We were at ICE’s invasion in Minneapolis

After an ICE agent killed Renee Good, Ryan & Grant flew to Minneapolis to cover the resulting protests. This special episode documents their experience with protestors, law enforcement, ICE agents, right-wing YouTubers, and of course... some extreme cold. Show NotesGet 50% off Unlimited premium wireless starting at $15/month at — https://mintmobile.com/courierGet 50% off your first Factor box PLUS free breakfast for 1 year at — https://factormeals.com/panic50off Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I'm finally most comfortable doing this because now I'm looking at you through a screen and not having to see your actual face.

• 0:05Ryan Broderick?

  I like this, I like this better. I like not having to look directly. It feels like I'm safe at home in a zoom window.

• 0:12Speaker 00

  We almost made eye contact once, it was horrible.

• 0:13Ryan Broderick?

  I agree.

• 0:20Ryan Broderick?

  My name is Ryan Broderick. I host the Panic World Podcast and I write the Garbage Day Newsletter and I'm here in Minneapolis, Minnesota for Courier News. We're in front of the federal building. We're ICE officers just deployed. Chemical weapons smelled like tear gas to me.

• 0:33Speaker 02

  Today, I need to hear you to confirm that you are going to fight for freedom. You're gonna fight for justice and we're gonna get justice for Nigga.

• 1:06Ryan Broderick?

  So we are recording from the parking lot of the Whipple Federal Building in Minneapolis. We've been here since Thursday. It's been like basically four days, three, four days of just pretty non-stop unrest. But it hasn't flipped over into any sort of violence, at least on the civilian side. After last night, which we'll get to in a minute, it feels like everyone's a little freaked out and I would include ICE in that, actually. I mean, they spent most of yesterday afternoon barricading one of the entrances to the parking lot of the federal building. So clearly they are a little freaked out and as it stands, there are now more ICE agents

• 1:50Ryan Broderick?

  in Minneapolis than there are actual members of the local law enforcement, according to reports we're seeing online.

• 1:56Speaker 00

  I just talked to one protester I've seen every day we've been here. He's been one of the most active people and he's just described being so tired. Just standing out and it's kind of a war of attrition and I understand it being less people out here right now.

• 2:12Ryan Broderick?

  I think that's probably where to start. This feeling that there isn't a lot that can be done and it's something that we have noticed throughout our time here. There is this sense that the mechanisms of protest that you can use to put pressure on politicians, institutions in a democratic society do not work for ICE. That is really hard to wrap your head around. It's been the biggest struggle for me, I think, in sort of how to write about this and how to think about this.

• 2:52Speaker 00

  We've spoken to a fair number of people upwards of 30 probably at this point since being here and people are trying to be positive, people are trying to put on a brave face, but like it's eerie. We've seen two nights in a row where over a thousand people suddenly appeared and they are furious and they are joyful with one another and it is a diverse crowd and there's children there and dogs there and babies and people are so upset, but they have nowhere to go. State officials care if you're disrupting peace. State officials care if you're pissed at them and are gonna vote them out. ICE wants to fuck you up.

• 3:37Speaker 00

  What do you do? It's really weird.

• 3:39Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah, on the subject of ICE aggression, we also yesterday witnessed the arrest of two protesters. Basically like a woman yesterday, you know, punched a car kinda like that and two vehicles with ICE agents pulled over and jumped her and her friend. And we saw them being taken into the federal building afterwards.

• 4:01Speaker 00

  There's also a lot of gloating. Like, people are yelling at the cars for ICE as they're going in and out, and they are fist bumping, they're waving. I don't think that the crowd chanting at them is demoralizing anyone.

• 4:16Ryan Broderick?

  I've read reports that morale inside of ICE is very bad. I think as psychopathically, you know, violent as these guys are, and untrained as they are,

• 4:30Ryan Broderick?

  I'm not willing to say that they're all just like inhuman monsters. Like, you know, we're not getting a lot of great information from inside the DHS. Reporters are kind of like trying their best. But we know a few things. We know that the standards are very low for the recruitment process. We know that there are connections with Jonathan Ross, the ICE agent accused of gunning down Renee Nicole Good, and the Proud Boys. He was at the very least a fan of the Proud Boys on Facebook, according to reports I've seen. According to a story from the Washington Post this week, the reason why the ICE agent that is accused of murdering Renee Nicole Good had a cellphone out was because they are under intense pressure

• 5:13Ryan Broderick?

  from the Trump administration to be filming as much as they can. So, all over the city this week, they have been raiding different businesses and different people's homes, and they've got cameras out, they've got cameras out here. There's also the assumption for most of the protesters here that all of our faces are being uploaded to some sort of database, likely run by Palantir.

• 5:36Speaker 00

  The protesters have been chanting about Palantir. And this is a very generally offline protest movement, and I find it very interesting that they seem highly aware of Palantir as an entity.

• 5:50Ryan Broderick?

