BONUS: One or two hot takes on One Battle After Another

(SPOILER ALERT!) Grant hosts Ryan on his podcast to share their thoughts on One Battle After Another and what it says about the current state of the US, dads, Gen X, and compare its political commentary to Eddington and Weapons. Check out the whole conversation on our Patreon — as well as ad-free episodes, bonuses, and other exclusives — and get the first month for just $0.50 with code PANICYEAR at ⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/PanicWorld⁠⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  LinkedIn is pretty amazing at helping you grow your small business. We cannot stop your new clients from emailing you at 3 a.m.

• 0:09Speaker 00

  We can help you sell, market, and hire in one place. We cannot help you be in three places at once. And while we can't help you organize your calendar, LinkedIn can help you land more clients so you have a calendar to organize. Grow your small business on LinkedIn. Learn more at LinkedIn.com/smallbusiness.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  So Ryan, let me ask you. Why is your shirt so tight?

• 0:34Ryan Broderick?

  I don't do tight shirts anymore because they're for millennials who I hate.

• 0:39Speaker 01

  Come on. No, no. Why is your... Ask me why my shirt's so tight.

• 0:42Ryan Broderick?

  Well, your shirt's tight because you've got some sort of psychosexual thing going on. You know, you're really...

• 0:46Speaker 01

  I'm not a homosexual if that's what you think. I'm... I'm not a queer.

• 0:50Ryan Broderick?

  I don't think that. I think it's the opposite, actually. I feel like...

• 0:54Speaker 01

  Wait, we're here to talk about One Battle After Another.

• 0:56Ryan Broderick?

  I know, but I thought you maybe wanted to talk through some of your body issue stuff first.

• 1:01Speaker 01

  But it's the funniest line in the movie, Ryan.

• 1:05Ryan Broderick?

  Is it? I didn't think... I mean, it's pretty funny, but it's not my favorite line.

• 1:08Speaker 01

  What was your favorite line?

• 1:09Ryan Broderick?

  I don't know. I enjoyed Leonardo DiCaprio's use of the word "homie."

• 1:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15Ryan Broderick?

  I also, I thought everything Benito del Toro does is perfect. Amazing.

• 1:37Speaker 01

  I'm Grant Irving, the host when Ryan wants to talk about movies. This is Panic World, a show about how the internet warps our mind, our culture, and eventually reality. And that's the first time I did that without it being right in front of me. Joining me today, a guy I call Sensei, Ryan Broderick.

• 1:53Ryan Broderick?

  Hello. Thank you for having me on my show.

• 1:57Speaker 01

  I am thrilled to say people seem to like us talking about movies, which is really just what we want to do. And we both saw One Battle After Another. And fuck yeah, man. Let's go.

• 2:08Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah, no, I felt like we needed to immediately record something about One Battle After Another. It fits perfectly into the sort of like weird America I've seen the term used type of 2020s filmmaking happening right now. A lot of our listeners wanted us to talk about sinners. You and I will not be talking about sinners. Perhaps we can get... You know, some more thoughtful guests on a bonus episode about sinners, but no, I think the world does not need you and me sitting down to talk about it. Although I will throw, before we get any deeper, I will throw my, my top line take on sinners out right now, which is that you could

• 2:47Speaker 01

  You're doing the, you're doing the Eddington teenager thing.

• 2:50Ryan Broderick?

  I saw, I saw people say that we should, we should watch sinners and I, I'll throw this out, which is the, the beauty of sinners is its hyper specificity. But also you could kind of do sinners at any point in history with any marginalized group. Like you could easily do a version of sinners that where like a Pete Buttigieg, like gay was outside of like a hyper pop, like trans rave in Bushwick. You could like easily do that with like almost every marginalized group that exists. So like that's the genius of sinners to me is that like it is, it is so specific, but it's also very universal. I would also like to watch a movie about the, uh, the Native American vampire hunters and sinners. I would, I would

• 3:33Ryan Broderick?

  watch a whole other movie about that. Anyways, uh, I thought like we should absolutely jump on real quick to talk about one battle after another, which feels very in conversation with weapons and very in conversation with Eddington. In fact, I would, I would sort of argue that it's just everything Eddington's doing is doing better and is like a better movie. I think part of that is because it takes place 10 years in the future. So they can get a little, a little fantastical with some of his stuff, but yeah, everything Eddington wants to be one battle after another just does like effortlessly in my

• 4:04Speaker 01

  Really? I thought it, I thought it started in the aughts and then was, was today. I didn't think it was actually set in the future.

