, as a journalist, that is really important. I get very angry though, at the idea that like, this fuckhead is getting egged on by the internet to do it this way. Like, like,

• 49:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 49:47Ryan Broderick?

  There's something like very dark to me about like, mixing like geopolitics, deep global inequality and like YouTube traffic together. And you end up with this, basically.

• 49:59Speaker 02

  And it's a wasted sort of like access, right?

• 50:03Ryan Broderick?

  Totally.

• 50:03Speaker 02

  Somebody like, this is such an interesting access to have objectively, right? Without taking it, like, leave the morality aside for a second of like, wow, you got to live inside of, or you were arrested by the Taliban. You got to live with them. You gotta, like, what, that's a, it's an interesting perspective to learn from. But because he's shaping it around this sort of a vapid, uh, full macho

• 50:26Ryan Broderick?

  Right.

• 50:27Speaker 02

  lens, it's, it's like, whatever lesson there, there was to learn about what, what life is like there now is wasted, right? Or?

• 50:35Ryan Broderick?

  The, the thing you sort of said earlier about like the hopelessness of young people right now, which I think is a, a key part of this, which is that like, We've reached a point with like, young people on the internet right now, where so many of the taboos that you and I grew up with about sort of like, who is bad and who is good in the world, or like, how you're supposed to sort of treat, you know, something as serious as a military withdrawal during a war zone. Like, all of these things have gone out the window, because they're just another thing you see in your computer screen. And that to me, like, that flattening of reality just feels very-

• 51:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I understand the desensitization of a culture, right? Like, once you're, you just live online and you're just, it's, there's definitely a disassociation here-

• 51:18Ryan Broderick?

  Yes.

• 51:18Speaker 02

  -of what reality is and like, what real life consequences are. And again, not to be on this soapbox about like, wow, young people these days, there's incredible, Gen Z has produced some incredible thinkers and people that are, have interest in helping humanity. The thing is, this, this is where I find some hopelessness, right? And also that there's a, there's a sense of like, man, you don't, I guess pity is the wrong word, but you're like, man, like, there's so much potential wasted, because, again, like, we're talking about with this guy, right? Such an interesting, such a brave thing to do, going into a war zone, usually.

• 51:58Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah.

• 51:58Speaker 02

  But doing it for fucking, I don't know, just like, as a prank, and like, then just like, using it to like, spout your fucking chauvinistic shit, then, it's just a waste, I guess.

• 52:11Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah, it's, it's very hard to travel the world and remain a giant racist shithead, I'd like to believe. It's not impossible, but-

• 52:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, and also, it's just, it's just they bought into this thing. And another, you know, I did a show with Joseph Gordon-Levitt, and, who's an incredible fucking man and-

• 52:36Ryan Broderick?

  Huge Andrew Tate fan, massive Andrew Tate fan.

• 52:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, massive, and that's the kicker, he loves Andrew Tate. Nobody's a very, he's a big intellectual, and, and he, he made a really interesting point to me once, and it's like, it used to be, back in the, back in the olden day, I'm talking about a hundred plus years ago, if you were born, if you were born, you've never graduated, you hardly ever graduated from the- Economic status in which you were born, right?

• 53:01Ryan Broderick?

  Right.

• 53:02Speaker 02

  If you were born working class, you probably lived working class. If you were born, you know, underprivileged, you probably stayed underprivileged. But then what's been happening in the past like 20, 30, 40 years or whatever, or particularly since the, in the age of the internet, is that you like, you can go from being nobody to a millionaire in a few days flat. Because you say like, Hak Tua or whatever, you know. No hate on her, but no, but no hate on her. I'm like, fuck it. Yeah, that's fine. Like, something about your personality captured, whatever. I'm just talking about the phenomenon, right? That it doesn't like, you can switch your status from morning to, from, uh, from, uh, from, from day to day. And if it's not happening for you, you, you think that you're, that you think you're entitled to that.

