BONUS: Does the left really need a Kyle Rittenhouse?

Ryan and Grant talk about the fallout from Luigi Mangione's alleged assassination of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson, and whether or not it will have ripple effects in this political climate. Want to hear the full episode? Sign up for a membership at: https://www.patreon.com/PanicWorld Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Ryan, what is your favorite piece of erotic fanfiction?

• 0:04Ryan Broderick?

  I came across a network on Amazon a few years ago that was writing erotic fanfic about Chinese President Xi Jinping, head of the Communist Party in China, and I thought that was pretty good. It seemed respectful and somewhat passionate in a way that I was surprised by.

• 0:24Speaker 00

  So I know you have read all three of these, so I want you to tell me your favorite. One, "The United Healthcare CEO Assassin Finds a Safe Haven in You After His Crimes." He knew you'd welcome him with open arms and open legs. Two, "Luigi Meets the Love of His Life at McDonald's. Read What Happens Next." Three, "You Are the Trial Lawyer Assigned to Luigi Mangione's Case. You Keep Your Distance, Making Sure It's Professional, Despite Finding Your Client Very Handsome." Which was your favorite of the three?

• 1:03Ryan Broderick?

  I'm excited to talk about my pet peeve around talking about fanfiction and how I hate it, actually. I find it extremely tedious, and I'm excited to finally get into this. So no, I have not read any of those.

• 1:32Speaker 00

  Today, we are talking about the media storm and budding class war following the killing of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson on December-

• 1:39Ryan Broderick?

  Wait, what happened?

• 1:40Speaker 00

  I'm Grant Irving. This is a Panic Room Bonus. Joining me today, the host of the show, your true crime podcast bestie, your favorite erotic fanfic writer-

• 1:51Ryan Broderick?

  That's right.

• 1:52Speaker 00

  Ryan Broderick.

• 1:53Ryan Broderick?

  Hello. Thank you for having me on my show.

• 1:55Speaker 00

  I opened with a fanfic because it's funny, but also because it shows the real dichotomy we have going on in our new internet age. And I want to talk about killing and fanfic and a new, a paper or two that has spread some words about this. And I want to do that all after a very quick break.

• 2:20Speaker 00

  Do you remember your reaction when you heard the news of Brian Thompson's death on December 4?

• 2:26Ryan Broderick?

  Yes, at that time, I was like, if they don't catch this guy, this is gonna go down as like one of the great crimes in American history. It's now entered a new sort of phase for me where it will go down as one of the great trials probably in American history. The Gen Z OJ Simpson trial, if you will. That's kind of where I'm at at the moment.

• 2:50Speaker 00

  How would you describe the initial reaction in the media and the initial reaction online from the shooting through the manhunt?

• 2:59Ryan Broderick?

  I was actually uncomfortable. I mean, at first, it was obviously funny, but it is uncomfortable. And I put it in my wait and see pile for reporting and garbage day stuff because there wasn't really a lot to go on. And then I believe over that weekend, we got the drip drop of like the bag full of Monopoly money and the defend, dispose, whatever. Deny whatever.

• 3:25Speaker 00

  Deny, defend and depose.

• 3:27Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah, bullet shell casings. We were still sort of getting pieces of his schedule. So there wasn't a ton to go on and after many years of doing this job, I just sort of was like, I'll come back to this when everyone knows what's going on.

• 3:43Speaker 00

  What would you say the internet, when the bullet casings or whatever were found? What kind of, what did the internet project the killer's ideology to be?

• 3:55Ryan Broderick?

  It seemed like the internet's first reaction, and we're sort of like talking in large generalities here, but it did seem like the going theory was this was some kind of hit. Rich guy gets murdered in like a parking garage or a hotel or whatever. I was like, eh, it's probably like someone hired a hitman to kill. Then the bullet shell cases come out and you're like, oh, this is suddenly a lot more interesting than I thought. And then it has only kind of continued to become more interesting politically in the in the day since.

• 4:25Speaker 00

  So on December 8th, Luigi Mangione's mom talked to the NYPD and she said that they showed her surveillance photos and she said that might be her son, which.

• 4:38Speaker 00

  They're gonna have an interesting Christmas discussing that decision. And then the next day, Mangione was seen at an Altoona McDonald's. Cops received a tip and arrested him.

• 4:50Speaker 00

  Before, before we saw him and he was caught, what were the vibes? And did anything seem suspicious about it?

• 4:58Ryan Broderick?