  I think that's an important thing to hit. So, basically, unlike most of the protest movements that I have witnessed over the last 15 years, where you have a heavily online protest movement, activist movement, versus a largely semi-online or even offline establishment, here, that dynamic has completely flipped. So, most of the protesters We've spoken to, they're using Facebook, maybe they're reading the local news. That's great. Go NPR. They're fantastic. Um, there's a bunch of great local outlets here. If they are using apps, we've heard from some protesters that they're on Signal. But I think the thing that I find the most interesting about the, the kind of like activist

• 6:34Ryan Broderick?

  network right now is that we've been finding out about protests and demonstrations by attending one. Like it's, it's literal word of mouth. Like someone gets over a megaphone and is like, meet us here tomorrow at this time. The local law enforcement have effectively let go of the city. There is no opposition here. It is not like 2020 where the local police are, I mean, I assume they're monitoring activist activity, protest activity, but it's not like they are the, the enemy here. And ICE doesn't really seem to give a shit what anyone is doing here, as long as it's not at the, the federal building, because they are racing around the city,

• 7:16Ryan Broderick?

  picking up as many people as possible. And that is an, that is a really hard thing to run defense for. Now, you've talked to people about sort of like how they're organizing the local neighborhood defense networks. I mean, do you get the sense that it's effective?

• 7:30Speaker 00

  I talked to somebody who was on the scene moments after Renee Good was killed. Local activist, got the call, went out there. Let's take a listen to a little bit of that. You said that this, that they're acting very different than any other police or activist group. Can you, can you explain the difference in how they're acting versus how other agencies have acted?

• 7:49Speaker 03

  They're a lot more proactive in attacking people than any police force I've ever seen, you know? It's not the first time I've been shot with chemical weapons. It's not the first time I've been tear gassed. But, um, I, I mean, I, I don't think these guys have any real training. I think they're just like thugs that are given a gun and being like, all right, let loose, boys. And they act like it's a video game. I mean, this motherfucker came up to me and shot me right at point blank range, um, completely unprovoked. I was standing in a snowbank on the sidewalk. Like I was not even taking the street and I, I saw them, you know, tackling people for, you know, basically no reason as well. It doesn't seem like they,

• 8:34Speaker 03

  uh, they oftentimes, um, for example, if you're up against like,

• 8:41Speaker 03

  MPD or LAPD or some force like this, like they'll have commanders giving clear like hand signals for orders. They'll have little snatch squads that are operating like independently of the skirmish line that has, you know, the riot clubs and stuff. These guys are not really behaving like this. They're kind of just like let loose.

• 9:00Speaker 00

  How did you end up on the scene so quickly?

• 9:04Speaker 03

  I was here at Whipple Watch at eight in the morning, uh, taking pictures of their license plates so we could get them out to the neighborhoods and warn them about like incoming ICE kidnappers. Uh, and my homegirl who was planning on joining me texted me, "I can't come. They just shot and killed somebody." And I got in my car and sped over there.

• 9:28Speaker 00

  How are you doing?

• 9:30Speaker 03

  You know, my face is puffy, uh, and my tears are spicy, but I'm all right, man. We gotta pull out all the stops and everybody's gotta fight the federal threat right now.

• 9:41Speaker 00

  I wonder if it crushes your mind. This seems a lot scarier, more dangerous to me. In 2020, you might go to jail for a night. Charges are probably going to be dismissed.

• 9:51Speaker 03

  Make no mistake about it. I respectfully disagree. In 2020, we were out because they killed a man. And now we're out for the same reason. They killed Renee Good. She could have been any one of us. She didn't do anything that every observer here hasn't already done. She could have been all of us. And I think the correct attitude in this moment is that she is all of us and everyone needs to know her name.

• 10:16Speaker 00

  Day one of it, um, dramatically different now than every other day, uh, in interesting ways.

• 10:36Ryan Broderick?

  Uh, we've spotted several instances of ICE agents laughing at the crowd, filming them. There's a lot of chaos in the ground right now.

• 10:49Speaker 00

  You said you spoke to a lot of teachers?

• 10:51Ryan Broderick?

  Day one was a lot of teachers. Like, I remember this one scene where I heard this woman go, "Oh, my God, you teach at the Bell School?" "I teach at the Bell School." And it felt very community-based. To paraphrase a post I saw online, it was like, "It's cold, the normies are out here, we're doing our best." And that, I think, was the best way to describe the first day. Of course, there were also a lot of instances of ICE agents shooting us with pepper spray balls, but it was largely kumbaya, I would say, on Thursday.

• 11:20Speaker 00

  Now, I'm like, that was so significantly less than the number of pepper balls we ended up getting shot by.

• 11:25Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah, that was nice.

• 11:26Speaker 00

  I was really surprised that day. It was first or second time people had protested was the vibe I got. I talked to one mom who was a conservative, and the first protest she went to was a No Kings, and then she was out in front of ICE. And I also talked to a guy who was loaded up on waters and snacks. And you can just hear from both of them, they don't know what to do, and this is the best thing they could think of. Let's take a listen to just, like, the baseline of normality. Not the people you'd expect in front of a federal building, which is like a kind of high-end protest tactic. How many protests have you gone to in your life?

• 12:08Speaker 04

  This is it.

• 12:09Speaker 00

  This is it. And you knew to bring food and water?

• 12:12Speaker 04

  Absolutely.

• 12:13Speaker 00

  This is your second protest ever?

• 12:14Speaker 04

  Yes. Yeah, I went to the No Kings protest. This is kind of my first protest where I'm yelling at.

• 12:22Speaker 02

  I was on my way to go grocery shopping with my sister when we noticed this shit from on the train.

• 12:28Speaker 00

  So you sat out the whole first Trump administration?

• 12:30Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 12:31Speaker 00

  What was different this time around?

• 12:32Speaker 04

  Okay, a little embarrassed, but I'm like a former Republican-ish.

• 12:38Speaker 00

  Did you vote for Trump the first time around?

• 12:40Speaker 04

  No, but I didn't vote. People need food, they need water, especially, you know, with the tear gas.

• 12:46Speaker 02

  And now, look at this bullshit.