• 4:15Ryan Broderick?

  You can read it a couple of ways.

• 4:17Speaker 01

  Okay. So it is not, it's not

• 4:18Ryan Broderick?

  We'll talk about this. So the prologue ends with Prophidia basically escaping witness protection. And then you see her put on a mask to cross the Mexican border. And then she comes over the voiceover and says 16 years later, nothing happens. I mean, that effect. So.

• 4:37Speaker 01

  Not much has changed.

• 4:38Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah, you could read the movie taking place in 2026, let's say. And all of that's compressed, the timeline's a little wonky, but the stuff later in the movie, particularly involving the far right, uh, cult of Saint Nicholas or whatever, and some of the job titles they're throwing around, I think actually make more sense. Also, the fact that in this movie, ICE no longer exists as a specific arm of like, police, it's just police. I, I, I think the movie actually makes more sense to read it as like 10 years down the timeline we're on now. That's how I read it. I think you're right. I think it does take place. It starts in the mid 2000s.

• 5:22Ryan Broderick?

  I think she's in witness protection for a while. She escapes in 2020. The movie picks up in 2036. That, that, that's sort of, I think that makes the most sense in how you would read the movie.

• 5:31Speaker 01

  I like that read. So, I think this is a movie that instead of just like describing characters, we can, like, it is a very linear movie.

• 5:43Ryan Broderick?

  It's pretty straightforward.

• 5:44Speaker 01

  So, so let's want to just take it section by section and I'll let me do.

• 5:48Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah, so the pro, the prologue follows the French 75, and who are, I think, a very smart mashup of like Occupy Wall Street, Anonymous, early Black Lives Matter. They're like a radical group, specifically targeting immigration detention facilities. Very clever, very smart. They start to splinter as things become more intense. They do like one last job kind of thing. That's like a dumb robbery. They all get got, except for Leonardo DiCaprio's character. The ostensible leader of the group, although we can talk kind of about the group structure later, because I think that's interesting. Perfidia, Beverly Hills, she gets put in witness protection because she has like a weird.

• 6:34Ryan Broderick?

  Sexual relationship with Sean Penn, who's kind of working his way up. You know, something like ICE.

• 6:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, Sean Penn like is like the basically runs the ICE facility. When they're, when they're freeing the migrants. You know, the seat, the movie opens, it's fucking epic with, with them plotting to, to, to free this detention camp. And Profidia is keeping the, the leader at bay, a, a Mr. Stephen Lockjaw, played by Sean Penn.

• 7:08Speaker 01

  And while he's at gunpoint and in there sort of like trash talking. She tells him to get it up. And we, uh. We see true love spark. It becomes very clear in that moment that he's going to be obsessed with her in a way that. Is undefinable and creepy.

• 7:32Ryan Broderick?

  I hated all of this. I hate this. In fact, it's probably, it's the part of the movie where like I genuinely hate. I also think.

• 7:42Speaker 01

  Wait, say why?

• 7:43Ryan Broderick?

  I just, I think it's dumb. I think it's so dumb. I think it's, it's part of the larger issue with all these movies. And like how they do not understand or have any sense of how to handle like the Black Lives Matter. Element of like modern American activism and stuff. I hate it. I think it's so dumb. I also think like the movie has to do a lot of work to tap dancer on the fact that like. A much more politically relevant film would have just flipped the entire thing. That it should actually be Leonardo DiCaprio's character that is like the rat. Like it is, it is so like, there's a bunch of Hollywood shit in this movie that like, I think really gets in the way of it. It's fine. I love the movie, but if we're talking about it as sort of like a political thing. All this shit is so dumb to me. Sean Penn's character, fine, but the whole.

• 8:29Ryan Broderick?

  It gets especially stupid when like Sean Penn later in the movie is like going on a whole monologue about how great perfidia is. It's it's like it's part it's part of the Eddington problem to like Hollywood just cannot handle the racial optics of taking something like Black Lives Matter seriously. And it's just like a constant problem with these movies. Um, so I have, I hate it. I think it's so stupid. I, and I, and I think like

• 8:55Speaker 01

  Do you hate it in that moment?

• 8:57Ryan Broderick?