  I mean, I would say like, reaction wise, people were already saying he was probably hot. Um, there was a ton of thirst posts about him when he was still masked up. In terms of like, how they were gonna catch him, I mean, the video that I think of is the one of like, the NYPD checking under benches in, in Central Park. Uh, and there was, I think, an initial assumption, particularly from people on Blue Sky, that the NYPD just weren't gonna catch him because they like to pretend like, like cops don't have a multi-billion dollar surveillance state at their fingertips.

• 5:34Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 5:34Ryan Broderick?

  Uh, but then they did catch him. And then there was also like a wave of discourse about like, not giving uh, police any information because they, the NYPD and then the FBI had sort of released a, um, a bounty. And so there was all kinds of people trying to flood the bounty tip lines. It, it, it was like over that weekend, I want to say that people started to realize that this guy was possibly on their side of the class war. And so the internet kinda, you know, did what the internet does.

• 6:04Speaker 00

  We then all learned that, uh, police arrested 26-year-old Luigi Mangione. So I assume that every podcast listener doesn't read or look at any images. They only like things in audio.

• 6:16Ryan Broderick?

  We should not ever make that assumption, but, uh, sure.

• 6:19Speaker 00

  Can you describe for, for the audience that has no idea, I'm sure, what Luigi looks like?

• 6:25Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah, he's a babe. Uh, he's, he's like the moderately handsome man in every American college dorm room. And by all accounts was a nice guy. He, uh, just seemed like, I just, I watched a video this morning of him shotgunning a beer in a backyard. Um, he seemed like, just like, uh, he was also, it was interesting. When he was named and people started to fully find his social media history, he was somehow connected to like every single starboard that I follow. Like every single fandom space and community that I monitor seemed to have some kind of connection to him, which I thought was, at first I thought it was interesting and then I was like, oh no, he's just 26. Like that makes sense, but I think a lot of the intention around him right now are people possibly realizing

• 7:10Ryan Broderick?

  for the first time that like this is just what a normal person in 2024 looks like under the age of 30.

• 7:17Speaker 00

  Prior to him being found, the Blue Skiers assumed his, his, his media diet and ideology would be versus what it actually was.

• 7:28Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah, so they're like,

• 7:33Ryan Broderick?

  I'm sorry, like leftists are not smart and like they don't have any sort of, they have like no object permanence when it comes to this stuff like, or maybe it's because I'm more sensitive to it because I just had to cover so many crimes and atrocities for so long that like, I'm just sort of used to like, maybe like, don't like, take a bet on something and like, you know what it is, but there seemed to be this sort of assumption that he was going to be a leftist terrorist, you know, of some kind. Of course, he wasn't and isn't. He has things that he cares about that are connected to concerns on the left, but he is not, I mean, he likes the Unabomber, according to his Goodreads account, but he is not the Unabomber. He's a very different new thing.

• 8:17Speaker 00

  Go to the chat. Can you summarize his pinned tweet? I think this helps encapsulate.

• 8:22Ryan Broderick?

  Is this the one about Japanese birth rates? No, it's a different one. Uh, so he writes, "Seven years ago, I gave my high school senior speech on this topic." Quote, "Today I will be talking to you about the future, about topics ranging from conscious, artificial intelligence to human immortality. Likely you'll dismiss all this pretty quickly as interesting, but just science fiction." And it's about, he's quote tweeting, quote posting, uh, a chart that like, I've tried to read this chart so many times and I can't make heads or tails of it, but it's essentially like a, um, Like an Elon Musk fanboy, like, "Science fiction is real if we're capitalistic enough" kind of post, and he's agreeing, because that's sort of the kind of guy he was.

• 9:06Speaker 00

  Right.

• 9:07Ryan Broderick?

  I'm not sure if he still is, but most of his internet activity kind of lines up with a LinkedIn hustle bro kind of guy.

• 9:14Speaker 00

  Not a communist manifesto type of guy.

• 9:16Ryan Broderick?

  No, I mean, no.

• 9:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, right. So on June 10th, he was linking to a podcast with Jonathan Haidt. You can listen to our Michael Hobbes episode to learn our feeling towards Haidt's work about the rewiring of kids' brains. The tweet right under there on June 6th was a clip of Peter Thiel. And you can listen to our episode with Taylor Rens about our Peter Thiel feelings. So this was, as you pointed out, he reviewed the Lorax on Letterboxd. He supposedly smoked weed with a user of Red Scare's subreddit.