• 12:48Ryan Broderick?

  After the federal building, the sun started to go down, and we made our way to the south side of the city, near where Good was murdered. When we got there, it was starting to rain, and there weren't a lot of people. We actually didn't have super high expectations. Organizing in a nonwalkable city that is as large as this area, I really wasn't sure what to expect.

• 13:21Ryan Broderick?

  Contrary to what you may be seeing on right-wing news channels and right-wing YouTube channels right now, there are no Antifa super soldiers here. We did see one guy, though, handing out coffee. You know, kind of dangerous, I guess.

• 13:35Speaker 00

  This is the most organized protest and family-friendly protest after dark I've ever seen.

• 13:49Ryan Broderick?

  I think, for the most part, you know, there's obviously an insane amount of anger, but the vibes were good on Thursday night. Even with the horrible weather conditions, it felt the right kind of cathartic. But, and this will become a theme throughout our time here, it was extremely noticeable that there was no opposition to the protest. And I don't mean in the sense that, like, "Oh, like, the cops didn't come and shut it down." I mean, like, there was nowhere to put that anger. And this has been an existential problem. ICE is here, in the federal building, where they're driving around in unmarked cars, scooping people up. And they don't really care how mad people are. They don't give a shit. And

• 14:34Ryan Broderick?

  so it is hard not to sort of be in these mass actions here and have this creeping sense of dread that this is for nothing. And I don't want to be callous about that.

• 14:45Speaker 00

  Let me just slow that down for a second there. That's actually when we had probably the most impactful conversation I think we had this weekend, where he only wanted to talk to us off the record, but we talked to somebody who had been a long-term activist, and he admitted that this is scarier than what they were up against before, that the unpredictability that we've been describing has affected him. And he said something that, like, is going to really stay with me, which was...

• 15:16Speaker 00

  In 2020, when I was upset at the cops, I could throw a brick hypothetically at a cop car and they could get the message. Uh, we like, there was somewhere to direct it to. And he said, I can't go to Mar-a-Lago. And like, coming to ICE is just like, if you get too grouchy, like, you're gonna get your ass kicked.

• 15:36Ryan Broderick?

  But also, they're not gonna see it. There may have been undercover ICE agents at the protests we've been to beyond the federal building here, but I didn't see any. There may have been feds, I don't know. I, it was dark and there was freezing rain. It is really hard not to overstate this. Like, it is a machine that doesn't care.

• 15:54Speaker 00

  But then you had this crowd that is only gaining in size. It only gains momentum. They're only getting more upset and more agitated as you're moving through. But then they did a really wise thing, and they ended the march at the neighborhood on the block where she was killed, where you then see, I guess it's a barricade, but it looks really like a memorial.

• 16:18Ryan Broderick?

  It's a, it's a memorial and an encampment, and there's like a soup line there, and we got hot cocoa. It is not, it is not like an autonomous zone. It's not like a CHAZ or something.

• 16:28Speaker 00

  It's a block party.

• 16:29Ryan Broderick?

  It's, it's, there's fire pits, and it's like, it's sad and it's somber. It's not what the right-wing media is showing it to be.

• 16:36Speaker 00

  And that just took, every, everyone then was like, hey, we're in this neighborhood now. We're gonna be respectful. We're gonna show the people who are in this neighborhood that we're mourning with them. And that just kinda settled everything down. And then we saw a house that said, uh, "Free toilet."

• 16:55Ryan Broderick?

  Which we did, uh, toilet here, or free toilet, which we did use, and that was a very nice guy.

• 17:00Speaker 00

  So that's the vibe, like, come walk into my house. Turned out that that was Renee's new neighbor who was just moving in. He's still had things in boxes. And, uh, he was nice enough not only to let us use his bathroom, but, uh, also give me a couple of minutes of his time.

• 17:17Speaker 05

  I'm Evan.

• 17:19Speaker 00

  Where, outside of your house, you're very benevolently letting people use your restroom?

• 17:23Speaker 05

  Yeah. People gotta go.

• 17:26Speaker 00

  When did I start showing up in this neighborhood?

• 17:28Speaker 05

  I mean, so I don't like, we're just moving in, so I've been here.

• 17:30Speaker 00

  You're still just moving in?

• 17:32Speaker 05

  Yeah, still just moving in. So like, but I've heard people honking, um, you know, like all through November, whenever I was here, I would usually like once or twice a day, I would hear, hear events going by.

• 17:43Speaker 00

  Was it escalating in the days ahead of the shooting?

• 17:46Speaker 05

  No, I mean, like, I didn't see anything, uh, until the day I like heard a bunch of honks, uh, saw ice was outside, uh, came out for a bit, and then I like went back and tried to take a call and, and then, uh, heard the shots and came back out again.

• 18:01Speaker 00

  This is your introduction to the neighborhood. How are you feeling?

• 18:04Speaker 05

  I mean, I think I've met a lot of really lovely people, a lot of very nice people come and use my bathroom. It's been not the best way to meet neighbors, but like, it's been nice to connect with everybody and like everyone out on the street, uh, who puts, uh, doing all of this stuff have just been really lovely. If anything, this has made me feel more positive about living here. I mean, like, there's already the issue of the occupation in LA, right? It kind of feels like everywhere. Um, did we use the bathroom?

• 18:32Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 18:33Speaker 05

  Is he right there on the sign?

• 18:37Ryan Broderick?