  Stupid. Oh, yeah, no, I think it's, I think everything with the daughter and Sean Penn is stupid. That whole plotline is stupid. I think it's, I, I, it's like I said, it's a great movie. I love the movie. I think like we talked about on the weapon, the Wappington episode. Trying to nail the psychosexual element of the American far right, which I think is admirable. I just think Hollywood is not equipped for it. Like I, I think it is so stupid to be like, oh, this ICE agent is in love with this black activist. It's like fuck yourself. Like the movie makes more sense as a self-insert for Paul Thomas Anderson and sort of like his anxieties about like not being relevant anymore. But like all the shit with perfidia and Sean Penn's character. I was like, this sucks.

• 9:38Ryan Broderick?

  Like, and it's, it's not gonna, and it's not gonna age well at all. I think it's, I think it's a mess, but personally.

• 9:44Speaker 01

  I think I was just so taken by their performances. So we should probably go break it down a little bit more before, before we. So she's the leader. Leonardo DiCaprio plays Pat slash ghetto Pat, who is just kind of like the least important member, but he's like, he like a

• 10:02Ryan Broderick?

  He's the bomb guy.

• 10:03Speaker 01

  He's the bomb guy. He's not the strategic guy. He definitely has radical politics, but I think it become, it's like you see in those early scenes that he's just obsessed and in love with her and kind of in awe of her. And like

• 10:17Ryan Broderick?

  Right.

• 10:18Speaker 01

  And like, he is down for the cause, but he's really down to like be the sidekick of, of this wannabe revolutionary leader.

• 10:31Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah, he, he has, I mean, he's, he's a very interesting character. Like ignoring my sort of gripes with how the movie is set up, like he's a really interesting character, especially after the time skip. I think he is a very good portrait of like an Occupy guy. You know, like a younger Gen X guy who gets caught up in revolutionary politics and like, let's say the early 2000s and kind of knows when it's time to tap out, but he's now surrounded by people who do not.

• 11:03Ryan Broderick?

  And we can come back to sort of the, the, the interesting parallels, especially later in the movie between like Anonymous and Occupy and the French 75, because I think there, I think it is kind of a fascinating thing they start to do later in the movie. But yeah, his character is interesting. And I think Perfidia's character is like, well, well drawn as well. You get the impression that she is sort of raised in a family of black revolutionaries, like made to think that she is like part of the black revolutionary movement and she will continue to be. And then the movie like, has like the decision in it that I, I just think is so stupid and I, it's fine, whatever, uh, where she sells out the French 75 and then the movie takes, you know, then we, then the actual movie starts.

• 11:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, so let, let me just fill that gap in.

• 11:51Speaker 01

  Pat and Perfidia have a child. He's like, you know, let's, let's ease it up so we don't end up in prison while we're supposed to be raising our daughter.

• 12:05Speaker 01

  It is very clear that she is restless and that is not what she's into.

• 12:12Speaker 01

  So the remaining members of the French 75,

• 12:18Speaker 01

  set a bomb to go off after hours in a court building and it becomes clear that Lockjaw, Sean Penn's character is stalking her. And then there's the real desperate one last job where they're robbing a bank to fund their revolution. And she, a security guard keeps moving and she, and Perfidia shoots him, um, which,

• 12:47Speaker 01

  Did he did such a good job of every time there was gunshots or violence? It did not feel cool at all. It felt loud and and horrible in a way that it rarely does in movies. But then it's followed by one of the coolest car chases. I've seen in a movie. But perfidia gets captured and

• 13:10Speaker 01

  is is beat up from this chase and Lockjaw visits her in the hospital and is like, you go to jail for the rest of your life or possibly die. Or you rat at all your friends. And and you also have to admit that you love me. And

• 13:29Ryan Broderick?

  So stupid. I just think it's so fucking dumb, man.

• 13:34Speaker 01

  It is. It is definitely the least developed part of the

• 13:38Ryan Broderick?

  The whole movie works so much better without it. Like, if you just take all that shit out, you can still make her a rat if you want to, which I think, once again, politically makes no sense. And then, like,

• 13:48Speaker 01

  Say, say why it doesn't make sense. Because I like the, I really like the the father daughter relationship of it all. I did. I don't need the Sean. We're obviously we're spoiling this whole movie. I didn't need the DNA test. Think of it.

• 14:03Ryan Broderick?