• 9:51Ryan Broderick?

  Yes.

• 9:51Speaker 00

  He's hitting all of our topics. You just said it, but now that we've gone over the highlights of his internet history, who would you think this guy would be?

• 10:01Ryan Broderick?

  Literally the most normal 26-year-old white American man that exists. I think that there is a predisposition among people who either live in New York or California or use the internet too much, to perhaps forget that the majority of Gen Z men are growing up in a post-Jordan Peterson world. And so they're just, like, this stuff is just normal for them. I don't even think it has any, like, political basis for them. I mean, clearly, they're not picking up the right-wing vibes of it. So, yeah, it was one of those things where I was looking at all this stuff and I was like, "That's weird." And then I was like, "No, it's not. Wait, no, no, this is not weird at all, actually.

• 10:43Ryan Broderick?

  This is exactly what this kind of guy would look like online."

• 10:48Speaker 00

  Do you think if there was a Joe Rogan of the left, this would be his? Media literacy?

• 10:55Ryan Broderick?

  I would go so far as to say, this proves that there can never be a Joe Rogan of the left, because the majority of his audience does not have a political compass as we currently understand it. We are in a brand-new world with this stuff.

• 11:07Speaker 00

  Uh, there's one, you, you said in Garbage Day that there was one detail, uh, going through his internet history, you found interesting. Uh, do you, do you care to explain that?

• 11:17Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah, it's the number 286, which is interesting. I mean, the Altoona, the Altoona McDonald's, he was arrested in, was 286 miles away from the hotel he killed that guy in. His, uh, display picture on X is of Breloom, uh, a number 286 on the Pokédex. There's a whole bunch of other 286 stuff floating around about him. I think it's fun to think about. Um, it's possible it's all a coincidence. It's also possible that this dude was into angel numbers, because that's also a kind of thing that this kind of guy would be into. I wouldn't be surprised.

• 11:50Speaker 00

  Can you explain what 286 is in healthcare?

• 11:54Ryan Broderick?

  It's also, it's a, it's the code for, uh, healthcare insurance denial, and it also lines up with an, an angel number about like, financial prosperity or something.

• 12:02Speaker 00

  It breaks my brain, if, if, if it is not coincidental, that, that the Pokédex is, gets a part, becomes a part of this lore. It, like, it, it...

• 12:15Ryan Broderick?

  I would say-

• 12:15Speaker 00

  I, I make this show, and I, I, I understand all your points, and it, it still kind of floors me.

• 12:20Ryan Broderick?

  I would say that there's almost no other explanation for Breloom being in his display profile picture or whatever, because it is not a popular Pokémon. Uh, it is not, it does also not line up with almost any other internet activity he's doing. Like, he's not like a, he's not a big, I mean, he, he was a gamer in the sense that he was like, in a Discord to play Among Us, but he is not, it, it is so beyond the rest of his digital footprint that it, it feels, I, I'm willing to say, like, getting arrested in an Altoona McDonald's 286 miles away from the crime, that's a bit of a stretch, although he did sit down to eat a hash brown and take his mask off in front of a camera,

• 13:00Ryan Broderick?

  which I think is interesting. Uh, but, the Breloom thing feels just, yeah, like, I, there's no other explanation for that. It's not a popular Pokémon.

• 13:12Ryan Broderick?

  I don't like that Pokemon. I don't use it.

• 13:14Speaker 00

  Um.

• 13:15Ryan Broderick?

  I think its base build is pretty similar to Vile Plume. Or like Victory Bells. Like, why would you even bother?

• 13:21Speaker 00

  I'm not Josh. I can't help. I can't participate in this bit. I'm so sorry. Um. Since his arrest, we've learned that he is from a prominent.

• 13:31Speaker 00

  He went to UPenn. He seemed to love the gym. Um.

• 13:35Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah, he loved like working out and like listening to like audiobooks and yeah, I mean.

• 13:41Speaker 00

  I, I, I think the post, you tell me if this is fake, but there's a picture of him at a football game where, where he's wearing body paint that helps spell penis. I think that's real.

• 13:50Ryan Broderick?

  I, you know, I'm not even sure at this point, but.

• 13:52Speaker 00

  Have you seen it?

• 13:53Ryan Broderick?

  I have not.

• 13:54Speaker 00

  Um, it's in the chat while you're looking at that. Um, along with the internet history, the details that came out to pick, get right, like you're saying. Very normal 26 year old, uh, until he suffered, seemed to have suffered a horrible back injury.