  I think we can all relate. It's the new year. You want to get ready for the summer. You want to eat better, but you have zero time and you have zero energy and you're stuck. You just want something quick and fresh. Well, I have a solution for you. Factor doesn't make you do any meal prep or follow any recipes. It removes the entire problem. Two minutes, real food, done. Factor is made by real chefs. It's designed by actual dietitians and it's delivered to your door. You make it in two minutes and voila. Lean proteins, colorful vegetables, whole food ingredients. It's the stuff that you would make if you had the time. No refined sugars, no artificial sweeteners. It's good, healthy stuff. Signing up is super easy. You pick your goals that you want to hit. You pick out some meals that fit those goals

• 19:22Ryan Broderick?

  and it shows up your doorstep. It's great. Always fresh, never frozen and ready in two minutes, no prep, no cleanup. I mean, this just sounds like something I really need because. I'm not doing so well with my January New Year's resolutions. You know what I mean? I recently tried to do like a big fresh food grocery shop and ended up with a whole lot of food that I just didn't have the energy to make. So this sounds perfect for me and probably perfect for you too. You can head to factormeals.com/panic50off, P-A-N-I-C-5-0-O-F-F. And you can use the code PANIC50OFF to get 50% off, wow, that's pretty good, your first Factor box.

• 20:07Ryan Broderick?

  Plus you get free breakfast for one year, which is actually great because I'm usually too tired in the mornings to make breakfast too. So I didn't even know that. That's great. Offer is only valid for new Factor customers with code and qualifying auto-renewing subscription purchase. Make healthier eating easier with Factor.

• 20:26Speaker 00

  Hi, it's me, Grant, your friend from your headphones. As you can tell, I'm not home right now, which is very creepy that you actually know that if you think about it. But here's more information about me. I'm meeting my goddaughter for the first time and she doesn't need a premium wireless service. But when she does, I will be recommending Mint Mobile. And now I'm recommending Mint Mobile to you. Mint Mobile's end of year sale is still going on, but only to the end of the month. Cut out big wireless bloated plans and unnecessary monthly charges with 50% off for three, six, or 12 months of unlimited. All plans come with high-speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network.

• 21:08Speaker 00

  5G, we love it here at Panic World. Use your own phone with any Mint Mobile plan and bring your phone number along with all your existing contacts and all your pictures of a Sonic shoe that's been inflated. This January, quit overspending on wireless with 50% off unlimited premium wireless. Plans start as little as $15 a month at mintmobile.com/courier. That's mintmobile.com/courier. Limited time offer, upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months, or $180 for 12 months. Plans required 15-month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only. 50GB may slow when network is busy. Capable device required. Available speed and coverage varies. See mintmobile.com.

• 21:55Ryan Broderick?

  We headed back out to the federal building on our second day here on Friday. And it was aggressive from the start.

• 22:07Speaker 06

  Come on, you fucking cowards! Come on! Stop hiding in your fucking cars, warming up! Where are you from, the south, huh? That's where you're from? You come to places you don't belong, where the people do not want you here! You are traitors to the Constitution! You are traitors to America!

• 22:28Ryan Broderick?

  ICE was way more aggressive. And the crowd was different. The crowd was younger. By that point, a lot of the protesters that we were talking to were from out of town. There was a whole contingent of protesters that sort of travel around and follow ICE action. And there were multiple members of that cohort there. And ICE was very, very trigger happy with the pepper spray balls and tear gas and flashbangs. And they like to just spray their little pepper spray ball gun at you. It's a paintball gun and they shoot it at your feet usually. And the ball breaks and it basically just distributes pepper spray into the air. ICE agents are fucking stupid and so they don't realize that like shooting pepper spray

• 23:11Ryan Broderick?

  at the feet of someone directly in front of them is gonna make them sick too. So they're coughing too. It's, I mean, you really, I can't believe how stupid these guys are.

• 23:20Speaker 00

  It kinda seemed to work on like 25 to 30 minute intervals, like, you know, that's an estimate, where you're on a two-way street, there's a yellow line. The day before, it was when you went up to the gate.

• 23:34Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah.

• 23:34Speaker 00

  ICE would start to shoot or push you back. On Friday, they decided that crossing the yellow line was too far. So protesters were out there, they'd get a little agitated, and then after 20 minutes they'd get a little bit emboldened, they'd get closer to the line. And then the ICE agents would just shoot off a couple of pepper balls and everyone would back up. And it had this odd rhythm.

• 24:03Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah.

• 24:04Speaker 00

  And I don't want to make this sound like...

• 24:10Speaker 00

  Soros was flying Antifa from everywhere to Coala, so Minneapolis.

• 24:14Ryan Broderick?

  If he was, they love ska music because there was a guy there with a loudspeaker who was playing Streetlight Manifesto, and we talked about it briefly. So, George Soros, if you're sending Antifa super soldiers in to cities across America to fight ICE, you should start playing Streetlight's newer albums, too.

• 24:35Speaker 00

  Ryan's had a really long couple of days, so I'm not going to make fun of that. My point being that it was mostly local teenagers or college students is what I would say.

• 24:46Ryan Broderick?

  Also, we should say that schools are closed here. So, they closed the schools on Thursday because ICE kept swarming the schools.

• 24:54Speaker 00

  Ryan, you actually, before we get there, while we're speaking about the Antifa super soldier who had an anti-mega cape and a screen and was a very friendly guy, he, not recorded, not off the record, said something to you about his travels and going to ICE facilities in San Diego. Do you want to talk about that?