  That was dumb. No, I, I, well, this is the problem. Like, this is why the movie works better as a movie than Eddington. And also the problem with trying to do these kinds of movies set against the backdrop of these kind of politics. Which is that, like, the real life versions that they're playing with are still happening. Like, we talked about this on Weppington. Where like the

• 14:24Speaker 01

  You're doing a great job of saying of saying Weppington. And each time, each time I think you're gonna mess it up and I'm, you're just, you're a pro. I'm just proud of you.

• 14:31Ryan Broderick?

  On weapons, I think the movie succeeds so well because it has like abstracted all this stuff up a couple of layers. So like, the movie, I think you could watch it 50 years from now and be like, yeah, that's great. Okay, I totally get it. And then if you watch it right now, you're like, oh, this is like really like this is really hitting on some stuff. One battle after another, I think is is a better movie. Trying to tell a father daughter story against this kind of backdrop. Makes things really complicated. It's like that George R. Martin quote about like every time you make like one creative decision, it creates like a million avenues that you have to go down. Like the fact that they've set it up this way, you have to do something about the wife.

• 15:15Ryan Broderick?

  So yeah, you could kill her off. You could make her the rat, which I think the racial politics of are strange. And like the message there is a little odd too. They clearly wanted some sort of interpersonal relationship between Sean Penn's character and Leo and the daughter. And so like this is, this was the, this was the solution. And I just think it's dumb because like it, it is so politically fraught and like strange. And it creates all sorts of other problems down the line, further into the movie. And I get the impulse and I'm not going to like script doctor, like this movie that's absolutely going to be get Oscars. But

• 15:59Speaker 01

  As it should.

• 16:01Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah, but yeah, it's a great movie, but there are issues, particularly in, in, in the prologue and the transition into the main movie that you, you have to do something with to make it a satisfying film. And later on, like the politics start to get really strange.

• 16:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, I didn't mind the read of her affair with Lockjaw as a political tactic, but that falls apart when she becomes the rat. If, if it was like, if like she's this ends justify the means for the revolution, for the revolution character. Like I can use this guy, like that's cool. And like, and if there was, and if they were to do a like, Leo is getting jealous of it, but like, she's like, I care more about this revolution than I care about you. We're kind of in, in like a, um, indoor territory.

• 16:59Speaker 01

  And I think that's really interesting, but I'm making her the rat. Um, which is also just like,

• 17:08Speaker 01

  I kinda liked it because it is humanizing in a way that like all of us are down for a lot of causes, but when it comes to actually our lives being on the line, like who was actually brave?

• 17:18Ryan Broderick?

  The optics, the, the ramifications of making that choice where like you could have just is easily been like, oh, we got her and we have all their communications and now we know who they all are and we're going to come get them. Like the symbolism of it is bad. Yeah. To make the most outspoken black female character in the movie. Now there are, there are, I want to get away from the prologue. One, because I hate it and two, there's just more interesting stuff in the rest of the movie. But like, like Sean, things become more interesting when we, when we come back with to Regina Hall's character, who I'm so glad is back. I love Regina Hall because like the whole sort of interplay between Regina Hall's character and perfidia Tiana Taylor's character is interesting as well later in the movie, although the ending of with Regina Hall's character is like also problematic

• 18:03Ryan Broderick?

  because once again, like Hollywood does not know what to do with Black Lives Matter. They don't, they, they clearly don't understand, like I am not like an expert on Black Lives Matter, but I did cover it. I was like, I, I, I was part of like conversations in newsrooms trying to force editors to take it seriously to cover. Um, but like at the time, but like clearly like Hollywood just does not know what to do with it.

• 18:27Speaker 01

  What were editors saying at the time?

• 18:29Ryan Broderick?

  Well, most Gen X editors who I was working for have the exact attitude that this movie has, which is that like protest movements are inherently stupid and do not matter and we shouldn't bother covering them.

• 18:40Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, 10 out of 10. That's just, that's born out to be true.

• 18:44Ryan Broderick?

  Sure. Yeah, I agree. I agree. That's right. We now live in a universe of protest movements, but like, that don't matter. Right? So like, no, it's just like, it's so, this movie has like this, like really noxious Gen X streak throughout it that like comes up several times in ways that like scramble the movie in a really weird way. And like, once again, I really love this movie. That's why I want to get the hell away from this prologue so I can enjoy talking about it because I hate it. I hate it.

• 19:11Speaker 01

  I think we have successfully, because you've hated it so much, we had to do a lot more teasing out to get to the, to the why and not just you're being angry. I think we've successfully done that.

• 19:22Ryan Broderick?

  Ugly thing.