• 14:11Speaker 00

  What do you make of his radicalization?

• 14:16Ryan Broderick?

  Well, there's two ways to process it. One is that his entire digital footprint had no bearing on his politics whatsoever. That he was reading Jonathan Haidt and he was talking about Elon Musk and Tesla and reading all kinds of weird literature on Goodreads. And that just didn't bleed over into his views on healthcare. Possible. Uh, it is very possible that a 26 year old just like does not connect like leftist politics to healthcare reform. The other possibility.

• 14:47Speaker 00

  That's so bleak.

• 14:49Ryan Broderick?

  It's, I mean, it's honestly like, it's a major explanation that I keep coming back to for the overwhelming amount of Gen Z support for Trump and like the interviews I've read of young people who are like, what do you mean Trump is anti-abortion? What do you mean Trump is anti-healthcare? Like, I don't, I, I think there's just a very possibility, like, just because he murdered a guy doesn't mean he's smart. Like, it doesn't mean-

• 15:09Speaker 00

  No, but if he was doing the Pokédex thing, like if-

• 15:13Ryan Broderick?

  No, I-

• 15:14Speaker 00

  The- he might be a savant at trolling.

• 15:17Ryan Broderick?

  I don't even think he's a troll. I actually really don't. I think like, it's very possible that he is just like a very basic guy who like did not understand and had a personal, like, for him, the personal reality was very real, but like he just like didn't connect the dots. Very possible. The other thing that I've kind of come back to and I've written a little bit about, because I find it interesting, and I have to be really careful how I phrase this, because I don't want to sort of like, you know, try to read his mind here. And I'm sure that we're going to spend the next like several years poring through like what, what happened here, especially as the trial starts.

• 15:51Speaker 00

  True Crime was going to run for this for the rest of our lives.

• 15:54Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah, probably. I mean, probably. So, he, for the most part, seemed to have logged off of public internet around June. And that to me is very interesting, because I was talking to another writer friend about this, and I was, in fact, I'll just read it. So I wrote, "Yeah, I have to imagine that finally logging off as a 26-year-old in 2024 would be a very disorienting and perhaps clarifying experience." And that is essentially my one-sentence take on this entire thing. I feel like it's a simple matter of a Zoomer stopped mainlining culture war slop for a month, and suddenly is like,

• 16:36Ryan Broderick?

  "What the fuck is a class war?" Like, that is kind of my read on this whole thing, is that this kid grew up, I mean, let's see, 10 years, so he was 16 when Trump first started running. He has spent the majority of his life, pretty much, living in a culture war. He logs off for the first time, and six months later, kills a CEO. And it's like, that, that, that kind of lines up with what I would think would happen if you were like an angry young man, living on angry young man internet, and you log off for the first time, and you like crawl out of Plato's Cave.

• 17:08Speaker 00

  Two questions. Do you believe in turning points culturally, societally? And if so, do you think this is one?

• 17:16Ryan Broderick?

  So, I had earmarked a video that I didn't have using in Garbage Day, which was shared by a writer, Asana Said, who shared this video of a DJ playing, and behind the DJ was all of the photos of Luigi. Manjoe like behind him and the crowds are like going nuts and Sana Said wrote, "Yeah, we have not even begun to process what we're in the midst of." I understand why you would put that on the internet to get retweets. Like I, I think it's very easy right now to be like, "We are in the midst of a great and, and potent cultural

• 17:56Ryan Broderick?

  shift. Please retweet this post." I, I think that, that is not really how things work.

• 18:05Ryan Broderick?

  It is possible that we have a renewed conversation in this country about healthcare and perhaps about like CEOs, you know, I just, I don't think it works that way. I also to go back to a previous point in this episode, I think it's very possible that a lot, a lot of young people saw this and they have no concept that it has anything to do with leftism at all. Maybe it's my fault because it's like after the election and I've sort of just come through like a ton of postmortem about the 2024 election, but my, my overall take is that like, not even just young people, but like the majority of Americans like don't actually understand what different policies line up on different sides of the political aisle. Like it's like, I just don't think there's any connection for most people.

• 18:49Speaker 00

  Right, right. I think that's

• 18:51Ryan Broderick?

  Like I could see a bunch of people killing CEOs going forward, which you shouldn't do. We're very anti that on this show, but the people doing it have like no idea what politically that means in a larger macro sense.

• 19:05Speaker 00

  True.