• 25:18Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah, he said something really interesting, where basically, when you're arrested by ICE, you're given what's called an A number. It's sort of your ID number inside of the ICE facility. And he travels down to an ICE detention center in San Diego where prisoners will yell their A number out the window, hoping someone hears. And the reason they're doing that is because when ICE detains you, you can't call anyone without money in your commissary fund. But you can't get money put into your commissary fund without someone on the outside knowing your A number, and ICE will not give that number to people on the outside. So what that results in is people who are trapped there with no ability to communicate

• 26:00Ryan Broderick?

  with the outside world. And so there are basically volunteers that go and try to get the A numbers of anyone they can, just so they can put money in it so those people can make a call. It's a nightmare. The other thing I want to touch on here is that on our second day here, on Friday, was when we basically saw the closest link that we're probably going to get between ICE agents, the Department of Homeland Security. And the right-wing media.

• 26:37Speaker 02

  Who are you with?

• 26:40Speaker 02

  Why aren't you in uniform?

• 26:46Speaker 02

  Who is he with? Is he with you? Is he with you? Why isn't he in uniform?

• 26:52Speaker 02

  Who is he?

• 26:55Speaker 02

  Why are you turned around? Who are you with? Why aren't you in uniform? Who are you? Who are you?

• 27:05Speaker 02

  Who are you with? What are you shooting this for? Where's that content going?

• 27:11Ryan Broderick?

  I was able to grab footage of at one point, you know, they're pushing us, as Grant said, back behind the yellow line dividing the street. A pro-Trump content creator's there. He's screaming, "Go Trump, go Trump." He then fist bumps the ICE agent, and they let him sort of do whatever he wants. I thought that was pretty egregious. And then, a few hours later,

• 27:33Ryan Broderick?

  a woman hits the window of a car with ICE agents in it. They all jump out, tackle her to the ground, arrest her. Jumping out with them, with a big grin on his face, was a reporter I've since learned is Matt Finn, a local Fox reporter here, who was doing a little ride-along with ICE yesterday. And he had a big smirk on his face as he filmed the agents tackling her to the ground. He then posted on Twitter that it was, quote-unquote, "intense video." The last thing I'll say here is, a couple hours after that, a gang of far-right YouTubers showed up, led by the January 6th insurrectionist Jake Lang.

• 28:16Ryan Broderick?

  He was in tow with someone who kind of was dressed up like a Yu-Gi-Oh villain, and then like a littler, uglier guy wearing the same outfit. And they kind of paraded around for several hours, live-streaming and, you know, fighting with people. And then, once again, ICE was more than happy to protect them. Although it didn't stop the little, uglier one from getting slapped in the face by a woman, and then he started crying.

• 28:45Speaker 00

  I think we, two things. If you're worried, the window was fine.

• 28:51Ryan Broderick?

  Of the car, yes.

• 28:53Speaker 00

  Uh, driving in Philadelphia, traffic does more damage to your car each time than the window. I know some of you are very worried about property. And I just want you to know that, that the car has not been harmed. Um, the potholes here are worse. We should break down, it wa- it wa- an interesting thing happened with the, um...

• 29:16Speaker 00

  What word do I want to describe them? Um, the content creators.

• 29:20Ryan Broderick?

  Hardcore anime fan energy, like, they looked like...

• 29:26Speaker 00

  Oh my god.

• 29:27Ryan Broderick?

  They, they were very embarrassing. Um, they were wearing like, very bad suits that were very shiny. And they were wearing like, big long pea coats. And they, they, they had that, I, that unmistakable whiff of like, Someone who learned how to socialize by watching too much anime? You know what I mean?

• 29:48Speaker 00

  I, so, so when they first came, the crowd got very upset. And, uh, people were getting in each other's faces, uh, they brought their little flags and they were being tugged on. And, um, that is when, uh, ICE agents went ham. And, um,

• 30:10Speaker 00

  Uh, Ryan will be coughing tear gas for the next week.

• 30:27Speaker 00

  Right behind me are a group of far-right YouTubers that have showed up to the federal building here in Minneapolis, Uh, waving American flags and provoking the crowd. Immediately, I started running defense for these guys, Shooting pepper spray, tear gas, flashbangs at the crowd. Thankfully, their sound system that they showed up with has run out of juice. Uh, before this, they were playing the song "Ice Ice Baby" over and over again and picking fights with people here. This has been going on for at least 20 minutes now. Uh, and it's, it's absolute pandemonium. Apparently, they've done this every day this week, uh, usually around this time.

• 31:14Speaker 06

  Hey guys, no political violence. It's not worth it. Save it for the enemy. Don't waste your... Hey, don't catch a charge on these little bitches!

• 31:22Speaker 00

  Let me tell ya, I don't think these ICE agents have been trained very good, because they released something that they didn't know what it was going to do, and then a protester had to help them stomp out a fire that they started.

• 31:35Ryan Broderick?

  From my understanding, they launched a flashbang incorrectly. Cause I could hear them kind of talking about like, "I didn't know it would do that."

• 31:45Speaker 00

  It seemed to just be kinda like, an improv game, because protester first got there, people are getting in their faces, and they're like, "Alright, we're gonna do something." They're following, and they're releasing a shit ton of tear gas. There, at one point, like, there's video, there was a cloud of tear gas that you couldn't see through. Like, really was pushing people back, was really heavy. And then it just kinda like, they got bored of that, and then, and like, also the content creators, like, everyone just kinda like, it's like, it's like when you're at a hardcore show, and the first song, the mosh pit's fucking crazy. And if you withstand that song, then it just kinda like, finds a rhythm. Like, then the YouTubers were just there, for like, another hour and a half.