• 19:22Speaker 01

  We can now, 16 years later.

• 19:25Ryan Broderick?

  You're now firmly in the part of the movie that to me reminds you the most of one of the one of the wildest, most slept on movies of the modern era, which is Southland Tales. Um, and I want to talk about that forever. Southland Tales, by the way, if you've never seen it.

• 19:40Speaker 01

  All right. It's gonna be the next movie we're gonna do, because I've

• 19:42Ryan Broderick?

  Absolutely not. We are, I mean, we could. There's some really interesting shit in that movie.

• 19:46Speaker 01

  I've not seen it. So if you're

• 19:47Ryan Broderick?

  So it's, it's, it's by Richard Kelly. It was his follow up to Donnie Darko. And it is the most batshit insane movie that has, that basically ruined his career. It stars The Rock as like a

• 19:59Speaker 01

  Kelly, what do you mean? We're not gonna do it. It has the next president in it. Come on.

• 20:04Ryan Broderick?

  It's insane, but it is very similar in tone and sort of depiction of the future. That, uh, one battle after another does. Because like, particularly the, the best sequence in the movie, which is the, uh, the sort of like, not even chase sequence, but like, uh, the, the sequence where Leonardo DiCaprio is basically trying to get out of the city as Sean Penn's forces are moving in. That massive like 20 minute musical sequence is like the, one of the greatest things in film I've seen this year.

• 20:35Speaker 01

  Do you mean when, when he realizes that perfidio was arrested? Like in the, or the, or the

• 20:40Ryan Broderick?

  No, no, no. Like in the, like the major set piece of the movie, like where he, they, they are, they're, they're, the, uh, the ICE agents or whatever are descending on the town. And they're, they're basically using

• 20:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 20:51Ryan Broderick?

  They're, they're using like a roundup as a pretext to find Leonardo DiCaprio's character. And like, that, that's where you get the really interesting political stuff happening in the movie, because you, you basically get this picture of, uh, Ghetto Pat as this bumbling idiot. Who, because of his like, sort of like naive belief in the revolution has allowed Benicio de Torres' character to quote unquote, do some do some Harriet Tubman shit. And like, that's where the movie is like firing, like the, that sequence is in my mind. Like the, the movie is worth it for that alone.

• 21:31Speaker 01

  So let me, let me just connect the dots in case people, apparently people listen to this before watching movies.

• 21:40Ryan Broderick?

  That's crazy. Don't do that. Watch the movie first.

• 21:43Speaker 01

  Okay. The rest of the conversation is on the Patreon. I'm so sorry to tell you that, but the Patreon is basically free right now. Go to patreon.com/panicworld, use the code PANICYEAR and celebrating that we've been around for one whole year. Wild. And yeah, you for 50 cents can listen to the rest of this along with a bunch of other stuff and make me feel good. My self-esteem is entirely dependent on Patreon numbers. Do with that what you will. Just know that. Patreon.com/panicworld, code PANICYEAR. Thank you.

• 22:21Ryan Broderick?

  Panic World is a production of Courier. It is written and produced by Grant Irving and hosted by me, Ryan Broderick. Josh Fialsted is our production coordinator and our amazing researcher is Adam Bumis. From Courier is Shane Verkest, who edits our video episodes along with our producer, Devin Maroney, and National Managing Director and Executive Producer, Kevin Dreyfus. R.C. DeMezzo is their VP of Brand and Social. Charlotte Robinson is their Deputy Director of Brand and Social. Mary Ann Couga is their Director of Marketing. YouTube and Podcast Growth Marketer, Samantha Hallows. And Tracy Kaplan is the Senior Vice President of Sales at Distribution. If you want to sponsor the show or give us products to sell, she's the one to talk to. You can email her at [email protected]. Be sure to

• 23:06Ryan Broderick?

  check out the Panic World YouTube channel, which you can find at youtube.com/at/panicworldpod. And please give us some nice ratings on podcast apps and leave a funny review. Lastly, here's my advice for you. Chill out and touch grass while you still can.

• 23:25Speaker 00

  LinkedIn is pretty amazing at helping you grow your small business. We cannot stop your new clients from emailing you at 3 a.m. We can help you sell, market, and hire in one place. We cannot help you be in three places at once. And while we can't help you organize your calendar, LinkedIn can help you land more clients so you have a calendar to organize. Grow your small business on LinkedIn. Learn more at linkedin.com/smallbusiness.