• 19:06Ryan Broderick?

  Like, like I could see a bunch of people killing CEOs going forward, which you shouldn't do. We're very anti that on this show, but the people doing it have like no idea what politically that means in a larger macro sense.

• 19:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't know that that matters.

• 19:23Ryan Broderick?

  Well, I'll tell you why it matters. It's, it matters, I think, because if you want to process this politically in any way. Constructively, which I would suggest maybe not. Cause it's a guy who killed a CEO. I would, I would say like.

• 19:39Speaker 00

  And just to be clear, the official position at the show is don't kill CEOs, kill COOs because they are the ones who are secretly, yeah.

• 19:46Ryan Broderick?

  That's right. That's right. Um, no, no, but I, I, I would say like, maybe the DSA like refrains from, from like selling Luigi Mangione merch or something. I, I, I don't.

• 19:58Speaker 00

  Has anyone, has anyone put his face in the, in the Obama like style print yet? Can we be the fir-, can, can that be the first Panic World merch? Can we take Luigi's face?

• 20:09Ryan Broderick?

  Not, not, not this podcast. Um, I did see a hardcore band selling like a really sick like hardcore band shirt that had like the logo of the shell casings on it and stuff.

• 20:20Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah, no, I just, uh, I think, I, I, I, I think he's essentially off limits for any sort of real political revolution in America, but I do see him as becoming kind of an underground folk hero. But at the same time, I've seen other people compare him to like Killdozer and like other kind of, you know, inner, uh, like internet-y folk hero types from the last 30 years and.

• 20:45Speaker 00

  Who, who is?

• 20:46Ryan Broderick?

  Do you know who killed?

• 20:46Speaker 00

  No, I don't.

• 20:47Ryan Broderick?

  Do you know who? See, then that proves my point.

• 20:49Speaker 00

  Who, who's Killdozer?

• 20:51Ryan Broderick?

  Killdozer was a guy who got a bulldozer and went on a rampage. He was a libertarian and he was mad about zoning laws or something. But like, I mean, it's still, I don't know if anybody died or anything, but, uh, yeah.

• 21:01Speaker 00

  If somebody died, they didn't laugh, added out this laugh, but that is a very funny way to decide in a country abundant with guns. That is a very.

• 21:10Ryan Broderick?

  Let me get this right. So, uh, Marvin Heemeyer, uh, yeah, he, uh, he owned a muffler repair shop.

• 21:18Speaker 00

  Fuck, yeah.

• 21:19Ryan Broderick?

  He built a modified bulldozer in Colorado and he called the Killdozer, called the Killdozer and he demolished a bunch of buildings in the town. Um, and it's because he had, as Wikipedia describes it, various grudges against town officials, neighbors of his muffler shop, the local press and varied other citizens.

• 21:40Speaker 00

  Okay. Uh, I did, I didn't know about this. This is the thing about the internet where like, I knew about this at one point and I would, and why would I need to hold on to it? This is, this is fundamentally different in that.

• 21:53Ryan Broderick?

  Hold on, let me, let me just finish the thread here. He demolished the town hall.

• 22:00Ryan Broderick?

  The House of the Former Mayor, a bunch of other buildings, according to Wikipedia, and then he, uh, his, his bulldozer got stuck in a hardware store that he was trying to demolish, and he killed himself. Um, so no one got injured or ki- or killed other than him. Uh, and like, everyone evacuated, and he's kind of become like a folk hero. Now-

• 22:21Speaker 00

  It's better to burn than fade away, you know?

• 22:23Ryan Broderick?

  Now, you say, "This is different," and I would say that you don't know that yet. Because politically, this guy's, yeah, quite incoherent. Um, he had a few things that he cared about, uh, mainly like he wanted to legalize gambling, and like a couple other, sort of like, getting rid of zoning laws type, like libertarian, soft, kind of libertarian, you know, ideas. Um, and then he went on a rampage. We don't know, like, there's, there's literally no, I, I read Luigi's Manifesto, which was not 286 words, it should be worth pointing out, but 200, I think, 66, 61?

• 23:03Speaker 00

  It read like a guy breaking up with a girl on his way to a football game. I'm, I, I don't know that he counted.

• 23:10Ryan Broderick?