• 32:29Ryan Broderick?

  Really embarrassing.

• 32:29Speaker 00

  And like, people were just kinda chatting, and like, the ICE agents decided like, "No longer their problem."

• 32:36Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah.

• 32:36Speaker 00

  Eventually, people petered themselves out, that they just ended up like, arguing about shit. They've watched debate videos, and they're like, "Debate me, bro," but don't actually like, really know what to say, or how to talk to each other. Um, here's a short example.

• 32:51Speaker 02

  ICE baby! Our country will not fall to you violent migrants! Our country is going to stand for another 250 years of beautiful freedom!

• 33:05Speaker 02

  Goddamn ass motherfucker! Beautiful freedom! Fucking racist shit! Tim is your retard!

• 33:12Ryan Broderick?

  So on Friday night, we were at a protest that probably has the, you know, the closest it's come so far to like, an actual riot.

• 33:27Ryan Broderick?

  I'm here in downtown Minneapolis. There's easily close to 1,000 people gathering in the street right now. They've shut down the whole block and they plan to stay here and make as much noise as they can to disrupt ICE and to put pressure on the hotel to give up their contract with the Department of Homeland Security.

• 33:46Ryan Broderick?

  There's noise protest scheduled outside of the hotel that activists here believe may be housing ICE agents, but they're not sure. So after making a bunch of noise in front of that hotel, we then marched around the city making noise at other hotels. And as we did that, protesters, especially younger ones, who started to kind of show up later in the night. It is a Friday night and people are angry, rightfully so. They were trying to get into the hotels that people were making noise in front of. And then the organizers, who were a couple of different like progressive and leftist orgs, kind of just stopped at 9:00.

• 34:28Ryan Broderick?

  But unlike the march in the rain that ended at the memorial for Renee Nicole Good, this one didn't really have an end and it became chaos really quickly. I was pressed up with the protesters as they were trying to break into the doors of this Hilton in downtown Minneapolis that they believe ICE agents are in. And it got really, really hairy. People don't know where to go. They were marching around, they were going to what they hope is the hotel, but there's no actual sign of ICE agents. They could have come to the ICE facility, but that would have been pretty dangerous. So they've nowhere to direct that anger.

• 35:11Ryan Broderick?

  So now they're just banging on a hotel because like where are, how are they supposed to express this? And the only place to do it is this building that is symbolic. And when people started to get in...

• 35:30Speaker 00

  I was thinking, you know, if there are actual ICE agents in there, they don't like, and these were- They're gonna shoot you. There were, these were kids. These were, these were, these were like- Some as young as like thirteen, fourteen. Yeah, who were just like wild and out. And like, yeah, if you bang on the hotel doors of ICE agents, like, they don't have weapons. There's, there's not a plan here. Like, it, it would go really bad. I understand the grief, but like, there's nowhere to put it, and it feeds into propaganda of like, "Look at these wild leftists. The right have created a fiction", and then are imposing it on a town, and then it makes chaos of reality, is what I'm stuck with.

• 36:14Speaker 00

  And I don't say this with any judgment to anyone who is out there, but just if your neighborhood is invaded, and you are scared, and you don't have anywhere to put that or direct it, I don't know what comes of that.

• 36:27Ryan Broderick?

  Here's a great example of how powerless I think this community is right now in the face of this, and I hate to say this. Where we're sitting, a couple hours ago, Ilhan Omar and a few other local politicians tried to get into this building, and ICE pulled weapons on them. They pulled tear gas and they pulled pepper spray on them, and they didn't do, they didn't use it, but there's a standoff, and they were not allowed in the building. We are i- in a city in the midst of a standoff, and it is under siege by ICE agents, and it is, it is effectively just protesters versus ICE agents now. We don't know what's about to happen.

• 37:02Speaker 07

  We have been visited by state sanctioned violence that is currently occupying, terrorizing our neighborhoods. This is not okay. This is not the America we want to live in, and this is not the life we want for ourselves and for our neighbors.

• 37:22Speaker 02

  We are here today to demand an end to the blatant attacks on black and brown citizens.

• 37:31Ryan Broderick?

  We are trudging through the snow of Powderhorn Park.

• 37:37Speaker 00

  It's really cold today.

• 37:38Ryan Broderick?

  I like to pride myself from being from the Northeast.

• 37:44Ryan Broderick?

  This is different. This is different, and I take it back. I take it all back. So when we were parking to come here, we got stopped by another car. And they asked if we were with ICE. And I said, no, we're journalists. And they said, oh, a lot of the rental cars are former ICE vehicles. So we had Florida plates. They figured we might be with ICE. And I told them, you know, we're not. And then he got on his Walkitalk app on his phone. And he said, hey, the license plate I just reported for being possible ICE activity is actually journalists. So kind of another interesting detail of the kind of information environment that we're in right now

• 38:27Ryan Broderick?

  is that was a guy in his 50s, 60s, part of some sort of decentralized neighborhood watch system where they're flagging license plates possibly belonging to ICE. Fascinating.

• 38:40Speaker 08

  You sound horrible.

• 38:41Speaker 09

  Oh, I feel worse. This flu is not playing around.

• 38:44Speaker 08

  Dad, you promised you'd be in my band. And it's showtime. Then it's Dayquil Intense Flu time.

• 38:50Speaker 10

  For fast and powerful relief of your flu symptoms, try Dayquil Intense Flu.

• 38:55Speaker 06

  Hit it.