• 53:46Speaker 02

  You think like, fuck it, I need my big, I need to make this splash on this world. And when it's not happening for you, then you need to blame somebody other than yourself. You need to, if somebody goes like, hey, man, you know, the reason why you're not fucking killing it? Like, all these, nobody fucking sat, sat them down, told them because your ideas are shit. Like, if you're trying to fucking do it, like, you put out a product that's not good. If you make the product good enough, you know, somebody's like, it's not, it's somebody else's fault. And that's sort of, it creates a pocket of disillusionment that, that is then filled by this, is my theory. It's then filled with this rhetoric that is easy to blame outside and be like, it's unfair on me. As opposed to taking accountability and seeing that it's, um, there's possible tracks towards achieving your dream.

• 54:31Ryan Broderick?

  I think that's really the lesson here, which is that like, we need to tell more people that their ideas are fucking shit. And they need to stop.

• 54:39Speaker 02

  Because that's, but, but, but, but that's how you learn, right? Like, that's how you like, learned, like, bro, like, I'm an actor, dude. Like, it's like, the amount of fucking no's I've heard in my life. You know, I, I used to say this, but like, fucking, most people go through, what? Maybe, let's say, 30 job interviews in their life. Let's say 50, fuck it, right? I used to go through 50 a month, dude, you know, of which, like, maybe I got one. And like, you know, but, so maybe I'm coming from a perspective of, you know, I, I was a New York dude and I knew, I had the hustle in me and, you know. But there's just, the shortcuts that people expect and are disillusioned by, uh, when they don't exist,

• 55:23Speaker 02

  are a little delusional, I think.

• 55:25Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah.

• 55:25Speaker 02

  But anyway. Sorry about ranting about it.

• 55:29Ryan Broderick?

  You don't have to apologize. A lot of the guests on our show, they start ranting because of something horrible we've shown them from the internet. It's totally a normal reaction.

• 55:39Speaker 02

  I'm definitely panicking.

• 55:41Ryan Broderick?

  We got you. Welcome to Panic World, baby. I want to thank you for coming on. This was excellent. This was, this was as fun as a conversation about something like this could be. Would you have anything new coming up you want to plug? And you know?

• 55:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, I have a, let me take a little second. I want to thank you for having me and also like, fuck you for depressing me. But, uh, yeah, you should check out my podcast if you're into history. It's called Greatest Escapes. And we have incredible guests on, including Andrew Tate, loving Joseph Gordon-Levitt, apparently.

• 56:16Ryan Broderick?

  Panic World is a Garbage Day production. Subscribe to the newsletter at garbage day dot email. Panic World is written and produced by Grant Irving. It's hosted by me, Ryan Broderick. Our amazing researcher is Adam Bumis. It's engineered by Rebecca Seidel. Our deranged logo was created by Gabby Cash. Please give us $5 at patreon.com/panicworld. Please give us products to sell by contacting multitude@multitude-production/adz. For any other way you would like to give us money, or work with us, or promote us, or become financially entangled with us, you can reach out to our fixer, our wonderful bad man, Josh Fielstad, and you can reach him at [email protected]. And one piece of advice from me to you, chill

• 56:59Ryan Broderick?

  out, touch grass while you still can.

• 57:06Speaker 02

  And he had a history of making like fake guns from like soap. He like escaped from a court once because he held up the judge with a fake gun made out of soap.

• 57:15Ryan Broderick?

  History of like making fake weapons. I feel like they shouldn't have believed the grenades that time. Like this guy has like a pattern of this behavior.

• 57:24Speaker 02

  Also, all the love to my French friends. I love them to death. But you know, these guards are like, they don't give, like, I'm just saying, like, you know, they're like, I don't know. Sometimes life escapes you. I don't, you know, I just like, I feel like there's, it's not this sort of like military core dream, like, I'm gonna stop the bad guy. You know, it's a little more like, I'm not gonna fucking die today. And I don't blame him. So I think that's what I would say. Yeah.