  The, the other thing is like, a lot of his political writing on Goodreads was not written by him, it was copy and pasted from Reddit threads about those books. I've not seen, and then the only other sort of political act that you could kind of point to with him right now is, he had this quote, as he was being, like, hauled into jail, like, "The American people are smarter than us," or something, you know? There's a very good chance that this guy had, like, has similarly incoherent political beliefs that led him to do like, an act of high-profile violence. Like, uh, we will know more soon, but as of right now, he could just be Gen Z killdozer. Totally possible.

• 23:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, but it is of an issue that actually, like, I know, I know that there's, I know that-

• 23:53Ryan Broderick?

  Oh, it's relevant?

• 23:54Speaker 00

  I, I know the-

• 23:55Ryan Broderick?

  Hold on, if you want to come to my hometown and talk to, like, men in their 50s about zoning laws, I would say that, like, this guy was tapped way more into the zeitgeist.

• 24:03Speaker 00

  I know that, I know that those guys exist for the-

• 24:06Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah, no, those guys exist, they're called "Every American Man Over the Age of 45." Um, no, I, but I, I get what you're saying, that like, this guy was clearly, he- He, he picked a buzzer way to do this.

• 24:20Speaker 00

  He picked a buzzer way. He picked an issue that makes lots of people's blood boil. Everyone at least secondhand has a story with healthcare that is fucking enraging.

• 24:28Ryan Broderick?

  Of course.

• 24:29Speaker 00

  Um, and I guess a part of me is wondering based off what you're saying. Let's say he doesn't have a clear political ideology, but he becomes a symbol. Everyone is, everyone is against you and they're just lining the CO pocket, the CO pockets. That is quite a unifying class war thing regardless of how incoherent his, his thoughts are.

• 24:50Ryan Broderick?

  I, I'm with you that it is, it is unifying to a degree. Um, whether it will succeed, we don't know yet.

• 24:59Speaker 00

  I'm not, I'm not arguing that it will.

• 25:01Ryan Broderick?

  So Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez put out a statement saying, this is not to say that an act of violence is justified. But I think for anyone who's confused or shocked or appalled, they need to understand that people interpret and feel and experience night claims is an act of violence against them. This is a smart way to do this. Uh, and so in, in garbage day, when I wrote about this, I, I chose a different, um, recent assassination to compare this to. Cause it is possible it goes this way. So, uh, are you familiar with the Shinzo Abe assassination?

• 25:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 25:36Ryan Broderick?

  So for our listeners who aren't a bill, a guy built a contraption, a doohickey, uh, that shot, uh, essentially batteries into Shinzo Abe and killed him. Cause he was mad at his ties to a politically powerful and dangerous religious sect. And everyone was like, yeah, that guy's right. Uh, we should probably remove those people from politics. And Japan, for the most part, seems to have actually kind of made an effort to do so. So there's nothing to say that this doesn't happen here to some degree. I think though that we are just too early in this to know, but it, it would be great. It'd be great if it happened.

• 26:14Speaker 00

  I think the reaction amongst the powers that can react.

• 26:20Speaker 00

  Uh, show fear that they are worried that something like this could happen. And I want to talk about this. Guess where?

• 26:27Ryan Broderick?

  Right after the break.

• 26:28Speaker 00

  Nope, on, on the Patreon for-

• 26:31Ryan Broderick?

  Right after the jump to the Patreon.

• 26:32Speaker 00

  Just the jump for the Patreon. So if you, uh, I don't want to record pickups, I'm going to do this now. So if you want to hear us talking about how the media has handled this and our splintered society, go to patreon.com/panicworld and give us five bucks to keep the lights on. Uh, you can also gift it to people if you're already doing that, but you really love us.

• 26:57Ryan Broderick?

  Amazing.

• 26:58Speaker 00

  And, uh, yeah, there's free ad-free episodes. There's a ton of other bonus content and, um, just, just being real with you, this five dollars, when, when you give it, when you invest it in us, it makes me feel really good in a way that five dollars doesn't normally make me feel. So you just, just know it makes me feel really good that it like actually is worth your money. Patreon.com/panicworld.

• 27:20Ryan Broderick?

  Panic World is a Garbage Day production. It's written and produced by Grant Irving, hosted by myself, with research from the always fantastic Adam Bumis. A huge thanks to Gabby Cash for designing the incredibly deranged art for this show. And a huge thank you to Kat Rijesk, our lovely video editor. And if you'd like to sponsor an episode, you can reach out to Multitude, our wonderful partners, multitude-productions ads. We have a Patreon, which you can find at patreon.com/panicworld. And I'd like to end this episode with an important reminder. Log off and touch grass while you still can.