• 38:55Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 38:57Speaker 10

  Dayquil Intense Flu. The fast-acting daytime coughing, aching, aching, aching fever power through your flu medicine. Use is directed, keep out of reach of children.

• 39:09Ryan Broderick?

  I've seen estimates of 5,000 people gathered in Powderhorn Park near the neighborhood where Renee Nicole Brown was gunned down. And we spent about two to three hours following activists, leftists, progressive groups. They were marching, they were chanting, but now I don't really know what happens.

• 39:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 39:30Speaker 00

  I hate everything I'm about to say, and I hope I'm wrong about all of this. It's really disheartening. I overheard people say, "Look how many people are here. This is gonna get the media's attention, and that's gonna do something." I just wish that things worked that way. In our very brief period of time here, I've seen it become more conspiratorial, more upset on the ground, and when people are being directly confronted, or going to a place like this ICE facility, and then a crowd of people that just don't know what to do. Meanwhile, the ICE raids today in neighborhoods has seemed to be brutal,

• 40:14Speaker 00

  and just picking up. I don't know how things don't get worse.

• 40:19Ryan Broderick?

  I basically have two major questions about what's happening here. Because I think that they are the most important for answering for the next city this happens to. The first one is, how does the far-right media machine interface with ICE? Now we know. ICE agents are filming their arrests, they're filming their invasions of people's homes and businesses, and there are far-right YouTubers and influencers that flock to the scene of ICE-based violence, and they will run oppo for the Trump media machine. We've also seen that Fox and Fox affiliates are doing ride-alongs with ICE agents, and they are more than happy to frame any kind of opposition to ICE as liberal derangement.

• 41:01Ryan Broderick?

  And then the other half of that coin is, well, what do you do about that? And the answer is, at least here in Minneapolis, I think the answers that are most useful for people in other cities wondering about this is, if you are using technology of any kind to network, it has to be completely off-public feeds. We've heard about Signal, we've heard about peer-to-peer Facebook sharing, like in Facebook DMs or something. We've also heard people saying that they're just hearing about it, like, out loud, like, IRL. And I think that is the most important takeaway for me from being here. Trump...

• 41:40Ryan Broderick?

  And the MAGA movement and the Department of Homeland Security and ICE have thoroughly dominated mainstream public social feeds. And so if you want to oppose what they're doing, it is not worth the time or energy to fight against their algorithms in the case of X. Or give them the ability to surveil and counteract what you're doing. So the term, by the way, for this is dark social. So if you are listening to this and you're saying, wow, like this could happen to me, what am I supposed to do? You have to talk to your neighbors in real life. And if you want to use technology, it has to be completely dark social. Text messages, back channel apps. I wish I had more there.

• 42:20Speaker 00

  I think I'm leaving feeling like we're all on our own. Your neighborhood is on its own. Calling balls and strikes, raising a flag, there's no one to answer the call right now because that call is the federal government. And at least here in Minnesota, the state seems to be saying like, anything we seem to do seems to just create more problems or we're about to like start the civil war. And so it seems completely handoff, leaving people only in their own hands to communicate and to literally blow a whistle. I don't know what to do about that. This Trump too, has given their Proud Boys something to do and focus on.

• 43:02Speaker 00

  That sucks up all the oxygen and all the attention and it just feeds things in for themselves. And I don't know how that, how that technology or messaging elsewhere is possible to combat, but all those ideas scare me.

• 43:17Ryan Broderick?

  I think what you and I have sort of been talking about for the last three days is that there's like a missing link. The Trump administration has weaponized the federal government. And there is really without, I mean, it's great to see like Ilhan Omar out here. And it's great that Governor Tim Walz and Mayor Fry are saying how mad they are.

• 43:41Speaker 05

  To ICE, get the fuck out of Minneapolis.

• 43:46Ryan Broderick?

  But there's no way for that to mean anything. There's no way to put pressure on a regime as centralized as the Trump administration. It's that that's how it works. So like, you can scream and yell and you can drive around until they throw you in the back of a van and, you know, file federal charges at you. You could do all of that, but that's not going to make its way up to Trump. Like it's it's it's and it's definitely not going to change the mind of like hardcore fascist ideologues like Bavino. It has been a very constructive initial response. But even at the march today, you know, like the speakers are saying like, this isn't it. Like, we gotta keep going.

• 44:29Ryan Broderick?

  That puts things into like really scary territory because now you're talking about like, okay, who can last longer? The entire machinery of the federal government? Or like decentralized networks of neighbors driving around trying to protect each other?

• 44:45Speaker 00

  I think our takeaway, and I think this would have been really hard to glean if we weren't on the ground, is that this is is an appreciation for how much we're in uncharted territory, at least in America, where there isn't a local elected official to annoy or a police chief to get to resign. The problem is just is is just much bigger and it's and it's hyper local and then it's every state's issue simultaneously. And that is confounding.

• 45:15Ryan Broderick?

  I'll I'll end with this. So there's there's a video that was filmed here yesterday of a doordasher, like a gig worker, who was trying, who was basically trying to run from ICE.

• 45:29Speaker 11

  That's fine, but I don't want to open the door if they don't have a warrant. Because this was my doordash lady. I don't even know the lady. She just ran to my house.

• 45:38Ryan Broderick?

  Who were trying to pick her up as she was. Dropping off a delivery. And the video was filmed by the woman who owned the house. And it was a standoff where she called the police, the police said, if you don't give up the DoorDash her, you are sheltering a fugitive. And luckily ICE eventually backed down because they do back down, they will back down. They are, by all accounts, like completely illiterate, overweight cowards who seemingly are all like sick with COVID. So like, it's not hard to get these guys to back down if you can stand doing it and you have the privilege and the means to do it.

• 46:22Ryan Broderick?

  And so what I want to leave anyone who's watching this with, until this is over, you as an individual have to think, if I was that person, if someone knocked on my door and they said, "Help me," you have to make the decision for yourself, what would you do in that situation? And that is a very powerful, heavy thing, but right now ICE will arrest you if you film them. They can, they can charge you with terrorism. They are becoming more and more aggressive and more and more emboldened, but like I said, they are illiterate slobs who do not know how to use their own guns or weapons. They have tear gassed themselves in front of us several times since we got here. And they're lazy and they're cowardly and they're miserable because they know that

• 47:07Ryan Broderick?

  everybody hates them. And so as long as you are willing to put that pressure on them and to, and to, and to dig in, I do think small victories are possible. That's as far as I've gotten with that line of thinking.

• 47:23Ryan Broderick?

  And so, you know, we'll be keeping an eye on Minnesota and everywhere else.

• 47:30Ryan Broderick?

  As this develops.

• 47:31Speaker 00

  And in between doing things like this, we'll be doing episodes on Goonin', we promise. We will not lose sight of what we believe in and what gives us hope and inspiration. Talking about weirdos on the internet, it's still sacred to us.

• 47:48Ryan Broderick?

  I could be at home talking about Sonic the Hedgehog. But instead, because we live in a fascist dictatorship, I'm here. But I do want to say, and I want to reiterate, like, we are not here to like parachute in and explain Minnesota to people. There is a great. Great local news landscape here. We've met a few of them and they are doing great work and you should follow them. And we can link in our show notes to some of the sources that we've been using to basically follow the activity here. And I also want to thank Courier News for partnering with us on this trip. We're not a national news organization. Trips like this used to be just like what journalism was, but now they're like a rare luxury.

• 48:32Ryan Broderick?

  And being able to like get the funds together in time to get here, to be here for the last three days. It would have, it would have been impossible without Courier. So if you want to support Courier, you should go to their merch store and buy a t-shirt. They're pretty good t-shirts.

• 48:47Speaker 00

  Probably ours.

• 48:48Ryan Broderick?

  I have two of them. We also have a Panic World t-shirt now. You buy that, it supports Courier. You want to support us? Head on over to our Patreon, throw five bucks in. We're going to be uploading additional materials from the trip to Patreon. We might do a kind of a recap episode later this week on there, just you know, a couple of days later digesting what happened. And if you want to follow more incremental reporting about ICE and the right wing media machine, you can read my newsletter, garbage day dot email. I'll be covering this for the foreseeable future over there as well. And yeah, I just want to thank the people of Minneapolis who have been very, very kind to us. Minnesota nice gets thrown around a lot, but like people here are tremendously kind and this is a wonderful city.

• 49:31Ryan Broderick?

  It's a, I think a beautiful city, actually. I am sad and I am angry that so much of the 21st century has been based around the federal government or local law enforcement trying to make this place miserable for its citizens. It's absolutely insane.

• 49:51Speaker 00

  I'm so tired of seeing places. I'm like, this place could be delightful.

• 49:54Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah.

• 49:55Speaker 00

  If I was here under any other circumstance. If you have any questions you want us to answer, anything in this kind of reporting? We'll see if we do it in the future. Hopefully we do. Hopefully we won't have to, but if we do, let us know what you'd like from it. This is all new terrain and we really do appreciate you. And I appreciate Courier so much. I'm not going to say something sarcastic about them this one time.

• 50:16Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah, like I said, we're a really small team. So the fact that we had several people back in New York, sort of tracking our movements, doing security for us, this would not be possible without them. So. And for you listeners, the ones who have reached out, like, thank you. Don't follow Grant on Instagram. It's not worth it. You can follow me on Instagram, but my Instagram is bad, too.

• 50:39Speaker 00

  Blue Sky, maybe?

• 50:40Ryan Broderick?

  Blue Sky, definitely. I'm on Blue Sky. Yeah. Thank you, guys.

• 50:44Speaker 00

  Bye, guys. Thanks.

• 50:47Ryan Broderick?

  Panic World is a production of Courier. It is written and produced by Grant Irving and hosted by me, Ryan Broderick. Josh Fielstedt is our production coordinator and our amazing researcher is Adam Bumis. From Courier is Shane Verkest, who edits our video episodes, along with our producer, Devin Maroney, and National Managing Director and Executive Producer, Kevin Dreyfus. R.C. DeMezzo is their VP of Brand and Social. Charlotte Robinson is their Deputy Director of Brand and Social. Mary Ann Couga is their Director of Marketing, and Tracy Kaplan is the Senior Vice President of Sales and Distribution. If you want to sponsor the show or give us products to sell, she's the one to talk to. You can email her at [email protected].

• 51:28Ryan Broderick?

  Lastly, here's my advice for you. Chill out and touch grass while you still can. Should we do a tight five on your feelings about Minnesota bagels?

• 51:40Speaker 00

  I don't...

• 51:43Speaker 00

  I've been astounded at how friendly the Minnesotans have been broadly, especially in such a not-friendly way to be meeting people.

• 51:56Ryan Broderick?

  Yeah.

• 51:58Speaker 00

  We're staying at a hotel in a college town off-season. I cannot judge, and I will not judge, I will do them the kindness of not judging any of the food we've eaten, all of which has been garbage. But I'm sure that if we were actually doing a trip for fun, there's great food here.